Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 October 12

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October 12

The biography on Thomas Sneddon Jr. did not mention his religion. Catholic?

I WISH THAT THE BIO ON THOMAS SNEDDON JR WOULD MENTION HIS RELIGION. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.27.122.120 (talk) 23:59, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

The place to discuss article content is the article's talk page, in this case Talk:Thomas W. Sneddon, Jr.. (BTW, please don't WP:SHOUT.) —teb728 t c 04:01, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Unless he has chosen to make a public point of his religion, as reported in reliable sources, this information should not appear in the article. --ColinFine (talk) 18:02, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Safari Mac tgz search bug

When one enters the search term "tgz" with or without quotes into the search box on Wikipedia while using Safari on Mac the tgz disambiguation page is downloaded to the user's machine as a tgz file. Not sure where browser specific bugs should go in the Wikipedia discussion hierarchy so I hope it's ok to post this here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.94.162.19 (talk) 02:54, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I am not seeing this issue on Safari 6.0.1 (current version) running on OS X 10.8.2 "Mountain Lion". Is there anything different about your configuration? Plugins or extensions maybe? –– Anonymouse321 (talk • contribs) 04:13, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I once had a problem with my browser downloading a page/file type that it was just supposed to display (it was neither Safari nor Mac). I believe it just stopped as mysteriously as it started. - Purplewowies (talk) 08:09, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I have seen one or two similar reports about other browsers and endings. They couldn't follow a link like tgz but they could see the page by manually adding '?' to the url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tgz? PrimeHunter (talk) 10:55, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I can manually go to the page, the bug only occurs when entering tgz into the search box. I'm using Safari 5.1.7 on Snow Leopard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.94.162.19 (talk) 22:32, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

biographical article - date of death unknown

In a biographical article, what is the format to be used if the date of death is unknown? (In particular Theophilus Thompson). Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 03:50, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Bubba. Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#Dates of birth and death, "* When the date of death is completely unknown, it should be extrapolated from last known period of activity: "Robert Menli Lyon (1789 – after 1863) ..." Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:59, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

OK, so the "after 1874" is OK in this case. The article says that he is in the 1880 and 1920 census, but see the talk page. He is not in the 1920, according to that website, but there is someone with that name in the 1880 census with the birth year off by 1 year. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 04:04, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Be very careful here. It is generally taken as a bad idea to use primary government documents to cite birth and death dates. Asserting that he died between 1880 and 1920 based on appearing in one census but not in the other, or that the person with the same name and a "close" birth year based solely on primary documents is NOT allowed per WP:PRIMARY, which says "Do not analyze, synthesize, interpret, or evaluate material found in a primary source yourself; instead, refer to reliable secondary sources that do so." That's pretty unambiguous interpretation of material from a primary source. "If he's in census X and not in census Y means he died in the middle" is an interpretation unsupported by secondary sources, and would need a reliable secondary source to confirm. --Jayron32 05:03, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I didn't change that. In fact, I think I put in the "after 1874" quite some time ago. I looked at the article again today, and the part about the 1880 and 1920 census is new to me. It is in the reference that is linked. However, the 1920 census does not seem to show him - in contrast to the reference that says that the 1920 census does show him. (I understand what you are saying about census records and references.) Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 05:15, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Template in a bulleted list

Why are these two templates: Template:PhilPapers, and Template:InPho not participating nicely in bulleted lists? They are templates that produce external links, and are meant to be in a bulleted list, but show up as not bulleted.Greg Bard (talk) 07:14, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I seem to have fixed this by following the example of Template:SEP. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:13, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I just want to thank you and Anonymouse321‎ for your efforts! Greg Bard (talk) 08:38, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

John of Reading fixed these by removing almost all the newlines... but only two in each template needed to be removed. At Wikipedia:Template documentation#How to create a documentation subpage it states:

Important: Make sure the opening <noinclude> begins immediately after the last character of the template code or text and not on a new line, nor with any intervening spaces. Otherwise, extra space will be inserted below the template when it is used, which is usually not wanted.

This equally applies to the tail-end of any <noinclude>...</noinclude> inserted before the main template code - there should not be spaces or newlines between that and the start of the "proper" template code. Therefore, the two newlines to remove would have been the one following the first </noinclude> and the one preceding the second <noinclude>. The remainder of each template could have been left as it stood. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:06, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

OK, thank you. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:27, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Open in edit mode

Is there a simple way to select an article from a list, e.g. a list of misspellings, and open it in edit mode, without loading the article first and then selecting edit? - Arjayay (talk) 10:31, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes. If you enable Wikipedia:Navigation popups, whenever you hover over a link you will see a pop-up menu. One of the links on that menu is "Edit". -- John of Reading (talk) 10:34, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

That's just a bit fiddly (I have poor motor control), I was hoping for a keyboard shortcut, but thanks anyway - Arjayay (talk) 10:42, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser enables you to edit articles from categories. Please check it out if it addresses what you wanted to do. --Anbu121 (talk me) 10:46, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I've always avoided AWB, as it looks very fiddly, with small buttons and tabs. Perhaps I should try, and see how difficult it is for me to hit the right spot. Thanks, - Arjayay (talk) 11:16, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Instead of clicking the link, right-click it and select Copy Link Location (the words may be different in different browsers), then go to another browser tab or window, paste the URL into the address bar and append "?action=edit" to the end of it. --ColinFine (talk) 18:08, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Article's layout

I don't understand the reason why many articles about islands always put Geography section after History section. Some examples are this and this. This even puts Geography after Tourism and Transport. I think Geography is very important, even more important than History. If those islands didn't exist, no history would be made. I'm improving a local article and really need your advice. Thank you. PID (talk) 11:12, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Someone at the Geography Wikiproject can probably answer that. Please post your question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geography.--ukexpat (talk) 14:11, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Copyright

I would like to use an image from Wikipedia File:Pig2.png on a poster to advertise a schools lecture. The licensing description is:

"I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following license:

This file is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license."

Please could you confirm whether I can just use the image or whether I need to accredit the picture to somebody?

Many thanks.

Beverley

Lane-statistics (talk) 11:18, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, you must provide a reasonably-accessible statement that the image is copyrighted under that license and the pseudonym, in this case, Laiyanlong, of its creator. If you modify the work, which this license allows you to do, then you must provide a statement something like, "Adapted from an original work by Laiyanlong." However you use it, you must copyright your use of it under this same license. (If you include it in a larger work which is copyrighted under a different license than this, you must restrict or expand that license insofar as it applies to this image to the same license as it now has.) The full text of the license can be found here. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 13:23, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

putting a website address on the link list

by editing an article on the article about The Cube restaurant I would like to put the website address of park associati, the designer company of the building but it seems that it goes against wikipedia rules of not doing any publicity. That's not a problem for us but why there is the complete email address of Electrolux on the article? Is this not advertising? Thank you for let me know luciana— Preceding unsigned comment added by Parkassociati (talk • contribs) 13:07, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Could you indicate which article has the problem again, by naming it exactly or linking it by surrounding the name with brackets like [[this]]? If there is a problem with excess linking or inappropriate links, they should be removed, but the fact that another inappropriate link has not yet been removed is not an invitation to make the article even worse by adding more. If you can tell us exactly which article has the problem, we can help fix it. --Jayron32 13:25, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:External links. In a nutshell, external links should only be included if they supplement the enecyclopedia by supplying the reader with further information about the topic. On the face of it, if an article is about a specific restaurant, the designer's website would be unlikely to do that, but it might.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:03, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I am perfectly prepared to assume good faith here, but this does have the air of WP:LINKSPAM about it.--ukexpat (talk) 15:06, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

There is not "a complete email address of Electrolux" in the article The Cube (restaurant). What there is, is a link to the restaurant's official website, which is specifically permitted by WP:ELYES. This happens to be in the domain www.electrolux.com, so that string appears on the page. Any other commercial link (including one to Electrolux's primary website, for example) would be forbidden under WP:ELNO. --ColinFine (talk) 18:18, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

How can I edit a Reference on a Wikipedia article ?

How can I edit a Reference on a Wikipedia article ? I have tried to add a refence to the article about TAKRL (The Amazing Kornyfone label)but I just dont get it correct edited.its reference NO 6. I have tried to follow the instructions on Wikipedia about "how to edit references" but I cant see what I do wrong.I would be very grateful for any help&advice as I want the artice to look correct...regards Flyspes — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flyspes (talk • contribs) 13:08, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

It looks weird because you've entered it under the "References" section - it needs to actually be located in the text of the article, like the other references. However, as a blog, it's not a reliable source and so isn't appropriate anyway; I've removed it from the article. Yunshui 雲‍水 13:42, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Redirecting to a section

Legal paper currently redirects to Paper size, which is good. However, it would be even better if it redirected to that article's "Other sizes" section, but I don't know how to make it go there. Can you change it? 2001:18E8:2:1020:749C:5B76:1D8E:3D22 (talk) 13:18, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

To redirect to sections, include #<sectionname> after the page name. For e.g, In this case, The code in redirect page 'Legal paper' should be #REDIRECT [[Paper size#Other sizes]] --Anbu121 (talk me) 13:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

It occurs to me that the IP editor may not know how to edit a redirect page (it took me a while to figure out when I first started editing) - I've already changed the redirect, but should you come across such a situation in future: when you access a page via a redirect, you'll see a small note under the article title saying "Redirected from other page". Clicking the link there will take you straight to the redirect page itself, which you can then edit just like any other page. Yunshui 雲‍水 13:36, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

See http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bitwise_NOT&redirect=no or http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Double_induction&redirect=no for examples.
Additionally note that such redirection will work provided the target header is not changed. To avoid redirection (or link) break, add a note just below the target header. It should be a HTML comment warning other editors. e.g.

      <!-- please do not change, linked from page [[xxx]] and from redirect [[yyy]] -->

CiaPan (talk) 13:51, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the help! It turns out that I wasn't paying attention and asked for the wrong section; "Loose sizes" makes more sense, so I've edited the redirect and made it go to "Loose sizes", and I've added the HTML comment warning too. 2001:18E8:2:1020:749C:5B76:1D8E:3D22 (talk) 13:59, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Well done! CiaPan (talk) 20:31, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

size of the type on the page

My PC uses windows 7 home, whenever I wnat to see an article it appears in very small print. How can I enlarge the print font to a bigger size?¬¬¬¬ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.15.251.10 (talk) 15:21, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

This is not determined by Wikipedia, but by the settings in your Internet browser. If you need help with that, please ask here. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 15:38, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

To reset your browser zoom level, try CTRL+0.--ukexpat (talk) 16:01, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Plot image not showing up

What is wrong with the image in Birch and Swinnerton-Dyer conjecture#History? I don't see the image when viewing the page in read mode. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 15:22, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I think the problem is with the image itself, on Wikimedia Commons. It is over 100,000 lines of SVG, and even after I have downloaded it, it takes my browser quite a while to render it. So my guess is that the Wikipedia machinery which presents it in the article at the size specified, is getting stuck.

One possibility would be to download the SVG, get it rendered on your local system, take a screenshot of it, save it as a PNG, and upload to PNG to commons (with a different name). Maproom (talk) 16:12, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Commons already has a PNG version – I switched the article to that version of the image. PleaseStand (talk) 19:13, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

That SVG image causes problem with the rendered in other sizes links, if you click one, it gives an error message.Naraht (talk) 19:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Invalid <ref> tag; invalid names

Hi, getting this msg "Cite error: Invalid <ref> tag; invalid names, e.g. too many; see the help page" The help page does not explain my problem.

The wiki mark up that produces this error is:

<ref name=Hasan 2012>{{cite journal|last=Hasan|first=HM|coauthors=Hasan, HM|title=Stapled transanal rectal resection for the surgical treatment of obstructed defecation syndrome associated with rectocele and rectal intussusception.|journal=ISRN surgery|date=2012|volume=2012|pages=652345|pmid=22577584}}</ref>

How to stop this error appearing? I can't see any problem with the ref... TY in advance. tepi (talk) 19:28, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Can you mention in which article you are getting this error? --Anbu121 (talk me) 19:39, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Anbu. Page in question is Internal intussusception... tepi (talk) 19:43, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

The quotes were missing. I have fixed it now. --Anbu121 (talk me) 19:49, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much, I will remember how to solve this in future. tepi (talk) 19:51, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

The help page states: "Inclusion of any other characters including spaces requires that the name be enclosed in straight quotes (")" If this is not clear, please discuss on the help talk page. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 03:33, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Education Program

Hi guys. We're considering the activation of "Education program" extension on it.wiki, but we'd like to have a sneak peak into it before asking around for consensus. I understand the extension is active on en.wiki but I can't find in my interface or in the preferences any of the features described. Do I have to activate it somehow? Does it work properly or is it still unstable? Thanks in advance. Note: I may forget to keep an eye on this thread, so feel free to write me an e-mail, should I ignore your answers for more than two days :P --Dry Martini (talk) 19:35, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Uh, wait: I don't have the autoconfirmed flag on this project, so that may be the reason why I don't see any of features. Hmm. I'll just make two edits and see :) --Dry Martini (talk) 19:38, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Nope, no changes. Intriguing... --Dry Martini (talk) 19:44, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

It's not shown at Special:Version so it's not installed currently. See Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Education Program extension and bugzilla:40477. Test2wiki:Special:Version shows it's installed there. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:21, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Alright, thanks. I'll try to get a flag there to make some testing. Be careful, though: Wikipedia:User access levels lists permissions and flags related to Education Program. I would fix it myself if I was sure it doesn't have to be kept. --Dry Martini (talk) 13:50, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Can several users edit page before it goes 'live'?

Dear wikipedia. A page I am creating and put live was recently deleted. The administrator has put the page back in my sandbox so I can alter and improve it. I put the nacent page live so that other co-workers could edit it; in fact it was one of these who told me it had been deleted. Is is possible for my co-workers to edit the page while it is still in my sandbox or must it be live for this? Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gurnard (talk • contribs) 21:48, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Everyone can edit every page with the exception of system pages and protected pages. Pages get protected if they are vital for proper displaying of many Wiki articles (e.g. some sophisticated templates) or when are object of edit wars. So usually everybody cen edit your sandbox pages. What's more, when the page is finally moved to the main articles space, it will preserve the whole editing history with all editors' contribution visible (just like it keeps now the history of changes [1] made before the page was moved to your space). --CiaPan (talk) 22:07, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Although as CiaPan explained, everything can be edited, people generally do not edit other people's sandbox drafts unless invited to do so. Roger (talk) 15:49, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Page Janadala (Princely State) Should Be Deleted

The following page,Jandala (princely state), must be deleted is the content it contains is historically incorrect. The following comments on the comment page of the article explain things very clearly.

[edit]Page To Be Deleted

Their was never a princely state named Jandala in the Indian Empire. This wikipedia page does not have any working links to outside sources on the internet, or even references from books to support the claim that such a political entity ever existed. This is an insult to historical accuracy and must be deleted. Thus I am deleting the content on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.47.170.81 (talk) 22:11, 12 October 2012 (UTC) [edit]Status of Jandala

Jandala was never a princely state. Before the Sikh invasion of Hazara the Khans of Jandala did exercise some feudal authority over the people of the said village but after its annexation by the Sikh Kingdom and later the British Indian Empire Jandala remained a village under the direct administration of the Government of India as part of the Hazara District and the same status was inherited by Pakistan. Khans of Jandala have never enjoyed a princely status. Their is not one official or even academic document from either the British era that shows Jandala to be a Princely State. At most the Khan of Jandala was a Jagirdar. Please provide proof that it was a princely or else it shall be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bolori (talk • contribs) 13:22, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

This issue must be resolved as wikipedia is today used as a primary source of information and spreading historical inaccuracies is a crime against the very essence of scholarly research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.47.170.81 (talk) 22:20, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Please don't tell us what must or must not happen. Wikipedia's value as a source of information is not vitiated by the many errors it contains (some of them introduced deliberately by vandals), since anybody who is seriously concerned about accuracy will use Wikipedia as a starting point and follow the references in its articles.

But if you think that Jandala (princely state) should be deleted, please follow Wikipedia's WP:Deletion procedure - and be ready to support your case with relevant arguments. As it stands, the article has no references (the one external link does not work for me), and so it could be deleted: but it would be better if it could be improved.

I observe that most of the hits I get on google for Jandala (princely state) are mirrors of Wikipedia, but this site (which is obviously partisan for the Jadoons) says that "The Jadoons also rule the princely state of Jandala". This makes me think that the question isn't a clear historical fact as you state, but a disagreement about the facts; but I may be wrong, as I know nothing about the subject. If it is, you should follow the Wikipedia guidelines on WP:Content disputes. --ColinFine (talk) 00:13, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

adding photos in webpage

how can we add a photo in the decription — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.211.91.178 (talk) 22:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

If you are talking about adding a photo to a Wikipedia article, please see WP:Uploading images and WP:Image tutorial. If you are talking about something else, then this is not the right place to ask, as this is the Wikipedia help desk. --ColinFine (talk) 00:15, 13 October 2012 (UTC)