Talk:North America/Archive 5

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Toponymy of North America section

A couple things about this section seem odd to me. First, I'm not sure about the title, "Toponymy of North America". I think I understand what is meant by the phrase, but it sounds awkward. Wikipedia is often criticized for overusing various words, like portmanteau and malapropism (those two the subject of an xkcd comic). "Toponym" gets mocked for similar reasons. That aside, I'm not sure this section is even about the "Toponymy of North America". It seems to be more about the usage of "North America" and various other terms that have been used. The "Contemporary" subsection and a couple of the "Historical" bullets would be better called "usage" instead of "toponymy", I think. Second, the "Historical" subsection confuses me. Two or three of the bullets are about the term "North America" or terms used for the whole continent. Most, however, seem to be about various other terms historically used for parts of the continent--very small parts in some cases. I don't see the point of mentioning Florida, Virginia, New England, Nova Albion (New Albion), or Norumbega. None of these are about the continent itself. And why mention these but not any number of other names historically used for parts of the continent, like, oh, California, Louisiana, New France, New Spain, Acadia, New Netherland, etc etc etc? Pfly (talk) 20:57, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you Pfly, the section is talking about the usage of the term "North America" in different contexts both historic and contemporary. If I'm not wrong, toponymy refers to the history of the origin of place names so it is not suitable for this. I also agree with you about Florida, Virginia, New England, Nova Albion and Norumbega. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 23:35, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I will go with Pfly because it is not real toponomy but only usage of the term. I agree with you both and I also moved back the section to its proper place because usage of the term has always been there because it is the right place. Putting it up confuses because the article is about the continent as defined in the 7 continents model not about any of the usages being described there. ♥ Xuandy ♥ (Talk) 15:40, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Agree. Yeah it should be after the countries and territories table as usual. I support your move. KarniFro^{( Talk to me)} 15:56, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Agreed text after the table of countries AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 18:43, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Agree and I'm glad to see we all agreed ♥ Xuandy ♥ (Talk) 08:38, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Geez I arrived too late (again) because I see the section was already reworded!! Well its ok I just want to express support for Pfly's suggested rewording. KarniFro^{( Talk to me)} 15:48, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Heh, yea, I just went ahead and changed the section name and cut a good chunk of the text. Also changed it from bullet point to prose style. The text and wording could probably be polished up better. Pfly (talk) 17:45, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Caribbean (CIA).png Nominated for Deletion

	An image used in this article, File:Caribbean (CIA).png, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Media without a source as of 27 June 2011 What should I do?
	A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 14:48, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Somebody needs to pay attention to this notice, it's been here since June 29th and seems like everybody just ignored it. What can we do? We need this image!!! KarniFro^{( Talk to me)} 20:02, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Alex and I are working on it! Don't worry, we're working on finding the sourcing information. 08OceanBeach^S.D. 05:16, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I believe it's been taken care of. 08OceanBeach^S.D. 05:25, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Karnifro, I added the appropiate licensing tags days ago as an administrator requiered me to do it. After adding the licensing tags he said it was ok now and the deletion process was stopped. Don't worry, this was just a notice to bring attention to the image. I should have posted something here to let everybody know it was fixed. I also added a new map for Central America, because the previous one was reverted to an earlier version which included the Caribbean (it was being used in other articles) so don't worry, our maps are still here. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 17:17, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

File:North America satellite orthographic.jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:North America satellite orthographic.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on July 15, 2011. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2011-07-15. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! howcheng {chat} 17:22, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Picture of the day

A composite satellite image of the continent of North America in orthographic projection. North America occupies the northern portion of the landmass generally known as the Americas, with its southern border at the Darién watershed along the Colombia–Panama border. The vast majority of North America rests on the North American Plate, while small parts of California and western Mexico rest on the Pacific Plate; Central America and the Caribbean islands rest on the Caribbean Plate.Photo: NASA

Thanks for letting us know this is nice ♥ Xuandy ♥ (Talk) 08:56, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Americo Vespucci did not find South America

In the articles "Etymology"-section, Americo Vespucci is said to be the first to have found South America. This depends on whether or not we believe that he found South America during his 1. voyage, which is suspected to have not existed at all, see Americo Vespucci. If he did not find South America at this voyage, he would surely not be the discoverer. Christopher Columbus visited the coast of the continent in his third voyage 1. August 1498, before Americo, whose second voyage (which is not under suspection)commanded by Alonso de Ojeda left Europe in May 1499. Also some claim that the founder of South America was Pedro Álvares Cabral, who anchored on the coast of Brazil Wednesday 22 April 1500, but I cannot see why he should be favoured over Columbus (whether he should be favoured over Vespucci depends on the day the Vespucci-expedition landed on the continent).

And even if we believe that the first voyage of Vespucci did take place in 1497, then according to the letter claimed to be his descpition of the voyage (see http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1497vespucci-america.asp), the place he landed was: "for we found the North Pole at an elevation of 16 degrees above its horizon, [note 5: That is, 16 degrees north latitude.] and (it was) westward, according to the shewing of our instruments, 75 degrees from the isles of Canary", also 16 degree north lattitude and 15+75 = 90-degrees western longitude (the Canary islands are about 15 degrees western longitude), which would place it in the Honduras-Belize-Nicaragua-region, which is not a part of South America. From here he tells he went north: "we sailed with the maestrale wind, [note 6: North-west] thus running along the coast with the land ever in sight", "we decided to leave that place, and to go further on, continuously coasting the shore", "go further onwards: we proceeded continuously skirting the coast". He gives also coordinates for the land he surveyed:"This land is within the torrid zone, close to or just under the parallel described by the Tropic of Cancer: where the pole of the horizon has an elevation of 23 degrees, at the extremity of the second climate. [note 12: That is, 23 degrees north latitude.]" That would suggest he sailed north following the Gulf of Mexico. From here onwards: "We took our dhparture from that port: and the province is called Lariab: and we navigated along the coast, always in sight of land, until we had run 870 leagues of it, still going in the direction of the maestrale (north-west) making in our course many halts". That should mean that he sailed to the southern coast of United States. From here he sailed east to Spain: "We had now been thirteen months on the voyage: and the vessels and the tackling were already much damaged, and the men worn out by fatigue: we decided by general council to haul our ships on land and examine them for the purpose of stanching leaks, as they made much water, and of caulking and tarring them afresh, and (then) returning towards Spain", "sailing for seven days out to sea between northeast and east", "and we thereon made sail for Spain with 222 captive slaves: and reached the port of Calis (Cadiz) on the 15th day of October, 1498, where we were well received and sold our slaves. Such is what befell me, most noteworthy, in this my first voyage." So even if we believe that Vespuccis first voyage actually happened, the document describing it shows us, that he would have been the founder of North America, not South.

By the way, it is claimed that John Cabot landed in North America 24 June 1497, but when studying the letter of Vespucci (if it is his letter), one notizes the following: "we set out from the port of Cadiz on the 10th day of May 1497", " till at the end of 37 days we reached a land which we deemed to be a continent", which (depending on the time it took for Vespucci to reach the Canarian islands and the time he spend there) would mean that Vespucci landed in Honduras in late June or early July, which might make him the discoverer of North America.

Here is one more reference I found challenging the existence of the Vespucci's first voyage: The Geographical Journal, Vol. 118, No. 3 (Sep., 1952): http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdfplus/1790319.pdf?acceptTC=true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.214.198.127 (talk) 19:52, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

The Bahamas and the Turks and Caicos Islands

The Bahamas and the Turks and Caicos Islands are part of the West Indies, but they lie in the Atlantic Ocean rather than the Caribbean Sea. (Please see the Limits of Oceans and Seas by the International Hydrographic Organization.) While the Bahamas and the Turks and Caicos Islands are part of the Caribbean Community and have cultural and economic ties with their Caribbean neighbors, they are considered a part of Northern America rather than the Caribbean. We need not perpetuate this common misconception. Yours aye,  Buaidh  14:22, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

I've never seen any definition of "Northern America" including the Bahamas and Turks and Caicos. And they are generally grouped together with the Caribbean so I don't think there's a problem. I noticed that the link West Indies redirects to Caribbean so again I don't see any problem. Both islands are overwelhmingly linked both culturally, geographically and economically to the Caribbean. But most importantly, both islands self-identify as Caribbean countries/territories. KarniFro^{( Talk to me)} 23:23, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

While the Bahamas and the Turks and Caicos Islands may identify culturally and economically with the nations of the Caribbean, the Lucayan Archipelago is clearly not in the Caribbean Sea. I may identify with Tahiti, but I am clearly not French Polynesian. -- Buaidh  17:58, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

I've included the following note:

<ref>Since the Lucayan Archipelago is located in the Atlantic Ocean rather than Caribbean Sea, the Bahamas are part of the West Indies but are not technically part of the Caribbean, although the United Nations groups them with the Caribbean.</ref> -- Buaidh  18:22, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

You might want to replace "technically" with geographically. And add a source. Rennell435 (talk) 16:34, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

I also do not think we were in the need of a note because it is a well known fact that those two islands belong to the Caribbean even if they are not technically there, as you say. But it is ok if this note will help a little to solve the problem you mention about perpetuating a misconception. On the other hand the note about Mexico is plainly wrong and could only help doing the opposite, to help keep a common misconception. ♥ Xuandy ♥ (Talk) 18:02, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Definition of geographic extent -- in this article vs. elsewhere

The lead paragraph of this article says that North America is bordered on the north by the Arctic Ocean, on the east by the North Atlantic Ocean, on the south and southeast by South America and the Caribbean Sea, and on the west by the North Pacific Ocean. I'm not sure how that geographic definition was arrived at there, but that definition is not universally subscribed to. How about saying something like "For purposes of this article, ...", and providing a footnote mentioning other geographic definitions? One such definition is the one in the United Nations geoscheme for the Americas (see note b in Composition of macro geographical (continental) regions, geographical sub-regions, and selected economic and other groupings, which reads, "The continent of North America (003) comprises Northern America (021), Caribbean (029), and Central America (013).")?

Incidentally, perhaps throwing gasoline on the discussion at #The Bahamas and the Turks and Caicos Islands above, I note that that U.N. geoscheme classifies Bahamas (044) and the Turks and Caicos Islands (796) as part of the Caribbean (029), which is grouped within North America (003), but not within with Northern America (021) -- which is grouped within the continent of North America (003). Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:46, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Good point. I changed the sentence to match the "subscribed," or universal, definition. Regarding the Lucayan Archipelago: none of it's islands have a coastline on the Caribbean Sea and in essence makes the archipelago separate of the Caribbean. The Caribbean article defines its islands (most of which are enclosed by the sea), and the surrounding coasts as Caribbean - it can be assumed "its islands" refer to those with a coastline on the Caribbean. Geographically, the archipelago is no more part of the Caribbean than Miami or Key West are. The only relations to the region are ones of a strictly political manner. 08OceanBeach^S.D. 01:16, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

The UN geoscheme is not a good example and it cannot be used in geographic matters, as the UN drew an arbitrary geographic division of the world for statistical convinience. They say that in their website. However I can totally see your point and I share it. OceanBeach already took care of this issue and reworte the lead paragraph very well. I think it is safe to say this problem is solved. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 01:43, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Spelling

The vast majority of English language speakers in North America use American English. American English should be used for all Wikipedia articles related to North America, including Central America and the Caribbean, except as follows:

• North American English
  • American English
  • Bermudian English in Bermuda.
  • Canadian English in Canada.
• Caribbean English in Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Barbados, Belize, the British Virgin Islands, the Cayman Islands, Dominica, Grenada, Jamaica, Montserrat, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines.
  • Bahamian English in the Bahamas and the Turks and Caicos Islands.
  • Trinidadian English in Trinidad and Tobago

Yours aye,  Buaidh  17:45, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree American English should be used in this article. KarniFro^{( Talk to me)} 18:21, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

potential resource

The North American Idea: A Vision of a Continental Future by Robert A. Pastor, Reviewed by By Richard Feinberg Foreign Affairs November/December 2011 14:17, 8 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.19.44.155 (talk)

Updates

This article is locked and cannot be updated to reflect actual data. The Chicago metropolitan area does not have 9.4 million people, it is at 9.6 million (MSA) and 9.8 million (CSA). Chicago is about to break the 10 million mark, yet this article gives data from how long ago? Can we please have this updated? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 (talk) 17:35, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Central America?

Is Central America and the caribbean part of North America?? :/. My opinion is: In the continent there are 3 subcontinents: North America, Central America and South America. it's obvious. if the article is right, why they are articles of Central America and Caribbean??????? Chuyalex (talk) 19:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

This is addressed in the "Geography and extent" section and the page linked to there, Geography of North America. In short, Central America is usually but not always included, as its page says. The Caribbean islands are, I believe, usually included as well, but its page is less clear. Might be worth digging up some good sources and clarifying both this page and the Caribbean page. Pfly (talk) 19:37, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Ah, well, Encyclopedia Britannica says the Caribbean Islands are part of North America. I'll add that info. Pfly (talk) 19:42, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I AGREE WITH YOU — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.59.70.99 (talk) 14:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 25 June 2012

North America is not a continent. It is a sub-continent. In the first paragraph says that it is a continent and then in third line says that it is a subcontinent. And North America is only Canada, USA, and Mexico. The other countries are CENTRAL AMERICA, another sub-continent.

207.59.70.99 (talk) 14:40, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Not done: This is incorrect. Ryan Vesey Review me! 20:39, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

It depends on the specific model you use, but there are virtually no academics who would dispute that North America is a continent. Different countries advocate different models for different reasons. This is trivial at best. 68.227.166.94 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:26, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

  Usage of the term North America

Outside the USA, going into the twentieth century, the whole American continent (North, Central and South America as well as the Caribbean) IS referred simply as "America" NOT "The Americas" (That term is rarely used in all the other countries of the American continent); America, one of the "Six Continents" (the other five being, Europe, Asia, Africa, Antarctica and Oceania). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.70.45.184 (talk) 20:28, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

This claim gets repeated from time to time, but as a Canadian living in Britain, let me say "Ha Ha Ha ... No". Feel free to look for a reliable source that claims as much, but I'd advise against it; you won't find one, because it isn't true. Cheers, WilyD 22:03, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 September 2012

Please reduce Central America Total Population from 541,720,440 to 41,739,000 because

 307,000  +
4,579,000 +
6,163,000 +
14,027,000 +
7,466,000 +
5,743,000 +
3,454,000 
=  41,739,000

Mindhams (talk) 10:24, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Not done: 541,720,440 is the total population of North America, not just Central America. Callanecc (alt) (talk) 11:20, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 September 2012

I would like ASL (American Sign Language) to be added under the official list of languages in North America. It used by a large percentage of Deaf and Hard of Hearing Americans and has been recognized as an official language since the 1970's. It seems only right for it to be included! Thanks! Mandarbeezy (talk) 08:50, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Undoubtedly ASL is in widespread use in the Americas, but as far as I know, there is no nation or other administrative region that recognizes ASL as an official language of state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mediatech492 (talk • contribs) 20 September 2012

Date format

This 2008-JAN-01 edit seems to be the first to introduce a date format.--JimWae (talk) 00:06, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Population history of indigenous peoples of the Americas

I would like to edit Post Columbian, North America. The part about the European diseases. I want to add the names of the diseases(such as smallpox, measles, influenza)and the percent of Native Americans that decreased from one period of time to another.Kileyliang368 (talk) 01:54, 13 November 2012 (UTC)Kiley(Newbie)

There's actually an article Population history of indigenous peoples of the Americas which covers that topic in some depth; it should be wiki-linked from here, I'm not sure why it's not. WilyD 06:18, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

American Standards

Believe that before the population charts for metropolitan areas, it should be listed that Canada and the U.S.A go by different standards. It should be stated that, by American standards, the Golden Horseshoe is Toronto's metro, and that Chicago and Toronto are relatively the same in metro size.

TheCanadianGuy123 (talk) 01:28, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Disruption on the long-debated-over-the-years "Mexico is Central America"

This is frankly exhausting. I also suspect sockpuppetry. We all know who might be behing this. He's the only person that has always been supporting the "Mexico is in Central America" or "Mexico is in Middle America" debate. Lots of information has been shared, debated and we reached a stable, sticked-to-the-truth version without right-wing, excluding definitions. This article has been in peace for months now, more than a year that I remember.

Mexico is not part of Central America. The "UN geoscheme" was devised purely "for statistical convinience" and the UN aknowledges that. This "new" user is trying to use that argument again, ignoring the overwhelming evidence that does not classify Mex in C. America.

Next thing we'll see is that he's going to preffer Mexico classified under "Middle America"... all to avoid the plain truth: Mexico along with Canada, US, Greenland and St. Pierre and sometimes Bermuda are part of N. America. Period. Thanks for reading this. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 10:27, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Ok, the new user is also obsessed with Oceania stuff, Eurasia stuff and of course, "subregion" stuff. Same edit pattern, same intention to introduce the same old POV, now "disguised" between basketball stuff. I think we need to call an administrator. The same old user has been proved to be active recently (several other sockpuppets were blocked in the past weeks). This is like WP:Duck.AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 10:31, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Don't forget he's also obsessed with "Stuff-Stuff stuff". — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrCorrector1 (talk • contribs) 23:34, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

"North America is a continent wholly within the Northern Hemisphere and almost wholly within the Western Hemisphere. It is also considered a northern subcontinent of the Americas." that's not correct, North America is not a continent, AMERICA is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SusanaJD (talk • contribs) 04:34, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Depends on the continental model you are using. In the 7 continent model commonly used in English speaking countries, North America and South America are separate continents. --Khajidha (talk) 22:00, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Caribbean and Atlantic

Note 4 says: Since the Lucayan Archipelago is located in the Atlantic Ocean rather than Caribbean Sea
However, Caribbean Sea article has this: The Caribbean Sea is a sea of the Atlantic Ocean. So, actually all Caribbean islands are also in the Atlantic Ocean. Maybe it could be put as "proper" Atlantic or something like that to make the difference clear. The Atlantic Ocean article only gives "Atlantic without its adjacent seas", not a very term for that. 82.141.67.208 (talk) 01:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Do we prefer miles or kilos here?

I started wondering this when I was trying to unify our measurement system. Before I got to it, the page was using both SI (non-SI) and non-SI (SI) formats for our lengths and areas. I went ahead and made them all kilometres (miles), and was wondering if anybody had any objections to this. I have no preference, and it's not a problem for me to change it to the other direction.

Anybody strongly feel we should use US units as the primary system of measurement with the others in parentheses, or that we should keep it as is?

I'm going to see if I can help out with those Spanish citations, by the way.

meteor_sandwich_yum (talk) 01:00, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

From what I've seen, the system which is used by locals is used. About 60 percent of the areas population is in the USA, so the non-SI units are used by majority. However, it is only one country, and there are 22 other countries and 22 dependent territories which use the SI/metric system. So, I don't know how this is supposed to be. 82.141.67.208 (talk) 22:22, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

The usual practice is to use whatever variety of English is most appropriate to the article, and failing that to never change an article from one variety of English to another without a compelling reason (thus we keep both Orange (colour) and Silver (color) where they are, since neither mandate a particular dialect of English). The earliest version of this article used SI units [1], so I think it's probably best to keep it like that. I'd suggest it should ultimately use a consistent variety of English, which might be American English; but I see no reason to prefer one North American English over another. The article might reasonably be rendered in Canadian or Jamaican English, for instance, but this kind of thing gets peoples' nationalism up a lot, eh? WilyD 13:55, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

See also WP:NATIONAL. WilyD 13:56, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

 Closed I'm going to side with SI units, then meteor_sandwich_yum (talk) 02:28, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2014

On the map in the top right corner, Greenland is marked as a part of North America.

Greenland is a part of Denmark. 212.93.55.37 (talk) 13:33, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

 Not done This would require a change to File:Location North America.svg (see File talk:Location North America.svg), but although the Greenland article says "Greenland is an autonomous country within the Kingdom of Denmark," it also says it is "physiographically a part of the continent of North America". – Wbm1058 (talk) 13:59, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

The biggest cities is missing the San Francisco Bay Area

Like New York, the SF Bay Area is a combination of many areas; San Francisco: Manhattan, Oakland: Brooklyn, etc. We're real over here on the west coast!

And this is our population: 7 Mil. http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/bayarea.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.120.18 (talk) 16:56, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

• FYI. New York City (Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten Island) are boroughs, not cities They're all under the Mayor of New York City. Boston would also be a lot larger if you counted up all the surrounding cities (with their own Mayors). The link you quote is that covered by a single mayor? CaribDigita (talk) 19:53, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

The list is a list of "Metropolitan Areas," a metropolitan area is not limited by the number of governors, but by it's nature as a single stretch of people. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/metropolitan+area Because the Bay Area identifies as 7 counties and many cities, we are still one metro area. Looking at Los Angeles, the city only has a population of 3.8 mil, and the number of the rest of the metropolitan area adds up to 12.8 mil. There are over 100 cities included in this article's definition of Los Angeles Metropolitan Area. If you looked at the population of San Francisco and ruled out the area as a whole, you're only looking at the very tip of a peninsula.

Clipperton Island

is not in the Carribean! 206.177.43.70 (talk) 03:08, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Fair point, since it is off the Pacific coast of Mexico, should it go in the North America or Central America section? Mediatech492 (talk) 16:46, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

I agree it should be in north America as it is in the same general area as other islands of Mexico. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.134.60 (talk) 19:41, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Central America cont.

This is interesting because I did learn this in the US but I can say that it was never said that Central America was a continent. Why is there a page on wikipedia for Central America which doesn't include Mexico? Seems silly that Mexico is a part of the North American group as it has little cultural connection...well at least these days. With all the changes, I am sure there will be more connection in the future. I hate to say though, I still won't accept Mexico or Mexicans as North Americans. Even in Mexico, Mexicans call people from the US 'Norte Americanos' Mexicans are much like the other states in the central landmass south of the border.183.89.210.212 (talk) 13:06, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Are they really that different? The differences between Northern Mexican states and Southern USA ones are really not that many, as much as racists would like to believe otherwise. That's one of the reasons I personally consider separating America into two continents to be silly: it was and still is a cultural continuum from Murchison Promontory to Magallanes with very few exceptions. 190.109.207.7 (talk) 18:39, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

And before you ask, no I'm not trying to defy the consensus there and saying that it must be done as I'd prefer. 190.109.207.7 (talk) 18:41, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Middle America includes Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Panama. Central America is all of that excluding Mexico. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dunkleosteus77 (talk • contribs) 19:51, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Humans in North America

There are two main theories of how humans arrived in North America. The Bering Land Bridge (Beringia) is the most popular theory , but some scientists believe that they could've come from France (because of their shared Clovis technology) which is known as the Solutrean hypothesis, named after the Solutrean Period in France when they probably migrated across . However, the Solutrean Hypothesis is rejected within the scientific community.

References

4/9/15 Dunkleosteus77 (talk) 19:54, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

What happened to Central America?

It was taught that the American Continent was divided in 3. North, Middle and South America. You have divided it into two, which I think is incorrect and then show maps with the way is supposed to be, meaning 3 parts. Besides being confusing, I believe Central America it's it's own section. Otherwise, we well.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:BC1E:E1D0:8C96:A7CA:62D9:E2BD (talk) 16:57, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

What country were you in when you were taught that? Most English-speaking countries use the 7-continent model, in which North and South America are considered 2 different continents, and Central America snd the Caribbean are a part of North America. Countries in Latin America and parts of Europe, especially the Romance-language countries, use the 6-continent model, in which America is a single continent with 3 subcontinents, North, Central, and South. English WP uses the 7 continent model, while Spanish WP uses the 6-continent model. Neither continent model is incorrect, just different. - BilCat (talk) 23:43, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Middle America includes the central american countries (Guatemala, El Salvador, Belize, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama) and Mexico. Dunkleosteus77 (talk) 19:56, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2015

Please change the following passage from the Pre-Columbian subsection of the History section of the North America article "The consensus is that indigenous North Americans first arrived from Asia during the last Ice Age, most likely through the Bering Land Bridge" to "There are two main theories of how humans arrived in North America. The Bering Land Bridge (Beringia) is the most popular theory , but some scientists believe that they could've come from France (because they share the Clovis technology) which is known as the Solutrean hypothesis, named after the Solutrean Period in France when they probably migrated across . However, the Solutrean Hypothesis is rejected within the scientific community. "

References

Dunkleosteus77 (talk) 00:21, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

If it's rejected, why should we even bother mentioning it? Stickee (talk) 00:33, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Kharkiv07^Talk 03:32, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Table

Not sure if this is where I post this, but is there a problem with the table? I'm having a hard time sorting the countries by area, population, etc. Thank you. 71.165.37.17 (talk) 06:34, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Ah, yes, it appears to be caused by the sub-region titles, but sorting the countries by sub-regions doesn't really make sense in an article about North America anyways - so I just removed them. Should work. If it don't, let us know. WilyD 07:17, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Mexico isn't part of North America

In many parts of the world, including South East Asia, North America doesn't include Mexico. Mexico is part of Central America and therefore wouldn't be included in descriptions of North America. If I told someone to name all the countries in North America, they wouldn't include Mexico, would they? Central America is more likely to be included in South America, not North America.

According to Britannica: "According to some authorities, North America begins not at the Isthmus of Panama but at the narrows of Tehuantepec, with the intervening region called Central America. Under such a definition, part of Mexico must be included in Central America, although that country lies mainly in North America proper. To overcome this anomaly, the whole of Mexico, together with Central and South American countries, also may be grouped under the name Latin America, with the United States and Canada referred to as Anglo-America."

To USA people: I was taught to think that Latin America = South America, so Mexico would be part of Southern America. I think the article needs to reflect this thinking.

171.99.140.19 (talk) 23:54, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

There's a whole article here: Americas (terminology) - but in general, because people use conflicting terminology, it's impossible to an article that's faithful to all of them. The usual usage (in English) is that Central America is a part of North America (in a geographic sense North America + South America = The Americas - actually, the claim that Anglo-America counters Latin America isn't really common, usually anglophones contrast North America (= America, Canada, Greenland, Bermuda, St. Pete & Mickey) with Latin America (which I've never seen not include Mexico). Southern America is Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas et al. Mexico ain't figure into it. (And, of course, there's a lot of pressure from some Latin Americans to make our articles match Spanish usage, rather than English usage, which further complicates it.) WilyD 08:52, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

The consensus is that Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador, Belize, Guatemala, Mexico, U.S.A., Canada, Greater Antilles, and Lesser Antilles are part of North America. Colombia, Venezuela, Guyana, Suriname, French Guyana, Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Bolivia, Chile, Peru and Ecuador are all part of South America. Dunkleosteus77 ^{(push to talk)} 21:14, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 July 2015

2001:4610:D:6:15B9:C84D:24F8:F7B5 (talk) 09:19, 23 July 2015 (UTC) "In Canadian English, North America may be used to refer to the United States and Canada together.[8] Alternatively, usage sometimes includes Greenland[9][10][11] and Mexico (as in the North American Free Trade Agreement),[10][12][13][14][15] as well as offshore islands."

Citation references a BRITISH English dictionary, where the back-cover even specifically says it has a British and American slant. This is not Canadian english.

Not done: Please specifically state what you want us to do. Do you want us to nix the citation? Or do you want us to change "Canadian English" to something else? Please clarify and then reactivate this request. Altamel (talk) 15:58, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

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Mexico is part of North America

In response to the previous section, Mexico IS part of North America. The CIA Book of Facts [2] places Mexico as part of North America, as well as the NAFTA. Some wrote that Mexico is part of Latin America, and it is true, but Latin America is not a continent, is a cultural area. 20:21, 15 October 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by M cyclops (talk • contribs)

Puerto Rico isn't a country

How come under the countries by GDP both nominal and PPP Puerto Rico is included? Puerto Rico isn't a country, it's a territory of the United States making the list inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danny20111993 (talk • contribs) 15:46, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

no blanket statement

I think its best we dont use this one study as others dont say the same thing....best to wait for reviews before making a blanket claim..the debate is outlined at Genetic history of indigenous peoples of the Americas

• first POV (2015 study)
• second POV.(2015 study)

Again all this is better covered at the parent article

-- Moxy (talk) 15:55, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Since i got reverted again with no reply for either editor i have rewritten the section with real source...left the new one there despite my concerns as raised above. -- Moxy (talk) 02:34, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 December 2015

70.26.67.143 (talk) 19:43, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. - a boat that can float! (happy holidays) 19:45, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Information agreement

Hoping I'm not out of line, but I noticed some facts are worded differently than the article Americas. Some outright contradict each other, specifically with regards to whether Vespucci suspected South America to be separate from Asia

66.87.117.141 (talk) 14:15, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 24 May 2016

i wanna edit.

Unreliablewebsite (talk) 22:45, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Amccann421 (talk) 22:46, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

You have be a registered user for 4 days before being able to edit semi-protected pages like this one. You're already registered so just wait 4 days or so   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  23:21, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

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Subcontinent?

First paragraph contains the sentence "It can also be considered a northern subcontinent of the Americas.[2]" . The citation is Encyclopedia Brittanica, but the North America EB article cited doesn't support the "subcontinent" claim, and neither does the EB "Americas" article. 2001:470:1F0F:287:0:0:0:15A8 (talk) 23:57, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Name

Currently, the entire "Name" section of this article is a discursus on the derivation of the more-general term "America." This is relevant but not fully explanatory, given that the article is "North America" — not "America." This section should include information on the origin of the specific term "North America." When was the term itself first used? By whom? What was meant by it? What other uses have emerged — and when, and by whom? Johnlumea (talk) 21:09, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2016

Toronto needs to be moved above Chicago in "Largest Urban Centers"

Mufin777 (talk) 18:26, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

 Not done The specifc source cited gives Toronto 6,456,000 and Chicago 9,156,000
Although there are different figures in other sources, Toronto's are all about 6 million and Chicago's about 9 Million - Arjayay (talk) 18:42, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Article Issues

I read through the article and did not find any issues. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.93.98.214 (talk) 00:20, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2016

there are 50 states in the USA, part of North America

2602:306:BCEF:1E90:907B:62DA:4EAC:6BAD (talk) 02:44, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — JJMC89 (T·C) 03:25, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

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Philadelphia links to Delaware Valley

Philadelphia in the list of largest cities links to Delaware Valley instead — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:1A52:5D00:A8EF:C1A0:6F2A:A024 (talk) 16:25, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, it does, as it is supposed to. - BilCat (talk) 23:21, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Geographic inconsistencies

Comparing data, I noticed that if you compare the area value for the continent listed on this page (24,709,000 km²) it differs from the area value listed on Geography of North America (21,346,000 km²) significantly. Is it perhaps that these are both correct but looking at a different frame of reference (land only vs land and sea together). If so, they should likely be rectified because the discrepancy is likely to confuse people. Gwenhope (talk) 19:25, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2020

Add the name Turtle Island as atleast a secondary name for North America, as it is it's precolonial, original name in many native cultures. LeoC10 (talk) 21:59, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. It's not clear what changes you want to make. Furthermore, any addition of information like this must be accompanied by a reliable source to verify it. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 00:35, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm constantly hearing references to Turtle Island in Canada, so some mention of this in the article, beyond the see also section is needed. Perhaps it can be added to the section North America#Name? Re another sources see "Turtle Island", Canadian Encylopaedia" online. Rwood128 (talk) 15:49, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2021

In the list of largest cities in North America, it does not list Phoenix, Arizona, which is larger than half the cities listed in that section. 71.209.244.93 (talk) 23:08, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. BilCat (talk) 23:13, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Continent?

To specific that North America is just one continent into an anglo-saxon perspective, since there are others cultures that dont't take it as a continent itself but a SUBcontinent along with South America, taking the knowing that name America was first used in Waldseemüller's Map (1507) and it was written in today's Brazil (South America) as a separated and differend mainland from today's North America ("Parias" in Waldseemüller's map). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Izhar vm (talk • contribs)

Yes, that's all true, but what is your point? BilCat (talk) 00:09, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2021

Spyjinx (talk) 16:45, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 16:56, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Guantanamo Bay?

I'm a bit confused why Guantanamo Bay is listed as a separate entry on the list of countries and territories as it's just a naval base on Cuba, an island that is also part of North America. Especially since other similar military bases such as Soto Cano Air Base in Honduras and the Atlantic Undersea Test and Evaluation Center in The Bahamas aren't also listed. EnzoTC (talk) 21:42, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 February 2022

In the list of countries in North America, it has the flag and coat of arms next to each country. The coat of arms of the US should be the eagle holding arrows and branches with "e pluribus unum" held in its mouth. As it stands, it only shows the shield that the eagle is wearing. Rebelyis (talk) 20:40, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. BilCat (talk) 20:43, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

@BilCat:, is that edit request seriously unclear to you regarding what changes the editor is requesting? Or is it just too much work to respond with a "Not done for now" with a brief explanation of what steps need to be done in order to address the request? Complaining about the editor phrasing it as "this should be this instead of that" rather than "please change this to that" like you're some kind of a bot from a 1940s computer (which I know you aren't) is pedantic and unhelpful. If it's too much of a hassel for you to handle (which I fully sympathise with), let someone else address it - it doesn't have to be addressed by any one editor, and I'm sure there's someone that specialises in stuff like this that will know what to do. 2600:1702:4960:1DE0:D42D:C988:6781:A80A (talk) 10:09, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: The coat of arms is just the shield. The rest of that is the Achievement (heraldry). ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:57, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2022

change 2018 pop. of Venezuela from 2,155 to 28,887,118 198.73.222.6 (talk) 04:30, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Venezuela is in South America. Only the Federal Dependencies of Venezuela are listed in the table as being in North America, not all of Venezuela. BilCat (talk) 04:50, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Why is America divided as two separate continents?

Since when did people start recognizing NA as a continent different from SA and why is that? The article mentions "it also can be considered a subcontinent of a single continent, America." but I never heard of this division until today. And because of this I found out Central America isn't even considered as a separate thing (mind you I'm not implying it would be a continent, I'm just saying there is no such thing as "The continent of North America" and "The continent of South America", I think it's just America). I just would like to know where did this come from. 2806:269:406:7D5:1C1A:B108:19B6:303B (talk) 08:41, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, this page is for discussing the article itself and not a forum for the article's topic. You can learn about continent defintions at Continent. QuincyMorgan (talk)

While true, since the issue of why isn't mentioned in the article at all, I think it is an appropriate question. A full answer really isn't appropriate, however, so you're right about that. I'm glad the user chose to ask "why", instead of just changing the article to their preferred view, and or posting here about how it's wrong. We get far too much of that anyway! Also, Americas#Etymology and naming briefly covers how the usage was changed in the US. BilCat (talk) 23:28, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023

There is a typo in the second sentence of the Culture section. It says".S." instead of U.S. 24.158.130.209 (talk) 12:39, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done BilCat (talk) 12:56, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Central America

Can we get make central America gray on the map because it's just a subregion of North America it is a subregion of the Americas in general, though I wish it were its own continent Hellonature (talk) 05:41, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Or we can make it light green but if that is we will also have to make it light green in South America page Hellonature (talk) 05:43, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, but no. In English-speaking countries and some others, Central America is generally considered part of the continent of North America. That's why it's green on the map. BilCat (talk) 05:48, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia constructs articles on the information provided to us by reliable sources. Most of them (at least in English) appear to group Central America with North America. LostKlaus (talk) 01:46, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Mention continent America in lead.

In the article on South America, it is directly mentioned that some countries consider it and North America a single continent. However, in this article, it is only mentioned in a note. For consistency I think it would make sense to put how some countries consider it a single continent with South America on the lead of this article. Thoughts? 216.207.176.186 (talk) 00:14, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

In the English language, North and South America are considered separate continents, but there is an ongoing dispute over whether they should be combined into a single continent. Unfortunately, there is no universally accepted answer to this question. As Wikipedia editors, we construct articles based on the sources available in the references section, and the sources we have used for this article separate North and South America. In Spanish-speaking cultures (such as my own), it is more common to consider the Americas as a single continent. Additionally, some definitions of North America include Central America and the Caribbean, while others exclude them. For the purposes of this article, we have used sources that consider Central America and the Caribbean to be part of North America. LostKlaus (talk) 14:55, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

To provide an example in support of my earlier statement, if you look at the North America article on the Spanish-language Wikipedia, you will find that their definition of North America only includes the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. This is because, in Spanish language and culture, the Americas are often divided into four regions: North America (comprising the U.S., Canada, and Mexico), Central America, the Caribbean, and South America. This is a different approach from that used in English, where different rules apply for classifying regions. In this article, we have used sources that combine Central America and the Caribbean as part of North America, but in the Spanish-language sources used by the Spanish Wikipedia, these regions are considered distinct. LostKlaus (talk) 15:06, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

I understand that in the English language, North and South America are considered separate continents, and that Wikipedia should recognize that. What I am confused by is the lack of consistency. In the South America lead section, the Americas are mentioned as a single continent, but the North America lead section does not. Why? Since both continents are occasionally considered as one, why does the lead section of just one of the continents mention this? I feel like it would make more sense for either both pages to mention this in the lead, or none, for consistencies' sake. 216.207.176.186 (talk) 17:26, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Barely any mention of ethnic North Americans under "Culture"

The focus seems to be almost entirely on Americans that are ethnically European and imported languages such as English and French. This is absurd. 31.20.106.40 (talk) 07:37, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America

I wish to contribute to this talk page. I take issue with the definition here of North America. It seems to be based on the UN definition, which - as I read yesterday but can no longer find the article - was in effect handed to the U.S.A. to deal with. It is a definition based essentially on socio-political factors, which completely ignores geological realities.

For simplicity's sake, I suggest readers search, on google, "detailed view of tectonic plate boundaries central america, caribbean." The URL is truly massive so what I suggest seems it would be a much easier way of locating this site. This search should bring up a google site with many maps. It is quite clear from these maps that most of Central America - 5 of the 7 countries, plus bits of the other two - are most definitely not part of the North American tectonic plate, massive as it is. Actually, Central America was raised above sea level by various plate movements about 3 mya (million years ago), and until such time North and South America were widely separated. Most of what is now Central America is geologically definitely not part of North America, but instead is part of the Caribbean tectonic plate, as are many of the islands mentioned in the article said incorrectly to be part of N. America. These islands include Hispaniola (Haiti and Dominican Republic), Puerto Rico, Jamaica, and the Lesser Antilles. (Ironically, from a modern political perspective, Cuba is located on the N. American plate.) It is important to bear in mind that Central America is not part of N. America: it is an isthmus formed 3 million years ago connecting the North and South American plates, and is itself, except for Belize and most of Guatemala, part of the Caribbean tectonic plate.

It therefore seems to me that such information should be included in a Wiki article such as this on the subject of what constitutes North America. Or else, at the very least, the article as it stands should be upfront about its biases and state that it reflects socio-political realities including cultural and linguistic realities, and does not reflect the geological reality that much of the land the article says is part of N. America is most definitely not so. A lot of this "reality", e.g., Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico, is only North American based on ignorance of basic geological science and American political realities at the time when the UN passed off the matter of defining North America to the U.S.A. RaffiGetz (talk) 09:44, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 July 2023

Change: "Northern America" is distinct term from "North America", excluding Central America, which itself may or may not include Mexico.

To: "Northern America" is a distinct term from "North America", excluding Central America, which itself may or may not include Mexico. ResonantD (talk) 23:38, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done ULPS (talk) 01:35, 16 July 2023 (UTC)