Language desk
< April 7	<< Mar \| April \| May >>	April 9 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

April 8

What Japanese dialect is this?

In the anime TV series Nisekoi, one particular character, Marika Tachibana, will speak with a non-standard Japanese accent when she is flustered (a sample of this can be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKKNb2HxXOk). However, sources seem to present conflicting information as to which dialect this is, with some sources saying it is a Kyushu dialect (a southern Japanese island) while other sources saying it is a Kansai dialect (Osaka and surrounding areas). Can someone shed some light on which dialect this actually is? 98.116.73.98 (talk) 05:22, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Japanese article says it's a Kyushu dialect. I'm not great with dialects but it doesn't sound like a Kansai dialect to me. I suspect the people calling it Kansai are thinking Kansai=western. -- BenRG (talk) 08:59, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds like Hiroshima dialect, to me, which is very similar to Kyushu dialect. Hiroshima and Kyushu are even further west that the Kansai region of Osaka, Kyoto, and Kobe.

KägeTorä - (影 虎) (もしもし！)

09:43, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Palmistry

Hello friends,

View this link please [1], 1st paragraph, I don't understand/can't differentiate the three catagories. View this link also [2], you'll get the idea...

Can someone please fill the followings for me

Chiromency:

Chirognomy:

Dermatoglyphics:

Regards.

(Mr. Prophet (talk) 11:48, 8 April 2015 (UTC))[reply]

(I reformatted your links for greater convenience; hope that's okay.) At first glance, it appears that chiromancy is the broader term, with sub-disciplines chirognomy (bumps) and dermatoglyphics (lines). —Tamfang (talk) 07:07, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! Hope you are well. I lost your URL...I was typing 'Timfang' and the link was coming red...(non of your concern). Anyway, thank you, I understand. Different websites say different things...I was just confused. I'll leave it as it is instead of understanding them individually.

Btw, that thing is automatic. I deleted it as I recalled you correcting it the last time, it reappeared... -- (Mr. Prophet (talk) 06:07, 10 April 2015 (UTC))[reply]

Learn Spanish

Hi, I wish to learn Spanish. Can anyone suggest some good websites that teaches Spanish for free? --Joseph 13:44, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Try www.sharedtalk.com - it's a website that allows you to interact with native speakers and other learners. It's a chat site, but not the usual stuff that you get on the internet about sex and all that nonsense, it's actually for people who are interested in learning and in helping others learn.

KägeTorä - (影 虎) (もしもし！)

13:59, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at Duolingo, when you've learned Spanish, according to the site, you can learn 'Irish' - whatever that means, probably Irish Gaelic. Richard Avery (talk) 14:44, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Irish language#Names --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 02:43, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I enjoyed Destinos. http://www.learner.org/series/destinos/ --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 02:41, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

See, I'm an absolute beginner in Spanish. So, please suggest some websites for beginners that I could learn from the alphabets. --Joseph 13:44, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sesame Street. Spanish only has one alphabet, and they teach it there.

KägeTorä - (影 虎) (もしもし！)

16:33, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's a mistake to think one can learn a spoken language by starting from a book or website. Instruction by and correction from a fluent speaker is essential. Websites and other adjuvants are fine, but they cannot hear and correct what you are saying wrong. Nor can they truly assess your comprehension. I'd see if a local Introduction to Spanish professor will let you audit the class. Of course you'd have to get the book, but if you know what it will be ahead of time you can get it from the library. μηδείς (talk) 02:06, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Portuguese lyrics

Hello, I came across this video and really like this song which starts at 26:50. It's in Portugese but unfortunatelly I don't understand a word of it's lyrics. I'd be very grateful if anyone could help me identify the song or at least write some parts of it's lyrics. Thank you in advance. :) Atacamadesert12 (talk) 18:19, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's a classic of brazilian music: País Tropical, by Jorge Ben Jor, 1969. There are many covers.Cfmarenostrum (talk) 20:02, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's followed by Fio Maravilha (or "Filho Maravilha") and Taj Mahal from the same composer. I used to have a medley of these 3 songs on some compilation ages ago.Cfmarenostrum (talk) 20:10, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much, you made my day! :) Atacamadesert12 (talk) 06:56, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

seventh heaven

When was the term "seventh heaven" first used in the English language? What is its meaning?--Christie the puppy lover (talk) 18:21, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

See Seven Heavens. The concept is older than the English language; the earliest mention, I think, is in the Ascension of Isaiah. According to ancient Jewish legend, there are seven heavens, and the seventh is the highest and most glorious, the closest to God. Figuratively, someone is said to be "in the seventh heaven" if he/she is exceedingly happy. - Lindert (talk) 19:06, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Basically equivalent to "hog heaven". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:04, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! You made me really happy with your answers.--Christie the puppy lover (talk) 18:54, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

learning

What's the best way to learn weird languages that don't follow normal grammar rules? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PlumpPumpking (talk • contribs) 19:00, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

All languages have grammar - and what appears 'weird' will depend on previous experience. If you specify the language in question, and languages you already know, we may be able to provide a better answer. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:08, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If you are only at the point where you think that 'normal grammar rules' only exist in English, I would suggest you go to a library, or get on the internet, and try to find out how all languages - as said above - have their own grammar rules. You can even use Wikipedia to do that, after all, we are an encyclopaedia.

KägeTorä - (影 虎) (もしもし！)

20:01, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Eats, Shoots & Leaves

Can you give me of an example of a phrase like "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" in a non-English language that has the same kind of multiple interpretations — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.84.26.87 (talk) 19:08, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It would likely have to consist of words that have double meanings. That's easy to do in English, being such a hodge-podge, but maybe not so easy in more homogeneous languages. There can be puns in other languages, though. Such as Mazorca vs. mas horca under Juan Manuel de Rosas. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:22, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There's a short story sometimes used in Spanish classes about a will that is lacking in punctuation: El Testamento de don Facundo. --Amble (talk) 23:25, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Amble's link is laugh out loud good, but it doesn't have an English translation. μηδείς (talk) 01:00, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Here is someone's Master's Degree Thesis on this very topic, it has cites to a wealth of literature covering the topic in both English and in other languages. It's a solid start for your research. --Jayron 32 01:04, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese "must" or "have to"

Hi, I'm trying to learn how to say must in Japanese. I think I understand how to say it, I just need a check over it.

So, to say for example, [I] must buy [it], any of these would be correct:

買う:

買わなくてはだめ
買わなくてはいけない
買わなくてはならない
-
買わないとだめ
買わないといけない
買わないとならない
-
買わなければだめ
買わなければいけない
買わなければならない
-
買わなくちゃ
買わなきゃ
買わないと

If I want the past tense, I change いけない to いけなかった, ならない to ならなかった, and add だった to the remaining ones?

And if I want the polite versions I change いけない to　いけません, ならない to なりません, and add です to the remaining ones?

Have I got any of this right? 2A02:8084:9300:A80:A058:5739:BD1E:B1E5 (talk) 20:00, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's basically all correct. Any combination of ～なくては = ～なくちゃ, ～なければ = ～なきゃ, or ～ないと with だめ, いけない, ならない or nothing is okay; that's 20 combinations of which you listed only 12. I was going to say that there are no past or polite forms of your last group (the "nothing" option), but I just searched the web for "買わなきゃだった" and friends and found examples of all of them, so never mind. If you actually want to use these in conversation, I'd stick to ～なくては or ～なければ plus (forms of) いけない or ならない. -- BenRG (talk) 22:10, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's great to hear. Thanks. 2A02:8084:9300:A80:A058:5739:BD1E:B1E5 (talk) 23:01, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Strange things among English irregular verbs (2nd part)

Good morning or good evening everybody. Recently I asked a strange question using a copy of a book; unfortunately the image was removed for strange ideas about copyright. My question was here:[3].

Now I'm nearly sure that the verbs in bold letters are more important, more frequently used than the others. Somebody made the remark:"Unfortunately, it is impossible for us, both native or not, to confirm whether your insight is correct or not. Is it possible to reload the scan to a third-party image hosting and give a link?--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 04:42, 27 March 2015 (UTC)".

Because of this bug with the copyright, or I'd better say, thanks to it, I created a Facebook account and inserted the "forbidden" copy that you can see here:<link to copyright violation removed>

The real question under the picture should be:"I'd like to know if the verbs in BOLD letters are more frequently used than the other ones". Thank you all from Reims, the capital city of Champagne in France.Cheers.--Jojodesbatignoles (talk) 20:16, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the links listed at wikt:Wiktionary:Frequency lists might be helpful.

—Wavelength (talk) 20:25, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think that the boldfaced verbs are necessarily more frequently used than the others. For example, I don't think burn or hide are in more frequent use than feed or hang. All of the verbs on your page, except maybe breed and broadcast are in very frequent use, and even breed and broadcast are what I would call common words. I notice that your page omits some of the more obscure irregular verbs, such as bid or dare. I would say that for proficiency in English, you need to learn all of the verbs in this list. Marco polo (talk) 21:09, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dare? Surely that has become a regular weak verb in Standard English these days. Wiktionary labels durst archaic. Deor (talk) 21:26, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the bold ones are deemed even more irregular? —Tamfang (talk) 07:02, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Just for your information. There is a couple of image sharing sites where you do not need registration. I personally prefer postimage.org, it is minimalistic, has little or no ads and does not "publish" your uploaded images to everybody (there is no "recently uploaded" public gallery).--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 09:13, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I meditated a little on your list and noticed that verb in bold face are more numerous than in normal. So the question is rather about normal-faced verbs. Maybe the bold-faced verbs are used in the book itself? Probably, you'd better ask the authors directly? I googled and found an e-mail [4] of one of the authors.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 09:35, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My sense is that the bolded verbs are ones for which there is a more detailed article or a conjugation table somewhere further in the book (I assume the picture is taken from a Bescherelle-type conjugation manual). It's a common typographical convention. --Xuxl (talk) 10:17, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese names pronounced in Japanese

What I've already found out is that there is the On-reading of Kanji in Japanese written in hiragana and a modern way closer to today's Chinese pronunciation written in katakana. My question is about the latter method. Since it's based on pronunciation instead of characters, can you say that any pinyin syllable can be given in katakana (not necessarily vice versa because I know -ng becomes reduced to -n) with some sort of structure? Is there a guide for it? It seems ー is often used whereas there is no vowel length distinction in Chinese. --2.245.140.128 (talk) 23:27, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

According to the article here, which might be of interest, "there is no universally recognized standard" for transcribing modern Chinese names into Japanese kana. The sounds in Chinese and Japanese are very different, and Japanese is also relatively limited in its inventory of sounds. The rendering of Chinese names in standard kana will necessarily involve some kind of approximation (as it does in the case of transcription from other languages, such as English). Additional kana combinations (not present in Japanese words) have been devised purely for transcription purposes (see Transcription into Japanese). I have mostly seen these used for English words; I don't know how useful they would be for Chinese. 109.145.180.118 (talk) 11:22, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If Japanese is limited by its inventory of sounds does that mean that it is easier (or more accurate) to transcribe Japanese names into Chinese? -- Q Chris (talk) 15:23, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Both languages have their limitations, but Japanese names aren't transcribed into Chinese anyway. Since Japanese names are written in Kanji (Chinese characters), they are just pronounced the Chinese way, which often sounds very different. It's only the Japanese, who now have two options. --2.245.188.114 (talk) 18:37, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't Chinese have any way of indicating (at least roughly) how a Japanese name should be pronounced, in cases when the pronunciation is quite different from the normal modern Chinese reading of the characters? 109.145.180.118 (talk) 22:52, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately not at all and it normally doesn't matter when Chinese talk to Chinese. You never have sound indication, but you get the meaning of the name because the characters share more or less the same basic meaning although pronounced differently. Same for Korean names in Chinese. The official guide "Names of the World's Peoples" by the Xinhua News Agency (you can find a table for English on Transcription into Chinese) is intended for languages not influenced by Chinese. You may use the same method for Japanese, but I've never seen it. Sound transcriptions would have more syllables and take up more space though. --2.245.188.114 (talk) 00:07, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I once worked for a lawyer specializing in visas. One client with dual citizenship gave transliterations of his name from both Chinese and Japanese, for the same characters. I wish I had saved a note of it! —Tamfang (talk) 09:14, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 April 8

Contents