Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 April 22

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April 22

Explanation of map colors question

Hi. I am trying to properly place the caption of a map, in an infobox, that explains the meaning of its colors. It is in the article Herodian Tetrarchy, for the file Herodian tetrachy.png. According to MOS:CAPLENGTH, "Infobox images with mission insignia – no caption needed, but if there is a description of the symbolism, it should be included on the image description page." I just don't know how to do it. Any help is appreciated. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 00:38, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Thinker78: A color legend is not mission insignia. Herodian Tetrarchy looks OK to me. The image description page is commons:File:Herodian tetrachy.png. It's missing the color legend. See e.g. commons:File:NATO partnerships.svg. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:25, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

It looked ok now it looks better. Thanks for the example of NATO, I will likely apply it. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 05:25, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Football line-up

Hey, how to made these image? Tolaquangkhoi2012 (talk) 04:36, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Tolaquangkhoi2012. Happy to help, but I am not quite sure what you are asking? Are you trying to add this image to a specific article? Please advise which article. Clicking edit>Insert>image and then typing the name of the file is how one places an image in an article. Happy to help make sure its done properly. Please reply and click @ followed by my name to ensure I receive a notification from you. Thanks! MaxnaCarta (talk) 05:08, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

It's more plausible to think the OP is asking how to make an image like that with different players' names. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Tolaquangkhoi2012: It was made outside Wikipedia and uploaded as an image. SVG images have source code. The source of Media:BRA-CRC 2018-06-22.svg says "Created with Inkscape". See Inkscape. It was uploaded by S.A. Julio who has many similar images at commons:Special:ListFiles/S.A. Julio. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:35, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I will email to him Tolaquangkhoi2012 (talk) 08:31, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

• make images like this* Tolaquangkhoi2012 (talk) 08:34, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Tolaquangkhoi2012:The generic way to make a derived SVG image is to first download the free Inkscape software onto your computer and then download the image and edit it in Inkscape. Male sure you attribute the source from which you derive your modified version. If you only want to do this a few times, then just do that. However, if you think that a lot of these will be created by a lot of people, then find some folks who can help you make an easily-parameterized version of this same image. The SVG format permits this, but it is an advanced skill. Only 26 parameters are needed: 22 names and four jerseys. The folks over at Wikipedia:Graphics Lab might be able to help you or tell you where to find help. -Arch dude (talk) 19:05, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

transphobic content published by commonly referenced outlets

I've come across certain articles with parts likely considered as transphobic in the west. As an example a music album review where the writer "can't discern" if the performers are "men or women" and voices their disdain. In another article the slur "shemale" is used, referring to "switching" a character's gender.

Where to bring up my concerns? I can share the pages (elsewhere, the help desk likely isn't optimal) and have them archived on Wayback Machine . Is there any policy concerning Wikipedia-accepted publications releasing potentially hateful content?

This mainly concerns the sources for individual WikiProjects, not those of the main English Wikipedia. Some-ASCII (talk) 09:54, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Some-ASCII: Don't express concerns but expect everyone else to do a load of work to try and work what you're concerned about: you're likely to get little response. Provide some specific examples with links to their Wikipedia articles or locations and people will then know what you're referring to and be able to comment. Bazza (talk) 10:06, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Some-ASCII: We use what we call "reliable sources". I do not think we evaluate the reliability of a source based on whether or not some of its content is transphobic. We do sometimes consider a source to be unreliable for some topics but reliable for other topics. The place to ask about this would be Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. However, be careful. We cannot blacklist a source just because some of its content does not conform to your (or anyone else's) ideas about language usage. This is especially true of news sources that also publish opinion pieces. -Arch dude (talk) 19:17, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I don't per-se want the sources to be blacklisted. I'm mainly after objective discussion. Some-ASCII (talk) 12:26, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikitable in Local government areas of Victoria

After 10 years of wikipedia editing, I am still struggling with the syntax in wikitable sortable. The first table (in Greater Melbourne section) does not sort the date properly when sorted. It appears to be an older style of wikitable sortable and I am not sure how to incorporate data-sort-type=isoDate into the column header. Marcnut1996 (talk) 12:09, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Marcnut1996: The dates are made with {{start date}}. {{start date|1842|08|12|df=y}} produces: 12&nbsp;August&nbsp;1842<span style="display:none">&#160;(<span class="bday dtstart published updated">1842-08-12</span>)</span>. That is not sortable and the template has no parameter to give sortable output. If it's used then you have to give sort keys for each date. See Help:Sortable tables#Specifying a sort key for a cell. I'm not sure the template should be used there. The documentation says "for use inside other templates (or table rows) which emit microformats". PrimeHunter (talk) 13:46, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter: Thanks for the reply. I have decided to swap out {{start date}} for {{Date table sorting}} and the table now sorts the dates properly. Marcnut1996 (talk) 08:17, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Proposed Wikipedia page on E. Fred Schubert

Greetings! My nickname is Freddy176. I would like to propose a new Wikipedia page on an individual, E. Fred Schubert, who currently is a professor at RPI < https://sites.ecse.rpi.edu/~schubert/ >. The draft of the page is located at < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Freddy176/sandbox >. Could you please help me with the following questions: Would you have any suggestions for improving the proposed Wikipedia page? How can the Sandbox page moved to a regular Wikipedia page? Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Freddy176 (talk) 13:11, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Freddy176: Welcome to the Helpdesk. Before you publish the page to the mainspace please have a look at WP:Notability (people). I think you can improve the page by adding an image or an infobox, and following Wikipedia's manual of syle. Best of luck with the sandbox. Dancing Dollar ^{(let's talk)} 13:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Dancing Dollar, I really appreciate your advise and guidance. I will proceed as you suggest. Thanks again! Freddy176 (talk) 13:43, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Freddy176, User:Freddy176/sandbox is certainly not acceptable as an article in its current state, as it cites no independent sources that discuss Schubert. Eight of the references reference are to a papers by rather than about the subject, and the other (no. 1) has no discussion. You have been trying to create an article backwards. Maproom (talk) 13:24, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Maproom, I really appreciate your advise and guidance. I think that I understand your point. I will proceed as you suggest. Thanks again! Freddy176 (talk) 13:44, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Please note, Freddy176, that despite what Dancing Dollar says, neither an image nor an infobox will have any effect on whether the draft is accepted. They make the article more attractive to look at, but won't affect its basic acceptability: it's like painting the windows before getting a building through its safety inspection. ColinFine (talk) 14:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much, ColinFine, I very much appreciate your comment. Freddy176 (talk) 15:03, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Again, thank you very much for all your comments, Dancing Dollar, Maproom, and ColinFine, I really appreciate it. I have edited the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Freddy176/sandbox article accordingly and also included new references about the subject (rather than by the subject). If you have any further comments, please let me know. Thank you. Freddy176 (talk) 20:32, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Freddy176, if you can't cite his WP:DOB, remove it. You have some in-text links to de-WP, but when these have en-WP articles, like University of Stuttgart, you should just use ordinary wikilinks to the en-WP article. In cases like [1], use template:Ill, like so:Konrad Schubert Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:24, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Dear Gråbergs Gråa Sång --- Thank you very much for your comments, I really appreciate all your comments. I have found a source for Schubert's DOB and included it in the draft WP article. I have also changed the de-WP link of the University of Stuttgart to the available en-WP link (thank you!). With respect to en-WP for Konrad Schubert, I would not expect an upcoming en-WP entry. In summary, your comments have been very helpful and I very much appreciate all of them. If you have any additional comments, please let me know. (Freddy176 (talk) 20:14, 23 April 2023 (UTC))

creating new articles

Is it not possible to create new articles without an account, as an IP? Trying to cerate a new article, I always get on a page like this. http://web.archive.org/web/20230422144055/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westerbroek 93.237.121.163 (talk) 14:40, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

You can submit for review at Wikipedia:Articles for creation. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:54, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

IPs and new accounts cannot directly create articles. 331dot (talk) 15:04, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Furthermore, I would very strongly advise any new editor, even when they have made enough edits to be WP:autoconfirmed and thus have the technical ability to create an article directly, not to do so. We delete hundreds af articles every day, and reviewers decline hundreds of drafts, because the writers have not yet learnt what it takes to create a Wikipedia article successfully. Please read your first article. ColinFine (talk) 16:15, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Name of large numbers

While reading the Wikipedia page on "Names of large numbers" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_large_numbers - I noted that - (1) a googol is 10^100, and that a googoplex is 10^googol. (2) a centillion is either 10^303 or 10^600 (depending on either a US or a British numbering convention). But no matter which numbering convention you use, tt would seem that 10^centillion (10^10^600 or 10^10^303) is an even bigger number than a googolplex (which is 10^googol or 10^10^100). Am I (a) correct in my understanding? (b) what is the name, if any does, of 10^centillion (in either one or both of the conventions, 10^10^600 or 10^10^303)

2603:9001:1405:1AEA:2824:64F7:E357:44ED (talk) 15:55, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

At some point, it becomes useless to name those huge numbers. So in the case of 10^centillion, that's the name of it. There is no name for it. PalauanReich (talk) 16:05, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

You are right about the size. Googolplex is the only case where a relatively well-known name has been invented for 10 raised to a huge power. Anyone can publish invented names on the Internet. 10¹⁰³⁰³ has been called centillionplex and ecetonplex but the names are nearly unknown and the sources probably too poor for a mention in names of large numbers. See https://googology.miraheze.org/wiki/List_of_numbers for lots of little known names. Some of them may have been invented for that page and never used elsewhere. They use the same software as Wikipedia so they look similar but are not affiliated. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:28, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Setting up global user scripts

Resolved

Can someone please point me to the documentation (here or Meta) on how to setup user scripts from here to work globally. Thanx, - FlightTime (open channel) 17:03, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

mw:Help:Extension:GlobalCssJs might be what you're looking for. Rummskartoffel 17:23, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Rummskartoffel: Thank you very much. Surprised I didn't think to look there. - FlightTime (open channel) 17:27, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

I had en edit removed without any explanations, may I ask why was it reverted?

another Grigori Grabovoi rant

I added some information useful to the Article, with a link: Rossiyskaya Gazeta, socio-political newspaper founded by the Government of the Russian Federation[edit] In a file retrieved from Rossiyskaya Gazeta, written by Alexander Kapkov, he describes how with the help of the device he created, that is patented and works with crystals, and I quote: 'Academician of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, Doctor of Technical and Physical and Mathematical Sciences Grigori Grabovoi' could slow down the chain reaction of a nuclear explosion right at the test site. The author of the article writes that there were a series of underground nuclear explosions, several tests were carried out as an experiment. He writes too that 20 kilometers from the epicenter, a nuclear charge of the same power was initiated. A constant value of the resulting destruction was recorded when the device was turned off. And wrote that when it was turned on, the military recorded very clearly that the destruction was almost halved. He also wrote that the Academician G. Grabovoi said that with a more advanced and powerful device, the destruction level can be reduced many times, and when several devices would be turned on it could be completely eliminated. He describes how the crystal module has passed very serious tests. He writes that at that date, a patent had been obtained and that this is a device capable of preventing man-made disasters many natural disasters as well. He states that the scientist carried out work with the crystal module in two stages from 1986 to 1988, (during the existence of the USSR) and then from 1990 to 1991 at the Semipalatinsk test site, which he carried out with an employee of the Institute of Seismology of the USSR Academy of Sciences (Tashkent), D. Kramarovsky, Doctor of Physical and Mathematical Sciences. And I cite the quote: "To predict and prevent any catastrophes, including nuclear ones," academician said, "I used my own formulas of general reality and the theory of wave fusion. On their basis, a special device was built". The disciplines developed by Academician Grabovoi marked the emergence of a new science in Russia, said the author of the article. The author of the article also describes how, with the help of this technology it is possible to control weather and reduce impact of nuclear explosions. Alexander Kapkov describes how these miracles of remote control in practice registered by numerous commissions reputable international organizations such as the UN and UNESCO as well as numerous Russian departments, like the Ministry of Emergency Situations, the Mission Control Center, etc. In 1999, the head of the agency, M. gave his feedback on the possibilities of using technology to forecasting earthquakes to the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, the Agency for Monitoring and Forecasting of Emergency Situations of the All-Russian Research Institute of Civil and Emergency Situations. Shahramanyan said, according to Kapkov, that, in all cases of testing the device, they obtained full confirmation of the prediction phase. In July 3, 1999 in Kamchatka, Japan and Alaska, a few months before the earthquakes, with 100% accuracy, z's predictions were proven to be correct. The author of the article posed the question on what kind of mathematics was it that allowed a person to mentally calculate all the operations for such an effective control of the surrounding reality. Any event is the result of the interaction of stationary areas of reality with the dynamic ones, explained the Academician. A distant analogy of such a "collision" of static against dynamic areas can be the cause of atmospheric fronts, when snow, hail and lightning come down as a result of this collision. He explained such scenarios as only in the dynamics of multidimensional space-time coordinates any events occur. There is a mention on the Creating fields of information and explained that the light radiation coming out of a nuclear reaction, for example, primary during the explosion at a huge magnitude speed, the calculated pulse velocity in Grigori Grabovoi's device is equal to such a small fraction written as 10 to the minus seventeenth power that is way faster that this reaction of the explosion. It turns out that the technology of consciousness is faster than an atomic explosion and allows you to overtake the nuclear reaction. And he ends his article by saying that the technique created with the help of the "crazy" theory works successfully. [7]https://web.archive.org/web/20010605123556/http://www.rg.ru/Anons/arc_2001/0511/5.shtm 2604:2D80:E085:6600:3CB9:EBDD:4F4F:CFA6 (talk) 18:53, 22 April 2023 (UTC) And it got reversed and they didn't explain the reason. MrOllie and Ohnoitsjamie. I would like to understand the reason for it, because the link is a reliable source and the information is to bring neutral point of view. Thank you. ShakeItOff14 (talk) 19:55, 22 April 2023 (UTC) This is a very long text for volunteers to digest in limited time. This isn't the place to solve disputes; you should first try to discuss your concerns with the other editors directly. 331dot (talk) 20:04, 22 April 2023 (UTC) WP:TLDR. And are you the same person as 2604:2D80:E085:6600:3CB9:EBDD:4F4F:CFA6? Bazza (talk) 20:05, 22 April 2023 (UTC) yes, I hadn't logged in when I made the edit, but it was me 2604:2D80:E085:6600:64DF:7A2C:8D82:9E1 (talk) 20:32, 22 April 2023 (UTC) Oh look, yet more credulous horseshit about Grigori Grabovoi. Wikipedia policy has been explained to these IP-hoppers and sockpuppets umpteen times already, but they keep coming back. Sadly, some people are just too stupid to recognise just how stupid they are, and no matter how many times you tell them that Wikipedia is not a platform for the promotion of their fraudster-messiah, they still seem to think they are going to get their crap included. We should probably start thinking about deleting such nonsense on sight, and immediate blocks for any IPs and/or accounts that waste our time with this moronic drivel. Not only WP:NOTHERE, but seemingly WP:NOTONTHISPLANET. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:26, 22 April 2023 (UTC) It is a reliable source, as far as I could understand. What you think or what I think shouldn't matter, Wikipedia is a neutral platform. ShakeItOff14 (talk) 20:38, 22 April 2023 (UTC) Please could you stay logged in? Firstly, your first message was so long it was unreadable. Could you please link what revision was reverted? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:43, 22 April 2023 (UTC) Yes, I will stay logged in when I write.The revision that was reverted is on this page https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&oldid=prev&diff=1151246762 ShakeItOff14 (talk) 20:46, 22 April 2023 (UTC) I suspect you have copy and pasted the wrong link, that's for this page. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:48, 22 April 2023 (UTC) Oh, here, maybe this will be useful? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grigori_Grabovoi&action=history ShakeItOff14 (talk) 20:52, 22 April 2023 (UTC) I added a section on the Talk page, that is what it was. Thank you. ShakeItOff14 (talk) 20:56, 22 April 2023 (UTC) No, it isn't a "neutral platform", not at all. 331dot (talk) 21:28, 22 April 2023 (UTC) Essential reading: Wikipedia:Lunatic charlatans. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:48, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

-Arch dude (talk) 00:58, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Original photos bought from eBay

What is the policy on uploading an original photograph taken of a singer from the 1990s that was purchased/won on auction sites like eBay on Wikipedia as a free-to-use image? – jona ✉ 21:50, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, AJona1992. Unless there is written evidence to the contrary, it must be presumed that the photographer holds the copyright. Possibly, the singer or their record label may hold the copyright, if the photographer assigned those rights in writing. Sometimes, publicity photos have language on the back releasing copyright. Are there any such markings? When you bought the photo, you acquired ownership of the physical print, not of the underlying copyright. Cullen328 (talk) 22:00, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for replying, Cullen328. I haven't won the auction yet, was hoping to get information on the policy, if any, on uploading original photographs bought on auction sites. But, the photograph does appear to be an original, I couldn't find a replicate of it on the Internet and the back of the photograph has Kodak markings. It does look like the picture was taken by someone who attended the concert, rather than a behind-the-scenes shot or someone on the stage. Should I request something in writing from the seller in regard to ownership of the photograph? Thanks – jona ✉ 22:26, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

AJona1992, based on this additional information, it is highly likely that the photographer or their estate is the copyright holder. You can ask the seller, of course. Again, it is not the physical photo that is the issue. The copyright holder is the only one able to freely license the image. It is a legal transaction. Cullen328 (talk) 22:39, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

The ownership of the photograph, and the ownership of the copyright in the photograph, are two different things. If I found a snapshot of Arthur Bremer used as a bookmark in a book I bought here in his home town, I would own the photograph. BUT I would not own the copyright to that photograph, which remains with the photographer, whoever that may have been. --Orange Mike | Talk 22:41, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Got it. So, if I were to ask the seller to write and sign that they are the original photographer who owns the rights to the image and agrees to freely license the image, would this satisfy Wikipedia's image policy? – jona ✉ 22:54, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

AJona1992, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. The license must be sent in precise form to the Wikimedia Foundation, and it is a legally binding transaction. Cullen328 (talk) 23:04, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

I'll ask the seller if they'd be willing to do that once I win the auction. Thanks for replying everyone I appreciated the help! – jona ✉ 23:28, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

You should also understand that photos taken after March 1, 1989, are pretty much automatically assumed to be protected by copyright even if they lack a visible copyright notice and even if the copyright isn't registered. This is pretty much the case worldwide due to the Berne Convention after the US agreed to officially become a party to the convention on March 1, 1989. Prior to that, US copyright law had required visible copyright notices, copyright registration and copyright renewal at various times for images first published in the US. It is because of this that you often find old publicity photos (even ones being sold on sites like eBay) uploaded to Commons. So, anything taken and first published in the 1990s is pretty much going to be automatically assumed to be protected copyright. Even if it's an anonymous or pseudonymous work, copyright protection lasts either 95 years after first publication or 120 years after creation, whichever is shorter. If you're buying the photo just for personal use (i.e. to hang on your wall), none of this probably matters; if, however, you're buying the because you want to reuse it in some way (e.g. derivative work), you might want to try and narrow down its provenance as much possible because its copyright status is going to affect how it may be reused. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:17, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Rock Band History

How do I establish a one page historical document for a rock band, with pictures and discography? ASLB2023missourimiracle (talk) 23:28, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Start by reading Wikipedia:Notability (music). Unless the sources required to meet Wikipedia notability criteria for the band can be provided, doing anything else is a complete waste of time. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:32, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

You are asking in essence "How do I build a house with a 3 car garage and pool?". Unless you know about purchasing land, building permits, construction, electrical, plumbing, and so on, you will fail. Writing a new article is the most difficult task to attempt on Wikipedia. Diving right in without learning more about Wikipedia often leads to disappointment and frustration as things happen to your work that you spent hours on that you don't understand. Please use the new user tutorial and edit some existing articles to learn about Wikipedia first. 331dot (talk) 23:36, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict)@ASLB2023missourimiracle: If the band is notable by our definition (see WP:NBAND) then proceed to WP:YFA. If the band is not notable then don't even try. Notability is the only absolute requirement for an article, and we will delete your article, wasting your time and ours. SeeWP:AMOUNT. More brutally, see Wikipedia:No one cares about your garage band. -Arch dude (talk) 23:38, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

text appearance

Wikipedia redesigned its article pages, and now the print is too small. Even when I make the page larger by clicking on the square in the bottom right corner, the type is still too small to read easily. Is there another way to enlarge the page?2600:1700:5860:64E0:642A:85:B4FF:A7E0 (talk) 23:46, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

If you want to use the old skin, you're going to have to create an account and check Preferences → Appearance → Skin → Vector legacy (2010). Otherwise you should be able to change the text size on your browser by holding down Ctrl and scrolling with a mouse wheel. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:21, 23 April 2023 (UTC)