Talk:2024 Apalachee High School shooting/Archive 1

Archive 1

Name of perpetrator is Colt Gray

Name has been released from press conference 2601:800:8200:5A00:40F6:4A1C:2443:FEEA (talk) 20:38, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Demographics of suspect

A hot button point right now seems to be about the age of the suspect, right now a majority of sources are reporting that the suspect was taken in alive and is of school age but otherwise unidentified. It appears to be that those that identify the shooter as 14 are quoting a CNN update indicating that a "law enforcement source" identified him as "14-year-old boy". Is this enough to include it on the page? https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/apalachee-high-school-shooting-georgia-09-04-24#h_0347379ad2bacb3a939324d2c98be7d9 Leaky.Solar (talk) 19:44, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Photo of downtown Winder irrelevant/inappropriate

Campus is in a mostly rural area, located several miles from downtown strip, on the other side of a major highway 12.164.202.26 (talk) 18:45, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I think it's fine at least for the moment. In reviewing how this page develops, I've been comparing it to another school shooting closer to home, and its infobox picture is simply a small dot on the state in the location of the town in which it occurred. If you know of a usable image that's more appropriate and meets licensing requirements, etc. then don't hesitate to put it in or suggest it. Slidinghorn (talk) 19:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Article title

Has there been any other mass shootings at this high school. No. Then the year is not required in the title of the article. Isaidnoway (talk) 18:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

@Isaidnoway Some pages like 2023 Nashville school shooting have the year in which the shooting took place. Kurnahusa (talk) 19:31, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

That's because the requested move was closed as no consensus. Isaidnoway (talk) Isaidnoway (talk) 19:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I see. In my opinion I think this disambiguation would be unnecessary but I'm on the fence here, since there are articles like Columbine High School massacre. Kurnahusa (talk) 19:43, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

WP:NCEVENTS disagrees with you. —Locke Cole • t • c 19:53, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Locke Cole here. As I stated in another comment here, I'm using a more local incident as a reference here, and while the title and URL of the original article for it were undated, it now redirects to 2012 Chardon High School shooting - presumably to follow the convention linked above. Slidinghorn (talk) 20:00, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Photo up for speedy deletion

The photo is up for speedy deletion. If you want to contest it, please do. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 23:01, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

New Colt Info

WSB-TV has reported 14-year-old Colt Gray is a resident from the neighboring county of Jackson County, Georgia. He has been investigated the previous year outside Jefferson, Georgia, exactly a year before this happened. Back when he was 13, the Jackson County Sheriff's Office and the FBI Atlanta Division released a statement saying that in May 2023, the FBI's National Threat Operation Center got several anonymous tips about online threats to commit a shooting at an unidentified location. The threat also contained pictures of guns. The Jackson County Sheriff's Office located the 13-year-old, and went to his house, who denied making the threats. They spoke with the father who said the family did own hunting rifles but the teen did not have access to guns. No arrests were made that day. 2600:1702:5225:C010:B9A9:3F22:8DF9:D089 (talk) 00:18, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Apalachee massacre hatnote?

Not sure if it's relevant, but would a {{for}} template atop Apalachee massacre make sense to direct readers here? I haven't seen this event referred to as a "massacre" yet, but could see someone seeking this article out being confused by that one. —Locke Cole • t • c 19:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

It's something that can easily be confused, so the hatnote is useful. Di (they-them) (talk) 02:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

4 Victims

2 students and 2 teachers were killed. Editor3125 (talk) 20:53, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

One of the nine injured is a special education teacher. So its likely that Colt is either autistic or has special needs. New information was released a short time ago by WSB-TV saying that one of the deceased students was identified by family members as Mason Schermerhorn, a male also diagnosed with autism. 2600:1702:5225:C010:B9A9:3F22:8DF9:D089 (talk) 21:34, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

This is rampant speculation with no (as yet) reported factual basis. People with mental disabilities are ridiculously more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violent crimes—a fact shown even in this case where one of the first known victims was himself autistic. Slidinghorn (talk) 01:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Although no information was released yet about the two deceased teachers, Aspinwall appears to be in his late-30s while Angulo appears to be either in her late-50s or early-60s. 2600:1702:5225:C010:B9A9:3F22:8DF9:D089 (talk) 02:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Timeline

Surely this timeline is not accurate.

"Reports of the shooting were first received at around 9:30 am, with the school placed in lockdown at around 10:20 am and law enforcement responding at around 10:23 am."

It simply did not take almost a full hour from the first report of a shooting to the school locking down and police arriving. My guess is that the 9:30 "report" was the phone call warning of shootings at the different schools, not reports of the actual shooting taking place. ---- BatmanManchesterUnitedFan (talk) 05:08, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

 Removed. WWGB (talk) 06:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2024

I would like to edit this page so I could include the possible suspect of the shooting Colt Gray My source:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/georgia-shooting-apalachee-high-school-updates-b2607069.html Was RazerairMAX (talk) 13:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

 Already done It's already sourced in the article. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 15:11, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Typo or what?

Why, in the current events page does it say:

• Four people are killed and 30 more injured after a mass school shooting at Apalachee High School in Winder, Georgia, United States. (CNN) It's 9 injured as of right now, can somebody fix this typo?

Jjbomb (talk) 18:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

According to CNN, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation has reported that 9 have been hospitalized with injuries, but an estimated 30 people have been injured in total. Rcain1993 (talk) 18:57, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

AHS article expansion

Hello, I expanded the article for where the shooting took place by adding info from this article to make it more notable. Can editors please review that article to see if the detail is appropraite enough? Sparkbean (talk) 16:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Just my two cents, but the entry in the school article should be much briefer (like one paragraph), with just a link to this article. Gjxj (talk) 17:53, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I'll go make the change. Sparkbean (talk) 19:03, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2024 (2)

" shot about 10-15 shots " --> "fired 10-15 rounds" 69.57.194.117 (talk) 16:37, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the suggestion! Slidinghorn (talk) 21:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Colt's life

At the time of the shooting, Gray lived in Bethlehem, Georgia. According to the information I gathered, it appears that the family moved from Jefferson, Georgia, to Bethlehem, Georgia right after his 2023 interview. Just a short time ago, newly-released information from USA Today says that he attended two middle schools, Jefferson Middle School in Jefferson and West Jackson Middle School in Hoschton. There was an X post stating that Gray was born on January 14, 2010, but the photo shows the other student having a similar name, Colten Gray, as GBI investigators said from earlier before Gray's photo was published by media outlets a couple hours ago. So its unknown if that's the right DOB or not. 2600:1702:5225:C010:1C3C:BFB6:E81F:8018 (talk) 19:49, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

This is not the place to be putting this. This is an article about the school shooting, not a BLP of the shooter. Please use the talk page for improvements of the article and not for talking or put unnecessary information on here. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 22:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

No such phrase as "in regards to" in the actual English language

"Attorney General Merrick Garland expressed his devastation in regards to the shooting and to anyone affected by it."

The correct phrase is "with regard to." Cdg1072 (talk) 01:05, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Fixed it. Thanks for spotting the error. A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 01:09, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Location of the school is not in Winder, Georgia

Apalachee High School is not located within the city of Winder and it is simply located in unincorporated Barrow County. I'm aware that the standalone article for the school says that the school is located in Winder, but that is not true, and that article is currently a stub. Winder-Barrow High School is the only high school located within the city boundaries of Winder.

News articles will state that the school is located in Winder, but saying something happened in the largest or most relevant nearby city even if it did not actually occur there is very commonplace. Good examples of this behavior that are in a similar area of interest are the 2017 Las Vegas shooting and Attempted assassination of Donald Trump. In the first case the attack actually happened in Paradise, Nevada, not Las Vegas and in the second case the attack happened at a venue that was located in both Connoquenessing Township and Meridian (though the actual shooting took place within Meridian), but it was reported to have happened in Butler.

This is not original research as we know the location of the school and we know the boundaries of Winder and other jurisdictions within Barrow County. We do not need to be incorrect just because some news media are incorrect. Raskuly (talk) 20:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

The school's own website says "940 Haymon-Morris Rd., Winder, GA 30680" ItzSwirlz (talk) 21:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

USPS addresses do not always match municipal boundaries. In this case, the USPS address is not accurate to municipal boundary. Raskuly (talk) 21:08, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

@ItzSwirlz: The City of Houston stated in this section that "The U.S. Postal Service establishes ZIP codes and mailing addresses in order to maximize the efficiency of their system, not to recognize jurisdictional boundaries.", and it gives examples of cases where a place has a USPS address saying one city, but in fact being in another. In the case of Apalachee High, it is in an unincorporated area, which means it is not in any city at all. Another example is the City of Littleton, Colorado, which published a guide on which ZIP codes are in the city and which aren't (all have "Littleton, CO" postal addresses, but not all are actually in Littleton). WhisperToMe (talk) 02:24, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Do you have a citation that specifically describes the school as not being in Winder?

TypistMonkey (talk) 21:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

A map? Raskuly (talk) 21:32, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but which edition of Rand McNally /s? —Locke Cole • t • c 00:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@TypistMonkey: The U.S. Census Bureau published maps of each county which show which areas are incorporated, which are in census-designated places, and/or which are neither.

• See this page: "2020 CENSUS - CENSUS BLOCK MAP (INDEX): Barrow County, GA" (PDF). U.S. Census Bureau. p. 5 (PDF p. 6/10). Retrieved 2024-09-04. Haymon Morris Rd

Matching this map with the location of the school shows it's in an unincorporated area. (the Census Bureau does not directly indicate high schools on its maps, but it does indicate universities/colleges and prisons) WhisperToMe (talk) 02:24, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2024 (3)

Remove sentence regarding criticism of Mike Collins' statement. It is irrelevant to the subject matter and needlessly political. 98.97.57.64 (talk) 23:20, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 00:13, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree. It is completely unnecessary and has nothing to do with the shooting itself. Ulysses Grant Official (talk) 01:00, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Agreed per Ulysses. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 11:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Father was arrested and charged with murder.

Father was arrested and charged with murder. Please include in article. Thanks. 32.209.69.24 (talk) 01:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

The father of the shooter gave his son the gun AFTER the FBI told the father that his son had threatened to carry out a school shooting.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/georgia-school-shooting-apalachee-live-updates-rcna169694oting-apalachee-live-updates-rcna169694

The Last Hungry Cat (talk) 02:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Also to note is that because of Colt's age, he's been held at the Gainesville Regional Youth Detention Center. His father is in the Barrow County Jail. 2600:1702:5225:C010:48DE:6159:9C07:C04E (talk) 12:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

 Already done Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 02:49, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. 32.209.69.24 (talk) 02:57, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Can info on the shooter's name be revealed?

Someone who has more knowledge about this than me can address my concern. I know that some news sites and this website have identified the shooter by name and by a picture. Is this allowed considering that the shooter in a minor? Or does that not matter since he is being tried as an adult? I thought that it normally wasn't allowed, but wasn't sure if charging a minor as an adult for a crime changed things.

216.138.61.221 (talk) 00:37, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

He's being tried as an adult, and the horse is already out of the barn on this one all over the world's media. 2603:6080:21F0:AB60:4882:B516:7977:E861 (talk) 14:47, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Praying endorses gun violence?

Article currently reads: Georgia U.S. Representative Mike Collins, whose congressional district includes the school, issued a statement offering prayers for the victims and their families.[28] Collins' response was met with criticism from gun control advocates, with some accusing Collins of endorsing gun violence.[29] Bit of a non-sequitur - should probably clarify that Collins' earlier comments on unrelated matters are thought to endorse gun violence - as it reads it sounds like his statement of prayers is the endorsement. Though really, the second sentence is kind of irrelevant to this article and could be deleted altogether.2604:3D09:C77:4E00:34DF:6715:6DC4:F849 (talk) 14:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Agree 96.79.132.6 (talk) 15:26, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

The Gray Family

Gray's maternal grandfather had a short interview with CNN two nights ago, saying that Colt was “just a good kid” who “lived in an environment that was hostile.” Unfortunately he added in a statement saying that his father, Colin (born August 10, 1970; who was a former construction worker), has a strong history of beating the kid up on him but not psychical hurting Colt, adding that the boy did not show any outward anger issues but was affected by his upbringing. Meanwhile, neighbors in Jefferson, Georgia, where Colt grew up, said that the Gray family lived in a broken and neglectful home, always wearing dirty clothes. Gray's aunt, Annie Polhamus Brown, who lives in the Greater Orlando area of Florida with his husband who is also a professional golfer, agreed with his grandfather saying that Colt did had a "toxic" home life. According to previous updates, Brown was at the school exactly 24 hours before the shooting, meaning that she did spent time with Colt's family at the time of the incident.

Colin's wife is Marcee Anne Gray. Marcee earned a Bachelor's degree at Georgia Southern University in 2005 and a Master's degree in Occupation at Columbia Southern University three years later in 2008, and would later list her profession on LinkedIn as a “quality engineer” at Toyota Industries in Pendergrass, Georgia for a short time, and later Precision Castparts Corporation in Douglas, Georgia from January 2021 until September 2021. Just like Colin, she also has a lengthy criminal history, spanning 17 years (as far early as March 2007) across four Georgia counties (three in the Atlanta area) according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Many of her arrests were related to vehicle-related misdemeanors, including reckless driving, improper right turn, and DUI, including a recent arrest in her hometown of Fitzgerald, Georgia, in Ben Hill County for civil fraud charges over the purchase of a used vehicle in April 2024. A former landlord who lives not too far from the Gray family said that Marcee is also abusive towards Colt with a history of battling over drug and alcohol addictions. NBC News later reported that Marcee, who was 43 at the time of the shooting, was also arrested last year on family violence charges and pleaded guilty in December 2023 to second-degree criminal damage of property and criminal trespass-family violence in Bethlehem. She was sentenced to 46 days at the Barrow County Jail. 2600:1702:5225:C010:8914:D55A:51B:F12C (talk) 14:02, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Update

We are learning more about what happened inside the school on September 4, 2024. Here is the updated sequence of events so far:

• Fourteen-year-old Colt Gray leaves his algebra classroom and returns seconds later to knock on the door. A female student in this class, identified as Bri Jones, goes to open the door, but sees the shooter pull out a firearm. She refuses to allow Gray into the room and warns her teacher.
• Gray sees fourteen-year-old student Mason Schermerhorn in the hallway. Schermerhorn had asked to use the restroom and was presumably on his way back. Schermerhorn is shot and killed
• Gray moves down the hall and shoots into Schermerhorn's classroom (the door is open), injuring at least one student. After Gray leaves, the injured student closes and barricades the door.
• Thirty-nine-year-old math teacher and coach Richard Aspinwall steps out into the hall to see what the commotion is. He is shot and mortally wounded. Students from Aspinwall's classroom drag him back into the room, where they attempt to stop the bleeding with their shirts. He does not survive.
• Somewhere before his arrest, Gray murders fifty-three-year-old math teacher Christina Irmie in her classroom as she protects her students and fourteen-year-old Christian Angulo (it is not known where Angulo died)
• Gray surrenders inside a classroom to two school resource officers

Editor3125 (talk) 18:56, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Article Reports of Criticism is One-sided

No responses of presumed advocates of gun control are described as being criticized. Either remove reports of criticism, or report criticism in a non-biased manner. HillbillyWoman (talk) 03:28, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

If there is in fact significant bidirectional criticism, please find reliable sources stating as much. The inclusion of criticism of gun policies does not violate WP:NPOV.

TypistMonkey (talk) 19:23, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Who is Colt Gray?

The Georgia Bureau Of Investigation has reported that the shooter was identified as 14-year-old Colt Gray (born 2009 or 2010). We don't know any information about Colt's life at this time rather than he was a student at the school, a possible local resident, and possibly diagnosed with autism. 2600:1702:5225:C010:B9A9:3F22:8DF9:D089 (talk) 20:39, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

WP:NOTNEWS, we are here to provide an encyclopedic entry of the school shooting, not to smear the suspect of the shooting. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 02:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I found a photo of colt gray, he has a instagram full of photos. This is him. Just look up colt gray instagram Editox1 (talk) 15:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

No, thank you. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 22:12, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Shouldn't wikipedia wait until there's an official mugshot? There's been so much misinformation form him being black to trans etc that Its hard to believe who he is anymore? Just a suggestion Kmart Wifi (talk) 02:33, 8 September 2024 (UTC)