Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2021 April 19

Help desk
< April 18	<< Mar | April | May >>	April 20 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Help Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current Help Desk pages.

April 19

Wodingtonshire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukes_in_the_United_Kingdom

In the Guardian someone posted that the Duke Of Wodingtonshire created the expression "Bloody Norah". https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-24596,00.html

When you search for Wodingtonshire this page (below) comes up in Google. As far as I can see there is no Duke Of Wodingtonshire. I think that someone has created a hidden tag on this page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukes_in_the_United_Kingdom

Thanks, Steve Whitehouse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.226.65.51 (talk) 03:05, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't see a "hidden tag" on the Dukes in the United Kingdom article about the Duke of Wodingtonshire. I suggest you start a discussion on the article's talk page - Talk:Dukes in the United Kingdom - with the URL you provided as well as more information about the "hidden tag". Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 03:33, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

The Guardian piece actually refers to a 'Duke Wodingtonshire' rather than a 'Duke of Wodingtonshire', and is from their 'notes and queries' section, which solicited replies from readers. As such, it doesn't constitute a reliable source for anything. From a quick Google search, I suspect that said Duke may be entirely fictitious. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:41, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

The Guardian piece is obviously a joke. There's no reason to believe such a title ever existed. The article Dukes in the United Kingdom has no mention of that name, hidden or otherwise. Maproom (talk) 07:40, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Using a period after a quoted sentence ending in an ellipsis

Could anyone please tell me what to do when a sentence ends with a quote that ends in an ellipsis? I'm not sure if the last period of the ellipsis constitutes the ending punctuation in and of itself, and the Manual of Style section on ellipses doesn't seem to cover it. I do know that Wikipedia uses logical quotation, though I'm not sure if that has any bearing on this.--Thylacine24 (talk) 03:11, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

@Thylacine24: The MOS section you linked to says "Place terminal punctuation after an ellipsis only if it is textually important, as is often the case with exclamation marks and question marks but rarely with periods". I take this to mean that you would normally omit the period if the sentence ends with an ellipsis. RudolfRed (talk) 03:42, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

@RudolfRed: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that only applies to the sentence being quoted, not the sentence that the quotation occurs in. Sorry if I'm wrong, sorry if I didn't make that clear in my original post, and also sorry to be condescending.--Thylacine24 (talk) 03:56, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

According to this source regarding MLA usage,[1] you need three ellipsis points and a period within the quote. (On the other hand, the author uses "Ex." instead of "E.g." for the relevant example.) Clarityfiend (talk) 04:24, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

This guide[2] agrees. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:25, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

@Clarityfiend: Thanks, but I'm a little uncertain about this, since the MOS says that it should "rarely" be done with periods. Could you please tell me if ending the sentence that the quotation is in is an exception?--Thylacine24 (talk) 04:38, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

The MOS seems to contradict itself, at least as far as an ending period goes. "where an ellipsis is immediately followed by any of . ? ! : ; , ) ] }" lumps all of the punctuation marks together, then in the immediately following two examples, treats an ending period differently than a question mark. The last two paragraphs of Ellipsis#American English also make no distinction between periods and other marks: "k...." vs "m...?" and "In legal writing in the United States, .... If an ellipsis ends the sentence, then there are three dots, each separated by a space, followed by the final punctuation ...." (I've always left off the ending period myself.) Clarityfiend (talk) 07:13, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

@Clarityfiend: Thanks. I'll take your advice.--Thylacine24 (talk) 10:54, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Draft: Schenck Process Wikipedia article

Dear Wikipedia-Team,

there seems to be a draft version for the company "Schenck Process" in the English Wikipedia. So far, such an article had not existed. How is the review process for draft articles usually and who could help to transform the draft into an actual article? It seems I am not an autoconfirmed user which is why the options I have myself are limited.

The Link of the draft version is as follows: Draft:Schenck Process.

Thank you.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.254.121.6 (talk)

I have added the appropriate information to allow you to submit the draft for review, although if you were to do so now, it would be rejected quickly, as it is sourced to nothing but the company website. A Wikipedia article should summarize what independent reliable sources say about the company, not what it says about itself.

If you work for the company, please read about conflict of interest and paid editing for information on required formal disclosures you may have to make. 331dot (talk) 11:14, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

You'll also want to read this: WP:YOURFIRSTARTICLE. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:37, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Differences between test & test2

I don't know what's the difference between test website and test2 website, so I'm confused. --About672599 (talk) 15:00, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi About672599, I am a little confused which test websites you are referring to.. If you mean the references on the Travel article, that has already been taken care of three days ago: Talk:Travel#Reference_1&2_are_duplicated. If you have a question about something else, then some more details would be helpful. – NJD-DE (talk) 15:12, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

@Njd-de: Maybe they mean test.wikipedia.org and test2.wikipedia.org? Kleinpecan (talk) 15:15, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

@About672599: testwiki: and test2wiki: are more for developers, administrators and other users with advanced rights who can test things without disrupting a normal wiki. There is almost never a reason for new users to make tests there. You can just use Wikipedia:Sandbox or your local sandbox for tests. If you really want to use one of the test wikis then go for testwiki:. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:49, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Reporting trespassing notification

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I have found surprising notification that I am irrelevant to the discussion. In nutshell, the message warns me not to organize WP:OS to Wikipedia and otherwise result in block or banned. I haven't edit Gospel of John and Tgeorgescu message sounds like creepy menace. The message reads:

"Please read Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 244#Gospel of John. Read it slowly and carefully and you'll find out why is it of application. If WP:CHOPSY say that the Bible is wrong something, so says Wikipedia. WP:EXTRAORDINARY applies to giving the lie to those universities, especially when they all toe the same line. I oppose WP:PROFRINGE in our articles. You may read the full rationale at WP:NOBIGOTS.

For Wikipedia, WP:FRINGE is what WP:CHOPSY say it's fringe, not what the Christian Church says it's fringe.

Ancient documents and artifacts referring to the Bible may only be analyzed by mainstream Bible scholars (usually full professors from reputable, mainstream universities), as far as Wikipedia is concerned. Your own analysis is unwanted, also, my own analysis is unwanted, and so on, this applies to each and every editor. Wikipedia is not a website for ventilating our own personal opinions.

Wikipedia editors have to WP:CITE WP:SOURCES. That's the backbone of writing all Wikipedia articles. Talk pages of articles are primarily meant for discussing WP:SOURCES.

Original research and original synthesis are prohibited in all their forms as a matter of website policy. Repeated trespassers of such rule will be blocked by website administrators.

Being a Wikipedian means you are a volunteer, not that you are free to write whatever you please. See WP:NOTFREESPEECH and WP:FREE. Same as K12 teachers, Wikipedians don't have academic freedom. Tgeorgescu (talk) 19 April 2021 13:47:39 (UTC)" The Supermind (talk) 16:21, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't know what Wikipedia:Oversight has to do with this. Anyway my message was: please kowtow to WP:CHOPSY and WP:RS/AC, and WP:CITE your WP:SOURCES.

And none of that is creepy, unless your purpose is to violate WP:NOR. I agree that for Wikipedians engaging in original research, that's the creepiest thing they ever heard. Tgeorgescu (talk) 16:35, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

I understand your idea and I am confident to obey WP:CHOPSY. I trust in commitment of scientific consensus that what Wikipedia want, and I have to thank you for your teaching. However your message is irrelevant in accordance with editor actions. You have to notify me as I do wrong with the policy and guideline. I haven't edit Gospel of John. Your message intimidate me in sense. Anyway, I will accept your basic suggestion here please. Thanks. The Supermind (talk) 16:47, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Save edits as drafts?

Is there any sort of tool or feature that will let me save edits as drafts?

I sometimes start editing a page then realise it's going to take me longer to finish the edit than I planned. I would like to be able to just automatically save it to sandbox or something so I can come back to it. Right now I just copy-paste into my sandbox but it feels like there ought to be a simpler way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Popcornfud (talk • contribs)

@Popcornfud: You can just publish your edits on the page you're working on and leave an edit summary describing that you're making a partial edit. (Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four keyboard tildes like this: ~~~~. Or, you can use the [ reply ] button, which automatically signs posts.) —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:20, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Doesn't work for the situations I'm talking about, unfortunately - specifically ones that would leave the page as an unfinished mess. Popcornfud (talk) 17:23, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Are you working with templates? That's the most likely scenario I can think of that would leave an unfinished mess. If you are, you could work on the template in one of your subpages then transfer it over when it's done. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:26, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I would suggest either saving them locally on your device (clipboard/notepad feature or whatever you may have) or saving the edit in your personal sandbox on-wiki. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:29, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

OK so it sounds like based on these replies the thing I'm asking for doesn't exist. Thanks both. Popcornfud (talk) 18:12, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

@Popcornfud: Copy the text to Notepad or a similar text editor. You can always click edit and replace the text with your draft to preview, but don't need to publish. Then as you make changes, you simply copy the updated text back to Notepad again. Just be careful that you don't overwrite other people's (or bots') subsequent edits with your new text. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:30, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, yes, but this is exactly what I've been doing for years - pasting into another doc or a sandbox. I was asking if there was an automated way to do this. Popcornfud (talk) 19:47, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

@Popcornfud: It shouldn't be automated, such as putting the current text into some sort of cache for you to edit, since you might accidentally overwrite something you weren't supposed to, depending on how frequently the article is being edited. Even frequently editing the Teahouse or Help Desk gives me numerous edit conflict alerts that I have to address. Using old school manual notepad or sandbox methods are the best ways. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)}

@Popcornfud: - you can also use the {{in use}} template – to tell others not to edit while that shows, to minimize edit conflicts. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:54, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Uploadin Error

I am trying to create a page for the website and want to add a logo but when I click on upload file it shows the error "Failed to load the configuration for file uploads to the foreign file repository." How to solve this issue please help me — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shoaibraza134 (talk • contribs) 18:03, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

@Shoaibraza134: Your draft article for Wikipedia Draft:Cuzy Man is completely inappropriate for the site. I wouldn't worry about uploading any images - it will never be approved. You'll want to read this: WP:YOURFIRSTARTICLE. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:35, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

to challenge an image

I tried to follow the instructions at Template:Di-no permission but the File has no edit button. (Or has my editing privilege been limited??)

The image in question is File:Oldenborg Stamtræ.png. It appears to be composed of multiple scans from the book credited in the caption (which I have); but is tagged as "own work". Does stitching together pieces of scans make it "own work"? —Tamfang (talk) 18:53, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Tamfang, The image is on Wikimedia Commons, so you need to select "View on Commons" to see commons:File:Oldenborg_Stamtræ.png and follow the procedure in Commons:Deletion requests. TSventon (talk) 19:24, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks; I have done so.

Resolved

—Tamfang (talk) 20:10, 19 April 2021 (UTC)