Talk:Mario/Archive 3

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Vandal

So everyone knows if you see the username "Jpjuga" on the history list he has probably been vandilising this article so look at the changes made by this user if you ever see his name, i've just cleaned up some extreme vandilism made by this user.

That user's been blocked now, no need to worry. Thanks for checking up on vandalism. Makron1n 17:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

Some creep just edited the sentence "Mario's original name was Jumpman" to "Mario's official name is Skinhead" I'll go take care of that.

This page should be protected. It's been getting vandalised a lot lately.Cfive 22:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Name

In the biography "Game Over: How Nintendo Conquered the World" by David Sheff, it is revealed that Mario was not, in fact, named after a Nintendo of America employee, but after a mean-spirited landlord from which Nintendo were renting their New York offices from. A small point, but a significant one. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.38.59.80 (talk • contribs) .

This has been discussed before, but they weren't able to provide a good source. Where's this biography? — SheeEttin {T/C} 15:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I own a copy of this book and have been looking for it all week. I'm going to request it from my local public library if my copy doesn't turn up soon, so again, I should be able to source it soon, if no one beats me to it. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 01:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

No, It was named after a pizza guy! Theres a trophey in SSBM of the pizza guy that says thats who Mario is named after!--Lego3400 17:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think I've ever heard of a trophy of a pizza guy in melee. Where did you hear that? -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 21:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I can't remember --Lego3400 23:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I have proof for the landlord thing. Retro Gamer Magazine Issue either V02 02, or V02 05. --Jr W 11:29, 3 July 2006 (AEST)

Okay. Will add. But can we have someone else to verify this? It's been a problem in the past. — SheeEttin {T/C} 23:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Finally, thank you. This story was too old not to be true.Duhman0008 13:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe the biography came from the Super Mario World Strategy Guide (released about 15 years ago) in its Mario history section. I haven't seen that book in years, so I cannot verify, but hopefully someone else can. Regarding Mario and Luigi having the last name "Mario", it was mentioned by Luigi in Super Mario Bros. The Movie in the jail scene. Is that considered canon, or should someone just shoot the producers with a canon?

Geekrecon 19:27, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Nintendo Power has stated in one issue (whichever one had the feature on the Classic NES Series) that Mario was named after the landlord of the original NOA building. 72.187.97.84 20:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Length

The Mario article is rather long, both in actual size and text length. WP:SIZE states that pages with a size greater than 50 KB should probably be divided. Briefly scanning the article, I didn't see any sections that could be split off. Any opinions on whether a section should be split off, shortened, or what? — SheeEttin {T/C} 23:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Just a thought, but the "abilities and techniques" section is very very long. It also seems like it could be merged with the "powers" section. Do we really need to go through every major Mario title and discuss the powers he does and doesn't have in each one individually? Wouldn't it be enough to briefly discuss the things he can usually do (stomp, kick, toss, use the major power-ups) and leave the more obscure techiniques and items (copy flower, power carrot) for the article on specific games? -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 14:58, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Go right ahead. — SheeEttin {T/C} 18:48, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Hee hee. Well, I've been thinking about it, and everytime I look at that massive section, I get a bit intimidated by the sheer scope of task of pairing it down. Perhaps if I get ambitious.. but you did say you were just soliciting opinions as to what section could be cut down. :) -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 03:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

True, but so do I. If I feel adventurous at some point (and someone else hasn't), then I'll do it. Until then... too big of a job for this procrastinator. — SheeEttin {T/C} 22:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

What I'd do is summarize his main powers, and move the rest to List of Mario powers, or whatever. Highway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 23:57, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Or, alternately, summarize the main powers, and leave the individual game articles to cover the unusual ones. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. In any case, something will either have to be pruned or split off. — SheeEttin {T/C} 22:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Alright, you got me. If we're in agreement that this needs to be slimmed down, I'll give it a try tomorrow, attempting to emphasize recurring Mario powers over once-off items, gimmicks, and minor tweaks to gameplay. Although, the closer we can come to explictly spelling out what belongs and what's excessive, the better, because I suspect otherwise we'll soon be dealing with everyone wanting to add infomation about their favorite game until the size is unmanagable again. Alternatives to going title by title would include loosely organizing by type of power ("Mario can sometimes throw fireballs, as seen in X, Y, Z") or by common powers within a series (ie, the Super Mario Bros. series, Mario Sports titles, the Smash series, etc). The former might be less redundant, but the benefit of the latter would be that the powers depicted in the main Super Mario Bros. series are probably considered the most cannonical of the character as a fictional entity. Anyone have thoughts on this? -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 18:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The "cameo" sub-section of "Appearances" could probably be split into a separate article. As of now, it is somewhere between a short explanation of Mario's cameos and a long list of all cameos. A "list of Mario cameos" page would probably be a good idea. I'll add a "split this" tag.

I think that there needs to be a differentiation between actual cameo appearances and mere references to Mario. All but the most recent entries refer to actual Mario cameos, whereas the two (aforementioned) most recent entries, referring to World of Warcraft and Bully, actually refer to Mario allusions, rather than cameos. Makron1n 01:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Baby Mario

Ok, I'm confused here. Is Baby Mario actually Mario himself or is he Mario's son? --Plainnym 18:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Baby Mario is the Mario when he was a baby. --206.8.10.4 06:08, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Then how come in Mario Kart: Double Dash!!!! they both appear? --Plainnym 16:03, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Its a non-canon game and fan-service. -Randall Brackett 16:08, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

What's this blithering about Mario canon? WHAT Mario canon?

The reason they both appear in MKDD is because the Mario Kart games aren't much bound by little things like causality and making much sense. They both appear so that MKDD can have more characters. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

That is really, really not a helpful comment.

Oh there's canon. Recall Super mario Brothers, Super mario Brothers 2 and Super mario Brothers 3...? That's a canonical sequence. I would presume Mario 64 would be as well. Other games in the series become hazy to me, however. -Randall Brackett 23:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Nah. A Man in Black pretty much had it right. Mario Bros. games aren't very concerned with canonicity, as a rule; they're more concerned with recurring themes and ideas than inter-storyline consistency, which, combined with the simplicity of the plotlines (or lack thereof) of most Mario games, can give a semblance of canon. The first three Mario games are a perfect example of this. All 3 are pretty much self-contained, with no references to one another. And SMB2 turns out to just be a dream. Or does it? The games are never clear on it: SMB2 ends with it having been a dream, but numerous enemies and abilities from that game recur in later Mario games. That's because the games don't need to be clear on it; the recurring characters and plot themes in Mario games exist as comfortingly familiar "polish", not as central elements upon which the gameplay is built upon. That's what makes them so flexible. -Silence 00:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Really, don't worry about Mario canon. There's just a bunch of common elements randomly reassembled in whatever pattern makes for an interesting game. Both adult Mario and baby Mario driving the same vehicle? Just roll with it; it's fun and doesn't bear too much thinking about. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the quotient of Mario series seems to be out of whack. But they had all been followed in a fairly capable sequence simply because Marios a good chap. I'm sure there are far more outlandish reasons for this series and its installments. I really think that's good and right, and I thank you for clarifying that Silence.

As for the blithering comment, I wouldn't object to its premise, though it might be more appropriate to leave that nonsense out of productive conversations in the future. -Randall Brackett 00:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Baby Mario could have travelled to the future in the sports and racing titles. At the end of Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, the past characters take the time machine back to the past with them and could presumably use it to return to the future. --206.8.10.4 01:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if it's fair to say Mario games totally lack canon. They don't seem to have any strong continuity, and I agree that's not anything to stress out over. But there are certain characteristics of characters which tend to persist across many games, which are generally supported in statements by nintendo, spin-off media, and the court of popular opinion. For example, I think it's completely fair to say that Mario is a plumber, and not, for example, a doctor or a cement factory worker, although these professions have been depicted in some games. Mario Sports titles (along with the Super Smash series, and the Mario Party series, among others) have a tendency to chuck these established bits of lore out the window whenever it's convenient, making enemies into friends, placing characters in situations where they couldn't reasonably exist, and making professional athletes out of everyone under the sun. By contrast, the platformer series doesn't have a lot of plot, but I can't really think of a blatant contradiction among the titles in that series, or anything in that series which blatantly conradicts general Mario lore. Not that any of this matters, but I do think it's fair to assume that the Mario Kart titles are in their own little bubble, and how they employ Baby Mario doesn't need to make sense. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 13:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Super Show Info.

A couple months ago I had bought the Super Mario Brothers Super Show D.V.D. box set from SHOUT! Factories. When I watched it revealed a great deal about the origins of the Mario brothers like about their family and lives. I know that most people don't consider the Super Show to be part of the canon but do you think we could include a small section on this article stating information that revealed more about Mario's life based on the show? Either that or include this information in the section talking about the Mario tv shows?

Mario really needs to be an A-class article

If you look in the assessment scale, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment you can see the description of an A rank article. I dunno about everyone else but there's so much good information here that this almost begs needing an A rank. Being one of the most important characters in the gaming world, as well as one of the biggest and best VG related articles on the whole wikipedia, I think this could be expanded upon to get an A rank, or even FA rank provided it gets improved enough. What does it need to help it going? I'd change the rank myself like it suggested I should if I disagree with the rank, but I'm hesitant. :( Toastypk 18:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

It's a bit long, though. Someone else (I'm section editing, can't see your name at the moment) said they were going to prune the "Special Powers" section (I think, section editing again) down, but since I've been away for a bit, I don't know about any changes. — SheeEttin {T/C} 21:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi again. Sorry about the delay. I am still working on that "pruning", though. -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 22:51, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

The infobox

User:Charoog10 has been editing the infobox to display different information. The {{General CVG character}} infobox has been here for quite a while - should it be reverted to that version? I've already reverted it once, and I don't want to get into an edit war. Also contains unofficial information, like stating that Peach is Mario's girlfriend. --Mr. Lefty _{Talk to me!} 01:19, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Starman ('invincibility star') and the ability to run faster.

From the article:

In New Super Mario Bros. for the Nintendo DS, the Starman also gives Mario the ability to run much faster.

I thought the Starman made Mario faster in all the games? Wasn't it in SMB3 and SMW? Aaron McDaid (talk - contribs) 13:54, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Nope. Never made him run faster. It could be that the player felt more confident to run faster, but I don't think Mario's speed was changed. --Golbez 14:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

It really makes him run faster-Frankyboy5

Beginning of attempt to shorten and organize abilities section

I've given this a first pass. At the moment, it's probably too short, but I thought comparing two versions might be a jumping off point for a discussion as to what abilities need to be mentioned, and which ones don't. I'd still like to add an extra paragraph about less-used items following the items paragraph -- this would include the caps from 64 and the non-recurring Super Mario 3 items, among other things. Also, I left the images out for now, just because I thought it made more sense to integrate them back into the layout after figuring out this section more concretely. Thoughts? -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 07:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Only Nintendo not true

Under Mainstream success it says "Mario is the official video game mascot for Nintendo, and is synonymous with the Nintendo brand. Because of this, Mario only appears in Nintendo games on Nintendo systems.". But this is not true because less then a screen down there is "Appearances on non-Nintendo platforms"--141.157.98.29 19:10, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks for the tip. :) -- Lee Bailey^(talk) 21:10, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Should the second paragraph under "Appearances on non-Nintendo Platforms" be deleted? Flash games and movies and TI-83 calculator games have nothing to do with Mario or Nintendo, so they do not belong in this section. Perhaps a section about fan recreations could preserve this paragraph, but it very much seems out of place where it is.

Geekrecon 19:44, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Intro?

Why has the introduction been lengthened? Last time I was here, it was shorter, more succint and, just quietly, a lot better. Satchfan 02:14, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I made a slight change. Is that better? --DavidHOzAu 23:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Wasn't it just a dream?

"Bowser isn't Mario's only foe, however. He has rescued Princess Peach and saved the Mushroom Kingdom from a number of different villains such as Wart in Super Mario Brothers 2,"

Now it seems to me that this bit about mario 2 in the context it appears in this article would imply that this game actually happened in the Mario universe canon. Now correct me if I'm wrong but I do beleive the game ends with him dreaming the whole thing, and thus should not be included as something he actually did. "but mike, we see enemies from mario 2 in alot of games after it so mario 2 had to have been more than a dream." well ofcourse we would see those enemies. how many creatures do you completly make up when you dream? I think it's safe to assume that these enemies that appear in mario's dream are there becaus of past experiance with them. any way just my 2 cents --TimeCruiserMike 16:54, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

If those enemies existed in reality before the dreamed events of SMB2, surely Wart could have as well? --Guess Who 05:53, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

It was never specifically stated that the whole game was a dream. For all we know, Mario could have been dreaming of the adventure that he had just had. It can be safe to assume that Wart is a "real" creature, however the only other appearance he made was in Link's Awakening, which was also considered a dream. Until Nintendo says that the realm of Subcon was just a dream that Mario thought up, it can be assumed that the place and everyone in it exists. -SaturnYoshi 06:09, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

As an aside, the above quote states that Mario saved The Mushroom Kingdom from Wart, which is not true. He saved Subcon from Wart. (I've decided to reword that little bit myself.) Back to the main issue though, even if the name 'Subcon' strongly suggests a dream world (subconscious), anything can happen in the Marioverse, and so everything in it should be presumed to be real. If Mario dreamed the adventure, he could have been physically transported to a different realm during his sleep, or some other fanciful scenario. Makron1n 14:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Super Smash Bros. Melee refers to Subcon as "Mushroom Kingdom II". Whether this is Nintendo's way of saying that Subcon is an alternate Mushroom Kingdom (like the Hyrule/Termina connection) is anyone's guess. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 07:51, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

It's more likely to just be a continuity error in Smash Bros. Makron1n 11:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Gamefaqs, why?!

As an avid GFaqser, I am ashamed that they wont stop screwing us over because of the contest...Julz

The GameFAQs forums are among the worst on the internet, paralleled only by the IMDB forums. I say this as a former member. Nothing they do surprises me. --Golbez 06:37, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Depends on the board you go to. Some users are very helpful and intelligent, as opposed to the Gamespot users, affectionately referred to as GSers. I used to frequent some boards, but I've drifted away since they changed the look. I miss it. — SheeEttin {T/C} 20:27, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Holy crap they're coming! Julz

I bet they're all Final Fantasy fanboys. I should've picked FF as the winner in the contest... I underestimate the power of fanboys. — SheeEttin {T/C} 23:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

"Mario Mario" official

The article says that the name "Mario Mario" has never been confirmed in any Nintendo media. However, in Nintendo Power, which is part of Nintendo of America, they confirm that Mario's full name is Mario Mario (and that Luigi's full name is Luigi Mario) So it has been officialy confirmed.

Please inform me which issue specifically includes this. I can verify this, but only if you let me know which issue. -- (Lee)Bailey^(talk) 23:41, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I remember reading that issue also. I believe it was in the Letters Section. While I can't pinpoint the exact volume, I believe it may have been in 1995. I'm not sure how much that helps though. --SaturnYoshi 09:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I remember seeing this particular letter too, in response to a letter writer that figured that if they were the "Mario Brothers", thier last name had to be Mario. The reply seemed rather tounge-in-cheek, and I don't know how reliable the word of some NOA guy answering letters is, but it does count as "Nintendo media", and is most likely where the movie got the name. Other than that, the only refrence to "Mario Mario" I've ever seen is in the SMB movie. So, I'd probably not call it "official" unless someone has a source from Miyamoto calling him that. --UsaSatsui 03:58, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have Miyamoto's address or telephone number? --SaturnYoshi 06:24, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Ha! I don't think that'd work. Maybe an email address for someone involved, but I doubt you'd get Miyamoto. But you never know. — SheeEttin {T/C} 14:52, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Nintendo has an e-mail form ([1]) for those who are ambitious enough to find out the truth of this matter, or just want to find the source of this NP issue. --UsaSatsui 23:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

If using it, remember that we can't modify the article based on that information. -- ReyBrujo 02:59, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I've looked through a huge stack of Nintendo Power magazines, including all of 1994 and 1995, and still can't find this. :( It might be in one of the few I don't have -- I own a lot of 'em. But I will say that the answers to most of the letters I did read were very tongue-in-cheek, including at one point a 'scientific' discussion of whether or not Kirby was actually made of marshmallow... I'm left with the impression that the folks who answer those letters can't be trused for much more than release dates and what's coming up in the next issue. -- (Lee)Bailey^(talk) 14:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Luigi's Mansion

Mario actually says TWO sentences in that game. If you stand near the well, you can hear him say "Hey, Luigi, what's the holdup?" --Color Printer 01:10, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

One of the most recognizable?

Is there any doubt that Mario is the most famous video game character ever? I know many non-gamers who can probably identify Mario and no other video game character. At least let us say "arguably the most" well-recognized. 172.128.169.220 08:14, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm sure that Sonic, Lara Croft and a handful of other video game characters are just as easily recognizable. --SaturnYoshi 08:24, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

If you showed your Grandmother Lara Croft, would she be able to identify her? 70.106.204.245 03:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I doubt she'd even be able to identify Mario. -SaturnYoshi 05:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I doubt she'd identify a pixel.Heck,my grandfather played Sonic 2 once or twice,and when I asked him how many pixels sonic was,he looked at me as if I were crazy.24.32.87.146(Gamer 108...or was it 102?I forget.)

And rightly so, that question makes no sense. --Golbez 21:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Well I just asked my grandparents . . . they both know who Mario is but neither of them know who Sonic, Lara Croft, or Crash Bandicoot are, so there ya go. - TimeCruiserMike 07:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

My grandmother's a gamer (weird, I know), and she knows who Mario is, but no others. —The Great Llama ^talk 23:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Metal Mario

I don't think the section about metal mario is important enough to be so high at the top of the article... maybe it could go under something else? -Power Slave 21:52, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Concept & Creation

I felt that a lot of the text under the heading of 'Concept & Creation' actually described Mario's abilities in various games, and therefore belonged in the section above it, which is similarly titled. I have, however, not transplanted all of the abilities that were mentioned in that section over: feel free to add to what I've written. Makron1n 15:01, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

'Realistic' Mario

Under 'Characteristics', someone had written a short section on how Mario had achieved a more 'realistic' look in successive generations of promotional artwork. However, I'd be inclined to say that he's simply got more detailed, rather than 'realistic'. He still looks nothing like a real human being (which is entirely the point; he is a stylised character). Anyway, I've reworded it. Feel free to dispute. Makron1n 07:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

What I meant is that he's a bit taller and a lot more detailed. Frankyboy5 22:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Sprites in PM: TTYD

I recently stumbled across this website with sprites apparently included in the programming but were not used in the game PM: TTYD. Could someone please verify this information and include it in the article if neccesary? The site is here: [2]. The sprites are found on the bottom of the page. 138.192.30.189 00:53, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Mario franchise sales figures?

Hello all! The article says that Mario games sold over 275 million units. But the source specified for that number quotes Nintendo who says that the Mario franchise "only" sold 184 million games. This is in line with the official Nintendo press releases: [3] The Shigeru Miyamoto entry in moby games [4] says that:

Both the Zelda and Mario franchises have been amazing sellers, with Mario selling almost 275 million units and Zelda selling 47 million units as of 2005.

I imagine that the difference between Nintendo numbers and the numbers cited in Moby Games come from all the non-Super Mario Bros. games, such as Mario Party or the Mario Sports titles. Just a thought. Anyway, 89 million units is a lot of a difference. That's more than twice as much as all the GTAs, or three times as much as all the Resident Evils. Quotes from Wikipedia with both numbers (275m and 184m) circulate today on the internet. In some non-English versions of Wikipedia, 184m is still the official number. But in the article, we don't give evidence that the Mario franchise sold 275m units.

Either way, both numbers were as of 2005. Now with New Super Mario Bros, Mario Party 7, Mario & Luigi Partners in Time, all released in 2006, they probably could be updated. Does anyone have a good source? --Jerjer 09:43, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

GA Re-Review and In-line citations

Note: This article has a very small number of in-line citations for an article of its size and currently would not pass criteria 2b.
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 22:06, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

PS: I would also work on incorporating the Trivia details into the main article. Agne 22:06, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Old Peer Review

Could someone file this please? Judgesurreal777 04:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Mario

This article was last weeks Improvement drive. What more do people think needs to be done for this article to reach featured article status? I know the enemies section is still a bit messy, I'll try to get round to fixing that up soon. Jacoplane 20:47, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Its getting there, good work and keep at it.

1. I tried to smooth out the intro a bit, and I'm sure my attempt and can improved upon.
2. " as Mario games specifically lack over-complicated plots or too much character development so as to not limit his future roles." - That's a bit POV - who's to say what's over-complicated?
3. Biography needs to be longer
4. Minor grammer issues throughout article
5. Under abilities and techniques maybe a table or something with pictures for each transform would be good (although maybe a bit wishlist-y)
6. "Many contend that Mario first appeared in the video game Donkey Kong as Jumpman (Shigeru Miyamoto, his creator, contends that Mario is a descendant of Jumpman and not Jumpman himself)" as opposed to...?
7. There's a couple one sentence paragraphs in there

and of course what you mentioned about the bestiary. --RN 22:46, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing up the intro. And thanks for your feedback. You some insightful comments, they give us a good starting point to improve the article, thx! We'll take your comments into account, we hope to have Mario on the front page soon ;) Jacoplane 22:58, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

I tried to objectivize the sentence you cite in your second point, in the article's Biography section. I also replaced en-dashes (-) with em-dashes (—) throughout the whole article where applicable. I would appreciate some assistance in adding some information to Mario's biography; I believe it can be said he is somewhat lazy (falling to sleep if inactive in Super Mario Sunshine, if I recall correctly) and gourmand (as his plump appearance seems to indicate), though he livens up if the situation calls for it. Added to that, he cares for the wellbeing of other people (frequently saving the Mushroom Kingdom) and is a sensitive character (love interest with Princess Peach). Do others have suggestions or comments? Thanking you, Grumpy Troll (talk) 17:41, 6 August 2005 (UTC).

Get rid of the list of characters; takes up too much space, and this information should be condensed to sections/paragraphs on Wario, Luigi, Princess Peach and King Bowser. Same with the moves; like Wario has done, don't do a list, take the most important ones. -- A Link to the Past 15:58, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and rewrote the biography intro sentence to make a little more sense and be a bit less absolutist... it might need some minor tweaking --Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 16:27, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

• Images should have fair use rationale. See image description page --ZeWrestler ^Talk 19:05, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes I just realised this not too long ago. I've just added the fair use rational in all the images linked to from Wario, (See Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Wario) .. I'm going to do it for this article too. Thanks for the feedback. I find this whole situation a bit unclear though, and I wonder how Super Mario 64 became a featured article when the images found in that article have no fair use rationale.
    • I didn't realize it until the peer review for Final Fantasy VI.(Which i'm working on right now) Super Mario 64 probally either slipped through the cracks, or the policy was not affect at the time of the creation. I'll work a little bit on that pictures from that article. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 19:44, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
      • Took care of that and the Link (Legend of Zelda) articles.--ZeWrestler ^Talk 20:26, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
        • Excellent :) Jacoplane 20:36, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Brooklyn?

The article says that in the game Mario Bros., Mario and Luigi fought monsters in the sewers of Brooklyn, New York. What is the source of this information? I never thought the game had an actual setting. I know Mario comes from Brooklyn (according to the Super Mario Bros. instruction manual, but does the instruction manual or arcade console for this Mario Bros. specfically state that the sewers are in Brooklyn? 138.192.30.190 14:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually I think he's generally not regarded as coming from Brooklyn at all anymore. Nintendo retconned it, so now he's from the Mushroom Kingdom himself (note that he was born there). Also there's no mention of Brooklyn in the SMB insutrction manual. Makron1n 16:06, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Intead of fighting about it, since I wouldn't want to change what's there until we have references, does anyone have anything definitive, such as a Nintendo reference? Thanks Judgesurreal777 01:36, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. As I said I only think he's no longer regarded as being from Brooklyn. Need sources before revision. Makron1n 12:00, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

According to the SMB instruction manual, Mario is a plumber from Brooklyn. This is a fact established by the manual. However, according to SMW 2: Yoshi's Island, Mario was born in the Mushroom Kingdom. Although this may be a retcon, it is not a comlete one as it does not say Mario lived in the Mushroom Kingdom for his entire life. We can't say one way or the other. However, we do need to figure out if the original Mario Bros. arcade game takes place in Brooklyn. It would be false to say it does unless an offical source says so. I don't won't to argue about Mario's origin; we just need to figure out if Mario Bros. takes place in Brooklyn. So, is this statement from the article correct:

"It was in his third appearance in Mario Bros. where he changed his profession to plumber, which was more fitting with the long-running pipe theme established in that game. Here, Mario and his younger brother Luigi fought monsters in the sewers of Brooklyn, New York."

138.192.30.197 16:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

As an aside, could you get me that quote from the Super Mario Bros. instruction manual that describes him as being from Brooklyn? I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just not something I've heard of. Makron1n 16:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I say we all search and post what we find here so we can clear this up :) Judgesurreal777 17:36, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Wow. I feel so dumb. I checked the Super Mario Bros. Deluxe instruction manual (which I very much believed stated Mario was from Brooklyn) and found nothing. So now my question is: Where did this conception that Mario is from Brooklyn come from? Was it solely the creation of the Super Mario Bros. Super Show or did it stem from actual game material? Also, does the original SMB instruction manual state Mario is from Brooklyn? And what about the original Mario Bros.? Basically, where did this whole Brooklyn thing come from? 208.42.91.104 20:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

According to the article, it came from the Mario Bros. arcade game, with the sewers being located there. The (godawful, and non-canon) movie also portrays them as living in Brooklyn. I'm not sure about the authenticity of the Mario Bros. citation, either, but I can't comment on that myself. Also: I found the original Super Mario Bros. manual on the Internet, and the 'Story' is essentially identical. Mario just comes from...somewhere. Makron1n 20:46, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

So we need to figure out if that statement is true. Did the Brooklyn concept come from the original Mario Bros.? Can someone verify this with a reliable source? -- Son of Suns

In the magazine "Gamer's Galaxy" it said that in the early mario games, mario fought monsters in Brooklyn with his brother Luigi. I hope that anwsers your questionsVitamEn-J 07:38, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Not really; we need a source from Nintendo themselves. Makron1n 12:21, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

LOOK MARKOL1N, I dont Know what they teach you at your Uni because Gamer's Galaxy is as good as source's get. The article is writen by David Strongman, one of the engineer's that are working on the Wii. VitamEn-J 04:42, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, you might've said so! Although still, what we really need is something from an old game manual or such. I guess that'd do for now though, since he's a Nintendo employee. (Also, rather unsurprisingly, they don't teach us about the reliability of games magazines.) Makron1n 14:14, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Is "Gamer's Guide" an official Nintendo publication? I've looked all over the web for it but can find nothing about it. I've also looked for David Strongman to no avail. Are there any online resources that can confrim these statements? 138.192.30.189 14:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Although he actually said 'Gamer's Galaxy', not 'Gamer's Guide', I can't exactly find much on that either. Makron1n 10:35, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

OF Course your not going to find any source's on David Strongman!!! He's not a celeberity or somthing, and Gamer's Galaxy is a very popular magizine. I have a copy right here. Infact I think I'll read it now VitamEn-J 21:01, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't live in the US, so naturally I hadn't heard of it before now. Could you get us a link to their website? Makron1n 22:24, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Confirmation of name being just "Mario" not "Mario Mario"

Video interview from Inside Edition 1988 confirming that the name is just Mario, not Mario Mario[5].70.101.200.243 07:09, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Nintendo of America did not create the game. The only one who can truly answer that question is Shigeru Miyamoto. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 15:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Some rumors say Shigeru Miyamoto confirmed this!!!!!!!!!!! Need citation though!!!!!!!!! Frankyboy5 05:35, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Cite more references

I'm going to try to cite some more sources in this article. Anyone want to help? --The Great Llama^{(speak to the Llama!)} 19:26, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

This Picture...

All right, WHAT IS THIS???? Who put that picture up there?! 10/28/06 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.19.141.251 (talk • contribs) .

Italian accent

When Mario says "Luigi" it seems to have a southern accent, very similar to Sophia Loren's one. I guess Mario is a plumber from Naples ;) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.190.168.40 (talk • contribs) .

Cameos and special appearances

So, should this be split into a seperate article, or what? Personally, considering the length of it, I think it does belong in a seperate article. --—The Great Llama ^talk 14:29, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Might be worthwhile. There should also be more of a differentiation between actual appearances of Mario and mere allusions to or parodies of him or his world (as in World of Warcraft/Bully). Makron1n 15:58, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

The title of that section still bothers me, given that Mario doesn't actually cameo in World of Warcraft. I've been trying to think of a good name for that section, but can currently only come up with the idea of sticking "/allusions" on the end, which is clumsy. (Hey, it is nearly 2AM here, and I lack coffee.) Any better ideas..? Makron1n 01:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, er, woops. Looks like that little bit just needs deleting. Makron1n 01:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

How many references?

About how many references should there be in this article? —The Great Llama ^talk 17:43, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Contrary to external links, there will never be "too many" references. If inline citation is used through the m:Cite/Cite.php format, they are obstructive for casual readers (sure, harder to edit, but such is the price for our verifiability concept). -- ReyBrujo 18:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Damn Vandals

Someone deleted everything! Roxyr 16:15, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

It's been reverted by an anonymous user. Vandalism on this page is quite common, but not really common enough for the page to be protected. Yet. Decent users are doing a good job of staying on top of it. Makron1n 17:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)