Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2021 September 23

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September 23

non-sexist language for back when all competitors were men?

Some articles on the early days of the World Chess Championship use sexist language. For instance World_Chess_Championship#Official_champions_before_FIDE_(1886–1946) says: "if a player thought he was strong enough, he (or his friends) would find financial backing for a match purse and challenge the reigning world champion. If he won, he would become the new champion." Now due to a variety of reasons no woman challenged for the world championship or even came close to doing so during that era. (The first instance of a woman even seriously competing near the top level seems to be Vera Menchik in 1929, she was probably in the top 100 in the world, but not close to being a world championship challenger). But still, the language "grates" for me. And in chess (unlike many physical sports), a female world champion challenger was (and is) at least a theoretical possibility.

So my question: is it appropriate to change "he/his" to "they/their" in the sentence above, even though it is about 1886-1946 when all the people it refers to were men? Adpete (talk) 00:10, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

I'd say changing to singular they is the best approach when talking about unknown individuals (such as the competitors of a sport, or the players of a game), so changing here would be appropriate. You will find many a editors who are against using singular they, though, especially in this context. My advice is to be bold and change it; you might be reverted, and then will have to discuss with the editors and see if people agree with the change. Isabelle ^🔔 00:17, 23 September 2021 (UTC) P.S.: I'd advice not calling editors "sexist" though, or the language they might've used or still use. Isabelle ^🔔 00:18, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

IMO, if and when a female challenger arises, that would be the time to change the language. Until then, it's been 100% male, so why obfuscate? Political correctness should only go so far. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:08, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

I mildly disagree with Clarityfiend. Cf's point may be valid when stating what did happen: all the contenders were male. But Adpete is considering text about what might have happened. There might have been a female challenger to Morphy (sure, there wasn't), and the explanation of the process should use gender-neutral language. Maproom (talk) 07:26, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

I think the problem is mainly solved by a rephrase. Here is an edit I did to another article: "matches were privately organized between the champion and challenger, and the challenger became the new World Champion if he won." [1] By moving the mention of issuing the challenge to elsewhere, it now doesn't use the pronoun until it refers to actual challengers (rather than potential challengers), where I think "he" is ok, and in fact "they" would read a little oddly (again, bearing in mind this is the period 1886–1946). Adpete (talk) 00:57, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

when was the site last updated?

when was the site last updated? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:1BC0:27C0:A9E1:3D50:DB6B:5AD7 (talk) 03:27, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

06:04 (UTC) Firefangledfeathers (talk) 03:30, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia (the site as a whole) is usually being updated several times per second. Click on the "recent changes" link on the left-had sidebar to see this. To see when a particular article was last updated click on the "view history" tab on the top tab bar of the article. -Arch dude (talk) 07:29, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

The bottom of wiki pages say "This page was last edited on ..." If you want the information to cite Wikipedia then see Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:40, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

There's an interesting visualization of Wikipedia:Recent changes at http://listen.hatnote.com/ that shows when Wikipedia articles are updated (but not talk pages or pages like the Help desk). GoingBatty (talk) 17:15, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Does a method or script to prune my watchlist exist?

I have ~2500 pages on my Watchlist and it's my main point of entrance to Wikipedia. There is another user who is very active on Wikipedia using the AutoWikiBrowser and adds/edits categories a lot. This is great, the work they do is great! However, my Watchlist often fills up with their edits that can't be excluded with any of the checkboxes that the Watchlist tool has available, to the best of my knowledge. I have the "page categorization" box checked, but it doesn't catch these.

I'd like to know if there's a way to either 1) not see edits made by this user, or 2) not see edits made using AutoWikiBrowser. I saw this discussion from a while ago which indicates that this is maybe a thing that could be scripted, but I am not a scripter and I'm not sure where I'd look for such a thing (and that link is long since dead). Any suggestions? My goal is to make my Watchlist more manageable by cutting about 75% of the AutoWikiBrowser edits made by this person. The person is doing a great job and I don't want to otherwise curtail their work, just slim down my Watchlist. Thanks for any advice. Jessamyn (talk) 03:46, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

@Jessamyn: The table at Wikipedia:User_scripts/List#Watchlist describes several scripts that tweak the watchlist display. User:Evad37/Watchlist-hideAWB may be the one you need. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:48, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, appreciate the help. Jessamyn (talk) 15:32, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

@John of Reading: That was exactly perfect, thanks so much! Jessamyn (talk) 15:36, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Remove "Draft:" from the title of a page

I created a page and it has "draft:" in front of the page title and I'm not sure how to fix it. Can anyone help with this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AuzburgerWRM (talk • contribs) 06:39, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

You would need to take the article to WP:AFC, but the draft in its current form would have little chance of being accepted into mainspace. It's almost entirely sourced to primary sources, and is very promotional. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 06:47, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Holland Healthcare Inc. GoingBatty (talk) 17:21, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

@AuzburgerWRM: If you work for Holland Healthcare or have any other conflict of interest, you must declare it on your talk page. Also see WP:NCORP, Help:Your first article, and WP:SURNAME. GoingBatty (talk) 17:21, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

What is considered published?

Is there a precise definition of publication? There is a speech being given in a few weeks regarding an article I wrote, the Proseminar in Homophile Studies. I have the transcript but will be there anyway to take down quotes, but is a speech given to the public "published", or does the transcript or a recording have to be publicly available too? If it requires a copy to be available, I wonder how to square this with dead links being acceptable. Urve (talk) 10:17, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

@Urve WP:PUBLISHED and WP:PUBLISH has some words on that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:33, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. PUBLISHED was not what I was looking for, but PUBLISH was. I'll ask them to transport it to some accessible archives if (eg) posting on YouTube or something makes them uneasy. Urve (talk) 12:38, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Why did FormalDude undo my edit on Lewis (given name) and call it "unconstructive"?

I'm autistic. It gives me trauma to see blue links on nationality names. Not only that, but it violates Wikipedia's rules of over-linking. --2A01:36D:1200:4530:B031:9D3D:4BB2:639C (talk) 10:22, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

I've left a message on their talkpage, as it also violates the manual of style for DAB pages, which says there should only be one link per line. Looks like someone else is fixing that on rest of the entries on Lewis (given name). Joseph2302 (talk) 10:29, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

(ec) Your edit was fine and in agreement with MOS:OVERLINK, specifically nationalities. In fact, I've gone further and removed more links and shortened descriptions. I don't agree that name lists must follow dab page guidelines, but the fewer bluelinks per person, the better. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:33, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm sorry for causing any trauma. Obviously this was my mistake. Thanks for fixing. ––FormalDude talk 10:37, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

How to revert back two versions

I found a page with two sets of vandalism, now two years old of more. How do I revert both? Uporządnicki (talk) 13:40, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Never mind; I found it. Should'a looked first, sorry!Uporządnicki (talk) 13:44, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Uporządnicki, if you want to do this regularly you could look at Wikipedia:Cleaning up vandalism/Tools. (Perhaps you just did.) TSventon (talk) 13:48, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

artical creation..???

how to create an artical on wikipedia??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikindia777 (talk • contribs) 13:58, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

You'll find advice at WP:Your first article. You'll also need to improve your spelling. - David Biddulph (talk) 14:04, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Wikindia777. If somebody said "I've just starting being a builder, will somebody tell me how to build a house?", most people would answer "First, spend a few years learning the building trade". A Wikipedia article isn't as big and complicated as a house, but it's much more difficult than it first appears, and most editors who try it before they have learnt how Wikipedia works have a frustrating time. I strongly advise you to spend a few months improving some of our six million existing articles and learning how Wikipedia works before you try this. --ColinFine (talk) 15:13, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

A 2O needed

Hello, I'd appreciate it if someone could have a look over the image dispute at Insulate Britain protests? I'm not convinced by the uploader's explanation for the images, but am also not the most familiar regarding image copyright rules. Thanks, Pahunkat (talk) 16:53, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

What dispute? There is nothing at Talk:Insulate_Britain_protests. Don't engage in an edit war. If you have a copyright question you can ask at WP:MCQ RudolfRed (talk) 17:31, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

The questions seem to be on another user's talkpage. I have tagged some of the images on Commons for speedy deletion, as they are blatant copies of images from other sources. But apparently someone on Commons has reverted it.... They're obviously just copying images off Getty and newspapers, but it's Commons' problem to delete them. I'm not getting involved anymore, when idiots on Commons won't speedy delete them. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:40, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Google index not done

Hi I have created one article on Wikipedia: India Data Portal. But I cannot find this on google search. Please write to me why I am not seein this article in Goohle search.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Pramit4isb (talk • contribs)

Because there is a 30-day or NPP grace period on that, whichever comes first. This is intentional and is designed to blunt SEO. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 18:11, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

It's actually 90 days, or until it's reviewed. But this article looks like promotional spam anyway. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:20, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

And I'm pretty sure the user also needs to make a WP:Paid editing disclosure, looking at their username. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:21, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

"Best known for"

Hi, is there a policy or a consensus around the use of the language "best known for" in biographies? I am pretty sure that I saw something at some point but I can't find it for the life of me. Thanks. JBchrch talk 18:26, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Not answering your question directly, but the phrase does crop up in a sock farm at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Best known for IP and a long-term abuser at Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Best known for IP. - David Biddulph (talk) 19:41, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't know about policy or consensus directly commenting on the issue, but I think it's very POV language. At minimum I usually take out the "best". DonIago (talk) 20:10, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Check the source first (often there is none), and if it says "Best known for," then use it. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 20:33, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

How to track a rename request

Resolved

— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 21:05, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello! So I put in a rename request using the one that requires a confirmed email and I"m wondering if there's anyway I can track it's status. If not would it be acceptable for me to make a new request at WP:CHU/S ― Blaze The Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#0001} 18:30, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello I am Xavier Tassin creator of GeoFs flight simulator,

I just wanted to say it will not let me edit my own information, correction it will, but it deletes it why, I have all the citations right, the change was made to the page about my game GeoFs web-page, and I said my new callsighn was Xavier001 so there would be no misconception among my fans yours sincerely Xavier Tassin, GeoFs creator ceo — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xavier Tassin (talk • contribs) 22:16, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Xavier Tassin, Wikipedia is not a venue for communicating with fans like on social media. It's just an online encyclopedia.--Quisqualis (talk) 00:31, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

@Xavier Tassin: Hi there! As creator of GeoFS, you have a conflict of interest (COI) with editing the Wikipedia article GeoFS. You should declare your COI on your user page, and not directly edit the article. Instead, you may suggest improvements on the article talk page, or use the Wikipedia:Edit Request Wizard. Be sure to include reliable published sources, if possible. Hope this helps, and happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 02:03, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

An old Wiki page that is gone?

There used to be a wonderful Wiki page for Holly Ornstein Carter. Can it be reinstated? — Preceding unsigned comment added by HollyBYkids (talk • contribs) 22:31, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

@HollyBYkids: Greetings, and welcome. I'm not finding a past or present article or draft, wonderful or otherwise, on Holly Ornstein Carter. The article Holly Carter exists, but this is about a different person from the executive director of BYkids to which I presume you are referring. I'm not an administrator and therefore do not have access to deleted content, but if the article had existed in some form, there's a good chance I could still find evidence that it had once existed, but I'm coming up empty. --Finngall ^talk 23:59, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

@HollyBYkids: I'm an administrator and haven't found signs of such a page. The closest title match I can find in deleted articles is the unrelated Olly Carter. There was an article at BYKids which mentioned her a single day in 2017. Another article without the mention was deleted in 2019. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:08, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

@HollyBYkids: To answer the original question with respect to BYKids, as the most recent incarnation of the article was deleted per WP:PROD, it could theoretically be undeleted by request at the appropriate noticeboard, but this wouldn't exempt it from being nominated for deletion by a more formal process if others feel that BYKids doesn't meet our notability standards for organizations. Further, there was a suspicion raised back then that the article creator was connected with the organization--we strongly discourage editing by people with such a connection for conflict of interest reasons. I hope this helps. --Finngall ^talk 00:38, 24 September 2021 (UTC)