Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 March 28

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March 28

How far does land ownership extend?

If I own a plot of land do I own everything underground all the way down to the center of the earth?--109.153.32.31 (talk) 00:53, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

This depends on the legal jurisdiction. In some places "mineral rights" are owned by others. I doubt if any jurisdiction actually specifies that you own everything down to the center of the Earth, but it may be left undefined, in which case it's yours as far down as you can go. However, such rights could be taken away by courts and/or later legislation. StuRat (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Here's an interesting explanation of the ownership rights in land as defined in by the Government of Alberta, Canada. They would be similar across the country. Bielle (talk) 01:26, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

So if I was to say, create a underground superstructure, would the government be able to take it from me should the relevant legislation be amended? I only ask because I am planning on construction my own underground bunker to house my collection of AMRAAM/ASRAAMs. I've managed to build up quite a collection now, including the AIM-9 sidewinder and AIM-132, but it is just getting to big to store in my home. Any help with my dilemma would be appreciated.--109.153.32.31 (talk) 01:37, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

If you're storing missiles on your property, mineral rights questions are the least of your worries. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:39, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

They came with the manual so I think I know what I'm doing thanks for your concern though.--109.153.32.31 (talk) 01:44, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Since handguns are illegal in the UK, I guess you had to settle for missiles, eh? Oh, that reminds me... Scotland Yard might be paying you a friendly little visit. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:53, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh, do you happen to have the AIM-54 Phoenix LRM and would you be willing to trade it for my Exocet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.29.142.213 (talk)

When I bought land in Victoria, Australia 40 years ago the title said I owned it down to 50 feet below the surface. HiLo48 (talk) 02:44, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

If you drilled down far enough, the old saw is that you might strike oil. But forgetting that, if you drilled down far enough, might you end up with a volcano in your back yard? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:54, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Theoretically, yes, but the reality is that the drill bit would melt or break when it got too hot. StuRat (talk) 04:24, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I expect there's some way around that little problem. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:35, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm surprised that no one has linked to our article on the subject, Cuius est solum eius est usque ad coelum et ad inferos, which has been confirmed as a principle of English law. (The OP's IP geolocates to England.) Marco polo (talk) 14:09, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, an interesting article, but it has limited validity even here in the UK. The crown hold gold and silver mining rights, and I think mining rights for coal are held by the government and administered by the "coal Authority", and ownership of oil and gas within the land area of Great Britain was vested in the Crown by the Petroleum (Production) Act 1934.

But there's always a silver lining. For those who think Latin's a dead language, there's proof that it's alive and well. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 18:36, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

See also The Man Who Sold the Moon. --Trovatore (talk) 19:13, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't think the doctrine's as dead as you think it is. Certainly the doctrine's got a lot of statutory law that affects it (I can't tax airplanes that fly over my land) but I'd be amazed if a British land owner who suddenly discovered oil (or something valuable) under his land had to give all those royalties to the government. Or maybe I have more faith in the British than some British? Shadowjams (talk) 06:47, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Mineral rights are often separated from the freehold of the surface, especially in historic mining areas. In Cornwall (where I grew up, and used to have a job recording particulars of land sales for the Valuation Office) it's very rare for a freeholder to own the mineral rights below their land. DuncanHill (talk) 07:04, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Hwy 80

When I was on Tybee Island,Ga. last month,I noticed an information sign on Hwy 80. It said something about the missing 600 or something to that effect. I am curious as to what that refers to. Can anyone help? Thank you in advance for calming my brain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cryssie1956 (talk • contribs) 02:12, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

See Selma to Montgomery marches. Nanonic (talk) 02:37, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Nanonic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cryssie1956 (talk • contribs) 15:56, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Cure for Zombie bite

If a Zombie bites me, is there any cure for it? 212.169.188.25 (talk) 02:20, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

It would be the same treatment as if you got bit by Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:31, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

OK, lil' aspie. I reformulate: If a fictional zombie bites a fictional human, what can the human do to cure himself?.212.169.188.25 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:33, 28 March 2011 (UTC).

If you get bit by an aspie, now that's serious trouble. But given your scenario, the answer is simple: the fictional human goes to a fictional doctor and gets a fictional treatment. If that's insufficient, perhaps the Zombie article will have some useful info? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:36, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I meant aspie not aspie. The article Zombie doesn't seem to have any useful information. Anyway, you apparently don't know of any real fictional treatment. Could it be that no author ever considered it? 212.169.188.25 (talk) 02:41, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Are you maybe thinking of vampire bites? In any case, the Bite article alludes to risks that human bites can cause, which can be useful for so-called "zombies" of the Haitian variety. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:43, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

The film article on Night of the Living Dead has links to some other articles that might be more useful than the Zombies article is. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:47, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm not afraid of becoming a vampire. I just don't want to become a zombie. 212.169.188.25 (talk) 02:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

You won't become a zombie if you take precautions. For example, try to avoid meetings with insurance salesmen, and don't watch infomercials.

One advantage to being a vampire is that your odds are much better than a zombie's are, for picking up chicks.

Anyway, one of the links in NOTLG is something about "zombies in popular culture", which might give some info. But is there anything that explains why a zombie bite should be fatal? Or is it just that it's a human bite? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:52, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

A couple of reasons zombie bites are fatal. The primary reason, of course, is that the zombies are trying to eat you, so zombie bites are going to involve chunks of flesh being removed. The secondary reason (not always applicable) is that some zombie infestations are caused by viruses that spread through bites, blood, and other close contact. If that's the kind of zombie you're dealing with, a bite is all but a death warrant. Finally, even when no Z-Virus is involved, zombie bites tend to get infected quickly. Probably because the mouth of a rotting corpse is full of germs. APL (talk) 05:26, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Old-time real-life mad scientist Pasteur injected rabies into an animal's tail, then amputated it soon after, and the rabies did not spread to cause a fatal infection. The following is only a fictional speculation and not medical advice: If a Zombie bit your appendage, is it possible that prompt amputation would prevent Zombieism? Has this been used as a fictional treatment? Edison (talk) 03:21, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I believe it was tried in the "Walking Dead" comic books, I don't recall if it was effective. It was attempted in the webcomic "Dead Winter" without success. (Ref:Dead Winter #384).

In some older movies, like "Night of the Living Dead", all recently dead individuals become zombies though an unknown mechanism (even those buried before the zombie event occurred.), and zombie bites have no special power. In those movies, a zombie bite should be treated as you would treat any other animal bite.

In newer movies, zombies are usually the result of a virus. It's often described as similar to a very fast-acting variant of rabies. (ref:World War Z) Once you're infected by the Z-Virus, you're in tough shape, though, as noted, chopping off a limb at least give you hope. However, don't panic, some people seem to be naturally resistant to the Z-Virus (Ref:Left 4 Dead). So if you're bitten take appropriate precautions and isolate yourself from other survivors, but don't kill yourself, or place yourself in a position where you'd be trapped if your companions became infected but you didn't.

Finally, for an isolated case with access to advanced medical facilities, you might try the Milwaukee protocol. However, that has a low success rate for rabies, so I wouldn't put much faith in it's chances against the Z-Virus. Probably what would happen is that he patient would appear to be cured, but after he was brought out of it he would bit one of the doctors who would foolishly not tell anyone he'd been bitten out of fear of being quarantined. The end of civilization would come no more than two weeks later.

Hope this helps. For more information along these lines I recommend the books written by Max Brooks.

APL (talk) 04:37, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article about Zombie. Zombies are fictional but some people put on zombie makeup. If one of them bites you, I would be inclined to bite it back. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 07:56, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I would make a formal complaint to the police to try and have them charged with assault. Nil Einne (talk) 21:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

See Living_Dead#Infection --Reference Desker (talk) 13:06, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Noooo, Zombies are real. They're alive, and I'm sure you could get insurance against them (even if it is a bit paranoid). Personally, I'd worry more about being shot by the Prince of Darkness. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:24, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I thought Ozzy was the PoD. Googlemeister (talk) 12:51, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm, the cure for bite by a Obama Zombie is to vote Republicans, and the cure for bite by a Zombie-Con is to vote Democrats. Alternatively you can vote third parties, so there will be no possibility of zombie bites. --Reference Desker (talk) 15:09, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Solar Power

In the UK there is a company called 'Green-Sun' wanting to sell me roof mounted solar panels to generate electricity. Has anyone any experience of this company that they might care to share with me please?--85.211.237.136 (talk) 05:52, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

This is a reference desk. GreenSun Energy is a relatively new company delivering a relatively new technology, so it is unlikely that anyone here has first-hand experience of them. You would be better off asking in a specialized forum or using a search engine to find impartial advice.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:39, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

IMHO investing in something so expensive requires a broader look at the market, beyond one company that attracts your attention. See this site for some general things to think about. You will also see on this site that a survey showed that 10 out of 14 solar energy companies exaggerated the gains of their product. Additionally the govenment has renegued on its previous agreement to Feed-in-Tariff (FIT) payment rates [1]. I know this doesn't directly answer your question but may help your overview. Richard Avery (talk) 07:44, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Green Sun is suddenly a popular name. I found companies using the name in Arizona, Jerusalem and Egypt. This is the website of Green Sun Ltd. in Farnborough, UK. I have no experience of their service but you can ring their free number and ask whether they will name any previous customers. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 07:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

When buying anything as expensive as this, shop around and get quotes to compare. And, yes, do ask each company to name a previous customer you can talk to - it's standard practice and if they won't do it you should worry. Itsmejudith (talk) 09:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I'd think they might have a shill on hand just for such referrals, who would swear the solar panels provided unlimited energy for free and also cured his cancer. StuRat (talk) 21:22, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I'd be cautious of any business which contacts you:

1) Disreputable companies have to do this, as they can't get business from referrals/word-of-mouth and repeat customers.

2) Reputable companies that do this have higher marketing costs, and must pass those on the their customers. StuRat (talk) 21:22, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking that they would get the name and address of the person and go and see them with a list of questions in hand. You really do need to do a lot of research before buying photovoltaics. One way to find a company is to start off by finding someone in your area who has a system and asking them where they got it from. You should be very sure indeed before you buy a system based on "the latest" technology. The things you need to sort out include: framed or unframed panels, mounted on or in the roof or on a separate array, fixing system, how large the array, type of inverter, permission to connect to the grid - and more. There are some OK companies in the UK, they tend to have done one or two notable installations that you can read about in the press. Itsmejudith (talk) 13:22, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Members of the British Photovoltaic Association but that is only one indicator of reputability. Itsmejudith (talk) 13:27, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Find out all the solar panel companies that serve your area, by using Yell dot com or the online Thomson Directory etc. Then find out which may be more or less reputable. Of the more reputable ones, ask several of them to provide a written quotation. 92.15.8.176 (talk) 15:33, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Slow combustion fireplaces

Where can I find a list of slow combustion fireplaces which are approved according to European standards? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.213.20.222 (talk) 08:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Of Formula 1 drivers in the US and drinking

The legal age for drinking in the US is 21. Although it hasn't happened yet,there is a distinct possibility that a driver under 21 could finish on the podium at the US Grand Prix-where they are given the usual bottles of champagne-so what would happen then? Would they have to be given something different or would the laws regarding supplying alcohol to a minor be disregarded in this case? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemon martini (talk • contribs) 11:22, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

While all U.S. states prohibit the purchase of alcoholic beverages by individuals under the age of 21, there is a patchwork of rules regarding whether or not those individuals may consume alcohol. Many states carve out exceptions for underage individuals who are in the family home, or who are drinking in the presence of their parents or guardians. For example, in Texas (this is just the first example where I could find the statute), under the Alcoholic Beverage Code, Section 106.04. Consumption of Alcohol by a Minor, part (b):

(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the alcoholic beverage was consumed in the visible presence of the minor's adult parent, guardian, or spouse.

Regardless of legality, I suspect that the event (and its sponsors) would be unlikely to supply alcohol to an underage individual, simply because it's one of those things that provokes needless and ridiculous moral outrage from a very small but extremely noisy subset of the U.S. population.

In a related situation, I recall that I caught the end of a World Poker Tour event on television a few years ago. The events are (or were, at the time) sponsored by a large U.S.-based brewery, and it was traditional for the final table participants to all raise a bottle and toast the sponsor right before the closing credits. The event I saw was taking place somewhere sunny and warm, outside the United States—maybe the Caribbean, but definitely somewhere with a legal drinking age well below that of the U.S. One of the contestants was of legal age to participate in the competition, but only nineteen or twenty years old. During the closing sequence, all of the other players duly received their bottle of beer and raised it for the camera; the young guy was left there with his arms at his sides looking awkward. (If there's a better inadvertent advertisement for "Drinking will help you fit in with the cool, older, smarter, richer folks", I haven't seen it.) If he had received his perfectly-legal bottle of beer, I'm sure that there would have been complaints to the FCC about how the World Poker Tour encouraged underage drinking—never mind that the kid was old enough to risk thousands of dollars in professional poker tournaments. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:02, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

And then there's the Indianapolis 500 option: give the winners a bottle of milk. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:26, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

As stated laws vary by state. In Michigan, the hypothetical driver could be charged as a "minor in possession" if he had a blood alcohol level of 0.02 (you know, internal posssesion of alcohol) - and would lose his driver's license, even if he was at a party nowhere near a car, much less driving.[2] It used to be popular for young Michiganders to drive over to Ontario for the lower drinking age before this law and the 9/11 border restrictions. Rmhermen (talk) 13:42, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

As sponsor of 10 of the about 45 drivers in NASCAR, Coca Cola is often drunk after wins in that racing series. Any non-alcoholic drink sponsors in F1? Rmhermen (talk) 14:06, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

They already use a non-alcoholic drink in places like Bahrain where it is banned. For nob-alcoholic drinks sponsors there is Red Bull with Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso and there is a large list that I didn't go through at Formula One sponsorship liveries. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 15:50, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Harrods electric lorries

When I lived on Sloane Ave just off Brompton Road in the mid sixties I would often see green delivery vans painted in Harrods livery. They were almost silent because they were electric. The neighbors said the garage was right nearby pointing towards Harrods. Where was that garage? and where are those vans now? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sesquepedalia (talk • contribs) 14:14, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Harrods' garaging has been on Brompton Place for many years (see, e.g. [3]). However, the store's depository was at 60 Sloane Avenue ([4]), which would explain why you saw so many of its vans. Apparently the vans were withdrawn in 1967, but there is one in the Science Museum, and another at the National Motor Museum. Warofdreams talk 15:49, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

insurance

Also, is it possible to get insurance against being murdered by a 'sex dwarf'?Jeremy Wordsworth (talk) 15:11, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I have always heard that Lloyds of London will insure almost any risk.Chief41074 (talk) 16:20, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Is this a particularly pressing concern to you at the moment? Lemon martini (talk) 16:35, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

The OP might be the same guy who was worried about being bitten by a zombie. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:05, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't regular life insurance work? Why would one need to be insured against a specific cause of death? Qrsdogg (talk) 18:25, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

What the hell's a "sex dwarf"? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 18:30, 28 March 2011 (UTC) (And I'll verily smite the first person who tells me we have an article on everything.)

New to me too. Some hints here, not sure if those are related to what the OP trying to say. --Reference Desker (talk) 18:33, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Mini-Me? Clarityfiend (talk) 21:17, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Sex Dwarf!!! (I shall consider myself verily smited.) Mitch Ames (talk) 13:38, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

We'll be having no further contributions from you, then, Mitch. :) -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:54, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Try these guys. --Tango (talk) 22:08, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Pens for tempering process

After quenching process is followed by tempering process. Are there any non-destructive test to know that tempering is completed or not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavendrakrishnasingh (talk • contribs) 22:42, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Is "pens" the correct word ? StuRat (talk) 23:05, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I Think he's hoping for some kind of "test pen" like those used for testing folding money for counterfeit.190.148.134.151 (talk) 02:13, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Old People Acid Movie

So there was this movie where after a certain age people are administered LSD to control them or something so that young people control the world. It's like a b-movie and it existed five or six years ago. Does anyone have any idea what movie this is? 138.192.151.87 (talk) 23:57, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Wild in the Streets. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:03, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Not the answer to the question, but a book with a vaguely related plot is Boomsday (novel), in which "financially inviable Baby Boomers [are] given incentives (free Botox, no estate tax) to kill themselves at age seventy". Mitch Ames (talk) 13:34, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

As an extreme in that vein is Logan's Run. --Jayron32 22:02, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Zippo Fumes Toxic?

After lighting my Zippo loaded with their standard lighter fluid in a room, I can smell the burnt lighter fluid product. Is the inhalation of this gas toxic? Acceptable (talk) 23:57, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Any sort of combustion will consume oxygen, leading to the possibility of asphyxiation. You can basically ignore this risk in all but the smallest places with a flame the size of a lighter. More dangerously, some amount of Incomplete combustion may occur, in which case more dangerous products like carbon monoxide and soot will be produced. Soot, of course, is just a catch all for all sorts of particulates and aromatic hydrocarbons, most of which aren't good for you. A well maintained lighter operated in an environment with normal amounts of oxygen should burn relatively cleanly, though certain amounts of these products can still be expected to be produced. Finally, lighter fluid itself is made up of various volatile hydrocarbons, including, but not limited to, Light aliphatic hydrocarbons, such as Butane, pentane, hexane, etc., Benzene (hopefully not much, in the developed world), perhaps some toluene or phenol. Some of these can obviously a bit dangerous, especially any aromatic components. These are likely to volatize, both on their own, and during an incomplete combustion, and may have some negative health effects, especially in an enclosed area. None of this should be considered medial advice, consult your doctor, blah blah blah... Buddy431 (talk) 00:25, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I suspect that incomplete combustion would be the main problem with lighters, because of how they are used for such short periods of time. Combustion is normally incomplete when you first ignite or extinguish a flame, but, for most devices, like a stove burner, that's a very small percentage of the time. Not so with lighters. StuRat (talk) 00:36, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I would guess that it will be a cheap petrol fraction, thus unlikely to have an aromatics (benzene, toluene, etc), therefore the main toxic component is likely to be hexane, which does have problems when one is repeatedly exposed..  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 21:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Zippo and Ronson lighter fluids contain naptha. I'm unable to determine whether any other chemicals are present. Quoting from MICROMEDEX 2.0's HAZARDTEXT:

• • • Naphtha vapor is irritating to the eyes, skin, nose and upper respiratory tract. Inhalation results in headaches, inebriation, ightheadedness, giddiness, drowsiness, fatigue, nausea and central nervous system depression. Dizziness, convulsions and unconsciousness may develop, followed by coma, stentorious breathing and cyanosis.
    • No deaths from naphtha overexposure have been reported in humans. However, inhalation of vapors in the absence of oxygen is considered immediately life-threatening.
    • Inhalation or contact with material may irritate or burn skin and eyes.
    • Vapors may cause dizziness or suffocation.
    • Naphtha is a mild eye, nose and respiratory tract irritant, and can cause chapping of the skin (Bingham et al, 2001; Baxter et al, 2000; Lewis, 1998). Inhalation of airborne concentrations of up to 400 ppm for 7 hours produced eye, nose and throat irritation and rhinorrhea in human volunteers (Cohr, 1980). Symptoms of central nervous system depression, such as headache, giddiness and fatigue, were also noted, with painters seeming more sensitive than students.
    • Long-lasting neurophysiological changes were seen in rats exposed to naphtha (termed organic solvent dearomatized white spirit) at levels of 0, 400 and 800 ppm for 6 hours/day, 5 days/week for 6 months. Changes were seen in sensory evoked potentials, and motor activity was decreased when the animals were tested up to 6 months after the end of exposure (Lund et al, 1996).

There's more, but I only pulled the inhalation-related pieces. I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on the Internet, and I am not interpreting any of the above statements. --some jerk on the Internet (talk) 14:17, 31 March 2011 (UTC)