Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers/Archive 41

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Miquel Asins Arbó

This article has been tagged for notability for six years if anyone cares to tackle it. Best.4meter4 (talk) 06:52, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

I fixed him up, so to speak :) He's clearly notable. I added a bit of bio and some references, enough to remove the notability tag. I can't do more at the moment because I'm working on a wacky Italian composer. Voceditenore (talk) 09:52, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Reger

I joined the project, hope it will survive that ;) - 2016 is a Reger year, I transformed the List of compositions by Max Reger to a sortable table, and wonder if both should co-exist. If you want to link to a composition by opus number, you have a choice of going to the table or to the details, example Acht Geistliche Gesänge, Op. 38 or Op. 38. Any help with writing more articles on compositions? He died 11 May which is soon. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:36, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Infoboxes

Is there a particular reason why no composer articles have an Infobox?--Prisencolin (talk) 03:43, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Where did you look? Bach? Mozart? Verdi? You did not look above ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:42, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

archived now --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:48, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

It's a very contentious issue for some groups. - kosboot (talk) 12:43, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

When I took the question seriously, I forgot the date ;) - Happy birthday, Busoni! - Don't dare to say that the article looks as if it was about a painting. Or about a painter named Umberto Boccioni. Or about a gallery. Don't complain that you have to read past four given names to learn that he was a composer, pianist etc. You read before that he is Italian, which may be overly simple. At the end of the first paragraph, you get to know that he died in Berlin. Did you know: it's all to make people read the "beautifully crafted article" (nobody worded that better than you, Cassianto), not end caught in the box. - Happy birthday, Busoni! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:32, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Now, now, Gerda, you know I always leave the lead till last! And right now I'm stranded in Indian country.--Smerus (talk) 20:03, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

I helped the lead a bit ;) - No lead will get the fact that the pictured person is not Boccioni but a pianist/composer any sooner than after four given names (and that soon only thanks to the fact that we don't have IPA also). I want praise: I didn't start a talk page discussion ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:27, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

After April fools day, I read in the Signpost (dated 1 April) about research of how readers use Wikipedia (emphasis by me): "During lookup tasks, tables and graphical representations were preferred (but illustrative/decorative images were almost never looked at)." I don't think that's a joke. If Busoni was "my" article", it had - instead of the decorative image - the Persondata displayed visibly (such as Featured article Percy Grainger), with a link to the table of his major compositions (as for Beethoven). - The question is: are we willing to serve readers with lookup interests also, or not? - Next question: is the individual writer of a given article the best person to make that decision? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:01, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

If you are implying that you could reserve to yourself the right to disfigure articles to conform to your interpretations of other peoples research, I couldn't disagree more. The article I am rewriting on Busoni is not "my" article, it is an article which I am attempting to create according to Wikipedia standards. You create articles your way according to those standards, and I will not impose my views on them. Others will create articles in their own ways and expect the same courtesy.--Smerus (talk) 11:04, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

I imply nothing. I said "my" article (not "my article"), to make clear that it is not my article, nor is any article your article. I didn't add an infobox to Busoni, I didn't even suggest one on the talk page, I didn't even suggest one here, - what other courtesy do you request? - The research distinguishes readers who look up and readers who learn. I believe that an infobox would serve the "lookup readers" better while taking nothing away for those who want to learn more? What do we learn from that? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:32, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

I suggest, for example, the courtesy of ceasing to provoke futile exchanges of this sort. Best,--Smerus (talk) 11:48, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

I hope that Prisencolin, who asked, doesn't find this futile. - For courtesy: this discussion is mentioned in Signpost commentary and arbcom clarification. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:52, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

I disagree with Gerda's perpetual drive for infoboxes, but, AFAICS she didn't in this thread or at Ferruccio Busoni's article. I do agree with her that the current lead image for Busoni is unsuitable for several reasons. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 16:46, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. There's a couple of decent photographs lower down in the article. The painting is fine for lower down in the article but in the lead you want a decent likeness.DavidRF (talk) 17:26, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Wow thanks for the responses. I probably should've just looked at the of the page before asking, but I had no idea the issue was being discussed right this moment.--Prisencolin (talk) 18:50, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

If you search for infobox in the archives here, you get 30 entries between 2007 and 2015, when you search my name you get only two, - so much for my alleged "perpetual drive" ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:36, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Ferruccio Busoni

I've initiated a peer review for Busoni and would welcome all or any constructive comments. I'm hoping to get it up to GA but am presently feeling a bit blocked with it - what does it need?--Smerus (talk) 15:53, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Hasty comment: I once heard someone remark that Busoni's legacy is not with his music, but his teaching, in that he had so many significant students, both as piano teacher and composition teacher. The article has very little of that, just that short paragraph under "Last years." There must be some studies of Busoni's teaching. Go for it. - kosboot (talk) 19:12, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Noted, thanks.--Smerus (talk) 19:57, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Now at GA review

I've now nominated Ferruccio Busoni for GA review and welcome all and any comments and contributions there - also someone willing to start it!.Smerus (talk) 17:48, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

RFC on Brahms

There is a new RFC at

Talk:Johannes_Brahms#RFC:_Should_the_lead_of_the_article_on_Johannes_Brahms_include_counterpoint_as_a_key_element_in_his_compositional_style

Looking forward to your input. Ravpapa (talk) 07:46, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

RfC on hidden comments

At Talk:Gustav Holst#RfC on removal of hidden comment, there is an RfC which may be within the scope of this WikiProject. Comments would be welcome. --RexxS (talk) 20:38, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Closed. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:05, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom

The question on the hidden texts asking editors to discuss the addition of infoboxes has been raised at Arbcom (the thread has widened into a more general discussion about IB use and discussions): Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Amendment request: Infoboxes. Interested parties are open to make comments should they wish. – SchroCat (talk) 09:12, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

It was archived a while ago. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:05, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Composer at AfD

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christopher Adler could benefit from eyes of editors experienced in assessing notability of composers. PamD 22:57, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

More composers at AfD

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hikari Kiyama is now at AfD. Does lack sources, needs eyes to assess. Montanabw^(talk) 22:53, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

both closed --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:06, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages

Greetings WikiProject Composers/Archive 41 Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:

• Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, Stevietheman — Delivered: 17:57, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Category:Works_by_composer's status as a child of Category:Composers

Is this really appropriate? At first glance this doesn't seem particularly intuitive, a work by a composer is not a composer. I'm wondering if this is a convention with a rationale or simply a mistake that can be rectified.

If this seems overly nit-picky, it's because I'm working on a machine learning toy that uses Wikipedia categories as an ontology. My understanding is that the purpose of wiki categories is to provide ontological annotations, so this particular parent/child relationship strikes me as pretty odd.

Thanks, Bawb131 (talk) 01:40, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Hoping to be helpful, I would say this. Consider the point that classical listeners wouldn't give a damn about the great composers if it weren't for what they wrote. When one speaks of "Brahms" as a topic, it's really an overarching category for Brahms:Works and Brahms:Life. Surely the same is true for celebrated novelists or painters.

The solution is for you, I humbly suggest, is make your toy smarter. Sensible human ontologies should be the standard of performance to which you aspire. Sincerely, Opus33 (talk) 05:49, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

If anything, that sounds like a justification for Brahms to be a category onto itself, containing articles of Brahms:Works and Brahms:Life. I just can't see how annotating a work as a composer is meant to make any sense to either a human or machine — hence my inquiry wrt preexisting convention.

I appreciate your suggestion, but it's not the point: If I thought it was a sensible human ontology, I wouldn't have bothered asking whether it was a mistake. In any case, humans don't need ontologies spelled out for us; we already know them. Given that the only agents who can apply odd rationalisations to justify describing one entity as something else entirely also already have a good understanding of said entity's ontology, one must wonder why any effort at all is made to annotate such relationships. If explicit ontological annotation exists to describe the relationships of entities to agents who do not already know them, I can't imagine that "composers probably aren't relevant without their works" is an adequate justification for stating that "works are composers" (however revelatory that sounds :)

Bawb131 (talk) 06:26, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

It's a great question and all lines of thinking make sense to me. I went to Help:Category to find the general Wikipedia recommendation for how to handle this stuff. Subcategories are "Related" to the parent category, not necessarily within it. So while "Works by" isn't a composer, it's related to Composers. Hope that's helpful! Sketchee (talk) 15:32, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

RfC that questions our consensus

Note that there is a debate that affects the consensus of this Wikiproject re Infoboxes going on here:

• Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Infoboxes § RfC: Should biographical articles always include an infobox?

Those who remember Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers/Infoboxes RfC might wish to participate... (Yeah, I know...)
Jubileeclipman, now editing as — Iadmc♫^talk  13:12, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

How absolutely thrilling!!! Ravpapa (talk) 15:19, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Haha! — Iadmc♫^talk  17:37, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Reger

We have a List of compositions by Max Reger and a List of works by Max Reger, with a history too long to explain. Should they stay separate or be merged? Please discuss on Project Classical music, not here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:38, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

• Here's the link to that discussion: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music#Reger --Francis Schonken (talk) 17:39, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject Composers/Archive 41/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject Composers.

We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:

• The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
• The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
• The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject Composers, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Roger Sacheverell Coke

I've created a new article on the British composer, Roger Sacheverell Coke (after looking for one and finding the cupboard bare). But I have no handy non-online sources so it definitely needs some help from someone with Grove, the full version of the cited Musical Opinion article, etc. Thanks Davidships (talk) 00:22, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

• 0 in Grove, alas.--Smerus (talk) 06:06, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Apparently something in Grove 5th Ed (1955) - found this in a blog: Colin Mason who contributed the essay in the fifth edition of Grove, wrote: "His music, which reflects his sympathies for Mahler, Bruckner and Rachmaninov, is written with considerable accomplishment in a mainly pre-Debussy idiom". Davidships (talk) 19:36, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Malcolm Lipkin

An editor has added a date of death for Malcolm Lipkin, citing no source, but with the edit summary "death of composer, as announced by MusicWeb International". Is MusicWeb International a reliable source? It seems a somewhat jumbled site. I can only find a one-line announcement there, and nothing on any news sites about Lipkin's passing. I've reverted for now, though I presume sources will emerge. --Deskford (talk) 13:28, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

The Telegraph has now reported his death. I've added this as a source, though most of the obituary is hidden behind a paywall. --Deskford (talk) 23:07, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Question about Armen Hambar

Hi there. Armen Hambar is the composer, producer, and musician who releases music under his company name Future World Music, for which the article is currently on AfD. I'm wondering if you have any advice for how to best address the article. I extensively rewrote the article on Saturday, but the next editor removed the in-paragraph references to Hambar, saying the article was about the company and not the composer. I'm not sure the two are separable, since he is the company and the company is him.

I believe Hambar and the music he composes and releases are notable and worthy of a Wikipedia article, as explored in detail in my AfD vote at the bottom of the listing. However, I am not sure that keeping the article's focus on his company rather than on him directly as a composer, producer and musician is the best path to take. Yet, since his work as a composer is nonexistent outside of the music he puts out through his company, that might not be a good path to follow either.

Basically, on the surface it might seem that Hambar could be of interest to this WikiProject, so I'm asking about that here. But maybe there is some other WikiProject that he and his music composition and production would more appropriately fit under the scope of. Any ideas? —pfahlstrom (talk) 22:36, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Telemann

Georg Philipp Telemann died 250 years ago on Sunday, 25 June 1767. Can we get rid of the ref tag in two days? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:45, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

WiR focus on music and dance in July

		Welcome to Women in Red's July 2017 worldwide online editathons.
		File:60C0074BA4FF-1 Джемма Халид.jpg "Women in dance" "Women in music" "Women from India"

(To subscribe: Women in Red/English language list and Women in Red/international list. Unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Ipigott (talk) 10:23, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Robert Bruce at AfD

Robert Bruce (Scottish composer) is currently listed at AfD. Can anyone with access to Grove or other encyclopedias please check if he is listed? Thanks! --Deskford (talk) 14:50, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi Deskford. He's not in Grove or in Baker's. This is not surprising since his sole output seems to be one symphony, the recording of which is only available privately from his family. He may be notable for other reasons, but not, in my view, as a composer. Voceditenore (talk) 15:48, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for checking. I suspect you may be right. The recording of the symphony was once available on the BMS label – that was where I first came across it – but it seems no longer to be available, and I can't find evidence of other works online. Even the Scottish Music Centre seems to have nothing. --Deskford (talk) 16:05, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Monteverdi peer review

User:Brianboulton and I have sought to significantly expand, and improve the quality of, the article on Claudio Monteverdi and would be very grateful for any comments at the Peer Review which we have just launched here. Many thanks, Smerus (talk) 16:14, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Claudio Monteverdi for FA

Following a very helpful peer review, Brianboulton and I have now resolved to subject the article to an FA candidature, and welcome all and any constructive comment. --Smerus (talk) 16:47, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Paolo Cavallone

The article for Paolo Cavallone recently survived an AfD as "no consensus", despite content that was almost entirely lifted from the biography section of Cavallone's website, and a suspiciously large number of recently-registered editors arguing for the article to be kept. I suspect few people attached to this WikiProject or Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical music had any idea about the AfD because it was not tagged with the relevant WikiProjects (I've done so now). This isn't my area of musical expertise, so are there members of this WikiProject who have access to books, guides, etc. to be able to confirm Mr Cavallone's notability? Thanks. Richard3120 (talk) 23:37, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Richard Wagner#Influence on cinema

A discussion on this topic is taking place on the Richard Wagner talk page. Smerus (talk) 06:48, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Composers (and other musicians) who died young

See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music#WP:Articles for deletion/List of composers who died before age 50. Please comment there, not here. --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:53, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Category:Karl Jenkins has been nominated for discussion

Category:Karl Jenkins, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion along with changes to 6 other small composer categories. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 03:51, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Article for deletion

The article William Edward Haesche has been nominated for deletion – please see the AfD if you want to take part in the discussion. Richard3120 (talk) 20:15, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

The AfD has been voted down. - kosboot (talk) 13:50, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

The saga continues. Since all the sources I found had his name as William Edwin Haesche I moved the article to that name. Now someone has created Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2017_October_2#William_Edward_Haesche. - kosboot (talk) 21:30, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject

Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Composers

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod ^talk 14:34, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Robert Savage (composer)

The article Robert Savage (composer) has been put up for AfD – please see the discussion here if you wish to take part in the debate. Richard3120 (talk) 15:12, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Felix Mendelssohn

I've put FM up for peer review with a view to getting comments which could enable it to be taken up to FA. All opinions highly welcome.-- Smerus (talk) 14:42, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

• now up for FA review.--Smerus (talk) 16:17, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Peter Jarvis at AfD

Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Peter Jarvis. Voceditenore (talk) 14:33, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Deletion discussion

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yiğit Kolat hi all there is a deletion discussion going on here and I would like some input from some specialists. I need some input notably concerning the prizes that the composer won and whether they meet #4 of the criteria on WP:COMPOSER. Thanks. Dom from Paris (talk) 07:11, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

AfD proposal

There is an AfD proposal at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Philip Czaplowski which members of this project may wish to comment on. Thanks. Richard3120 (talk) 14:13, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Spam links to "Online Music Library"

See the discussion at WikiProject Classical music. Voceditenore (talk) 10:48, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Sergei Pavlenko

As far as I can see, we don't have an article on the Ukrainian composer Sergei Pavlenko (1952–2012). The article Sergei Pavlenko is about a British painter (born 1953), although many of the incoming links to that page are meant for the composer, and at least one appears to be for a Ukrainian politician of the same name. Would it be worth creating a stub on the composer? He's listed on WP:MET (as Sergey Vasil'yevich Pavlenko), which I believe means we regard him as notable, though I don't have access to much information about him, and Google searches lead to lots of other people with the same name. --Deskford (talk) 19:15, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Request for inclusion of Information Box for the distinguished composer/conductor Samuel Adler (composer)

Hello fellow Wikipedians - As per the suggestion of User:Jerome Kohl on 21 August 2018 kindly consider including the following Information Box for the composer and conductor Samuel Adler (composer). The inclusion of such a box would be consistent with the articles about two of his mentors: Aaron Copland and Randall Thompson. It might also serve as a useful starting point and summary for younger contemporary researchers who are largely unfamiliar with leading musical figures from the past who remain alive and active today (such as Samuel Adler). Many thanks in advance for your thoughtful consideration and best wishes for the continued success of your endeavors for wikipedia. As always- with gratitude104.207.219.150 (talk) 14:53, 22 August 2018 (UTC)PS 104.207.219.150 (talk) 14:53, 22 August 2018 (UTC)PS

Samuel Adler
Born	(1928-03-04)March 4, 1928 Mannheim, Germany USA
Occupation(s)	Composer Conductor Author Professor
Years active	1953 - present
Awards	ASCAP's Aaron Copland Award Charles Ives Award Deems Taylor Award Sigma Alpha Iota National Arts
Website	www.samuelhadler.com

Samuel Adler (composer) has served as a faculty member of several leading music conservatories including the Eastman School of Music and the Juilliard School for over sixty years. He has also published several texts on such topics as: conducting, orchestration and choral singing. Over the decades he has also received several honorary doctorates from his academic peers in addition to several awards from the Juilliard School and the Eastman School of Music as well as recognition from Phi Beta Kappa, Sigma Alpha Iota and Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia. In light of these observations, perhaps an "Inforbox academic" utilizing the template {{Infobox academic}} would be more appropriate in this case. Any thoughts? See Talk:Samuel Adler (composer) for your input. Many thanks in advance 72.69.152.90 (talk) 15:37, 25 August 2018 (UTC)JJ

Will take the infobox to the composer (slightly modified, no flag, for example), but prefer person as the best-maintained infobox template. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:59, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. Kindly note that the InfoBox for a person has been removed again- perhaps due to some confusion. It might be advisable to consider using a {{Infobox academic}} instead in order to avoid this problem, or perhaps restore the InfoBox and leave a note on the article not to remove the "Info- Box person" template. Many thanks for your helps as always. With Best Wishes104.207.219.150 (talk) 19:37, 27 August 2018 (UTC)PS104.207.219.150 (talk) 19:38, 27 August 2018 (UTC)PS104.207.219.150 (talk) 19:40, 27 August 2018 (UTC)PS104.207.219.150 (talk) 19:41, 27 August 2018 (UTC)PS

The problem is not with the type of infobox, but rather that there is an ongoing (unresolved) discussion on the article Talk page that demonstrates no consensus for adding an infobox. At any rate, not yet.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 19:46, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Attn. Editors - Assessment Request for Samuel Adler (composer)

Hello fellow Wikipedians - Perhaps when an editor has time the article Samuel Adler (composer) can be assessed for the WikiProject Composers. Improvements include : A new Compositional Style section, a new Liturgical Music paragraph listing, additional links to the Seventh Army Symphony Orchestra, cultural diplomacy and citations with references for additional awards and publications and an External Media Box. Many thanks in advance for your kind consideration. As always, with Best Wishes 104.207.219.150 (talk) 19:47, 4 October 2018 (UTC)PS

GA reassessment

Chris Field (composer), an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Richard3120 (talk) 15:23, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Tibor Szemző

Would anyone care to have a look at the article on Tibor Szemző? An editor has recently replaced the existing text with new material that sounds promotional and non-encyclopedic, apparently at the request of the subject. I haven't reverted as there may be useful content that can be salvaged from the new version, and the old version wasn't well-referenced either, but I would welcome further opinion on how best to handle this. --Deskford (talk) 16:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

I took the liberty of reverting as there were no sources for the informatino and the wholething was more or less WP:PEACOCK.--Smerus (talk) 19:24, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! I probably should have been bold and done it myself. --Deskford (talk) 22:35, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Recent change of DEFAULTSORT for Michel van der Aa

I would welcome any comment here: Talk:Michel van der Aa#DEFAULTSORT change. Thanks. --Deskford (talk) 17:31, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Bogus portraits

Google results, from right to left: a haloed saint, 18c peruque-wearer, detail from…Memling?, a bishop, early 17c woodcut posthumously representing Josquin, Josquin in a 19c idealization, all with highly dubious labels.

I've noticed a tendency (on IMSLP as well as WP) to supply images whose connection to a subject is at best wishful, the latest being at Pérotin. For Henri Dumont one can provide a link to a discussion of the provenance, and for Philippe Verdelot at least the painter is identified, if not the connection to the composer (a different portrait by Sebastiano del Piombo is documented, though Grove online states "Despite much research this painting has not yet been identified and dated with certainty"). The painting accompanying the Francesca Caccini article has been removed: should this be policy, or should we consider some way to tag questionable items? Fallows' book Josquin (2009), btw, has fascinating stuff on possible if not probable depictions. Sparafucil (talk) 22:17, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I was just looking at those recent edits at Pérotin. That image looks suspicious, especially as on Commons the source is given as "Unknown". Surely the editor uploading it must have known where they got it from? --Deskford (talk) 00:16, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Agree. This is the first time I have ever seen a depiction alleging to be Pérotin himself. Google image search failed to turn up anything like a scholoarly, reliable source.

For what it's worth I've gotten rid of a lot of spurious images over the years -- Giovanni Gabrieli comes to mind, but there were plenty of others. "Last.fm" seems to be a particular offender, making casual guesses about images which then end up here. Antandrus (talk) 00:21, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Composer Alexandre Danilevsky

He also spells his name Danilevski (with an 'i'). Sjam986 (talk) 08:52, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

References

Are record producers composers?

Are all record producers composers, as currently shown here at Category:Record producers? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:27, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

ATTN Editors - RE: Upgrades to Howard Hanson - Kindly reassess when time permits.

Hello fellow Wikipedians - If an editor has extra time perhaps Howard Hanson can be reassessed - the articl ewas classified as a Start Class in 2009. Since that time additional sections for "Compositional Style" and "Death" have been added along with photographs and External Audio Boxes linked to performances of Hanson's music. Also included are additional reference sources and citations from new publications about Hanson's directortship at the Eastman School of Music and his compositional output. Templates requesting additional reference citations have been removed. The list of compositions has also been enhanced. Perhaps an upgrade of the rating of the article can be arranged. Many thanks in advance for your kind and thoughtful assistance and Best Wishes for the continued success of the Composer's Project 104.207.219.150 (talk) 20:17, 20 January 2019 (UTC)PS

Dowland

Dowland has been a redirect to John Dowland for over 14 years, but there is a proposal for it to be replaced by the disambiguation page. Please express any opinions at Talk:Dowland (disambiguation)#Requested move 20 January 2019. --Deskford (talk) 20:16, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Rossini

Tim riley and I have been working on Rossini's article and now have it up for peer review, en route, we hope, to FAC. Any comments, queries or suggestions for improvement will be most welcome there.--Smerus (talk) 09:37, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

• Now up for FA review. --Smerus (talk) 22:55, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Felix Mendelssohn for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Felix Mendelssohn is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Felix Mendelssohn until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:21, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

A new newsletter directory is out!

A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.

– Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Talk:Johann_Sebastian_Bach#Need_for_a_copyedit

This has had a lot of additions in the last year, including some odd and over-ripe language. Someone is threatening to unleash the Guild of Copy-editors on it, which is not likely to help. Could some one give it a check-over? Pretty please! Johnbod (talk) 23:55, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

I am in the GOCE but will try to help nevertheless. Jmar67 (talk) 12:29, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Ajeesh Dasan for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ajeesh Dasan is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ajeesh Dasan until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Archer1234 (talk) 17:02, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Andrew March

• Andrew March

This appears to be an article about a composer, but it is not tagged by the Composers project. Should it be? Is he a significant composer? --94.197.3.74 (talk) 21:48, 29 August 2019 (UTC) (Eric)

Patrick Hadley

There's an undated comment on Talk:Patrick Hadley that suggests the biographical details may be a copyright violation. Does anybody know if this has been resolved? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.196.204.131 (talk) 08:31, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Rutger Hoedemaekers

I have created a page on a Dutch composer Rutger Hoedemaekers. Any suggestion and help is welcome. Is it worthy to get added into WikiProject Composer? Marnie Hawes (talk) 08:12, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

External links to MuseScore

Yesterday external links to scores on the MuseScore project were added to Richard Wagner (multiple times) and multiple other composer articles (a couple now reverted). Discussion on their appropriateness at Talk:Richard Wagner#External link to MuseScore. Voceditenore (talk) 09:23, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Luc Grethen at AfD

Luxembourg contemporary classical composer born 1964. Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Luc Grethen. Voceditenore (talk) 11:13, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Enzo Camporeale

I came across this article via WP:THQ#Enzo Camporeale, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines, and may not be retained. and it needs quite a bit of work. Perhaps someone from this WikiProject could help try and sort things out. This might be a case of WP:NEXIST, but right now there are no sources cited inline which establish WP:BIO or even WP:COMPOSER and the unsourced content is also a problem per WP:BLPSOURCES. Maybe there's enough coverage to establish a viable stub, but a basic Google search is not showing (at least on the first few pages of resutls) anything really resembling WP:SIGCOV. Perhaps someone more familiar with this type of article will have better luck, or maybe there are better sources in another language. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:48, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Marchjuly. I've done a massive clean-up and pruning of the article and referenced it with some inline citations, although the main ones are not independent. See Talk:Enzo Camporeale for details. After quite an extensive search for the few sources I've found, my view is that this person pretty comprehensively fails both the general notability criteria and the notability criteria for musicians. I will nominate it for deletion, if additional and better sources cannot be found. Voceditenore (talk) 16:30, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for taking a look at this Voceditenore. I kept on looking for some significant coverage of this person after posting above, but still wasn't able to find any. I also asked about this at WT:ITALY#Enzo Camporeale on the off chance that someone might be able to find some coverage about him in Italian, but nobody has responded there yet. -- Marchjuly (talk) 13:52, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Marchjuly, I'm fluent in Italian and the references that I added to the article (all in Italian) were the best that I could find.

1. is from his own website (not independent of the subject)

2. and 3. are biographies on two non-notable private dance schools where he works as an accompanist (not independent of the subject)

4. is about multiple concerts/recitals being given in the Province of Bari in April 2009. He is listed as the accompanist in one recital, but nothing else about him or his works.

5. and 6. are both from two local sites in his hometown, Giovinazzo (pop. 20,000). The first is about how he has composed anthems for the town's five-a-side football and hockey teams. The second is about his song inspired by the letters of Raffaele Sollecito, which Camporeale performed on the television show Porta a Porta in December 2009.

In my view, this isn't remotely enough to pass the criteria at either WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO. I truly doubt that anything else will miraculously turn up. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 14:41, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that you understand Italian. There's no article about Camporeale about on Italian Wikipedia; so, I wouldn't even know where to begin in searching for Italian sources anyway. The article was created back in 2015 maybe on the hope that better sources would eventually be found. Sometimes a WP:TOOSOON type of subject does end up doing something that gains them [:WP:SIGCOV]] in reliable sources after some time has passed, but that hasn't seemed to have happened here. Unless there's some specific part of WP:COMPOSER that he can be considered to have met, I think this is probably going to end up at AfD. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:56, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians: an "unsuitable reference"?

Seeking comment or action here on whether The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians is an "unsuitable reference." Thanks. Doremo (talk) 16:33, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Fanny Mendelssohn/Fanny Hensel name change?

An informal discussion, perhaps a prequel to a formal name-change proposal, is taking place here on whether the article should be under the subject's married or maiden name.--Smerus (talk) 20:56, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Fanny Mendelssohn infobox

Ands there is also now a discussion about adding an infobox to the article.--Smerus (talk) 12:30, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Sad News

Longtime Wikipedian contributor who is a part of this WikiProject, User:Meladina (and later went by User:Dmitrismirnov), died from complications after contracting COVID-19. His Wikipedia page, Dmitri Smirov, has been updated to reflect his unfortunate passing. Deep sympathies to his family and friends who have lost a great person. FunksBrother (talk) 18:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Rachmanianof

There's a redirect from "Rachmanianof" to the page on the composer, and this keeps turning up in search results when I'm looking for the composer. I asked for it to be deleted as an implausible typo, but my request was refused because this redirect has been in place for a long time. I don't really understand why that matters, but maybe there's something I'm missing. Does a long-established redirect become essential for the functioning of Wikipedia? I don't think it's a major issue, but it is annoying when it turns up in searches. Thank you for any comments. --188.30.119.247 (talk) 14:22, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

I think it is a very plausible typo considering that many people pronounce it this way. Jmar67 (talk) 14:31, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

A quick Google search for this spelling yields 111 hits, which does not seem substantial to me, but let's hear from others. Toccata quarta (talk) 15:02, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

• Probably best to take this to WP:RfD. Instant deletion was refused (correctly) for WP:CSD reasons: even if everyone on this page agreed it should be deleted, it would still have to be taken to RfD, because that's where it is decided whether a long-standing typo redirect should be kept or not. Unless it is discussed there, no admin action (like deletion) can be executed. --Francis Schonken (talk) 15:45, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for this explanation of the process involved, which I think I understand. I wouldn't want to push for deletion if Jmar67 thinks it is a plausible typo and people pronounce the name this way. I don't think I've heard it pronounced like this, but that's just my limited experience. If the redirect is kept, is there any way of suppressing its appearance in the search box? When I type "rachm" in the Wikipedia search box I get this spelling coming up before any other alternatives. --188.30.119.247 (talk) 14:27, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

That's because of the alphabetical order; I don't believe there's anything else driving the order in which the entries appear in the search suggestions. Toccata quarta (talk) 15:38, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't believe that it is alphabetical, though that might be just one element - just try adding one letter at a time to the composer's name and watch the changes. One thing is for certain: the system generally produces some mighty strange results. Davidships (talk) 00:27, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Agreed, I'm not getting suggestions in alphabetical order. I've tried adding a categorisation to the redirect, though it's not clear if this will make any difference. --188.30.119.247 (talk) 11:02, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Afaik, the ordering in the drop-down suggestions of the search box is done by what is most often selected. So if "Rachmanianof" is often selected there, it will stay high in the list (currently even outdoing Rachmaninov until the first letter after the i is typed correctly). Bottom line: never ever select "Rachmanianof" from the drop-down list if you want to avoid seeing it in that list in the future. For that reason I've delinked "Rachmanianof" in the OP (making it a clickable link here may have worsened its high appearance in the drop-down list because of people clicking on it). That is, if I'm correct. Referring to WP:VPT for further technical questions: someone there might know how the drop down list algorithm actually works, and whether it can be modified on an individual basis. --Francis Schonken (talk) 11:32, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Adding some page view statistics (uses of redirects) for the last 30 days:

Some thoughts:

• See the peak for "Rachmanianof" on the day it was brought to this talk page?
• Likely "stop obsessing about it" is the best advice to make Rachmanianof go away in the drop-down list: then it will go back to a usage of around five a day, with several other variants having higher occurrences, and thus climbing the list.
• Note that *if* (see WP:VPT comment above) a customisation is possible, such customisation will likely only be available to logged-in users (not to IP editors).

--Francis Schonken (talk) 12:44, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for producing those charts, which I find interesting, although I suspect page view statistics are going to be heavily influenced by which page the search algorithms send people to. Maybe "stop obsessing about it" is the best advice, though it seems the problem is widespread - as I start typing "tchaik" I get "Tchaikofski" coming up before any common or normal spelling of the composer's name. My concern is that these redirects from weird spellings may encourage people to use those weird spellings. I can't imagine any other encyclopedia or dictionary intentionally listing typos. --188.30.119.247 (talk) 13:30, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, and that's why we have WP:RfD. If it bothers you, take it there. The first reply to your OP above shouldn't discourage you to take it to the place where the proper discussion, which can result in an elimination of the sort of counterproductive redirect, can be held. I wouldn't have bothered to show up on such RfD discussion a month ago: I have now both the Rachmanianof and the Tchaikofski redirects on my watchlist, so that I'll likely show up if an RfD is initiated for either of them. I can't predict what the end result would be, but you would at least have tried to improve the encyclopedia. --Francis Schonken (talk) 15:17, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Gáty Zoltán at AfD

Hungarian composer and conductor of the early 20th C.. Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gáty Zoltán. Voceditenore (talk) 11:35, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Requested name change: Fanny Mendelssohn -> Fanny Hensel

A requested move is being discussed here.--Smerus (talk) 08:49, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

RfC relating to MusicBrainz at WP:VPT

Now launched at WP:VPT#RfC: should the "Authority control" template continue to include MusicBrainz identifiers?. --Francis Schonken (talk) 07:24, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Requested name change: Fanny Mendelssohn -> Fanny Mendelssohn Hensel

Following absence of consensus on either "Fanny Mendelssohn" or "Fanny Hensel", a requested move for the page "Fanny Mendelssohn" is now being discussed here --Smerus (talk) 12:39, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Mis-attribution of J.C.Bach Harpsichord Concerto recordings

After a ton of research, including consulting Bach experts and German libraries, it has been conclusively shown that a 1960s recording by the Angelicum Orchestra of Milan, first on Harmonia Mundi, then Odyssey and others, mis-identified two Concertos, (C minor and G major), as by J.C.Bach. C minor is by J.W.Hertel, and G Major is by Georg Anton Benda. The error may have been the result of two things:

1)No access by the West to pertinent materials kept behind the Iron Curtain.

2) A discovery of a set of parts which had the name “G.C.F.Bach” attached. Speculation is that communication between the, (Western), scholar, (DeNys), and the Conductor, (Cattini), broke down, resulting in the “F” being omitted. Doelrich (talk) 22:02, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Well that would clearly need some solid reliable sourcing to get into any article. Davidships (talk) 23:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Surname links

I'm working through Wikipedia's most-linked surnames, fixing links which should lead to an individual. Many are easy – all 95 links to Schoenberg intended Arnold Schoenberg – but I'm currently stuck on Scarlatti. Some seem obvious even to this non-musician – anything mentioning sonatas is probably Domenico Scarlatti – but I'd rather not guess. Please can a more knowledgeable editor look at the 19 articles in Special:WhatLinksHere/Scarlatti? If you spot other surname links in those articles, please let me know, as they may need attention elsewhere too. Thanks, Certes (talk) 21:53, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

@Certes: I've gone through all of them, good call with working on the surname disambiguation links. The rule is basically as you said, anything to do with Keyboard or Piano is Domenico Scarlatti and anything to do with Opera or voice is Alessandro Scarlatti. It's almost never the other less known composers in the disambiguation page and when it is they would most likely already be referred to by their full name in the article. The only one I was uncertain about was Hatch Memorial Shell since it is in a list of composers whose names are on the structure. The sources and places online only referred to him as "Scarlatti" but I'm fairly confident it was Domenico since when in doubt it's usually him – as far as I've seen. Aza24 (talk) 23:26, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Aza24! Certes (talk) 23:29, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

To add to this page

To add to this page: an easy-to-find section called "Requests for new articles about composers" (who don't already have their own Wikipedia article). 173.88.246.138 (talk) 19:21, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Michael Hannan (composer) AfD

The discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Hannan (composer). Voceditenore (talk) 18:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)