Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 February 15

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February 15

Dealing with old unsourced information

Are there any guidelines about how to deal with old unsourced information on Wikipedia articles? I’m thinking especially of relatively untrafficked articles written as many as ten or fifteen years ago, where the factuality hasn’t been challenged, but clearly falls short of WP’s citation standards. Should that information be deleted? Flagged? Etc. Thanks! Brian (talk) 11:06, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

If the article is about a living person, the unsourced information should be removed per the biographies of living persons policy. If is an article about a topic other than a living person, you have a little more leeway. If you think there is a prospect of a source being found, you could just flag it, or you could remove it and discuss it on the article talk page. 331dot (talk) 11:10, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

— or better: go and find a source yourself. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 16:30, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

That's an option, but it is not required. People are free to decide, from among the menu of appropriate responses, how to handle unsourced information, without criticism. --Jayron32 18:15, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Agreed, that's why I said "better" not "mandatory"! It is, however, the most constructive option and far more helpful than fly-by tagging. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 18:43, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

I certainly will, as I’m able! I just had a disagreement with an editor who deleted some old information I’d have liked more time to source, and wasn’t sure if there were guidelines that could have helped mediate. Brian (talk) 09:21, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Brian (talk) 09:22, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

I would reccomend if you are looking for sources, to limit your search to information published before the Wikipedia article to avoid circular referencing. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 17:54, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Quick questions (about revdel and admin noticeboard)

The Q's are:

1. When an edit has its edit summary removed, is the edit summary still visible to administrators and the like, or is it totally removed (i.e. actually deleted)?
2. When an edit gets "RevisionDeleted", that means the revision is just hidden away from the public, and is viewable by admins, right (so not totally deleted)?
3. When a page revision is "suppressed" / oversighted, the revision is still there, just not viewable by even administrators, only readable by oversighters, right?
4. Here's a bigger one I wanna ask. When I go to Administrators' Noticeboard, there's a sub-page of it called Admins' Noticeboard/Incidents. Let's say I wanna report a user for long-term issues of disruptive editing and harassment, should I post it in just the admins' board, or should I post it in /Incidents instead? I can't really tell what noticeboard should be used for what, as they seem a bit similar in how admins process things and what people report on them.

Thanks guys. Signing off, AP 499D25 (talk) 12:03, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Your answers: 1) Yes, still accessible (although less visible) 2) Yes 3) Yes 4) You probably want ANI. Think of AN as a noticeboard, and ANI as a factory where things get done. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 12:08, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

To add to what zzuuzz has said, ANI is the appropriate place for #4. The WP:AN is the place for things of general interest to admins; discussions of policy or of general enforcement ideas, notices of admin tasks that are backlogged (like WP:RFPP or WP:AIV or something like that), admins asking for backup or reviews of their actions, that sort of thing. WP:ANI is the correct place to go if there has been a specific behavioral violation that needs addressing. --Jayron32 18:11, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

How do you revert a edit?

how do you revert a edit? 2077f (talk) 12:23, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

For information about reverting, please read WP:Reverting. - David Biddulph (talk) 12:28, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

I see a board that has not been updated since last year and there is now a

Hello, I see a board that has not been updated since last year and there is now a new Provincial Minister of Franciscan Province of Herzegovina - Fr. Jozo Grbeš.

Not sure how to get this updated? 12.165.150.34 (talk) 14:36, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP user. I note that the article only gets about 8 page-views per day, so it clearly is of only limited interest to most people. Please go ahead and update it yourself, provided you include a reliable source for the information. If you are unsure how to add the citation, you could read WP:REFB. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:03, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

You could also use the Wikipedia:Edit Request Wizard, especially if you have any conflict of interest. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 16:02, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Every change to Wikipedia only happens because someone sees that it's needed, and then fixes it themselves. The only qualification for fixing a mistake in Wikipedia is to notice the mistake exists. There's literally no one to blame except yourself if you see a mistake, and then don't fix it immediately. --Jayron32 16:45, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

That's a bit unkind. The OP was only asking how to get something updated, not blaming anyone for the update not being done. I'm not aware that you, I, or anyone else, are under an obligation to fix immediately any an error we might notice. Bazza (talk) 16:56, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

No, no one is obligated at all. Just noting that people sometimes think there's a magical group of people who fix Wikipedia and make better. That group is actually every human currently alive on the planet and the OP is among that group, so have as much right to edit Wikipedia as anyone. I am not special in that regard, I hold no special rights to fix an article that someone else does not. It's not about obligation, it's about ability. I can fix things. So can you. So can the OP. It's about can and not must. --Jayron32 17:04, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I have probably not understood your statement "There's literally no one to blame except yourself if you see a mistake, and then don't fix it immediately." as you intended it to be understood; the OP may have done the same. Bazza (talk) 18:26, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

I was perhaps a bit too wordy. The answer to "how to get this updated" is always "fix it yourself". I can totally see how it reads the way you said; I agree, I was rude and I apologize to you, and to the OP. It was not my intent to be rude, but rather point out that Wikipedia is built only by people finding problems and fixing them. There's nobody who is responsible to do so, only people who feel like fixing things at the time. --Jayron32 18:46, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Fr. Grbeš. There is a relevant cartoon at WP:DOIT, together with more details. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:13, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Eligibility for CSD G12

If a page is >90% match on Copyvio detector for a specific link, but the copied prose is contained in quotation marks and with cited sources is it eligible for WP:G12 because it's considered over quoting? TipsyElephant (talk) 15:59, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@TipsyElephant: I cannot quote a specific policy, but we err on the side of caution: If it might be a copyvio, then the quote should be removed immediately by the the first editor who sees it, without prior discussion. If there is a possibility that the quote can be defended as "fair use", then also open a discussion on the talk page to this effect, and re-instate the quote only if a consensus develops that is in in fact fair use. This is about the quote, not the article. If removal of the quote causes the article to be unusable, then that's a different issue. -Arch dude (talk) 16:38, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@Arch dude: the article in question is List of Welcome to Night Vale episodes and this is the CopyVio Detector report. What are your thoughts on this particular instance? Each of the episode descriptions are clearly copied from the iTunes page, but they are included in quotations and the source is provided. I think it's clearly overquoting, but I don't know if that is grounds for deletion under WP:G12 or if the descriptions just need to be removed/rewritten. TipsyElephant (talk) 16:56, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Rochelle Mercedes Garza

I would like to change the Rochelle Mercedes Garza page into just Rochelle Garza. Can anybody do that or tell me how I can?

Thank you

MIAJudges (talk) 16:04, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

See Help:Moving a page for information on how to move a page to a new title. --Jayron32 16:45, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Popup Ogg media viewer: Can the window be made movable?

I am reading on Chrome for Windows. If I click on the play ▶ button in an inline media element, a popup player appears. Unfortunately, the media player covers the article and cannot be moved. Trying to grab the viewer's title bar just closes the player. This can be problematic for music-related articles (I noticed it while reading Dies_irae#Musical_settings), where the article contains musical notation for the piece in the audio file and it is helpful to follow the article while the media plays. Is there a way to change this behavior? None of the style options in Template:Listen seem to make a difference; it seems like the presence of lyrics in the media are preventing the player from working inline. Theodore Kloba (☎) 16:05, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@Theodore Kloba I find the same issue in MS Edge (which is now Chromium-based). This appears to be a feature of the browser and .ogg files, since the shorter piece below "David cum Sibylla" plays without preventing scrolling. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:04, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@Theodore Kloba: The problem is not the file type but as you suspected that the file has captions when it's played. They are called closed captions or Timed Text. In this case they are at commons:TimedText:Dies.irae.ogg.en.srt. The underlying feature used by {{Listen}} is just a wikilinked file which automatically starts a popup player if it's a sound file with Timed Text.

Ogg file without captions: .

Ogg file with captions:

Wikipedia:Extended image syntax#Sound files doesn't even mention Timed Text. I don't think we can change anything. A savvy user can open the article in two browser tabs and read the second while the player is locking the first. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:31, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Publish my translated article

Hi everyone This is so confusing. I've just translated my first Wikipedia article and I wanted it to be published. Is there any way that a senior user just review it and help publishing it? Thanks Ehsancdn (talk) 17:41, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Ehsancdn: thank you for aiming to contribute to Wikipedia. I guess this is about Draft:غزل صارمی. It won't be accepted as an article in English-language Wikipedia, in its current state, for (at least) three reasons.

1. Its title in is Farsi. That can easily be remedied.
2. It cites no sources, and so does not establish that its subject is notable, in the peculiar sense in which that word is used here.
3. You call it a translation, I assume of an article in Farsi Wikipedia. You need to credit the source you have translated, by putting a statement on its talk page, linking to the Farsi article. Maproom (talk) 17:50, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for responding to my newbie question.

1. Fixed

2,3. I've seen many English articles with no references. How can I refer to the Farsi page as a reference? Or can I refer that the Farsi resources and news media, were the resource that I used to translate and write the English page?

Thanks Ehsancdn (talk) 18:15, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@Ehsancdn: Oddly, you must attribute the Farsi Wikipedia article, but you may not cite its as a source for the information. The attribution satisfies your obligations under its copyright license. You cannot cite it because we do not consider Wikipedia to be a reliable source, even the English Wikipedia. You may cite Farsi sources as long as they are "reliable sources" (WP:RS) such as major newpapers or published books. They do not need to be in English nor do we need for there to be translations of the sources, although it helps. If you see an article on the English Wikipedia that does not have sufficient references, then please tell us which articles. We need to fix them or remove them, as such an article violates our core policies. -Arch dude (talk) 20:25, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@Ehsancdn: For unreferenced articles on the English Wikipedia, you can add {{Unreferenced}} at the top. You're right that there are many unreferenced articles, but the current draft reviewers won't accept one. See also WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 03:37, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Ehsancdn. Please read Translate us, and note particularly that 1) the licence under which almost all Wikipedia material is released requires that the origin be attributed; and 2) that different Wikipedias have different requirements, and there is no guarantee that (the translation of) an article in one Wikipedia will meet the requirements of another one. ColinFine (talk) 18:10, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Getting a specific single value from Wikidata and/or splitting multiple values into multiple table entries

I'm currently trying to replace the box office numbers on the List of films based on DC Comics publications with Wikidata. Currently trying to do it with Template:Wikidata, but I've hit a wall with getting exactly what I need out of that. So far I've got this;

{{wikidata|properties|Q213053|P2142}}

(Q213053 is Superman (1978), P2142 is box office)

but the issue with this is that it grabs all three values for the box office (worldwide, North America, and Opening Weekend in North America) all together, and I don't see a way to split them into different cells of the table or anything. If I change "properties" to "property" it'll grab only one (whichever one happens to be first/highest priority, in this case the worldwide one), but I don't see a way to specify which one I want. There's also the issue of matching the existing formatting, but that can be sorted out later.

Is what I'm trying to do possible with this module? Or, is there a different module that would better suit my needs? ShyKen (talk) 21:14, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Help publish my first translation

Hello again. Please someone help me publish my first translation article. Wikipedia's UI is so confusing. Is there anyone here who can simplify things a little bit? Ehsancdn (talk) 21:25, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Now nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ghazal Saremi. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 22:06, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Millennium Park and AT&T Plaza Updates

Hello!

My name is Olivia Stufflebeam and I am the Administrative Assistant for Millennium Park Foundation. I have a question regarding the Millennium Park and AT&T Plaza pages. How can I edit the AT&T page to read "Grainger Plaza?" AT&T Plaza was renamed Grainger Plaza in 2021. I have already made a couple of edits on both pages to reflect the change. Could you please assist?

AT&T Plaza

Thank you!

Olivia Stufflebeam

Millennium Park Foundation (talk) 22:28, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Millennium Park Foundation Please see your user talk page for important information regarding your username(in short, you will need to change it, instructions are provided there) and conflict of interest/paid editing. 331dot (talk) 22:32, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@Millennium Park Foundation: After you resolve your block, you can use the Wikipedia:Edit Request Wizard to suggest improvements to the articles. Since you have an apparent conflict of interest, you should not be editing the articles yourself. Thanks for your suggestions to improve the articles! GoingBatty (talk) 03:48, 16 February 2023 (UTC)