Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 April 11

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April 11

Roper Center ipoll use

I have found a source that I have institutional access to, but I am not sure whether its data is useable on Wikipedia. It has historic Gallup polling data which could be added to articles such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_1968_United_States_presidential_election, but its terms of use seem to prohibit the publishing of data, and I am not sure if that would preclude putting results from historic Gallup polls in our articles (https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/ipoll/study/31087736 Here is an example of a poll from the site). What do other people think about using this source? (If this would fit better at RSN or elsewhere, please feel free to move it. .) Jackattack1597 (talk) 00:16, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@Jackattack1597 The online source you refer to has a digital object identifier, namely doi:10.25940/ROPER-31087736, so it can readily be used as a citation (for example in {{cite journal}}) in a Wikipedia article. I'm not clear what useful information readers here would use that citation to vefify but that is for you to decide when you add the summary in your own words. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:49, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Abusive user

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

There is a user on here that has deleted my page. They seem to be only requesting page deletions. What can be done about this? KnowItGirl67 (talk) 01:35, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

KnowItGirl67, do you mean Liz, who deleted your creation Draft:Nickie Kane? But she doesn't just request page deletions; she actually deletes them. (Not just deletions: she also created the article Sail plan, for example.) She deleted your draft because it looked like an advert. How was this "abusive"? -- Hoary (talk) 02:19, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Looking like an advert doesn't mean it is an advert. I asked for help on how to meet guidelines then you delete it. How is this useful. Seems more like trolling. Wouldn't it make more sense to advise people then offer them an opportunity to fix it. KnowItGirl67 (talk) 02:31, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

KnowItGirl67, it's not the creator of an article who decides whether or not it's an advert. But let's suppose for a moment that it's not an advert. Looking at the deleted draft, I don't see how its subject satisfies Wikipedia:Notability (people); and failure to satisfy that would lead to deletion. -- Hoary (talk) 02:55, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

KnowItGirl67, I am an administrator and I agree with Hoary. I noticed the draft was deleted as "Unambiguous advertising or promotion". Then, I read the deleted draft and noticed that it was "Unambiguous advertising or promotion", and see no convincing evidence that this person is notable. Now, I see that you have recreated the draft without improving the references. That was not a good idea. Cullen328 (talk) 04:13, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Maybe you should learn to read. The references were changed. Maybe legal action against this site will be needed> This volunteers are bordering on harassment and cyber bullying. I actually worked with a volunteer who did act like an immature child. They help me create the new draft. KnowItGirl67 (talk) 01:09, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

@KnowItGirl67 Tread carefully. Legal threats are among the things that can get you blocked in a New York Minute. See WP:NLT. These people are trying to help you understand why your draft was deleted. Take a deep breath and read the relevant guidelines. WP:N, WP:GNG, WP:NOPROMO... -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:14, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

@KnowItGirl67 P.S. I've added a template with a number of links to your talk page. Hopefully you may find some of them useful. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:20, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Making treats and harassment is against Wikipedia policy. You won't be able to hide when you are subpoenaed. KnowItGirl67 (talk) 01:26, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Violating your own policy is usually not a good idea. KnowItGirl67 (talk) 01:28, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

List all articles I've made in a category?

Hi, I'd like to get a quick list of all the contributions I've made in a given category, so that I or someone else can audit them in manageable chunks. For example, philosophy, religion, or politics .. each with its subcategories.

Is there any way to do that here: https://xtools.wmflabs.org/topedits/en.wikipedia.org/Jaredscribe/0 Jaredscribe (talk) 05:56, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

How to download my Userspace

Hi, I have a bunch of User subpages with study notes and essays. Is there a quick way to download them all at once, with my User and Talk page, other than as HTML? I'd rather get them as wikimarkup without having to manually copy paste. Thanks, Jaredscribe (talk) 05:59, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Do These instructions help? --Jayron32 11:40, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Edward VIII

Ref number 40 is missing the publisher - please help. I'm sorry. 175.38.42.62 (talk) 06:16, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

I've fixed it. D. Appleton wasn't the author, that was the publisher. I also added the editor. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:42, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm trying to post an article about our organization and it's showing

I'm trying to post an article about our organization and it's showing error. Cprdbd (talk) 06:26, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi Cprdbd. Besides your post above, your only other edit so far was to create User:Cprdbd/sandbox. Were you perhaps trying to post an article using a different account? Anyway, before you press forward with your attempts to create an article, I strongly suggest you take the time to read through the following pages: Wikipedia:The answer to life, the universe, and everything, Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies), Wikipedia:Conflict of interest and Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not here to tell the world about your noble cause. In order for anyone to create an article about your organization, it's going to first need to be demonstrated that your organization is Wikipedia:Notable; otherwise, such an article is unlikely going to survive for very long even if someone should create it. Moreover, even if your organization is notable, you or anyone else connected to it might not be the best person to try and create such an article, and neither you nor your organization will have any final editorial control over what's written. All content will need to be in accordance with relevant Wikipedia policies and guidelines, and not with what your organization might want. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:43, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Cprdbd. It looks like you triggered the edit filter eleven times, and that you were repeatedly trying to edit Gandhi Medical College, Bhopal to hijack that article and transform it into something else. That type of behavior is not permitted. What are you trying to accomplish here? Because so far, you are going about it the wrong way. Cullen328 (talk) 07:03, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Amman

The order of the monuments is not well understood and, so as not to risk making a mistake, I don't intend to change the order of the monuments (for information: I left the order unchanged; I only corrected the wikilinks and explained the order better, but it is the same order: Amman. JackkBrown (talk) 15:13, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: Hi there! Did you have a question? Usually, the best place to ask a question about a particular article is the article's talk page (e.g. Talk:Amman). GoingBatty (talk) 15:35, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

The order of monuments on that picture cannot be described in clockwise order, so I changed it to top to bottom, left to right order. Now it should be clear which monument is which. Random person no 362478479 (talk) 03:08, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I am wanting to publish my Draft: Adam Sandoval

FYI

 – Added section header. GoingBatty (talk) 15:33, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

I am wanting to publish my Draft: Adam Sandoval and I've had problems with publishing it, can someone look over my draft and advise me on what i need to change to make it publishable? Jamesnewton.indycollab (talk) 15:19, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Dont answer this, my draft was deleted so I have to redo it quickly Jamesnewton.indycollab (talk) 15:27, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@Jamesnewton.indycollab A small draft now exists at Draft:Adam Sandoval but there are two key problems that make it unsuitable for Wikipedia in its current form. One is that it cites no sources for the information, so it fails the verification policy, which is especially bad for biographies of living people. Please read these pages and then consider how you will show that Sandoval is notable by Wikipedia's standards. You have indicated elsewhere that you are Sandoval's agent, so it is important that you read WP:PAID and comply with its requirements. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:51, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

when I cite sources to pass the verification policy, would i add the sources in a references section and link them to paragraphs? Jamesnewton.indycollab (talk) 16:02, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, the policy for biographies is that they must be inline to the text. See WP:REFB for some guidance. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:06, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Edits to a page

Hello, I tried making changes two weeks ago to a page that displays inaccurate information and all edits were reverted within a matter of ten minutes. Changes made were to update/adjust details and outdated information, including an outdated mission statement for a nonprofit organization called Rise Against Hunger. Revisions were labeled as promotional, but edits were provided to update inaccurate information listed.

Can someone point me in the right direction to get changes/made updated. If that's possible? Thank you! AWhitmyer (talk) 16:41, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

This edit was reverted due to issues with possible WP:COI and using promotional language rather than a neutral tone. You have already opened a thread at Talk:Rise Against Hunger which is the best place to discuss proposed changes to the article.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:49, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I'm not familiar with Wikipedia and the editing process, so I wasn't sure. I haven't received a response back on the page yet, so I'll send a follow-up on the page within the next few days. Thanks for the update! AWhitmyer (talk) 16:54, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@AWhitmyer In your edit summary you wrote "Changes on behalf of Rise Against Hunger" which strongly suggests a conflict of interest (COI). If you have a COI you have to follow a number of important rules. Among other things you have to declare your COI and you should not edit articles for which you have a COI directly. Instead you should post edit requests on the article talk pages so that an independent editor can decide whether or not the requested edits should be made. You should read all of the following:

• Wikipedia:Conflict of interest
• Wikipedia:Plain_and_simple_conflict_of_interest_guide
• Wikipedia:Edit_requests

Random person no 362478479 (talk) 17:20, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Gotcha, I see. At this point, I can't really make edits since I'm tied to the organization. I wasn't aware of that aspect when I initially made those first round of edits. I'll take a look at these articles. Thanks for sharing the links! AWhitmyer (talk) 17:30, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

AWhitmyer, I suggest that you read Wikipedia:Avoid mission statements. Cullen328 (talk) 17:55, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Creating a separate article from another one

Hi there,

I have a question about trying to create a new article from an existing one. Basically, I was thinking of creating a new article for the Mike Ilitch School of Business at Wayne State University, but when I try to create the article, it always shows it's already linked to the broader university article. Is there a way I can fix this and have an article that is separated from the university page? Please let me know. Thanks in advance. Losipov (talk) 17:27, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Help:Redirect explains how redirects work. When you click on Mike Ilitch School of Business it takes you to the Wayne State University page. If you go to the top of THAT page you should see the text (Redirected from Mike Ilitch School of Business) if you click THAT LINK at the top of Wayne State University, it will take you to the redirect page directly and from there, you can edit the page like a normal page. I hope that helps, it really only makes sense once you do it yourself. Good luck. --Jayron32 18:10, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict)@Losipov: That link, Mike Ilitch School of Business is a redirect page. If you create Draft:Mike Ilitch School of Business and then submit it for review (see WP:YFA), the reviewer who accepts your draft will replace that redirect with your article. HOWEVER, please first ensure that your subject is separately notable, as notability of the university does not by itself mean that the school is notable, and notability is the only absolute requirement for a Wikipedia article. -Arch dude (talk) 18:18, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@Arch dude @Jayron32 Thank you for the replies. I created a draft and submitted it for review using the one Arch dude posted. It's very incomplete right now but I imagine others can work on it as well. I did see on the bottom of the submission that it said to ensure it is not a copy of the redirect. Where would be the appropriate forum to this discuss this specific issue? I didn't copy/paste from the other article, but I want to be sure there aren't problems. Thanks again! Losipov (talk) 19:27, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@Losipov No need to worry about the redirect as your draft is not a copy and the messages are just to alert reviewers to the situation. Your main issue will be to show that the business school is notable as defined here, which it hardly does currently. Also, WP:MISSION advises editors to avoid mission statements, for the reasons described in that linked essay. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:22, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

C r e

what is the bible 41.79.122.233 (talk) 20:21, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

• There really is no such thing; there are different bibles. Drmies (talk) 20:22, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Oslo and Amman

Can someone please put the monuments of these two cities in order? Oslo and Amman; I don't know these places well enough. JackkBrown (talk) 20:53, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: Hi there! I looked briefly at Amman and don't see a list of monuments that needs reordering. The best place to ask for assistance on a particular article is its talk page (e.g. Talk:Amman). When you post there, please be more specific about your request. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 21:05, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

GoingBatty, judging from their previous posts, I'm guessing that JackkBrown thinks that the captions on the collage image in the infobox are not right or not in the right order. Jack, there might or might not be people here who are familiar with those cities. I suggest you ask at WT:WikiProject Jordan and WT:WikiProject Norway respectively. ColinFine (talk) 21:17, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@ColinFine: Thanks for your insight. JackkBrown would still need to confirm, and then explain what criteria should be used to determine the "right" order. Oldest to newest? Tallest to shortest? Most well known to least well known? Organize by photo size? Something else? I still recommend he submit a request on the article's talk page. He could also post on the WikiProject talk page to have interested editors comment on the article talk page. GoingBatty (talk) 03:23, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

@GoingBatty: I did not explain myself well: within the "Oslo" page, the monuments are not in the order indicated in the infobox. JackkBrown (talk) 03:58, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: Thank you for the clarification. I suggest you post on Talk:Oslo with your suggestion on how to change the order of the pictures and/or the order of the captions. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 14:23, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

I corrected the image description for Amman. I found no errors in the description for Oslo. Random person no 362478479 (talk) 03:22, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

@Random person no 362478479: the order was not respected: Amman. JackkBrown (talk) 14:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

@Random person no 362478479: I corrected the caption. JackkBrown (talk) 14:46, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown your caption was wrong. Someone else already reverted it. Your order was this:

1 1 1

7 5 2

6 4 3

It should be (and now is again):

1 1 1

2 3 4

5 6 7

It is not possible to order pictures clockwise unless there are either only two rows or two columns. Here we have three rows and three columns. There are other ways of ordering that could be used here like spiralling, or serpentine, but by far the most common and simplest is top to bottom left to right where the pictures are ordered like words in English. Random person no 362478479 (talk) 18:08, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

1st century: captions

Captions cannot be changed on this page: 1st century. The dots at the end of almost all captions (except one, which is correct) must be removed, because these captions do not represent complete sentences, according to the MOS:CAPTIONS rule. JackkBrown (talk) 23:11, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

They indeed cannot be edited there, JackkBrown. However, they can be edited elsewhere, resulting in a change to the article 1st century as well. I've removed a single dot; if you examine this diff (particularly the article title), you should get the more general idea. -- Hoary (talk) 23:21, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown, when you write that these periods must be removed, you are displaying a worrisome dogmatism. The Manual of Style is a guideline, not a mandatory policy, and it says at the very beginning, It is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply. Note that there is no "must" or "mandatory" or "required" language in that guideline. Working to gradually bring articles into better compliance with the Manual of Style is a good thing. Adopting an attitude that this period "must be removed" about something as trivial as an extra period in a caption is unwise, and I encourage you to rethink your approach. Cullen328 (talk) 04:25, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown, what Cullen328 said. Also, a superfluous dot here or there is trivial. Now, when I'm in the mood to find and improve really bad writing (or to send it to AfD), I just look in the search box for "the tender age of" (complete with quotation marks). To put it politely, this is mere editorializing, and (unless within a quotation) can be removed without any damage to encyclopedic meaning. And it tends to appear together with other, hagiographic fluff that's ripe for a copyeditor's machete. -- Hoary (talk) 08:43, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Otoh, there's nothing wrong with WP:GNOMING. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:40, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, and some of @JackkBrown's other caption tweaking has been beneficial and diligently done. Bazza (talk) 09:49, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

The question would have been easier to deal with if it asked something like "how can I edit the 0s section of 1st_century?". My first reaction was to refer to WP:SOFIXIT and my second to leave the question. TSventon (talk) 09:57, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

@Cullen328: @Hoary: @TSventon: I would like to say two things: the first is that I have always thought that the Wikipedia in English language guidelines were mandatory to follow; the second is that I care a great deal about this encyclopaedia, and when a person cares a great deal about it, he or she can become overly meticulous, which is actually a good thing, but what I mean is that he or she can also become impatient with anything that is different from the guidelines; this is my case. JackkBrown (talk) 14:24, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown:, policies and guidelines are there to help improve the encyclopedia, not for their own sake. I have posted a standard welcome message as you haven't had one previously. If you click on Learn more about editing and then Policies and guidelines you will see Wikipedia actually has few strict rules, but rather is founded on five fundamental principles. Wikipedia's policies and guidelines are developed by the community to clarify these principles and describe the best way to apply them, resolve conflicts, and otherwise further our goal of creating a free and reliable encyclopedia. TSventon (talk) 14:59, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Example policy

Hey, somewhat experienced editor here. I found an article, Email storm, that has a lot of examples on it. Way too many. The policy on list size doesn't say how long lists on articles should be (unless I'm just stupid), so I don't know what examples I should keep and what to remove. I removed every example without a secondary source attached, but there's still a lot. Any help? RteeeeKed💬📖 23:33, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

The policy only says that lists should be "as short as feasible for their purpose and scope". I agree with Cullen328 that the current list on Email storm is fine lengthwise now. Random person no 362478479 (talk) 03:12, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, RteeeeKed. I see 12 examples which seems about right to me. If you believe that 12 examples is too much, then make your case at Talk:Email storm. Cullen328 (talk)