Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 April 25

Help desk
< April 24	<< Mar | April | May >>	April 26 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Help Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current Help Desk pages.

April 25

Inappropriate comments on a closed MFD

The comment made at the bottom of this page Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:The Monument Mythos by an IP editor seems very inappropriate to me (it's pretty much cheering on for someone to die by suicide), should it maybe be deleted from the edit history? ★Trekker (talk) 05:08, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@StarTrekker: Deleted, but it still needs an admin to perform a revdel. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done – robertsky (talk) 13:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing and Robertsky: Thank you both.★Trekker (talk) 18:21, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Questions about CSS

Hi, The page Wikipedia:Community portal/styles.css is displayed as code but when I create a new page named Wikipedia: ..../styles.css it is not displayed as code. Pereoptic ^Talk✉️   07:31, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Because only css pages in the template namespace get the right annotation for that. You can either create in template space and move to Wikipedia, OR ask someone to use Special:ChangeContentModel to modify the page to have the right annotation. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:43, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Pereoptic: Administrators have a link to change content model at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Communityl/styles.css&action=info#mw-pageinfo-content-model. Template editors can also do it at the English Wikipedia. I guess your real interest is the Persian Wikipedia where you are currently a template editor and created a styles.css page today. Template editors don't have the required editcontentmodel right there when I compare Special:ListGroupRights#templateeditor and fa:Special:ListGroupRights#templateeditor. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:22, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter: Yes, you guessed right! I saw an example of editcontentmodel in English Wikipedia, but I could not find it in Persian Wikipedia. Thank you very much for your complete explanation. best Pereoptic ^Talk✉️   15:13, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

What is ../wiki/.. as in Wikipedia URLs?

I am trying to understand more about Wikipedia's use of URLs. I can not understand the purpose of the /wiki/ part in a URL such as en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion. Why not just have en.wikipedia.org/Onion. Any help on this would be very much appreciated.Gourdiehill (talk) 12:05, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Gourdiehill: It identifies the live wiki pages at a website with other types of pages. wikipedia.org is only used for wikis but we still have many other pages like https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Onion&action=history and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Onion&diff=prev&oldid=1216909020. One of the advantages is that our robots.txt at https://en.wikipedia.org/robots.txt can use the line Disallow: /w/ to tell search engines and other web crawlers to not visit those pages. The pages also have noindex to prevent indexing but a webcrawler would have to waste its own and our resources to discover noindex in the html. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter I understand some of your answer but not fully. Also there are a number of separate but related issues. It is a bit confusing that en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Onion and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion both return the same web page. Wouldn't it be best if the page was accessed by en.wikipedia.org/Onion? I feel the URLs should be meaningful to users but if too much functionality gets attached to them they start to become meaningless (speaking for myself anyway). Gourdiehill (talk) 15:11, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Gourdiehill: It's practical for some applications that there are other ways to see pages and associated information. /w/index.php has a lot of parameters to see different things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion is the canonical ("official") URL for the wiki page. The html for https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Onion says <link rel="canonical" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion">. See canonical link element for the feature. Some wikis do have url's similar to en.wikipedia.org/Onion. It's easier to type and may look prettier to readers but as mentioned, it has advantages to have a clear distinction between wiki pages and other pages at the same website. MediaWiki controls it with mw:Manual:$wgArticlePath. It's set to '/wiki/$1' in all Wikimedia wikis with code in https://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php and https://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=CommonSettings.php. You are very unlikely to get this changed. If you didn't understand my webcrawler argument then let me elaborate a little. Google and many other websites have automated programs visiting millions (probably billions in total) of Wikipedia pages, typically so they can be included in search results for their users. Disallow: /w/ is a convenient way to tell them "Don't waste resources visiting page histories, diffs and other non-wiki pages". If they did then it would cost both them and us significant money, and they wouldn't visit as many pages we do want them to visit. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:58, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter:Thanks very much for that interesting explanation. I did not know about Canonical link element so have read about that. I became interested in this because I wanted to make use of Wiktionary as an API for a website I am making. I am not finding it very easy as I am running into CORS issues when I make requests. I am rather out of my depth and I have seen there are some issues with MediaWiki APIs but I thought it ought to be possible to make an Ajax request from my site to retrieve the English Wiktionary page for translations of a particular word. I am finding the API documentation very difficult! Gourdiehill (talk) 16:32, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Paula Vennels in search

Hi

I was looking for the Paula Vennells article earlier and as I typed here name incrementally into the search box, nothing seemed to match. I did eventually find the article and when I paste the full name into the search box, it did find it. Is this normal behaviour? Fob.schools (talk) 13:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fob.schools: I got the same result. It's not normal unless the page was created in the last day and hasn't been indexed yet by the autocompletion feature, but the page is from 2019. I have moved it without leaving a redirect and then moved it back to register a new creation of the page name for indexing. It still gives the same result but that's expected right now. It will hopefully be indexed correctly within a day. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:21, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fob.schools:, @PrimeHunter:, problem seems to be rather more widespread, see Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Search_suggestions_seem_to_be_missing_obvious_choices DuncanHill (talk) 15:10, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, the same thing has been happening to me with Duocylinder. TypoEater (talk) 18:58, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Replacing image from a page

Judge Russell asked me to help him replace the photo currently on his page with his formal headshot. John D. Russell (judge)

I created a wiki account and uploaded an image and tagged his page, but I don't know how to completely replace the current image and use the new one: File:JRussell.jpg

-- GableGotwalsLaw (talk) 14:33, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@GableGotwalsLaw, did you take that photograph? That is what "own work" means. 57.140.16.48 (talk) 15:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

If you have a personal relationship with Judge Russell, you should also review WP:COI to see whether it applies to you, and follow the instructions there. 57.140.16.48 (talk) 15:07, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I hired the photographer that took the photo and have rights to the image. He used to work at GableGotwals before he was appointed as a judge and he asked me to help him get the existing photo on his wiki page replaced with his formal headshot I tried to upload. GableGotwalsLaw (talk) 15:10, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@GableGotwalsLaw, if your username represents a company rather than an individual, I recommend requesting a change of username - WP:CHU has instructions - lest your account be blocked on that basis. A username needs to represent you as an individual. "[Name] at GableGotwalsLaw" would be acceptable, for instance (no need to use your real name).

Photographers typically retain the rights to photos they are hired to take unless it is a formal work for hire. I don't know whether this applies in your case.

Someone may come along and add the image for you if they like; if they don't, I would recommend making a formal edit request on the talk page, Talk:John D. Russell (judge), since you seem to have a COI here. 57.140.16.48 (talk) 16:08, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Ah. Account got blocked while I was typing out all that. 57.140.16.48 (talk) 16:13, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

How to set the extent of the lead section? (Infobox shows up too soon on mobile view)

In the mobile view for Fermat number (with a narrow enough screen width so as to make the infobox inline), the infobox appears before the lead section actually ends. "A Fermat number [..] is a positive integer of the form {INFOBOX} ${\textstyle F_{n}=2^{2^{n}}+1}$". I figure this is because there's a line break between "form" and the formula. Is there a way to adjust this, such that the lead section is explicitly defined? Coolreader18 (talk) 15:15, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

was that what you were looking for? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Monospace template not working on one page only?

I was reading Canonical link element and I saw a paragraph (Imgur link) where the example URLs aren't being rendered in monospace font as they should; inspecting the element confirms that those two spans of text are supposed to be monospace. I copied the code over to my sandbox and it rendered as it should have. Is this a problem only on my end? I've tried refreshing the article page, purging it, and clearing my cache to see if that would fix it, but no dice. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:19, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Fixed for me by removing {{mono}} from inside a link earlier in the page.[1] I don't know exactly why if failed but the template uses Wikipedia:TemplateStyles which has complicated rules. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! That's a strange interaction. Looks like using the deprecated tt tags seems to circumvent this. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Where should I discuss a redirect?

We have a whole page entitled "Redirects for Discussion". However, I can't tell if that's merely a euphemism for "Redirects for possible Deletion." I do know that many redirects listed end up neither deleted nor merely retained, but transformed in some way.

I disagree with Natg 19 on whether to convert a redirect to...something intermediate between a disambig page and a stub. If my revision had stuck and the page were no longer a redirect, I would attempt to start a discussion at the corresponding talk page. But my revision was reverted, and the page is a redirect right now.

Consequently non-technically-minded editors might struggle to find the talk page. Should I initiate discussion there anyways or take it to RfD?

Thanks, Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 17:33, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Bernanke's Crossbow, why not start a discussion at Talk:Mercury-vapor lamp. I am not convinced by your version, as disambig pages should help with navigation and stubs should be notable, and I don't think the new page does either. TSventon (talk) 18:15, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Article not showing on Visual Editor linking

Hi! I have been trying to create a draft for a corresponding article in the Italian Wikipedia that is Operation Strade sicure, so I created Draft: Operation Strade sicure but I am having trouble trying to link words to the Autostrada A3 which I have tried to search for but it kept directing me to List of A3 roads with the article not showing up. I mainly use visual editor and I don't know how to link things via source editing. I've read every search result, but it kept linking to other pages. Asvro (talk) 18:19, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Asvro, there is no Autostrada A3 article on English Wikipedia. Autostrada A3 is a redirect to List of A3 roads. 57.140.16.48 (talk) 18:23, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

On behalf to @Asvro, the problem has been fixed. Thank you. 2003 LN6 18:31, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

draft afc submission in my userpage

for fun and as a joke, i decided to copy the "draft afc submission" box from a draft lying around, and put it in my userpage with the heading "submit to me"

i would like to know out of curiosity, what would happen if i, or someone else, submits the "draft (that is my userpage)" for review?

i apologize if this is not the right place for me to ask things. i've had a look at the "am i in the right place" page; another place i could be in is the village pump for technical stuff but what i'm asking probably isn't a bug, so i'm here. — ppr22📄 18:41, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

It would be added to Category:Pending AfC submissions, but I wouldn't recommend wasting AfC volunteer time. I have added demo=y to take it out of Category:Draft AfC submissions, which possibly means it would be ignored. TSventon (talk) 19:00, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

right, the purpose is for it to just look ridiculous, like

a draft afc submission box... in a user page??? it's silly, right? :P

although if it were to be approved (which will never be, i know that, but my curiosity overtakes me), would my user page become an actual article or what would happen? — ppr22📄 10:32, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

If an editor writes an article on their user page and submits it through AfC, it will generally be moved to draft space before it is reviewed. Then if it is accepted it is moved to article space. So if User:Paper2222 was an article (which it isn't) and was submitted it could be moved to Draft:Paper2222 as a draft and then Paper2222 as an article. TSventon (talk) 11:13, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

so, my userpage would become an article

that's spooky haha. thanks for the answer! — ppr22📄 11:24, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Paper2222, it's clear that you have put a lot of effort into your user page and your signature. As this is, after all, an encyclopedia, how about putting effort into improving articles? -- Hoary (talk) 21:44, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

if this is just you yelling at me to put my effort in other, better places (i can't tell; autism)... i'm sorry. i would rather do (often useless) things that make me happy.

most of the work i've done are fixing obvious typos and other edits that are 90% of the time minor edits. the most i've probably ever done is add a citation to a [needs citation] message on a topic i know very well.

also, you can't exactly tell me how i waste my online time.

if this is an actual suggestion, then i would love to. i love the community and hustleness this place gives, and the amount of wikipedia trivia i've found out are endless. i hate thinking about how the majority of edits i've done is my user page. i would love to do more work in improving (and possibly even making) articles. i've just a few problems:

1. i'm too unconfident in making brave edits or new articles, since i'm afraid of getting ridiculed for it.

i know how to write articles (i think), and i know how to add citations pretty well, but my unconfidence just gets to me ;w;

2. i don't spend alot time on wikipedia

while i do visit this site often, i feel like i don't visit it enough to participate in any wikipedian-oriented events or discussions.

plus, (unbelievably,) i have a life. i go outside and i have millions of other hobbies i need to keep track of, which is a good segway to

3. i have way too many hobbies

adding wikipedia onto list of the other hobbies i have, on top of my terrible time management, is a recipe for failure. — ppr22📄 10:55, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Fixing obvious typos and adding citations on a topic you know very well are both useful things to do. TSventon (talk) 11:17, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

"Provolone" and "provola"

I realised a not insignificant problem: in this encyclopaedia there is the wikilink "provolone" on many words "provola", but these are two different cheeses, although similar: https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provolone; https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provola. JacktheBrown (talk) 21:04, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

JackkBrown, you can write an English article about Provola. Cullen328 (talk) 21:14, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Cullen328: You mean "provolone". All right, I copy and paste this. JacktheBrown (talk) 21:16, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

JackkBrown, no I didn't mean "provolone". We already have Provolone. Cullen328 (talk) 21:20, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Cullen328: sorry, I thought you wanted me to open a discussion on the "provolone" page. JacktheBrown (talk) 21:25, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

JackkBrown, I didn't say that. Cullen328 (talk) 21:31, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Cullen328: I know; I misunderstood, unfortunately. JacktheBrown (talk) 21:32, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

[Edit Conflict] So delink them. Likely this English language Wikipedia does need (or at least would benefit from) more Italians, but that would require more English-competent Italians to voluntarily become active editors here – how can that be achieved?

Of course, exactly the same surely applies to all other non-Anglophone cultures. And I'm sure that Anglosphere topics covered in the Italian and other non-English Wikipedias also have some similar problems. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 188.220.144.58 (talk) 21:21, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Dear IP, it's not easy to do it on all pages, alone I can't do it. JacktheBrown (talk) 21:23, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

JacktheBrown, you have several times pointed out that coverage in en:Wikipedia of Italian matters is poor. This poverty is regrettable but not at all surprising. If you want to remind people of it and perhaps also appeal for help, why not do so at WT:WikiProject Italy or WT:WikiProject Food and drink? -- Hoary (talk) 21:54, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Hoary: no, the Italian topics are treated sufficiently well here, but they could certainly be improved (for example the "Italy" article, the "Kingdom of Italy" article and the "Sicily" article are better in en.wiki). JacktheBrown (talk) 21:58, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

JacktheBrown, so what's your purpose in bringing up here (Help Desk) successive examples of what could certainly be improved? -- Hoary (talk) 22:41, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

JacktheBrown, you say "it's not easy to do it on all pages, alone I can't do it".

Using the search box option "Search for pages containing provola" reveals that there are (only) 16 articles that contain the word 'provola', and one of them concerns butterflies. Checking, and correcting where necessary, 15 articles does not seem to me to be a monumental task for one who is concerned about the matter, and almost certainly you are the only one in this discussion who has the necessary knowledge to do it.

There are rarely sweeping overall solutions to deficiencies in Wikipedia's huge store of data: the only way to correct them is the same way that Wikipedia was created in the first place, with each individual contributing or doing what they can. Eventually it all adds up, even if it takes years. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 188.220.144.58 (talk) 21:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)