Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

→

Archive 10

Article structure on all international basketball tournament articles.

Currently there are three styles used in how the tournaments are presented in articles. One is having separate sections for each round of classification games (and essentially, all placing/consolation games, including the final). Another is placing all of the classification games under one section. The last is placing consolation matches in the sections for each round in the "main" knockout phase. I'd say either the second or third type of presentation is neater and reduced "visual noise" by reducing the number of sections and shortening the length of the TOC.

For a visualization on how they look like, the first presentation can be found at 2010 FIBA World Championship page, the second is at this version of the 2009 FIBA Asia Championship page, and the third presentation is the one used elsewhere, such as Eurobasket 2009.

The TOC appears like this for each presentation (only the sections pertaining to the tournament per se are included):

First	Second	Third
Preliminary round Group A Group B, etc. Knockout phase Quarterfinals 5th-8th classification Semifinals 7th place game 5th place game 3rd place game Final	Preliminary round Group A Group B, etc. Knockout phase Quarterfinals (includes qualification games) Semifinals (includes qualification games) Finals (includes qualification games)	Preliminary round Group A Group B, etc. Knockout phase Quarterfinals Classification round Semifinals Third place game Finals

WP:CANVASS: User:MrArticleOne, User:Bds69 and User:Mohsen1248 have been notified of this discussion. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 17:05, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

I tend to agree with HTD that the 2nd and 3rd presentations are slightly better and less cluttered visually (although I think the ultimate problem here is that they bother with extensive classification games in the first place). As between the 2nd and 3rd, I would like to see the arguments raised before making my own endorsement. MrArticleOne (talk) 02:51, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm just dumbfounded on why some people find the 1st one a "better format." –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:02, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

The future of Template:Current sport-related on sports team articles

A discussion has been recently initiated regarding the future persistent use of {{Current sport-related}}, and other similar templates on sports team articles. Please join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Current event templates#Premature deprecation of the template for sports team articles. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (talk) 07:47, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Wheelchair basketball

Does this project include wheelchair basketball? Roger (talk) 14:03, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I think I can now safely assume the answer is "No". Yet another manifestation of the discrimination faced by people with disabilities in all spheres of life, even here on WP. Roger (talk) 16:03, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Well no one ever goes here anyway. But I support but don't expect help from the people here... because they don't exist. :( –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:16, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Why assume that silence means "no"? The talk page simply isn't very active. Is there anything specific you would like help with? Zagalejo^^^ 03:16, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

On a related note, can someone do something to promote this Wikiproject? I've tried using the Community Portal but nothing happened. It'll be nice to create a MOS for basketball articles, standardizing the infoboxes, etc. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 11:51, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mark Osowski

The article Mark Osowski has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

A search for references found a couple published (gBooks) very minor mentions of the subject. Fails WP:N and WP:V

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 15:37, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Your opinions and advice

A recently discussion Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Women's Sport. Your opinions and your advice are welcome. --Geneviève (talk) 17:52, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Disqualification

There is no article about disqualification (basketball). Should one be created, or should we just redirect to personal foul (basketball)? Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 02:46, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

How much do you think we could say about it? Zagalejo^^^ 21:14, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Probably nothing that isn't in personal foul...although the two things ARE different concepts Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 23:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I wonder if there are enough sources to go about, as most sources will tell occurrences of disqualifications not disqualifications per se... perhaps changes in the rules should be good enough. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 02:33, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

I would just propose a pre-emptive merge of "disqualification (basketball)" into its own subsection in "personal foul (basketball)", if anything. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:18, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Opinions on 2009 McDonald's All-American Girls Game and notability?

Hi, I came here from the new page patrol, the article 2009 McDonald's All-American Girls Game. I don't see any specific guidelines from your project for notability, so I thought I'd come here for advice. Is there a general consensus on high-school-level games? Is this a notable event? Also if you do think this is notable, where could I find non-self-published sources that might attest to this? HominidMachinae (talk) 00:31, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Template:Infobox FIBA tourney

there should be add "Games played", 15 games for 4 groups, 60 games and 16 games in nock out stage, total 76 games. Relevant because more games more tickets sold and more money for tv transmitions, also FIFA WC is and show "Matches played 64" --Feroang (talk) 03:59, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Career Stats Site?

Does anyone know if there is a basketball equivalent of HockeyDB? What I mean is a site that shows all players career stats beyond the NBA/ABA including North American minor league etc. I am wanting to update the roster of the Saskatoon Slam but have no idea where to find a) their entire roster and b) their last known team. Shootmaster 44 (talk) 19:24, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Something like that is going to be difficult to find online. I've never come across anything like that, unfortunately. I think your best bet would be to piece things together from old newspaper articles. Zagalejo^^^ 21:41, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Does USBasket.com/Eurobasket.com et al have historical teams? I know they have what I am looking for current players if I pay for it. I just wonder if they get into historical stuff? If they do and it isn't prohibitively expensive, I may consider doing that. Shootmaster 44 (talk) 21:45, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

If a guy was still playing during the 1990s, they usually will have some sort of profile for him, but I don't know how complete their information will be, or if it's organized in a useful manner. Unfortunately, I don't subscribe to the site, so I can't say much for sure. Zagalejo^^^ 22:07, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I found that at least some of the players it was useful. Took a bit of searching and playing around with the site, but I was able to compile last known teams for the majority of the players. Whether or not I have the complete roster is another story, but I did pull all those players out of game programs I had from the team. Shootmaster 44 (talk) 22:32, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Some leagues publish an annual. Those are offline sources, though, and may not include stats for every player (usually only the top ones only). –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 04:20, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

The Australian NBL and Liga ACB in Spain both publish their media guides on line on their websites and both have a player register listing all players in their history. Liga ACB even has pdfs of each year's media guide back to the league's creation - which is really useful. The NBL has stats for each season of each team, but the gap comes with defunct teams - which are not captured. Rikster2 (talk) 21:43, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Two national teams

Is it possible for a player to represent more than one national team? I recently read Emir Preldžič and the article stated that he has represent Slovenia in the past and now he has Turkish citizenship and is eligible to play for Turkey. His eligibility was cited with a Turkish news article and a Turkish blog. Anyway, FIBA rules stated that:

A player who has played in a main official competition of FIBA (see article 2-1) after having reached his seventeenth (17) birthday may not play for a national team of another country.[1]

I believe that he is ineligible to play for Turkey, but I'm not really sure. Are there any other player who has represented more than one national team? Thoughts? — MT (talk) 03:12, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Ben Gordon played for the US in the 2003 Pan-American Games, when he was 20 years old, but is apparently eligible to play for the British national team. (I suppose it's possible that the powers that be aren't even aware that Gordon played in the Pan-Am Games, since no one really cares about them.) Zagalejo^^^ 04:12, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Well probably Pan-Am is not an official competition of FIBA. Anyway FIBA also states that:

However, in exceptional circumstances the Secretary General may authorise such a player to play for the national team of his country of origin if he is ineligible to play for such country according to this article 3-23 and if this is in the interest of the development of basketball in this country. An administrative fee as stipulated in article 3-305 and decided by the Secretary General is payable to FIBA.

Adding that Gordon is actually born in London, maybe he was given the exception. Anyway, back to Preldžič, I still don't think he is eligible for Turkey. He has Turkish citizenship just because he played in Turkey since 2007. — MT (talk) 05:36, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

2011 ESAKE A1 Ethniki MVP?

Has the 2011 MVP been named for {{ESAKE A1 Ethniki MVPs}} yet? I can't find anything that says so. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:43, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Basketball team naming convention

Since Galatasaray Café Crown and Beşiktaş Cola Turka recently ended their relationship deal with Café Crown and Cola Turka, an editor has moved them into Galatasaray Men's Basketball Team and Beşiktaş Men's Basketball Team respectively, before I moved them into their current name to correct the capitalization according to MOS:CAPS. However I just found out that similar multi-sports teams which main article are used for their football (soccer) team, i.e. F.C. Porto and S.L. Benfica, used a different naming convention for their basketball team: F.C. Porto (basketball) and S.L. Benfica (basketball). My question is: are there any sort of naming convention established before? I believe those article should be renamed Galatasaray S.K. (basketball) and Beşiktaş J.K. (basketball). Any opinions? — MT (talk) 06:42, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I would've preferred "Original football team name (basketball team)". Spanish clubs also have sponsored names but they're located at their football (if applicable)/original names.

A related concept is if you include the city name in standing/box score tables if their original name doesn't include it. Is "Panathinaikos" good enough for you or is "Panathinaikos Athens" more preferable? –HTD 07:04, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Let me summarize some of the names here:

• Real Madrid C.F. — Real Madrid Baloncesto (baloncesto is basketball in spanish)
• FC Barcelona — FC Barcelona Bàsquet (basquet is basketball in spanish)
• S.L. Benfica — S.L. Benfica (basketball)
• F.C. Porto — F.C. Porto (basketball)
• Galatasaray S.K. — Galatasaray men's basketball team (used to be named Galatasaray Café Crown but the sponsorship deal was ended)
• Beşiktaş J.K. — Beşiktaş men's basketball team (used to be named Beşiktaş Cola Turka but the sponsorship deal was ended)
• Fenerbahçe S.K. — Fenerbahçe Ülker (the basketball team is sponsored by Ülker)
• FC Bayern Munich — FC Bayern Munich (basketball)
• Bayer 04 Leverkusen — Bayer Giants Leverkusen
• Aris Thessaloniki — Aris B.C.
• Panathinaikos AO — Panathinaikos BC
• Maccabi Tel Aviv — Maccabi Tel Aviv B.C.
• Dynamo Sports Club — BC Dynamo Moscow
• CSKA Moscow — PBC CSKA Moscow
• CSKA Sofia (sports club) — PBC CSKA Sofia
• CSA Steaua Bucureşti — CSA Steaua Bucureşti (Basketball)
• SD Crvena Zvezda — KK Crvena zvezda

There are no consistency in the article name when the basketball team has exactly the same name with the football team or the main sports team. I personally prefer Team A (basketball) form to disambiguate them. — MT (talk) 08:43, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Let's follow the Spanish examples -- if the basketball name is different from the football name, let's use that. If they're the same, dab it with "(basketball team)" as it's already bad enough we have such article titles as "Basketball player (basketball)" instead of "Basketball player (basketball player)". We should've only used "(basketball)" for concepts related to the game such personal foul (basketball), Power forward (basketball), etc -- if there's a musician named LeBron James it would've been named "LeBron James (musician)" and not "LeBron James (music)". But I won't rant if people do use "Basketball team (basketball)", but it just looks off. –HTD 10:30, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I think dab using "(basketball team)" is not good given that it is inconsistent to the use of "(basketball)" on players. I see Howard's point, but I think "(basketball)" was used because it is simpler than "(basketball player)". Simplicity is as important imo. As for naming, yes we should just follow the Spanish examples.—Chris!_c/t 19:52, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

NSPORT Basketball player notability by leagues

Hi, I made a post at Nsport relating to the list of basketball leagues and the wording. If you have any comments please post there. Thanks. Eldumpo (talk) 03:56, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Turkish sporting scandal

The article 2011 Turkish sports corruption scandal now contains information that is relevant to this project. Apparently some impropriety is alleged of a couple of Turkish basketball teams. Hack (talk) 06:29, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

NBA portal up for deletion

Since you haven't been notified as far as I can tell, I thought you should know of this discussion: Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:National Basketball Association. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 04:51, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Australian Wheelchair Basketball Players

About 40 to 50 stub articles were added to Category:Paralympic wheelchair basketball players of Australia. It would be really great if people could help improve these articles, possibly get two or three long enough to get up to Did you know length so they could appear on the main page. :) Most of the articles are about players, men and women, from the 1996, 2000, 2004 and 2008 squads. this link and this linkmay have some sources that could help improve these articles to get them up to DYK length. :) Beyond that, help in fixing the talk pages to also include the importance of the articles to Wikiproject Basketball, possibly changing the template on the page from general sport person to basketball player would also be great. Many players, especially those at Athens and Beijing, currently play professionally or semi-professionally. Adding their club information to the article would be awesome. :) ~~----

New discussion of navboxes and succession boxes at the Village pump

Please see Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Using navboxes where succession boxes would suffice. Jweiss11 (talk) 14:58, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

I've notified WP:NBA about this. — MT (talk) 15:50, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Infoboxes; Height and Weight

FYI -- readers of this page may be interested in the discussion and poll here as to whether a baseball player's height and weight should be reflected in his wp infobox.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:58, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Greek/Italian league records

Are there any good, one-stop sources for statistical records in the Greek and Italian leagues? Thanks. (By records, I mean stuff like, "Most points in a game", etc.) Zagalejo^^^ 22:33, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

I hold in my hands a 2011 Italian League annual that I got just today - 600+ pages of info and really excellent (but all in Italian). I bought it off Italian eBay and I am really happy with my purchase. It's really well done - about $30 and they do ship to the US. I don't believe their stats are on-line anywhere - or at least I haven't found them yet. No idea about the Greek league but I think the language is too hard for me to navigate. Rikster2 (talk) 21:01, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

BTW, the annual does verify the Landesberger rebound record (34 is the Lega Serie A record - set 11-11-1990). Rikster2 (talk) 22:25, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into that! I did find some confirmation about the Italian league record; it's the Greek league record that still eludes me. Zagalejo^^^ 00:43, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, most leagues publish an annual. You'd have to ask the league though, as most of them are not available on the net. –HTD 11:37, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Unification of basketball infoboxes

Players

It's time to have one infobox for basketball players. There are several in use: Template:Infobox NBA biography, Template:Infobox basketball player and Template:Infobox PBA Player. I'll look for identical parameters on all three so it can be moved to Template:Infobox basketball player. Also, I'll be notifying the people at WT:NBA if it means that their infobox has to go. There is also a separate Template:Infobox NCAA Athlete and Template:Infobox college coach. These are used by WP:College basketball and WP:College football so if those have to be changed there has to be coordination on those two, too.

P.S.: I realized unifying these infoboxes are easy. What we need to do is to add parameters if a player goes on to become a coach or an executive. I don't think a separate infobox would suffice as virtually all coaches were players. We'd just have to emulate the association football infobox. –HTD 14:06, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

The NCAA athlete infobox is its own entity entirely and should not be discussed in this proposition. It allows for variables such as the sport played and school colors to distinguish the athlete from other teams, plus NCAA athletes are amateurs by status and would not fall under a catch-all "basketball player" infobox. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:27, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah... I read somewhere that the NCAA infobox was a collaboration between the college basketball and college football projects, so it's probably wrong to screw those up. Once the players turn pro they'd use any of the basketball infoboxes anyway. –HTD 17:00, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

It is fine for the NCAA athlete infobox to exist separately. But I would like to have the basketball player infobox replacing the NCAA athlete infobox once a player reaches pro level.—Chris!_c/t 19:41, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, which is what should happen in an ideal (Wikipedia) world anyway. Jrcla2 (talk) 22:55, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

So even a college coach like Bryce Drew, a former NBA player, would be in the same box, right? Actually, I see no reason why this wouldnt already work with todays Template:Infobox NBA biography—Bagumba (talk) 23:01, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree that college coach who are former pro basketball player should use the new unified infobox. Currently there are some weird situation where some former NBA players/coaches became college coaches, they often have two infobox, Template:Infobox college coach and Template:Infobox NBA biography (example Isiah Thomas). I think this is really redundant. — MT (talk) 03:54, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I guess we really have to collaborate on WP:College basketball and even WP:College football on this one, since they created those templates. Apparently before, athletes played different sports so the NCAA athlete/coach infoboxes were created as a catch-all infobox that can be used when a person played different sports. –HTD 10:57, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

• Ok, the new infobox is at Template:Infobox basketball biography. Articles using Template:Infobox basketball player and Template:Infobox PBA Player should use the new one.—Chris!_c/t 00:36, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Template:Infobox basketball biography needs to be modified to allow PBA Draft included in the infobox. That's the only thing I found at the moment. Are there any other features from Template:Infobox basketball player and Template:Infobox PBA Player that need to be added to the unified infobox? — MT (talk) 03:50, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Add PBA draft. Please test it.—Chris!_c/t 06:05, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I haven't checked, but if the parameters to the new infobox and to the PBA infobox are identical, I guess it'll be safe if the PBA infobox is redirected to the new one. The PBA infobox doesn't link to the draft in question, so it must be easier -- if it's linked all articles that use the PBA infobox has to be changed; although it should be denoted in the first place. –HTD 10:51, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I guess nothing more. Also, I dunno if other basketball leagues have a draft so we should probably make it optional to denote what draft it is. But that means all basketball league drafts should be located at "<year> <league> Draft" (like 2011 NBA Draft, 2011 PBA Draft. etc.). Now we need to add coaches' parameters. What are those? Teams coached, wins, losses, PCT? What else? Are we going to add executives' parameters too? What are possible executive parameters? Also, since there are parameters for the Naismith Hall of Fame, there can also be parameters for a FIBA Hall of Fame, and probably other leagues/organizations that have hall of fames.–HTD 04:18, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

FIBA Hall of Fame is a good idea, but I don't think we need coaches stats in the infobox. IMO, it's too much information for the infobox. — MT (talk) 04:55, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

FIBA HOF for players added. I implemented on Bill Russell and it works perfectly.—Chris!_c/t 06:21, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes that'll be prone to edits by anons. So we'd only add teams coached? –HTD 05:03, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

One thing that might be worth noting is that Template:Infobox basketball player requires that a player's current team be listed in the infobox with brackets around it (eg, [[Detroit Pistons]]), while Template:Infobox basketball biography doesn't (you can just type Detroit Pistons into the field, and you'll automatically create the link). Zagalejo^^^ 04:43, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Is there something that can be done so that it'll work whether there are brackets or not? –HTD 05:03, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Death date and place of death need to be a standard parameter for all of these (maybe not the active box provided we are good at switching it should a player die during their career). I have been creating a number of articles for recently deceased retired players and it is a PITA every time. Also, this is a wish list item and may make the infobox too large, but perhaps adding the country or league for each team entry. It is confusing for players who have moved across leagues a lot - people are either adding the country in parentheses, or the league acronym. Last point, I would question the statvalue fields - for NBA players it's pretty straightforward (how many points, rebounds, etc in NBA play) for players who switch leagues a lot (especially those who played at least some time in the NBA as well), these get tough to complete. For Bob McAdoo is it just his NBA totals or his Italian League totals as well - and much of the non-NBA info can be hard to track down. Just a few thoughts Rikster2 (talk) 07:22, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh, one more thing - is this a chance for consensus on how to display team/club history when a person plays is 2 or more leagues during the same season (either NBA/NBDL or two countries)? Not sure I love the current NBA/NBDL depiction (see Hasheem Thabeet for example) and it becomes more of an issue with global leagues as players move quite frequently due to contracts, transfers, etc. Rikster2 (talk) 07:25, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I think the NBA stats can stay, it's just it has to be stated as "NBA STATS". As for teams being denoted by their countries, the football infobox doesn't do this (I think it's frowned upon). So I guess it should only be team names. –HTD 10:51, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

The format you see for Thabeet is when an NBA player is assigned to the D-League, but remained on the NBA team roster. It was based on the format football uses for players on loan, e.g. see Alexander Hleb. As a background, there was an initial discussion and then a final discussion to reach consensus.—Bagumba (talk) 07:54, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

The format (→Team (League/country)) should only be used when the player is loaned out, such as this player who is loaned out to another team but is still under contract with his parent team. In the NBA, the D-League assignments is similar to these European loan deals, where the player is still under contract with his NBA team, but plays for the D-League team. — MT (talk) 09:39, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, the thing the football infobox uses for loans can be used in D-League assignments. –HTD 10:51, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I think the NBA/NBDL thing is fine as it appears to create consistency between basketball and association football. I guess we need to be more careful that when players are loaned out in basketball (which does occur in European leagues) that it is shown the same way. But I take it we are adding date and place of death? That really needs to happen. Rikster2 (talk) 17:20, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Death date and place parameters already exist. But that wasn't show in the doc page. I will fix that later.—Chris!_c/t 18:20, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

That would be great Chris. DOD and POD are pretty important and should show in the example template. Otherwise we make it difficult for less experienced editors (or even more experienced editors who aren't as technically inclined - ala me) to create and edit these kind of articles. Rikster2 (talk) 22:04, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Is it just me, or there is something wrong with the new unified infobox. Several players, such as Trey Johnson and Curtis Stinson, have a broken infobox where only several information are listed. — MT (talk) 05:11, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I have the same issue, and it seems similar to the earlier problem with Oscar Robertson that was already fixed. I tired reverting all the recent changes after the move, but it seems the problem must have existed beforehand. The crazy thing is if you edit the page (my preferences have preview enabled) then the infobox shows fine, but in "read" mode it is not. Problem seems to exist for infobox without images ... except Oscar Robertson which works. I dont claim to be an expert on this, so I'll leave it for someone else to hack around.—Bagumba (talk) 08:34, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

It's been fixed.—Chris!_c/t 22:06, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I still see this problem cropping up (eg, at Terry Driscoll, which is missing the information that usually comes at the top of an infobox). I have no idea what could be causing it. Zagalejo^^^ 05:44, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

So I copied the infobox text from Terry Driscoll to a sandbox and it worked OK. Then I tried {{subst:Infobox NBA biography ...} in Terry Driscoll to see if it expanded correctly and that worked OK. The I reverted the changes and the page starts working. I'm at a loss to explain. I dont even understand the previous "fix" for Trey Johnson and Curtis Stinson before. From what I can tell, it shouldnt have made a difference.—Bagumba (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I figured it out. You need to purge the page, which I though meant clearing the cache on my browser. It's not ... its actually WPs servers that need to be purged. That is why before if I edited the page everything looked fine. Not sure how to force purge this for all pages that use the template.—Bagumba (talk) 11:24, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, purging the page is different from clearing the cache on browser. Anyway, when you see a problem, try purging the page first to see if that fixes it. If it doesn't, then it indicates a problem is with the template.—Chris!_c/t 19:31, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

OK, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks. Zagalejo^^^ 00:29, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Purging seems to work whenever I see this problem. However, I have no idea how widespread the problem is. It just seems to occur at random articles; there's no pattern that I see. Zagalejo^^^ 03:01, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

NBA defaults

There is a parameter "league" that Template:Infobox NBA biography defaulted to "NBA" before. When it's NBA, a link to the player profile at NBA.com was added to the infobox. Can we assume all non-NBA players explicitly fill in the league param to ensure backwards compability?—Bagumba (talk) 00:36, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

The league field is something that has bothered me for a while. I wish it were completely optional, and not bundled with an NBA.com link generator. It's mainly a problem for retired players. If a retired guy played in ten different countries over his career, what are you supposed to put into the league field? Even when dealing with active players, the league field is in a weird part of the infobox (far away from the name of the player's current team), and may lead to confusion. Zagalejo^^^ 05:04, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

For retired players, league field should be left empty to avoid the problem. This field is for active players.—Chris!_c/t 19:31, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

The problem is the field is overloaded. It displays the league, and it was used to link to the NBA profile in the infobox. If the field was missing, it was assumed to be an NBA player.—Bagumba (talk) 02:35, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Teams

Another one is an infobox for teams. Although this is not as easy as the players' one, it's not that hard. But we'd have to finish the players' one first. –HTD 04:19, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

International career research

I have started articles for Martell Bailey and David Bailey (basketball). I am hoping you can help me fill in their professional careers. I have seen both names mentioned at eurobasket.com and David's name is in the following articles: Halifax Rainmen, Tartu Ülikool/Rock and Buffalo Sharks. I also recently created Kit Mueller who played a little while in Switzerland.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:58, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

David Bailey has also played in the D-League: [2]. (Not international, but relevant.) Eurobasket.com is the most comprehensive site for the kind of info you want; unfortunately, most of the content is behind paywalls. Zagalejo^^^ 02:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

High school template categories

I do not understand this edit removing Category:Basketball trophies and awards and Category:High school basketball in the United States from {{USA Today National Basketball Player of the Year}}. Also, why don't templates like {{Gatorade National Basketball Player of the Year}} have these categories.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:27, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

That's a fair question. Don't know either, and can't tell from the edit summary. I would suggest pinging the editor.--Epeefleche (talk) 01:39, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Circball

Sinces the stated Focus of this Project is "this WikiProject will focus on basketball outside the United States," could the sport of Circball be appropriate for inclusion in this WikiProject? Please comment on the proposal for deletion page whether the Circball article should be a stand-alone article or be re-direct here or at another Wiki article. Time is of the essence, please comment now. Thanks.Circball (talk) 18:13, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Dutch Lonborg

Dutch Lonborg and A. C. Lonborg: two pages for one person. Please, consider to merge the two pages. Thank you, --Delfort (talk) 10:05, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Dutch was a college basketball coach during the 1930s while A.C. was a college football coach during the 1920s. –HTD 11:50, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I think they are the same. Dutch Lonborg HoF bio mentions that he coached McPherson College, Washburn University, and Northwestern University. What are the chance that McPherson employed two different coach with the name Arthur C. "Dutch" Lonborg and A. C. "Dutch" Lonborg — MT (talk) 12:54, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

It's the same guy. It was not unusual for the same person to coach multiple sports at a college then. Rikster2 (talk) 12:56, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Oops I didn't see the football and basketball. However this newspaper article from 1922 mentions that McPherson's football coach Dutch Lonborg used to play both basketball and football for Kansas. — MT (talk) 12:59, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Then somebody has to fix those up. –HTD 13:08, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Done, contents merged, A. C. Lonborg became a redirect to Dutch Lonborg. — MT (talk) 13:22, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, he is the same person. Thank you for merging. --Delfort (talk) 12:26, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Foshan Dralions or Foshan Longlions

Does anyone familiar with Chinese basketball know which one is correct? The article is located at Foshan Dralions since the team moved and changed its name from Shaanxi Kylins in 2010. However the lead and the team logo both use the name Foshan Longlions. — MT (talk) 21:56, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Jabari Parker medal record

I am not sure what is proper. I moved the medal record box in the Jabari Parker article. Any opinions on where it belongs?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:12, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

"Note" parameter in Template:Basketballbox

First, the series parameter was abused, now to circumvent this, Mohsen1248 added a note parameter. God knows how this would be abused further. –HTD 11:05, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

"league" field in infobox

Resolved

 – NBA.com link was decoupled from "league" param. No consensus on how to use "league" field for retired players.

In {{Infobox basketball biography}}, if "league" is not set, it defaults to NBA, and a link to NBA.com is generated. Should we change to not default to NBA? I ran across an issue with Malcolm Thomas (basketball, born 1988). He was waived by the Lakers and has never played in the NBA, so an NBA.com link should not be generated. However, it doesnt make sense to fill in "league" (as a workaround to bypass the NBA default) if he is not currently playing in any league. In a previous discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Basketball#NBA_defaults, the only participants were NBA project people here, and I can't imagine anyone outside here objecting to removing NBA default. Chris previously suggested "This field is for active players." The impact to NBA bios will be that NBA.com will be removed from all players those that did not set "league" to NBA, both active and retired players. It will need to be added back manually by setting "league" or through "nba" parameter (the code was already there for "nba" field but is not documented).—Bagumba (talk) 23:13, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Is there a way where it'll be hidden when something like a switch (like league=n, i dunno how it is properly called or a second parameter like {{{league|{{{leaguelink}}}) is used? All notable basketball players must've played in a league at some point. –HTD 02:08, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

I think the first issue to resolve is what "league" should display once a player retires or it a free agent? All their past leagues, or none? Answering that, the appropriate solution will be clearer. I'm OK with not having league once a player retires.—Bagumba (talk) 02:22, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Apparently the parameter is for the current league. That means if he's retired should that mean it's empty? Or is the league parameter solely for the purpose of creating the NBA.com link? –HTD 02:24, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

The league param I will guess existed before the NBA.com link. Instead of introducing a new param to generate the NBA.com link, the decision was probably made to piggyback on top of an existing param with the needed info already.—Bagumba (talk) 04:12, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

As I said before, I think we should omit the "league" field for retired players and free agents. For some players, the list of past leagues will stretch to five, six, seven+ entries, which will look awful in an infobox. Zagalejo^^^ 05:35, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

This can be resolved with creating a separate parameter for the external link that only works if the league is set as "NBA". –HTD 06:46, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

High School Basketball

After working on Jabari Parker (which is likely to become the first high school basketball WP:GA to my knowledge) and Mitch McGary, I was wondering if there should be a WikiProject for either high school sports or specifically for high school basketball. There are a lot of athletes at this level who pass WP:GNG.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:59, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think there should be a separate WikiProject. Despite Wikipedia's popularity, it's incredibly tough to get a WikiProject going and to get enough members involved who will actively participate. The NBA and college basketball WPs are alive and thriving, but even this WikiProject (Basketball in general) doesn't really have many active editors, so there shouldn't be a split into an even more subdivided WP. High school basketball, IMO, should remain part of WP:Basketball in general. Jrcla2 (talk) 17:31, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

What about a high school sports project.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:27, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think there's enough interest from others to create and maintain that. WikiProject Basketball seems fairly small in membership as is, so high school basketball should just be here instead of breaking off into an even smaller project. Agent Vodello^{OK, Let's Party, Darling!} 20:17, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Wheelchair basketball and Australian Wikimedians to the Paralympic Games

If you're a fan of the wheelchair basketball and in Australia, HOPAU/W2G|Wikimedians to the Games is an opportunity to improve wheelchair basketball articles, cover wheelchair basketball and potentially attend the Paralympic Games in person. :) It would be great to see the wheelchair basketball articles improved even more. There should be a few articles that are easy to take to GA with out that much work, as at least 10 of them have been Did You Knows and are assessed between C and B. (You could probably get the paid trip to London based on wheelchair basketball players alone.) --LauraHale (talk) 08:08, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

A teamwork together

Why not? Each of us has the skills and we can quite together contribute. We propose the writing together of the page Major women's sport leagues in North America. In more this collective realization can allow us of know and to settle together a solidarity with Wikipedia:WikiProject Women's sport, Thanks --Cordialement féministe ♀ Cordially feminist Geneviève (talk) 14:08, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

High school boy's basketball All-American

Currently, wikipedia seems to recognize 4 types of high school basketball All-Americans: Jordan Brand Classic, McDonald's All-American Game, Parade All-American (Category:Parade High School All-Americans (boys' basketball)), USA Today All-USA high school basketball team. I was thinking about creating an article for ESPN Rise high school basketball All-Americans starting with the first team selections from the following teams:

1. 2009: http://espn.go.com/high-school/boys-basketball/story/_/id/4069747/bradley-takes-home-national-player-year-all-america-honors/
2. 2010: http://rise.espn.go.com/boys-basketball/articles/2010/04/22-ER-All-American-1st-team.aspx
3. 2011: http://rise.espn.go.com/boys-basketball/articles/2011/04/21-ER-All-American-1st-team.aspx?pursuit=BoysBasketball

Do people think that this constitutes a major honor worthy of an article?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:22, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

personally I think that only McDonald's and Parade are really worthy of articles. There has been a recent proliferation of HS basketball templates that I don't think are worthy as well. Just my two cents, but I think there ought to be a pretty high bar for inclusion of HS sports content. Rikster2 (talk) 12:39, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Read a few articles at ESPN HS. It seems to me that Jordan Brand Classic is nearly spoken in the same breath with McDonald's.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:58, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Eh, high schoolers can take part in two All-Star games after their senior year and I am not aware of anyone who has ever turned down a McDonald's game invite - it's clearly top dog. Jordan Brand is probably #2, but some top players opt to attend different events. I guess the question is if #2 is a big enough deal. I will freely admit that I err on the side of not including much in HS basketball. There are simply too many non-notable players, but it feels like folks are trying to push down that bar more and more every day. Rikster2 (talk)

I don't know about turning down invites. I am just going by what I have been reading. I don't consider myself pushing down the bar. When people have encyclopedic content in USA Today, Dime Magazine, ESPN HS, etc., it is just a matter of synthesizing sources. Obviously some great high schoolers will never make the pros due to injuries or legal issues, but if the content is there why not synthesize it.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:45, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Here is an example of what I am talking about: Template:Mr. Basketball USA. To me, this just reads like a bunch of ESPN.com editors got together and went back and named all-time HS players of the year for an article. I don't at all think the historical sigificance is there in this case and was surprised when this template started appearing on articles. It's no different from The Sporting News picking the top 100 college basketball programs of all time, which they did several years back. I don't think the article or the template is encyclopedia-worthy. In the case of Jordan Brand - the article is probably noteworthy enough, but why is there a template for the MVP? Seems like a fairly minor honor to be MVP of what is one of many HS all-star games. Again, this is just my perspective. Yours is clearly different or you wouldn't be creating all these articles/templates. Rikster2 (talk) 19:32, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

If ESPN Rise can have proper references attributed to it to show that it's a top-class high school award like the others then I don't see why it can't be included, but Wikipedia needs to be very careful about including website-specific awards for high school athletes. I couldn't even begin to imagine how many could potentially pop up if we start allowing them to pass through. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:37, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

By proper reference, I assume you mean something other than ESPN The Magazine, TrueHoop and other ESPN-related properties.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:58, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah pretty much. Anything at all ESPN-related would essentially be pimping its own award, but you're pretty good at finding sources so I have little doubt that you'll be able to prove this award is worthy. I just don't want to see an ESPN award article with 80% of the references from ESPN Internet Venture company articles, ya know? Jrcla2 (talk) 15:34, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't know what I can find outside of itself. Most of my high school basketball WP:RS are either ESPN HS or USA Today. I haven't noticed them referring to each other's awards. I will check Dime Magazine and SLAM Magazine and the general web to see what is out there.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:55, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

But that's the problem and therein lies why GNG exists: If you can't find any sources outside of itself, then it's not a notable enough (this/that/other) to be on Wikipedia. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:54, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm OK as long as multiple independent sources satisfy WP:GNG.—Bagumba (talk) 19:11, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I just figured out that this was formerly the EA Sports All-American team:

1. 2008: http://ssbasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=1132&CID=796016
2. 2007: http://ssbasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=1132&CID=664465
3. 2006: http://ssbasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=1132&CID=537673
4. 2005: http://ssbasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=1132&CID=356222

--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:30, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I found a history of High School AA team articles at http://ssbasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=1132&CID=356222. It included a few of the EA Sport Precursor AA teams by Student Sports and clarified that the history goes back to 1989. These are all paywalled, however.

1. 2004: http://ssbasketball.rivals.com/barrier_noentry.asp?ReturnTo=&sid=&script=content.asp&cid=353535
2. 2003: http://ssbasketball.rivals.com/barrier_noentry.asp?ReturnTo=&sid=&script=content.asp&cid=535420
3. 2002: http://ssbasketball.rivals.com/barrier_noentry.asp?ReturnTo=&sid=&script=content.asp&cid=535459

Just to clarify - the Rivals.com article on the AA history is referring to the EA Sports All-Americans, which later evolved into what we presently call the ESPN Rise All-Americans? Jrcla2 (talk) 14:39, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes Student Sports All-American (1989-2004), EA Sports All-American (2005-2008), ESPN Rise All-American (2009-2011), and my guess is that it will be ESPN HS All-American in 2012 going forward.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:10, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

It looks like I have some work to do on the name changes. I just noticed, it does not actually expressly state the changes.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:38, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I support the article creation, since apparently it's been a mainstay as a top tier high school basketball award (albeit through different name changes over time). I would ask that a section in the article be exclusively dedicated to the naming history so that we know what it was called and when (doesn't have to be a long section). As someone who is familiar with high school basketball awards, even I did not know that, so how would a casual reader? Jrcla2 (talk) 16:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

High School basketball underclass POY templates

I just stumbled upon this source for underclass POYs. Since American footballl has the following templates: Template:ESPNRISE Sophomore, Template:ESPNRISE Junior, Template:Rivals Junior of the Year (which may need some updating if the awards continue to exist), I am going to create templates and I may stub out articles, but I have not noticed much press outside of ESPN regarding the subject. For those of you interested in discussing the notability of underclass POYs, I submit Jabari Parker. Based on my knowledge of Chicago high school basketball, creating underclass POY templates will help distinguish legenday high school legends who become bustouts or for some other reason do not rise to high notability later. E.g. Ronnie Fields and Ben Wilson. I will start creating these templates later today unless there is objection. I am not awaiting approval, but given some questions on high school basketball template notability I wanted the issue to be out there.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:12, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

• Object. Thanks for pointing out those class-specific templates for football. When I get the chance I'm going to TfD them. Class-specific awards, specifically for high schoolers, is not needed. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:21, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
  • I don't understand your objection. Underclass POYs are the types of people who have extensive WP:RS as noted above with my current example. In basketball, they are far more likely to be All-Star pros than in football, which already has the templates. Notify me of any TFD. Also note the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_American_football#American_high_school_football_underclass_POY_templates regarding the football templates. Football may have been discontinued since they don't seem to go on to be All-Stars that often.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
    • I never said anything about RS Tony, please point out where I did. My argument is that high school awards need to be very carefully selected as to which ones should have navboxes. Class-specific players of the year shouldn't because it's just template clutter at that point (going back to my original point, WP:NENAN). Jrcla2 (talk) 14:37, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
      • For editors, the templates would point to the highest priority high school basketball players. For example, I would like to read an article about the new Tony Parker who is a current senior in high school as opposed to Tony Parker and Anthony Parker. Awards like this can help editor figure out which players are the most notable and in need of editorial effort.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:55, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
        • You are most likely the only person on all of Wikipedia who cares about the high school Tony Parker, but that's beside the point. Editors who "need help" figuring out what articles to create or expand should do the preferred method which has been done on this website since day one - leave a comment at the respective WikiProject's talk page. It's not difficult and it's prone to better results because numerous editors can chime in and say what needs to be worked on. Creating a navbox for selfish editorial purposes is a terrible reason for creation. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:16, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
          • One more side point: You started your response with "For editors" - this is an online encyclopedia for readers. We, the editors, just happen to be the ones greasing the wheels behind the scenes. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:18, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
• Comment - "Based on my knowledge of Chicago high school basketball, creating underclass POY templates will help distinguish legenday high school legends who become bustouts or for some other reason do not rise to high notability later." That is not the point of an encyclopedia, nor is it in any way useful. Creating class-specific navboxes would not "help distinguish" anything, especially not those who turned out to be busts. While a navbox is a neutral concept, your rationale is not. In the prose of Ronnie Field or Ben Wilson's articles is where the topic of being a "bust" can be written, and only if there are RS that say such. I am even more convinced now that these navbox proposals are unnecessary banner-hanging. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:16, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose - those awards can't even see notable from where they are. Just ESPN and Rivals creating content from thin air. Rikster2 (talk) 15:43, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
  • What do you mean creating content from thin air. What do you think the Touchdown Club of Columbus does? We recognize every one of them. I can almost guarantee, I can find more content for a high school basketball underclass POY than a Jim Parker Trophy winner.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:41, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose There is less interest in finding other winners of a HS class award than a college award winner. I think the clutter in very accomplished athletes' articles should be avoided, especially when there is no consensus on when a navbox should not be added to an article. For lesser basketball players, I think the navbox will only serve a small minority of readers interested in players not in the HS players' district and likely in a different state altogether.—Bagumba (talk) 17:27, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
  • I don't find the logic that a Ronnie Fields type player would only interest Chicagoans very good. Look at his navbox. It seems to me that his international relevance is as diverse as more notable player.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:07, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
    • The problem is that Ronnie Fields may be ok to have a navbox on his article because there are currently none, but what about when you get to Lebron James and Kobe Bryant? The last thing they need is a navbox saying they were the best high school (freshman/sophomore/junior/senior) in the country. That type of information is exactly what should be included in prose, not in template clutter. Nobody is going to go to Lebron's article to see if he was the national junior of the year or whatever the heck that award is; they're going to go there because of his professional and Team USA careers. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:12, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
      • Nobody is saying the award shouldn't be mentioned at all - but why is a navbox necessary? Just put a note in the section about the guy's HS career and be done with it. Rikster2 (talk) 18:34, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
        • A mention in the article makes it hard to find other people who won the award. A template can link related articles. However, an article would fail WP:N because I can not find non ESPN sources.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:05, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
          • Making other awardees easier to find isn't a concern here. Even guideline #4 on WP:NAVBOX says, "There should be a Wikipedia article on the subject of the template." That in itself almost certainly disqualifies this navbox from existing. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:19, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
            • If the article would fail notability, then the navbox would too. Rikster2 (talk) 20:09, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
              • I have never seen a TFD resolved by WP:GNG.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:41, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
                • There's a first for everything. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:55, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
    • Navbox should help readers get to articles they might be interested in. I dont see how many readers interested in basketball in, say, Lebannon, would be assumed to have interest in other American high school award winners. Have a link to the award, reader can go to that link and get more links without the clutter of navbox. IMO a navbox is not worth the real estate in this case.—Bagumba (talk) 18:44, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Male basketball players

Category:Male basketball players, which is under the purview of this WikiProject, has been nominated for merging. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 07:02, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Delray Brooks

I am going to need some help filling in the infobox for Delray Brooks.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 08:22, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's History Month

Hi everyone. March is Women's History Month and I'm hoping a few folks here at WP:Basketball will have interest in putting on events (on and off wiki) related to women's roles in basketball. We've created an event page on English Wikipedia (please translate!) and I hope you'll find the inspiration to participate. These events can take place off wiki, like edit-a-thons, or on wiki, such as themes and translations. Please visit the page here: WikiWomen's History Month. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to seeing events take place! SarahStierch (talk) 21:13, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

There are 51 redlinked articles in the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame entry. That might be a good weekend blitz if others are interested. Rikster2 (talk) 13:13, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Great idea Rikster2! If you do decide to focus on a specific weekend, please let me know or you can add it to Wikipedia:WikiWomen's_History_Month#Upcoming_online_events. Great idea! SarahStierch (talk) 02:36, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Wikimedians to the Games: Basketball events

If you're participating or considering in participating in Wikimedians to the Games, you may be interested in attending the events below. They may provide an opportunity to get information to write a Wikinews article or to take pictures for points on Commons. If you're not participating, it would still be great to see people attending these events to take pictures for use on Wikipedia and Wikinews. If you do decide to attend, consider hosting a Wikimedia meetup at the end or the evening of the event, or even just letting HOPAU organisers know you are planning to attend. If you leave a message on my talk page, I can help you promote the meetup. :) If you need help with organising attendance because of transport cost issues or accessibility in terms of wanting press access, again please get in touch. :) --LauraHale (talk) 07:12, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Wheelchair basketball in New South Wales

• Sat 10/Mar Wollongong Roller Hawks vs Victoria Dandenong Rangers Shellharbour City Stadium [3]
• Sat 24/Mar Wollongong Roller Hawks vs Adelaide Thunder Shellharbour City Stadium [4]
• Sun 11/Mar Wollongong Roller Hawks vs Victoria Dandenong Rangers Shellharbour City Stadium [5]
• Sun 25/Mar Wollongong Roller Hawks vs Adelaide Thunder Shellharbour City Stadium [6]
• Sat 12/May Sydney Uni WheelKings vs Adelaide Thunder Sydney University Sports and Aquatic Centre [7]
• Sat 24/Mar Sydney Uni WheelKings vs The Be Active Perth Wheelcats Sydney University Sports and Aquatic Centre [8]
• Sun 13/May Sydney Uni WheelKings vs Adelaide Thunder Sydney University Sports and Aquatic Centre [9]
• Sun 25/Mar Sydney Uni WheelKings vs The Be Active Perth Wheelcats Sydney University Sports and Aquatic Centre [10]
• Sat 28/Apr Wollongong Roller Hawks vs Sydney Uni WheelKings T.B.A. [11]

Wheelchair basketball in Queensland

• Sat 10/Mar RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets vs Sydney Uni WheelKings State Sports Centre, Brisbane Entertainment Centre [12]
• Sat 12/May RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets vs Wollongong Roller Hawks State Sports Centre, Brisbane Entertainment Centre [13]
• Sat 12/May RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets vs Wollongong Roller Hawks State Sports Centre, Brisbane Entertainment Centre [14]
• Sat 28/Apr RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets vs The Be Active Perth Wheelcats State Sports Centre, Brisbane Entertainment Centre [15]
• Sun 11/Mar RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets vs Sydney Uni WheelKings State Sports Centre, Brisbane Entertainment Centre [16]
• Sun 13/May RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets vs Wollongong Roller Hawks State Sports Centre, Brisbane Entertainment Centre [17]

Wheelchair basketball in South Australia

• Tuesday 21 February 2012 07:00pm - 09:00pm Northern Wheelchair Basketball League [18]
• Sunday 19 February 2012 08:00am - 05:00pm South Australian Junior Wheelchair Basketball Development Program [19]
• Sat 10/Mar Adelaide Thunder vs The Be Active Perth Wheelcats Marion Leisure and Fitness Centre [20]
• Sun 11/Mar Adelaide Thunder vs The Be Active Perth Wheelcats St Clair Recreation Centre [21]
• Sat 26/May Adelaide Thunder vs RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets Wayville Sports Centre [22]
• Sat 28/Apr Adelaide Thunder vs Victoria Dandenong Rangers Wayville Sports Centre [23]
• Sun 27/May Adelaide Thunder vs RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets Wayville Sports Centre [24]
• Sunday 25 March 2012 11:30am - 12:30pm South Australia Junior Wheelchair Basketball Development Program [25]
• Sunday 06 May 2012 11:30am - 12:30pm South Australia Junior Wheelchair Basketball Development Program [26]

Wheelchair basketball in Victoria

• Saturday 19 May 2012 - Sunday 20 May 2012 08:00am - 05:00pm Gippsland Wheelchair Basketball Tournament [27]
• Fri 24/Feb RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets vs Adelaide Thunder Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Fri 24/Feb Victoria Dandenong Rangers vs Wollongong Roller Hawks Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Fri 24/Feb The Be Active Perth Wheelcats vs Sydney Uni WheelKings Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Sat 21/Apr Victoria Dandenong Rangers vs Adelaide Thunder Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Sat 24/Mar Victoria Dandenong Rangers vs RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Sat 25/Feb Victoria Dandenong Rangers vs The Be Active Perth Wheelcats Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Sat 25/Feb Wollongong Roller Hawks vs Adelaide Thunder Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Sat 25/Feb Sydney Uni WheelKings vs RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Sun 22/Apr Victoria Dandenong Rangers vs Adelaide Thunder Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Sun 25/Mar Victoria Dandenong Rangers vs RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Sun 26/Feb Wollongong Roller Hawks vs The Be Active Perth Wheelcats Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Sun 26/Feb RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets vs Victoria Dandenong Rangers Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Sun 26/Feb Adelaide Thunder vs Sydney Uni WheelKings Dandenong Basketball Stadium
• Sun 3/Jun Victoria Dandenong Rangers vs Sydney Uni WheelKings Dandenong Basketball Stadium (Map)

Wheelchair basketball in Western Australia

• Tuesday 28 February 2012 Summer Cup Basketball B Grade Location : Herb Graham Recreation Centre
• Sat 12/May The Be Active Perth Wheelcats vs Victoria Dandenong Rangers Herb Graham Recreation Centre [28]
• Sat 21/Apr The Be Active Perth Wheelcats vs RSL Queensland Spinning Bullets Herb Graham Recreation Centre [29]
• Sat 26/May The Be Active Perth Wheelcats vs Wollongong Roller Hawks Herb Graham Recreation Centre [30]
• Sun 13/May The Be Active Perth Wheelcats vs Victoria Dandenong Rangers Herb Graham Recreation Centre [31]
• Sun 27/May The Be Active Perth Wheelcats vs Wollongong Roller Hawks Herb Graham Recreation Centre [32]
• Tuesday 17 April 2012 - Saturday 21 April 2012 08:00am - 05:00pm Wheelchair Basketball Kevin Coombs Cup Location : WA Basketball Stadium, Perth, WA, AUS [33]

basketball player and basketball biography

you might find Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2012_February_29#Template:Infobox_basketball_player interesting, and wish to comment. Frietjes (talk) 21:25, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Categories for discussion

You might find this discussion interesting, and wish to comment. --Edgars2007 (Talk/Contributions) 21:43, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Discussion for {{Infobox basketball biography}}

FYI

There is a discussion regarding the use of the birth_place parameter in {{Infobox basketball biography}} that you are invited to participate at Template_talk:Infobox_basketball_biography#Format_of_birth_place.—Bagumba (talk) 17:02, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

New request

Hello, I'm pretty sure that this is not the proper place to make this request regarding this template works but I haven't gotten responses elsewhere so here's the issue:

• {{bk|SVK}} should link to the Slovakia national basketball team, however when I put it in an article, it comes out like this Slovakia, instead showing Slovakia as Slovak Republic. Essentially the issue is that the template is linking to the redirect. Can anyone fix this problem? Thanks in advance,

--Spartan008 (talk) 14:34, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

FIBA calls teams from Slovakia as the "Slovak Republic." With that said, all national basketball teams representing SVK should be moved to "Slovak Republic <gender> <age> national basketball team". –HTD 14:46, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I guess someone can get on moving all of those articles from "Slovakia" to "Slovak Republic".

--Spartan008 (talk) 21:24, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's History Month follow-up

Hi everyone! I just wanted to follow up with your project and see if any article creations or improvements took place in regards to Wikipedia:WikiWomen's History Month! If so, it'd be great if you could please post your article outcomes on the..you guessed it...WWHM outcome page! Thanks everyone for all your efforts! Sarah (talk) 20:53, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Standings templates

Would a standings template would be accepted by everybody? This will replace the hardcoded mockups and will standardize them. An example:

Team	Pld	W	L	PF	PA	PD	Pts	(Qualification)	(Ties)

Another version would be:

Team	Pld	W	L	PCT	GB	(Ties)

*Note: (Optional)

–HTD 00:57, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Standardize Won/Loss Colors

Please see Template_talk:Table_cell_templates#Standardize_Won.2FLoss_Colors. --ben_b (talk) 21:03, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Request for Help: Wikipedia talk:In the news/Recurring items

Morning everyone

Over at Wikipedia talk:In the news/Recurring items we have a problem with regards to "Euroleague Basketball", and we would like project:basketball editors to help over there if anyone can.

Euroleague Basketball is included in a list called "In the news/recurring items". This list contains events which the project considers fairly obvious contenders for inclusion on the Wikipedia front page in the "In The News" section. However, a recent nomination attempt has hit a stumbling block because of concerns that Euroleague Basketball isn't particularly important enough to be given the 'free pass' that ITN/R allows. In short - can anyone in this project help explain if Euroleague is or is not considered notable in the sport as a whole?

Many thanks

doktorb _words^deeds 08:56, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't want to comment on how the discussion is going; however, I'd like to comment on the state of the article, specifically on the number of prose. If no one's updating the prose, it deserves to be axed on the ITN/R list. Since 2011 EuroBasket Final on how an article should look like before it gets to be posted.

3-point

You might find this discussion interesting. --Edgars2007 ^{(talk/contribs)} 21:00, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Basketball Arena

I notice there's no article on basketball arenas... seems like an important subject (the building specialized for basketball play) is missing. (Basketball Arena is about the London Olympics) 70.49.127.65 (talk) 03:43, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Most of the buildings used for basketball are used for a variety of other purposes. For example, a typical NBA arena might also be used for hockey games, concerts, circus performances, etc. We do have the article basketball court. Zagalejo^^^ 04:32, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Though many schools have basketball facilities that are primarily, or dedicated for basketball. And as for concerts, you have those in soccer stadiums etc, (also circuses, motocross, etc), so secondary use is not preventing a basketball building from being primarily basketball. A building primarily designed for basketball would seem, to me anyways, to be a topic that is important to this project's subjectmatter. 70.49.127.65 (talk) 22:06, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

If you think it's possible to write an article on basketball arenas, then feel free to give it a shot. Zagalejo^^^ 22:14, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Template:FIBA Under-19 World Championship MVP

I have created Template:FIBA Under-19 World Championship MVP, but I am unable to find info for the first four tournaments (1979, 1983, 1987, and 1991). Help would be appreciated.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:53, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Kathleen MacLeod and Kathleen Macleod

...two voices for the same person. Please consider to merge both pages. I don't know which is the correct spelling (MacLeod or Macleod). Thank you, --Delfort (talk) 10:12, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Redirected Maclead to MacLeod, as that is the spelling of the Basketball Australia and the other one has BLP problems. --LauraHale (talk) 10:36, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Template:bk and Slovakia basketball team still broken

Whenever you type "SVK" or "Slovakia" with the basketball template (or the bk-right template), it shows up as "Slovak Republic", when it should show up as "Slovakia". Examples of this are FIBA EuroBasket 2005 Division B and FIBA EuroBasket 2013 qualification. Anybody know how to fix this? pbp 20:13, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

FIBA calls them "Slovak Republic". –HTD 18:50, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Dream Team

Please join the discussion at Talk:1992_United_States_men's_Olympic_basketball_team#Reqested_move to rename "1992 United States men's Olympic basketball team" to "Dream Team (basketball)".—Bagumba (talk) 17:48, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

United States links

In the last 48 hours, an anonymous IP user (122.107.175.113) has added an unnecessary "United States" link to American basketball players' birthplaces, as well as pipe-linking the American nationality in the infobox to "United States," in several hundred player bios. Adding "United States" to player birthplaces is unnecessary, as has been discussed on this talk page before, and pipe-linking "American" to "United States" is contrary to WP:OVERLINK. Can someone make some effort to stop this? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:23, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

2018 FIBA Basketball World Cup re-schurule to 2019

The event 2018 FIBA Basketball World Cup was time moved to 2019 FIBA Basketball World Cup but the original article is still there and maybe we must delete it.--Feroang (talk) 04:02, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Redirect? –HTD 18:49, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, and done.—Bagumba (talk) 19:10, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Why is this an article at all? Everything I have read is that the date change has not been finalized. MrArticleOne (talk) 19:09, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Group standing table headers

Currently, there are a lot of styles used to denote the team standings (table) for leagues that use the FIBA rules. There should be a standardized table header that we should use for all articles.

The 2012 men's Olympics used the following:

Team	Pld	W	L	PF	PA	PD	GA	Pts

Others use

Team	Pld	W	L	PF	PA	PD	Pts

While still others use

Team	Pld	W	L	PF	PA	GA	Pts

Still others have equal widths on every column (30px) save for the first one.

Team	Pld	W	L	PF	PA	Pts

We should settle on this, plus minor kinks such as widths and the like. FIBA themselves omit either the PD, and they've never used GA in tables. I say we should still retain the PD and ditch GA, and settle on the following widths:

Team	Pld	W	L	PF	PA	PD	Pts

–HTD 12:30, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Just my two cents, I would say: (1) there is no need for a Pld column in this context. If we're talking a whole league season, where they play north of 50 games and teams could be 3 or 4 games apart in terms of number played, it's useful. In international tournaments, where everybody plays only a handful of games and they usually have played the same number at all times, it is just wasted space. (2) I think PF, PA and PD should be kept. These are actual, useful secondary indicators of team performance. (3) GA should not be presented unless it is resorted to as a tiebreaker. GA is a completely useless, pointless statistic. It suggests that winning 60-40 is better than winning 71-50, even though this is patently ridiculous -- if the goal is to win the game, then that means you are closer to winning the game (and achieving the objective) by increasing the margin of your lead, not the ratio of your lead. We can't change the fact that FIBA uses it as a tiebreaker, but it should only be shown when it is resorted to. MrArticleOne (talk) 18:59, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

But "Pld" is presented on almost all non-American sports season (not just basketball) articles. In the US, "GP" is sometimes included but never in the final standing for a season. It can still be a handy stat.

As for GA, I think FIBA was trying to hit two birds with one stone, so that they won't needed PF as a tiebreaker (it is usually the next tiebreaker after GD in soccer leagues). GA=PD anyway when there are at most 3 teams involved; this changes if there are 4 teams or more. I'd agree not to include it in tables except for tiebreakers. –HTD 03:46, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Another reason I can think of was to ensure that a loss by forfeit (20-0) impacts a team more than a loss via default (2-0 if the defaulting team is leading at the time of the default; otherwise the final score would be the one right before the default). –HTD 02:30, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Club/League categories and relegation

There has been a fair amount of discussion on editor talk pages and in edit summaries about the relationship between club categories (eg - Category:Aris B.C. players) and league categories (eg - Category:Greek Basket League players). Some editors (myself included) have been nesting the categories, but other editors have rightly pointed out that a player for a given club may not actually have played in the top league in countries where relegation is common practice. In light of this, it makes sense NOT to nest these categories. That said, I have some anxiety about having league categories where there is a high liklihood they will be misapplied by many editors. Many European leagues don't have on-line references in English and some - like the Greek League - are in languages that are very difficult to decipher for English speakers. I can fake my way through a reference in Spanish or French or Italian, but when the alphabet changes I (and most active basketball editors) can't read them, so proper categorization is left to a relatively small number of editors - which I think breeds a lot of errors (such as the ones that led to this discussion). Any thoughts on how to treat relegation leagues? One thought is not to have league categories - or to link a reference like a league database on the category page. One issue is that many leagues don't even state that they relegate on their main article. Rikster2 (talk) 12:41, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Scope of WikiProject Basketball

On the front page of this project, the phrase "With the establishment of the WikiProject NBA and College Basketball, this WikiProject will focus on basketball outside the United States." I'd like to propose that this be amended to a statement that doesn't exclude basketball in the US not covered by these projects (examples including minor leagues like the CBA, AAU basketball and high school). I am happy to wordsmith this, but wanted some agreement first since it would be a statement of focus change. Thoughts? Rikster2 (talk) 00:55, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, with no responses I just changed the wording to "With the establishment of the WikiProject NBA and College Basketball, this WikiProject will focus on basketball outside these subject areas." Please post here to discuss if this isn't acceptable. Rikster2 (talk) 22:07, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Does WP:NBA include WNBA and NBADL?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:45, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

I believe so. Rikster2 (talk) 00:56, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

The unified basketball infobox and the NBL (Australia)

I know that basketball infoboxes were unified awhile back (the discussion is on this page above), but it seems like Template:Infobox NBL player is still in heavy use. Should these templates also convert? I'd be happy to do some of the work, but I don't want to stir up a hornets' nest if these are different for a reason. Any reason these shouldn't be migrated to Template:Infobox basketball biography? Rikster2 (talk) 18:07, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

AfC that needs your review!

Hi everyone! There is an article for creation submission that could use some "professional" review - it's about a basketball player. Would someone from here mind taking a look and accepting/declining or commenting on it? Thanks :) You can find it here: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/LaQuan "Degame" Stallworth -- SarahStierch (talk) 05:33, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Hmm. I took a look. Her college career is probably the most notable part of her career. Louisiana Tech is one of the top 5-10 women's programs in the United States and she was a starter on two Final Four teams. The ironic thing is that if she were male, those accomplishments would have been enough to get her the press needed to meet GNG. However, women's college basketball (sadly) doesn't get the same level of coverage. I'd sy he is very borderline. My personal opinion is that she is barely notable, but that is my bias. She also seems to be an active player agent. Whatever is decided, I would not title the article with the nickname as a part of the title. In my opinion that never works and her nickname isn't that well known. My two cents. Rikster2 (talk) 22:39, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

"league" field in infobox, revisited

Malcolm Thomas

Maccabi Tel Aviv
Forward
Personal information
Born	(1988-11-08) November 8, 1988 Columbia, Missouri
Nationality	American
High school	Crawford High School (San Diego, California)
Listed height	6 ft 9 in (2.06 m)
Listed weight	225 lb (102 kg)
Career information
College	San Diego State (2009–2011) San Diego City College (2008–2009) Pepperdine University (2007–2008)
NBA Draft	2011 / Undrafted
Pro career	2011–present
League	Israeli League Euroleague
Career history
2011	Mobis Phoebus (South Korea)
2011–2012	Los Angeles D-Fenders (D-League)
2012	San Antonio Spurs
2012	→Austin Toros (D-League)
2012	Los Angeles D-Fenders
2012	Rio Grande Valley Vipers (D-League)
2012	Los Angeles D-Fenders
2012–present	Maccabi Tel Aviv (Israel)

The current use of the "league" parameter in {{Infobox basketball biography}}, documented as "The name of the league the player played in", is inconsistent with it's display in the infobox. For example, consider Malcolm Thomas (basketball, born 1988). He is an an active player, and "league" is populated with the leagues of his current team. However, "League" is displayed in the "Career information" section, but this is not a list of all the leagues in his career. In an earlier discussion, there was one suggestion that retired players should not use the "league" field as the number of leagues could be numerous.

Some options would be to:

1. Make no changes at all
2. Move player's current league out of "career" section.
3. Expand "league" to include all the player's leagues in their career
4. Remove "league", and establish new format for displaying leagues in "Career history", which mostly only lists a teams country if non-US (non-NBA teams in the US list the league's name)

—Bagumba (talk) 15:50, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Note: Notification was left at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association and Template talk:Infobox basketball biography.—Bagumba (talk) 15:56, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I like option 2. I think the league field would like better if it were closer to the current team field. Option 3 would look pretty awkward. Option 4 isn't a bad idea, in theory, but it would end up being a lot of work. Zagalejo^^^ 01:02, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree option #2 is the best option. Of the four, option #3 is not really an option in my opinion. Some guys have literally played in 15 leagues in their careers and that would look ridiculous in the infobox. If we continue to use the league field for retired players we need some standards around what league to use. Is it always "NBA" if someone played even a few games in the league? Is it where the most total games were played? One option might be to use the league if a person literally only played in one league and "Various" if it was a variety of leagues. I'd be ok dropping it altogther for inactive players, though. My 2 cents. Rikster2 (talk) 12:26, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Did I break my own record

After getting Jabari Parker promoted to WP:GA 1 month and 8 days before his 17th Birthday last February, today, I got Jahlil Okafor promoted to GA 2 months and 3 days before his 17th birthday. I don't know if either is a record for this project, but it must be close.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:53, 12 October 2012 (UTC)