Talk:Richard Branson/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Virgin Group

moved details of virgin companies to the Virgin Group page. Grunners 02:08, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Sir Richard Branson

Surely as this is his name, the page should be renamed?

Just off the top of my head, neither Arthur C. Clarke nor Arthur Conan Doyle have their articles in the wiki as "Sir". It's a title, not a name change; it would make the same amount of sense as renaming John Kerry's article to President John Kerry if he had won. A redirect from Sir Richard Branson to Richard Branson already exists.--Ben Brockert 23:20, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)

Should his name in the first paragraph now have "Rev" prefixed to the start?203.214.20.143 14:00, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Controversy

there's no controversy section about Branson, and there are sources (such as the Bower biography) which indicate controversion behaviour on Branson's part. As similar articles in Wikipedia have such sections, I recommend one created for Branson as well.

- This entry is so blatantly self-promoting that I would not care to even try to add a listing about Branson's temper tantrum on the Colbert Report. It should be listed, however...

It's been listed for a week. NcSchu_(Talk) 23:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

-- which entry is self promoting? The Branson one or my suggestion that a controversy section be included? I'm not Tom Bower :) I just think we need to see both sides of the guy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.117.218.129 (talk) 10:41, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

I agree - I can't help thinking that Sir Richard could hardly have improved on the article if he'd written it himself. He's a resourceful, highly motivated individual who has achieved a lot in his life. That doesn't just happen to someone because he's a nice guy. He is not unique in that; any businessman has at times been fairly brutal, in his dealings with both his rivals and his associates. The article as it currently stands makes it sound as though he walks on water spreading peace and love everywhere.

In my opinion, the biography by Bower makes his attitude to Branson very clear: he doesn't like him at all. Consequently, the book does need to be approached with care. There is plenty of factual material in it which will stand up, though. --Stephen Burnett 11:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

ADD

Is there any official source claiming that Richard Branson have an Attention Deficit Disorder? This would be important to add it to the page as this have a major influence on things he made in is life.

Early life

Perhaps some mention of his formative years might be useful, perhaps more information on his first successful venture- "Student magazine"

And also a correct timeline for it, the summary at the top says it was started when Branson was 15, but then a couple paragraphs later says 16. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.130.23.226 (talk) 16:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

"King"?

I quote from the "Biography" section, sixth paragraph:

"After the so-called campaign of "dirty tricks," Branson sued rival airline British Airways for libel in 1992. King countersued Branson..."

Who is King? I can find no mention of him anywhere else in the article.

-> King is Lord King (previously Sir) of British Airways, the then Chairman.

KBE

Is he really a KBE? I can't find a source for that (all the Google results are for articles derived from this page!) Normally British citizens become Knight Bachelor. KBEs are usually given as honourary KBE to people like Bill Gates who aren't entitled to call themselves "Sir". However, they are sometimes given to Britons living abroad such as Sir Tim Berners-Lee (presumably because in some countries they are unlikely to be called "Sir" even if they are entitled to it...) So I'm interested to know if Sir Richard is really a KBE.

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/12/99/new_years_honours/584131.stm - "KNIGHTS BACHELOR". Thanks/wangi 10:56, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Quote: KBEs are usually given as honourary KBE to people like Bill Gates who aren't entitled to call themselves "Sir".

Wrong - where on earth did you get this idea from? Most (but not all by any means) knighthoods given to any non-HM Government recipients (honorary or not) are KBEs (DBEs for women). Look at the articles about the British honours system. A KBE is a Knight Bachelor of the Order of the British Empire - the same Order as the more numerous and familiar CBE (Commander of the Order of...), OBE (Officer...) and MBE (Member...). There is absolutely no relation between the Order of a particular award and the right to be called "Sir". By the way, the award of Knight Bachelor - which is not part of the Order of the British Empire - is usually for male public servants and most definitely not "British citizens" generally. 86.17.247.135 00:07, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Good article!

I've reviewed this - I did a bit of general copyediting that it seemed to need. Otherwise, it seems great. Metamagician3000 06:49, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

External Links

I've removed a couple of links that were merely spamming. Bransonblog.com isn't a serious site and has only intermittent postings. Virginbrand.com is similarly unprofessional and only sponging hits from the page. I added RichardBranson.com which is the official gateway to all the virgin companies. I know its difficult to separate real websites with serious content and high visitor rates from the chaff as there are so many virgin websites out there. Richard Branson 05:34, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Removed mediaman link.

• Unofficial Branson "Quest For The Best" website - Media Man Australia

He can't even spell Rebel!

GA review

After reading the current article ([2]) I have these comments for the editors :

• The prose needs a copyediting in the Life and career section.
• The embedded HTML links should be formatted as inline citations.
• This statement : He has a son Sam, 21 and a daughter Holly, 24 (2006) is non-notable trivia.
• It is tough to seperate the Virgin company from the guy in the article. It that I mean, did he decide everything or was that a company's decision?
• Although Branson says his success was not planned, and it just happened, he has said that he has 10 secrets to success: would be better with an inline citation.
• He is the No 1 Admired Businessman in Britain, and 2nd choice amongst youth for Prime Minister (after Tony Blair) [3]. He has a cameo appearance in the new Superman film, credited as "Shuttle Engineer", alongside his son Sam, with Virgin Galactic-esque commercial suborbital shuttle at the center of his storyline. He will have a cameo in the upcoming James Bond film Casino Royale as well. isn't part of his business exploits, it is more about outside the business trivia/facts.
• What does close means in He was again seen as close to the government when the Labour Party came to power in 1997.?
• Branson has described himself as a libertarian. is that true? if so, maybe a citation would help that statement.

These are some comments that may prevent the article from retaining its GA status. Please be sure to comment this review if you disagree with any of the comments or want more explanation. Lincher 15:51, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Statements on family and media appearances might be a bit trivial, but such information is frequently included in biographies (I would actually ask for family status if I reviewed it and there was nothing on it), but the lack of sources for important statements is a very valid reason to delist the article. Please proceed and delist, otherwise I will feel compelled to do so. Bravada, talk - 18:35, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Proper GA review

As we have just agreed that more thorough and comprehensive review summaries need to be placed on talk pages when promoting/failing/delisting articles, I believe we owe one to this article too. Here I go (WP:WIAGA criteria in italics, review comments in normal type):

1. It is well written. In this respect:

(a) it has compelling prose, and is readily comprehensible to non-specialist readers;

I don't think the prose is all that compelling. It reads more like a collection of various information on Branson, and the style varies from formal to fairly informal (and I think the latter is not very appropriate for an encyclopedic article). In the "Life and career" section the second paragraph talks about Virgin Records to suddenly mention that "he" purchased a gay club. What "he"? Is Virgin Records masculine? Another example that just occurred to me on second reading - seems like Branson "suffered from curious spirit". This sentence needs some attention too.

I must admit I might fall in the "specialist" category here, but I believe the article is actually fairly comprehensible to all readers given its "everyday life" topic, though the style makes it confusing at times (see above) and there could be more wikilinks (see below).

(b) it follows a logical structure, introducing the topic and then grouping together its coverage of related aspects; where appropriate, it contains a succinct lead section summarising the topic, and the remaining text is organised into a system of hierarchical sections (particularly for longer articles);

As mentioned above, the article is more of a collection of information than a well-structured text, there are many one-line paragraphs while other are quite long. Ideally, the article should consist of 4-6 line paragraphs focused on a topic and easy to read.

Section captions (only top-level ones) are used sparingly and are two first ones are pretty irrelevant to the contents of the sections. The first two sections seem to try to provide a summary of Branson's biography chronologically, including his business ventures, but the latter one suddenly breaks into the "transformational leader" stuff and what looks like a bunch of stuff just dumped together. The controversy section mentions Branson's enthusiasm towards cannabis, but does not mention any actual controversy related to that. I also do not see any mention of an actual controversy concerning the price-fixing scheme. Being parodied is hardly an "honour". My feeling is that there is a serious cleanup needed.

The lead section mentions the fact about the Virgin name, which would better fit somewhere inside the article. Nothing is said about Branson's "adventures" though, for one, and in general there is no information in the summary about how Branson is different from other millionaires (and I believe the article somehow proves he is).

(c) it follows the Wikipedia Manual of Style including the list guideline:

I am not an expert on that, and there are other, more important reasons to delist the article, so excuse me for not reviewing the article thoroughly for that, but I think listing Branson's "secrets" in such a short article is unnecessary - it would be better to link to an external source here. It would also be better to present the dates (years) of birth of Branson's children than their age that has to be accompanied by an ugly and ambigious mention of the date the information was correct on.

(d) necessary technical terms or jargon are briefly explained in the article itself, or an active link is provided.

The article is comprehensible in general, though I believe words like "budgie" (I guess this means a budgerigar) could be linked to allow better understanding by users who might not be familiar with such words (not a "specialist" word, but many non-native speakers might not know what it means). Also e.g. dyslexia and maverick could be linked. (UPDATE: Oh wow, there seems to be nowhere to link maverick to, and it should be! This is not this article's flaw, though...)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable. In this respect:

(a) it provides references to any and all sources used for its material;

Discussed below.

(b) the citation of its sources using inline citations is required;

There are some embedded links in lieu of inline citations (which do not satisfy the criterium anyway), but overall this is the article's weakest side. Given the number of controversial and potentially questionable statements, the article should be rife with inline citations, beginning with Bransons "sometimes being called SRB" through the "mention in management lexicon" (what lexicon actually?) to his describing himself as libertarian. There is actually even a "citation needed" template used in the article!

On the other hand, the "external links" section seems bloated and contains items that are quite out of place there, but should be rather quoted as sources.

(c) sources should be selected in accordance with the guidelines for reliable sources;

The books in "references" look OK to me, though one is missing an ISBN, but I'd be careful about online sources like "e-stoned.com"...

(d) it contains no elements of original research.

Until inline citations appear in this article, almost everything could be original research.

3. It is broad in its coverage. In this respect :

(a) it addresses all major aspects of the topic (this requirement is slightly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required by WP:FAC, and allows shorter articles and broad overviews of large topics to be listed);

I don't have a feeling the article gives a good overview of Branson. There is no mention of his business philosophy or strategy common for all Virgin businesses, the descriptions of most areas of his activity are mostly barely superficial and in general the article seems too short to address all important issues given the notability of the subject. What I mean is that it is not on the right stage of expansion to be considered GA. Oh, and if Branson has children, he also probably had/has a wife or some other kind of a female partner.

(b) it stays focused on the main topic without going into unnecessary details (no non-notable trivia).

The article fails to make clear how the quote from Stelios actually relates to the subject of the section. Other than that, the article is rather an example of insufficient rather than overabundant information.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy. In this respect:

(a) viewpoints are represented fairly and without bias;

The section on music reads quite POV, especially concerning the Tubular Bells fragment marked "citation needed". Putting the two issues under "controversy" without explanation creates the impression of a bias. Some other statements seem to be leaning this way or another, but I guess this might just be the bad style and structure of the article, so until those are rectified, it is hard to judge that.

(b) all significant points of view are fairly presented, but not asserted, particularly where there are or have been conflicting views on the topic.

As I said, some controversy is implied but nothing actually presented.

5. It is stable, i.e. it does not change significantly from day to day and is not the subject of ongoing edit wars. This does not apply to vandalism and protection or semi-protection as a result of vandalism, or proposals to split/merge the article content.

Moderate editing activity in general (one to four edits a day), some minor vandalism from time to time that looks pretty random. No evidence of recent discussion on talk page. This should not be a problem.

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic. In this respect:

(a) the images are tagged and have succinct and descriptive captions;

They are tagged, though fair use ones lack detailed rationales and references to the article they are to be used in in their descriptions pages. The Private Eye covers' image seems unnecessary given how little is devoted to the actual issue in the article. The caption is definitely too long and should be put in the article, if anything.

(b) a lack of images does not in itself prevent an article from achieving Good Article status.

It does not, but this is not the case :D

I guess this is not the best example of a complete GA review, but the article is so far from GA level it is hard to review it that way. The overall conclusion is that there is quite a lot work to be done before it can be considered for renomination. That said, I hope to see it become a proper GA as soon as possible and I cordially encourage all editors to keep working on the article on this important person. We seem to be lacking an example of a really good, not to mention superb (Featured) article on a businessperson, but I would tentatively recommend taking a look at the Henry Ford article - while it has its deficiencies, it would be good to follow its example at least in general. Bravada, talk - 22:46, 18 September 2006

one citation

in section "Life and career", "citation needed" has been marked for the sentence "The album [Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells] was released by Virgin after no other company dared to release the whiz-kids' unconventional record"

A simple Google search led me to http://tubular.net/articles/01_08.shtml. Close enough, it seems to me.

Jerome Potts 05:27, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Possible error regarding Global Warming "Donation"?

I have heard that his pledge was not to provide a charitable contribution, but in fact to invest in technologies, in a business context, that would mitigate global warming. If this is true, the term "donate" should be changed, and the paragraph should be revised. 68.32.51.201 10:12, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Removed non-NPOV statement

I have removed the statement that Virgin trains "is struggling to stay in business. Legally mandating the use of trains instead of airlines for equivalent routes would clearly benefit his own financial interests". Not only do I feel that using phrasing such as 'clearly' is non-encyclopedic and this is thus not NPOV, but also Virgin trains is definitely not at risk of going out of business and as his airlines are much more profitable, it is doubtable that this would greatly benefit his own interests. Furthermore, as he admitted his bias on BBC's Newsnight, this would seem only to be an oversight anyway. Will 15:46, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Controversy?

Hi, I've never been to this article, and stumbled onto it wanting to get a little biographical info after reading the BBC's article on the pledge for cleaner airlines today. I hope this isn't too big a source of bias in favor of Branson, but there- you've been warned.

With that out of the way, I've got two major problems with things labeled as controversy in this article.

The first: I think the following:

Another controversy came about when Virgin Atlantic allegedly reported British Airways for price fixing in June 2006

...should be removed for two reasons:

1. . It would be contriversial, if British Airways is found not guilty, and VA charged and convicted of perjury.
2. The reporter of the alleged price-fixing was "a Virgin counterpart" of "a BA executive". The I've read does not link Branson to this action. The only mention of Branson is in a lawsuit involving BA and "dirty tricks" that he won. This might be useful on the Virgin Airways article, though due to the prior reason, I'd still argue against it.

The second: When a competitor says the following:

"Let's be honest – Branson is some hippy from the 1960s whereas I'm a university graduate who went through formal training to become a businessman."

I don't see this as any kind of useful criticism, being a very childish ad-hominem. How is making it on your own less worthy than going to graduate school and then making it. Surely one can't argue that Branson is not a good businessman, considering his accomplishments. Compare his £3,065m to Haji-Ioannou "and family"'s £727m, if you like [3]. While this may be considered a critical statement, I still don't see how it falls into the scope of being controversial.

I suggest deleting both of these. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MJKazin (talk • contribs)

Even though unsigned ;) , I find the above argumentation very valid. As a former GA reviewer of this article I just have to agree. Bravada, talk - 15:29, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Both removed! --Amit 03:54, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

bees wax fuel?

I heard that he said he intends to develop an environmentally friendly rocket fuel made from bees wax. I'm assuming this is a joke or a rumour though. anyone have any more information on this?

???? hehehe. Sounds like a dodgy rumor. (Toritaiyo 01:36, 12 October 2006 (UTC))

World Records

I noticed that the article did not mention anything about Branson's ballon trips and world records. Is anyone interested in adding this informtaion? I might write something if I have time. (Toritaiyo 23:00, 11 October 2006 (UTC))

Hmm, well there used to be, because at one time there was a wikilink through to Sir Chay Blyth as he was Branson's co-skipper on the Virgin Atlantic Challenger attempt/record. AFAIR there was more information in this article than there was on Sir Chay's. Kert01 18:00, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Please Consider This Link

Doc Glasgow has suggested that I submit this link for community discussion before putting it live.

This link conforms with EL Guidelines. It leads to 17 Richard Branson quotations which provide insight into the way he thinks.

http://www.quote-fox.com/QuoteFox/QuoteFox_SearchResults.php/?indexpage=temp/index_source_fd819b10e78fe649c9f3cfa457a263dc_Richard-Branson_1.html

What do we think? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Speermeister (talk • contribs) 04:35, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

References

In the references section of this page, I see 4 copies of his autobiography - Losing my virginity. Why so many copies of the same book ? Are they all equally up-to-date ? If I want to buy one today, which one do I buy ? This might be OT here, but the page of the book itself is a stub, and no talk page for it exists. --RohanDhruva 08:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

World Record Channel Crossing

I that he held the record for fastest channel crossing in an amphibious vehicle (the record has since been broken) - should this be added to the world record section if an appropriate source can be found? [[Guest9999 23:50, 14 March 2007 (UTC)]]

Student design contest proposal

Citing no sources in this edit of the article at 02:29, 15 March 2007 (UTC), user 68.217.8.173 (talk · contribs) added the following paragraph:

"Ed Barker, an electrical engineer, mentor to the Kell High School Robotics Team #1311 of Marietta Georgia, submitted to Branson a proposal for design contest that would capture solar energy and create a form of synthetic fuel. The fuel cycle would resolve the issue of greenhouse gases by recycling CO2 similar to natural photosynthesis. He asked for no money for himself. The proposal was made to Branson's office in London, dated September 28, 2006. November 23, 2006 Branson's organization Virgin Fuels notified him that they were rejecting the proposal. Several week later Branson announced an extraordinarily similar design contest. Branson reportedly cited the longitude prize and the X-prize was cited as inspirations. No mention was given of the rejected Ed Barker/ Kell Robotics proposal."

To user 68.217.8.173: this needs Wikipedia:Attribution. — Athænara ✉ 02:46, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Virgin Cars

There is no mention of this venture? RB went into partnership with Quentin Wilson (motoring journalist, former Top Gear presenter adn prenter of the Fifth Gear TV programme) + one other unknown person.

The company started life based in offices in Watford and sourced cheaper cars from Europe which were sold via the internet in the UK.

Virgin Cars closed after moving to Leeds when the car market stalled, due to bad sales affecting the motor trade. Unfortunately I can't cite any of this! Does anyone know the full story? --Pandaplodder 11:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

A quick Google search brought up quite a few results. Here's one. But there's also a Wikipedia article already on Virgin Cars containing more references. Waggers 20:39, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Television Appearances

Just to mention, the person who added the information about Branson's appearances on Live & Kicking was me. I am certain of this fact, but have only been able to find one website listing his appearance on the show (which i have linked). It may be useful to find a source giving a more detailed description of his appearances on this show. I also believe he was often the celebrity guest in the "Hot Seat" during the program.

Donation of money to Enterprise

Someone wrote that "Branson was prepared to donate $3 million for continuation of the prematurely cancelled Star Trek: Enterprise television series." and provided the following reference. [4]. I read this and found that there was absolutely nothing in that forum which supports the claim that Branson was prepared to donate this money. I have thus removed this section from Richard's page.124.190.16.161 15:08, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The person in the interview stated in the reference was SRB, which was not only noted in other posts but also pretty obvious if you read the whole thing. He was prepared to give money, your action has been reverted. NcSchu 18:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The information should be removed purely because the link is unverifiable. It is after all a web chat transcript that doesn't identify the participants. But above and beyond this problem, the information should be removed because it isn't actually supported by the hyper link reference. While Sir Richard Branson's name was present in the transcript, there is nothing there to connect him to the claim that he was prepared to donate $3 million to save enterprise. Rather, the participants in the web chat have argued that the organisers of the campaign should contact Sir Richard Branson in order to get him to donate some money. Therefore, I am removing the incorrect information124.190.16.174 01:52, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Football

"Richard Branson got involved with football when he sponsored Nuneaton Borough A.F.C. for their FA Cup 3rd round game against Middlesbrough F.C.. The game ended 1-1 and the Virgin brand was also on Nuneaton Borough's shirts for the replay which they eventually lost 2-5.[citation needed]"

-He also got involved in football when Virgin Atlantic sponsored Crystal Palace in the late 80s / early 90s. I've no idea how this fits in to the article though so i'll leave it to someone who's less of a virgin with this article (sorry i couldn't help it).extraordinary 14:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Price Fixing?

I didn't want to remove the edit because I wasn't sure what others would think. But, why is it relevant to mention the price fixing when nothing has indicated that Branson was even involved? This is more relevant for the Virgin Atlantic page (on which, by coincidence, the same user added the same information). NcSchu_(Talk) 18:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Billion vs. 1,000,000,000

In the UK a "billion" is 1,000,000,000,000 whereas in America it is merely 1,000,000,000. As Branson is a British citizen, we should list his wealth more specifically. I see that "billion" is linked to 1000000000. Is this clear enough to the average reader? Geneffects 17:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. I'm a UK citizen, and I consider a billion as 10^9, not 10^12, as will every British mathematician, financeer, politician, newsreader, joe public. mattbuck 01:41, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, billion is 10^9 in Britain and is used by most people. The 10^12 use is archaic but some may still use it (along with other archaisms!). See long and short scales. Halsteadk (talk) 11:23, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Sightings at TED

Not sure how this can be worked into his article but he can be seen in the audience in the last few seconds of the TED talk with Vilayanur Ramachandran. I'd suspect him as being a financial backer of TED. The talk is hosted at ted.com. EvanCarroll 19:49, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

A newly available TED talk with Branson can be seen at ted.com entitled, "Richard Branson: Life at 30,000 feet". EvanCarroll 19:52, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

What was his age?

In the summary it tells us that he was 15 when he created the Student Magazine, but in the Early Years section it say that he created it when he was 16. Which is it? That is confusing. 01:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)the amazing salsa

English or British entrepreneur?

I'm not sure if this has been raised before, sorry if it has, but the first line reads "English entrepreneur" last time I checked Branson is (like the rest of us from the UK) a British citizen and his nationality is therefor British regardless of what part of the UK he hails from.

This seems to be an ongoing confusion on wikipedia, if people could clarify why this is the case that would be great :) --Curuxz (talk) 14:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

There definitely was a discussion of this exact thing and the editor referred people to the featured article, Charles Darwin, which uses "English". I personally find this really strange because we refer to American people as "American" not "Californian", for example. But alas it seems there's no arguing with this. NcSchu_(Talk) 15:58, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Darwin was not born anywhere near the time of Branson so I fail to see how the conventions of nationality by him would have any influence on modern people. Thank you for your incite into the issue, I'm just suprised that its been determined in that way. Just seems very odd. --Curuxz (talk) 16:04, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm with you, it seemed to be a decision purely based on nationalism about being "English", not "British" (my uncle was the same way). I think the user pointed us to that article because it was featured, which I found quite strange in the first place. Just because an article is featured it doesn't mean the format is set in stone. NcSchu_(Talk) 19:26, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I think (but am not absolutely sure, as it seems to keep changing) that the convention is to use "British" unless there's a verifiable source stating that the subject personally identifies more with "English", "Welsh", etc. If it doesn't say that in the convention, it should do, as it's common sense! Waggers (talk) 14:30, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

A further point is that in this case, "English" is linked to English people, which is described (correctly) as an ethnic group, not a nationality. Branson's nationality is British. Waggers (talk) 14:33, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a big difference between the USA and the UK. England is a constitent country of the UK, and people are rightly often described as English, or Scottish, or Welsh (hence we have those categories). There is a general acceptance on Wikipedia about this. --UpDown (talk) 19:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Apparently not, judging from just the general confusion exhibited above. :/ NcSchu_(Talk) 22:20, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Just because a few people are confused does not mean there is not an accepted practise.--UpDown (talk) 10:34, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Well I still find it hard to believe it's as accepted as your claiming, I've seen "British" just as much as "English/Welsh/Scottish" or perhaps even more so, on this encyclopedia. Now, I don't care that much to be honest, I just wish I could see this solid consensus so I know what to do. NcSchu_(Talk) 17:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Isn't it always the same that when an Englishmen does something good he is English but if he does bad he is British. And if a Scottish person does something good he is British but if he does something bad he is Scottish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.66.135 (talk) 18:54, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Mates condoms

Another possible fact about him at http://www.mates.co.uk/about-mates/ -

"Mates was launched back in the mid-Eighties by Richard Branson, who saw the need for a condom brand with more personality. Now owned by global latex manufacturer Ansell Ltd, the brand has continued to grow, while forging a brand identity that young people feel comfortable with."

I guess it must be the same man? Yet Mates is absent from but this page, and from the "List of Richard Branson's business ventures" page. Should we add it? -- (James McNally)  (talkpage)  16:00, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it certainly is the same man. Not one of Sir Richard's more successful ventures, and spectacularly inappropriate for a company calling itself "Virgin". Stephen Burnett (talk) 18:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Virginrecordlogo.jpg

Image:Virginrecordlogo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Private eye branson.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 14:26, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

No longer an atheist?

Branson's article is in the category "Former atheists and agnostics." A quick search has turned up many pages noting that he is an atheist but none, that I've seen, that indicate he has converted from atheism to another belief system, and the article itself gives no justification for the categorization. Can anyone turn up a suitable reference that indicates he's no longer an atheist? If not, the category should be removed since the weight of evidence would be heavily against the claim. Jacob1207 (talk) 01:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Grazon (aka Blackeagles) kept categorizing Branson as a former atheist based on Branson having said

“ I and all his many friends around the world miss Steve [Fossett] very much. On behalf of them, I would like to extend our thoughts and prayers to his lovely wife, Peggy.[5] ”

(See the edit summary for Blackeagles' edit to “List of atheists (miscellaneous)”.) This reasoning is even more specious than claiming that if Branson had responded to a sneeze with “Bless you!” then he must surely have embraced a belief in God, in-so-far as

1. Branson did not say that he himself was doing any praying.
2. Branson did not claim that he imputed any power to the thoughts or to the prayers.
3. One could believe in a power of prayer without believing in a god.

Anyway, Grazon was long ago indefinitely banned from editing, because of abusive sock-puppeteering, and this latest puppet has been indefinitely been banned. If you see someone going at this page with the same weird agenda, then it's probably yet another Grazon puppet. —SlamDiego_←T 08:53, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

That all sounds like original research to me...nothing there includes a cited statement that he is no longer an atheist. NcSchu_(Talk) 16:06, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

It was worse than just “original research”. —SlamDiego_←T 05:10, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

"Our thoughts and prayers" means that there was a combination of thoughts and prayers from him and the other people whom he referred to. It does not mean that there were both thoughts and prayers from each person; there could have been only thoughts from Branson, and the prayers were from some or all of the other people. If he said there were prayers from him, it would be a different matter, as true atheists do not pray. Ideally, we would have a recent statement from Branson about his beliefs. Nietzsche 2 (talk) 02:45, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Early records

Mentioned in the article is early association with Sex Pistols who only had 1 top 10 hit but band member, on his own, Sid Vicious, had 3 top 5 hits and his early demise pumped up even more record sales. Funds from this allowed young Branson to expand his single record shop into a chain and founded in effect, the larger Branson empire today. Some note the early death of Vicious claiming he was morose over death of his girl friend Nancy Spungen, but in fact, he was over that and had a new life and was expected to defeat pending murder charge as no one thought he murdered Nancy. But then a strange heroin overdose by "hot" heroin (extra pure), bought by Sid's pals, killed Sid, giving a convenient boost to his records sales.

/s/ PT 109 JF K Jr 76.192.1.62 (talk) 07:27, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Virgin Shares - Stock floatation - controversy

Virgin company was floated on the stock market. Lots of people bought shares thinking the company would do really wall, but in fact it did badly.

Eventually, Richard Branson decided he wanted to take the money off the stock market and so he bought the shares cheap. Most shareholders could not object, since he was a majority shareholder. In any case, the company did amazingly well.

Some people accuse him, of buying back the company really cheap, because soon after all the virgin companies were booming! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.47.57 (talk) 17:34, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest that you find an article in a repuitable financial publication (e.g. The Financial Times) that expresses these views, and then you can include them. Nick Cooper (talk) 12:20, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. It would be relevant if it's as important as you claim it is, but we'd need a reliable source to verify that it happened and that 'many people' accuse him of doing such things. NcSchu_(Talk) 15:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Richard Branson Atheist

On Piers Morgan tonight on CNN on 9/14/2011, Branson confirmed that he does not believe in God. He stated that despite his near-death experience swimming in the Atlantic Ocean, he still does not believe in God although he would like to, because he imagines it to be comforting. As the episode Piers Morgan show is currently still running at this moment, there is no transcript available to support this. Can we post anyway? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike450 (talk • contribs) 01:34, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Mother as an Influence

in the BBC "Five Minutes with..." series, Richard Branson tells how his mother taught him and his siblings how to do things for themselves rather than watch other people doing them. By "sending him to the mirror" she also taught him that criticising others reflects badly on himself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.170.152.204 (talk) 17:53, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

I would like to put a non-breaking space between numbers e.g., 2 daughters, 1 son, so that they appear on these figures each appear on a single line. KrisKowal (talk) 21:16, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Done I only put it on 1 son, since the other is not near a break. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 13:36, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Siblings

Sister is Lindy as stated in "Losing my Virginity", his autobiogaphy. Dont have a page number handy, ah, pages 15 and 19. - arbitrary aardvark Hi, One of his sister's name is wrong; it's stated as being Andrea but is actually Lindy. She's a painter and sculpter. Seabright (talk) 16:11, 24 April 2012 (UTC)Seabright

Maybe, but we need a source. I've removed the whole thing as unsourced. I poked around and found different things on different sisters, but not one source that said how many there were total and who they were. So, it's gone.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:10, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 May 2012

New estimated net worth is 5.4 billion

46.64.9.3 (talk) 23:22, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Please provide a reference. Halsteadk (talk) 23:41, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Place of Birth

The article states his place of birth as Blackheath, London (SE3). That may be incorrect. I think it was Blackheath, Surrey (GU4). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.207.220.135 (talk) 16:50, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

New World Record Attempt

On 1st July 2012 Richard Branson and his son Sam both set world records in crossing the english channel on a kite board. Richard become the oldest person to cross the English Channel Kite Surfing whilst his son Sam became the fastest person to cross the English Channel Kite Surfing shaving 12 minutes of the previous record. He set a new time of 2 hours 18 minutes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matstone99 (talk • contribs) 16:21, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Magnitude of Branson's investments in space technology

This webzine article provides some solid info on Branson's investment in licensing Burt Rutan's airplane and spaceplane technology, put into both The Spaceship Company and Virgin Galactic, as well as Branson't specific investment in the production of the early aircraft/spacecraft: "...$14 million to license Rutan's technology and another $95 million to build five passenger spaceliners over 15 years", Virtuoso Life, p. 4, accessed 2012-09-12. Might make a good source for improving the article with some info on investment size in just a couple of his business ventures. Cheers. N2e (talk) 00:26, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Arrests

Hello! I believe it would be good to add the fact that he has been arrested and been to prison (or, at least, jail) on 2 occasions. I do not know where to put it, though, and I don't want it to sound like we're attempting defamation, but the actual stories behind the 2 arrests are very interesting. (he describes them here, from 18:30 mins onwards. What think? BigSteve (talk) 12:10, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

pacific crossing by balloon

The numbers seem to be off on this one. According to the entry in the guinnes book of WR: http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records-1/first-pacific-crossing-by-hot-air-balloon/ The trip was shorter (7671.9 km in stead of 10,800 km), and the average speed wasn't 394km/h (surprise!), but (still impressive) 166km/h.94.208.67.245 (talk) 11:11, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Richard and Public Understanding of Science

Richard supports public understanding - awareness of science. He is willing to increase his efforts. Can we call him and ask what does he has in mind? Do we have any wikipedia reporters to ask officially as wikipedia agents stuff? Wikipedia must allow that only for top "starred" members. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.84.205.100 (talk) 05:05, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 May 2014

On 15 May 2014, Branson received the 2014 Business for Peace Award, awarded annually by the Business for Peace Foundation in Oslo, Norway. 86.144.58.114 (talk) 23:21, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Done Sam Sailor ^Sing 11:02, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2014

It says in the article that Virgin records was sold for £500 million, when it was actually sold for 1 billion USD, it says here in his bio after you click more, http://www.forbes.com/profile/richard-branson/#, also says here http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/229610 that it was sold for 1 billion. Will6757 (talk) 02:56, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

 Not done Forbes uses the phrase "reportedly" in its article, whereas the BBC states the price was "almost £500 million." There doesn't seem to be a reliable source with an actual figure. In June 1992 US$1 billion was around £560 million, so the article is as "accurate" as the existing sources allow. - Arjayay (talk) 11:50, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Incorrect evaluation of Branson's performance with Virgin Cola as 'lacklustre'

The article mentions lacklustre performances with regard to Virgin Cola and Virgin Vodka. Certainly in the case of Virgin Cola, I have heard Branson say that his fledgling enterprise into the soft drinks market was scuppered by his rivals underhand practices (flooding the market and/or buying up stock) Branson definitely maintains that his business was choked out by the larger corporations:

"“There is no question that if you don’t make mistakes, you don’t achieve anything. And that’s one of the reasons I generally suggest to people that they should get out and try things. I mean, you can try little businesses, but just try. I’ve made numerous mistakes.”

One of his biggest, he said, was the ill-fated decision to take on multinational giant Coca-Cola.

“I thought I could knock Coca-Cola into the number-two position in the world and we launched Virgin Cola. For about two years we were outselling Coke and Pepsi in the UK and we actually started dreaming big … but Coke was a lot bigger than us and suddenly Virgin Cola disappeared from everywhere.

“The lesson I learnt from that was that if you are going to take on a company that is much bigger than you are, you have got to be much better. I mean, two cans of cola – there is not much of a difference there,” he said."

Source: http://www.citypress.co.za/business/make-mistakes-achieve-says-branson/

Henrypage (talk) 07:20, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 September 2014

Please remove this: In 1971, Branson was questioned in connection with the selling of records in Virgin stores that had been declared export stock. The matter was never brought before a court and Branson agreed to repay any unpaid tax and a fine And replace with: In 1971, Branson paid a £60,000 compound penalty for a purchase tax fraud committed when falsely claiming to have exported thousands of Virgin records.

Source: http://www.criminallawandjustice.co.uk/features/Executive-Justice

Reason: Fraud is fraud. He repeatedly drove a Transit van round Dover Docks and collected a refund on purchase tax each time. The existing entry doesn't reflect the seriousness of the offence.

The offending line is under the Early life Career Record Business, para two. Nemo183 23:51, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Not done for now: the source you link doesn't give the details that you've provided. Where is the £60,000 figure coming from? Cannolis (talk) 05:10, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 September 2014

Please can we add Richard's winning of the Sunday Times business poll as the most admired business leader over the past five decades added to his page at the end of the introduction paragraph.

"Branson topped a 2014 Sunday Times poll as the most admired business leader over the past five decades"

SOURCE: http://news.sky.com/story/1339457/richard-branson-tops-most-admired-boss-poll

Thank you Cf123451548924H (talk) 09:41, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Done — LeoFrank  ^Talk 06:17, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 October 2014

The page states that Branson is the Chairman of Virgin Group, which he is not (per the page on Virgin Group. Amnorvend (talk) 02:35, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Done Virgin Website lists someone else as chairman. Stickee (talk) 08:54, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Links with UK Labour party in 1997

I noticed there was a citation needed concerning Branson's links with New Labour in the late 1990's

I clearly remember Branson appearing with Blair, endorsing New Labour before the 1997 (although this may have been edited and taken out of context). His name features on the Downing Street list of guests at Chequers between 1997 and 2001, but having scoured youtube political broadcasts for the period (which is where I thought I'd seen him) I can't find the evidence I was looking for to make a really good citation.

(The Chequers Guest List was obtained by Norman Lamb MP under the Freedom of Information Act in 2005 - Chequers is the country residence of the Prime Minister)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Fjleonhardt (talk • contribs) 18:16, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

[sorry not sure how to add a new section so putting it here.] In the 1980s, Branson was briefly given the post of "litter Tsar" by Margaret Thatcher—charged with "keeping Britain tidy".[76][77]

He disputes this in his autobiography, says it was never about litter, that that was a caricature by the press that uined what he ws actually tring to do, some sort of jobs training/environmental program. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.46.239.15 (talk) 23:17, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

KBE or Knight Bachelor

The article mentions that he was made a Knight Bachelor in 2000. This not the same as a KBE. Was he also awarded the KBE? If not than the post-nominal KBE is incorrect and should be removed. YUL89YYZ (talk) 16:42, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

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Height and weight

How tall is Richard Branson, and how much does he weigh? --172.251.204.186 (talk) 00:28, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

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Richard Branson signature notability

Richard Branson signature is more than notable, he is world renown entrepreneur, speaker, with numerous appearing on film and tv. There is a specific place on the template for a signature. I don't believe we need to discuss this at all. There are plenty of examples of other entrepreneurs with their signatures with no controversy. Quantanew (talk) 22:14, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Edit request from Mike450, 18 September 2011

As done with many public icons, it may be beneficial to add a note about Richard Branson's atheists views. He was interviewed by Piers Morgan on CNN several days ago.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/15/asked-about-belief-in-god-richard-branson-says-he-believes-in-evolution/

Mike450 (talk) 02:39, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

 Not done He doesn't actually claim anywhere in the interview that he is an atheist, and he may actually be implying that he is an agnostic. Furthermore, the interview is a primary source, and conclusions should only be made if they can be backed up to reliable secondary sources per WP:NOR: Do not analyze, synthesize, interpret, or evaluate material found in a primary source yourself; instead, refer to reliable secondary sources that do so. Do not base articles and material entirely on primary sources. If you can find secondary sources which back this up, then by all means file an edit request here again. Thanks. Jay _{Σεβαστός}^discuss 09:33, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

He said he doesnt belive in a god so not a theist so he is an atheist (if you are not a theist you are an atheist) using the correct definitions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.107.113 (talk) 22:39, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

The term atheist has various definitions, of which non-theist is perhaps the crudest and least useful. In any case, I fail to see how whether Richard Branson is an atheist is automatically relevant to the article. It seems to me that even if someone were to come along with a valid source, he should still be required to justify the inclusion. TheScotch (talk) 10:54, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

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First link works, but no mention of Branson? Second fails. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:37, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Calling a spade a shovel - Fraud is fraud, not an accounting error.

No doubt this has been discussed before, but if Branson choose to commit tax fraud, and got caught, surely the words "tax fraud" should be used when mentioning it. It is a matter of public record that he committed fraud. It wasn't tax avoidance or evasion it was fraud, hence the compound charge he received. I don't have any great axe to grind but in my opinion it shows the measure of the man. The current line sounds harmless, as if a mistake had been by his accountant. I recollect at the time he found the whole thing amusing, driving round and round Dover docks in a van full of records, collecting refunded tax each time he went past go. Maybe what he did should be included? This page ain't the Branson fan club, it's wiki. Nemo183 16:43, 15 September 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemo183 (talk • contribs)

I would be very interested to read about this, but even reference to an "accounting error" are missing from the page. Branson is a businessman; if he has committed serious crimes in the conduction of his business, surely no impartial summary could omit this?2A00:23C4:4F07:1000:51ED:B111:9877:ABB1 (talk) 10:10, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

I tend to agree. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:38, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

richard branson

"If someone offers you an amazing opportunity and you're not sure you can do it,say "YES", then learnhow to do it later" - Richard Branson — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rihab ri ri (talk • contribs) 19:43, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

I'm assuming this is a Branson quote? Perhaps it could be added, with a source, at his WikiQuote page? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:26, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Contradiction

The section on Tax Evasion contradicts the second para of the Record Business section. Which is it? Engelsepiet (talk) 16:57, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, quite so. The first section with "The matter was never brought before a court because Branson agreed to repay any unpaid VAT of 33% and a £70,000 fine." is sourced to Branson's own book Losing My Virginity, while the later section which has "Branson was convicted and briefly jailed for tax evasion" has two independent sources, both published in 2014, which both look quite legit. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:35, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

"failed" ventures

This section is unencyclopedia, and it is nothing but POV pushing. the supposed failed companies are only failures by OR and personal perception and opinion. The companies listed still exist in some way and calling them "failures" is a POV slant and designed only to add a negative POV. it is cherrypicking of a source to push an OR POV. 91.110.126.37 (talk) 18:57, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

It's sourced mainly to virgin.com? If that's their "POV", then surely so be it. The other piece in The Sunday Times is by Tom Bower, a pretty notable investigative journalist? I think it's quite notable that Branson himself owns up to his failures. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:10, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

This is not encyclopedic content none of the comments come close to giving a reason which the POV pushing nonsense is given a prominent section on this article. The opinion piece by one man no matter who his does not cut the mustard on an article which is in anyway serious. The companies are not bust the products still exist. Not being as successful as other ventures ≠ failure. The section is trash POV pushing. There is a pushing here that everything must be a rip roaring money maker in every home on earth that is lunacy. The section is not supported by sensible editors. 91.110.126.37 (talk) 21:52, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

I see. Well, I've no Beardie axe to grind, so I'm happy to go with whatever consensus appears here. Let's see what other editors think. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:55, 29 November 2018 (UTC)