Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 September 29

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September 29

Named ref tags syntax - what is the space for?

Most of the doc I've seen for coding named ref tags shows the syntax <ref name=refname />, with a space before the slash. However, the ref works fine without the space. Can anyone tell me the rationale for coding an unnecessary space there? ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 06:23, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

The relevant section of the XML standard can be misinterpreted as specifying that there should be a space there. And I often, in html, see <br />, where <br/> works fine. I too would like to know if there's a valid reason for the space. Maproom (talk) 07:11, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Now I have found an explanation, here. The conclusion is that the space is superfluous. It is only relevant if you are writing html (which you aren't) for a long-obsolete version of Netscape. Maproom (talk) 07:23, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the research effort. The rationale seems extremely thin to me, and it doesn't justify extra work and care on the part of countless editors who mistakenly think they have to do it that way. Further, the space adds an opportunity for a line break to split the tag in edit mode and diffs. These are things that actually have real-world meaning and impact, unlike rigid adherence to some arbitrary technical standard.

The issue is particularly significant because Visual Editor appears to insist on including the space, and that screws up existing articles that already have a convention in place to omit the space. (The same applies to quotation marks around ref names that don't require quotation marks, something that could easily be avoided by VE.) ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 07:44, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm leaving work in a couple minutes and don't have time to look it up right now, sorry, but I think you'll find that the quotes are a convention carried over from XHTML. URLs and alt tags are supposed to be in quotes there as well. So every value after an equal sign tends to get quotes. Dismas|^(talk) 10:54, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Parser tags included in the core MediaWiki software and extension tags added by software extensions may look like HTML tags, but they are not, so using HTML specifications to compare them is spurious. <ref>...</ref> tags are extension tags added by the Cite software extension. MediaWiki uses Sanitizer.php to clean up a few things, such as adding quotes to attribute values if they are missing, thus adding quotes in the reference name is optional, if they meet certain rules. If the name does not meet those rules then sanitizer.php adds the quotes in the wrong place and the reference name is mangled; VE plays it safe by always adding the quotes. MediaWiki also uses HTML Tidy to clean up the rendered HTML— one fix is to add a missing space in closing tags. Thus <br/> works because it is silently converted to <br />. Tidy also fixes tags such as <br>, </br>, <br.> <br > and <br,>. --  Gadget850 ^talk 11:16, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Our world is not going to be VE-only for the foreseeable future, unless I'm missing something. VE needs to play nicely in a mixed world, and that includes not messing with established, working, and well-reasoned conventions in existing articles. Where should I go to complain about this? Also, what's the best way to get doc and help pages changed to <ref name=refname/>? Should I be WP:BOLD and do it myself, or should I seek consensus somewhere first? Aren't there some occurrences that can only be changed by template editors? ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 11:53, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

The constructs <ref name=refname /> and <ref name=refname/> are syntactically identical and work equally well. If you see one form being altered to the other, there is no point in altering it back. There is even less point in going through pages solely for the purpose of removing (or adding) the space. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:20, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

I agree, and I haven't suggested doing either, unless your last sentence refers to doc and help pages. There's zero justification for any doc that makes the user believe he has to spend time and attention on making sure there's a space there, when that is not the case. In my 30 years in the computer field, I have never seen any technical doc that does anything like that. ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 12:27, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Similar proposals have been made for <br /> and have never gained traction. I agree with Redrose64 in that there is no meaningful difference and changing it is pointless. --  Gadget850 ^talk 12:53, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm out. Thanks for your time. ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 13:00, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

The Australian Film Sons of Matthew circa 1949 .

The australian actress who played Selina Benson was not Betty OrNe it was Betty ORME .. I know this because she is my mother ... could you please rectify this ... thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.29.36.7 (talk) 08:30, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

 Done. (One source here.) Thanks for pointing out the error. You could have fixed it yourself by clicking on the edit link to the right of the "Cast" heading in Sons of Matthew. Deor (talk) 09:38, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

I have "broken" a template

It is Early U.S. Gay rights movement

I added Athletic Model Guild to the last section, which then stopped displaying.

I took it out again, but it still wouldn't display correctly.

I can't find anywhere in the Help pages that addresses this.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deisenbe (talk • contribs) 12:02, 29 September 2014

Hi, To editor Deisenbe: I have fixed it for you and inserted the link. Looks like you accidentally removed an equals sign. Fixed it here and inserted the link here. DuncanHill (talk) 12:06, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

@Deisenbe: See Help:Page history for how to check your edits to a page. The net effect of your first edit and attempted revert was [1] which shows the problem. Help:Reverting shows how to revert an edit exactly. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:44, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Question apparently unrelated to Wikipedia

If someone told you that you had to travel five hours to the national capital to work with the central government, which type of government would this nation most likely have? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.185.24.19 (talk) 12:13, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 4 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. --David Biddulph (talk) 12:22, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

I think this template may be appropriate here as well: {{subst:HD/dyoh}}:

Please do your own homework.
Welcome to the Wikipedia Help desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misevaluation, but it is our policy here not to do others' homework, but merely to aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn how to solve such problems.
Please attempt to solve the problem yourself first. You can search Wikipedia or search the Web.
If you need help with a specific part of your homework, the Reference desk can help you grasp the concept. Do not ask knowledge questions here, just those about using Wikipedia. Chaheel Riens (talk) 12:54, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Share button

Why is there not a Facebook "Share" button on Wikipedia pages?

Gadfly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.28.99.197 (talk) 14:02, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Because Wikipedia is not a social network. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:29, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

But for those who simply have to post a Wikipedia page next to the photo of their dinner they've just uploaded, there's always Sharebox. Yunshui ^雲_水 14:36, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Sharebox is a script that reorders your toolbox. It adds new buttons that make it easier to mail, print or share an article on Facebook or another linksharing service. You must have an account to add Sharebox to the sidebar. See User:TheDJ/Sharebox for more information.

There have been multiple discussion on adding this feature that have ended in no consensus. --  Gadget850 ^talk 20:17, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Assistance with Uploading a registered Logo

Hello,

I am a representative for a company that has a page on Wikipedia and I am trying to get the appropriate logo uploaded as the current logo is the old version. I am in the marketing department with the company and need to know how to upload this file with the appropriate copyright tags.

Please Advise!

Jana — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jana.Brackett (talk • contribs) 15:48, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

First, please declare your conflict of interest on your user page. Second, you can make a request for the file to be uploaded at: WP:Files for upload. Hope this helps.--ukexpat (talk) 15:54, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Go through this page, and since the image you are trying to upload is probably copyrighted, read this section, in particular. Once you have determined that the image is suitable for upload, upload it! --Fauzan^{✆ talk}_{✉ mail} 15:58, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Requesting an article

I want to request an article on "Medallion Homes", but it is so complicated and confusing, that I am completely daunted by the endless links and redirects, the edit tabs... sheesh. Can't I get someone who knows how to work this thing to do it for me? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Awbattelle (talk • contribs) 19:15, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Firstly, you'd have to provide evidence that 'Medallion Homes' merits an article in Wikipedia. Specifically, you'll have to demonstrate through references to third party published reliable sources that the subject matter meets the relevant notability guideline - and a quick search on Google suggests that though there are several organisations calling themselves 'Medallion Homes', none of them are likely to meet the criteria. This is an encyclopaedia, not a platform for free advertising. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:22, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Which Medallion Homes is it about? Do you want to request somebody else to write an article at Wikipedia:Requested articles, or do you want to write a draft yourself and request it is placed in the encyclopedia? PrimeHunter (talk) 20:34, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Given how backlogged Requested Articles is, a draft (former Articles for Creation) is more likely to get the requested attention. However, do you (the original poster) have an affiliation with Medallion Homes? If so, you will have to deal with the conflict of interest policy. That is, declare your interest, and the reviewer of the draft will take that into account, as in deleting any puffery or promotion. As two previous replies have noted, there are several businesses by that name, and you will have to provide third party published reliable sources that one of them is notable. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:44, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

image sizing

A bat

I'd like to put this image in an article but when I try to size it, it doesn't show. Can someone tell me what I need to do? SW3 5DL (talk) 19:30, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

It shows fine in Straw-coloured fruit bat and Eidolon (genus). Please be more specific about the article. --  Gadget850 ^talk 20:14, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

It works for me when I sized it here. Do you see it to the right? Which code do you use to place it? PrimeHunter (talk) 20:21, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Ah, brilliant. Now I realize my mistake. I'd just done a sizing for a map, no problem, but this for some reason, I put the thumb/pixels before the .JPG. Thank you Gadget850 and PrimeHunter. Appreciate the help. SW3 5DL (talk) 20:31, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Mass message log

At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/massmessage there are a number of entries in the form

"Delivery of "X" to User talk:Example was skipped because target has opted-out of message delivery"

When I opted out of message delivery, I expected to be left alone, not to see a notice in my watchlist every time a message delivery was skipped. Where do I go to complain about this? --Guy Macon (talk) 22:43, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Everybody with your talk page on their watchlist see the log entry. There doesn't appear to be a way to avoid it. You can post to mw:Extension talk:MassMessage. The author Legoktm seems to reply quickly there. In this case the mass message used Wikipedia:Meetup/LA/Invites. You can remove your name and add it to the opt out list at the bottom, but it will not affect mass messages using other lists. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:50, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Alas, no answer so far. --Guy Macon (talk) 07:32, 2 October 2014 (UTC)