Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 October 27

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October 27

WP:RSP table loss of color

Is it just me or is the table background color all the same color? It's supposed to have a different background color, but it's showing up in the same color even if I check several different recent revs. Graywalls (talk) 00:21, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@Graywalls: Looks like this diff, which adds a sticky header class, removed the cell background colours. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:33, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

I think I got it back to how it was before... did I restore it correctly? Since there's been no consensus, I think it should stay this way. Graywalls (talk) 03:15, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Updating/Adding photos & description to Australian Big things

What is the simplest way to add/update photos and description to Australian Big things? I have only been able to see information in relation to creating articles. Little Shan (talk) 00:57, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Little Shan, if you think that a photograph that you took would benefit the article Big things (Australia), then you go to c:Special:UploadWizard and carefully follow what this tells you. -- Hoary (talk) 02:11, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@Little Shan Thanks for uploading your photo File:Big Redback Spider.jpg. Images of items like sculptures can be tricky because in some countries a work like that is considered the copyright of the artist and your photo would be what is called a derivative work. Fortunately, in Australia there is an exemption called freedom of panorama. I've added that tag to your file, as you'll see on its page on Commons. You can add that tag if you decide to upload similar photos later. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:00, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the information:) out of interest how long generally does it take before I’ll see the Big Red Back appear in the list of Big Things Western Australian? 2001:8003:840A:5B00:14ED:CF56:1748:C817 (talk) 23:43, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

If you register to Wikipedia, be bold and add that image to the article where proper. 2601AC47 (talk) 23:48, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Share the same IP Address as a notorious sock puppet

I'm scared. As a new user to Wikipedia, I'm still warming up to the rules and what not, but that's when I discovered the term "sockpuppet" which is apparently used on people who make multiple accounts to use edits. This is my first account ever, I've just started editing on Wikipedia today, but just to be safe, I looked at my IP Address and came to the realization that a sockpuppet shares it. This is scaring me. I've never had an account on Wikipedia and am just here to fix some articles that weren't in the best of condition. What can be done about this kind of thing? Am I a sockpuppet for sharing an IP address with a nefarious editor, who my guess, is using a VPN? Am I gonna get banned now? ThePainkiller90 (talk) 02:29, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi! Welcome to Wikipedia, we're so excited to have you here!!

The important thing is that no, you won't get in trouble just for sharing the same IP as a vandal or sockmaster (someone who runs sockpuppets) - especially now that you have made an account.

From our policy on investigating sock puppets: "An editing pattern match is the important thing; the IP match is really just extra evidence (or not)."

If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask here, at the teahouse or at my talk page. :) MolecularPilot 02:34, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Now, that's relieving! I was scared for a second there, haha. Thanks for your kind words and I'll continue to look around and read on Wikipedia's policies. I just learned how to do citations and did one for myself, so I'm getting there in terms of being a good editor. ThePainkiller90 (talk) 02:41, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@ThePainkiller90: Welcome to Wikipedia. It's very likely you're on a dynamic IP, which can change users every once in a while. I wouldn't worry about it; just remember to adhere to the policies and guidelines. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:41, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Political bias

Why does Trump's page have so many negative facts and Kamala's page praise her and all she did to fight Trump? 2600:6C60:5400:ACF:DAA6:1E15:9708:6A3D (talk) 12:30, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Please address concerns about an article to its talk page, such as Talk:Kamala Harris Talk:Donald Trump. If you find that sources are not being accurately summarized, please detail the specific errors. If sources are being accurately summarized, but are in error or you disagree with what they say, you'll have to take that up with the sources. 331dot (talk) 12:51, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Why does Trump do so many negative things? Clarityfiend (talk) 10:02, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

article

Hi i had nominated this article Talk:Battle of Thorgo for GAN previously and was a failed. I had done quite many edits keeping in view the problems pointed out and later tagged the Reviewer, he said that there were still sentence structure issues and the block quotes should be summarized, I'm unable figure out how can i solve this ?

Another thing that I was wondering if I could add upload image taken from book for under the license "With a photograph, copyright subsists until 50 years from the beginning of the calendar year next following the year in which the photograph is first published." As per rules written in

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_territory/Pakistan

any picture from books can be uploaded? Example from this book which was published in 1970

https://books.google.com.pk/books/about/Raiders_in_Kashmir.html?id=Ab8tWjdbWf4C&redir_esc=y

Rahim231 (talk) 13:11, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

There are some odd things in Battle of Thorgo. There are three very similar maps of the site of the ambush. There's an officer whose name is sometimes "Cootes" and sometimes "Coutts", while he's sometimes a major and sometimes a colonel. There's a statement that the relief column, while under cover of darkness, stopped for lunch. There are two similar versions of the final paragraph of the article. Maproom (talk) 14:47, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Haha forgot to remove that previous version of paragraph. I have kept Major and Coutts spelling since that's what their side calls him. I have also removed a map, wasn't looking odd until you pointed out. Thanks a lot, if you find any other issue please inform me. Rahim231 (talk) 20:00, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Copyright questions require rather specialised knowledge to answer, so they are better raised at WP:MCQ. ColinFine (talk) 17:39, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Sure I'll ask it here. Thanks. Rahim231 (talk) 20:01, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Would this past muster with WP:BANDMEMBER?

Hi friends, hoping to get some opinions here on whether or not this person would pass WP:BANDMEMBER notability guidelines.

The subject in question is a singer who recently left their band due to controversy and fan bullying. My first thought was "no way this meets WP:BANDMEMBER" but I keep seeing significant coverage about the subject himself and now I'm like "weelllll..... maybe."

A lot of the coverage is large pieces on the subject, examining the cultural expectations of K-pop idols within South Korea, the circumstances surrounding his exit, and what is perceived by some as a toxic cancel culture within the industry as a whole.

Examples: NBC News, South China Morning Post, The Express Tribune, Resonate Magazine, Times Now, Manila Standard, The Post

I'm going back and forth on the question, so I just wanted to get some second opinions to see if I'm way off base before I put some effort into writing an article that will just end up at AfD. Thoughts? RachelTensions (talk) 14:37, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@RachelTensions You clearly have plenty of decent sources that would normally be fine for WP:NBIO, ignoring his specific band history. The problem is that it now falls foul of WP:BLP1E if all the furore is coming about because he was fired from the band. Let's see what other editors here think. You could always write up something via WP:AfC, which would get expert eyes on your draft. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:06, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull Thanks for your input. I thought about WP:BLP1E but thought it might not be applicable because he is notable as a member of his band in addition to this event.

Anyway, happy to have more opinions. I'm not bothered either way, but I'd hate to put effort into an article that will immediately fail at AfD because I was off with my interpretation of the guidelines. RachelTensions (talk) 15:14, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

My 2c is an article is definitely called for. Whether it would pass muster with the community I don't know, but my guess would be yes, because:

• WP:BIO (basically WP:GNG) is the operative rule, trumping WP:BANDMEMBER. And there's no question that the guy passes BIO and punts it thru the goalpoasts.
• Sure its a WP:BLP1E, but that is not necessarily a deal killer, depending on how notable/important the one event (that is why we have articles on Arthur Bremer and so on).
• And I would not judge this event to not be emphemeral at all: it ties in with larger issues of K-Pop operations and public facing, and 21st century Korean culture and world pop culture generally. Some non-zero number of people will probably want to read about in future years on those grounds.
• And beyond the one event, his band looks pretty notable. That is not an automatic in, but it doesn't hurt, and I would expect that there are Korean fanzines etc. that have some coverage of the guy generally -- favorite color, that sort of thing -- you can find using google translation. Coverage is coverage, teen-girl-oriented websites are judged mostly by their reliability and circulation, not how important they are to the scientific community etc. (Altho you will run into people who disagree.)

Bottom line, IMO yes we want this article, we need this article, we would be grateful if you volunteered to create this article, and it should pass muster easily. My 2c. Herostratus (talk) 17:54, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@Herostratus @Michael D. Turnbull thanks friends, I've put together a draft at Draft:Seunghan, I'd be grateful if you had a look if you're interested. RachelTensions (talk) 03:28, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Fatal exception of type "InvalidArgumentException" on Wikipedia UI

For the past day at least I've had a pending notification on my Wikipedia UI. When I click through to it, it says no notifications are available. Then when I click on "all notifications", I get this:

[e5e4adfc-8db0-4c19-acbd-43f4a3cd84ae] 2024-10-27 17:51:35: Fatal exception of type "InvalidArgumentException"

Logging in and out and trying different browsers has no effect. It seems to be a back end issue with PHP. How do I fix this and clear this? -- Very Polite Person (talk) 17:53, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@Very Polite Person Several others have reported this: see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Notices not working for the latest details. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:39, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! -- Very Polite Person (talk) 17:34, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Quotes + Italics

Hey y'all, I have a pretty specific style question about quotes/italics/foreign languages, feel free to send me elsewhere if this isn't the place to ask.

I'm using a quote in an article (Cady Noland), the full portion being used is as follows: "serve as a kind of 'flag manqué'"

Running into a bit of trouble as the single apostrophe quotes around "flag manqué" are from the source, but the MOS says foreign words like manqué should be italicized. When I try and italicize the word "manqué," though, the additional apostrophe sourced from the text disappears.

Here's how it renders: "serve as a kind of 'flag ''[[manqué]]'''"

When formatting something like this, what's more important, the apostrophe from the quote or the italics for the foreign language word? Or is there a workaround to get the italics to work without swallowing up the closing apostrophe quote?

Thanks! 19h00s (talk) 18:29, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Presuming French:

serve as a kind of '{{lang|fr|flag manqué}}' → serve as a kind of 'flag manqué'

When marking up non-English text, use the appropriate {{lang}} template so that browsers and screen readers know how to properly render/pronounce the non-English text.

I nowiki'd your example because bad formatting is bad formatting and that breaks some users' syntax highlighting.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:18, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! 19h00s (talk) 19:36, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

19h00s, a general related tip: for English language text requiring italicisation plus apostrophe, Template:' will output an apostrophe, and {{em}} will italicise the text passed to it. Some combination of these templates should always let you avoid the unmatched triple apostrophe that breaks formatting, even when a {{lang}} template does not apply (and, in case anyone wonders, {{lang|en}} retains the standard upright text styling). Folly Mox (talk) 20:11, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

You should only use {{em}} for text that is to be emphasized, as it produced the em HTML tag. If you need to italicize text for other reasons, use the normal double single quote wikitext, which produces i. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 10:34, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Good point; I forgot about that. Folly Mox (talk) 10:45, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Header for non-numbered archives

Is there a variant of {{archive}} that generates links to adjacent monthly, non-numbered archive pages of the sort indexed by {{Archives by months}} (like Wikipedia talk:Deletion review/Archives/2020/September)? Or, failing that, at least one that would let me manually put in links to the next and previous archive pages as parameters? —Cryptic 22:45, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Im having trouble to move an article called 'Vetëvendosje'. So i need help..

It would be more correct to use the full name of this known kosovan party, actualy the leading party of the Kosovan government, like it has been the case for all other kosovan parties as far i saw.. The full name is this: 'Lëvizja Vetëvendosje' (Vetëvendosje, in itself means self-determination, without its explanatory part its non-sense)..

So It could be 'The Self-determination Movement' or 'Lëvizja Vetëvendosje'. Otherwise the name is half-hearted..

I am more known and active in the albanian wikipedia, If someone helps, i appriciate it. Leutrim.P (talk) 23:36, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Leutrim.P I see you have moved the article yourself. I would have suggested a discussion at the article talk page first as other editors may disagree. TSventon (talk) 23:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

So i should of have started this same topic there?! Leutrim.P (talk) 23:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

I started it i hope someone responds to the discussion.. Talk:The Self-determination Movement#Moving 'Vetëvendosje' to 'The Self-determination Movement'??, thanks for the fast response. Leutrim.P (talk) 00:04, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

It is better to use WP:RM if the move is likely to be controversial, I don't know if that is likely. If another editor disagrees, they may move it back. TSventon (talk) 00:12, 28 October 2024 (UTC)