Talk:Jayne Torvill

The 94 controversy

Is it not appropriate to mention that there is some controversy regarding the 94 olympics. Clearly it would be inappropriate to say there was some kind of cheating/judge misconduct, since that has not been proven. But it seems odd that the issue isn't even mentioned in this article; it shouldn't be libel or such to say that there was a controversy and suspicion that some misconduct occurred, right? Kengwen 02:13, 12 December 2006 (UTC) Edit: britannica online mentions the controversy (http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9125260). I'm just saying, I think it would be appropriate to mention it here; that, in fact, the lack of mention makes this article less than completely accurate. imo. Kengwen 02:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, because Torvill and Dean did not mean doesnt mean there was a controversy. I think Grishuk and Platov really deserved the first place. And Usova Zhilin were not bad either.

If it helps, there was massive uproar over it, the rumours being that they didn't want to give gold to the Brits twice in a row. Of course, this is unsubstantiated so it can't go into the article, but I mention it only because the response in the UK was a national newspaper giving T&D honourary gold medals, which the couple accepted. That can go into the article since it is fact and can probably be backed up if someone is willing to look for a citation. Sky83 (talk) 10:39, 21 February 2009 (UTC)she mostly dances with a partner and is world famous.

Crissy Manley

I have followed the careers of T and D since the 80's, and have never heard of Crissy Manley let alone a susposed feud with Torvill, surely this has no place in this article.

I'm mystified too, because fourth place went to Blumberg and Seibert (USA) - see http://www.la84foundation.org/OlympicInformationCenter/OlympicReview/1984/ore197/ORE197f.pdf Blumberg was Californian so it can't be a name switch Grahambrack (talk) 09:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

• [1] This is the diff where someone added the information. It's an IP and the only other edit they made was to an article about a darts player whose surname was also Manley. I've deleted the info as it isn't true (at least the bit about her coming 4th - maybe she did have a feud with someone of that name but it's got nothing to do with the Olympics)ɪntəsvɛnsk 14:00, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

British is not English and vice versa

I edited Jane Torvill's nationality to English from British for these reasons.

1. She is English 2. Scottish and Welsh sportsmen and women are almost invariably described as such on Wikipedia, but it is seemingly a crime to say somebody is English. 3. I clarified that Jane competed for Great Britain with the appropriate internal link to United Kingdom.. 4. English, Scots and Welsh complain about the conflation of English with British, especially by Americans, so ALL Wikipedia articles about British citizens should clarify their nationalities wherever possible. 5. There was nothing inaccurate about my editing so it should not have been reverted. Foot Slogger (talk) 13:20, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Your changes are not in line with current practice, see WP:UKNATIONALS#Sport. For individual sports, the nationality is usually determined by the national sports association or federation with which they are registered. Figure skaters compete for Great Britain, not England, Wales etc so their nationality should generally be described as British.

There are exceptions made for sportspeople who strongly identify their nationality as Scottish etc, for example, Andy Murray is described as Scottish instead of British due to a very strong self-identification as Scottish (although even this is controversial, there are several discussions on this in the talk page archives), but you have not produced any evidence that Torvill identifies as English above British so your changes are inappropriate. Please also note that WP:UKNATIONALS#Sport strongly discourages changes made solely to impose uniformity. January (talk) 13:46, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Re your edit summary here, can I just point out that Katherine Grainger, the example you used, is actually described as British. January (talk) 14:03, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Indeed that is the case regarding Katherine Grainger. Two points though. Katherine is strongly identified as Scottish as evidenced by the BBC's London 2012 television coverage, where NOT ONE English competitor was described as English or being from England. Howver, Scottish and Welsh athletes were constantly described as such. Back to Jane Torvill, you have no evidence that Jane does NOT identify as English above British. The 2011 census shows that 70% of people in England place being English above British including those from Nottingham. I contend that my entry is accurate, does not mislead anybody and therefore is far from contentious. Regarding the WP:UKNATIONALS#Sport policy, it is patently obvious from my entry that Jane competed for Great Britain and also that is obvious from the information box. My changing British to English is fully justified and falls in line with hundreds of other entries. Your objections smack of anti-English sentiment more than anything else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Foot Slogger (talk • contribs) 16:25, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

You're suggesting we make an exception to normal practice, so it's for you to demonstrate that she identifies as English not for me to disprove it. What did you find in my comments that smacks of anti-English sentiment? I find that suggestion offensive. January (talk) 16:45, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I propose to restore the previous version. It was cleaner to describe her by the nationality she competed for and this was in line with current practice per WP:UKNATIONALS#Sport. There are inconsistencies across the project, but these need to be considered on a case by case basis. I don't think you have made a convincing case for an exception on this article, in particular you have not presented any evidence that she identifies as English above British. January (talk) 09:18, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Restored as proposed. January (talk) 13:58, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

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