Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2022 September 6

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September 6

[[#CITEREF|]] Related Usage Questions

If anyone knows for sure, please reply. There is no reply on Korean Wikipedia, so I'm posting a question here. I think, An error related to novichok(KorWiki) has occurred in the Novichok documentation. This is the 1st question - How to use #CITEREF?

This is the 2nd question - In the Template:Harvard citation, it is referenced in Template:Sfn with the parameter ref=harv.

i think the 'harv' is a group name in 'references'.

What is the internal mechanism? i cann't understand Lua, Please explain with wiki syntex

thanks 222.117.225.233 (talk) 00:24, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi there! I see that a user has updated the article so the #CITEREF errors no longer appear. However, while reference 1 now says "Tucker 2006", I would expect that the article would have a complete reference for this as well. Since Tucker, Albats, and Gupta are only used once in the article, you might even want to replace the {{Harvnb}} with regular citation templates with the complete details about each reference. Hope this helps! GoingBatty (talk) 00:38, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

The role of "#CITEREF".

Is it a command to execute "anchor function" in the document?

i think The second is an anchor link to the parameter "ref" of the template "Book Citation".

This is what I want to know. 222.117.225.233 (talk) 02:42, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

At ko.wiki, |ref=harv in a cs1 citation template ({{cite book}}, {{cite journal}}, etc) will cause the template to create a CITEREF anchor ID with a namelist taken from |last1= through |last4= and a year taken from |date= or |year=. {{citation}} creates the anchor ID automatically so does not require |ref=harv. To link to that anchor ID you can use {{sfn}} or {{harv}} (or one of the {{harv}} variants) or you can manually create a link to the anchor ID with [[#CITEREF<namelist><year>|<link label>]].

Example book citation:

{{cite book |title=Title |last=Brown |last2=Black |last3=Green |date=September 2022}}

Brown; Black; Green (September 2022). Title.

That template creates an anchor ID: CITEREFBrownBlackGreen2022. Link to the anchor with a {{harv}} variant:

{{harvnb|Brown|Black|Green|2022}} → Brown, Black & Green 2022

or manually:

[[#CITEREFBrownBlackGreen2022|Brown, Black, & Green 2022]] → Brown, Black, & Green 2022

At en.wiki, |ref=harv is no longer supported because all cs1|2 templates automatically create an anchor ID.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:00, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Tara Lipinski talk page template

Hi, so on the talk page of Tara Lipinski, I put in the A note template. I would like it to be the same color as the rest of the templates. Could someone please either explain to me how that would be done, or do it for me? Perhaps I'm using the wrong template? Help, way too technical for my pay grade! ;) Thanks in advance. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 02:57, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

@Figureskatingfan, I am not an expert on this but try {{notice}}. It automatically turns orange when on a talk page. StarryGrandma (talk) 17:06, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

@StarryGrandma, hey it worked! Thanks so much for your help. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:06, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Is an exception possible where drafts can link into mainspace?

So I know generally speaking drafts cannot be linked for mainspace articles, but could a like a WikiProject talk page discussion or some community discussion make exceptions to that rule? So basically, a few months ago, I started Draft:List of F4 and EF4 tornadoes and 9 other editors have helped create it. Ran into an issue where it was like 10-15% done, and it was nearly 200,000 bytes. So I just broke it up into lists by decades (in draftspace still). One section was complete, the Draft:List of F4 and EF4 tornadoes (2020–present) and another user User talk:98.116.128.17 messaged on the talk page suggesting it should be moved into mainspace as it is ready. I just sped through and got the parent draft, Draft:List of F4 and EF4 tornadoes, ready to be in mainspace as well. The problem is, all the other decade articles are not ready for mainspace. The closest is the 2010s which is around 40-50% done. If you look at the parent draft, all the decades are listed in their respective sections (modeled after Lists of tornadoes and tornado outbreaks), but again, the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00, and 10s decade articles are and will be in draftspace for a while. Is is possible to move Draft:List of F4 and EF4 tornadoes and Draft:List of F4 and EF4 tornadoes (2020–present) into mainspace, as they are ready, but leave the drafts linked to the parent Draft:List of F4 and EF4 tornadoes article? (Pinging WP Weather members as well since this is like a weird question: ChessEric, TornadoLGS, Timcigar12.)

Really hoping that question made sense. Elijahandskip (talk) 03:10, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I did a quick look around, and I'm not actually sure where the policy or guideline is that goes against linking from mainspace to draftspace, though I don't expect it's appropriate, considering redirects from mainspace to draftspace are subject to speedy deletion. If anyone could link to the relevant guideline page(s) that would be helpful. For anyone commenting who is unfamiliar with the subject matter we're talking about a list (or group of lists) that would contain more than a thousand entries, which was the reason for the split. TornadoLGS (talk) 03:54, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

You're looking for MOS:DRAFTNOLINK. —Cryptic 04:28, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Well I guess that answers that question. Now time to figure out what would be best, but that can be a different discussion instead of here. Elijahandskip (talk) 16:35, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

how do i add my a place and what are the requirements

I want to add westside auto wholesales to Wikipedia - can someone please tell me how and what to achieve this - is there like a guideline doc on what we need and whats required - just looking for some guidance on it PerthDigitalEdge (talk) 05:32, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm guessing that it is Westside Auto Wholesale in Perth, Western Australia. This doesn't seem to meet the general notability guideline for its own article, and there would also be a conflict of interest if you were involved in it in some way. It is important to realise that Wikipedia is not a business directory, and that articles about businesses can only be added if they are notable enough.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:18, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:03, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Please see WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not a business directory. It is an encyclopaedia, with well-referenced neutral articles about subjects which meet its criteria for notability. Unless several people unconnected with your business have published in-depth material about your business in reliable sources, Wikipedia will not take note of your business. ColinFine (talk) 12:17, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

footnotes

I read the template page Template:Ref label but can't figure out why the link to the footnote a on Taras Shevchenko doesn't work.

And i don't understand the error message "500 No Host option provided" that this validator produces: https://validator.w3.org/check?uri=%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTaras_Shevchenko&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0 --Espoo (talk) 10:07, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

The link to the footnote works for me. Are you sure that "Metrical books" is meant to appear there? By the sense, I imagine it means something like parish register, but "metrical book" is not a phrase in English. ColinFine (talk) 12:23, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

The error message is reporting an invalid URI for the page you want validated. It looks like you missed https: before the //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_Shevchenko (encoded as %2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTaras_Shevchenko). Bazza (talk) 12:39, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

The link works on my laptop but not in Chrome for Android, neither in mobile nor desktop view.

Yes, "metrical books" is obviously an incorrect verbatim translation, and there are more incomprehensible things and other problems like that.

Help:Markup validation has incorrect directions that specifically say to leave out "https:":

To check the HTML for a Wikipedia article XYZ, visit the service's home page and enter the text "//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYZ". --Espoo (talk) 18:03, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Fixed (by removing the invalid instruction). Bazza (talk) 18:58, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Roundhay School

I have added a black and white old photo which should be at the top left hand side of the History section. It is too far down the article. Please alter if you can. Thanks. 49.198.41.28 (talk) 11:20, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Moving it to the top of the history section would be easy but before I do that, don't you think that the image would be better if cropped to remove the text and leave just the B&W photo? I can do that using the crop tool on Commons. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:31, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

But be aware of MOS:SANDWICH which is likely as the infobox for that article is long. Bazza (talk) 11:58, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Help Me

I want help for editing and want mentor to guide me ? FNNWiki (talk) 12:37, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

FNNWiki If you have specific questions, please ask. You may be interested in Adopt a User. 331dot (talk) 12:39, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Try starting with reading WP:TUTORIAL. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:19, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Maths

I do not understand maths — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.113.132.228 (talk) 14:31, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

This is not a general help desk, but a place to ask questions about using Wikipedia. Please ask a teacher or parent/guardian about math. 331dot (talk) 14:34, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Start by reading our Mathematics article to get an idea of how all the parts of the field fit together. Then, look for a good tutorial site on the web that matches your current level. -Arch dude (talk) 16:37, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

New Page?

Hello, there is a company Zego.com who are a huge growing company without a wikipedia information page. How do I go about requeting a page similar to Revolut 2A02:C7C:6E04:A700:6837:DFB2:DBE2:F3B7 (talk) 15:02, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not have "information pages", it has articles. Those articles summarize what independent reliable sources say about the topic. Not every company in a field merits a Wikipedia article; typically a company must be well established to receive the coverage necessary for a Wikipedia article. You can make a request at Requested Articles, but the backlog there is severe to the point of uselessness. Do you have an association with this company? 331dot (talk) 15:08, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia has articles on subjects that meet our definition of notable. See WP:NCORP. If "huge and growing" has not yet resulted in articles in the general press, it's not notable. Only a small percentage of companies meet this criterion. If you are sure you can convince other Wikipedia editors that the company meets this criterion, proceed to WP:YFA. Don't pay someone to write an article for you, as they are mostly scammers and we WILL delete the article unless your company is notable. DO declare your association with the company if there is one. -Arch dude (talk) 16:46, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Editing

How do I create an article on Wikipedia? AContributor2077 (talk) 17:27, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

See Help:Your first article. Be aware that your article needs to demonstrate notability of the subject, through citations to significant coverage in published reliable sources. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:34, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

How to cite a new author work and work that contains punctuation

FYI

 – Splitting sections. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:08, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I am trying to figure out the best way to do a lot of citations, so please let me know if this is not correct for Mez Breeze jjust announced work: [Por]TrAIts: #AI Characters + Their Microstories [Book 1]’ (2022) . This book is a collaboration between myself [human] x DALL-E2 [AI]. "This project explores the reality of AI-genned art [+ its fusion with the English/code-hybrid language termed Mezangelle] and its application as the foundation of a human-AI alliance." from artist's statement. THANK YOU LoveElectronicLiterature (talk) 19:00, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

References

@LoveElectronicLiterature: Hi there! Using your own work as a citation can be seen as self-promotion and a conflict of interest, and may not be acceptable as a source (see WP:NOTPROMO, WP:COI, and WP:SELFPUB). If you think a citation to your work would be an appropriate addition to a Wikipedia article, I suggest you make a proposal on the article's talk page to get consensus from other editors. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 22:14, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

LoveElectronicLiterature, if you are Deena Larson (as your user page says), then you're not Mez Breeze; and so I think that GoingBatty and/or I has/have misunderstood something. ¶ A reference that's a "bare URL" is never good. Also specify the author(s) (if known), the page title, the website title, the date (if known), and the access date. ¶ I quote the page you cite: ‘[Por]TrAIts: AI Characters + Their Microstories [Book 1]’ is a collaboration between Mez Breeze [human] x DALL-E2 [AI]. This project explores the reality of AI-generated art [+ its fusion with the English/code-hybrid language termed Mezangelle] and its application as the foundation of a human-AI alliance. NB That's precisely as I read it. Every one of those square brackets is in the original; none shows any editorial interpolation or similar by me. As editorial interpolations, rewordings, etc are one of the two major uses of square brackets, the author's use of square brackets rather than plain parentheses is confusing (and for me, annoying). I'd avoid quoting that material; but if I had to quote it, I'd point out that the square brackets were in the original. Or, better, I'd regard them as a mere design affectation and replace them with parentheses. ¶ Well, what do you want to do? Do you want to quote some of what the page says, or do you want to cite it without quoting it? ¶ Methods aside, you're quoting/citing Mez Breeze's own comment on a work of hers (and doing so from a/the sales page for this work). I wonder why. What an article about the work or its creator (or human co-creator) needs is description and comment from reliable, disinterested sources, which must of course be independent of Breeze. ¶ If you have a further question, please give it a title that, unlike "Hi", indicates what it's about. -- Hoary (talk) 22:52, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. I am Deena Larsen, and I have been in the electronic literature field for a very long time. I have known of Mez Breeze's work since the early 90s. I am working on a project for all women electronic literature writers (except for me, I won't touch my page!). I just retired last month, and I have wanted to do this project for years. We have started a sub task, WP:WELW with about 14 new wikipedia editors (who also love electronic literature--we are writers and university professors mostly). I am trying to figure out the best way for our team to edit all women electronic literature writers, so I am asking lots of questions.

I see the confusion--I was trying to do a quotation from Mez Breeze on her announcement. Also, Mez has a language called Mezangelle which ascribes meaning to those brackets. So I am really confused about several things.

So the questions here are:

1. What is the policy for quoting authors about their own works? Am I allowed to say "‘[Por]TrAIts: AI Characters + Their Microstories [Book 1]’ is a collaboration between Mez Breeze [human] x DALL-E2 [AI]. This project explores the reality of AI-generated art [+ its fusion with the English/code-hybrid language termed Mezangelle] and its application as the foundation of a human-AI alliance." I understand that this is from the sales page, but this work is new enough (just came out) so the third party citations are not available yet.

2. What is the proper way to cite the work? Is this correct: "‘[Por]TrAIts: AI Characters + Their Microstories [Book 1]’ ?

3. What is the best way to explain that the brackets are part of the title? Can I unpack this as "The title of this work is in Mezangelle, which ascribes meaning to punctuation such as brackets and inline capitalization?

Thank you LoveElectronicLiterature (talk) 01:28, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Generally, Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. ColinFine (talk) 13:16, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

@LoveElectronicLiterature "Mez has a language called Mezangelle which ascribes meaning to those brackets." When you, or she, post here at the English Wikipedia, can you translate that language to English? 71.228.112.175 (talk) 00:30, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Translations are not really easy from Mezangelle. The whole point is to de-code the language. For example, [Por]TrAIts: The brackets indicate a split word, using both portraits, por (for in Spanish) and traits. Then we have a capital AI in the middle to signify that this is from an Artificial Intelligence. Etc. Etc. LoveElectronicLiterature (talk) 17:38, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

@LoveElectronicLiterature All submissions to the English Wikipedia need to be written in English. I'm not sure how this policy actually applies to this title that's in a made-up language. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 08:47, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

There are many made up languages, and that should not prevent these from being in Wikipedia. If you are being strict about Wikipedia only containing English words, then we can not allow anything other than English words. This means that we will need to delete all mathematical formulae, pictures, maps, symbols of any kind, etc. If you are actually serious about the implications of not allowing a title like "‘[Por]TrAIts: AI Characters + Their Microstories [Book 1]’" then let us discuss this in a technological forum and agree on a policy and take this discussion out of the help desk. LoveElectronicLiterature (talk) 13:25, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

References

If the only source you have is the author's own statements, sales pages, and the like, then this is not notable enough and has no place in Wikipedia. See WP:TOOSOON. --Orange Mike | Talk 03:47, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

If you're writing about one person and her work, LoveElectronicLiterature, and in the short term [Por]TrAIts: AI Characters + Their Microstories [Book 1] (here, let's call it PAICM1) only gets a short paragraph within the article, I think it's OK to source the paragraph to her own sales page for this. So I disagree with one interpretation (perhaps a mistaken one) of what Orangemike writes above. But I agree that the article as a whole needs much better sources than this. Let's agree for now that your source merits use. That page says says: ‘[Por]TrAIts: AI Characters + Their Microstories [Book 1]’ is a collaboration between Mez Breeze [human] x DALL-E2 [AI]. This project explores the reality of AI-generated art [+ its fusion with the English/code-hybrid language termed Mezangelle] and its application as the foundation of a human-AI alliance. And yes, you can have an article say exactly that, if saying it is helpful to the reader. I think (without bothering to consult the "Manual of style") that its length is on the short side for a block quotation; however, it has such distracting punctuation that if I were to quote it I'd present it as a block. Of course the quotation would demand a reference, but let's put that aside. If I just wanted to mention it (as in "Breeze followed this memoir with PAICM1, published as a PDF file" or similar), then perhaps

. . . blah blah blah Breeze followed this memoir with [Por]TrAIts: AI Characters + Their Microstories [Book 1], published as a PDF file. Blah blah blah. . . .

Although of course you needn't and indeed shouldn't keep repeating this explanation of the brackets and seemingly bizarre capitalization. Once is enough. (Incidentally, note my use of the "nowiki" tag.) -- Hoary (talk) 04:25, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, this is just one bullet in a much larger article about Mez Breeze, and in the coming months and years, we hope to expand that article. I think the easiest thing to do at the moment is to just list the actual title of her new 2022 work with a link and a date. I do appreciate understanding the thought process and approaches, and I will keep that in mind as we start this (ad)ventUre. LoveElectronicLiterature (talk) 21:09, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

References

Language edition Wikipedia article

How can we cite for language edition Wikipedia to create a page? 196.188.244.212 (talk) 19:01, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a reliable source, so you should not use it as a reference for another article. If you are translating the article to English, see Help:Translation for how to provide attribution for the translation. RudolfRed (talk) 19:03, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Alphabethization of names with Van, De, O' etc.

In the native languages (Dutch, French, Irish, etc.) people's family names are listed as Van de Velde (NOT Velde, van de). This causes difficulties when searching for such names. Does Wikipedia have a policy on such, and is it possible to change the listing of a family name of a person listed and how to do that? Thanks Ghislaine De Regge Gderegge (talk) 19:46, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

@Gderegge: This simple question has a complicated multipart answer. First: does Wikipedia have a preferred sort order for names with prefixes? Answer: I don't know. Next: can you display the name with the prefix but sort on the base name? Answer: yes, but it depends on where. In the categories, you provide the "default sort" name in your article and the article name is sorted by your preferred sort: see WP:DEFAULTSORT. In sortable tables, you can use "data-sort-value" to force your preferred sort. See Help:Sort -Arch dude (talk) 20:53, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks so much--I will proceed as you suggest.

Ghislaine De Regge Gderegge (talk) 21:01, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Gderegge, does Wikipedia:Categorization of people#Ordering names in a category help? Apparently the Dutch and the Belgians treat names starting in van differently. TSventon (talk) 21:22, 6 September 2022 (UTC)