Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 March 8

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March 8

North Korea part of the WHO's SEA region?

How come North Korea is part of WHO's South-East Asia region here[1] Shouldn’t it be part of the Western Pacific region[2]? Johnson&Johnson&Son (talk) 03:07, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Apparently not. No clue why not. Have you tried contacting that contact info about it? Someone there must know. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:10, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Seems they traded it for Brunei. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:17, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

No hints here. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:19, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Logically, given the political situation in the area, it would make sense not to have North Koreans on the same regional committees as South Koreans and Japanese. If you look at their full lists, you will note various similar arrangements - so Israel is in the European region; Morocco is not in the same region as Algeria; Pakistan is not in the same region as India, and similarly for Malaysia and Indonesia, North and South Sudan, Somalia and Ethiopia. 109.150.174.93 (talk) 10:39, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

109.150.174.93 is probably right. Also, the SEARO HQ is in Delhi, whilst India isn't generally identified as 'South East Asia'. So DPRK inclusion isn't so strange. --Soman (talk) 11:16, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Maybe not strange, but forced division doesn't seem very "United Nations" of them. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:45, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

If there were no Taiping Rebellion in the Qing Dynasty China, would Hong Kong exist?

If there were no Taiping Rebellion started by Hong Xiuquan in the Qing Dynasty, would we have Hong Kong (HK island + Kowloon + New Territories) today? 173.34.246.242 (talk) 04:25, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

In all alternate history, the answer is maybe. Here's some speculation, someone else has some other. Perhaps an opinionated prediction debate will break out, and every side will have some good points. But you'll never know for sure. Ripples make butterflies fly into dominoes. Always a chance of snowballs. That's why the disclaimer at the top here discourages this. Best to just wonder about what actually happened. Most of those answers are out there. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:02, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Hong Kong became a British colony in 1839; the Taiping Rebellion began in 1850. DOR (HK) (talk) 12:00, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I understood the question to focus on the territories ceded later - i.e. 1860 / 1898. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:16, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Interdimensional travel...

voy:Wikivoyage:Joke_articles/Interdimensional_travel

I was finding I was in need of a list of well known alternate universes (inc distopioas) or works that featured interdimensional or inter-plane travel, including mythological ones.

So far I've managed to include Oceania (1984), Discworld, Amber SpyGlass, C.S Lewis etc... but would appreciate some more major science-fiction related works as well. It would also be appreciated if you could suggest which Wikidata items might be appropriate for some entries ( I was using the Wikidata id as the reality 'co-ordinate' if it helps.)

I am putting this in Humanaties, because it's a question about fictional works mostly. I may depending on the response ask separately in the science section for suggestions on 'thought-experiment' worlds that could be mentioned. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:50, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

List of fantasy worlds 109.150.174.93 (talk) 12:42, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Are you counting places like Narnia and Neverland? Is time a dimension? If so, then Time Lords and Tralfamadorians should count as being able to travel through dimensions. --Jayron32 15:49, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Wikivoyage did time travel last year, but you can go update that article if you want. ;) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:42, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Flatland. StuRat (talk) 15:49, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

IMHO, Flatland is a really poor choice. The book's description of the 2D world is inconsistant and doesn't really work in 2D (for example, the world is visualized in "plan view" and buildings have "doors" and "windows" - in 2D, how can a door and a window be in any way different? The world has "rain" - but without a third dimension, and in a plan-view kind of a world - how would that work exactly?). This turgid book is more of a (painful) description of a class-ridden, (horribly sexist) male-dominated world - it's a political/sociological work, and the fact that the world is in 2D hardly matters at all. A vastly better 2D world is The Planiverse - it's well thought out, it's backed by lots of discussions with physicists, it has some awesome diagrams showing how a variety of things function in a 2D universe. It's one of my favorite books. SteveBaker (talk) 17:02, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

The world that Donald Trump seems to live in would make an interesting choice! :-) SteveBaker (talk) 17:02, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

On the difference between door and window in 2D, how about if the door is a long solid segment with a hinge at one corner, while a window is a shorter, partially transparent segment which slides instead of rotating ? StuRat (talk) 00:33, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

But there would be absolutely nothing to prevent you from walking out of a window. So the distinction between window and door would simply cease to exist in such a place. Admittedly, you could "translate" the word for "window" to mean "transparent door" or "sliding door" - but since both of those things are doors in our 3D world, the only significant distinction is that you walk in and out through doors. Flatland is always trotted out as a book about a 2D world - but it's really not. It's a book about class prejudice, meritocracy and the mocking of women. You can read it from cover to cover and learn essentially nothing about 2D worlds...but reading it at all is extremely painful! By modern standards, it's not a good book of any kind! On the other hand, The Planiverse is an intelligent look at the problems of 2D worlds - how animals could eat and excrete without falling into two halves, for example. How a simple piece of string laid over a doorway is enough to eventually suffocate everyone inside! I defy anyone with the slightest curiosity not to look at the drawing of the 2D steam engine and not spend an unreasonable amount of time figuring out how it works! It should be on all curious peoples "must read" list. SteveBaker (talk) 17:18, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Our 3D windows also often function as doors, as doorwalls and when a window to a fire escape is used. So, there's a continuum between doors and windows, even in our world. However, in 2D, an opening too small for the occupants to fit through or a transparent line segment that doesn't open (like glass blocks in our universe) or a window on the ceiling would all prevent usage as a door. StuRat (talk) 19:35, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

You should probably trawl through List of fantasy worlds - it'll jog some memories if nothing else!

I'd advise also looking at List of fictional location types which would allow you to consider a wider selection of types of location.

An obvious one is Ringworld - but instead I'd suggest The Smoke Ring (novel) (also by Larry Niven) - a "99% physically reasonable" world that's weirder than anything I could possibly come up with, and far, FAR more mind-bending than RingWorld! SteveBaker (talk) 17:02, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

From the point of view of interdimensional travel, Barsoom would make a good choice. Getting there seems to mostly involve staring off into the distance in some ill-defined manner. SteveBaker (talk) 17:07, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

It must be inhabited mainly by writers, then.  :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 17:21, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I'd disagree that Niven's Ringworld and The Smoke Ring fit the OP's stated criteria; they're works of fairly "hard" Science Fiction which attempt to depict worlds which might possibly exist in the future according to known science plus a few "allowed developments" like FTL travel, but certainly don't involve interdimensional travel.

There are many, many possibilities within Science Fiction, Fantasy and Dystopian literature (which of course are not mutually exclusive). One which springs readily to mind not yet mentioned is Roger Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber in which interdimensional travel is the entire basis of the series.

The OP might like to explore The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction which is freely accessible online and has relevant articles on Themes and Terminologies, and its companion The Encyclopedia of Fantasy which is similarly available and similarly structured. (The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 5.66.243.108 (talk) 17:49, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

The question didn't seem to limit the answers to places reachable only by interdimensional travel - I read is as: "a list of well known alternate universes (inc distopioas)"...OR..."works that featured interdimensional or inter-plane travel". Since our universe disallows things like FTL travel - I'd argue that RingWorld and The Smoke Ring are "alternate" universes with clearly different laws of physics. But I agree that it's debatable!

On that note, The Planiverse is about contacting an alternate universe rather than travelling there - but the means of contact is decidedly different from many others. (Essentially, the humans write a computer program that (by coincidence) is a reasonably accurate simulation of the 2D world - and somehow this "connects" to the actual place. So they can communicate back and forth with the 2D world via keyboard and screen.) It's really unclear how you'd be able to travel to such a place because smooshing your 3D brain into 2D would certainly be 100% fatal! SteveBaker (talk) 18:05, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

SteveBaker, I'll write a note about being able to observe but not necessarily visit Planiverses.. BTW I would appreciate people seeing this thread contributing over at Wikivoyage :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:54, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Keith Laumer does this in the Worlds of the Imperium and Lafayette Leary series. H. Beam Piper has his Paratime series. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:16, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Then there's the granddaddy of them all, "Sidewise in Time" by Murray Leinster. That article, by the way, includes a lot of other examples in the Influence section. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:22, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Don't forget to visit Nethack - you won't find a better place to shop for gifts! Pick up a ring of teleportation on the cheap and bring it back for that special coworker who can make your workplace much more pleasant by being somewhere else. While Trump fans may want to spend the extra mile to bring back a scroll of genocide. :) Wnt (talk) 00:26, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Birth before/after stories

• The New Testament includes many interactions and conversations between angels and humans. For instance, three separate cases of angelic interaction deal with the births of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ. In Luke 1:11, an angel appears to Zechariah to inform him that he will have a child despite his old age, thus proclaiming the birth of John the Baptist. And in Luke 1:26 the archangel Gabriel visits the Virgin Mary in the Annunciation to foretell the birth of Jesus Christ. Angels then proclaim the birth of Jesus in the Adoration of the shepherds in Luke 2:10.
• The book of Genesis also states, Abraham meets with three angels; the task of one of the angels was to inform Abraham of his coming child. – don’t know where it states? Quotation sought too.

  See Abraham --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:39, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Do you guys know any other religious and or mythological stories, along with quotation(s)?

Apostle (talk) 18:18, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

In the Bible specifically? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:22, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

-- Apostle (talk) 08:16, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Not clear if you are only interested in birth/angel stories or just angel stories. Loads are in the Old Testament. Here's a sample:

• Ishmael's rescue, in Genesis
• Lot and his family in Sodom, in Genesis
• Jacob's wrestling match, in Genesis
• Angel of death's intervention during the Exodus in, erm, Exodus
• Gideon's selection and his test of divine favour, in the book of Judges.
• Samson's birth story, also in Judges
• Job's unfortunate adversary in the book of <ahem>

--Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:36, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

If the gods of Mt. Olympus count as angels, they don't just wander down to herald mortal pregnancies, but to cause them. Zeus was particularly notorious, but Poseidon was perhaps much busier. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:28, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Lol. Nope. -- Apostle (talk) 19:33, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Sorry. Birth/angels stories for every single religion and mythology. -- Apostle (talk) 19:33, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

In the Quran 19:19 Jibrayil (Gabriel) says to Maryam (Mary) "He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son." Also Ibrahim (Abraham) is mentioned as having angels visit him to tell of a son 15:53 and 11:71. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 00:28, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

In the fairy tale, "The Pink", a queen wishes for a baby, and an angel tells her she'll have a wishing baby. Then when she's framed by a cook for letting him be eaten, angels sneak her food in her tower. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:38, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

The exact message was "Gib dich zufrieden, du sollst einen Sohn haben mit wünschlichen Gedanken, denn was er sich wünscht auf der Welt, das wird er erhalten." Probably Enochian. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:21, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

-- Apostle (talk) 08:16, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

That story appears in the little-known book of the Bible called 3 Corinthians. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:55, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Peeps, what about Muhammad? Plus, any other believable/unbelivable stories would be helpful too. - only one fairy tale is here...

Baseball Bugs: If the biblical info is not available in this post then let me know, along with its quotation(s)

Everyone, thank you all; so far. Sorry for the delay, I was tired and .

Apostle (talk) 08:16, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Peter the Great

Hi, does anybody know of any academic articles that deal specifically with whether Peter had a coherent vision for Russia. I can find many that discuss whether he deserves to be titled 'the Great', less on this, the subject of my essay? Any help appreciated, just need the right reading for my work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.99.241 (talk) 18:59, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't know whether you'd call this an "academic article", but it's from the History Learning Site. That's a great title. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:15, 9 March 2016 (UTC)