Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2006 November 2

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November 2

Boston Tea Party

I need how big one of those tea chests are for a history paper.

Have a look at the external link on the Boston Tea Party page (Boston Teaparty essay). There is a postage stamp showing the men lifting the crates up and throwing them into the sea; so this may give you some idea of the relative size. Also, do you have a tea merchant where you live? If so, go along and ask if you can have a look at a crate. They have not really varied in size over the years.Clio the Muse 01:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

According to this article the crates varied in size. The crate shown here appears to be about 2 feet long by 1.5 feet wide and 1.5 feet deep. Marco polo 01:24, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Chase music

Anyone know the name of the chase music that is usually played in animations? It usually involves the characters running through doors in pursuit of each other. Every time they enter one door they come out of a completely different one and usually change the chasing order. --The Dark Side 01:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Unlike the classical usage of Yakety Sax for sped up chase scenes, I don't think hall of doors scenes have a conventional soundtrack. On a tangent, my favorite example of the scene starts at 2:05 in this animation. Notice that it is backed by original music. Hyenaste ^(tell) 01:58, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Could be the theme from Dick Barton. Cant remember the title.--Light current 02:38, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Just looked it up on something called Wikiapida. [1]--Light current 02:40, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually it is Yakety Sax. And how was I supposed to look that up anyways? Wikipedia doesn't even have an article about chase music. --The Dark Side 02:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It appears that his "just looked it up" comment was about the theme to Dick Barton. --Kainaw ^(talk) 13:52, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, my apologies. What is Wikiapida anyways? --The Dark Side 22:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

1991 Prices

What could I buy in 1991 with 55,000 American dollars? Also, what car could I buy in 1991 with 55,000 American dollars? 204.52.215.2 02:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

If you measure inflation using the Consumer Price Index, $55,000 in 1991 would be worth about $81,000 today. Apparently, a new Cadillac Seville could be bought for $37,000 in 1991, and a new BMW 735i cost about $63,000 in 1991. This gives you a sense of the kind of car that could be bought for that amount. Marco polo 02:23, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

isolated island society

A while back, I read an article (though I can't recall where) which stated there was an island somewhere (i believe in the pacific, though i may be wrong) where there was a small group of primitive people who have no notion of the outside world. As such, a government who is in charge of this island is not allowing study of the people on this island, nor do they let any airplanes fly overhead, lest they be confused and/or frightened. This has been bothering me due to the fact that I cannot figure out anything about this topic. Please help!

Could you be referring to North Sentinel Island? I don't know that aircraft are forbidden, but travel to the island is forbidden (and potentially lethal). I'm not sure that the islanders have "no notion" of the outside world, because there have been hostile encounters, but they cannot know much about the outside world. Marco polo 03:03, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

This reminds me of one of the islands in the Indian Ocean that is under the nominal political control of India. The indigenous population of the island have no contact with the outside world. They will viciously resist any outsiders landing, and will happily murder them if they persist. I read about this during the last Indian parliamentary elections. The Indian officials had no luck in including the natives in the electoral process. I thought it was one of the Andaman Islands or the Nicobar Islands, but our articles say nothing about this. JackofOz 03:39, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

How fascinating - I'd never heard of these people before. Based on my brief overview of the Wikipedia articles, Jack, you're probably thinking of the same North Sentinel Island Marco polo mentions. It's one of the Andaman Islands and the people are the Sentinelese. I edited the Andaman Islands article to mention them. --Grace 12:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I must say North Sentinel Island didn't ring any bells so I didn't even read the article linked to Marcopolo's post. But it does look very much like we're talking about the same place. Cheers. JackofOz 12:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I recall hearing about those islands in connection with the tsunami. Specifically, a list of casualties by island had a question mark next to those islands with a note that aide workers were unable to investigate, due to hostility from the native populations. StuRat 19:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I remember that, not too long ago, I saw something similar on "The Most" on The History Channel. It was about a group of people who were paid by the government of ?The Philipines? to pose as cavemen. Obviosly the press became involved, but a reporter from Stern found some old photos showing one of the people in a modern tribe, and the international prank was foiled. The people involved said the government had agreed to pay them in food, but, if I can remember correctly, they didn't get anything. | AndonicO Talk 22:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Ethnicity of Members of Parliament in Canada

Hi all,

I'm wondering if you know where I could find information about the ethnicity of members of Parliament in Canada. I don't want to look up each MP individually as that would take too much time. I'm interested in seeing how many [insert ethnic group here] are in Parliament. (e.g.: xxx/308 are of English descent, xxx/308 are of Native descent, xxx/308 are Indians, etc etc)

Thanks! Alex Ng 08:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

What kind of positive discrimination would you like to bring amongst them ? -- DLL ^{.. T} 08:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I looked really hard but couldn't find anything, although I'm pretty sure it exists. Why don't you just ask? Anchoress 08:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The Canadian Parliamentary Handbook [2] might be useful, as it contains biographies of all the members and Senators. Unlike the Australian Parliamentary Handbook, the Canadian counterpart doesn't seem to be freely available online, but costs about $100 to purchase a hard copy. JackofOz 12:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Quickest solution might be to email your MP and ask - if the material's trivially available they'll likely know where to find it, and if it's not they can arrange for it to be provided. (For that matter, asking for the past few elections might be useful, too) Shimgray | talk | 12:05, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick replies! I would've thought this information was readily avaliable - I guess not. Thanks for trying so hard though.

Does anyone know how many Aboriginals have been voted into the Canadian House of Commons? and Does anyone know if there was ever an Aboriginal Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development?

Thanks again, Alex Ng 23:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

This Canadian government page has Parliamentary firsts (first Native members, etc...). Why it omits Louis Riel is beyond me, as he was the first Native elected to Parliament. Here are current MPs and current Senators of Native/Métis/Inuit origin. This is an historical list of MPs born outside of Canada - no guarantee of any particular ethnicity, but somewhere to start. Lowerarchy 02:57, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Order of St. Andrew

Olga Lopes-Seale is a dame of the Order of St. Andrew which was awarded to her by Barbados yet the "Order of St. Andrew" says it is Russian (I am confused, help!). Kris the Kangaroo 16:21, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Well according to the PDF attached in the footnote there is a Barbadian honour of the same name. Probably as the Coat of arms of Barbados article says St. Andrew's Day is Barbadian independence day. MeltBanana 17:21, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Really, anybody can create an Order if they want to (but it helps if you're a King). The Russian Order of Saint Andrew is just the most well-known order by that name. --BluePlatypus 17:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I've created a new stub at Order of St. Andrew (Barbados) to discuss the Barbados order, though I'm afraid I know absolutely nothing about the field... Shimgray | talk | 19:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

North Hollywood shootout

Wikipedia has a fine article on this, and we've all seen video of the two bank robbers firing their automatic rifles after the bank robbery. Both the Wikipedia article and TV shows about this event state that police bullets simply deflected off the robbers' body armor. The police had to go to local gun dealers to buy more-powerful weapons. Why didn't the police simply shoot the robbers in the head? The criminals were wearing only cloth hoods on their heads. Are shots to the head forbidden by police rules? ––66.213.33.2 18:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It's just a smaller target. Since the robbers had weapons that could penetrate the police body armor, they would have put themselves at considerable risk trying to get close enough for a head shot. StuRat 19:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It's standard police tactic to aim for the biggest target, in other words, the torso. Hitting the head is harder not only because it's a smaller target but also because it's in motion quite a bit, especially during a gun fight. Also, from what I recall of the article, it only states that the police thought about using the weapons from the gun shop, not that they actually did follow through with that. Maybe I need to reread the article... Dismas|^(talk) 02:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I knew the owner of the gun shop and my understanding is that the police did use his guns. Head shots are not forbidden as far as I know. I had thought the armor also protected their heads. Will try to check back.

Replying to prayer requests

What do I do to people who request people pray for them? On the other hand, their stories are usually so true and sad I genuinely want to comfort them. On the other hand, I am a complete atheist, and proud to be one, and making a false promise to pray for someone just to be nice to them seems articifial, and like cheating them. How should I reply to them? JIP | Talk 19:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

• "I will keep you in my thoughts." --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 19:49, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Less helpful they could read this, though prayer doesn't seem to help positive thinking might: [[3]] --Cody.Pope 19:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Just tell them the truth, that you don't believe in it. Either that or claim you're a Satanist and ask if they still want your prayers. Clarityfiend 20:49, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

A white lie never hurt anyone (by definition), they may feel comforted by you agreeing to, and your not comprimising your atheism, so really to avoid awkward situation and possibly upsetting them, just go with the flow. Philc _T^E_C^I 21:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't pray with them; say that you're an atheist. There are many better ways to comfort people. --Bowlhover 22:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

How are you not "compromising" by lying and completely denying your own beliefs? I can see trying to divert the conversation if the requester were on his/her deathbed, but that's about as far as I would go. Clarityfiend 02:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't pray, but sing a song for them, rejoice with them, telle them you're glad to know them (if true). Some call that prayers. -- DLL ^{.. T} 22:24, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Great suggestion! I do that, too. Singing is about expression and it comes from the heart, while words may conflict with your mind. If you explain this to them then you can even sing religious songs and still remain true to yourself. — Sebastian (talk) 23:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

God hears all prayers, but very often the answer is "no". -- Arwel (talk) 22:56, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Though it depends on the situation, I'm with Phil on this one. Imagine a close friend or loved one on his or her deathbed contemplating what may lie ahead. No matter how devout an Atheist you may be, and no matter how absolute your right is to be one, you'd have to be one cruel bastard to reply: "I have to be honest with you, I'm an Atheist". Loomis 23:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It does not matter what your personal beliefs are: one would need a heart of flint to feel no compassion for a fellow being in distress. What is a prayer but a form of silent contemplation. If God is there he will hear. Clio the Muse 23:35, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Well put, Clio. Though I'm no Christian, if a good friend of mine who happened to be a Christian, in a moment of distress, asked me to make a prayer on his or her behalf to Jesus, I'd do my best to make it seem so, no matter what my personal belief. Loomis 03:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

If they ask you to pray, do what Jpgordon suggests and tell them they'll be in your thoughts, or ask them if there's anything else they need (without telling them you're an atheist). Telling someone bluntly that you're an atheist at such a moment can be seen as egotistical, self-centered, and arrogant, and gives us atheists a bad name. It makes it all about you and your beliefs, not them, and when somebody's in so much distress that they ask other people to pray for them, they should be the priority, not you. I'm not saying that you have to pray for them, but don't do something that could be considered self-absorbed. --Charlene 04:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't consider myself an athiest, but I feel awkward when people ask me to pray for them. I just smile warmly; they feel comforted, and I don't feel awkward anymore. If there is a more physical way you can help, such as running an errand for them, offer to do so as well. Russia Moore 04:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

If someone is on their deathbed, and you don't tell them that you're an atheist, then you've basically lied to this person for his/her whole life. Not something a good friend would do. (If I'm ever put into this situation, I'd say "I have to be honest with you--I'm an atheist. But let's not talk about that. Let's share the wonderful memories that we've had together." --Bowlhover 04:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

In "Kissinger" by Walter Isaacson, it says Nixon, in great turmoil over pressure to resign to avoid impeachment, got Secretary of State Kissenger to get down on his knees and pray with him on Aug 7, 1974. This was not a normal mode of behavior for Kissinger. The awkwardness of the moment has been featured in movies (Nixon (1995), directed by Oliver Stone)and plays. [4][5] Kissenger reportedly called it the most awkward moment of his life. For the most profound athiest in the world, it should be very easy to tell a dying friend, "I will keep you in my thoughts." Edison 15:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

If someone is on their deathbed, and you don't tell them that you're an atheist, then you've basically lied to this person for his/her whole life. Not something a good friend would do. Hm. So instead, you let your good friend enjoy their last moments of life having discovered that their old friend is going to burn in hell, be utterly useless as a sense of spiritual support, and is a liar (or some combination of the above). Why makes you so important that your sudden desire to be honest is more important than your friend's peace of mind in his last hours? As Charlene said above: egocentric. Now, if your friend is asking you to declare yourself as something you don't actually believe, that's something different. But there are times when kindness should trump honesty. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I've told many of my Christian friends that I'm an atheist, yet they don't seem to care much. What makes you believe the dying person will go through a lot of distress? --Bowlhover 00:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't agree more with the last two posts. But take a happier occasion, such as a wedding. Bowlhover, if a dear friend, glowing with love and stricken by the unabashed attraction he has for his new bride, were to ask you: "Isn't she beautiful?", should you happen to disagree, should I take it that you would feel compelled to reply: "As a dear friend, I must be honest with you. I don't think so". Loomis 17:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I'll say "yes, she is pretty". Come to think of it, I don't see anything wrong with an atheist praying. (If there's no God, who's going to hear you pray? Your friend, but he's about do die.) I just recommend trying not to lie. --Bowlhover 00:48, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Since when did being an atheist result in burning in hell? I know of no religion that says that. I'll never be an atheist, but I say it's better to be an honest atheist and live a good life than be a lying, cheating arsehole who goes by the label Christian, Jew, or whatever. Also, praying does not necessarily mean praying to God. It's a thought process between yourself and whatever being, spiritual or human, you choose. And that can include praying to yourself, as a form of meditation. JackofOz 01:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, for quite a few Christian denominations, unless you accept Jesus as your lord and saviour, you're doomed to eternal damnation in hell. Neither would I expect anything less from Islam concerning the fate of "infidels". Apparently, according to a good portion of the world, I'm on my way to hell. Oh well, I'll make sure to send you all postcards. :) Loomis 05:47, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

E-Mail

Hi,

I got an e-mail and I thought he would be in the USA. But there was a +0200 after the date in the header. So is there a way to find out from where he send his e-mail?

The time zone referenced in the email includes Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, the Kaliningrad oblast of Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Egypt, Libya, the eastern portion of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Zambia, Malawi, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Swaziland, Lesotho, and South Africa. There may be a way to pin the location down if you can determine the person's IP address. Marco polo 21:05, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

• Depending on the date when the email was sent, it could also have come from a +0100 country using daylight saving (summer) time. That includes most central and western European countries. --Anonymous, 01:30 UTC, November 3.

If you're using Yahoo! Mail: Open the email, and look at the bottom-right corner (below the delete, reply, etc. buttons). Click on the link that says "Full Headers". It will say something like this:

X-Apparently-To: [email address] via 206.190.39.156; Thu, 02 Nov 2006 13:13:52 -0800

X-Originating-IP: [206.190.38.188]

Return-Path: <[email address]>

Authentication-Results: mta558.mail.mud.yahoo.com from=yahoo.ca; domainkeys=pass (ok)

Received: from 206.190.38.188 (HELO web51409.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.188) by mta558.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; Thu, 02 Nov 2006 13:13:51 -0800

Received: (qmail 91503 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Nov 2006 21:13:51 -0000

[...]

Received: from [72.136.70.187] by web51409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Nov 2006 16:13:50 EST

The last "received" column contains the sender's IP address (in this case 72.136.70.187). After you get the IP address, go here to find out the location. --Bowlhover 21:24, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

However, "Received" lines can be faked, and if someone is trying to trick you, they might do that. The only IP address you can trust for sure is the one in the "from" section of the fisrt "Received" line, or I guess the first one that doesn't show your own site. --Anon, 01:34 UTC, November 3.

Worst mainstream hollywood movie ever made

What is the worse mainstream hollywood movie ever made? My list so far are:

1. Drop dead fred. (1991)
2. Little Man (2006)

202.168.50.40 23:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

On what criteria is this list based? Is it by opinion?  sʟυмɢυм • т • c  23:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't such an assessment always be based upon personal opinion? I would like to think that not one person on this planet has a good word to say about Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot!; but I expect I am wrong.Clio the Muse 23:27, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

If you want a general survey of personal opinions, imdb's bottom 100 list is pretty good: [6] Ziggurat 00:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Or see Films considered the worst ever. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 00:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I had a look at the above list, which features, amongst other gems, the dreadful Che!, starring Omar Sharif. I see that when it was shown in Argentina some among the audience actually threw molotov cocktails at the screen! A particularly trenchant form of cinematic criticism, which, I imagine, could not be bettered. Clio the Muse 08:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

It's not just popular opinion, it's current popular opinion. People tend to define "worst movie" as "worst movie since (year the speaker turned 13)". There were a lot of mainstream Hollywood movies made in the 30s that are just dreadful. --Charlene 03:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I would add Windtalkers to that list. Trust me,it's amazing they spent so much money on that. I guess they didn't have any money left to buy paper to print their script.Evilbu 13:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• It's possible to be somewhat less speculative about a list by nailing down criteria with metrics, but there is always going to be some individual emotional response. I'm sure that a 70 year old German national wouldn't like Why We Fight by Frank Capra. We can ask about financial failures, where amount cost vs. return is a criterion or where money made in total is a criterion. We can ask about those films most agreed upon by actors lists, those directed by Alan Smithee, those with worst technique (worst film, worst focus, worst sound, worst music, worst editing, worst composition), those with the worst performances (Elizabeth Berkeley as, essentially, William Shatner with breasts in Showgirls), the most pedantic, the most absurd, the most disconnected, the most predictable, the worst dialog, etc. There are many, many ways to mess up, and few movies can be bad at everything simultaneously. (The infamously "worst movie ever" of Plan 9 from Outer Space or Robot Monster have horrible technique and acting but cost pennies, made pennies, and used non-actors (almost), so not much could come from those who hadn't much to give, while Ishtar delivers bizarre acting on a wretched script with gorgeous technique but started with a king's ransom and made a pauper's pittance.) Whatever you want to be the worst is probably a bad time, alright, but it's always going to be the visceral revulsion that makes you put one movie below another on the list. Geogre 17:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm surprised Pink Flamingos hasn't rated a mention yet. It is surely the most vile "artistic" creation in the history of the world. JackofOz 01:17, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

What is emotional competence?

what is emotional competence? How can adults foster emotional competence in children? Explain the concept of attachment. What early patterns of attachment have to do with initimate relationshjips later in adulthood?

We have articles on both emotional competence and attachment. Marco polo 23:55, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Mary I

What were the politics of Mary I? 71.97.11.77 23:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)nicholassayshi

Which Mary I? (There are three of them) Clio the Muse 23:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

We have articles on several of them, including Mary I of England. Did you have questions that weren't answered by the appropriate article? Marco polo 23:58, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

"I was first!" "No I was first!" "No I was first!" DirkvdM 08:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Dirk, you noted recently that sometimes our senses humour actually do coincide, which I think is great! Unfortunately though, it would appear that more often than not, they don't. :--) Loomis 22:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)