Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Archive 20

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Chinese rural boarding schools

The Rural Education Action Project released:

• "Malnutrition in China's Rural Boarding Schools: the Case of Primary Schools in Shaanxi Province." Modified November 2009. - http://www.webcitation.org/66Jzp4bPm
  • Article - http://www.webcitation.org/66JzcgIQ9

For the Chinese Wikipedia, the http://reap.stanford.edu/publications/malnutrition_in_chinas_rural_boarding_schools_the_case_of_primary_schools_in_shaanxi_province

More info:

• http://reap.stanford.edu/docs/boarding_schools/ - http://www.webcitation.org/66K0J6pgd
• Chinese: http://reap.stanford.edu/docs/boarding_school_cn - http://www.webcitation.org/66K0LIAXQ

PRC Government release on rural boarding schools: http://english.gov.cn/2006-06/12/content_307828.htm - http://www.webcitation.org/66K0Nx4In

WhisperToMe (talk) 19:13, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

What is China's copyright stance on photos of museum specimens?

I have pictures of specimens on display at the National Zoological Museum of China. I would like to use these images on Wikipedia under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the official stance of the museum is on this issue. Does anyone know? Better still could somebody contact the museum directly and ask on my behalf? Jason Quinn (talk) 04:39, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Nanjing Normal Univ class article

I noticed this Wikipedia:School and university projects/NNU Class Project/Winter 2012/Drafts/Tomb of Sultan Abdul Majid Hassan --- it's been requested to be moved to mainspace. 70.24.244.198 (talk) 03:52, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

I have resolved this. It is part of a university project. — Ganeshk (talk) 11:21, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Pinyin vs Wade-Giles at Taiji/T'ai chi

It has been proposed in that Taiji be renamed and moved to Taiji (concept) because T'ai chi ch'uan, “T'ai chi”, is arguably the WP:PRIME target for English speakers. Misspellings, pinyin and Wade-Giles renditions of a word all mean exactly the same thing, however, an "RfD" on certain redirects, seeks to avoid the WP:PRIME guideline by an admittedly fictional distinction: “Pinyin vs Wade-Giles is an unfortunate circumstance brought about by laymen, but the truth is that the (usage) ambiguity surrounds the Wade-Giles version(s), so sadly the line is actually between pinyin & WG, when there shouldn't even be one”.—Machine Elf ¹⁷³⁵ 21:33, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Geography of China

Geography of China (which may/should be renamed Geography of the PRC) need a frank clean up, rewriting, sourcing. Frankly, it should be one of the 6 best articles of about China/PRC. If some of you can rewrite it, or create a team work for it based on academics or books, that woulb be a appreciable and visible improvement. --Yug (talk) 17:45, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Suggested new articles about books

There are some books which have received book reviews in major publications. One could write articles about those books.

• Eldest Son: Zhou Enlai and the Making of Modern China, 1898-1976 (Far Eastern Economic Review wrote a book review on this)
• The Political Logic of Economic Reform in China (Foreign Affairs wrote a book review on this)
• Red Azalea: Life and Love in China (Review: Boyd Tonkin, New Statesman & Society. 6.275 (Oct. 22, 1993): p41 - Available at Academic ASAP) - Make sure you redirect "Red Azalea: life and love in China" to proper title

WhisperToMe (talk) 07:29, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Three Kingdoms edits by Kamek98

Kamek98 (talk · contribs) appears to have been changing 3K articles from knowledge gleaned from Dynasty Warriors 7 (as stated at Talk:Zhuge Dan Rebellion) This may require cleanup. This user also requested to be an administrator... so future cleanup may not be so easy.

65.92.180.188 (talk) 03:15, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

The user has requested an Editor Review, Wikipedia:Editor review/Kamek98 . 65.92.183.144 (talk) 03:42, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

User:Kamek98 and the Three Kingdoms era

Kamek98 (talk · contribs) has requested dispute resolution for three article names, you may be interested. Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Wang_Ling_Rebellion.2C_Guanqiu_Jian_and_Wen_Qin_Rebellion.2C_Zhuge_Dan_Rebellion

Can someone also check Zhong Hui's invasion of Shu ? It needs sourcing.

70.24.244.198 (talk) 01:26, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Kamek98 (talk · contribs) has been blanking pages concerning Three Kingdoms era pages. Ding Feng (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) -- 70.24.248.211 (talk) 03:42, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Move request at Talk:Qi (Shandong)

I've started a move request at Talk:Qi (Shandong), for moving the article to Qi (state). Your input is welcome there. Best regards. --Zanhe (talk) 05:02, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

People's Liberation Army Navy needs to be improved

Hello everyone, I'm Srikarkashyap.I'm interested in improving PLA articles. Recently, I've added the aircraft flown by PLAN in the lead section like the pages of US Navy, Indian Navy, French navy, etc... I would need more editors to further improve and expand the article.If you have any suggestions or complaints, please contact me. Regards Srikar Kashyap (talk) 16:24, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

China-Saudi Relations

I am university student who has been assigned the project of expanding the stub article about the relations between China and Saudi Arabai. I am currently focusing on China and Saudi Arabia's energy trade. If there are any sources, comments, advice, etc please post to the discussion section of my sandbox. Here is a link to my sandbox article: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bparker-goos/sandbox&action=edit&redlink=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bparker-goos (talk • contribs) 05:08, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Improving taijiquan lineage trees

Please assist by weighing in on the new proposed lineage trees. I'm in need of assistance with gathering information on the lineages and constructive feedback.

• Talk:T'ai chi ch'uan#Styles / Lineage_Table
• Talk:Chen-style t'ai_chi ch'uan#Improving lineage trees
• Talk:Yang-style t'ai chi ch'uan#Improving lineage trees
• Talk:Wu (Hao)-style t'ai chi ch'uan#Improving lineage trees
• Talk:Wu-style t'ai chi ch'uan#Improving lineage trees
• Talk:Sun-style t'ai chi ch'uan#Improving lineage trees

I will add the links to the trees for the remaining styles as I build them. Thanks. InferKNOX (talk) 19:16, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Request for comment

Hi everyone, you're invited to share your views with us at Talk:108 Stars of Destiny#Merger with individual character articles regarding a proposed merger of individual articles on Water Margin characters (more specifically, the Liangshan heroes, including Chao Gai but excluding Song Jiang) with another page 108 Stars of Destiny. Lonelydarksky (暗無天日) _{contact me (聯絡)} 06:16, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move: Itu Aba Island to Taiping Island

There is an ongoing RM discussion at Talk:Itu Aba Island#Requested move: Itu Aba Island → Taiping Island that users may wish to participate in. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 06:26, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Shanghai Metro

There seems to be some inconsistency in the naming of articles on stations (see Category:Shanghai Metro stations. Some are "xxx Station", some are "xxx Metro Station", some are "xxxx Station (Shanghai Metro)", and two have the rather silly form "xxxx Station Station" (presumably because they're Metro stations coincident with aboveground train stations). Is there an agreed naming convention? Colonies Chris (talk) 15:39, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain that there was a lengthy debate somewhere about the naming conventions of the stations. But it's great that you're bringing this up here. IMHO, "station stations" should all be moved to "X Station (Metro)" - to avoid the awkwardness. In the Shanghai Subway itself the Shanghai Railway Station Station is simply called "Shanghai Railway Station" in announcements, without the redundancy of the word "Station". Colipon+(Talk) 15:49, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

User:Kamek98

See Talk:Zhuge Dan Rebellion, a requested move that was not filed at WP:RM has appeared. 70.49.124.225 (talk) 04:45, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Ali (character)

Ali (character), the famous emoticon character, has an article in English that I discovered. The English isn't always the best, and we may have to rely on Chinese sources, due to a dearth in English ones WhisperToMe (talk) 17:14, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Proposed gift of pictures from China

China self-taken pictures

I am in possession of 1000's of real photos not digital that I would like to offer wikipedians to use on their china articles. However, I don't have a good scanner and don't have the money to buy one. Moreover, these pictures were taken on aps film (lower resolution than 35mm) and thus must be scanned by a very good scanner to allow for good quality. I would like to give these pictures to someone who has access to a good scanner but sending them in the mail would also be expensive. So is there anyone in Minnesota twin cities area that I could drive to and personally give them to so they could upload them to the pictures database of China? There must be other people who have faced this kind of situation. Plus I'm not a techno expert so I'd like someone who is more versed in digital scanning and photoshopping to help. Whoisgalt (talk) 15:42, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

When were these photos taken? Colipon+(Talk) 16:08, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

In the dark and mid-evil time of 1999-2000 and 2002:-) 1999-00 = Zhaoqing (have the China Pabst Blue Ribbon factory interiors!!, Guangdong province, Haikou and Sanya of Hainan island, Hong Kong, Macau, Kunming, Xian, Lijiang, Yangshuo, Beijing, and 2002 (shanghai area, dalian, Sichuan, Qingdao, Shenyang, South Korea, Dandong China - City bordering north korea and various other tidbits... I of course wouldn't be handing you over all of them.. I would go through pick the good ones and with good focus and lighting. I'm guessing the total based on what I've already been looking through would be 100-300 pictures that I could offer, good quality ones...I've got a lot of junk!!! For more than a few I don't remember where exactly I took them or sometimes even what exactly they are of but in this case they could just be general interest pictures for beautifying and the like.Whoisgalt (talk) 16:30, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure how things work in your part of the world, but do public libraries in Minnesota provide scanners for public use? Are there any universities with open public access? -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 16:35, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Good Idea...I just called my countys libary helpline and they don't have public scanners. College and universities have scanners but technically you have to be a student to use them :-( So I'm not left with many options. Ups/kinkos stores offer scanning but for a fee.Whoisgalt (talk) 17:51, 14 May 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoisgalt (talk • contribs) 17:05, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Proposed entry: Chinese treaty ports

I think a special area for specifically chinese treaty ports will be very useful. Yes, this port system occurred in other asian countries but no other countries were affected by the trend as much as china. There already exists an article "treaty ports" but I think china deserves its own. It plays such a large role in its history and even its modern consciousness of feeling bullied or hedged in by the West. And where do you think the idea of SEZ special economic zones came from, from the international settlements/treaty ports memories/histories (i actually did my college thesis on this topic arguing that the SEZ's were a historical continuation of the treaty ports, but self imposed instead of from the outside). Even though the ports/settlements caused much pain and discrimination, they did cause large amounts of trade (and exploitation) and stimulated the economy and were testing zones for new policies and economics; just like the special economic zones are. I have particular interest in the Shenzhen special economic zone and canton treaty port/settlement and this topic and the other ports are only very very lightly covered on wiki, perhaps 3 paragraphs for something that played a monumental role in the modern and qing era history of China. And this is not to mention the opium wars..They are covered very widely but how about how they are connected to the opening of the treaty ports...Sorry for going on such a tirade but this is a very important subject that is covered very little if at all on wiki china.

Now to SEZ's...Yes there are these zones all over the world and there is a very short article on international ones but what about the Chinese ones. The article exists but is very very short considering the importance of the topic. They might not be playing the same main role they played in the late 7o's and 80's but their impact is vast. What other countries SEZ's served to help to change a country from communism to capitalism? Which other ones played such big roles in teaching their governments how to reform and open up their economies? Shenzhen (with HK), Zhuhai (with Macau) and Xiamen (with taiwan) I think are the most important ones, I know there is one in Hainan but that was a total failure, anyone going to the island and seeing all the empty closed buildings will see that;why did it fail, because it wasn't connected to an outside source of overseas/foreign chinese like the other ones were. The vast majority of the original investments in SEZ's were from overseas chinese HK,Taiwan...This topic is not to be found. Now is it a coincidence that these special economic zones of the modern era are the exact same ones that were treaty ports in the 1800's? I don't think so, and that topic needs to be explored and linked together. I will take on some of that responsibility of improving the SEZ's but I will need a lot of help and support two start the other article about chinese treaty ports.

Thanks for putting up with my longwindedness.Whoisgalt (talk) 15:12, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Proposed Entry: local Chinese specialties

I have already created the [[ ]] to make this an entry but I haven't started it. There is already a "local specialties" articles but guys, what country has every city, country, region known for special products,foods,alcohol,arts and crafts,products, historical oddities and the such. China isn't a mass market in terms of most products and ideas yet like Western countries are and thus still has many small local characteristics that are very noteworthy and give a good window into the culture and flavor of the country. And in the coming years much of this will be lost. Anyone want to help on this article? I am interested in Zhaoqing city and county and possibly guangdong versions of it. Maybe people could each pick a county,city,region their familiar with and find all the specialties for it and descriptions/history/modern economics of it. I think we would need a lot of native chinese help on this but it could be done. I was thinking of categorizing it by region (for ones that cross provincial borders) and then by province then county -city so on. What does everyone think of this idea?Whoisgalt (talk) 14:36, 14 May 2012 (UTC)Whoisgalt (talk) 13:49, 14 May 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoisgalt (talk • contribs) 13:18, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Proposed Entry: Gender Inequality in China

Hello Everybody! In order to improve Wikiedia’s coverage of articles relating to China and to maintain the goals of this Wikiproject I plan to create a new entry on Gender inequality in China. This entry would be an appropriate addition to the WP: China because it would provide comprehensive information on a significant problem in China that is currently not presented on Wikipedia. The current entry on Gender Inequality has a subsection titled “Gender Inequality Across the Globe” but it only provides a brief summary of international gender inequality issues. There is no reference to the gender disparities that plague China. I propose to add an overview of gender inequality in China under the “Gender Inequality Across the Globe” subsection and link it to my new Wikipedia entry which will cover legislation, cultural/societal norms, and implications in regards to family structure, education, healthcare, and employment. I hope that other contributors will continue my contributions by adding subsections including but not limited to, the history of gender inequality and the impacts of gender inequality on sexuality. If you have any suggestions for the execution of my proposed entry, please let me know. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thank you. Nqogu (talk) 17:19, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

There's a good article on a related topic, Globalization and women in China, that was the subject of an educational assignment a few years ago. Shrigley (talk) 22:25, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback. Since the Globalization and women in China entry is well written and up to Wikipedia standards, I have shifted the direction of my assignment to address an underdeveloped article on a similar topic. Again, thank you so much for your feedback. It was greatly appreciated. Nqogu (talk) 20:03, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

== Proposed Entry: local Chinese specialties == I have already created the [[ ]] to make this an entry but I haven't started it. There is already a "local specialties" articles but guys, what country has every city, country, region known for special products,foods,alcohol,arts and crafts, historical oddities and the such. China isn't a mass market in terms of most products yet like Western countries are and thus still has many small local characteristics that are very noteworthy and give a good window into the culture and flavor of the country. Anyone want to help on this article? I am interested in Zhaoqing city and county and possibly guangdong versions of it maybe people could each pick a county,city,region their familiar with and find all the specialties for it and descriptions/history/modern economics of it. I think we would need a lot of native chinese help on this but it could be done. I was thinking of categorizing it by region (for ones that cross provincial borders) and then by province then county -city so on. What does everyone think of this idea? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoisgalt (talk • contribs) 13:15, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Proposed entry: Network of Repatriates from China

I would appreciate at least a translated version of this article from the japanese Wikipedia version: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/中国帰還者連絡会.190.191.50.114 (talk) 07:27, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Have you thought about the Japanese wikiproject? WP:JAPAN, where you'll more likely find Japanese-literate users? 70.24.251.208 (talk) 23:51, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Proposed entry: Chinese Basketball culture

Basketball (particularly NBA) is very very big in China especially in recent years with Yao Ming and Jeremy Lin being so big. I think the topic is really fascinating from an anthropological standpoint and also as a modern cultural phenomenon. Any basketball fans out there interested? I would be interested in the anthro part of it and cultural but not so much the basketball. Any takers :-) ? Whoisgalt (talk) 07:37, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Proposal: "recruiting" our old Chinese subject professors and also think tank experts to contribute to the China project

I'm on a roll!

I think the China project is a very worthwhile project and due a lot of attention. China is rising in the world of nations. I have several professors that might remember me from my college days and some that don't but who would be softer if they knew I was one of their students. Why not try to contact them and see if they would like to help out with contributions or by reviewing articles for accuracy and fullness. Or they could give suggestions and offer good sources. Whats more, they could encourage there hundreds of students to use it in conjunction with their studies and papers. To get ideas and to give ideas. I remember one professor whose specialty was "colonial policing in the international settlement of Shanghai" Circa early 1900's. She probably even wrote a book or periodical about it. Where else would such a specialized expert be available? And professors are very used to the citing and article writing process. This could also spread to other parts of Wiki. And why not include undergrads and grads who are writing or who have written specialized papers or thesis (what's the plural for thesis!!!) on China? All the information would be fresh in their minds and they would have all their sources and cites from their papers. And what about think tankers, they spend their whole careers learning about relevant topics. We might not know them personally but I think a few could be convinced to help out with a nice email or a call from a friendly and warm wikipedian. Please let me know what others think. Am I stepping over some unspoken line for wanting to do this? How can kindly inquiring to see if people might help out and from ones that we know or whose intelligence we respect be a bad thing? I've already tried to recruit an old friend who I lost contact with who knows a lot about China to come and help me out on certain topics. If everyone did this the China project and wikipedia would be much more content rich and well groomed. Whoisgalt (talk) 08:13, 15 May 2012 (UTC)Whoisgalt (talk) 09:20, 15 May 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoisgalt (talk • contribs) Whoisgalt (talk) 09:20, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

This is a good idea. Most China-related articles, even very notable ones, are in desperate need of some expert attention. Colipon+(Talk) 13:55, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Okay then thanks for the ding..Hopefully more will ding in. I will try to contact 2 or 3 of the professors that I actually remember and lets hope they are still there. They always pretend to remember you to make you feel good so I'll just go with it!Whoisgalt (talk) 14:06, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

My limited experience is that, while many people with expertise in these fields appreciates the value of Wikipedia and the need for expert editors, most are daunted by the learning curve involved, or deterred by the pettiness and banality of debates. Few people with established expertise like the idea of being placed on equal footing with high school students. I would encourage you to do this, but suggest that the main challenge will simply be convincing people that editing Wikipedia is not as difficult or complicated as it may at first appear.Homunculus (duihua) 14:48, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

It's not that hard I don't think. I think we could let them just write the content and deal less with the nitty gritty. Let them specialize in what they do best, that's how we developed from the cavemen :-) They take a topic write about it and then drop them like bombs for others to work out. That would then give them incentive to contribute. Sure it might get changed some but if it is so in-depth and detailed a person would have to go out and read a handful of books just to have the knowledge to change it. I just started 5 days ago and I just created my first page already, albeit a very rudimentary one due to my lack of skills and shortage of information on the subject. How did I do this? I just opened two of the same page and looked at how the mark-ups matched up with the final result. If I were to go through and do this seriously I think I could reach an intermediate level within a week or so. Check it out if your interested China Pabst Blue RibbonWhoisgalt (talk) 15:09, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

New twist on getting professors involved

Could we make a list of not so covered very well topics and then distribute that to the professors and let them pick what they are interested in. Or ask what their strengths and interests are and let them choose themselves or we pick the ones of their strengths that aren't covered enough. We could do active professors and retired (the retired ones may still be interested in the research but no longer professionally doing it yet still want to contribute to the learning field) They could write summaries on those topics and gave general citations (per individual little event might be too much to ask)and then each person could pre-edit them before posting on wiki. Or post the original and let wikipedians take over. Or they could give us articles/periodicals that they have published previously on specific topics(not books,too tedious) and we could go through and cherry pick the good stuff that we need and ferret out the thesis bias if we must. I've got three chinese subject professors that fit the bill and others who studied about china in college might have just as many. This would solve the problem of professors having to deal with the nitty gritty of wiki but still allow them to contribute to human knowledge (which is what they are already doing for their career).Whoisgalt (talk) 11:27, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Take Pictures of Shanghai

I reckon that there may be a relatively large contingent of Wikipedians living in Shanghai... if so, I think it would be beneficial to go around the neighbourhood and take some pictures, particularly of the buildings listed at this template:

I don't imagine this to be all too difficult... even if you snap a picture with an iPhone just walking around town or while commuting to work. Same can be done with subway stations etc. Colipon+(Talk) 02:28, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't the Great Firewall of China block Wikipedia? -- 70.24.251.208 (talk) 05:03, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

No, I've accessed WP from China many times. It's only the sensitive articles like Tiananmen, Falun Gong etc. that get blocked. Colipon+(Talk) 05:23, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

• It only blocks sensitive pages when accessed, then the computer IP is immediately blocked for a while. So don't bother even trying '6-4'. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 10:52, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

• From what I know, the temporary block kicks in when the GFW detects undesirable wikilinks. Some time ago an editor living in the PRC told me that my user talkpage was blocked in the PRC (lol, must be very counter-revolutionary material), and it turns out that replacing a link to "14th Dalai L*m*" with just plain text solved the problem. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 12:19, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

A surprising amount of 'counter-revolutionary' material makes it through though, especially in a non-Chinese-language. The New York Times' articles on Chinese political intrigue have always been accessible, as have been WP articles on things like the Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward, and even Mao, none of which bode well with the 'official narrative' of the PRC. Also the censors are sometimes extremely clueless, blocking and unblocking sites erratically and for no apparent reason. I digress. If anyone can take some pictures of Shanghai, it would be helpful. Colipon+(Talk) 13:17, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

RfC: Use of Simplified Chinese on Chinese characters

There is an ongoing RfC at Talk:Chinese characters#RfC: Simplified Chinese within the infobox image regarding whether or not Simplified Chinese should be removed from the infobox image on that article. It would be helpful if a third opinion can be provided to assist in forming consensus. If you would like to participate in the discussion, please feel free to do so. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 10:00, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Politburo membership in politicians' infobox

User BOY (talk · contribs) has been going around town adding Politburo membership to the infoboxes of a series of articles dealing with Politburo members. While I don't feel terribly passionate about this issue, I do not think membership in any sort of council is necessary in the infobox as a separate item - and in general we should restrict the number of official roles in the infoboxes to avoid clutter. In addition, I also do not believe being an NPC deputy should be segregated to its own section in these politicians' infoboxes. If there are no objections to this I will begin reverting these changes. But I wanted to start the discussion to see what other user's views are on which positions are 'infobox' material and which are not. Colipon+(Talk) 19:14, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Seems significant to me... Can you give an example or two? Is it redundant information? Duration (years) of membership? Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 13:06, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Template:Chinese cuisine

Due to contentious editing at Template:American cuisine, this has resulted in the deletion of the image at Chinese cuisine template. You may wish to discuss whether to keep the image or not, but someone should watch the template to see if further contentious editing at American cuisine results in spillover to your template. 70.24.251.208 (talk) 11:31, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Requested move: Flag of the People's Republic of China → Flag of China

An user has proposed the move at Talk:Flag of the People's Republic of China#Requested move. --Cold Season (talk) 15:36, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Template:User Guangzhou

{{User Guangzhou}} has been nominated for deletion. 70.24.251.208 (talk) 05:16, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Is this Qincheng Prison?

I searched for "北京昌平区秦城一号" in Google Maps and got this

Is this Qincheng Prison? WhisperToMe (talk) 17:28, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

looks like it is Pol430 talk to me 20:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the find! WhisperToMe (talk) 20:40, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Reports

I'm looking for aviation accident reports at http://www.caac.gov.cn/ but the site's only in Chinese. Are they hosted on here? Where do I find them? WhisperToMe (talk) 04:07, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

I found a link that translates to 'aviation safety reports' but I get an error when I click on it -- look. In fact I got a whole load of errors and 'cannot find the webpage' results while clicking on various links. Their english version of the site is 'under construction'. Pol430 talk to me 20:42, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into it! Have you tried a Google site search looking for documents with the Chinese words for "accident report" in them? Perhaps that could uncover some reports - Also should I contact the CAAC and inform them that the site has these issues? WhisperToMe (talk) 20:56, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll look into that for you. I have to go offline now for a bit will doit when I get back :) Pol430 talk to me 21:00, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Alrighty :) WhisperToMe (talk) 23:16, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything obvious that linked to CAAC reports or any other government site. I did find this which is the China Civil Aviation Information Network. Are you looking for a specific report or just a general source for aviation accident reports in China? Pol430 talk to me 11:48, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Presumably you are aware of http://avherald.com/ ? Pol430 talk to me 11:57, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

I have heard of Aviation Herald, but I haven't considered checking it for specific reports. I'll check if there are reports on it. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:10, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm looking for both - A source of accident reports and specific reports of civil aviation accidents since 1990. I am checking to see if the following incidents have had reports published online, in English, Chinese, or both:

• 2010:Henan Airlines Flight 8387 (B-3130) (report may not yet be out)
• 2004:China Eastern Airlines Flight 5210 (B-3072)
• 2002:China Northern Airlines Flight 6136 (B-1238)
• 2000:Wuhan Airlines Flight 343 (B-3479)
• 1999:China Southwest Airlines Flight 4509 (B-2622)
• 1997:China Southern Airlines Flight 3456 (B-2925)
• 1994:China Northwest Airlines Flight 2303 (B-2610)
• 1993:China Northwest Airlines Flight 2119 (B-2716)
• 1993:China Northern Airlines Flight 6901 (B-2141)
• 1993:China Eastern Airlines Flight 5398 (B-2103)
• 1992:China General Aviation Flight 7552 (B-2755)
• 1992:China Southern Airlines Flight 3943 (B-2523)
• 1990:Guangzhou Baiyun aircraft collision (Xiamen Airlines Flight 8301: B-2510, China Southern Airlines Flight 2812: B-2812)

There is also CAAC Flight 3303 (1982, B-266), but I have doubts it will be online. -- Chinese Wikipedia give some reasonable coverage Pol430 talk to me 16:13, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

WhisperToMe (talk) 15:09, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Got it! I tried searching the aircraft tail numbers on a google advanced search and only asked for results in simplified Chinese. If you take B-2523 as an example, I found this result (which I have run through Google translate) from Civil Aviation Maintenance Association of China. If you need help deciphering the Chinglish let me know. Pol430 talk to me 15:41, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Disregard, just realized the dates are wrong. Pol430 talk to me 15:47, 9 June 2012 (UTC) No it isn't. Check half way down the page. Pol430 talk to me 15:48, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for finding that! I do not believe it is the final report (a final report would be written by the CAAC) but it is helpful commentary on several accidents. It seems to quote from a final report, so I made a post to Talk:China Southern Airlines Flight 3943, but whatever final report is there doesn't seem to be online. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:10, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I tried searching the CAAC site for published reports in various ways: Chinese terms for 'accident/incident', 'reports' and 'aircraft reports' and also tried tail numbers, but got almost no results. I don't think the reports are published on their website. Even if the link '航空安全举报' worked, I don't think it relates to individual aircraft incidents. Pol430 talk to me 17:46, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Ah, ok. Perhaps I can e-mail the CAAC sometime and ask how to view their reports. Anyway, thank you very much for your help and efforts! :) WhisperToMe (talk) 18:03, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. Yes, it can't hurt to send them an email. I've added a couple of chinese sources to CAAC flight 3303 and I'll expand the article slightly when I've got time to translate them. Drop me a line if I can be of any more help. Pol430 talk to me 19:27, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Report on the use of self-published sources

The first version of a report on the use of self-published sources is now available, in Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipedia reliability. Some of the self-published sources listed in the report pertain to this project.

Suggestions on the report itself (a discussion has started here), and help in remedying the use of the self-published items that relate to this project will be appreciated. History2007 (talk) 06:18, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Hidden character stone

I'm not sure if this is simply a hoax or the equivalent of an April Fool's joke. Any advice on this would be welcome. Dougweller (talk) 08:19, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Astronaut ranks and positions

Can someone add Chinese positions to Astronaut ranks and positions ? 70.24.251.208 (talk) 06:47, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Perth requested-move notification

A requested move survey was started at Talk:Perth_(disambiguation)#Requested_move, which proposes to move:

• Perth → Perth, Western Australia
• Perth, Scotland → Perth, Perthshire
• Perth (disambiguation) → Perth

Background: There was a previous requested-move survey which ran from late May to mid June. There was a great deal of controversy surrounding the closure and subsequent events, which involved a number of reverts and re-reverts which are the subject of an ongoing arbitration case. There was a move review process, which was closed with a finding that the original requested-move closure was endorsed; however, the move review process is relatively new and untried. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 03:39, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Requested move: Decapitalize the word "war" in non-proper noun titles

Concerning the following articles: Sino-Xiongnu War, Gojoseon–Han War, Goguryeo–Wei War, Goguryeo–Sui War, Goguryeo–Tang War, Silla–Tang War, Ming–Kotte War, Ming–Hồ War, Mongol–Jin War, Gaya–Silla War, Goguryeo–Yamato War, Goryeo–Khitan War.

The move request is at [1].--Cold Season (talk) 02:11, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

RfC on country names

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Macclesfield Bank#RfC. CMD (talk) 00:19, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Odd naming convention for emperors

Why are the names of the emperors of Ming and Qing dynasties listed with the title "emperor" coming after the name? Perhaps I misunderstood it, but if the title is in English (emperor, king, etc.), you should follow the English convention, only if the title is not originally English (Khan, Huang, Di, etc.) do you follow the convention whatever the original language uses. Therefore you should have Emperor Qianlong, Kublai Khan, Qin Shi Huang, etc. But if you look at some of these pages, you'd find that in the same page you'd have contradictory naming conventions, for example, in Emperor Qianlong, you'd find Qianlong Emperor, Empress Xiaoxianchun, Prince Bao. Why?

If this has been discussed before, please direct me the relevant place. I'm not asking for anything to be changed, just curious about the rationale. Hzh (talk) 23:35, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Qianlong is an era name, not a temple/posthumous/personal name. The order of "[era name]" + "Emperor" is meant to avoid the implication, because this way Qianlong can be read descriptively. Some historians such have Pamela Kyle Crossley have instead called the Qing emperors by their personal names on a regular basis (e.g. Qianlong would be Hongli) specifically because of that distinction, but use of personal names runs afoul of the naming taboo and is highly anachronistic.

Emperor Wu of Han is "Han Wudi" in Chinese; the Qianlong Emperor is "Qianlong Huangdi"/"Qianlong Di" - see the difference? The Ming and Qing emperors are posthumously referred to not by their unwieldy posthumous names, or their taboo personal names, but by the name of the era they reigned over. We would be calling Qianlong "Emperor Chun" if we followed the conventions used by previous dynasties.--Jiang (talk) 00:38, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. However, it doesn't really explain why the distinction needed to be made in English since Qianlong is used in the article (also often in Chinese) to refer to the person, therefore Emperor Qianlong would seem perfectly fine. The page could easily use Qianlong Di or simply Qianlong instead of Qianlong Emperor; using the word "Emperor" after the name just sounds odd because that is not the way English is used normally (and therefore something requiring explanation). It seems to require an article "the" as in "The Qianlong emperor" (which is used in the text) to be grammatically correct. It matters not a lot I suppose, just me wondering aloud (and to reiterate, I'm not asking for anything to be changed). Thanks again. Hzh (talk) 02:52, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

So are you suggesting that we should not translate titles/terms? (such as King Louis of France would be Roi Louis instead or the Duke of Orleans would be Duc d'Orleans. ) I note that the monarch of a country is frequently referred to as the country's name. So using the era's name in such a manner is analogous. 70.24.251.208 (talk) 04:25, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

It is quite common in English to use the title in the original language, like Kaiser Wilhelm II, Kublai Khan, Tsar Alexander II, so there is nothing unusual about that. You can however argue that these titles (also titles like Shah, Sultan) have become standard English terms, whereas Di/Huangdi is not. English have always used King Louis XIV (or more commonly simply Louis XIV or the Sun King), however that is not the case for Qianlong (seems more common to hear Emperor Qianlong or simply Qianlong than Qianlong Emperor). Qianlong Emperor would sound to be as odd to me as Louis XIV King because Qianlong is in fact commonly used to refer to the person. Anyway, I am not suggesting any particular term should be used, just noting that oddity and I'm happy to leave things as they are. Hzh (talk) 10:08, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

While I'm fine with Qianlong Emperor or Emperor Qianlong, I find that naming of empresses is quite chaotic. For example, Empress Lü Zhi, who is probably most commonly referred to as Empress Dowager Lü, and sometimes Lü Zhi, but rarely Empress Lü Zhi. Also, the naming of early Chinese kings and other rulers is quite arbitrary. For example, there are King An of Zhou and King An of Han. By looking at the English titles, you'd never realize that the former An is the king's posthumous title, while the latter An is the king's personal name (in Chinese, the former is called Zhou An Wang, the latter Han Wang An, differentiated by word order). I think it's time we updated the naming convention to improve the situation. --Zanhe (talk) 18:25, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

D.E. Mungello, in the preface to one of his books, explains this convention as follows: The term "Kanxi" is a reign title rather than a name, and this explains why this book refers to the "Kangxi Emperor" rather than to "Emperor Kangxi". For similar reasons, we would refer to Franklin Delano Roosevelt as the "New Deal President" rather than "President New Deal". Then he continues to explain what the actual names of the Kangxi Emperor were. (The Great Encounter of China and the West, 1500-1800, page xiv). -- Vmenkov (talk) 14:47, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

The only problem with that rationale is that you don't call President Roosevelt as simply "New Deal", whereas people do called Emperor Kangxi as simply "Kangxi", which is in fact done in his wiki article (as well as in a great number of publications) and in Chinese as well. Hzh (talk) 19:50, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Editors who use reign titles as if they were personal names are writing incorrectly, possibly because they are not aware that reign titles are not personal names. If you wanted to do a thorough review of Wikipedia articles to correct for the use of reign titles on Wikipedia, I would support you.Ferox Seneca (talk) 16:09, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

It's not just wiki editors, since most people do that, in Chinese or English publications. You'd have to try to change how the world use the word. Kangxi is commonly used because people use it to refer to the person, telling them that they are wrong is like saying that you shouldn't call any vacuum cleaner "hoover" because that is a specific brand name, really rather absurd. You can insist on using Kangxi Emperor if you want, but personally I wouldn't tell other people that they are wrong in using Kangxi for the person. We are no longer in Qing China, they won't chop your head off for misusing the Emperor's title. (Just out of curiosity, how do people in the Qing Dynasty or the early Republic call the emperor? My suspicion is that it's been used like that for a very long time, but I don't really know for how long, but at least 50 years I think.) Hzh (talk) 19:33, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Consider "Kangxi" the short form of "Kangxi Emperor", so that is would be more permissible than "Emperor Kangxi" which by word composition cannot be the short form for "Kangxi Emperor". There's no ambiguity in "Emperor Kangxi", but we use "Kangxi Emperor" to be more accurate and proper. To answer Hzh, the situation is somewhat analogous to the Emperor of Japan. People would refer to the reigning emperor as "His Majesty" or "Ten Thousand Years", but never by the existing era name, like how awe would not refer to the current Japanese emperor as "Heisei". The Kangxi Emperor would not be called "Kangxi Emperor" until after his death.--Jiang (talk) 20:35, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

That wasn't what I was asking, sorry that I didn't make it clearer. I was asking if people during the Qing dynasty and the early Republic era refer to past Qing or Ming emperors by their era name (say, a person in late Qing dynasty or the early Republic era talking about Kangxi). If this is a something that's been done for a long time, then there is no reason to insist that Kangxi is an era name alone, but that it can be taken as his name through common usage. If that is true, then here isn't be any real problem with using Emperor Kangxi, and the distinction that is being made here in English with Kangxi Emperor is just unnecessary pedantry. Hzh (talk) 22:20, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Regarding Hzh's question above: I have not read much about the Qing, but my impression is that at least the Ming Emperors have been usually referred to posthumously by their Temple name. For example, the personal name of the founder of the Ming Dynasty, the Hongwu Emperor, is Zhu Yuanzhang; however, referring him as the personal name sounds definitely as a very modern ("republican") thing to me. Instead, the Ming (and, I assume, Qing) historians of later generation would refer to him by the temple name, (Ming) Taizu (明太祖), which literally means "the Great Ancestor (of the Ming)". I believe that this usage is still quite common in Chinese-language literature (try a Google search on 明太祖). I understand, that for some of the pre-Ming dyansties (e.g. the Song Dynasty) emperors, using the temple name is the standard convention in English-language scholarship as well, and therefore on Wikipedia; see e.g. Emperor Huizong of Song. -- Vmenkov (talk) 00:07, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Usage varies for the Ming dynasty, while the first emperior is usually called Taizu of Ming, after his temple name, most emperors are often referred to by era names as well - for example, "the Hongwu Emperor" and "Taizu of Ming" are just about equally recognisable, while his son is probably slightly better known as "the Yongle Emperor" than "Chengzu of Ming"; the last emperor is almost universally referred to as the Chongzhen Emperor (after his era name).

Qing emperors who ruled China proper ("within the Pass") are almost exclusively referred to by their era name, but not those who reigned before the conquest. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:50, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Problem article - possible fraud?

I just came across an article on jade which is highly dubuious - Ancient Old Jade. Many of the jade pieces look like obvious fake to me, i.e. styles not old enough, or forms unknown in ancient period, or just plain bad. For example, I don't think I have ever seen ancient figures of the terracotta army made of jade, so that looks like a modern invention to me. I don't really know much about jade (I'm not even sure that the category "Ancient Old Jade" exists, it is a very odd term), so I can't pronounce anything definite about them apart from that they look highly suspicious, can someone who know more about this do something about this page? It is possible that this page may have been created for fraudulent purpose, so a deletion may be necessary if a complete rewrite is not possible. Hzh (talk) 10:23, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I am considering adding a hatnote to warn about the content of this article before the issue is resolved, but not sure of the right way to do it. There are too many fake items in there (perhaps all of them) and it gives me serious concerns. Hzh (talk) 11:05, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I added a warning to the page although I'm not sure if this is the right way of doing it. A bit more information - it seems that the pieces used for illustration in these pages are sold at auction. For example the piece at this site (which I traced from the uploader's own website here ), the same piece is used to illustrate the article here (the last one in the section). There is a very strong suspicion that wiki is being used to commit crime here, the uploader of the picture and editor of the page is using wiki to give a false impression of authenticity and then sell the items shown in wiki pages. Hzh (talk) 21:01, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

There are specific templates... like {{hoax}} or {{disputed}} or {{verifiability}} -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 08:21, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Someone has sent it for deletion via AFD -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 08:20, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

quote

Ancient Old Jade is a jade terminology of jade category to be distinguished from Modern Jade. This jade terminology is well-known by jade dealers and collectors. In Chinese they say 高古玉 (spelling as: Gao Gu Yu) or just 古玉 (spelling as: Gu Yu) as Ancient Old Jade in English.

Basic Concepts of Authenticity Examinations against Fakes of Ancient Old Jades

(1) Scratch Test: Jades are firm enough to resist from Scratch Test by human finger nails.

(2) Semi-Translucence Test: Jades are semi-translucent under the light of portable flashlight.

(3) Sound Test: The sound of a jade knocked slightly on another jade is just like that from a musical instrument and very clear. It’s not such heavy as those sounds knocked by stones or plastic goods.

(4) Soakage Color Test: The soakage color formed in the earth for thousands of years are natural. People are used to put Ancient Old Jades in pure clear warm water for at least one day and one night to see if the soakage color is still remained the same as usual before to judge if it’s dyed manually. From long-term basis, the manually dyed Fakes will fade their false soakage colors into one another gradually.

(5) Age Test: The Ancient Old Jades must have the appearance and totems of Imperial Royal His Majesty Dignity of an Emperor or a King. This is quite different from the modern jade carved work of art designed just for an Art purpose only.

(6) Carvings of Holes Test: The holes of Ancient Old Jades were not straight penetrated from one side. They were penetrated from two sides and formed a curve path gap between two holes from each side.

(7) Carvings of Lines Test: The inclined feminine lines of Ancient Old Jades were not carved by machine tools that make lines straight forward with two sides of line wall straight upward vertically. They were carved one side of line wall straight upward vertically, while another side of line wall plane inclined by ancient bronze jade carving wheels.

(8) Totems test: The Ancient Old Jade must have Jade Carving Totems used in that dynasty to be presented to the Imperial Royal His Majesty Dignity of an Emperor or a King.

(9) Smooth Carvings Test: The Ancient Old Jades were carved by imperial skillful hand-made jade carving masters and must be carved simply, clearly and smoothly upon specially selected solid fine jades. This kind of carving is not existed in modern world by machine tools and art carving artists or sculptors.

(10) Weight (Density) Test: A true experienced jade collector or dealer can easily tell the difference between a Jade and other stones by just holding a Jade in hand to feel its heavy weight of high density.

(11) Surface Test: The surface of a jade is very smooth and quite different from other stones. A true experienced jade collector or dealer can easily tell the difference between a Jade and other stones by just touching the surface of a jade carved work of art gently with his fingers.

(12) Color Test: A true experienced jade collector or dealer can easily tell the difference between a Jade and other stones by just examining its natural beautiful color appeared in front of human eyes.

unquote

The above contents have been added in the article of Ancient Old Jade to avoid unnecessary mistakes and misunderstandings of readers outside of jade world. -- Orionandhsu (talk) 09:04, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

It's just an article written on a subject of Ancient Old Jade and has nothing to do with Possible Fraud guessed by somebody. If someone has different opinions about the contents of this article, he should then join to edit the contents to improve this subject. It's really not good to delete the whole subject of Ancient Old Jade for interfering the readers' rights to understand this subject. -- Orionandhsu (talk) 14:31, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Orionandhsu (talk · contribs) is under investigation for spamming and sockpuppeting, see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Orionwebmuseum -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 05:54, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

All three Orionxxx users have been blocked. -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 03:14, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

A genuine, well researched article about this subject with appropriate illustrations would be welcome. Deletion was based on the phoney promotional nature of this particular article, which was little more than an advertisement, and for fake, not even close, stuff. User:Fred Bauder Talk 12:36, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Help with chinese webpages and chinese astronomy at Corona Australis

Hi all, I am improving the Corona Australis article and need some more information about this website, which google translate can't read - i.e. what institution it is and other information that I can add into its reference template. Also, is it a reliable source?

While I am here, I am trying to look around to embellish the chinese folklore/astronomy section of the article (chinese characters for chinese words would be greatly appreciated). I have found this and referenced a bit of it - some others turn up on google books too. Anyone more familiar with folklore would be most welcome to help out....cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:52, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

RfC on Vietnamese diacritics

RfC: Should the spelling of Vietnamese names follow the general usage of English-language reliable sources? Examples: Ngo Dinh Diem, Ho Chi Minh, and Saigon, or Ngô Đình Diệm, Hồ Chí Minh, and Sài Gòn. The RfC is here. Kauffner (talk) 12:31, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Note: this is a misleading description of the RfC; Kauffner is proposing that all diacritics be removed unless Brittanica or other encyclopedias use them; but in this case, Brittanica has chosen to not use VN diacritics, so the result is, all VN diacritics will be removed as a matter of course, regardless of usage in other sources. The examples he gives above of Saigon/Ho Chi Minh are misleading, as no proposals have been mooted to move those words which have very common usage in english. This move would affect much less common names, that do not have wide use in english.--KarlB (talk) 17:37, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Chinese Postal Map Romanisation in the lede of location articles

I'm not sure what to think about this sort of addition. Examples:

• Changjiang Li Autonomous County
• Sanshui District
• Chenghai District

Should it be in the lede? History section instead? Infobox? Not at all? I guess it's more information, so that's good. But is it useful? Plus, the "Chinese Postal Map Romanisation" seems so long, and rather dominates the first sentence of the lede. I'm not that sure it serves most of the visitors most of the time.

I can see it being challenged later on, so best see what folks think before zillions are added. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:13, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Abbreviate it to "CPMR" but keep the link? The name is quite long and potentially distracting. The {{bo}} template abbreviates Zangwen Pinyin to "ZWPY". -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 08:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with including the Chinese Postal Map Romanisation spellings in the lede. They may not be very useful, but the inclusion of them does no harm - it only gives readers an extra piece of information which they'll skip, as they're naturally able to, if they aren't interested. I don't think the mere four words (i. e. 'Chinese', 'Postal', 'Map' and 'Romanisation') seem to be long. Other information, such as the place name in Chinese, are also included in the brackets immediately after the place name in the lede - there's also the same question of whether they serve most of the readers most of the time. Is Anna suggesting that we should create a seperate section for each of the information (e. g., 'The place name in Chinese characters' and 'Pronunciation in Mandarin') in the brackets?

I'll even go as far as saying that Chinese Postal Map Romanisation spelling deserves a place in the lede - it's the traditional way of spelling place names of China in English; it's analogous to 'Munich' as opposed to 'München', or 'Calcutta' as opposed to 'Kolkata'. Including the Chinese Postal Map Romanisation spelling in the lede in the brackets can achieve two things - by not replacing the Hanyu Pinyin spelling with the Chinese Postal Map Roamnisation spelling, an implied acknowledgement of the existence of and China's preference to Hanyu Pinyin spelling is given; on the other hand, the value of Chinese Postal Map Romanisation spelling as the traditional way of spelling place names of China in English can be acknowledged when readers can be reminded of or introduced to it in the lede.

By the way, I think we can adopt Benlisquare's idea if we do think 'Chinese Postal Map Romanisation' is too long.

Douglas the Comeback Kid (talk) 09:10, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Agree with both of the two above, and want to add that it is my opinion that only total name changes, i.e. Chang'an to Xi'an, should be included in infoboxes. Obviously, where there are too many major former names, as with Beijing and Suzhou, they shouldn't be all included, and rather, for sake of fairness, not be included at all. GotR ^Talk 15:40, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Anna asked for my opinion. In general, I think they should be removed, unless the places themselves have had a nontrivial amount of mentions under those names in English sources prior to the widespread use of Pinyin (as is the case for Beijing / Peking), thus giving significance to those names. The names in Chinese are different—they are significant as common names by definition, and as the sources from which the English names are transliterated.

If we end up having them stay, I think the full "Chinese Postal Map Romanization" is too long, but I don't really have any better ideas either. If others haven't abbreviated it, I don't think we should be doing it. wctaiwan (talk) 16:10, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I think we should include them, since they were once a standard way the refer to locations. If you are looking at older material, it would be useful to have a crossindex on what they were called in different periods of romanization. -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 04:24, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Dunhuang Project editing event

Hi all,

This is to let you know that I've been working with the International Dunhuang Project group at the British Library to plan a multi-day editing event in late October focused on Central Asian archaeology (details). As well as contributions from IDP staff, we're hoping to get involvement from academics and students at UCL, and planning a session for interested Wikipedians.

If you're interested in taking part (online or offline), or you'd like further information when we've more details organized, please let me know or sign up here. Andrew Gray (talk) 13:18, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Bopomofo --> Zhuyin fuhao

I have requested a move for the article bopomofo, an article covered by this Wikiproject, to Zhuyin fuhao. Your participation in the discussion would be appreciated. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 14:07, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

ethnic composition of China prefectures and counties

Where I get ethnic composition of China prefectures and counties by cencus?--Kaiyr (talk) 16:26, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

You can find general information about Chinese ethnic groups at the List of ethnic groups in China, but you will need to be more specific if you are looking for the ethnic composition of a specific region (for example, Changji Hui Autonomous Prefecture lists a table for the entire ethnic composition of that prefecture). I don't know that a complete list of ethnic composition for every region in China exists on Wikipedia.

Is there something more specific that you are looking for?Ferox Seneca (talk) 19:49, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

• • Especcially autonomy refectures and counties.--Kaiyr (talk) 19:21, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that any complete list of ethnic composition for every region in China exists on Wikipedia, but I would suggest looking through Wikipedia's lists of counties and autonomous prefectures if you are looking for information about specific regions.Ferox Seneca (talk) 21:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

The China Data Center at the University of Michigan sells excel spreadsheets with such data.[2] The New York Times used it to make this map.[3] But if you can't pay, I guess you could look through the page histories for whoever added the ethnic composition for counties and asking them where they got their data. Shrigley (talk) 18:41, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Mass generation of Chinese subdivision stubs

Please see here. A user who can't read Chinese is using district lists to generate township substubs. I don't think it is a very good idea to do that without at least making sure zh interwikis and preemptive disambiguation. (A well-written bot would probably do better work than this user). Please see also the history at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/User:Jaguar and then comment at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Jaguar_again. —Kusma (t·c) 13:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I had created 9000 Chinese townships. Nearly all deleted. This morning I created 18. Every article already has been disambiguated. Interwikis can be added by a bot. But wait - do we need a bot for 18 articles!? ☠ Jaguar ☠ 14:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

We need a bot for 9000 good stubs. Nanguan Subdistrict is ambiguous (and so it has various wrong incoming links). This is not surprising when one checks zh:南关街道, which happens to be a disambiguation page. If you do any work on this, why not do it properly? —Kusma (t·c) 15:10, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, maybe I was wrong. User:Guerrilla of the Renmin was the one who disambiguated many of the Chinese Townships, maybe some of them haven't been properly disambiguated. ☠ Jaguar ☠ 15:13, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Kusma and Jaguar, please do not call ambiguous titles as disambiguation mistakes or improperly disambiguated; it is not the same as calling as a location in Shijiazhuang as being in Baoding. Keep in mind I created these lists before the bots at ZH-Wiki created the township lists (which are automatically free of ambiguity) from National Bureau of Statistics data. My work is not free of errors, but the occurrence of them is quite minimal. GotR ^Talk 12:46, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Percent of Taiwanese aborigines by Counties of Taiwan

Where I get Percent of Taiwanese aborigines by Counties of Taiwan?--Kaiyr (talk) 14:33, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Reassessment request

Requesting a reassessment for Stroke (CJKV character). A number of significant updates have been made since this was last assessed. Missylou2who (talk) 20:07, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Censorship in the Republic of China

Censorship in the Republic of China has been requested to be renamed, see Talk:Censorship in the Republic of China -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 05:15, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Census data for spaekers of language of PRC

Are there Census data for spaekers of language of PRC? Where I get it? For example quanty of miao language by Chna census?--Kaiyr (talk) 16:52, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Good links

Good links about China division http://chinadataonline.org/cgepublic/cityclient16/# --Kaiyr (talk) 19:18, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Tea map china province locator

Template:Tea map china province locator has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. DH85868993 (talk) 07:36, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Depopulation

It is strange that 12 ethnics depopulated in 2000-2010. Why? Mistake in census?--Kaiyr (talk) 07:10, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Burma → Myanmar requested-move notification

A requested move survey has been started (by Marcus Qwertyus (talk)) at Talk:Burma, which proposes to move:

• Burma → Myanmar

Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 22:56, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Image request

Anybody from Changsha? I'm looking for a snapshot of Guishan Guanyin of the Thousand Hands and Eyes. Thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:51, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:PremierofChina

Template:PremierofChina has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. DH85868993 (talk) 00:52, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

From CCTV, the Olympics on TDM

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:List of 2012 Summer Olympics broadcasters#Macau. Has TDM in Macau simulcast CCTV in mainland China for Olympics coverage before 2012 games? JSH-alive/^{talk/cont/mail} 14:53, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Category:Tiangong and Category:Shenzhou programme

Category:Tiangong and Category:Shenzhou programme have been proposed to be renamed. There's also an issue on which English variant should be used. As HK has been part of China since 1997, would HK English be the preferred form of English? Would HK English use "program" or "programme" ? -- 70.24.247.242 (talk) 02:09, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposed Code of conduct for the South China Sea

See this thread at ANI. GotR ^Talk 15:45, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:China-header

Template:China-header has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. DH85868993 (talk) 11:29, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Cantonese braille

There's a request for information on Cantonese braille at the talk page and WPHK. -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 11:04, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Later Tang's campaign against Meng Zhixiang and Dong Zhang

I'd like some thoughts from anyone who might be familiar with the campaign: does it call for having its own article? I am better at writing biographies than I am at events, I would say, and my own inclination initially is just to cover it in the relevant articles (mostly Emperor Mingzong of Later Tang, An Chonghui, Meng Zhixiang, and, eventually, when it is created, Dong Zhang), but I am wondering whether the campaign is complicated enough that the better treatment is to cover it largely in a separate article. Thoughts would be appreciated. --Nlu (talk) 01:54, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

File:Taklamakan desert sand dunes landsat 7.png

image:Taklamakan desert sand dunes landsat 7.png has been nominated for immediate deletion. -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 07:42, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

File:SunYatSen.jpg

image:SunYatSen.jpg has been sent for immediate deletion due to lack of a source, but it is tagged as a public domain photo. -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 12:46, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

image:Yi Syllabary Chart.svg

File:Yi Syllabary Chart.svg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 05:56, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Suifenhe

According to chinese sources, since 2011 Suifenhe is not a part of Mudanjiang Prefecture-level city, now it directly subordinates to the Heilongjiang province. Is it necessary to change the maps and info in articles? --Slb nsk (talk) 08:12, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

XZQH is authoritative, too, and it still lists Suifenhe City as subordinate to Mudanjiang City, and so does zh:Template:黑龙江行政区划. GotR ^Talk 15:06, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia cannot use itself as source :-) I asked my friend from China, and he replied, that situation with Suifenhe is very unusual: now it has TWO chiefs - Mudanjiang and Heilongjiang. Hence, I think it is better to not change anything. We'll wait and see :-) --Slb nsk (talk) 20:17, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Free use image request

I have posted a image request of the former headquarters (大北电报公司大楼) of the Great Northern Telegraph Company at The Bund in Shanghai. I would be most grateful if any wikipedian in Shanghai could take a free-use photo of this building at 7 East Zhongshan Road, since it can be used at multiple language versions dealing with this company.--Bothnia (talk) 12:02, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to be in Shanghai for the next two days. I can try to stop by this place and get a picture.Ferox Seneca (talk) 17:35, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Great! It is adorned with the Thai flag and other things, so you can't miss the building. Looking forward to it!--Bothnia (talk) 19:46, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm going out today to try and find this, but I honestly find the address extremely confusing. It says here that the building is Bund building no.7, but it says on another map I found (which I guess is blacklisted on Wikipedia and can't be linked) that building no.7 is the Russian consulate (not Thai)... and the address that you provided, East Zhongshan Lu, is very far from the Bund and difficult to get to... so I am not really sure what I am going to find.Ferox Seneca (talk) 01:45, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

I was able to find this building, and a few other image-requested buildings around Shanghai. I'll upload my pictures after I find a computer with a good photo-editing program, so I can make sure that they look alright. Give me about a week.Ferox Seneca (talk) 05:40, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the update! Looking forward to it.--Bothnia (talk) 15:15, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Chinese Geological Formations

Im an experienced wiki editor but newbie in wikipedia. I want to start adding content about geological formations, deposits and such to wikipedia. I have copyright permission of 150 pages worth of formation information of a book (equals to approx 750 formations each worth its own article) the information I can add would be location, age of formations, English and Chinese names and many have information of where the name was first coined and what the geological formation is actually made of. So my question is to help future proof my work. Should I continue adding them to one big dated List at List of Chinese geological formations? or should I delete that page (since I created it) and merge them into it's own category page?

Bohtauri (talk) 05:15, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Category:Chinese literary derivative works

Category:Chinese literary derivative works has been nominated to be merged into the Chinese classics category. -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 06:29, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

File:Arms of the Qing Dynasty.svg is a hoax, do not use it

Per the file description on Commons, this coat of arms image is a fictitious hoax. It is a misattributed coat of arms mentioned only in one source (a Russian book), and there are no official Qing records that even mention a "coat of arms". Please, do not use this image. I've had to remove it from Emperor of China. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 03:47, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, someone made the coat of arms a required parameter on the Template:Infobox former monarchy, so just removing the coat of arms parameters left a broken infobox; but I've modified the template to make coatofarms and coatofarmscaption parameters optional now. BabelStone (talk) 09:05, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Isn't there a blank image to use instead? There used to be several 100% transparent images, that could be used whenever there's a need for an image but no image (and there's the filler image saying "image needed") -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 04:48, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Currently the image is being used on a few other language Wikipedia projects (Korean and Russian Wikipedias to name a few) as if it was a real, official country coat of arms. Is someone able to inform them not to use it? I'm assuming that some people who work on other Wikipedias may have a really poor grasp of English, and never read English file descriptions, which then causes the file to be used on these projects due to the misunderstanding. I've requested that the file be renamed on Commons because the current title is misleading in that it implies that it is the proper, official coat-of-arms (despite being a hoax image, people still think it is real), however it was declined because per Commons policy, the filename isn't problematic, and no criteria for renaming has been met. According to the original creator of the image, the coat of arms is misattributed and not official. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 10:43, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Russian Wikipedia - cleared. The only russian link now is a personal page of one user, he uses this image as decoration. --Slb nsk (talk) 20:20, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

PLA template

After creating the article on Guo Huaruo, I found that the Chinese Wikipedia seems to have a template on PLA officials: zh:Template:中國人民解放軍開國中將 - Would anyone be interested in making an English version of this template? WhisperToMe (talk) 22:36, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Here you go, do you mean something like this? Template:Founding PLA officials. I wasn't sure if you meant that you only wanted to include articles that already exist on the English Wikipedia, or if you wanted me to convert the entire template from the Chinese Wikipedia, redlinks included. If the latter, I've only gone about half way, to see what you were actually after, and I can finish the rest if you want. If not, feel free to modify the template as you please (also feel free to fix up disambiguation, mistake corrections, etc). -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 00:28, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

I did want the entire template done, since it may include notable individuals who do not yet have English articles. Thank you WhisperToMe (talk) 00:50, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Done. Feel free to make corrections and disambiguations where necessary. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 04:41, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

File:BruceLee1971.jpg

File:BruceLee1971.jpg is up for deletion. It is a screenshot of Bruce Lee in his only television interview, for The Pierre Berton Show. -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 19:40, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Western China history topics

I've just recently created Tibetan Army. I recall that there were a few experts in the modern history of Western China (Xinjiang, the Ma Clique, etc) that were quite active a few months/years ago, where have they all gone? These editors seem to have disappeared (I remember Dyngane being one of them). Currently the article is very short, and I wouldn't mind some additional assistance in improving and expanding the article. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 04:58, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm really glad you created that article; I had intended to do so for a long time but kept getting distracted. Now we can replace all those infoboxes that just say "Tibetans" on one side, as if the other side was attacking civilians. I am still here, although I have much less time to edit than I used to. Anyway, I added some history from Shakya. There are still many areas where the article could improve, such as documenting the modern perception that Tibet didn't have an army because it was a totally Buddhist society or something like that. (I think I saw Robert Barnett (!) say that in a documentary). The same claim is made about the Mongols once they were converted to Lamaism. Shrigley (talk) 19:35, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Currently the article seems good enough to pass DYK (hence I've made the nomination at Template:Did you know nominations/Tibetan Army), however additional expansion would also be great, especially relating to military leaders, notable events and battles, internal and external politics (e.g. Chiang Kai-shek threatened to bomb Lhasa at one stage), et cetera. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 13:40, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Need some Chinese speakers at WP:RSN

I'd really appreciate it if someone could help out at WP:RSN#Wikisource as a source? where I've brought up sourcing problems in Zhang Xianzhong#The Seven Kill Stele - I deleted this section a while ago as it had an August 2009 fact tag and I couldn't find any useful sources, even after looking at [4]. Wikisource is being used [5] and now [6] which itself is sourced to something referred to as 稿源： 中华网论坛 编辑： 胡永秋. There are also talk page complaints about the other sources for the rest of the article. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 17:51, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Caste#China

Could someone take a look at the China section of Talk:Caste? There are some pretty blatant errors in the article, like calling the shi of late imperial China, or scholar-officials, a hereditary nobility. Some editors have argued that the article has become a WP:COATRACK by editors of South Asian articles to push the view that the caste system is not linked to Hinduism, although some have also defended the article's portrayal of the caste as a "universal" phenomenon. Whether or not that's a valid argument, based on what I've read of the sources, I feel that the editors have misrepresented (intentionally or not) the sources in the China section (one source cited never calls the Chinese system a caste, and in fact explicitly warns against it) to make their point of view. Involvement by other editors familiar with Chinese history would be most helpful.--Ninthabout (talk) 01:45, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Made a few fixes, still needs to be completely rewritten.--Ninthabout (talk) 15:57, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Help requested

Hi, I'm working on the article about the edible mushroom Phallus indusiatus, with the goal of soon bringing it to FAC. I was wondering if someone from this project might be able to help me find a reliable source for the latter half of the following sentence (and comment if the transliteration is accurate). Sasata (talk) 19:40, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

• "Alternate common names that refer to its typical growth habitat include "bamboo mushroom" or "bamboo pith", and its Chinese name zhu sheng (竹笙, pinyin: zhúshēng) or zhu sun (竹荪; pinyin: zhúsūn)."

South China Sea naming dispute

Since we have a Sea of Japan naming dispute article, should a companion article be created for the South China Sea naming dispute ? As it is the "South Sea" (PRC/ROC), "East Sea" (Vietnam), "West Philippine Sea" (Philippines) and "South China Sea" (internationally/HK). As the Philippines and HK are English speaking localities of the region, and Vietnam uses "East Sea" internationally in English, there seems to be enough to work from. -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 03:14, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

I thought about it too, but we need to put the recent spat into perspective. Korea's campaign against the international name is huge, and involves pressuring international organizations like IHO to rename or at least supplement the name of the sea. We haven't seen that with Nam or the Philippines. 

Also, there is at least some controversy on SoJ to write about, namely: what name for SoJ appeared in historical atlases? There is no question about what maps called the SSC before 2011, because the Philippine government pretty much invented a name with no previous local or international usage.

Whereas Korea has a prima facie sympathetic argument about having no international voice during Japanese occupation, Phil transparently made up this name to gain the upper hand in a territorial dispute. So the only people outside PH who will use "West Philippine Sea" are those who want to strike an anti-Chinese note.

Therefore, I think mention of this alternative name belongs in the main article about the Spratly/Scarborough dispute. Vietnam's name has some longer use (in Vietnamese, if not English). But it is so blatantly ethnocentric and problematic (conflicting with Korean SoJ efforts, and being incomprehensible to anyone outside Vietnam) that there's no chance of convincing anyone else to switch. In fact, the multiplicity of nationalist names ensures the use of SCS for writers trying to be neutral. 

In short, I think there is not enough independent controversy to write about, and there's little chance any will develop in the future. 64.134.241.111 (talk) 21:33, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Notation section at List of universities in XXXX

The section, (example) seems awkward to me. As a legend, it should maybe not be a main, first, and whole section. Also, maybe it should be a template because it appears in so many of these lists. This has always bugged me, but I've never thought of an alternative. Thoughts and suggestions? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:39, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Category move discussion

Recently a number of categories, including one related to this project, were moved without any discussion. The category related to this project is Category:Chinese television navigational boxes, which was moved to Category:China television navigational boxes. The moves have been opposed and a new discussion is in progress at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 September 17#Television navigational boxes. --AussieLegend (talk) 17:37, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Tang Dynasty navbox

I have created a new navbox for Tang Dynasty topics, Template:Tang Dynasty topics, based on the navbox Template:Han Dynasty topics. It's incomplete, and needs more links, so I'm looking for anyone who could help out.--Ninthabout (talk) 15:13, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Taoism/Tao Te Ching

FYI, both Taoism and Tao Te Ching have been proposed to be renamed to the Pinyin romanization, see Talk:Tao Te Ching -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 22:40, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Please Verify The Duration of the 2008 Sichuan earthquake as Being 2 Days and 8 Hours

The edit here at 2008 Sichuan earthquake http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2008_Sichuan_earthquake&oldid=457076884 was done by a Wikipedian that only came here and made 1 edit and probably created a page on himself that was speedyed. I am wondering if someone can verify the duration of the earthquake lasting 2 Days and 8 Hours? I can't find anything on this right now as I thought it only lasted a few minutes. Please Help! Sawblade5 ^{(talk to me | my wiki life)} 19:36, 22 September 2012 (UTC)