Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Western Australia/Archive 12

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{{Heritage places of Western Australia}} etc

WA editors are invited to comment at User_talk:Mitch Ames#source about aspects of {{Heritage places of Western Australia}}, and other WA templates that may require similar changes. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:16, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

It would be much better if it was here - as mitch is not the owner of wa heritage items,

the actual changes required are simply linked in with the new article about the National Trust - National Trust of Western Australia - and the more challenging - new template of Template:Heritage_places_of_Western_Australia JarrahTree 13:28, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

I think there are certainly issues with that template (it has articles of vastly different scope for different LGAs because no one ever agreed on a consistent approach/people actively opposed it), which looks very strange in one template of this sort. I think the whining about the definition/framing of Perth is very silly and the template is fine in that regard. I think the way Perth is framed in that template is fine. I also agree that this is the place for any discussion rather than Mitch's talk page. The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:28, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

As this is wikipedia, to actually check with the fellow editors is not as you frame it - please have some sort of respect for the people who follow your trail, trying to keep up with you. Perth and the issues around it is 10 years plus, and is not whining, by the way. JarrahTree 23:31, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I'm completely lost now. What are you talking about? The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:34, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

excellent, so are we at times, try your talk page. JarrahTree 00:07, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

It would be much better if it was here — There was already a discussion on my talk page - started by an editor other than myself - so I suggested commenting there to avoid fragmenting the conversation. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:58, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

As I said on Mitch's talk, I think Perth metropolitan region should probably be merged into Perth. Apart from the list of LGAs, there isn't that much content, and the geographical extent of the metro region is what we use as the scope of the Perth article, more or less (the ABS having different definitions of Perth being the main exception).
As for scope issues, that is something we can try to fix with page moves and editing, e.g. the requested move in the section below. - Evad37 [talk] 01:06, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

I feel like it's often helpful to have an article explaining changes in the formal understanding of metropolitan area - it might form the scope of the city article, but there's often stuff to be said that is helpful context would be WP:UNDUE for the city article itself. I'm confused as to why it matters for templates when they're functionally the same area though. The Drover's Wife (talk) 01:15, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Support retention of Perth metropolitan region very different from Perth.

- nothing to do with the city article - if it was only that simple - functionally? - my understanding from the information during the debates some years back about specifically the perth metro area - there were aspects in time that deserve drover's marvellous lga history touch to discern what the hell was going on in there, and it does deserve some examination and writing up. It possibly is not a good idea to have it as part of the city article as the city issue are very different from the metropolitian area - there are some tricky bits - from memory orderinchaos had a good handle on the machinations of the changes and boundary changes and how they fitted in time... JarrahTree 09:57, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

"Perth metropolitan region very different from Perth" — @JarrahTree: per [1], could you please give us an example of a place that is in one but not both of "Perth" (as covered by {{Heritage places of Western Australia}}) and "Perth metropolitan area", and also state whether that place is in any other of the regions listed in {{Heritage places of Western Australia}}? Remember that my original intent was to ensure exactly 100% coverage of WA in that template, with no overlap. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:16, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

I would strongly suggest that you have the tenacity and capacity to steer yourself through either the page and talk page histories, or the required information online or in catalogues of things other than oggle...

https://trove.nla.gov.au/book/result?q=metropolitan+perth

http://encore.slwa.wa.gov.au/iii/encore/search/C__Sperth%20metropolitan__Orightresult__U?lang=eng&suite=def

https://archive.sro.wa.gov.au/index.php/informationobject/browse?topLod=0&query=perth+metropolitan+

I am sure there is lots more... JarrahTree 11:31, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm fine with keeping a separate article if there's potential for much more content there, beyond what would comfortably fit in the main article. It isn't a big deal to me which article gets linked in navboxes. Some consistency would be nice if possible, unless there's a particular reason to use one or the other in a one or some templates, but not others. - Evad37 [talk] 04:14, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether this fits into this discussion but it is definitely related. On the level below Perth or Perth metropolitan region, there is an equal level of inconsistency. Have a look at Category:Local government areas of the Perth region of Western Australia. All the cities at this level have an article(as far as I can tell), but not all have their own category. For example, City of Armadale also has a Category:City of Armadale but City of Rockingham falls under Category:Rockingham, Western Australia, no Category:City of Rockingham currently exists. The same goes for South Perth and Kwinana, to name just a few. I think, these inconsistencies need to be fixed up, too. I'm never quite sure whether a category at this level is about the city or town or just the suburb of the same name, where applicable. Calistemon (talk) 05:58, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Meetup 66 & Know my name edit a thon

Next meetup is scheduled for Saturday 7th March at 10am at the Bayside restaurant Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/66, that is the cafe near the floating jetties in Matilda Bay.

Following the meetup you are encouraged to join us over at the Lawrence_Wilson_Art_Gallery

in the north west corner of the grounds of UWA - at the corner of Stirling Highway and Fairway, Nedlands. for the Know my name editathon

Gnangarra 06:41, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Notice board editing

Thanks to those who remember to add their new articles, could we please agree (as a very disorganised herd of cats on this notice board group) try to keep current month additions on until the end of the month - the nowiki message at the top is worded to say a month old can be deleted - however, with the loss of a valuable space to keep tabs on the western australian project activity, this notice board is a valuable record. So as we are in February, regardless of the size it gets to, could we keep current month groupings intact until the end of the month, thanks... JarrahTree 06:29, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Highway to hell

In the lead-up to the Perth Festival closing event, Highway to Hell, I see a few media outlets referring to the Canning Highway as being the inspiration to the song and stating that it is/was the nickname of the road. Does anyone have a definitive source to prove or disprove either claim? Hack (talk) 03:22, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

• yes it was the inspiration for the song, Gnangarra 02:01, 25 February 2020

it is a but more complicated that, the resonances between usages - the biography of Bon Scott = Walker, Clinton (2007), Highway to hell : the life and death of Bon Scott (Rev. and updated ed ed.), Picador, ISBN 978-0-330-42363-2 {{citation}}: |edition= has extra text (help), as well as the Fremantle Tram, jarrahtree (2011), Another Ironic New Year placement in 2011, retrieved 25 February 2020, and the article about the album has no allusions to Canning Highway, but actually the struggles with touring...Highway_to_Hell. So there are likely to be other etymologies for the phrase, but this is what is easily accessed.JarrahTree 03:54, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Meetup reminder

Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/66 is on tomorrow (Saturday) 10am, followed by Know My Name Edit-a-thon Perth - Evad37 [talk] 00:27, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

• Looking forward to catching up with everyone Gnangarra 03:09, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

meetups suspended

please note: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Resources/COVID-19_Notice wiki club west meetings are suspended. Thanks JarrahTree 00:34, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Western Australia draft pages

The following is a list of draft pages that may be relevant to this project (includes a link to Western Australia, Perth, or one of the regions) - Evad37 [talk] 10:59, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Another alternative: Search for drafts containing "Western Australia" - Evad37 [talk] 17:02, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

The listing is now available at Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia/Draft articles where it can be kept updated, which is now linked from the To Do list along with a couple of search links - Evad37 [talk] 11:25, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Last updated on Sat, 07 Mar 2020 10:55:29 +0000. Regenerate this table or edit the query.

Title	Page ID	Namespace	Size (bytes)	Last change
Meg Coffey	55384032	118	4827	20191105062845
DJ Jaysnbrwn	55963912	118	6414	20191008060037
Anthony Luvera	57671548	118	21616	20190907142059
List of The Cure concerts	58689622	118	84372	20200106041716
Misagh Norouzi	58944260	118	9233	20200211125047
List of comic festivals and alternative comics conventions	58996952	118	4431	20200204101243
The Shepherd's Hut	59843444	118	6300	20200307095836
Eurokars Group	59974225	118	4018	20190905111952
Carnarvon Airport	60000042	118	2356	20191015072421
Tropical cyclones in 2002	60042497	118	24256	20191209152812
Irvin Phillips	60246870	118	3362	20191108192047
Adultshop.com	60270266	118	2427	20190831210156
Cape to Cape	60327384	118	25545	20191016171930
Lithium Mining in Australia	60458278	118	34327	20200303085042
Inner City College	60560127	118	2543	20200224151503
Climate change denial in Australian federal politics	60582409	118	18666	20190921144952
Music Industry of Australia	60620689	118	45128	20191217034030
Destinations	60713907	118	13914	20191214035925
Baillieu Limited	60812802	118	9468	20191001223656
Redkite	60850166	118	21463	20191028055348
List or largest settlements in the World	61105535	118	337610	20191013033529
Sentence reduction programs - Australia	61175121	118	23295	20191205192232
Great Australian Railway Journeys	61266837	118	3943	20200120205126
Brett Leigh Dicks	61499555	118	7601	20191212225950
Hunter Giles-Shanley	61552287	118	2296	20190916085533
Bloom	61576993	118	2924	20191117224425
Katy Hudson World Tour 2020-21	61594099	118	8059	20191214035929
Romeo Harris	61646732	118	1876	20200103061444
Jarod Mellor	61760960	118	2332	20190912090825
Mackenzie Morgan	61789775	118	2149	20191026214139
E. L. & C. Baillieu	61805339	118	9305	20191124020908
Luke Toki	61806431	118	4453	20191227025538
List of homonymous cities	61828447	118	28454	20191016100034
Windjingayr	61913134	118	3106	20191224070041
Larinyuwar (Cone Bay) Community	61913296	118	2402	20191226144012
Sailing in Australia	61928601	118	7973	20200302230224
Rapture Tour	61999054	118	4469	20200228231535
Australian Survivor	62019085	118	5673	20191226095248
David John Carlson	62085474	118	5494	20191017122417
Caitlin Revell	62112681	118	1206	20191020163059
Silent Knight	62209851	118	12206	20200224065445
2019 WBSC Premier12 rosters	62264530	118	41772	20191115075841
2020 Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Season	62300867	118	5393	20200303054629
VROMO	62400535	118	11454	20200223215344
Stephenson Avenue	62419459	118	3308	20200101082424
Thenjiwe	62439644	118	20736	20200203053136
2019 Australian Figure Skating Championships	62444767	118	27869	20200127000015
MonsoonSIM	62549339	118	5877	20191211082252
Master Fastest Times: World Championships - Restricted	62610035	118	43997	20191218023716
Master Fastest Times: Continental Championships - Oceania	62610451	118	40160	20191218031832
Applecross Cricket Club	62617751	118	5298	20191223033233
2019–20 Melbourne Victory W-League season	62627678	118	18031	20200105194624
Petr Zuska	62660120	118	15872	20200210171709
John McGregor	62677042	118	1625	20191228082857
Fremantle Christian College	62691447	118	9538	20200215061741
William Kennedy	62716969	118	3362	20200102052745
2019–20 Melbourne Stars season	62749135	118	32828	20200209002114
Sasha Zhoya	62768611	118	11103	20200305174543
Herman Hoeyeraal	62811249	118	2108	20200117052947
2019–20 Brisbane Heat season	62980953	118	15021	20200203094636
2012–13 Brisbane Heat season	62981602	118	9520	20200131023530
Hammondville Public School	63035233	118	19159	20200223223714
Bedshed	63035879	118	2540	20200207010953
Vernon Ah Kee	63036164	118	37622	20200224235902
List of National Soccer League Clubs	63037491	118	22214	20200302081521
Blue light disco	63045538	118	4087	20200207174007
Urban and regional planning in Western Australia	63080353	118	12967	20200304002907
Jekel	63083314	118	4726	20200211140415
Intellichoice	63195923	118	5718	20200224184605
Jo Woodfield	63197359	118	3340	20200224140848
Quinns Baptist College	63249879	118	4348	20200304204831
ContiTech	63261824	118	22246	20200304083018
List of Group of Eight (Australia) law schools	63287396	118	13798	20200306055657
British Territorial Army Order of Battle 1947	63296310	118	54731	20200307033235
Power Play Initiative	63304045	118	5701	20200307081437

SLWA

With all that happening the State Library of Western Australia is opening up new online resources, unfortunately you must become a member which is free and access to some items are limited to only people in Western Australia. see https://slwa.wa.gov.au/explore-discover/eresources/enewspapers-and-emagazines Gnangarra 07:48, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Somehow SLWA lost my old details and I couldn't log in to the electronic resources. I signed up again a couple of weeks back and got a card in the mail in about a week. Hack (talk) 05:06, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Signing up online lets you in within a couple of minutes anyway Gnangarra 06:14, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

A new Perth suburb is born - Lake Coogee

Just for every bodies information, according to the City of Cockburn, a new Perth suburb was born on 30 March 2020: Lake Coogee. This may affect a few articles in the scope of this project. Calistemon (talk) 21:47, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

the area has nyungar story lines, and includes Clarence where Peel initially established himself, in 1829 Gnangarra 06:21, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Ahh somnolent silent project watchers

There is a small problem with St_John_of_God_Subiaco_Hospital - as a recent editor has quite rightly noted the article is beset with PR type material that hops up into articles all over the country.

Any help in increasing relevant items that provide an adequate background of good RS - it would be appreciated. Due to its relevance and presence in the Subiaco community, it deserves more than a redirect to another PR sodden item... JarrahTree 05:10, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

I've had a crack at it, cutting a lot and adding some article links. But it still needs more third-party citations. Meticulo (talk) 07:44, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Historically it was of great significance to the catholic church of the time - Goody, Launcelot Sir; Court, Charles Sir, 1911-2007; Forde, Martha (1981), Salute to a catholic hospital : a transcript of speeches at the blessing and official opening of St. John of God Hospital, Subiaco, Western Australia, 1st May, 1981, s.n.], retrieved 12 June 2020{{citation}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link) at the 1981 new building opening... JarrahTree 12:39, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Flag of City of Perth

Moved from Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board

 – – McVahl (talk) 12:40, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Can anyone confirm the design of flag of the City of Perth?

As per Council Policy Manual, the official City of Perth flag has a red cross of Saint George on a white background with the City’s Coat-of-Arms superimposed in the centre of the cross.

A recent edit shows update on the flag in City of Perth article. Although an image from this reference used in the said article has a white disc bearing the City's coat of arms, I don't see such description in the policy manual. – McVahl (talk) 12:40, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Having a look at photos of Council House, they seem to be using the version of the flag with a disc.[2][3] Hack (talk) 03:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Digital access to The West Australian and Sunday Times

Does anyone have any idea how to access The West Australian or the Sunday Times from around the turn of the century, particularly 1999 and 2000? I used to have access through Factiva with my NLA card but this seems to have disappeared from their site. Hack (talk) 05:18, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

not a lot of hope Seven West has been taking access to their outlets off line, not even trove has any since the 1940's-50's. If you know a specific date it might be possible to access hard copies via SLWA Gnangarra 15:35, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

NLA has free Newsbank access now, seems like The Sunday Times, but not The West, is included. The-Pope (talk) 15:25, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Local government areas of Western Australia map

The map at Local government areas of Western Australia could do with an update but I don't know how to do this myself. I noticed the following outdated LGAs:

• Shire of Broomehill–Tambellup is still displayed as two individual shires, Shire of Broomehill and Shire of Tambellup
• City of Greater Geraldton, still displayed as Shire of Mullewa and City of Geraldton-Greenough
• Shire of Narrogin, still displayed as Town of Narrogin and Shire of Narrogin
• Shire of Northam, still displayed as Town of Northam and Shire of Northam
• City of Karratha, still listed as Shire of Roebourne

This is just what I could spot. There might be more, and some of these changes have taken place rather a long time ago. Calistemon (talk) 15:22, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Wunaamin-Miliwundi Ranges

In case you missed the King Leopold Ranges have been officially renamed to Wunaamin-Miliwundi Ranges, I have finished off fixing all the articles pointing to the old name. see https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-03/wa-king-leopold-ranges-renamed-wunaamin-miliwundi-ranges/12416254 Gnangarra 05:43, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Gnangarra I just done Commons as well, and good riddance to the old name! Calistemon (talk) 14:19, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Editors are invited to comment at Talk:List of name changes due to the George Floyd protests#Wunaamin-Miliwundi Ranges. Can anyone provide a reference that explicitly says that the Ranges were renamed (or the renaming hastened or facilitated) because of the George Floyd protests? Mitch Ames (talk) 06:13, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Map of State Register of Heritage Places requiring photos

Sourced from the coords on this page: User:Calistemon/State_Register_of_Heritage_Places_requiring_photos (@Calistemon:) and using the new All named coordinates feature of {{maplink}}:

- Evad37 [talk] 04:51, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

There is also . A very incomplete list at this stage, however. Calistemon (talk) 07:41, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

There might be a bug in the first map. I did this:

1. Click the map, which takes me to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Western_Australia#/map/0
2. Zoom in on Comer St, South Perth/Como, to the point where scale marker shows 100m
3. Click on the blue marker, to display Pagoda, Como, 31.990915°S 115.855236°E
4. Click "External maps" in bottom right corner, then Google Maps
5. Google Maps shows at https://www.google.com/maps/place/31%C2%B056'23.3%22S+115%C2%B056'01.5%22E/@-31.9398062,115.93375,10z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d-31.9398062!4d115.93375?hl=en and the marker is in Redcliffe, nowhere near the Pagoda.

I get similar problems with Kingstown Barracks on Rottnest - Google Maps goes to the same place in Belmont/Redcliffe, as does Open Street Map and Bing Maps. Same problem with Pale Moon, Firefox and Google Chrome.

Mitch Ames (talk) 08:17, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Similarly the second map always takes me to https://www.google.com/maps?ll=-27.42039384711022,116.9266275&q=-27.42039384711022,116.9266275&hl=en&t=m&z=6 (or same coords) on an external map. Mitch Ames (talk) 08:21, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, the "external maps" feature is a bit useless if the map contains anything other than a single point - Evad37 [talk] 08:43, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Reported at phab:T257137 - Evad37 [talk] 09:06, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Work-around (tested with Bing, Google, Open Street Map):

1. On https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Western_Australia#/map/0 zoom in, click the marker of interest to display name and coords
2. Select and copy (to clipboard) coords text
3. Click External maps, choose map service
4. Paste coords into choosen map service's search box to go to location
5. Adjust zoom as required

Mitch Ames (talk) 11:37, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

• its still useful in giving one a sense of where the missing places are so we can fill the gaps. Gnangarra 11:26, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

  If desired, I (or anybody else who feels like it) can move them from my user space to the project space, eg. making them Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia/State Register of Heritage Places requiring photos/Perth metropolitan and Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia/State Register of Heritage Places requiring photos/Country WA. Calistemon (talk) 11:30, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

That would be very useful JarrahTree 11:36, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Moved. Calistemon (talk) 11:59, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

all the perth's

discussion requiring a wider view - please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Greater_Perth JarrahTree 13:07, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Burringurrah (Mt Augustus) listed at Requested moves

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What's a CBD?

The comments above led me into an exploration of the vagaries of the geography of central Perth. James Street, Northbridge is mostly in Northbridge but has a small section, including a mall, in Perth (suburb). Does the street article belong in Category:Streets in Perth central business district, Western Australia‎ or some other yet to be created category? Hack (talk) 14:54, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

very good point - there has been discussion in the past about the boundaries of the CBD - the discussion might relate to what the city of perth has designated in their tourist maps for insance, or what landgate might have identified in their mapping - such as the annual perth road map. Some of the editors who had helped in this issue havent been seen on this page in up to 3 or 4 years, or longer...

James Street has never been considered as part of the CBD from what I have seen to date JarrahTree 15:07, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Interestingly, the Perth page defines the CBD as an area west of Kings Park, south of the railway line and north and east of the river. Not cited though. Hack (talk) 14:23, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Are tourist attractions necessarily landmarks?

Editorial opinion is sought at Category talk:Tourist attractions in Perth, Western Australia#Context. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:07, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Joondalup (WA) articles

Need some advice with three Joondalup articles and see the possibly of merging info of at least two. The three articles are the Joondalup (suburb), Joondalup and City of Joondalup. Shouldn't the information in Joondalup be merged into Joondalup (suburb) or vice versa and one deleted, while the City of Joondalup article is a stand alone article and is a summary of the LGA of Joondalup and all its suburbs and what infrastructure etc. they bring to the city. Regards. Conlinp (talk) 11:01, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Have a look at similar mixes in the metro area, there are suburb/city mixes and separation. As to whether some stand alone examples /combinations are in some way preferable - it would be good if other editors who watch were able to respond ... JarrahTree 11:26, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Agreed, stand-alone Joondalup should be deleted and any relevant information merged into the Joondalup (suburb) and LGA articles. Adondai (talk) 12:12, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

It would be hoped that apart from Perth - there is a standard suburb/city mix -

• Perth - in all its glory

• Perth (suburb), the Western Australia city's central business district
• City of Perth, a local government area of Western Australia
• Division of Perth, a Western Australian seat in the Australian House of Representatives
• Electoral district of Perth, a seat in the Western Australian Legislative Assembly
• Greater Perth, a Western Australian statistical area
• Perth County, Western Australia, a former cadastral unit of Western Australia
• Perth Metropolitan Region, a Western Australian urban planning region

• Fremantle
• Fremantle_(suburb)

• City_of_Fremantle

• Armadale

• Armadale,_Western_Australia

• City_of_Armadale

Which means the locality/city mix for most of those places other than Perth is fairly standard (havent checked all the metro area)

JarrahTree 12:33, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

No real opinion on the existence of the "regional city" article (the suburb and LGA are obvious keeps), but back in May someone inappropriately changed the intro line from Joondalup is a regional metropolitan city to Joondalup is a northern suburb. The-Pope (talk) 12:16, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Love's Bus Service Queensland listed at Requested moves

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Engineers

I created Arthur James Hillman tonight based on work from Engineering History WA where works are cc-by-3.0sa which is compatible licensing. Hillman is interesting in that there two Older generations with notable relationship to WA history as yet unwritten as well. Beside the water quality issues at Brookman Dam, the Mt Hawthorn/Yokine resevior had a major incident as well lots more out there to work on. Gnangarra 13:17, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Gugadja listed at Requested moves

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Coral Bay

This article appears to have been the subject of an assignment to dramatically expand it, based on articles about much much larger settlements ... with ... interesting results. I've tried to clean it up (see my edit summaries) but any further help would be appreciated. Graham87 17:16, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Boola Bardip

I was able to go through Boola Bardip last weekend and take photographs, I have created the commons category https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Boola_Bardip and moved the construction photos to a sub category. As per the agreement for entry the photographs from inside will be uploaded tomorrow. I suggest reorganise the Western Australian Museum into it being about the body as defined by the act, its history. A key component will be to have the WA State Museum up to its closure in 2016 as one article and Boola Bardip as another, as this also reflects the structural change to WAM moving all its research, storage and admin functions to the Welshpool site and operating the 6 sites as separate entities. Gnangarra 03:16, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree in that the new building needs a separate article from the organisation, but suggest using the full official name, WA Museum Boola Bardip, for article and category names. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:42, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

As promised internal photos are now uploaded and available. Time to coincide with official opening of 10am :D Gnangarra 02:07, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Toodyay District High School student elections

Opinions are sought at Talk:Toodyay District High School#student leader elections, re the inclusion in the article of a recent student election. Mitch Ames (talk) 10:07, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Is Gina Rinehart an heiress?

There seems to be an ongoing edit war between IPs as to whether Gina Rinehart is an heiress - see article revision history - with no current discussion on the talk page. WA editors might like to comment. (I don't have an opinion either way, but it keeps popping up on my watch list.) Temporary protection on the article might be required to stop the EW. Mitch Ames (talk) 22:22, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Most of the conversation was conducted 5 years ago, and the points made then suggest there is an aspect of the nature of the transition between her fathers death and her subsequent becoming the owner/director. It would be worth considering here due the actual talk page being a very low watch count... JarrahTree 06:44, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

redundant legacy items that are inadequately tagged as not used

Oh somnolent and quietly snoring noticeboard of unanswered questions and bereft of answers,

(viz. such a crowd)

there is a small problem:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_County,_Western_Australia

see also

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q15643559

and associated and related and un-referenced items...

The suggestion might be for some very inquistive editor to find a valid reference,

and something like a flashing sign:

this form of land designation is long past, and not used, and redundant

any thoughts ?

Best wishes of the season to those lurkers who never answer, reply or leave their mark... JarrahTree 06:39, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Indeed not only somnolent, but absent and perhaps departed ? JarrahTree 10:56, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

For the totally uninterested - the set of county articles were created by a sockpuppet of a notorious earl era editor - perhaps the chances of adequate sources/proof of existence might be difficult ? JarrahTree 10:59, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

References:

• https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-230631043/view
• https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/7896659
• https://www.amazon.com/WESTERN-AUSTRALIA-showing-counties-Railways/dp/B009ZV177A

Mitch Ames (talk) 11:45, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Yeahbut, one thing to know when they were existing in the 1880's - when did they get closed down or become disused. ?? JarrahTree 12:14, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Drafts due for expansion or chop?

Thanks to Evad for bringing this lot to our attention...

It would be very useful if any watchers might have opinions about items in this list: -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Western_Australia/Draft_articles

JarrahTree 09:25, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Template:Public high schools in Western Australia

Hello,

I have been looking at Template:Public high schools in Western Australia and was wondering what schools need to be included. Is it all public high schools, including District High Schools and Remote Community Schools? It seems to be excluding those schools at the moment. Is this by design? There are 51 District High Schools in WA, and 21 Remote Community Schools (most, but not all of which serve students at or above Year 7), so if they were to be added, it would increase the size of the template significantly. I'd like to know what other people think. If it should be left as is, without DHS's or RCS's, or with them added in.

Another thing I want to discuss is the regions listed. The Department of Education has different regions to the ones normally used and in the template currently. Should this be left as is, or changed to the DoE regions (map can be found here).

A list of all schools and their DoE region can be found here.

Steelkamp (talk) 05:51, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

There was an attempt in Regions_of_Western_Australia to standardise the regions for general usage - and explain all the variants in the article - it would be good if you could follow that...

The det map is close but not the same as the regions in the regions in the main article...

The main problem is the metro regions - no one in 15 years has made any attempt in the 'regionalisation' of Perth - if you are able to work on that one, that would be very interesting... JarrahTree 06:25, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Queens of Cue

Editorial opinion is sought at Talk:Cue,_Western_Australia#Usage_of_the_term_"Queen", as to whether it is appropriate to bundle together as "nuances" (or even to mention at all) several unrelated items that happen to have the word "Queen" in them, when the use of that word in not specific to Cue. Mitch Ames (talk) 04:20, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Aboriginal communities

Of the 109 identified aboriginal communities, a significant number have as part of their name 'community' and trove references, and other on line sources have the qualifier.

It follows then, that he precedent of changing just 'one' means all other 108 are immanently due for change, for some obscure grammatical reason.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Muludja

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Aboriginal_communities_in_Western_Australia

If there are any watchers left for this singularly silent and comatose noticeboard who are prepared to comment (even the instigator of grammatical change) - it would be good for the record.

JarrahTree 23:48, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

"Consistency" is one of the WP:CRITERIA to be considered when naming articles, but I'm not seeing much in that category. For the ones with community in the titles, most don't appear to have that term in the the bolded part of the lead sentence, and the capitalisation is quite inconsistent e.g. this sequence from the K section: - Evad37 [talk] 00:26, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

I suggest that WP:COMMONNAME and WP:OFFICIALNAMES are more important that consistency - but determining whether or not "Community" is part of the name is not always easy. A quick look through the reports at https://www.dplh.wa.gov.au/information-and-services/state-planning/aboriginal-communities/aboriginal-community-maps/layout-plans suggests that I was lucky finding an explicit "common name" and "formal name" for Muludja ([4], page 7).

Koorabye's report does not explicitly define a name, but uses "Koorabye" or "Koorabye community" (in body text, ignoring obvious title case, such as page header). Karaluni mixes "Karalundi", "Karalundi community" and "Karalundi Community" (again ignoring instances where title case could be expected).

Of course, Aboriginal groups are not "all the same", so we should not assume that all such communities share a common naming convention. Although it's possible that there is such a convention defined by an independent source somewhere, in which we case use it.

However Wikipedia does have a well-defined guideline that says we should not capitalise the word "community" unless it is part of the proper name (whether it be a common name or an official name), regardless of how strong a sense of community each group of Aboriginal people feels.

In any case, having determined what the "name" of the community is - specifically whether or not that name includes the word "Community" - each individual article should be internally self-consistent, in that the bold format and capitalisation in the lead sentence should match the article title. Subsequent use should also be consistent, although I would expect that (after the first sentence) "Foo" would be a reasonable abbreviation for "Foo Community". (In some specific cases "the Foo community" would be OK, if referring specifically to the people of Foo Community, rather than the entity Foo Community itself.) Mitch Ames (talk) 01:59, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

After seeing the two responses (thanks folks) hopefully others might offer comment as well at some point... as there are significant issues arising from the points raised so far. JarrahTree 08:15, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Yarloop Workshops and fires

Comments from other editors are requested at Talk:Yarloop Workshops, regarding an unexplained reversion [5] of valid edits [6][7].

Related comments on editor talk pages: [8][9]. Mitch Ames (talk) 14:25, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

small milestone

The WikiProject Western Australia has close to [10] 18,000 articles - approximately allowing for various tabulating and counting quirks (within 200 +/- of total): -

QLD has 20,000 [11]

WA has 18,000

NSW has 17,000 [12]

Vic has 11,000 [13]]

SA has 9,500 [14]

TAS has 6,000 [15]

NT has 4,000 [16]

ACT/Canberra has 2,000 [17]

Comparing the relarionship between editing numbers and population of the particular states and territories at [18], and making allowances for the variations and differences between editing communities, it would appear that the WA project participants have willingly or unknowingly achieved a significant position within the Australian editing community. Admittedly sheer numbers do not make allowances for quality or depth, but are a rough guide. JarrahTree 07:39, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Aboriginal communities

please see : - Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia/Aboriginal Communities

or : - Talk:Aboriginal_communities_in_Western_Australia

I disagreed with the recent removal of this discussion by JarrahTree - because it included posts that are less than 24-hours old, so is (as far as I'm concerned) still a current discussion - and asked him to restore it or (use appropriate move templates and move it to another talk page) . The response was "fix it yourself", so I did, but it was deleted again. I do not want to engage in an edit-war, but ask that some other editor restore it.

(I'm happy for this post be deleted as part of the restoration of this section.)

Mitch Ames (talk) 13:15, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I strongly object to Mitch resurrecting an over 5 year issue regarding Aboriginal Communities on this page. It was placed on a separate page so as to not interfere with the project. It is not current, it is a 5 years old issue. It needs a separate page. JarrahTree 13:30, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion in question – [19], about whether the word "community" is part of the name – was started by JarrahTree, 2021-01-30, just over one month ago, and most recently edited (before deletion) yesterday. The only references to an unrelated discussion (which was not about the names of the communities) from 5 or 6 years ago were inserted by JarrahTree [20][21]. Mitch Ames (talk) 00:16, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

That is one way of looking at it - as always I beg to strongly differ as to the perception of the argument and the contents. JarrahTree 02:25, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

WA Election dates

Are Western Australian election dates fixed to the second Saturday of the month? I am of the belief that the answer is yes, but User:Superegz is adding to 2025 Western Australian state election that the election can be any date before that. Yes, the governor can call the election whenever they want, but by convention, they call it for the date set out by the Electoral and Constitutional Amendment Bill 2011. Some other opinions would be good. Steelkamp (talk) 03:36, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes but the same bill says out what happens when the Parliament is dissolved earlier:

64. Issue of writs for general election

(1) If an Assembly is dissolved before 1 November last preceding its expiry year, the Governor shall cause a writ for elections in all the districts to be issued not later than 10 days after the dissolution.

~~

(2) Subsection (3) applies to any election other than an election held as part of a periodic election.

(3) The date fixed for the polling in an election to which this subsection applies shall be a Saturday that —

(a) is not less than 21 nor more than 45 days after the date of nomination; and

(b) is an available day.

The WA constitution:

3. Governor may fix place and time of sessions, prorogue Houses and dissolve Assembly

It shall be lawful for the Governor to fix the place and time for holding the first and every other session of the Legislative Council and Legislative Assembly, and from time to time to vary the same as he may judge advisable, giving sufficient notice thereof: and also to prorogue the Legislative Council and Legislative Assembly from time to time, and to dissolve the Legislative Assembly by Proclamation or otherwise whenever he shall think fit.

This is essentially the same position that the fixed aspect of the Canadian Parliament is in yet their next election pages is not so definite. Superegz (talk) 03:46, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

User:Steelkamp, I suggest that you read some of the Hansard from 2011 when the fixed term bill went through Parliament here: [22]

Here are some quotes:

Mr W.J. JOHNSTON: Clauses 4, 5 and 7 are really the guts of this bill. Premier, I want to get on record the difference between a general election and a periodic election. Clause 4(1) defines “election year”, “expiry year” and “periodic election”. Subclause (2) changes the definition of “general election”. When we go to clause 5—I know we are not on that clause yet, but I am just trying to clarify—as I understand it we could have an election for the lower house that is not a periodic election. I want to make sure that we understand what that is about, and get on the record the difference between the two. The Premier could explain now, or when we talk about clause 5, how we could end up with a lower house election separate from an upper house election.

Mr C.J. BARNETT: I might struggle with this. If there is a decision to go to an election after 1 November— say, the Parliament dissolves or government collapses, or whatever else—it will be a periodic election. That will mean both houses go to an election. If the government collapses—we all pray that does not happen!—prior to 1 November —

Mr M. McGowan: Of the final year?

Mr C.J. BARNETT: Yes. If a government was to collapse prior to 1 November, there would be a general election for the lower house and nothing for the upper house—it would stay on that date. If a government was to collapse before 1 November, there would be separate dates for the election of the lower house and the upper house.

Mr M. McGowan: There would be two elections?

Mr C.J. BARNETT: There would be two, yes.

Mr M. McGowan: So they could get quite out of kilter?

Mr C.J. BARNETT: Yes. If a government collapses after 1 November, or some event occurs, the elections would be held together. I guess that would mean if there was an election in December, that would be both houses together. If a government was to collapse before 1 November, there would be a lower house election; and then presumably, at a fixed date and time, there would be an upper house election. I am advised that is a disincentive for calling an early election or contriving one.

Mr W.J. JOHNSTON: Thank you very much, Premier. Let us assume there was to be an earlier election because, as the Premier described it, Parliament becomes unworkable or whatever and there is no choice. When would the next Assembly election occur? How do we arrange to get it back into line?

Mr C.J. BARNETT: I am advised that if that were to happen, there might need to be further legislation to actually get back onto the second Saturday in March, otherwise we would lose the fixed four-year term, as this term is a four-and-a-half-year term. I am advised an amendment would have to be made to the act during the period of that government to get it back on track. I thought it would have been automatic, but it is not. It is not automatic because we cannot interfere with the Governor’s role in that sense.

Mr W.J. JOHNSTON: I am sorry to labour the point, but it is of course quite important and the Premier can understand why I raise it. An early election is possible, but the political consequences would be serious because the two houses would be out of alignment.

Mr C.J. Barnett: Yes.

Mr W.J. JOHNSTON: When we talk about a fixed date for the election, we are talking about a fixed date for the upper house election only. Everybody at the table is nodding.

Mr C.J. Barnett: Yes; that is correct.

Mr W.J. JOHNSTON: The lower house continues to be on a flexible date, but—I will stop after the word “but” to put it into context. Under the current act, I refer to a general election held before 1 July; for example, looking back to 2008, as in the first half of 2008, the date of that Parliament was, as I understand it, February. However, if the election were held after 1 July, the date is the next February, which is, for those who had not realised, why this government will serve a four-and-a-half-year term. By this legislation, the 1 July date is effectively moved to 1 November. Therefore, if Parliament is dissolved from 1 November, we go to an election with a fixed date for the upper house, being, I think, the second Saturday in March 2013. However, there is no legal issue. If the house becomes unworkable, and a Premier says, “I don’t have a choice” and —

Mr C.J. Barnett: Yes—for example, if the budget bills are defeated.

Mr W.J. JOHNSTON: Yes; the budget bills are the classic example, or it could be that the house passes a resolution to reduce the budget by $1, which is, I think, the classic no-confidence motion. The Parliament can still then be dissolved, but only in our chamber, and our colleagues in the upper house will continue to be ensconced until their election. Is it also the case—I understand this to be true, and am happy for confirmation— that we are not providing any mechanism for the solution of a disagreement between the houses? In the federal Parliament, if a bill passed by the House of Representatives is twice defeated in the Senate, it can go to a double dissolution and both houses go. We are not providing for any double dissolution, so Parliament will continue to have this potential issue hanging over it by which if the upper house is controlled by a majority that is not the government in the lower house, there will be no way of resolving that particular question.

Mr C.J. BARNETT: In the first part of his comments, the member is correct; that is, there is no mechanism for double dissolution, and that issue is not affected in any way by this bill—but the member’s account of the process is correct.

~ ~ ~

Mr C.J. BARNETT: I have been advised that the issue goes to the Western Australian Constitution, according to which we can, through electoral legislation, have a fixed date for the Council, but we cannot fix the date for the Assembly; to do that would require constitutional amendment and all the processes that that entails.

Mr M. McGowan: But why does that stop the Council going to an election at the same time as the Assembly if the Assembly went to an early election?

Mr C.J. BARNETT: I am advised that it relates to the Governor’s powers, and we cannot infringe on those. Also, from a policy point of view, the point of this amendment is to have fixed elections for both houses. It is designed to ensure that in virtually all circumstances, there will be a fixed election on the second Saturday in March for both houses. That is the intent of the legislation.

Mr M. McGowan: Therefore, it is designed to stop a government going early for political advantage.

Mr C.J. BARNETT: Yes.

Mr M. McGowan: And you’re saying that because the Council cannot go earlier than 1 November, that is an incentive to the Assembly?

Mr C.J. BARNETT: Yes; the intent of the legislation is to have a fixed date and a disincentive for a government to call an Assembly or general election before —

~ ~ ~

Clearly, the "fixed" nature of WA elections is not as "fixed" as people imagine. Superegz (talk) 06:39, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

"Also, from a policy point of view, the point of this amendment is to have fixed elections for both houses. It is designed to ensure that in virtually all circumstances, there will be a fixed election on the second Saturday in March for both houses. That is the intent of the legislation."

Only in exceptional circumstances will the election be held on a different day. This is not like federal elections where it is the default that the election is on a day chosen by the Prime Minister (who advises the Governor General). May I add that there are provisions for the election to be held on the third Sunday of March under exceptional circumstances. Steelkamp (talk) 14:28, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Mandurah railway and bus station

I recently redirected Mandurah Bus Station to Mandurah railway station, because the current bus station there is the same as the one built there in 2003, so there was no need for a separate article on the bus station.

The former article for Mandurah Bus Station stated "The original Mandurah bus station was replaced by a new facility on 17 September 2003." This implies there was a previous bus station in Mandurah prior to 2003. However, I could not find any evidence of this, so I did not mention it in the additions I made to Mandurah railway station.

I was wondering if anyone here has any sources on a bus station in Mandurah prior to 2003. Then those sources can either be used to add information to Mandurah railway station, or alternatively make a new article on that former bus station. Steelkamp (talk) 06:55, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

This article suggests that park/kiss and ride facilities weren't previously available, so the old Mandurah Bus Station may have just been a bus stop. Anyone got a <2002 UBD lying around? The-Pope (talk) 15:31, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

FYI, 2004 UBD p525, empty plot of land. 2000 UBD, empty plot of land. 1999 Gregory's p 515, also empty. No notation on the three maps to any future project. When examining Google Maps 2021, extensive street changes compared to the three years. Conlinp (talk) 05:08, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, but we know that the current bus & train station was new in 2003 (train in 2007). What we don't know is what/where the pre-2003 bus station was in Mandurah. I'm thinking it wasn't really a station, but just a bus stop. If you can look on the 1999/2000 maps for any hint of a bus station, probably closer to the foreshore, but maybe near Mandurah Forum? The-Pope (talk) 09:05, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

No bus stations or stops shown on the maps for Mandurah, though all other bus stations are shown for other metropolitan Perth areas. Nothing around Mandurah Forum either. A search of the WA Government Media Statements does tell us and you were close so here goes:

1. https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/Court/1999/06/Introduction-of-an-additional-bus-for-services-between-Mandurah-and-Perth.aspx
2. https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/Gallop/2002/02/Mandurah-bus-services-given-$1million-boost-by-Government.aspx
3. https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/Gallop/2002/04/Upgrades-to-boost-Mandurah-bus-services.aspx

Regards Conlinp (talk) 11:01, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

interesting meteoroligical phenomenon

Cyclone_Seroja

The western australian component of this impending phenomenon might be worth watching, for those interested in the ramifications of the uncertainty of the existence of the more than one tropical systems Fujiwhara effect - the tropical cyclone usual suspects are usually good with local information (see Timor in the above article for instance) other ways of looking at the coming days events:

http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/meteye/

https://earth.nullschool.net/

https://www.metoc.navy.mil/jtwc/products/sh2621.gif does not look good

http://www.bom.gov.au/wa/warnings/

batten down folks JarrahTree 08:41, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

List of State Registered places, or not

Following on from User talk:Calistemon#List of State Registered places, or not ...

Some of the "List of State Register of Heritage Places in Shire/City of Foo" articles include a list of places that are city/shire listed, but not state registered. [23] finds seven, but [24] (in particular the text "X places are heritage-listed ... of which Y are on the State Register) suggests the possibility of expanding this.

I suggest that either the non-state-registered lists should be separate articles, or the existing articles should be renamed to more accurately reflect their contents, e.g. "List of heritage listed places in ...". It may then also be appropriate to rename Category:Lists of State Register of Heritage Places, or simply move everything into the existing Category:Lists of heritage places of Western Australia, or ...?

Does anyone else have an opinion on the matter? do you expect to expand significantly more articles in the same manner? Mitch Ames (talk) 03:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

This situation arose out of a few editors broadly working on the same thing with quite different and very strong opinions on how to categorise these things, and eventually everyone else just throwing up their hands at trying to make it consistent. It is tricky: the State Registered places are a list with a clear inclusion criteria and notability; the "heritage places" lists allow for the inclusion of other significant (WP-notable and non-notable) buildings. If I look at some of the specifics of, say, List of State Register of Heritage Places in the Shire of West Arthur (in the link you gave), it seems both better placed at "heritage places" (because 57 of the 60 are not on the State Register) and a logical way of organising "heritage places" lists. The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:21, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

To answer Mitch's question, yes, I'm hoping to gradually expand the articles with non-state heritage lists. I don't much care what you name the articles but I don't suggest the articles be split into state registered versus heritage registered lists as most LGAs have only a very small number of state registered places. Two separate lists here would be overkill. I advice however to avoid creating a mess like List of heritage places in Fremantle (This is a list of heritage places in the City of Fremantle that are listed on the State Register of Heritage Places) or List of heritage places in the City of Albany (This is a list of places listed on the Western Australian State Register of Heritage Places located in the City of Albany) which is actually completely wrong as these lists are a wild mixes of both types of listing, despite the statement. We should stick with clear inclusion criteria for the lists and not randomly mix them like in these tow articles. Calistemon (talk) 05:34, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

playing with the template and categories, while not being part of the creation of the items, is a little late, most of the items have been showing up in the new items part of the western australian noticeboard for some considerable time, with the one creator simply going through the whole state - local government and regional divisions, more or less single handedly. To start 'playing' with the items now seems a bit late in the piece, more relevant and cogent would be consideration of the two identified items of Albany and Fremantle as to the fate of such collections. Taking in mind Drovers comment about the veracity of notability of items that might be found on local inventories, as opposed to the clarified state level lists, there are far more far reaching concerns than playing with templates and categories and titles before the full range is complete.

There seems to be in this conversation no acknowledgement of the fact that there are up to four levels of criterion that are possible - national heritage/the national trust lists/state heritage/local inventories - that needs to be taken into consideration as some items might belong to all or have variations.

This would require an appraisal of the info available about some properties having unique combinations of variations of ascribed notability - take for example: -

Mundaring Weir - parts of the precinct are managed by the National Trust

there is nothing about being made a site having Australian Engineering Heritage Award

it is on the register of the National Estate

parts of the extended precinct have items that are Municipal Inventory and State Heritage Inherit

in the 1990s it (the weir) ceased to have Water Authority facility to allow overflow and now has mixed signage at the location as to being called the Weir, but some Water signs have Dam - potentially confusing

In quite a few sites in the state of Western Australia, there may well be quite a few variants that to take the evidence as what it might have ascribed to it from online sources may say one thing, while on the ground places like Mundaring Weir have contradictory and confusing meanings between the online and real life signage. I think we should be very careful about trying to separate into 'streams' of this or that. Where possible a lot more annotation is required for some sites/places to explain the complexities, rather than any narrowing down to fit something artificial like a category/template change that has insufficient between the lines documentation for the unwary. JarrahTree 08:56, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

• With List of heritage places in Fremantle see note on the page: Specifically this is intended to include 252 places, derived as follows: Search http://inherit.stateheritage.wa.gov.au/public for places with "Fremantle" in their location, with "Limit my search to the State Register" checked). As of 2017, this yields 266. Of these 16 are in East Fremantle, to be subtracted. It includes one in South Fremantle and nine in North Fremantle, which are kept. Add two found with search on "Beaconsfield". No proper hits on "O'Connor", "White Gum", "Gibson Park", "Samson", or "Hilton" are found. This yields grand total of 252, as of 2017. Note, without limiting to State Register, there are many more: 3859 Fremantle hits, 152 White Gum Valley hits, 297 Beaconsfield hits, etc. That was the best resource at the time, if you dont like fix it, inHerit was the go to place but that list is not being directly funded anymore its up to the LGA's and other groups to update it, some LGA's have chosen not to maintain it and keep their own list inhouse. Every site on that list has some form of notable heritage listing. Gnangarra 14:34, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

That is a very relevant point as to why we have to be careful with any overviews that do not understand the point made by Gnangarra - that inHerit and LGA records are inherently open to question, and not necessarily the final answer on many sites.

The point that inherit might not be a reliable or viable source simply reinforces the issues raised above about Mundaring - on the ground, and online - do not necessarily correlate - and to over rely on any one way of checking, is a folly. Callistemon's work of recent and Gnangarra's work of some time back now, provide the project with a brilliant framework from available information. JarrahTree 20:27, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

• one thing I do note is that these list are nice, but they Wikipedia may no longer be the right place to start with them, with the development of Wikidata and the capacity to use automation to check, maintain, and cross reference that data. From there we can auto generate lists here on Wikipedia that are maintainable in better quality and relevance as list are added, removed, or altered ie upgraded from local to state or state to national. Gnangarra 02:46, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

I think that there is a place of the lists here on wikipedia are very useful in that they are first stop for most readers/editors - as to introducing the functionality of the ties in with wikidata - it would appear most readers of this noticeboard/editors in the Australian project are not regular editors in wikidata, so its a moot point, so far. Maybe a series of intro sessions at meetups when they recommence (weekends or thursday nights) to encourage the cross wiki experience, might help gain a wider audience, and participation, and even understanding. JarrahTree 04:08, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

I'm curious and would be happy to learn as there may be some great potential there, especially if this functionality could automatically add the coordinates to items and auto-update. , would you be able to create a sample? The List of State Register of Heritage Places in the Shire of Jerramungup would be a good example and starting point as it is quite a small one. Could you create a wikidata based list to replicate that one? Calistemon (talk) 04:30, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Second McGowan Ministry

Hi. I noticed that since the recent swearing in of the Second McGowan Ministry, most of the articles about Western Australia cabinet positions, as well as a number of articles about the previous or new ministers, have not been updated. Is anyone here interested in doing this? Lennart97 (talk) 07:49, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Station article titles

Several IP's have been changing X railway station to X Station. I have changed these back (example diff here) due to it not conforming with the article title, but this raises an interesting point. The Transperth website shows that Transperth officially names their stations this way (Butler Station, instead of Butler railway station). This makes sense too, as some railway stations have bus stations, they are not just railway stations (example: Whitfords railway station has a bus interchange).

I would like to propose that all transperth stations be renamed to conform with the Transperth official names. What does everyone think? Steelkamp (talk) 12:00, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

everyone? - this place has a sense of less than that. The problem with naming is the older naming Railway Station has generally been supplanted by Train Station and Station.

In view of the Transperth naming, which is both misleading and unhelpful when there are two modes of transport involved, I would suggest someone do a comparison with other states/cities in australia, which might elicit some sort of convention/precedence. There is nothing to stop wikipedia naming involving railway station - which is the older form, and having either in a lead sentence also known as, and a redirect for xxx station, so as to potentially avoid (hopefully) any lengthy and unnecessary conversation about nouns, capitalisation and all the rest. JarrahTree 03:17, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

I thought there were naming conventions but it looks like station names are all over the place. There is a stale proposal for an Australian and NZ station naming convention. Hack (talk) 06:44, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Looking at Wikipedia:Good articles/Engineering and technology#Rail bridges, tunnels, and stations, I can see that there is a mix of X railway station, X station and X Station. Looking at other Australian cities, they all use X railway station.

Using X station, we get the advantage that the names are more accurate because some stations have a bus interchange.

Using X Station, we get the advantage that it is the offical Transperth name for the station as well.

Steelkamp (talk) 08:15, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

The main issue is consistency - if there is a field of articles and categories for railway stations in western australia - by the general implied logic of consistency and standards - is they all need to be consistently the same - if there are no objections here or at a specific article - I would suggest they all need to be the same - the main thing would be to have aka parts of lead sentences, and where necessary, alternate name redirects. Where there has been failure to implement or agree on a standard in the past -that doesnt stop the wa project setting a standard - and in the lack of any objections in effect the rest of oz could be brought to the standard. JarrahTree 08:28, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

A page in CAT:WNC and (more specifically) Category:Wikipedia naming conventions (transportation) may be appropriate. See the latter for examples of other countries' "stations". Mitch Ames (talk) 09:13, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

I disagree with the proposal to change the names. Issues similar to the one the proposal raises are often raised on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains. The problem with the form "Foo Station" is that the word "Station" is inherently ambiguous: it could refer, eg, to a bus station, or to a train/railway station, or to a combination of the two, or to a work station, or, at least in Australia, to a cattle or a sheep station, or to a combination of those two, etc. Speaking generally, English Wikipedia articles about train/railway stations in the UK or Australia are therefore named in the form "Foo railway station", and that form seems to be generally accepted even for train/railway stations that have an attached bus terminal/stop/station, etc. When considering how English Wikipedia articles about WA train/railway stations should be named, several other points should be borne in mind. For a start, the subjects of the articles are not referred to uniformly even by their own owners/operators, eg, the PTA, which trades as both Transperth and Transwa, tends to refer to suburban stations as either Station or Train Station, but to the Kalgoorlie facility as Kalgoorlie railway station - see here for an example of the latter. Secondly, even if the owner/operator uses uniform descriptions, the general public does not necessarily use the same descriptions - whether the PTA likes it or not, many people, including web page authors who are not Wikipedia editors, use the form "Foo railway station" to refer to suburban train/railway stations in Perth. Thirdly, the articles about train/railway stations in WA are about facilities that in many cases are a century old or older, eg Claremont railway station, Perth was opened in 1881, and so whatever name by which the PTA might have called it, whether officially or unofficially, in the last 20 years or so is not decisive. In the end, the articles in question have been in existence under their existing names for quite a while, their names are not misleading or completely out of step with general usage, and therefore the names should probably remain as they are unless someone else can come up with some compelling reason to change them, and the editors involved in Wikiproject Trains do not object. Bahnfrend (talk) 14:06, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Request for comment: WAGR/Westrail merge

Hello. There is currently a pending merge discussion for the articles Western Australian Government Railways and Westrail, contributions at the discussion here would be appreciated. – Nick Mitchell 98 ^talk 03:43, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Canning Bridge railway station and Canning Bridge bus station

I have proposed a merge of Canning Bridge railway station and Canning Bridge bus station. The discussion is at Talk:Canning Bridge railway station#Proposed merge. Steelkamp (talk) 11:23, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

The Kids' Bridge

The Kids' Bridge is now open. A photo would be nice if anyone has the time and inclination to take some. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:27, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

I've uploaded some photos. They are in a commons category here. Steelkamp (talk) 10:27, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Events of Wiki Club West coming up

You maybe interested in some events coming up in the near future - an opportunity to meet fellow Wikipedians, as well as being involved in: -

—--

This Saturday - 14th August 2021

Wikipedia Annual conference - known as Wikimania

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/71

———

In September -

10th Anniversary of the Fremantle photo work:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/72

———

Both events also tie in with the extended 20th Birthday of wikipedia -

Celebrated in limited manner last Sunday:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/70

——— Any queries - please do not hesitate to contact on or off wiki About any aspect of the events

Thanks JarrahTree 07:24, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

New tables for railway lines

I would like to get some opinions on a new table I have been working on to replace the tables on Transperth railway line articles. I have created this one for the Joondalup railway line as an example. Benefits are that there is less use of colour, and the station code column is removed. Additions are a column for distance from Perth and a column for the date the station opened.

Key

Icon	Purpose
†	Under construction

Station	Distance from Perth		Fare zone	Suburbs served	Opened	Connections
	km	mi
Elizabeth Quay	-0.6	-0.4	1/FTZ	Perth		Bus transfers at Elizabeth Quay Bus Station Services continue on the Mandurah Line
Perth Underground	0.0	0.0	1/FTZ	Perth		Bus transfers at Perth Busport Train transfers to Australind, Armadale/Thornlie, Fremantle and Midland Lines
Leederville	2.4	1.5	1	Leederville, West Leederville
Glendalough	5.6	3.5	1	Glendalough, Osborne Park, Mount Hawthorn		Bus transfers
Stirling	8.8	5.5	2	Innaloo, Osborne Park, Stirling		Bus transfers
Warwick	14.5	9.0	2	Carine, Duncraig, Hamersley, Warwick		Bus transfers
Greenwood	17.7	11.0	2	Duncraig, Greenwood, Kingsley, Padbury
Whitfords	19.8	12.3	3	Craigie, Kingsley, Padbury, Woodvale		Bus transfers
Edgewater	22.9	14.2	3	Edgewater, Heathridge
Joondalup	26.2	16.3	3	Joondalup		Bus transfers
Currambine	29.2	18.1	4	Currambine, Joondalup
Clarkson	33.2	20.6	4	Clarkson		Bus transfers
Butler	40.7	25.3	5	Butler		Bus transfers
Alkimos†			5	Alkimos		Bus transfers
Eglinton†			5	Eglinton		Bus transfers
Yanchep†			6	Yanchep		Bus transfers

– Steelkamp (talk) 07:15, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Anything that removes the excessive use of colour is an improvement. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:20, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. The Drover's Wife (talk) 12:49, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

I've begun the process of replacing the tables. Steelkamp (talk) 09:00, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Joondalup merge without discussion

User:GenericWikiUser1 merged Joondalup and Joondalup (suburb) back in April 2021, and it appears there was no discussion about this. So I was wondering whether it should be reverted and discussed. Steelkamp (talk) 07:54, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

It looks like a redirect created rather than a 'merge' - some editors have aversion to qualifiers in titles, some the reverse - whether the issue is rules based or Australian wide convention is another issue, the quirks of place name titles are historically diverse - depending a lot on the editors who created the items in the last 15 years. Lack of discussion is a constant issue as well. The nub is in Perth - Perth CBD and Perth (suburb) and any other ways of visualising what might be called Perth could also be discussing/reviewed.

The good thing about redirects created is both versions are in view JarrahTree 08:05, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

GenericWikiUser's merge seems entirely sensible: there is no larger area of "Joondalup" beyond the actual suburb of Joondalup (apart from the LGA) which would warrant having a third article. It is a solution adopted in many areas where you have both a wider area and a specific suburb of the same name, but that wasn't the case here: the two articles covered exactly the same geographical area, as Joondalup makes patently clear. The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:36, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Current Afd relevant to WA project

Please note the current item: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mineral_Resources JarrahTree 06:46, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

The issue was resolved - as a keep JarrahTree 05:54, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Railway accidents in Western Australia

Anyone else concerned with this article. Many of the accidents listed have just 1 fatality, a pedestrian. I think the threshold for inclusion in this article should be higher than that. Especially as nowadays, most pedestrian fatalities are not reported on for fear of increasing the suicide rate. Steelkamp (talk) 14:11, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

• It's not a problematic as it looks, reading through the list the majority have some other aspect to incident, another vehicle, crossing behind another train, they were all attributed to something other than suicide. The list probably could do with a clean up and I know of few more incidents that arent listed. Gnangarra 17:40, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
• If it was as simple as that:

Rail Heritage Western Australia - their museum at Bassendean - has a table/list of all rail employees killed while in employment of the railways - parts of that list deserves inclusion as it reflects the dangerous work environment for some employees and the context - there's an open day (Railfest) there Sunday the 10th October (10am-4pm) - the list used to be displayed in the hall at the front - and most of those accidents on the list on display are notable for a range of reasons -

It is likely that the single pedestrian accidents can evolve from to herrypicking 'Trove' for accidents that have the pedestrian accidents is inevitable - most can be removed due to the lack of notability - and fit the problem raised by steelkamp above.

Checking the edit history of the article is telling - some effort was actually put into the detail of the more notable events some years ago - and there is probably a cut off point from that

Accident reporting in the last couple of decades is more complex since the transition from a single reporting authority and the rise of inter-state train movements - as Gnangarra might know some of the more recent significant accidents are not in the list - they are sometimes a year long event - the accident, the reports can stretch between the state based authority and the national body and final report can be longer:

The national standardising law was in place in 2015, and in some aspects WA the local body was not enforced until 2018

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau - https://www.atsb.gov.au/rail/ -

Only 2 current reports for WA in the first page - https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/safety-investigation-reports/?mode=Rail

Relevant for the WA is the notifiable occurrence with the https://www.onrsr.com.au/operators/compliance-and-enforcement/investigations

Some accidents are solely ONRSR, and substantial accidents are ONRSR and ATSB combined - some reporting for ONRSR is not as easy to find as the ATSB

Notable in WA accidents to stand alone notable articles are: Zanthus and Hines Hill - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Railway_accidents_and_incidents_in_Western_Australia

It is very likely some of the accidents in the list could be made into articles. JarrahTree 01:51, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Also to add to that we should not get too carried away with the perpetual western australian exceptionalism, all the other articles at other states projects have numerous issues as well, with railway accident articles being quite poorly created, and poorly maintained. Some do have sections - fatalities, injuries, and other - and some do not even have any lead or defining characteristic or scope in a lead paragraph... JarrahTree 02:06, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

— Agreed. A separate section for employees killed at work would probably be appropriate. But mentioning that list as the sole contents of the lead section is not appropriate, because the article scope is bigger than that. For now I've moved it to External links, but would be happy to see it moved back as a reference if a separate "employees" section were added (with a list, not just that one sentence). Mitch Ames (talk) 03:05, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Ten years ago the list was a pdf - the link is now dead and the pdf may be somewhere else on the website, it has not been checked. If anyone was at Sunday railfest - the possibility of the poster with the names being still in the front hall is a guess that it might be there still. As I have said the whole australian set of articles need work, again it might not be good to see a classic western australian exception set up - unless it was an improvement for which the the current set of other articles could have a benchmark example to improve from. JarrahTree 05:12, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

I have removed the ones from the list that are not important. Pretty much all car vs train, or pedestrian vs train. If someone wants to add them back, they should explain why each one should be included, because I can't see why a pedestrian being hit by a train is notable. Steelkamp (talk) 13:58, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Its the other way around - importance needs to be clarified, and context made very clear - how that is reached should be explained in the lead sentence, not here. JarrahTree 14:04, 15 October 2021 (UTC)