Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 February 12

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February 12

Are we plaqued by another scam ?

Advertisement for Easy Health Options by Dr. Michael Cutler.

Is this product about plaque removed from body truthful and legitimate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.127.29.173 (talk) 00:18, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I added a title. StuRat (talk) 00:56, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Is this what you mean ? [1]. If so, see chelation_therapy#Heart_disease. StuRat (talk) 01:01, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

copyright and intellectual property

Why is it that copyright does not cover the idea itself? Does it mean that if I have created a better mousetrap, I don't have to ask permission from the moustrap's inventor? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.52.145.100 (talk) 09:17, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

For your first question, have you read Idea–expression divide?

For your second question, you need to understand the difference between copyright and patent: the "idea" for a better mousetrap, if it is inventive and novel etc, can be protected by a patent. So could (at the time) the original inventor of the mousetrap. Copyright is not for inventions. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:35, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Historically intellectual property controls have been divided up into a few specific different forms, each of which have their own requirements and lengths of monopoly:

• Copyright is used for expressions, not ideas. Today is requires almost no effort to acquire one (other than the production of the expression itself) — they are mostly automatic. (Some small exceptions exist.) Their length of time was originally quite fixed but at the moment is very long to near infinite in some countries.
• Patents are used for ideas, not expressions. They are for inventions, methods, and any other idea that produces some kind of practical outcome, with "practical" being pretty broadly defined. They require some effort and some expense to acquire. Their length of time is very fixed — 14 years or so.
• Trademarks are used for brands, names, and anything that identifies a specific version of a product (Coca-Cola versus Pepsi, for example). They require not very much effort or expense to acquire, but more than a copyright. Their length of time is basically unlimited, so long as they are currently in use — as long as Coca-Cola exists you'll never be able to make a soda called Coca-Cola, unless it becomes totally "generic."

A blurry exception to all three is the design patent, which is a patent on an expression largely related to brand identity. I find these confusing, personally, but felt the exception was worth mentioning...

The goal of the first two of these is to guarantee incentive for creation of new intellectual property (through the giving of monopolies) and (ideally) to balance that against the negative aspects of total monopoly. (With copyright, that aspect has withered away to a considerable degree over time.) As for the "why" doesn't copyright cover ideas, the reason is that covering an idea is a HUGE amount of monopoly power. As such, idea control is more or less limited to technical inventions of some sort — and not, say, to generic book plots or story ideas. Even then there are many who claim it is too much power. Expression is a far more limited thing to control, even if it too is quite a lot of power. --Mr.98 (talk) 14:57, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

You missed one:

• Trade Secret - used for all sorts of thing - but often for things that you want to protect - but don't want to reveal. The exact formula for Coke Cola - for example. If you patent such a formula, you have to publish it for the world to read - even if they don't have the legal right to copy it. There are some special legal rights conferred on trade secrets.

SteveBaker (talk) 16:25, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Good point. It should be stated, I suppose, that trade secrets only apply the ideas — they are basically the flip side of patents. The choice between a trade secret and a letter patent has a lot to do with the composition of the "idea" in question. Obviously something that can be quickly reverse-engineered is not a good product for trying trade secret protection. My understanding of the "legal rights" you get from a trade secret is that other people still aren't allowed to explicitly steal them from you (they are still property), but that if they figure it out independently, you are sunk. But I may not be up to date on this. --Mr.98 (talk) 21:24, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Forceps in childbirth is interesting as the family who invented them kept forceps as a trade secret for 150 years. You wouldn't have thought it could be possible. Now there was a bad trade off for everybody else, how many babies could have been saved if that was a patent instead. Dmcq (talk) 14:07, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

financial management

xyz india limited share is expected to touch rs-450 one year from now. the company is expected to declare a dividend of rs-25 per share .what is the price at which an investor would be willing to buy if his or her required rate of return is 15 percentage? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.38.17.165 (talk) 10:30, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

This looks like homework. If you would like us to help you, please tell us how much you already understand, and what information you need to be able to answer the question. We will NOT be able to simply provide the answer, but we may be able to show you some information that can help you find it yourself. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 11:00, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

As currently stated, there isn't enough information to answer the question. When is the expected dividend expected to be paid? --Tango (talk) 12:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

And what is the current price ? StuRat (talk) 16:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

You don't need to know the current price. The question is what the maximum price the investor would be willing to pay is. You need to know the current price to know if they would buy or not, but the question doesn't ask that. --Tango (talk) 20:11, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I think the question imply dividend return for the year is rs-25. If that's the case I'll give you a hint: The return is 450 minus the price you pay plus dividend. Personally I don't think this is a homework question but whatever. Royor (talk) 03:18, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

How do you know whether the rs-25, even if it is for the year, is in present value or future value? Whether or not you discount by 15% makes a significant difference. Plus, if this was reailty, to make a reliable prediction surely you'd need to know certain things about the sample from which the rs-450 estimate comes from - most people are assymetrically risk averse, so it matters whether the consensus estimate is based on say lots of low estimates and one outlier high estimate. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:55, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Because the way the question is worded I interpret it as a "unreal and simplified" question - sort of like the use of "frictionless pulley" in a physic question. Given the fact the question ignore transaction cost and future stock price prediction being horribly unreliable (plus tons of other stuff), I see it as "0.15x = blah blah blah, solve for x" type of question. Yes your points are valid: IF this is a real-life situation you would NOT use the answer base on this to make stock purchase. Royor (talk) 02:10, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Storm surge

In February 2013 nor'easter, it talks about deep snow falling and strong winds. It also says "Boston experienced a storm surge of 4.2 ft (1.3 m), its fourth-highest." What is a "storm surge"? Is this related to "weather" or to sea conditions or ... ? -- SGBailey (talk) 11:44, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Does Storm surge help? - Cucumber Mike (talk) 11:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes. I've edited the article to link it. Thanks. -- SGBailey (talk) 12:37, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I like the lead picture there with the breaker coming towards the house. Scary! A wave out to sea would normally be smaller and they build up as they come on shore. Dmcq (talk) 14:15, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Note that the effects of a storm surge can be worsened by high waves, and either worsened or lessened by high tide or low tide. Precipitation also combines with these to cause flooding. StuRat (talk) 15:54, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Yep. An important thing to remember when discussing these events is whether you're talking "storm surge" -- that is, the actual water level measured against the predicted non-storm water level -- or "storm tide", the actual water level measured against mean higher high water (or some other high-water benchmark). See, for instance, this post at Weather Underground, where Dr. Masters notes that the two large storm surges to hit Boston in the past 6 months (Sandy and Nemo, each over 4 feet) weren't historically remarkable from a flooding standpoint because they both happened at low water. On the other hand, Sandy's effects were so severe in the New Jersey / NYC area because there the storm surge coincided with high water, resulting in a high storm tide. — Lomn 16:52, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

What stops me shadowing Warren Buffett's trading?

With some ups and downs, Warren Buffett has been a hugely successful stock picker for decades. He closed his partnership to new entrants long back, but does that matter given secret stock purchases don't exist (right?). What is stopping me just ordering a broker to make trades mimicing every move he makes, albeit investing less than he does (presumably)? And if nothing is stopping me, then why don't lots of people do this? 46.30.55.66 (talk) 15:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, one one level, you've got to remember that Berkshire Hathaway deliberately tries to keep its own investments private (by using complex subsidiary purchases) until it has bought (or sold) as much of the stock as it wants to. I suspects that this confounds mimicry for a decent period of time. The other thing to remember is that these days, a considerable amount of BH's investment comes in the form of buyouts, which are very difficult to mimic for obvious reasons. But I'd like to know more myself. - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 15:43, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Your trades would necessarily be after his. Note that after a large purchase is made, the price is likely to go up a bit, and after a large sale, to go down a bit. This is a result of supply and demand. So, your results wouldn't be as good as his. He also likely has reduced fees per share, since he is trading on large volumes. So, while it might still be possible to make a profit, it might well be less than Warren. Of course, if many people did as you suggest, that would lead to a speculation bubble after he invested in something, and a crash after he sold it. This is one reason why he keeps such trades secret. At a certain level of disruption, the Securities and Exchange Commission would get involved, and perhaps stop him from trading, due to the market instability it causes (I'm not sure if they have the power to do so unilaterally or would require an act of Congress). StuRat (talk) 16:00, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

This is, as it happens, one of the plot elements of J. K. Galbraith's novel A Tenured Professor - someone becomes famous for successful stock trading (he has a rather cynical enthusiasm-based model) and, to forestall criticism, declares that he will publicise all of his future dealings. The inevitable result is that when he announces he has bought shares in X, so do a horde of others; the price is driven up, and his foresight is proven ;-). Andrew Gray (talk) 20:19, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

That kind of scenario may represent an unfair market manipulation and thus be against the rules. --Jayron32 20:29, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

You can, or at least could, do this with the owners of The Motley Fool. They had a couple accounts where they would announce what they were going to buy and sell. Many many people followed them blindly and have done quite well. Dismas|^(talk) 20:32, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Side point, say you work for a finace firm that trades well like Warren Buffet, and you have direct information of the trades. Is there anything stopping you mirroring the trades of the firm in your own portfolio? If so, again why don't more people do this? 80.254.147.164 (talk) 11:07, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

I wonder if that qualifies as insider trading. In this case, it's not inside info on the company, but rather on large upcoming trades. StuRat (talk) 15:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it's called front running (John M. Baker refers to it below) and it's illegal. - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 22:55, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't that apply to sharing information about the company to external sources? If you happened to own some shares which you saw the company selling huge amounts of, would you really be expected to not use this information to do the same and pretend as if you didn't know? 80.254.147.164 (talk) 15:43, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Financial firms generally consider their trading information to be proprietary. Trading on it is a fireable offense. John M Baker (talk) 22:37, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Public attention to its trading activities is a serious concern for Berkshire Hathaway (Buffett's company), particularly when it is accumulating or reducing a large exposure and worried about front-running. As an institutional investment manager, Berkshire Hathaway must make quarterly reports of its equity holdings on Form 13F. You can see its most recent 13F here, and if you want to follow Berkshire Hathaway's SEC filings generally they are here. The SEC in 2003 rejected a request to keep a Berkshire Hathaway acquisition program confidential.

So the short answer is yes, you can attempt to duplicate Buffett's investment strategy, at least to the extent that he is investing in freely tradable public equities. Of course, Form 13F is already 45 days out of date when it is filed, and the market will have moved in that time, so duplicating his strategy won't let you duplicate his investment results. As a small investor with things to do other than watch for 13F filings, you won't even do as well as other people trying to duplicate Buffett's strategy, since they will have purchased before you. John M Baker (talk) 22:53, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

korean war air plane spotters inside the usa

korean war air plane spotters inside the usa do you have any info for this ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.44.57.203 (talk) 20:30, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

The Ground Observer Corps operated during the Korean War, due to fears of a possible Soviet attack. Apparently around a half-million volunteers participated during the '50s until improvements in radar finally rendered the practice obsolete. — Lomn 21:35, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

UK masters programme start dates/starting Master before completion of Bachelor

Hi guys,

I have a problem. I am currently completing my Bachelor in Psychology at the Open University. I will probably have my last exam on October the 14th (it will probably take an additional two months before I get back the results). I wanted to start a Masters course in clinical psychology at a physical UK university straight afterwards but have now found out that these usually start in September. I have thought about using the time to get in some work experience but I would really like to get cracking as soon as possible. Is there any way I could get into the course despite not actually having fully completed my degree? I'm finding the whole situation really frustrating and would appreciate any hints or tips :)217.88.222.170 (talk) 22:41, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

The answer is find the school you intend to attend, call them directly, and ask them what you are asking here. Someone at that school will know what their admissions policies are. --Jayron32 23:23, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

When I did my Master's (at Bradford) I didn't actually meet the entrance requirements, as I got a III in my first degree. So they accepted me onto the Diploma course, with the expectation that I would transfer to the Master's during the year. But I've no idea how widespread this practice is, so I echo Jayron's reply. --ColinFine (talk) 00:40, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Get your skates on! Go to the websites, find the contact details, email or phone round, because there are application deadlines coming up. The universities will be happy to provide the information you need. There are open days that you should think of attending, because you can meet staff who may be able to make exceptions like the one Colin had. Talk to your OU tutor about it. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:00, 13 February 2013 (UTC)