Talk:Deadlock (video game)

Development history and Citadel - probably should re-add the paragraph about Citadel

So, probably better to mention this in a talk page thread than attempt having this discussion in edit summaries. I originally included a paragraph about Citadel in the development history because various sources [1] [2] [3] indicate that Citadel did, in fact, become Neon Prime (which susbequently became Deadlock) - however, I mentioned that the initial cited reports about the Neon Prime project indicated that it seemingly wasn't Citadel at first (but that later cited reports indicated that Citadel became Neon Prime). I'd rather not unrevert the removal of the Citadel paragraph unannounced, but I'd argue that we really should mention Citadel (and what it was going to be) in the paragraph about development history of this game (like how the article about Team Fortress 2 discusses the scrapped initial concepts for that game). 🔥HOTm̵̟͆e̷̜̓s̵̼̊s̸̜̃🔥 (talk・edits) 11:12, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm looking at the reliable sources, most which are relying on Valve News Network (Tyler_McV above), and even with those, the connection between Citadel and Deadlock is not very strong. Neon Prime to Deadlock, absolutely, but how Citadel all connects is very iffy beyond being a project that was worked on ahead of Neon Prime. It seems very hard right now to justify that. --Masem (t) 13:36, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

However, the sources do indicate that Citadel became Neon Prime, which itself became Deadlock. 🔥HOTm̵̟͆e̷̜̓s̵̼̊s̸̜̃🔥 (talk・edits) 14:01, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

I think I'm with Masem on this. There may have been some ideas from Citadel that got incorporated into Deadlock, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Citadel "became" Deadlock. I think it's safest to just not insert any inconclusive speculation for now, at least not until something more substantive from sources comes out (which, y'know, considering what the page is about, who knows when that'll be, but still). silviaASH (inquire within) 14:32, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm not seeing that. Citadel stopped and Neon Prime started about the same time, but that doesn't mean Citadel became Neon Prime. Its worthwhile to keep Citadel in mind once we actually get more information about this game, but until we have better confirmation how it connects, its just another of Valve's internal games that got nowhere. Masem (t) 15:03, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

All of the game files for Deadlock are inside a folder named "citadel". [4] This proves that the code name citadel is related to Deadlock's development. IroNinja5 (talk) 17:33, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Many Source game exes were named the default "hl2.exe", and one can assume that "citadel" is merely used as a common code base for Source 2 games. JungleEntity (talk) 10:29, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm in favor of keeping the Citadel info, per WP:STICKTOTHESOURCE. It's directly stated by two reliable sources, used in the article, to be the same game:

• The game has been known as "Neon Prime" and "Citadel" at prior points. [5]
• McVicker has reported on the project before when it went by the codename Citadel. [6]

If we have reason to doubt this is true, just avoid stating it in Wikipedia's voice and write "According to Ars Technica, it was previously known as Citadel" etc. Popcornfud (talk) 16:05, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I disagree that it should be included at all (mind me I was the one who removed the Citadel sections). I'm pretty sure Tyler McVicker has backtracked on Citadel being Neon Prime. If the source's source is unsure, I think we should err on the side of caution as well. JungleEntity (talk) 07:19, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I've seen that the game's internal folder is referred to as "Citadel", so my personal view on that has changed, although I still think we should err on the side of caution with including development history of the game right now, especially since Valve itself has said nothing, and hasn't allowed media to come in and ask questions either. I'm thinking now even including the Neon Prime section is still shaky at best. JungleEntity (talk) 07:41, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

I personally don't really get the hemming and hawing here. If reliable sources say X then we should also report X, at least until other sources say otherwise. If X turns out to be wrong, then that will be reported in sources and we can update the article. And if we're really worried we can say "According to [source], X" rather than put it in Wiki's voice. Popcornfud (talk) 16:58, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Keep in mbd the only source that mentions the connection of citadel to neon prime us VNN, which we are not going to source directly but through RSes quoting him. And while VNN is generally been right in the past, I would still wait until we have a second independent confirmation about this. Masem (t) 17:55, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm aware it all derives from VNN, but IMO as soon as it's funneled through a RS I'm comfortable reporting it on Wikipedia. Popcornfud (talk) 19:52, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Hero shooter term may be innacurate

I believe it may be more accurate to describe the game as simply a "third-person moba shooter" rather than a "hero shooter / moba." Characters with unique abilities are already a staple of the moba genre, and this game seems to be a moba first and foremost. So, I believe the phrase "hero shooter" is a maybe not a misnomer, but simply a bit of an odd (and redundant) way to put it. Further, the term "third person moba shooter" provides all the same information as the current wording, in addition to information on the perspective of the game. JustToEditDeadlock (talk) 03:26, 4 September 2024 (UTC)