Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2020 January 14

Welcome to the Wikipedia Help Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current Help Desk pages.

January 14

Thanking Editors

When clicking the "thank" link, I'm asked to confirm that I want to "publicly send thanks". How, exactly, is it public? I've found no means of seeing who thanked whom. Am I missing something, or is this just a general warning that it potentially could become publicly visible at some future point in time?Quickfix333 (talk) 02:01, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Quickfix333: Special:Log/thanks (which is at the Page tab → Page logs → All logs). —[AlanM1(talk)]— 02:21, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1: Good to know, thanks. Quickfix333 (talk) 03:16, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Application of "Subsequent use" style guideline for people's names

Is the subject's name in the lead of a biographical article considered "initial mention" for purposes of WP style guidelines? Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography#Subsequent use says, "After the initial mention, a person should generally be referred to by surname only, ..." I ask that question after an edit changed the beginning of the "Early life" section of William Hartnell from "Hartnell" to "William Henry Hartnell" with the edit summary "Restore full name to first section, as it is the first usage outside of lead." Eddie Blick (talk) 02:06, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Teblick, The lead does not count for initial mention. Generally, someone's full birth name will be noted in the Early life section (with some exceptions of course), and just surname from there. But their name should also be listed in the lead, as a lead should summarize an article, and present no new information. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 03:15, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, CaptainEek; I appreciate your clarification. I wish the style guide had specified that the lead does not count. I tend to read things literally, so I didn't realize that an exception exists. Eddie Blick (talk) 03:24, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@CaptainEek: are you sure? Where are you getting this information from? In the absence of a conflicting guideline, why are you concluding "initial mention" actually means "initial mention outside the lead"? (Courtesy ping Eddie Blick) – Teratix ₵ 03:42, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Teratix, Ya know, I could be wrong here, perhaps its me that has misinterpreted the guideline. But I've seen it the way I suggest more than the other. Perhaps that just means that such pages are out of MOS compliance, but I think the MOS does need clarifying in that case. For example, Donald Trump's article lists his full name at the beginning of the lead, and also at the beginning of the early life section. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 03:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

I read through several FAs; they mostly, though not exclusively, employ CaptainEek’s style. I personally dislike it, as it seems browbeating to present the same information twice to the reader. – Teratix ₵ 04:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Teratix, This could probably warrant a request for comment, or at least a discussion on the MOS page, as there is some uncertainty here. While I do it my way(cus I thought it was policy tbh, but now see that policy is vague), I agree that it does kinda feel like browbeating. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 04:36, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

I have opened such a discussion at MOSBIO talk. – Teratix ₵ 05:43, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for starting that discussion, Teratix. Eddie Blick (talk) 00:31, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

State and local political sex scandals in the United States

This page is incomplete and misleading. For instance, David Dreier never served in state or local government, yet he is on this page. Also, the scandal that landed him on a page like this does not meet the definition of scandal laid out on the Federal sex scandal page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mediaexpert3 (talk • contribs) 06:32, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Mediaexpert3. I have removed Dreier from that category, as no scandals are mentioned in his article.--Quisqualis (talk) 06:49, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Good work, thanks. He is also featured on the List of federal political sex scandals in the United States even though, like I said, his situation does not meet the criteria laid out as a "scandal." Shall I edit that page? Mediaexpert3 (talk) 07:06, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

You can edit Dreier's page. At the bottom, the categories are listed. Remove the federal sex scandal one.--Quisqualis (talk) 07:30, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Removing a Category does not affect a related List page. —Tamfang (talk) 02:51, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Redirect codes

I often see explanatory codes underneath the first line of Redirects. Where is there an explanation of these codes? If I am creating a redirect (and redirects are cheap, and are encouraged if they are useful), where is there information on which of these codes I should use? Robert McClenon (talk) 08:27, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Are you thinking of those listed at Template:R template index or more comprehensively at Wikipedia:Template messages/Redirect pages? --David Biddulph (talk) 08:43, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. The more comprehensive list. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:10, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

What to do?

Hi, I have been asked continuously to add award column (in infobox ) in Shamsheer Vayalil article. Though I think the anon. IP request is genuine (as per Template:Infobox) but I can't take any risk in adding the award column in infobox. Anyone interested then, help in sorting out this IP user problem. (Ankitroy1997 (talk) 10:17, 14 January 2020 (UTC))

@Ankitroy1997: You are the latest addition to an ever-increasing group of editors who have been repetitively asked by dynamic-IP editors to add unnecessary detail to the Shamsheer article. The talk page, as you have noted, reveals that the awards edit has been requested previously (possibly more than once) and been declined. If you do not wish to become involved, write a polite reply at your talk page to say so. There's no burden on you to make edits others request but aren't willing to learn to do themselves. Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 11:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

In this case, there is a CIR/IDHT problem that caused them (a single IP editor comprising two young people) to be asked by someone last year to not edit the page themselves. They keep canvassing for new victims, who are usually sorry they responded, so I've tried to at least point new potential victims to the article talk page to see the history. Other solutions welcome. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 12:40, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Eagleash: They once again edited my talk page with the similar request.They also told that they want betterment of articles. They also know that I belong from India so, I think they find "brotherhood" in me. Their demand is to add awards column(Pravasi Bharatiya Samman,2014) in infobox. I also think their request is "genuine" this time(don't know about previous ones).

Till now I have only edited Madhuri Dixit article( interested in actors and actresses article) and that also in paragraph not in infobox. Editing infobox is a serious job because it's difficult to manage space there. I don't want to hurt them or anyone emotionally in the beginning or even in future. I have seen you and others have helped them a lot. Help them for the last time and think you are helping me instead. After this I'll also start ignoring their matter. Ankitroy1997 (talk) 13:32, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Ankitroy1997: If you want to do so, it's relatively simple to add the award to the infobox. If you click 'edit source', once the edit window opens you will see a line about 12-15 lines down 'awards ='. Leave a space after the equals sign and add the text. Preview it and publish if you are happy with it. However, other editors have felt it not to be notable and have declined it. If it is added again there's always the possibility that it will be removed. The IP-editor should not ask multiple editors for the same or similar edits. I don't think it could be considered canvassing but it's not really in the spirit of Wikipedia. (There's a 'loose' consensus that the award should not be included). Eagleash (talk) 14:49, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Eagleash: It that correct? Please see the article Shamsheer Vayalil and tell. I think I did it. Ankitroy1997 (talk) 15:04, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Not quite. I have fixed it as part of this edit. The 'pipe' (vertical line at the start of the row is vitally important). I have also removed 'residence' as it is an unsupported parameter. Eagleash (talk) 15:15, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Eagleash: Do you also find something wrong I mean to say it is "Pravasi Bharatiya saman" instead of Pravasi Bharatiya Samman (2014)? Ankitroy1997 (talk) 15:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes; you misspelled it and missed the capital S – and then came here to point out the error... !? I have fixed it... Eagleash (talk) 15:51, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Update/Delete faulty page

Hello, having problems with this Wikipedia page i made, it needs some agent updates. Because it is displaying a wrong message to people so i was asking how can i edit or delete it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orinea (talk • contribs) 12:10, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Orinea: Which "page", and what do you mean by "agent updates"? What are you seeing? The only recent edit by you appears to be to your User:Orinea/sandbox, to add File:Comedy Kings Network LOGO.png. BTW, where did you get that logo? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 12:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

There's also Draft:Comedy Kings Network which contains an error message. Details of how to fix it can be found at Template:Warning VisualEditor bug. Eagleash (talk) 14:27, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Orinea. I see that you uploaded the logo to Commons with a declaration that you are the copyright owner: this means that you have a Conflict of interest in writing about this organisation, and you are discouraged (though not forbidden) from writing about it. Further, If you receive remuneration from it in any way, you must comply with the policy on WP:paid editing.

The reason that editing with a COI is hard is that it is difficult to be neutral in tone. Remember that Wikipedia is really not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves: it is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject have chosen to say about it, and been published in reliable sources. --ColinFine (talk) 14:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Orinea: Before you waste any more time on this, please read and study our notability requirements for organizations. See WP:NCORP. Really. I mean it. Wikipedia wants an article on every notable subject. Wikipedia does not want and will delete an article on any subject that is not notable by our definition, which is frustrating for you and irritating for us. None of the references in you current sandbox are suitable to establish notability. We end up deleting about 200 articles every day. You may be able to find a more appropriate web site for your material: see WP:OUT. -Arch dude (talk) 16:58, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Coppia Italia 2019 - 2020

There is no mention anywhere of Palermo, nor are shown on the map but, they are definitely in the competition so why have they been completely excluded? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.44.51.247 (talk) 14:58, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Where is your published reliable source that says they are in the tournament this year? Did their exclusion from Serie B not also exclude them from the Coppa Italia? --David Biddulph (talk) 15:13, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

How do I archive my user talk page?

My user talk page is getting a bit cluttered, and I want to archive it. How can I do so? Thanks! Félix An (talk) 15:06, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Start here Help:Archiving a talk page - X201 (talk) 15:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Félix An: I took the liberty of adding an archive box for you, but of course, you can get rid of it if you like! ——SN54129 15:12, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Serial Number 54129: Thanks! Félix An (talk) 15:14, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

wikipedia page

Hello, I used to have a wikipedia page and I see that it has disappeared. How can I find it with all the contents that were on it? It was well written so was wondering if it is in an archive somewhere. How can I get it back online?Mcbfr19 (talk) 15:43, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Mcbfr19 and welcome to Wikipedia. Unfortunately, according to your stats, you haven't actually written any articles yet  :) perhaps you used a different account? It's very difficult identifying the article without a title, you see :) ——SN54129 15:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Mcbfr19: Do you mean that you were the subject of a Wikipedia article? If so we will need the name of the article to answer your question. -Arch dude (talk) 16:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Proofreading

How does anyone do proofreading on wiki sites? There are times i would like to help with this. I'm not perfect but have some background through a school newspaper. That was a long time ago so i am a little rusty but still think it is possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:38CA:9750:24C1:3B6B:16F8:5E2D (talk) 16:40, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for offering to help. You are free to just jump in and edit Wikipedia articles to improve them as you see fit. However the editors who enjoy this sort of work have formed a project and have a lot of information about their work. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors. -Arch dude (talk) 17:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest in editing Wikipedia! It can always use more copyeditors. I'd recommend you register an account, which will give you access to various gadgets and customizable settings that make life easier here. It also facilitates communication with other editors, an important part of our model. Please also see our Manual of Style. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 15:47, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Wikiredia

(This Help Desk is not really a suitable place for this question.) Does anyone know about Wikiredia? It's a mirror of Wikipedia, but unlike Wikipedia it allows Google to spider its talk pages. You might think it doesn't have talk pages, because its (copies of our) articles don't link to them; but I found it from a Google search which took me to one. Maproom (talk) 16:51, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

No, but from my first look it seems like a violation of Wikipedias license since there is no form of attribution(I'm on mobile right now, possible that I missed something, but I dont think so). Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 06:52, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Issues with a wikipedia help

Hello, my name is Alvaro Gonzalez. I am trying to solve issues with the following Wikipedia page Denise Rousseau, but I am unable to understand why they arise. Can someone help me?

Best regards. Alvaro — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlvaroGM88 (talk • contribs) 17:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@AlvaroGM88: Please read the links in the "issues" box on the page. Basically, Wikipedia needs secondary sources, not primary sources, and those secondary sources need to meet certain criteria: see WP:RS. -Arch dude (talk) 17:43, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Protected pages

I have done 25+ edits on wikipedia in just two days of joining. I also want to edit protected pages. What is the procedure for that? Ankitroy1997 (talk) 19:10, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Ankitroy1997, once your account is four days old, you should be able to edit semi-protected pages. See Wikipedia:Protection policy § Semi-protection and Wikipedia:User access levels § Autoconfirmed users for details. Eman235/talk 19:46, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Ankitroy1997 Is there a particular reason that you want to edit protected articles? That's not something that new users typically seek out to do. 331dot (talk) 19:55, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@331dot: Hahaha!!!.. Don't be afraid my friend. I want to tell you that my interest is in editing actors and actresses article as well as in billionaires also. Some of the articles( the articles which I described above)are protected and we are not allowed to access them. This is the only reason. Ankitroy1997 (talk) 04:50, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Ankitroy1997 Who is "we"? 331dot (talk) 10:20, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

331dot "we" means new editors who are new to wikipedia (like me).Ankitroy1997 (talk) 12:29, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

@Ankitroy1997: even before you are autoconfirmed, you can make suggestions on the articles' talk pages. When you do start directly editing, I strongly recommend that you study the WP:BLP policy since it appears that those are the types of articles you are interested in. It's one of our very few core policies, and inadvertent violations are one of our biggest problems. And thanks for helping! -Arch dude (talk) 06:51, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Conflicting information

Hi, just wanted to point out that this page states that this person both did and did not have children:

Zabwedaung Mibaya

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.15.64.170 (talk) 19:12, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

The no-offspring statement is apparently sourced but requires a page No. as the online archived book is of 645 pages and search of contents using Zabwedaung Mibaya did not reveal the info. The 3-children statement appears unsourced and I removed it and copied it oput of the i/bx. I also left a note at the TP of the editor who created the page, hoping for clarification. Eagleash (talk) 21:01, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Reference error that isn't visible

Greetings,

does anyone here know where the reference error on User:Jo-Jo Eumerus/1669 Etna eruption comes from? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 19:31, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Those refs are defined in the refs list but never used in the article, just like the message says. If you search on the ref name in the error message, you will find the definition in the ref list. MB 19:53, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@MB: Problem is, there is no error message anywhere... Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 20:44, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Then what is it that you see that indicates there is a ref error? Eagleash (talk) 21:05, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Eagleash:The page is listed in Category:User pages with reference errors, which is being triggered by some template as there is no string "User pages with reference errors" in the article text. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 21:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: The error messages are in the HTML of the rendered page but are hidden by default. I can see them in Firefox by choosing "View page source" and then looking for the word "error". User:MB/common.css contains the line .brokenref {display: inline !important;} which, I think, makes them show up. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:35, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

That CSS works, the message is that "Castagnino1994" and "Azzaro1999" aren't being used. – Thjarkur (talk) 23:15, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Jo-Jo Eumerus, I've been gone all day. I saw the error messages but didn't realize it was because I had special CSS; that must have been something I added years ago. MB 23:56, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks,^^that did it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:14, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Confused

Hi - I used the Username TerraVanStern but my name is Margi White and I was trying to post something about 1) my boss Terra Vanzant Stern 2) Our company and 3) Leaner Six Sigma which is a system we used that is getting a lot of attention lately. I got a message back that I couldn't write about myself but I was writing about my boss - is this still something you can't do. And, Finally since I'm a new user I really can't find my user page. I looked under the user name I used but it says a page hasn't been created. Thank you very much. All the info I gave for the short three pages I created (that I hope I can add to later) can be verified if you go to our website www.SSDGlobal.net. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by TerraVanStern (talk • contribs) 20:19, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

TerraVanStern, You can write about yourself, but it is strongly discouraged. Same goes for writing about anyone you know personally. My personal recommendation is as follows:

1) Disclose paid editing per WP:PAID (assuming you are being paid to do so). Not doing so while being paid is a good way to get blocked from the site indefinitely, per the WMF Terms Of Service.

2) Change username as to not impersonate your boss

3) Very carefully review the notability guidelines and the person notability guidelines.

4) Resume writing the article at your own risk, a large number of reviewers will end up holding you to high standards if you're a paid editor

For note, user pages are for internal use only. No-one will ever actually see them on, say, google, as they are not indexed.

--MoonyTheDwarf (Braden N.) (talk) 20:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

I've looked over the two drafts you created. Neither would be accepted, as the subjects do not satisfy WP:GNG. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@TerraVanStern: I would like to emphasize Clarityfiend's point. Before you waste any more time on this, please read and study our notability requirements for organizations. (WP:NCORP) and for individuals (WP:NPERSON). Really. I mean it. Wikipedia wants an article on every notable subject. Wikipedia does not want and will delete an article on any subject that is not notable by our definitions, which is frustrating for you and irritating for us. None of the references in you current sandbox are suitable to establish notability. We end up deleting about 200 articles every day. You may be able to find a more appropriate web site for your material: see WP:OUT. -Arch dude (talk) 20:35, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Where to go to get advice on a policy dispute

Quite simply, there seems to be a dispute among us about list policy. I want to know the right place to go to in order to ask the general editor population to weigh in on the policy itself. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Methodist Churches in Leicester is the AfD where it has come up. Jerod Lycett (talk) 21:07, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Jerodlycett: Generally, on the talk page of the policy in question. In this case I cannot determine the exact nature of the policy or of the dispute, so maybe start by articulating that in concisely. -Arch dude (talk) 21:47, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Arch dude: The policy in question is WP:LISTPURP, with an aside of that vs WP:NOTDIR. That seems to be the entire debate across that and two related lists up for deletion. I'm WP:TIRED of the debate that I accidentally started, and honestly took a moment to convince myself to not AN/I the whole thing. Jerod Lycett (talk) 22:03, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Jerodlycett: (Minor note) LISTPURP is a MOS guideline and not a policy; NOTDIR is a policy. — MarkH₂₁^talk 22:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Request for help to upload/replace main image on my father's Wikipedia

Hello,

My father, Pampero Firpo, was a professional wrestler who died on January 9, 2020.

I'd like to update the main photo on his Wikipedia page, since the one that is on there now has a big line through the center of it.

I'm being disallowed from updating the picture on his Wiki page, and I can't seem to attach it here.

Could someone who is an 'authorized user' please help me out?

His wikipedia page is here: Pampero Firpo

The image that I want to replace his main one with is a promotional photo from my Dad's personal collection.

Thanks,

John Kachmanian, son of Pampero Firpo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkachman (talk • contribs) 22:35, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Please accept my condolences on your loss. Regarding the image, you are not being permitted to upload it because you don't have 10 edits(though you are only three away); if you get 10 edits, you should be able to upload it. See WP:UPIMAGE for more information. You will want to make sure that you have the correct copyright for the photo- the copyright for promotional photos usually belongs to the photographer or agent and not the subject of the photo(or in this case, his estate). Others probably have better advice than I do. Again, I am sorry for your loss. 331dot (talk) 22:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Jkachman: getting involved with the details of copyright law is the last thing you need at a time like this, so I hope we can help you avoid too much frustration. I know that professional wrestlers often have dedicated fans, some of whom take pictures for them. If you know one of these folks, you might request that they upload a picture to which they own the copyright, instead of fighting through this yourself. The reason it's hard it that we try hard to obey the law, and copyright law is truly messy. If you encounter a problem, please immediately come back here for additional help. -Arch dude (talk) 07:01, 15 January 2020 (UTC)