Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law Enforcement/Archive 11

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Category:Members of the United Kingdom Special Constabularies

A useful new category? We can't have "Special Constables" because Special Constable and Special Constabulary aren't the same thing, but after reading about Nigel Mansell today I wonder whether it would to place former SCs in this category. There are a lot of famous people out there who used to be Specials. Thoughts? SGGH ^ping! 11:03, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Logo

Just seen this at the logo discussion. Hop over there and vote if you like it. SGGH ^ping! 11:05, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

• 

I have been bold and put this as the logo (though removed the Wikipedia logo as it is copyrighted) as there has been no response to discussion. SGGH ^ping! 18:48, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Greater Manchester Police, Tactical Firearms Unit nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greater Manchester Police, Tactical Firearms Unit

Not notable as a separate topic, IMO. Nothing to suggest it has done anything outside the normal events of any force's firearms unit. SGGH ^ping! 14:01, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Pageview stats

After a recent request, I added WikiProject Law Enforcement to the list of projects to compile monthly pageview stats for. The data is the same used by http://stats.grok.se/en/ but the program is different, and includes the aggregate views from all redirects to each page. The stats are at Wikipedia:WikiProject Law Enforcement/Popular pages.

The page will be updated monthly with new data. The edits aren't marked as bot edits, so they will show up in watchlists. You can view more results, request a new project be added to the list, or request a configuration change for this project using the toolserver tool. If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Mr.Z-man 00:37, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Crime in the United States

Please see the talk page of the above to lend your opinion to the idea of creating state-by-state crime articles, whether they are required or not. SGGH ^ping! 14:00, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Scope

I have excluded from the scope firearms which are not particularly associated with the police. I know we include equipment like cuffs and things, but handguns which are used by one or two forces in the entire world I don't think should be covered by us. SGGH ^ping! 12:19, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Police

We have an editor who insists on his point of view prevailing, and other editors are now tired of him. Fresh eyes would be welcome in getting the lead of this article into shape. Rodhullandemu 22:21, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it has been flicked to article watch at the moment. It's difficult to find an outright violation of guidelines, apart from general nuisance. What did the AN/I conclude? SGGH ^ping! 22:50, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps now he has made his edit he might ease off a little. SGGH ^ping! 22:55, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Polizia Regionale: pure fantasy

Hi, I found the same problem in the Italian version of this article: false statements and pure fantasy. The fact is that a regional police force simply does not exist in Italy; the article instead is able to tell the colors of their vehicles... So, please, take a look at some notes I left in the article's talk. Thank you --Altreali (talk) 10:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I've tagged it with an "expert needed" tag - I don't have any knowledge of Italian cricket, I invite any user who does to help out. I take it you will be fixing the article up, Altreali? SGGH ^ping! 15:43, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I certainly would, but as I said in the talk page, I don't know if the text with which I could replace it, would be sufficient for an article. If you can babelfish the Italian version, just to see its proportions, there is not really a lot to say about: it is merely a technical expression in Italian administrative law, it only recalls no more than 5-6 articles in a few administrative acts. If you find it is interesting, I will do it :) --Altreali (talk) 19:06, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

PS: In Italy the expression is also used for political purposes, because of certain proposals (especially by Lega Nord) to create accessory police forces (and volounteer forces too) to contrast serious problems of criminality (an electoral spicy topic here); at the moment there is nothing but generic proposals. This is why in Italian the expression has a certain popularity and deserves an article in that version of the Project. --Altreali (talk) 19:14, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:31, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Murder of Russel Timoshenko

Hi all. After nearly three months, one of my pet articles, Murder of Russel Timoshenko (police officer), is finally getting its GA review. There are some things that need to be addressed before it's passed, so if you have time to spare, I'd really appreciate the help. I have sporadic Internet access at the moment, so it may be hard for me to quickly bring it up to the reviewer's standard's, but I'll do my best. The reviewer is putting it on hold for a week or so before passing/failing it. Thanks.—DMCer™ 03:18, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Update: After some work, it passed its GA review.—DMCer™ 03:35, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

The Officer's Guide to Police Pistolcraft nominated for deletion

Hi there. The Officer's Guide to Police Pistolcraft has been nominated for deletion. My understanding as a layman is that the book is a notable text in the context of firearms training for law enforcement organisations. Would anyone from this project care to either (a) comment in the deletion discussion for or against keeping it, (b) improve the article, or (c) tell me I'm wrong and wasting my time, so I can go to work on something more deserving? Thanks! - DustFormsWords (talk) 03:24, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

RCMP

The RCMP article is quite long, I suggest that the NWMP, one of the forces that was merged to form the RCMP, be restored to its own separate article. I have already made this suggestion at WP:CANADA, and have placed a split template on the article.

Please discuss this at Talk:Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

70.29.210.242 (talk) 11:54, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Law Enforcement IRC Channel

I propose adding an IRC channel for WikiProject Law Enforcement, as has been done for several projects (see WP:IRC). This is primarily for real time collaboration on articles for project members. The name #wikipedia-en-le seems appropriate. Project leaders should be given control access, as is the norm for Wikipedia IRC channels. --→James Kidd (contr/talk/email) 07:22, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

I've got no problem with it myself, though I don't know the first thing about IRC. SGGH ^ping! 09:44, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Rob_Wainwright (Europol)

Hi, I'd be grateful, if someone could take a look at the above article. Thanks. -- Wo st 01 (talk | rate) 19:28, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

FAR

I have nominated Texas Ranger Division for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 02:07, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Smokey Bears: need photo of a highway patrol officer in a campaign hat

One of the iconic uses of the campaign hat is as headgear for many highway patrol divisions (read the article if you want the history). And yet, I cannot seem to find a useable photo of a highway patrol officer wearing one, to illustrate that section of the article. If anybody here knows of one on Commons or has one to upload, please help out. Thanks. SBHarris 04:23, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Missing topics

I've updated my list of missing law enforcement articles - Skysmith (talk) 13:50, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Sarah frances

Above emailed me asking for good sources for researching something call the Special Tactics Group that NZ apparently rolls out. Anyone in the know? Please drop a line to her talk page and outfit her with some links. I don't have the info. Cheers. SGGH ^ping! 14:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Check needed: Council of Inspectors General on Integrity and Efficiency (CIGIE)

I've found this newly created article which is a verbatim copy from the CIGIE website. It's .gov and therefore public domain, but not adequately attributed. This is not my area at all, so you might want to check whether it duplicates or significantly overlaps with existing WP articles. Note it is also completely unwikified.

– Voceditenore (talk) 18:32, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I've put it to Wikipedia:Content noticeboard. I think it is incredibly bad form, the author is blocked already for actual copyright violations and I think it might fail WP:N too. SGGH ^ping! 18:49, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

They've tagged it with an attribution note, removed some copyvio from other contributions. All sorted. Thanks for flagging it up. SGGH ^ping! 13:34, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Opinion of Project members sought

Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Medieval Weaponry. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 08:30, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Template:User Law Enforcement

FYI, {{User Law Enforcement}} is being requested to be renamed, see Template talk:User Law Enforcement.

76.66.193.119 (talk) 19:42, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia and the FBI logo

It would appear from articles in both printed and electronic media that the FBI General Counsel and Wikipedia General Counsel are in a battle over use of the FBI logo on Wikipedia, with the FBI officially noticing wikipedia to remove it. Perhaps PatchBook was right?  :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.77.158 (talk) 07:06, 4 August 2010 (UTC) — 71.162.77.158 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Nebraska merger

Please contribute to the discussion at Talk:List of law enforcement agencies in Nebraska#Merger. Uncle G (talk) 10:13, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Law enforcement articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Law enforcement articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Sunday, November 14th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of November, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

If you have already provided feedback, we deeply appreciate it. For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 16:34, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

New user & prod'ed article

I'm copying this notice from the talk page of a new user. I'm split 50-50 on the proposed deletion: there may be enough to meet the WP:GNG, on the other hand, WP:1E may apply as well. Cheers. Haus^Talk 22:34, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

The article Brian Harris (Sheriff's Deputy) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Insufficient notability. Other than his death in the line of duty, there is no claim to notability whatsoever.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Safiel (talk) 04:28, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Have endorsed PROD. Fails to meet GNG. ninety:one 22:43, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Code 3 Response suggested move to Code 1 Response

Discuss at requested moves. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 09:20, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

2 Military Police Unit (Canada) & 3 Military Police Unit

2 Military Police Unit (Canada) and 3 Military Police Unit have been requested to be renamed. 184.144.163.181 (talk) 03:52, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Law Enforcement related topics are being discussed on another board

Wikipedia crime, fraud, and law enforcement articles (Pearlasia Gamboa, Donald Trump, Howard Hughes, Louis Lesser, United Assurance Company Limited, the Dominion of Melchizedek, etc., and the Gamboa-Pedley-Rooks Crime Ring) are being discussed HERE. 64.134.232.253 (talk) 14:34, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Wyatt Earp GAN

Wyatt Earp was listed as a GA in April, then went through a GAR and was delisted. It is now going through another GAN. Wyatt Earp is one of Wikipedia's most popular articles and is on an important and complex topic. The GAN is on an initial seven day hold while the reviewer checks sources. Meanwhile there is some work to be done on trimming back excessive detail, and on making the article flow more by reducing the amount of subsections. See Talk:Wyatt Earp/GA3 for more detail. SilkTork *^{Tea time} 20:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Not listed. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 11:59, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Law enforcement in Ireland

This article needs to be seperated into two , and catergory links changed aswell . It gives the impression that the two police forces operate in the state of Republic of Ireland due to lack of links - I know in the article it mentions otherwise but if you search "law enforcement in Northern Ireland" you end up here but if you search "law enforcement in the republic of Ireland" you get nowhere . The Catergories at the bottom of the page red link "Ireland" . The other Law enforcement articles are done stsate by state except for this one .Murry1975 (talk) 10:40, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Corrections nominated for deletion

One of the members of this WikiProject has done that. Have mörser, will travel (talk) 17:15, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

ClueBot III

The ClueBot III archiving seems broken. It's archiving discussions after a few hours (see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law Enforcement (edit | project page | history | links | watch | logs)), so the settings are all wrong, and it's moving them to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law Enforcement/Archives/, which is an odd location, and does not match the MiszaBot archival location. I've commented it out, so someone from the project can fix it. 76.65.128.132 (talk) 06:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

It's probably me cocking it up. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 19:46, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Someone might want to merge /Archives/ into /Archive 10 (the correct archive) and then either delete, or redirect it to this talk page (or the archive index, which doesn't seem to exist at the moment). 76.65.128.132 (talk) 04:25, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Sanford Police Department (Florida)

As a result of the resent shooting in Florida, I have started a page on this little PD. I hope it is of interest to you. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 03:46, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Documenting "Public Leaders" of Law Enforcement

I realize that most of the documenting I've done in law enforcement have been about police misconduct. Someone called me on this, and I realized they have a valid criticism-- most cops are heroes, but we often spend most of our time documenting police misconduct, rather than good conduct.

I believe we should undertake a project to create biographies of all "public figures" in law enforcement. Most of the bios would and should be stubs-- Name, office, picture. But overall, our neutrality requires it.

My question is-- who is a public figure? Obviously, elected officials are public figures, top cops are public figures, while undercover officers are decidedly not public figures. Who in between do we think is a public figure? --HectorMoffet (talk) 22:11, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

My opinion would be that heads of police forces with 1,000 or more sworn officers would be worthy of biographies, plus deputy and assistant heads of considerably larger forces. For instance, it is my contention that the Commissioners, Deputy Commissioners and Assistant Commissioners (i.e. generally the six top officers) of the London Metropolitan Police are automatically worthy of biographies, but that is a very large force (20-30,000 officers). See Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis, Deputy Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis and Assistant Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis for links to my biographies of these individuals. For British county forces, almost all of which are at least 1,000 strong, generally only the chief constable, with possibly the deputy and assistant chief constables for the larger forces. For the old British city forces, only the chief constables of the larger cities (e.g. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester etc), whose forces were equivalent in size to modern county forces. The notability of more junior officers or the heads of smaller police forces would be judged on a case by case basis. For instance, it is certainly not true (as some have claimed in the past) that all American chiefs of police and sheriffs are notable. The majority head forces that are far too small to make them notable. Generally only individuals that are likely to be mentioned in the national press should be worthy of an article purely by virtue of their office. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Things get substantially more complex in the US, because you can have county, city, state, and federal levels, all with semi-autonomous powers. So, you have situations where an office holder may have only a minority of forces under their control, but exert 'legal force' over a very large population. So, I suspect a better metric will be the number of people in the jurisdiction, rather than number of employees. --HectorMoffet (talk) 18:21, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. Police chiefs usually only head a particular force and the size of forces is usually proportional to the population they police. I don't think there's a substantial difference between notability levels. The head of a major state agency, like a state police force, highway patrol or criminal investigation bureau, would generally be notable (although some states also have smaller specialist law enforcement agencies which wouldn't be). The head of a federal agency of any size would generally be notable (although there are a number of small federal agencies that wouldn't be). County sheriffs and police chiefs and city police chiefs and elected commissioners would only be notable if their department was of substantial size. Heads of specialist police departments (like port, university and park departments) wouldn't generally be notable except in exceptional cases. No difference from any other country. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:25, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Merge comment request - City guard

Are City guard and Watchman (law enforcement) the same thing? SHould they be merged? Please comment at Talk:City guard D O N D E groovily Talk to me 02:25, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Responded on talk page. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 11:37, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Question re: Mess dress article

Should the Mess dress‎‎ article come under you project, it has a couple of paragraphs discussing the use of mess dress by British and Australian police constabularies? --Thefrood ^talk 19:28, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Lists of cases of police brutality

Please see the discussion at Talk:List of cases of police brutality#Requested move on whether to use the word "alleged" in the title of that and related lists. – Fayenatic London 16:42, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Puerto Rico municipal police

Please have a look at:

• Puerto Rico municipal police

and help expand it.

I'm not interested in this subject and will therefore not participate in this collaboration.

—Ahnoneemoos (talk) 17:34, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

IRS CI

I believe the IRS CI page is badly written and carries very less info.if someone can help me i will help.(Harishrawat11 (talk) 09:16, 3 December 2012 (UTC))

itd india

is incometax law enforcement a law enforcement,if it does not have police officers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harishrawat11 (talk • contribs) 10:28, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Stonewalling nominated for deletion

The article Stonewalling has been nominated for deletion. Participants of WikiProject Law Enforcement may like to contribute to the discussion. Bazonka (talk) 21:19, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Include biography on executioner?

Have found article on Franz Schmidt, chief executioner of Nuremberg 1578-1617, who left copious diary of his performed tasks for the state. I am planning to expand that article by compiling detailed statistics of his 360+ executions, along with mentioning in some detail notable cases he had. Would that qualify to include the article in the Law Enforcement Project? Arildnordby (talk) 13:54, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Tom Parry Jones

Kind of related to law enforcement so I added the project template to the talk page.--ukexpat (talk) 21:08, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

TAFI

Hello, Please note that Poaching, which is within this project's scope, has been selected to become a Today's Article for Improvement. The article is currently in the TAFI Holding Area, where comments are welcome about ideas to improve it. After the article is moved from the holding area to the TAFI schedule, it will appear on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Today's Article for Improvement" section for one week. Everyone is invited to participate in the discussion and encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thank you, TheOriginalSoni (talk) 11:12, 26 January 2013 (UTC) (From the TAFI team)

Patrolling

Patrolling is a military article at present, but patrol is a military and policing article. Shouldn't Patrolling also be a policing and military article? -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 22:40, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Can't they be merged? S.G.^(GH) _ping! 13:42, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Leaforstubimage.jpg

file:Leaforstubimage.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 17:09, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Empowering statutes?

Just an idea I had, what do you all think about including the statute that empowers the particular agency. Such as state statute or the section of the federal code in the info box on articles? --Cameron11598 (Converse) 03:29, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Depends how many articles there would be per agency, to be honest. I'm not as familiar with US law - are their individual articles for each state? And what would you include in the UK? Everything is regulated by PACE but there's also common law, the Criminal Law Act, Human Rights Act and so on. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 13:40, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Two suspects wanted by the FBI for the bombing.jpg

File:Two suspects wanted by the FBI for the bombing.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 05:02, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Jutte

Jutte has been requested to be renamed, see Talk:Jutte -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 22:59, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

The scope of Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor is under discussion, see talk:Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 04:44, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

BaltimorePoliceBadge.png

file:BaltimorePoliceBadge.png has been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 04:12, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

File:BaltimorePoliceBadge.png has been renominated for deletion -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 05:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Shah Commission files

• File:Shah Commission Interim report 1.pdf
• File:Letter for declaration of emergency.png

have been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 07:37, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

ParisPoliceLogo.jpg

image:ParisPoliceLogo.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 06:38, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Law enforcement templates that were being made by Pee_Tern - looking like they may be deleted

I've been watching user:Pee_Tern in the faint hope that he may return to answer a question at some point. So I spotted a couple of notifications that might be of interest to members of this wikiproject. Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Pee Tern/Sandbox/Template/Infobox Corrections agency/doc (which affects this)and Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Pee Tern/Sandbox/Template/Infobox Probation agency/doc (which affects this)

I think Pee_Tern may have completely abandoned Wikipedia (for whatever reason in September 2009) he seems to have been a pretty skilled template generator - (it's one of the things I'm hoping to ask him about) so I do not expect he'll be around to comment on whether the deletion is sensible.

I had a quick check on the things that may be deleted, it looks like a big chunk of work, and it looks like it is something to do with WikiProject law enforcement, so I thought I'd come and mention it in case someone here wants to rescue it. Perhaps it should be in main space? EdwardLane (talk) 09:07, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Ah looks like this may be a lot less work than I realised - and may just be a small tweak to infobox law enforcement, so I'll strike this. feel free to delete/archive this section, sorry for generating clutter on your page

EdwardLane (talk) 09:19, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

The Office of the Whistleblower(SEC) Symbol.jpg

image:The Office of the Whistleblower(SEC) Symbol.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 06:19, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Not anymore! S.G.^(GH) _ping! 14:05, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Sidhatfield.jpg

file:Sidhatfield.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 03:27, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Sock puppetry to achieve a false consensus on the SWAT article

Previous consensus at the SWAT article was that linking to Special forces and special operations was no applicable. Periodically an IP comes in and tries to enter those changes. Last time, his edit warring got carried away and the article was semi-protected until December. Now an IP has started a !vote on the talk page and so far, all the "support" is coming from IP's in the same Chinese city with similar edit histories. Some outside views would be helpful. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:16, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Allegheny County Medical Examiner

Hi all, this newly created article has been nominated for deletion, given that it serves a major metro area (Pittsburgh) and has had 2 recent very notable experts as ME I thought it should be created. Please share your thoughts here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegheny County Medical Examiner and constructive additions to the article are always welcomed. Thanks in advance! ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 05:06, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been featured

Hello, Please note that Poaching, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of Today's articles for improvement. The article was scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing! Delivered by Theo's Little Bot at 02:52, 24 July 2013 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team

Punjab Highway Patrol.jpg

image:Punjab Highway Patrol.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 04:42, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Category:Police misconduct

A few CFDs I started on police misconduct were no consensus, and basically, my contention is that "police misconduct" has been misapplied with respect to "Category:<X>-ian police officers convicted of murder" and with respect to the inclusion of Gestapo activities as the only articles in Category:Police misconduct in Germany. My belief is that war crimes and murder are more than "police misconduct" - most of the other appearances of this in other cats are for corruption and bribery. Therefore, I would like some consensus from this project on the matter. There are a few related and concurrent questions at hand, and I'd like to know what the project consensus is:

1. How broadly is police misconduct defined?
2. Does it extend to those convicted of war crimes and murder (do they belong in this cat)?
3. Are war crimes (genocide in this case) and murder synonymous, or should they be separated?
4. Is it necessary to break down police misconduct cats by country, especially when WP:SMALLCAT or other WP:OC guidelines apply?
5. Do Gestapo-related police activities, regardless of country, qualify as police misconduct?
6. Does lumping Gestapo officials in with those who were guilty of police misconduct outside of wartime cause a problem with the misconduct cat?

I know it's a lot of stuff, but I think all of these questions address different parts of the issue. MSJapan (talk) 22:35, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Punjab Police Pakistan Logo2.png

image:Punjab Police Pakistan Logo2.png has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 04:57, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

SFSD lo-res patch.jpg

File:SFSD lo-res patch.jpg (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 07:21, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Missing topics page

I have updated Missing topics about Law Enforcement - Skysmith (talk) 10:50, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives

I have nominated FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Neelix (talk) 20:47, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Archived some threads

I've archived some inactive threads to subsections which were notifications about discussions that have since been closed. — Cirt (talk) 09:05, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Declining death rates of police in the USA

• Pearce, Matt. "33 cops killed by gunfire in 2013, the lowest number since 1887." Los Angeles Times. December 30, 2013. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:14, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Being British, 33 seems pretty scary to me! -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:46, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Popular pages tool update

As of January, the popular pages tool has moved from the Toolserver to Wikimedia Tool Labs. The code has changed significantly from the Toolserver version, but users should notice few differences. Please take a moment to look over your project's list for any anomalies, such as pages that you expect to see that are missing or pages that seem to have more views than expected. Note that unlike other tools, this tool aggregates all views from redirects, which means it will typically have higher numbers. (For January 2014 specifically, 35 hours of data is missing from the WMF data, which was approximated from other dates. For most articles, this should yield a more accurate number. However, a few articles, like ones featured on the Main Page, may be off).

Web tools, to replace the ones at tools:~alexz/pop, will become available over the next few weeks at toollabs:popularpages. All of the historical data (back to July 2009 for some projects) has been copied over. The tool to view historical data is currently partially available (assessment data and a few projects may not be available at the moment). The tool to add new projects to the bot's list is also available now (editing the configuration of current projects coming soon). Unlike the previous tool, all changes will be effective immediately. OAuth is used to authenticate users, allowing only regular users to make changes to prevent abuse. A visible history of configuration additions and changes is coming soon. Once tools become fully available, their toolserver versions will redirect to Labs.

If you have any questions, want to report any bugs, or there are any features you would like to see that aren't currently available on the Toolserver tools, see the updated FAQ or contact me on my talk page. Mr.Z-bot (talk) (for Mr.Z-man) 05:13, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

West Midlands Police Museum editathon

Wikipedians are invited to an editathon at the West Midlands Police Museum, Birmingham, England, on Saturday, 15 March 2014. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:18, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

A reminder: the event is this coming Saturday, and a few places remain. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:47, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Metropolitan police images

I've been in correspondence with the Metropolitan Police (the police service for London, England) over the last few months, discussing the possibility of them open-licensing some of their images - not least the scenic (as opposed to scene-of-crime) pictures taken from their helicopters, and/ or images posted to their social media accounts.

They have decided that they so not wish to do so on a blanket basis, but say that they are willing to consider requests to do so for images in an individual basis. You may send requests to: DMC-Mailbox-.PressBureau-DMC@met.pnn.police.uk Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:39, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Fulton County Sheriff's Office (Georgia)

Gentlefolk, I direct your attention to this article. It seems to lack any cites and has a personal greeting from the sheriff. It seems to have been written by the PIO. I will try to deal with it as time allows, but since it is your bailiwick, I thought to mention it. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 15:10, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject Law Enforcement At Wikimania 2014

Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to:
Project leaflets
Adikhajuria (talk) 16:38, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Where would this information go?

I found an editorial:

• Alexander, Michelle. "Why Police Lie Under Oath" (Opinion). The New York Times. February 2, 2013.

Editorials may be used to source opinions and/or analysis but not necessarily hard facts. Anyway, where would this info go? WhisperToMe (talk) 08:37, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Also:

• Lee, Timothy B. "Here’s why cops should be required to wear a lapel camera while on duty." The Washington Post. October 10, 2013.

WhisperToMe (talk) 00:32, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

"Police power"

The usage of pagename Police power (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is under discussion, see talk:Police power (United States constitutional law) -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 06:07, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Icelandic police star (logo).jpg

The file Icelandic police star (logo) being used in National Police of Iceland, an article listed as being within the scope of your Wikiproject, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. More information on the file description page. All concerned are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you object to the listing for any reason. Thank you. - Marchjuly (talk) 01:42, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

"Highway patrol" and "Traffic police"

The meaning of "traffic police" and "highway patrol", and the name of the article "highway patrol" is under discussion, see talk:highway patrol -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 03:34, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/SecureState

Dear security experts: I'm not sure that I understand what this company does, but this old AfC submission will soon be deleted unless someone takes an interest in it. Is it a notable topic? —Anne Delong (talk) 22:45, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Police Brutality articles

Is this WikiProject the correct space to post article alerts / tag articles for police brutality? For example: Death of Eric Garner(?) Thanks, OR drohowa (talk) 22:59, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

It most certainly is. - SantiLak (talk) 04:00, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Discussion about creating a 2014 civil rights protests in the United States article is happening here: Talk:Death of Eric Garner#Proposed Split.

WikiProject X is live!

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

List articles, red links, and notability

PaulinSaudi and I have run into a difference of opinion regarding List of law enforcement agencies in Pennsylvania. He has put a considerable amount of effort into adding entries for every such agency in the state. The vast majority of these are red links.

Citing WP:WTAF, I advocate removing entries which do not yet have articles. Failing that, it would be best to unlink any which don't clearly meet notability guidelines for organizations.

Paul contends that all law enforcement agencies are notable, and that there is value in including all Pennsylvania ones in the list, along with links. Can we find consensus on the best way to handle this? Nick Number (talk) 18:32, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

I am an inclusionist. As Nick mentioned, I think all police agencies should have an article. I could accept the idea of unlinkng the red links (although I see no reason to do so). Not mentioning departments we know are out there seems to be A Bad Thing.

All in all, I am amazed how hard it is to find all the police departments in a state. There are scads of them, and I have yet to find a good list for any state. My work on the Pennsylvania list has been to produce a model for all the other such lists. Therefore, Nick and I value your comments. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 06:21, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

SWAT article

There is a discussion going on at the SWAT article that may be of interest to this project.[1]. Niteshift36 (talk) 15:12, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

• This article has more discussion on the talk page that could be of interest to the projuect. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:17, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

City Hall Security listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for City Hall Security to be moved to City Hall Security (Boston). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 22:48, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

United States v. Ramsey (1926) FA nomination

United States v. Ramsey (1926) has been nominated at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United States v. Ramsey (1926)/archive1 for featured article. The case is about the Osage Indian murders in the 1920s and one of the first murder investigations of the Bureau of Investigations, which later became the Federal Bureau of Investigation. If interested, please stop by and add your comments, either for, against, or neutral. GregJackP Boomer! 19:28, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Dissolution of ACPO

Following the dissolution of ACPO in the UK, and the creation of the National Police Chiefs' Council, all of these articles need to be re-examined and brought up to date:

• National Counter Terrorism Security Office
• National Extremism Tactical Co-ordination Unit
• National Police Air Service
• National Public Order Intelligence Unit
• National Domestic Extremism Team
• Vehicle Crime Intelligence Service
• Counter Terrorism Internet Referral Unit

-- The Anome (talk) 15:20, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Articles for deletion

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rock Hill Police Department (South Carolina). -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:49, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

The notability of these and similar entities is also being discussed in the List articles, red links, and notability section above. Nick Number (talk) 19:48, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Split article

The article Sex offender, which is tagged as being of interest to this project, was split today. The new article is Sex offender registries in the United States. If this article is also of interest to members of this project, feel free to tag it as well. Etamni | ✉ | ✓  02:31, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Category:Filmed deaths to do with law enforcement officers

Category:Filmed deaths to do with law enforcement officers, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 September 26#Filmed deaths to do with law enforcement officers on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. -- Chamith (talk) 13:56, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Template:UK police rank history

What is the meaning of the various colours of the bars of this template? Thanks. --76.14.45.22 (talk) 02:01, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

RfC

B An RfC: Should the article mention that the firearm used in the shooting is a SIG Sauer P320? has been listed at Shooting of Samuel DuBose. Interested editors are invited to comment.- MrX 02:08, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Surveillance blimp

There's a new article at surveillance blimp, as police forces have used surveillance blimps, this seems to need expansion to cover policing. -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 05:58, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

"Cyberweapon"

The usage, topic, and naming of Cyberweapon is under discussion, see talk:cyberweapon -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 09:36, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Possible Guidelines?

Coming across police departments, I noticed there isn't a guideline or a layout for articles in this category. Is there a possibility in the future one will be added to help shape and form Police Department articles that are a mess? Adog104 ^{Talk to me} 04:15, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

This seems like a good idea, maybe we should try and figure out one. - SantiLak (talk) 04:34, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, we should create one. Adog104 ^{Talk to me} 18:31, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Also, since I'm seeing this somewhat, should fallen officers names be listed in any articles relating to PD, like some have or should they just have a table of contents listing what had caused death, like in some PD articles have. Adog104 ^{Talk to me} 22:07, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Article alerts

Please see section added to this project at: wp:WikiProject_Law_Enforcement#Articles. Ottawahitech (talk) 20:48, 2 January 2016 (UTC)please ping me

"Crime Investigation Department"

The usage and topic of Crime Investigation Department is under discussion, see Talk:Crime Investigation Department (India) -- 70.51.46.195 (talk) 08:38, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Move proposal for the French RAID page

Hello, I have made a move proposal for the page : Research, Assistance, Intervention, Deterrence to RAID (French Police unit). Please note this is in fact an amended proposal since my first proposal - for RAID (French Police) - was found ambiguous. If you'd like to vote, you can go to Talk:Research, Assistance, Intervention, Deterrence#Requested move 17 April 2016. Thanks and regards, Bruno --Domenjod (talk) 14:53, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Mass redirects

User John from Idegon went on a spree last night, redirecting many agency articles and nominating some LE articles for deletion. May be worth looking at some of those redirects. Niteshift36 (talk) 15:07, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

RFC: Inclusion of vehicle use in crimes as part of vehicle articles

This RFC covers two automotive articles with similar disputed material.

• Should the Ford Ford F-650 medium duty truck article include a mention in the body of the text or via a see also link the Oklahoma City bombing?
• Should the Chevrolet Caprice article mention in the body or via a see also link the Beltway Sniper's use of a Chevrolet Caprice?

See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles#Request for Comment: Inclusion of vehicle use in crimes as part of vehicle articles. Felsic2 (talk) 00:44, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Requested move notice

Greetings! I have recently relisted a requested move discussion at Talk:2016 Yerevan hostage crisis#Requested move 17 November 2016, regarding a page relating to this WikiProject. Discussion and opinions are invited. Thanks, JudgeRM (talk to me) 18:06, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages

Greetings WikiProject Law Enforcement/Archive 11 Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:

• Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, Stevietheman — Delivered: 18:03, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Missing topics list

My list of missing topics about law enforcement is updated - Skysmith (talk) 14:15, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Upcoming "420 collaboration"

You are invited to participate in the upcoming "420 collaboration", which is being held from Saturday, April 15 to Sunday, April 30, and especially on April 20, 2017! The purpose of the collaboration, which is being organized by WikiProject Cannabis, is to create and improve cannabis-related content at Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects in a variety of fields, including: culture, health, hemp, history, medicine, politics, and religion. For more information about this campaign, and to learn how you can help improve Wikipedia, please visit the "420 collaboration" page.

---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:17, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Request for Comment - Plummer v. State

There is an RfC at Plummer v. State, dealing with the Internet meme section. Please visit and comment on the proposed language for the section. GregJackP Boomer! 04:07, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Request for Comment - Plummer v. State - 2nd Attempt

There is an RfC at Plummer v. State RfC, dealing with the Internet meme section. Please visit and comment on the proposed language for the section. This is revised from the first proposal. GregJackP Boomer! 16:48, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject Law Enforcement/Archive 11/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject Law Enforcement.

We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:

• The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
• The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
• The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject Law Enforcement, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:15, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

List of mounted police units

I have added a proposal at Talk:List of mounted police units#Criteria for listing a mounted police unit. The input of others would be appreciated. Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 13:14, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Killed vs Died (in the line of duty)

Seems there are many articles (mostly lists) where natural causes and accidents are painted as "killers", alongside the sort of killers who kill people. Widely misleading, even if technically accurate. If you tell the Average Joe a cop was killed, they'll wonder whodunnit. I suggest changing all "killed in the line of duty" article titles and leads to "who died in the line of duty" or "who died on-duty".

Take it or leave it. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:43, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Security contractor listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Security contractor. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Prisencolin (talk) 19:15, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Criminal_Investigation_Department

Another editor and I have noticed contradictory information in the above article. It originally stated that "The Metropolitan Police Service CID, the first such organisation, was founded in 1878". However, in 2013 another editor added "In 1854, with an increasing amount of detective work to be done, Nottingham Borough Police set up the county's first CID section", leaving the lede contradictory. The editor provided the Nottinghamshire Police website as a source, which does indeed state that its CID was set up in 1854: [2]

Could a knowledgable editor sort this out? --2.97.92.184 (talk) 15:19, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Need help finishing Article

Some of the descriptions for killings by Law enforcement still remain blank, itwould be nice if I could get help finishing them off please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_Kingdom#Since_2000

BSOleader (talk) 20:48, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

A check on the Special Deployment Commando article

Added some references and added a history on the Special Deployment Commando page 'cause they don't have any. Need someone to assess the German references since I used Google Translator to do it. Ominae (talk) 11:17, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Infobox law enforcement unit propose creation for a law enforcement unit - only agency available presently

There is no infobox for a law enforcement/police unit. There is an info box for a law enforcement agency Template:Infobox law enforcement agency but not for an individual unit. For example LAPD Metropolitan Division and New York City Police Department Emergency Service Unit uses the agency infobox which has superfluous information with agency overview, jurisdictional structure, etc.. Template:Infobox military unit is typically used by many law enforcement/police units such as Hostage Rescue Team, Special Task Force (SAPS), Grupo Especial de Operaciones, Special Duties Unit, Victoria Police Special Operations Group, etc.. . I propose the creation of an infobox that is similar to the military unit infobox from a law enforcement/police perspective.--Melbguy05 (talk) 12:32, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

I suggest showing an info box template when you got one. Ominae (talk) 21:14, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject

Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Law_Enforcement

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod ^talk 16:51, 3 December 2017 (UTC)