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Request for Comment related to the naming of China-related articles

Please participate in the Request for Comment at Talk:China#Primary topic of China. If you wish to add to the discussion or simply respond to the basic question, do so on that that page not here.

Is the People's Republic of China the primary topic of "China"?

- Metal.lunchbox (talk) 17:57, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Requested move of Template:Counties of China

Please give your input here. —Xiaoyu: 聊天 (T) 和 贡献 (C) 16:58, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

China province templates: redundancy and naming

Redundancy

I would like to remove the topics section of all the province templates. Example: Template:Anhui. The section contains such links as History, Politics, Economy, Music, and Cuisine, all of which are now covered in the new Template:Anhui topics.

If there are no objections, I will go ahead.

How is this superficial redundancy that detrimental? One template gives much greater detail to the non-administrative area than the other. —Xiaoyu: 聊天 (T) 和 贡献 (C) 04:09, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Not detrimental, but perhaps unnecessary. An argument for keeping the topics line would be that some village articles may never receive the topics template, and so that line may be useful. An argument against would be that many high-importance articles contain both templates with this glaring redundancy.

Is there a sensible way to link templates, or some other solution? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:08, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

All right then. Just needed your assurances.

County-level templates would be clearly more appropriate to village articles, which the project should not be set to creating en masse yet as that would distract from the filling in of the gaping hole that is the set of town articles. —Xiaoyu: 聊天 (T) 和 贡献 (C) 16:42, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Okay then. I'll get started removing the topics line from the existing County-level templates (now named XXX Province). You have my "assurances" that I'll do only what I said.

You wrote: "...County-level templates would be clearly more appropriate to village articles..." I'm sure you are aware, of course, that the existing County-level templates (now named XXX Province), are present in almost every single China-related article at Wikipedia, whether a place article or cuisine article, or other.

I have no intention of adding the existing County-level templates (now named XXX Province) to any further village or town articles. In fact, I don't think I've ever added the County-level templates to any articles.

Finally, I have no intention of creating, en masse, village articles, or any other article. I'm not quite sure why you brought that up, as it has nothing to do with the discussion. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:41, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

No, you misunderstood what I was writing about "county-level templates". Few county-level templates, which ideally cover all the township-level divisions, even exist yet. That's all. —Xiaoyu: 聊天 (T) 和 贡献 (C) 23:50, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry if I keep misunderstanding you. Just to be clear, I am about to remove the topics section of all the province templates. Example: Template:Anhui. The section contains such links as History, Politics, Economy, Music, and Cuisine, all of which are now covered in the new (example:) Template:Anhui topics. I will go ahead with this, unless you say otherwise. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:21, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Template naming

I would like to rename the titles (not the names, so no page move necessary) of XXX Province to XXX Province administrative divisions, because after the removal of the topics section, it will only contain administrative division content. Plus, it confuses visitors to have two navboxes, one named XXX topics, and one named XXX Province. The title should reflect the contents.

If there are no objections, I will go ahead. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:26, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Not necessarily opposing now...And so should the template name reflect the contents. Also, including "county-level divisions" in the title would be better than "administrative divisions", since that is all a province-wide template can cover anyway. —Xiaoyu: 聊天 (T) 和 贡献 (C) 04:09, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

You know better than I on this matter. If you think county-level divisions is best, that's fine with me. Also, the group name (on the left side) inside the template can then be removed also, right? Shall I proceed? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:08, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

You didn't comment on this. I will get started on this too, unless you object. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:44, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I am about to rename the titles (not the names, so no page move necessary) of XXX Province to XXX Province county-level divisions. I will go ahead with this, unless you say otherwise. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:21, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Sample

Changes made:

• Topics section removed
• Title Anhui Province --> Anhui Province county-level divisions
• Capital --> capital (in second bar)
• | --> :
• Left bar removed
• Enlarge bullets

Does this meet with your approval? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:17, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Another style

This is another. I prefer this because it is more conventional layout, plus it has the alternating darker lines for easier reading.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:24, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Okay. Nobody seems to care much, so I'm going to boldly start to "do stuff". Probably I will start with changing the titles from (example): Anhui Province --> Anhui Province county-level divisions. Then, Capital --> capital (in second bar), then remove topics group, then, who knows, maybe make the whole thing bright red, or scramble all the words. We'll see. Speak now, or forever hold your mouse. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Changes made

• Topics section removed  Done
• Title (example): Anhui Province --> Anhui Province county-level divisions  Done
• Capital --> capital (in second bar)  Done
• Left bar removed  Done
• | --> :  Done
• Remove small code from capital city in second bar
• Enlarge bullets
• Make everything bright red
• Scramble all the words
• AfD the lot

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:41, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Sample of typical navbox in its present state: Template:Anhui Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Erm what is the meaning of "Make everything bright red"?

As long as you do not remove the colour coding for the different types of prefectures, I will not complain about the changes. —Xiaoyu: 聊天 (T) 和 贡献 (C) 16:57, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I was kidding.

Actually, I think I'm done.

There are three issues you could help with:

• Template:Hainan doesn't look like all the others.
• Category:China county division templates seems wrong for many reasons.
• Template:Taiwan Province, People's Republic of China only links to Taiwan Province, People's Republic of China, and is in a strange category.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:31, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Chinese names in English

About http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chinese_name&diff=444296379&oldid=443893830

A user removed the paragraph on Chinese names in English here, saying that the statement that Chinese people "rarely" reverse the orders of their names unless the Chinese people travel or live abroad is not correct. He did not provide specific secondary sources that make claims countering those made in the secondary source I cited.

Please see a discussion at User_talk:Rjanag#Chinese_name WhisperToMe (talk) 19:37, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

About the claim regarding Zhang Ziyi (see Rjanag talk page):

I prefer using Google News and Google Books to gauge usage in reliable sources. So:

Google News: While Zhang Ziyi gets 6,920, Ziyi Zhang gets 2,950 - But remember she traveled abroad (possibly lived abroad too)

Google Books: "Zhang Ziyi": 3,040, "Ziyi Zhang": 742 - Again

As for someone who pretty much stayed in China (Mao Zedong):

Google News: "Mao Zedong": 35,700, "Zedong Mao" doesn't get any results in that form - instead it gets "Zedong. Mao" - 176

Google Books: "Mao Zedong": 213,000 - "Zedong Mao" does not work in Google Books - it pulls up results for "Mao Zedong"

WhisperToMe (talk) 19:52, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed the "except for those traveling or living outside of China" bit when I reverted before, and I agree it does make the claim more reasonable (many of the examples I mentioned in this discussion at my talk page were mainly regarding Chinese people abroad). Nevertheless, I still think the addition as currently worded presents things as more black-and-white than they really are. For instance:

• "Western publications preserve the Chinese naming order, with the family name first, followed by the given name" – makes it sound as if this is 100% of the time, which it isn't. Could be improved just by saying "often" or "tend to" or something (although anything stronger than that is, I think, oversimplification, like I mentioned before; this varies depending on the publication and depending on the person being referred to).
• "The presentation of Chinese names in English differs from the presentations of modern Japanese names, since modern Japanese names are usually reversed to fit the western order in English." – same issue, I think.
• "western publications began using the Hanyu Pinyin romanization system instead of earlier romanization systems;" – this is mostly true, although a lot of historical figures' names are still spelled with older systems (Chiang Kai-Shek, Lao-tzu, etc.). It's true for the vast majority of cases, though, so maybe some clarification could just be added to specify that pinyin is used for modern names or something. rʨanaɢ (talk) 21:53, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

1. It's fine if "often" is added.

2. Perhaps "the usual presentation" and "the usual presentations" to make it clear that it's not 100% of the time.

3. For the Hanyu one we could add something like "to refer to places and officials from Mainland China" as implied by the examples "Beijing" and "Deng Xiaoping" in the source

WhisperToMe (talk) 22:33, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm fine with all that, although I think "to refer to places and officials" is unnecessarily restrictive. Even if those are the only examples given in the source, in truth AFAIK Hanyu Pinyin is used for pretty much anyone in the mainland born after, say, the 50s, and for many people before then, too; the only exceptions I can think of are historical figures and non-mainlanders (e.g., Taiwan, HK, and Macau people, who don't use Hanyu Pinyin spellings as much) rʨanaɢ (talk) 23:02, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

I restored Chinese name#Chinese names in English and made several changes WhisperToMe (talk) 04:54, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Spring Temple Buddha

Big!

It is the tallest statue in the world, yet the article has no photo. If anyone knows where to get a photo, please upload it. Here's what it looks like: [1] Thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:25, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Translation help

Hello- I was wondering if someone may be able to help translate the last paragraph of this article (PDF). I'm working on Fomitiporia ellipsoidea, which will hopefully be nominated at featured article candidates in the near future, and the last paragraph of the article may contain some helpful details. J Milburn (talk) 10:56, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Nothing like a nice translation to get you going in the morning. The bolded words are places I am not certain about, and I don't know if I rendered some of the chemical names correctly. Another China person can feel free to make corrections.--Danaman5 (talk) 14:00, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Steroidal chemical compounds are an important constituent part of cellular membranes; they can directly influence the mobility of the membrane, and play a part in cellular membranes’ physiological function of distinguishing and regulating cells. (Parks & Casey 1995; Bloch 1992; Weete 1989) Therefore, steroidal chemical compounds demonstrate excellent pharmacological activity. For example, ergosterol and hydrogenated ergosterol have a clear inhibiting effect on MCF-7 tumor cell precursors (Ding et. al. 2009); ergosterol-7; 22-alkene, 3(Beta)-Alcohol also shows clear activity against BEL-7402 and MGC-803 tumor cell precursors (Lu Yi and Weng Xinchu 2007); ergosterol-7, 22-diene-3-ketone has excellent anti-inflammatory activity (Deng Zhipeng 2004). In addition, steroidal components are very important in taxology. Generally, speaking, cholesterol is the main steroidal component of relatively primitive fungoid groups, and ergosterol is the main steroidal component of relatively advanced fungoid groups (Weete 1989). This research result shows that Fomitiporia ellipsoidea fruiting bodies contain abundant and diverse steroidal chemical compounds, indicating that this fungus may have relatively strong pharmacological activity. Therefore, there is a need to carry out deeper research on the activity of the steroidal chemical compounds or steroidal ramifications discussed in this paper, as well as on other mid-level components, and so on.

Gosh, that's impressive. Thank you very much; I should hopefully be able to use some of that. J Milburn (talk) 07:41, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Demographics_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China

Demographics_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China#Ethnic_groups Where are data for tujia? What year(census) this data?--Kaiyr (talk) 13:26, 15 August 2011 (UTC) How many Yi peoples are there in Panzhihua?--Kaiyr (talk) 13:49, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Chinese aircraft carrier

Chinese aircraft carrier might be converted into an article... now that some information on the current aircraft carrier and development leading to it can be moved from Future Chinese aircraft carrier. Chinese aircraft carrier ex-Varyag documents the current ship. Chinese aircraft carrier (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) has an edit history, and it was also merged into PLAN some years ago. 70.24.246.151 (talk) 12:14, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

FAC nomination of Chinese Indonesians

The article on Chinese Indonesians is a featured article candidate. Editors from this project, whose scope covers this article, are invited to participate in its review. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 04:53, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Help with The Trial of Zhen Xiao

I recently wrote this article on the first person tried in China for a crime committed in New Zealand. I believe it makes sense from a New Zealand point of view, but would greatly appreciate someone familiar with Chinese language and culture looking over it. In particular I'm uncertain of the handling of the name of the accused and the correct name of the court and exact crime. Links to Chinese-language sources would also be good. Stuartyeates (talk) 17:50, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

General practice on Wikipedia seems to be to render Chinese names as "Last Name-First Name", in keeping with the Chinese custom. In other words, the article should be titled "Trial of Xiao Zhen", because the name of the accused is 肖真 (Xiao Zhen). I will add some Chinese sources to the article shortly.--Danaman5 (talk) 04:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your help, it looks great. Stuartyeates (talk) 20:13, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Shanghai Airlines

The last time I checked the Shanghai Airlines head office was in this building: File:Shanghai Airlines - 212 Jiangning Road.jpg Now Shanghai Airlines's site is only in Chinese and I cannot find confirmation that its HQ is still at 212 Jiangning Road Can somebody please check if the airline still has its HQ there, or if it moved the HQ to China Eastern's facilities? If someone is in Shanghai, is it okay if you check if 212 Jiangning is still occupied by Shanghai Airlines? Thank you WhisperToMe (talk) 16:45, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Move request which you may be interested in

There is an open move request at Talk:China which affects the articles China and People's Republic of China which many of you may be interested in participating in. Please make yourself aware of the discussions on the talk page and the current contents of both of the articles affected before voicing your position at talk:China#Requested move August 2011. Please do not respond here. - Metal lunchbox ^(talk) 18:45, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Ma Bukang's Birthday translation

Ma Bukang's birthday needs to be translated into English to fit into the attributes of the "Birth Date" attributes. I have left a comment about this on his Discussion page. Adamdaley (talk) 05:17, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Nanjing Normal University, China

Please have someone from this project review this thread at ANI and determine if a comment is appropriate. It seems that this group will benefit from mentor-ship if this project has sufficient resources to get involved.--My76Strat (talk) 13:45, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Any help from this project would be really appriciated as there are a good number of new Chinese editors that need your support. Agathoclea (talk) 14:33, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I'll second that; there appear to be quite a lot of new editors who are mostly (not all) editing articles related to China in some way; it would be really good to help them. bobrayner (talk) 16:20, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

see User:Bobrayner/NNU for a list of users and articles - admins needed to take a look at the redlinks to see if something can be salvaged. Agathoclea (talk) 16:28, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Economic history of China before 1911

Please see Economic history of China before 1911, where there is a discussion on the economy of China over the last 2 millennia, and the accuracy of the description used in this article, China and Asia. See also Talk:China and Talk:Asia for related discussions.

70.24.244.20 (talk) 15:01, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Third opinion needed on article Hakka people

Talk:Hakka_people#Removal_of_my_info_of_Han_Chinese_origins_in_central_China.2C_third_party_opinion_needed

Someone keeps pushing a "Hakka is a foreign tribe" POV, while removing my edits about Hakka's origins from Han Chinese in central China. Few of my refs are removed too.

The edit [2], the relevant section is "Origins, migrations and group identification" (first paragraph) and subsection "Hakka as Han". 146.50.145.8 (talk) 11:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

bestcollegeschina

Does anyone have the skinny on bestcollegeschina.com? Is it a sanctioned admission "partner" or just claims to be? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Anna I am Dr. Aqeel(李龙)Director China Affiars of Cosmo Enterprises Pvt Ltd(www.bestcollegeschina.com). Our purpose of adding our links to wiki are not for promotion but to avoid any fraud in admission processing. I know Mr. Compendium very well, His name is Ric**** , Nationality Kenyan , 4th year MBBS student at Wenzhou Medical College and even he himself was recruited by Cosmo Enterprises Pvt Ltd(www.bestcollegeschina.com). If you have questions or doubt about our partnership with all institues mentioned on our web then please send email to study@bestcollegeschina.com. We'll send you scan copies of authorization letters issued by all instituition on panel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.178.90.119 (talk) 15:18, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi doctor. In point form:

• I'm replying here for visibility, because this refers to mutiple articles about China, and involves numerous editors.
• I don't really believe anyone because it's impossible to know what's true at this point. Compendium brought it to my attention, and I formed an opinion based on what I saw.
• Writing to bestcollegeschina.com to ask if they're trustworthy is like calling "May B. Shady Investments Ltd." and asking if they're on the level.
• Please don't simply make a new account. That's sockpuppetry, and not allowed.
• Don't make any more legal threats. That's a big no-no.
• As it stands, the company in question is a profit org, asks for passport info online, and conceals its name. The onus is on you to prove the credibility and neccessity of the links.
• I'll be watching your talk in case you have anything to say.

Have a good day,

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:20, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

For those of you who may not understand English idioms (readers who may have English as a second or foreign language), the example name "May B. Shady" sounds like "may be shady" as in "this company may be untrustworthy and may practice fraud" WhisperToMe (talk) 16:47, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you WhisperToMe. You're right. Please forgive my lack of consideration.

To rephrase in a clear way: When a company says "Trust us.", it is unreliable information. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:46, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

September 2011

A couple of apparently related IPs are trying to restore the disputed external links:

• 115.221.92.43 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) (restored link to Wenzhou Medical College) [3]
• 125.108.226.44 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) (restored link to Wenzhou Medical College) [4]

Now, it seems, there is an attempt to introduce the possibly-fraudulent www.wzmu.net website via these images: [5][6][7]

I'm not sure what the policy is here.

(Further info at my talk) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:53, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

There's the Wikipedia:Spam blacklist. Quigley (talk) 02:00, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

• If Anna thinks www.wzmu.net is fraudulent website then there must have some kind of proof if they are fraud or legitimate. Wmc.cosmo (talk) 12:10, 13 September 2011 (UTC)125.108.226.44 (talk) 12:03, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

I said possibly. Why? One editor thinks so, and when I visit the site, it links to bestcolleges without obviously saying so. The site appears as the official university site, yet there is a .cn.edu site which is certainly official. And, at bestcolleges, your passport number is asked for online. That all seems suspicious to me.

You wrote: "...there must have some kind of proof if they are fraud or legitimate...": Well, you are related to the site, so perhaps you can enlighten us. Thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:34, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

If they're asking for such sensitive information then the burden of proof is definitely on them to demonstrate that they are legitimate. The website is so shaddy that the bar is gonna be pretty high for demonstrating that its not just a scam. Check this out,

"1: Please submit scan copies of Following documents on draqeel@msn.com.

i. Passport Scan Copy

ii. Transcripts/Mark sheets"

Email your passport and uni transcripts to some msn account. This is dangerous stuff and we should be vigilant to keep these kinds of links off WP. I know this Nigerian prince that's got some money he's trying to get rid of, maybe he should check out this medical school. - Metal lunchbox ^(talk) 23:36, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Even the article China's University and College Admission System (CUCAS) is really lacking sources and is now up for AfD. As for the prince, don't worry. I got him sorted out, and am waiting for my check. Any day now... Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:35, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

91kt.com - Cartoon Network PRC

Just discovered http://www.91kt.com which has Cartoon Network branding. Do you have any idea what this site is? And judging from there, in PRC:

• Does Cartoon Network have its own television channel?
• Or, is it just a television block on some local terrestrial TV channels?
• Or, is it only available in web streaming service right now?

JSH-alive ^{talk • cont • mail} 03:15, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

It looks like merely a website providing browser games. There's nothing in that webpage implying relevance with a TV channel. And the Chinese company who has a logo at the bottom is one specialized in computer games developing.--Certiffon (talk) 12:47, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

PRC task force

I think for atleast administrative reasons, a PRC taskforce flag should be implemented at WPCHINA banner. So we can indicate PRC articles clearly. Especially now with China being the PRC article, this WikiProject would be identified with being the PRC wikiproject, and not the general China wikiproject. 76.65.128.90 (talk) 09:16, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

We could also add the PRC portal to the TF PRC line in the WPBanner. 76.65.128.90 (talk) 08:37, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Portal:China

There is a suggestion to overwrite Portal:China with Portal:People's Republic of China at Portal talk:People's Republic of China. 76.65.128.90 (talk) 09:16, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

See also Portal talk:China. 70.24.247.61 (talk) 04:46, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Category:China and Category:People's Republic of China

Category:China is to be replaced by the PRC category... see the CFD discussion. 70.24.247.61 (talk) 04:02, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, category to look at is Category:People's Republic of China where the link is located. 70.24.247.61 (talk) 07:45, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Sources

• Wang, Cheng, Yu Wenyuan, Li Wenxin, and Xu Zhuoqun. "A Novel Method of Automobiles’ Chinese Nickname Recognition." Peking University.
• However look out for the parts that say "Refer to Wikipedia. http://www.wikipedia.org"

WhisperToMe (talk) 03:07, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Naming convention for dynasties

There is a proposal at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese)#On removing capitalization from "dynasty" in wiki titles to uncapitalize "dynasty" in titles like Han Dynasty, Song Dynasty, etc. Editors may wish to comment there. Kanguole 10:54, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

XXX Mountain or Mount XXX: A quick poll please

Before I open a can of worms, I'd just like your preference. XXX Mountain or Mount XXX? (I'm aware of current convention and have read old discussions.) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:48, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

• Mount XXX. John Smith's (talk) 10:53, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
• Depends. I quite like the convention, if it's what I'm imagining: Xxx Mountain for adjectives and common nouns translated into English, Mount Xxx for proper nouns and non-English words, so Blue Mountain but Mount Anna, Sugar-Loaf Mountain but Mount Superbus? But it's good to make exceptions for euphony and irony, of course, so Mount Pleasant (a rubbish-tip). NebY (talk) 15:12, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
• User:NebY's thoughts are a good summary of the convention I prefer.Ferox Seneca (talk) 03:49, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Okay. I appreciate your input. The reason I ask is that over here in China, you'd never hear an English-speaker say Mount Xxxx. The literal translation is always Xxxx Mountain. I don't think anything translated is ever Mount Xxxx. I discussed this issued back in 2009. The whole Mount Xxxx for Chinese mountains just doesn't sit right with me. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:46, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Is it native English speakers who say it that way, or Chinese people? And, if it is native English speakers who say it like that, what are their academic backgrounds? The way that you say it sounds like a literal translation of the characters (i.e."Taishan" = "Tai Mountain"), but most academic writers that I'm familiar with have generally translated the names just the way that User:NebY describes.Ferox Seneca (talk) 06:14, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

I wonder, would those English-speakers be bi/multi-lingual, or at least know the meaning of the Chinese word in Xxx Mountain? That way they'd feel they were saying Mount Five-finger if they said Mount Wuzhi so they just don't do that. Of course, if you can think of some Yyy Mountains where Yyy is a proper name in Chinese, that idea collapses into rubble. NebY (talk) 07:09, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

My reply in point form:

• Both native English speakers and Chinese people say Xxxx Mountain.
• The English speakers (my friends) who say it, are morons, and couldn't spell "academic background".
• Those English-speakers are bi/multi-lingual, so they are translating literally.
• I just checked a dozen books, and I think you and User:NebY are right.
• This is a dumb question, but: Do we go by literature, or what is commonly used by people everyday, in this sort of case? (Of course, academic works won't reflect what is commonly used. Newspaper articles, et cetera will.)
• I just called several Chinese student friends (not morons). They make up the vast, vast majority of English speakers in China. 100% said "Xxx Mountain almost 100% of the time". But of course, that's original research.
• Thank you all for taking the time. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:34, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

• You're welcome.
• The names people use (and if we're botanists, the pseudo-Latin name in brackets).
• Just in case anyone draws the wrong conclusions from Anna's statements, I should emphasise that I am a native English speaker but I am not her friend. NebY (talk) 20:03, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

• So, if that's the case, then shouldn't they be Xxxx Mountain? Should I now post at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese)?
• I should emphasize that I'm not Chinese, but live in China, and am not NebY's friend. This is the first time our paths have crossed. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:19, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

That says "Naming "X Mountain", "Mount X", "X Shan" depends on English usage." Are you being criticised or reverted for following that rule? Surely we all know (well ok, I can't speak for aforesaid) English usage varies from place to place. NebY (talk) 07:27, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm not being criticized or reverted. I'm a bit of a stickler for consistency. In China, the culture is very homogenous, so usage is nearly 100% "Xxxx Mountain". I brought this up because the convention guideline says the opposite. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:23, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Is this guy dead?

Hi. I'm looking for a little help from native Chinese speakers. On zh.wiki Bruno Wu has been dead since last July but there is no trace of that information in English-language media. Of course famous Chinese people often pass away without anyone noticing in the Western world but Bruno Wu is extremely rich, married to a very famous woman and is even the vice-chairman of an English football club. So it's natural to assume that the zh.wiki article has been vandalized and I'd appreciate it if someone can help me confirm this (and of course fix the zh article). Thanks, Pichpich (talk) 15:01, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Apparently, Bruno Wu died last July 2. The article looks like it was translated semi-professionally from a Chinese source, but it is still readable.Ferox Seneca (talk) 21:17, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Shame on me for missing that. Thanks, Pichpich (talk) 23:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Big change at high importance template Template:Infobox Chinese

For all those interested, there's a rather big change applied to this infobox (see last section talkpage) with removing and unhiding fields. --Cold Season (talk) 21:40, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Radicals

Hi, there is a problem at "Radical (Chinese character)#Position of radical within character" in that the section is presented as if it applies specifically to kanji, which doesn't sit well in the context of the article. What is needed is a general explanation, as it applies generally to Chinese characters (and then any information specific to Japanese use can be presented as supplementary). What I would like to do is confirm that the "Position", "Meaning" and "Example" columns in this table apply generally to Chinese characters (not just in a kanji context), and also add a new column for the Chinese names, in the same vein as the existing "Japanese name" column. Can a Chinese speaker help with this? I am asking here as that article's talk page is not very active. I am happy to do the work of actually editing the table if the information is available. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.209.119 (talk) 19:13, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

The examples given are correct for Chinese as well as Japanese, but I don't think I've ever heard of special names in Chinese for radicals positioned in particular spots in the character. I've always just heard people say generic things like "on the top", "on the left side", etc. Perhaps another Chinese speaker can chime in on this.--Danaman5 (talk) 00:57, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. The section also says that "There are fourteen different radical positions, seven basic types and seven variant." Is this split into basic types and variants a well established concept that applies to Chinese use as much as Japanese? I just want to be sure it isn't a categorisation scheme that suggested itself to someone purely on the basis of the Japanese names. 86.179.112.74 (talk) 20:56, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

That seems like a Japanese thing to me. Chinese dictionaries order radicals by the number of strokes in the radical, not its position relative to the rest of the character. The same radical can be in different places in different characters anyway, so it wouldn't make any sense.--Danaman5 (talk) 22:57, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm confused now. Are you saying that the whole concept of 14 different radical positions (i.e., the whole table, basically) seems like a Japanese thing? That wasn't what I understood from your earlier answer. Or do you just mean that the split into seven basic types and seven variants is a Japanese thing (which was the question I was trying to ask)? I don't think this section is claiming that radical position is critical to looking up the character in a dictionary by radical, or is a replacement for stroke counting. I think it's just explaining that these different positions exist. 86.160.215.167 (talk) 03:00, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Bilateral relations of the People's Republic of China

The entries in this category are very inconsistent, some use "China", some "People's Republic of China". Which one should it use? --The Evil IP address (talk) 15:40, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Based on a cursory observation, I believe that these articles mostly refer specifically to bilateral relationships with the PRC. I would use the term "People's Republic of China" in cases where the articles deal only with modern, post-1949 China. Consider using "China" if the articles also discuss bilateral relationships with historical, non-PRC Chinese governments.Ferox Seneca (talk) 18:11, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Just use "China". If the title is "PRC", then people will use that as an excuse to create forks for pre-1949 information or to exclude relevant information. If there's no pre-1949 information yet, then someone can expand it later under the broader title. There's usually no reason to create such a sharp break at 1949. Quigley (talk) 20:36, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Quigley's argument makes sense. Unless there's opposition, I'll move them when I fix dashes in the article. --The Evil IP address (talk) 11:40, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

How can you say there's no reason to make a sharp break at 1949? The new government disavowed all previous treaties and bilateral relationships when it gained power, and the communists and nationalists had polar opposite relations with many states (the US is a good example). I would use PRC for all modern relations. Then again, I opposed moving PRC to China, but since that has gone through, we may have to just live with having China in article titles even when it creates confusion.--Danaman5 (talk) 23:02, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

The PRC didn't wish to renegotiate China's bilateral treaties because it thought it was creating some totally new country that wasn't "China". The idea was that the new regime would not respect unjust treaties that had been thrust upon a weak China by force. No one is "confused" by the fact that the PRC rules, identifies with, and is identified as, China. There are certainly people who wish that the PRC didn't rule China, but even when Wikipedia indulged their POV, it didn't change reality; it only confused many more people. Quigley (talk) 02:07, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Has anyone stopped to think how this affects the articles for the Republic of China/Taiwan? Whether or not this is due to recent changes, I've noticed that Category:China–Japan relations contains relations for both the ROC and PRC. This seems ridiculous. And please don't respond with a political POV line, let's look at this from what ordinary readers understand. If we're going to refer to the PRC as China, we have to differentiate between it and the ROC/Taiwan. John Smith's (talk) 12:25, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

I had a look at China – Indonesia relations. This refers to 1950 onwards, so I see no reason not to refer to it as the PRC. John Smith's (talk) 12:30, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

The content now refers to 1950s onwards, but what if someone wants to add information about China's interactions with Indonesia before PRC was established? (Not a long stretch, seeing that there has been generations of diaspora dating to the Ming). Many countries in the world likewise has had relations with China before the current government is established. So I suggest using "China" for articles that can potentially cover bilateral relations before and after 1949, from where "PRC" and "ROC" articles can be split if size is a concern. Evidently, my use of "China" in this case is a stand-in for Greater China. _dk (talk) 21:28, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Requested move Lop Lake -> Lop Nur

See related discussion here. Yaan (talk) 22:18, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Taiwan ->Taiwan Island and Republic of China -> Taiwan -- Requested move

See Talk:Republic of China where Taiwan is requested to be renamed as Taiwan Island and Republic of China is requested to be moved to Taiwan.

70.24.248.23 (talk) 09:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

University question

Okay, so Shandong University of Finance and Economics and Shandong Economic University - Are they two separate institutions, or the same? WhisperToMe (talk) 16:47, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

They're not exactly the same. Shandong University of Finance and Economics is a new University founded this year, combining that Shandong Economic University and a Shandong University of Finance. Though, I think these two pages can be merged with a redirection.--Certiffon (talk) 12:57, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Why not just say at the top that it merged with Shandong University of Finance, and the merged version is at Shandong University of Finance and Economics ? Then the history up to the creation of the merged entity would be clearly delineated at the two articles at the old institution names. 70.24.248.23 (talk) 07:01, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

China Quarterly articles

The most popular China Quarterly articles are now available for free download: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displaySpecialArticle?jid=CQY&bespokeId=3224 WhisperToMe (talk) 05:08, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

naming discussion at Xixabangma

There is a naming discussion at talk:Xixabangma. There is a new poll to determine support for the move from Shishapangma to Xixabangma. If you are interested, please provide your opinion here.--Wikimedes (talk) 00:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

RfC on Senkaku Islands

There is currently an RfC on Talk:Senkaku Islands, a page that is marked as being of interest to this WikiProject. We would like to invite comments from other users at Talk:Senkaku Islands#Request for comment: Article naming. Qwyrxian (talk) 04:30, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

AfD

Please see: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Falun Gong’s Theory on Male-Female Dual Cultivation.Steve Dufour (talk) 17:17, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello

Anyone who can help me get started on Chinese history/philosophy/literature stuff? Good at reviewing and writing articles. Plus I need something to give me a break from climate change articles!--Shadowy Sorcerer (talk) 01:35, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Civil Aviation Administration of China

Does anyone know where the aircraft accident reports from the Civil Aviation Administration of China are? It would be interesting to read them.

Several crashes happened in Mainland China over the years... Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 04:36, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Dynasty Pages missing CE or BCE

Can someone add to the dates on the dynasty pages either CE or BCE? For someone who doesn't know off the top of their heads when the Song Dynasty is, the Tang Dynasty, etc, it would be useful. It breaks the idea that it is supposed to be an encyclopedia for the general public if you miss putting in BCE or CE... A small addition to the header and the sidebar would be useful. Many of the pages I found on the dynasties were this way... regardless of if they were BCE or CE. Thank you. --Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 08:10, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

1nd ed.

Hello, should this “1nd ed.” replaced by “1st ed.”? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=%221nd+ed.%22&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&redirs=1&profile=advanced --Diwas (talk) 21:02, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes. (The exception would be if the error "1nd" was in the source. In that case replace "1nd" with "1nd (sic)" to show that you are faithfully copying an error.)--Wikimedes (talk) 01:53, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Given [8] and [9], probably "1st ed." is correct.--Wikimedes (talk) 02:10, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanx, done! --Diwas (talk) 01:01, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

China National Aviation Corporation

Are China National Aviation Corporation and China National Aviation Holding Company the same company? WhisperToMe (talk) 06:32, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Chinese public dancing

I'm looking for the right name, or if the article already exists. The topic is those large groups of (mostly) women who congregate in the mornings and evenings for synchronized dancing. It's like Yangge, but is informal, with no costumes. The women all wear the same colour (usually black), but no fancy colours or props, is performed to music from a portable amp, mainly for entertainment and exercise. Hundreds of millions take part each day, loads of sources, I've got the pics, and an ogg vorbis video to boot. Worth an article indeed. Any thoughts on the best name? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:54, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Chinese Flash Mob Dance? --Ghostexorcist (talk) 05:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

The first term that came to mind was "公园跳舞" (park dance), which gave 160 kGhits, including this official one. But it's not an article in the Chinese Wikipedia. Baidu doesn't have one either, but it uses this term in a number of articles, including this one. "跳舞健身" seems to be quite popular, too with 800 kGhits, but that is of course less specific. — Sebastian 12:39, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks for digging. I just started it as Chinese fitness dancing. I figure that makes the most sense for now. Eventually it will find its correct name, and I'll make a bunch of redirect pages. I'll build it up over the next few days. By the way, I asked a large table of people at dinner tonight. Everyone started commenting and it got really noisy for about two minutes. Finally, they all agreed that there's no official name for it. Again, thanks for digging. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:48, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

I like "Chinese fitness dancing"; it fits nicely to "跳舞健身". Maybe you just coined a new term! — Sebastian 20:52, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Anna asked me to thank you. :)   — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 15:38, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Funny, she was just here a moment before you herself. What people outsource nowadays! — Sebastian 18:11, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, the GFW objects to something in this section, so she can't touch it. :(   — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 04:52, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Ah, ok. I can handle things here in edit mode, if I know the section number. Plus, it's watchlisted, so I can see activity. Cheers. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:16, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Chinese vegetables

I'm looking for the correct Mandarin name, and species name if possible. (2 and 3 are the same, the former being pickled.) Many thanks.

• 
• 
• File:Chinese vegetable 003.jpgA

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 15:15, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

2 and 3 are 榨菜 (zhà cài; Brassica juncea, subspecies tatsai). Not sure about #1, but it does look like a brassicacea, too. — Sebastian 18:23, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks. I've moved the files and added descriptions. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:45, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, where did you move them? Now they don't display anymore. — Sebastian 18:33, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

I named them in the most searchable way I could think of.

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• 
• 

Here's the cat: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Chinese_food_ingredients

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:32, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Image identification help request

Hi. Anna has some images at User:Anna Frodesiak/Violet sandbox that she would like help with.   — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 04:31, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Questions about List of cities in China‎

I tried sorting this list by "Urban Population", but that doesn't work. Can this be fixed?

Also, what does "Rank" mean in this table? Who determines this rank? It doesn't seem to be urban population, since 重庆 with over 28 million comes after 武汉 with under 10 million. Bandiaozi (talk) 03:48, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Portal intro

Would an expert please have a look at the recent edits at Portal:People's Republic of China/Intro? I suspect they should be reverted per WP:UNDUE but I don't want to dismiss them out of hand. -- John of Reading (talk) 17:09, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Reverted; that was pretty blatant. Shrigley (talk) 17:49, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Template:Weibo

If anybody sees articles using regular links to Weibo, use the template instead.--Lpmfx (talk) 20:07, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Chinese speakers needed

Hi, please could we have some Chinese speakers to help with the deletion review for Po Sum On at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2012 January 6? Thanks very much and all the best—S Marshall T/C 23:10, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Speedy closure of WikiProject_China/Uyghurs workgroup Mfd

WP:WikiProject_China/Uyghurs workgroup was nominated for Mfd by Shrigley yesterday, It was closed 26 minutes later by Nihonjoe who made the workgroup into a redirect, preempting any scrutiny or discussion by Mfd participants, see here. I've started a discussion about this, please see here. (Of course the Mfd should also have been announced here in the first place.) Thanks. --Kleinzach 02:06, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

You should be bringing that to WP:DRV as an improper closure. 76.65.128.132 (talk) 08:00, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I was hoping for a response from the nominator, Shrigley, and this project. The closure was out of line but I'm not going to challenge it if people are happy with the redirect. So — opinions please! --Kleinzach 03:04, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Translation request: Startling by Each Step to 步步驚心 (電視劇)

Hi, I'm NeoBatfreak. The reason I'm writing is that I am requesting translation of the plot summary of Startling by Each Step to 步步驚心 (電視劇). If possible, please tranlate the summary and paste the translated text on my talk page. PLEASE? Thank you very much.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 00:29, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Yangzhou Museum

Hi! I found Yangzhou Museum as part of some clean-up initiatives at the Museum WikiProject and this one really needs some help from Mandarin readers. One source says it's in a 1500 year old building but the photo appears to be a new museum. There don't seem to be enough sources in English from which to write this article and based on previous requests, we don't have enough active Mandarin readers at WP:Museum so I'm flagging this for your project. Thanks in advance StarM 03:14, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

 Partly done I think! My reading ability in Mandarin is rudimentary, however, the Yangzhou Museam appears to be now co-located, with the China Block Printing Museum in the building in the photograph. It was formaerly located in the temple building. Pol430 talk to me 23:42, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks so much. I got stuck between a lack of English sourcing and poorly translated Chinese sources. If anyone has time and if you enjoy museums may I also suggest The Old Museum of Wisteria. Similar sourcing issue, likely compounded by uncertainty around the name of the museum. Thanks again StarM 04:04, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Also done, it would appear the building this article relates to is a historic building that is under the control of the Changzhou Museum. It appears to be colloquially known as 'The Old Museum of Wisteria' but was originally built as 'The Sun Pavilion'. I have re-written the article into better English with the help of a couple of the sources. A native Mandarin speaker may be able to add more. Pol430 talk to me 00:37, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow, much clearer now. The back story will help with some additional sourcing, I'm sure. Thanks again for all your help StarM 04:11, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Qian Zhijun/Little Fatty DRV debate

Hi! There is a debate over whether Qian Zhijun is now notable enough for Wikipedia,. Please see: Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Qian_Zhijun Especially for people who know Chinese, it is appreciated if you review the noticeboard post! WhisperToMe (talk) 02:08, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Does anyone know how I can find the box office numbers of "The University Days of a Dog" (一只狗的大学时光)? Official DVD sales would be good too!

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 17:06, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Now it's at DRV: Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2012 January 12 WhisperToMe (talk) 22:53, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Shanghai art world

Via List of women photographers, I discovered the article on one Rose Tang (seemingly a "persona" rather than a person). This led me to articles on Island6, Liu Dao, Wang Dongma, Thomas Charvériat, Zane Mellupe and Ifa gallery. I haven't yet looked in their histories, but they link to each other a lot and not much to anywhere else, they have little independent sourcing for what they say, and they obviously have certain other features in common. Indeed, it all seems a bit of a "walled garden". Could anyone here who, unlike me, knows something of the "art scene" of Shanghai please take a look at some of these? -- Hoary (talk) 06:32, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Crossposted here. -- Hoary (talk) 02:30, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Ejiao

Just a heads up, ejiao is being proposed to be merged with/redirected to donkey-hide gelatin. Your input is welcome at Talk:Ejiao, thanks. _dk (talk) 14:59, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Request assistance: Startling by Each Step (novel) (步步惊心)

Hi, I am requesting help that someone please have some of the information from this website to the page Startling by Each Step (novel). Thank you very much.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 21:07, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

NC-TW straw poll

A straw poll has been opened on the question of whether WP:NC-TW represents current consensus and so should remain a current guideline. Opine at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese)#NC-TW straw poll. Shrigley (talk) 17:16, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

User:Tenmei's Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Senkaku Islands/Proposed decision#Tenmei banned for one year

User:Tenmei has contributed to WP:Japan articles enormously. However Tenmei is now discussed to be banned for one year. Please see Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Senkaku Islands/Proposed decision#Concerns. Although Tenmei is some problem in editing style in contentious articles, Tenmei should not be banned without any restrictions. I would appreciate any comment there from WP:China participants. --Phoenix7777 (talk) 11:53, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Chen Shuozhen

Appears to be worth an article but this looks like a machine translation of a Chinese text and is almost unsalavagable in its current form. Could someone kind please check for copyvios and fix this? Thanks Spartaz ^Humbug! 04:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Stone (Chinese mass)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was:

• Stone (Chinese mass) is merged to Picul.
• Stone (imperial mass) has been moved to Stone (unit). See the latter move discussion at Talk:Stone (imperial mass)#Move?. EdJohnston (talk) 05:34, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Stone (Chinese mass) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is under discussion, it has been suggested to be merged into Stone (imperial mass) to become Stone (unit), or to merge into Picul, or both. 76.65.128.132 (talk) 08:15, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for alerting the WikiProject. I haven't seen the names Stone (unit) suggested; I would prefer Picul for the same reasons why "Buddhahood" was preferred over "Buddha (...)" here. — Sebastian 17:23, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, one of the discussions is at Talk:Stone (imperial mass). 76.65.128.132 (talk) 07:56, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh, thanks, I hadn't even been aware that there exists a very different unit by the same name. In that case, I would even more favor Picul; as the "stone" meaning is not even the main one in Chinese. — Sebastian 08:13, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

There is also a listing at Chinese units of measurement. Benjwong (talk) 05:54, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm in favour of merging Stone (Chinese mass) to Picul (with only a hatnote at Stone (unit) which Stone (imperial mass) should be moved to). But are the stone & picul the same unit with a differnt name? Stone (Chinese mass) says a stone is 120 catties whereas Picul gives a definition of 100 catties. Does the unit have two different definitions as well as two different names? No, that's a serious question: how many ounces are there in a gallon, how many pounds in a ton, how many joules in a calorie? It's quite possible ... indeed common ... that a unit have different names and different definitions. JIMp _talk·cont 03:00, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

If you look at the imperial mass article, it isn't actually about the British unit, it is about the traditional European unit, with lots of different names and values. Similarly, the "picul" article is about a traditional measure with differing values depending on location. The name "picul" is derived from the Malayan version. (Just as the name stone for the European unit is derived from the British version) 76.65.128.132 (talk) 08:03, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

China Food TV

Hi! I just moved China Food TV to the mainspace. Does anyone here know more about the cable channel and/or the production company? Some supporting info would be nice too :) WhisperToMe (talk) 18:30, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Which film is this?

In File:Qianzhijunexamples.png on the second row, second picture from the left, which movie is this from? WhisperToMe (talk) 01:16, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Hero, in the pic is a character played by Zhang Ziyi. --Cold Season (talk) 01:30, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 01:46, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Proposed split of Hainan into Hainan Island and Hainan Province

Please give your input at Talk:Hainan#Separate articles and categories for Hainan Island and Hainan Province. Thanks much GotR ^Talk 04:06, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Template:Vertical text RTL

FYI, {{Vertical text RTL}} is under development at WT:JAPAN for traditional text that is oriented vertically, from right to left. 70.49.124.157 (talk) 05:39, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Giant pots which come in twos and sit outside restaurants making soup

Hello. Does anyone you know what this is?

• 
• 
• 
• 

They are all over the country, and I think they are sort of called 缸, but I forget. Many thanks for any help you can offer. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:21, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

    Are they sand pots or clay pots (shaguo/沙鍋)? Ri xiao jie (talk) 04:51, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Requested move of Anshan, Liaoning

Please give your input at Talk:Anshan, Liaoning#Second Requested move. Thanks much GotR ^Talk 03:33, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's History Month

Hi everyone. March is Women's History Month and I'm hoping a few folks here at WP:China will have interest in putting on events (on and off wiki) related to women's roles in Chinese history, society and culture. We've created an event page on English Wikipedia (please translate!) and I hope you'll find the inspiration to participate. These events can take place off wiki, like edit-a-thons, or on wiki, such as themes and translations. Please visit the page here: WikiWomen's History Month. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to seeing events take place! SarahStierch (talk) 21:33, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Train accidents in PRC

About Wenzhou train collision, which PRC agency is responsible for investigating train accidents? We know CAAC investigates air accidents, and the MSA investigates maritime accidents. Which agency investigates rail accidents? WhisperToMe (talk) 02:00, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Chinese romanization template

A user has just modified {{Infobox Chinese}}, which is used for a lot of articles under WikiProject China's scope, in order to add a prominent, required option for ad-hoc romanizations. I started a discussion about it here, and you are all encouraged to participate. Shrigley (talk) 19:37, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Vote on requested move - "Republic of China" to "Taiwan"

A vote on the above proposal is being voted on here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republic_of_China#Responses Wider involvement by Wikipedia Community would be desirable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.28.118 (talk) 11:05, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Birman on Yau

A related discussion is taking place at Talk:Manifold Destiny#Birman. Tkuvho (talk) 08:15, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

East Asian calligraphy?

East Asian calligraphy has been proposed to be renamed to Chinese calligraphy, see Talk:East Asian calligraphy

70.24.251.71 (talk) 08:19, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

QRpedia

QRpedia is a WikimediaUK project which uses QR codes to deliver Wikipedia articles to users, in their preferred language. We need a version of the article about it, in Chinese. Can anyone oblige, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:14, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Proposed classics merger

It is proposed that Four Books and Five Classics be merged with Thirteen Classics to form an article called "Confucian classics" (discussion). Kanguole 09:49, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Yang Jian (Water Margin)

This article, which I found out patrolling new articles, seems to be a machine translation from Vietnamese. I tried to copyedit it but I can not make sense of what is written there, especially since the names of characters and emperors are all from Vietnamese. Help would be greatly appreciated.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:08, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

File:China administrative.svg

Recently there has been a dispute regarding File:China administrative.svg: Should South Tibet and Taiwan Island be included within this map, but as grey, to demonstrate an official territorial claim with no actual control? The map originally showed de facto PRC territory in yellow, and disputed/claimed territories in grey; in the past few days editors have removed these areas, citing that "it is not WP:NPOV" to show Taiwan and other disputed areas on a map of China. If you would like to join the discussion, you can visit either Commons:File talk:China administrative.svg or Talk:China. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 04:53, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

China Category:WikiProject China

Merge with China-related topics notice board?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was merged.

---

In this week's Signpost, members of WikiProject Poland, one of the more active WikiProjects, were interviewed and gave their advice for creating a more active project. One of their recommendations was to merge WikiProjects' talk discussion with the corresponding regional notice boards, since "We don't have enough people [on Wikipedia] to maintain multiple discussion fora". I see that WikiProject China has a China-related topics notice board (WP:ZHWNB), which is substantially less active than this page (WT:CHINA), but not inactive. Is there any reason why we should keep these pages separate? It is convenient to have one centralized location for posting notices and reading them, so I suggest that we merge ZHWNB to here. Shrigley (talk) 00:06, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

• Support - I actually suggested this previously, but no action was taken. There is no reason to have multiple discussion forums, and the China-related topics noticeboard is very infrequently updated and receives fewer visitors than this page. In addition, our article alerts page now basically fulfills the purpose for which the noticeboard was intended.--Danaman5 (talk) 23:48, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
• Support per both users above. GotR ^Talk 00:30, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
• Support. It makes sense to have an easy overview as it's in the same scope anyway. --Cold Season (talk) 00:50, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
• Support: There is no compelling or functional reason that I can see to have two separate pages when the scope of the articles is so similar.Ferox Seneca (talk) 03:41, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
• Support: Good idea. Do it. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 03:43, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
• Support Didn't even know WP:ZHWNB existed. Pol430 talk to me 12:03, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Category:History of China on novels

Hi, I need help categorized novels with this category, but having trouble identifying novels' settings from Category:Novels set in China . Hope that everyone around here can help. Please help identifying novels' settings.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 23:40, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

House of Li

Hi, can anyone creates the House of Li article, featuring history of the imperial family of the Tang Dynasty?--NeoBatfreak (talk) 23:51, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Nationality of Hong Kong people

Wikipedia currently lacks a consistent standard in describing the nationality of people from Hong Kong. This is a problem mostly for infoboxes (their entry under Nationality), but also extends (to a much lesser extent) to the opening line of the lead paragraph. There is no doubt that there is some perceived 'separateness' between Hong Kong and China, and that this has perhaps been exacerbated in recent years. Hong Kong's association, or perceived association with China, being "Chinese", or the PRC, has always been a point of emotive contention by both mainland Chinese and Hong Kongers. I do not want to engage in that debate here. I merely ask that we come to some kind of standard on how to describe the nationality of Hong Kong people. Currently, Donald Tsang's nationality is listed as "Hong Kong", Rita Fan's as "Chinese", and Michael Rowse's as "China (Hong Kong)". This inconsistency needs to be remedied. My proposal as follows:

• For lede sentences, we retain the current convention "[Name] is a Hong Kong [occupation]." This is the convention currently employed for other autonomous territories around the world such as Bermuda and Puerto Rico.
• For the "nationality" label of infoboxes, we write "China (Hong Kong)," with a pipe-link to Nationality_Law_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China#Hong_Kong for anyone interested in the nuances of the topic.

Nationality, as we know, is not the same as identity, nor is it related to the degree of autonomy of a given territory. Hong Kong residents are "Chinese nationals with the right of abode in Hong Kong." They are not "Hong Kong nationals" and therefore do not hold "Hong Kong nationality." But, recognizing the separation of the immigration systems and legal systems of HK and China, we must provide for a slightly more nuanced approach. Writing only 'China' or 'Chinese' would not do justice to the 'special' citizenship status of Hong Kong residents. Therefore "China (Hong Kong)" is a good compromise solution.

The alternative proposals would be Hong Kong, China, People's Republic of China, or something with Hong Kong in parentheses. If you would like to advance one of those, please state your arguments.

Again, I reiterate that this is not a place to soapbox about whether Hong Kong is 'Chinese' or not. It is merely to make everything consistent. Colipon+(Talk) 19:56, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Let's not make up our own definition of "nationality". Most residents of Hong Kong have Chinese citizenship, but some have foreign, such as British, citizenship. There isn't a special legal status of citizenship called "China (Hong Kong) citizenship", as far as I am aware.

I've seen some users argue that Hong Kong should be treated separately because there are extra restrictions on movement between Hong Kong and "mainland China". But India requires a special permit even for citizens to visit its northeastern states, and this does not change northeast Indians' citizenship status. American residents of Louisiana are tried under civil rather than common law, which has no bearing on their citizenship status. There are at least as many special legal and freedom-of-movement arrangements as there are states.

So skip the inevitable comparisons and bickering about how Hong Kong's status should be defined according to some Wikipedian's arbitrary criteria. How are Chinese citizens with Hong Kong residency treated under Chinese law? If their nationality is qualified in biographies published by the state, then we may be justified in doing something similar in our own biographies. Otherwise, "Hong Kong" should only appear in the biography of a someone with Hong Kong residency in the same way that "Suzhou" might appear for a person born in that city.

There are plenty of places in an article for long-live-the-queen types to bloviate about Hong Kong's special snowflake status, but the demands of a terse, accurate infobox preclude anything but "Chinese". On a related note, I would like to see the regional manual of style discourage the use of "Hong Kong" in the adjectival form, as in "Hong Kong person". The word sounds like a calque from the Chinese more than idiomatic English; forced into sentences to make a political point rather than to inform. Shrigley (talk) 22:45, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

To be fair, Chinese nationals with Hong Kong residency (an accurate description here) have the right to the HKSAR passport, which leads them to be treated externally different from Chinese nationals with mainland nationals, and at the same time do not have the same rights in the mainland as mainland residents do. So no, this is clearly not the same as Suzhou residency. We would not be labeling a British National (Overseas) as "British" in the nationality box. An accurate rendering of the legal status would be "Chinese (Hong Kong resident)" rather than "Chinese (Hong Kong)" but I believe this would be too long to fit.

Perhaps, then, stick with the short and simple "Chinese" in the infobox (listing British National (Overseas) if that be the case), but link "Chinese" to an article on the application of Chinese nationality law in Hong Kong, which due to the NPCSC interpretations involve special applications that differ even from the letter of the nationality law. To illustrate, any person of "Chinese descent" born in China is considered a Chinese national as the Nationality Law is applied in Hong Kong, but as it is applied in the mainland, a person born in China is only a Chinese national if at least one parent is a Chinese national. Further, the mainland application interprets voluntary acquisition of a foreign citizenship as renouncing Chinese nationality, while the Hong Kong application does not (requiring Chinese nationality to be lost only through an explicit declaration to the Hong Kong Government).

I do not see a problem with the term "Hong Kong people". This seems to be used in official sources in lieu of "Hongkonger" e.g. Chris Patten's departure speech "Hong Kong people are to run Hong Kong."--Jiang (talk) 00:57, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

So is everyone here fine with simply "Chinese" with a pipe-link to Hong Kong's 'right of abode' section in the "Nationality of the PRC" article? Colipon+(Talk) 16:31, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

FIrst, seem people having Hong Kong residency who dead before 1997-7-1 cannot be considered as Chinese? Second, some told me that, with a HK passport, I'd be better to write "Chinese (Hong Kong)" or sth similar in the nationality box when filling forms like visa application, which if I write only Chinese in the box then the application maybe failed due to incorrect information...