Talk:Stray (video game)

Commented out image

Why was the image commented out when this was moved into draft? AllenY99 (talk) 03:12, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

@AllenY99: Non-free content cannot be included in draft articles per WP:NFCC#9. – Rhain ☔ 00:01, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

@Rhain:Ah I see, thanks. I'll put a note on the image to prevent its deletion on the assumption that this article will get out of draft soonish. AllenY99 (talk) 20:24, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

@AllenY99: Unfortunately, that likely won't work—"soonish" is not soon enough. Non-free content must be used on mainspace articles or else it will be deleted. I'd recommend saving a local version of the image for reupload when the article inevitably returns to mainspace (or you could request it to be restored), but it needs to be deleted for now. – Rhain ☔ 06:56, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 09:34, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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Kowloon Walled City

• ... that Stray was influenced aesthetically by Kowloon Walled City (pictured), which the developers considered the "perfect playground for a cat"? Source: USA Today
  • ALT1: ... that the developers of Stray had only developed some "visual scenes" by the time they were approached by a publisher? Source: Edge
  • ALT2: ... that Stray broke Annapurna Interactive's record for concurrent Steam players upon release? Source: Video Games Chronicle
  • ALT3: ... that a reviewer said that playing as a cat "is at least 50% of the appeal" of Stray? Source: Rock, Paper, Shotgun
  • Reviewed: Seminole burning
  • Comment: Image for main hook only.

5x expanded by Rhain (talk). Self-nominated at 11:41, 22 July 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Expanded 5x the day before the nom; long enough; article seems well-sourced and neutral. Earwig flags potential copyvio but the website in question is copied from Wikipedia, rather than the other way around [1]; no other areas of concern. QPQ done. Image is fine visually at this size, and under a free licence. No concerns with any of the hooks but my preference is ALT3, followed by ALT0; will leave choice up to promotor. Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 02:07, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Undue coverage

I'm wondering if we are giving WP:UNDUE coverage of the criticism of this game, it seems over-represented to me given the game's generally positive reception and ratings. EnPassant♟♙ (talk) 22:30, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

@EnPassant: I'm clearly biased since I wrote the section, but I couldn't disagree more: the first Reception paragraph is pure praise, the second and third list twice as many positive points as negative, the fourth and fifth are entirely positive, and the last paragraph is fairly mixed (as were the reviews). If you have specific examples of undue weight, please feel free to share. – Rhain ☔ 00:54, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

I had a second look and yeah, maybe you're right. Nevermind. Seems fine. EnPassant♟♙ (talk) 00:02, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

What kind of people may mean this game isn’t purr-fect ? 2A02:2788:228:93D:65F9:E41D:E623:4C7 (talk) 13:35, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Meow. :) EnPassant♟♙ (talk) 23:36, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Nicolas Carthelier?

Someone named Nicolas Carthelier is, at least legally, the president of BlueTwelve. Some sources (albeit with questionable reliability) claim this person to be the one behind the "Koola" pseudonym. Carthelier formerly worked at Ubisoft Montpellier, whereas "Colas Koola" is only credited on Stray. Is Carthelier mentioned in any reliable sources in connection with this game or the studio? IceWelder [✉] 22:07, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

@IceWelder: No reliable sources mention Carthelier, though I'm certain that they are Colas Koola—especially considering the spelling of their name, Nicolas. In any case, they are credited as Koola, so I think that's the name that we should use, regardless of their legal name—even if we (or reliable sources) do manage to make that connection. – Rhain ☔ 23:24, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

It seems like eventually some source (maybe in French) will cover this and at that time, the connection should be mentioned. EnPassant♟♙ (talk) 02:34, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

I doubt anyone will reliably report on this, since the developers seem pretty secretive about their real names. In any case, for privacy reasons, I see no reason for us to use their full name until they do. – Rhain ☔ 07:08, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Stray (video game)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TheJoebro64 (talk · contribs) 20:59, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Haven't done a GA review in a while. Should have a full review up within the next few days. JOEBRO64 20:59, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

And here... we... go.

• You're using semicolons quite excessively and I found it a little distracting. I know from experience that semicolons are easy to misuse so I'd advise going through the article to find unnecessary ones. I removed some that stood out to me as needless during my read, but I know I didn't get them all—there are five semicolons in the release paragraph alone, according to my Ctrl+F.
• Another issue I have is the amount of quotations, which I think goes against MOS:QUOTE. In particular, you've got a lot of scare quotes in the Development section (Koola and Mermet-Guyenet had only developed some "visual scenes", the team figured that they "were on the right path", The sequence in which the player can kill the Zurks was seen as "revenge", etc.) and the reception section feels overstuffed with direct quotes. I'd recommend making an effort to go through and see how much you can paraphrase/rewrite.
• I spot-checked two random refs in every section: #6, #8, #22, #26, #50, #68
  • #6 does not support the statement that "They solve puzzles to progress the narrative, often involving moving obstacles." It mentions that you solve puzzles throughout the game, but doesn't say that they involve moving obstacles.
  • #8 does not support the statement that B-12 "translat[es] the language of other characters, stor[es] items found throughout the world, provid[es] light, and hack[s] into various technologies to open paths and solve puzzles." It never mentions that B-12 can hack or store items, and I think it's debatable whether the source's "B12 is able to interact with the numerous robotic characters the player encounters, adding some story and lore to what would otherwise be a plot-free game" supports the assertion that B-12 "translat[es] the language of other characters".
  • Didn't see anything wrong with the other uses, so I'd double check the references in the gameplay section to ensure everything is properly cited.
• —known as Koola and Viv, respectively— Is this really necessary? It's never brought up again.
• Likewise, I don't think you need to say the game was "known by its working title HK Project" in the lede. It's never brought up again for the rest of the lede, so it strikes me as a little trivial. (I'm not talking about the actual article, just the lede).
• I think the final paragraph in Development, concerning the game's announcement and eventual release, suffers from some WP:PROSELINE. This could be remedied by simplifying the information; I don't think the reader needs to know every exact trailer the release date was announced in. For example, "In a Sony trailer at the Consumer Electronics Show in January 2021, the release window was noted in fine print as October 2021; Sony later removed the fine print from the trailer. In July 2021, Annapurna Interactive released a gameplay trailer revealing an early 2022 release window; a trailer by PlayStation in April 2022 revealed that the game had been delayed to a mid-year release." could become something like "In a January 2021 Consumer Electronics Show trailer, Sony gave the game an October 2021 release window. Annapurna Interactive announced the game would be released in early 2022 in July 2021, but it was delayed to a mid-year release in April 2022." This specific instance is just my suggestion—you can tackle this how you'd like.
• I think you have enough content for a Release section separate from the Development section. I'd make it using the final paragraph from Development and the player count info (beginning with "Highly anticipated following its announcement...") in the first paragraph of Reception.

And that's all I have to say. Placing the review on hold. Sorry for the wait @Rhain—I think you've done a fine job with this article and I'm looking forward to a second read. JOEBRO64 12:52, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, @TheJoebro64! I've made some changes based on your comments. Please don't hesitate to let me know if there's anything else. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 06:26, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Looks good. Passing JOEBRO⁶⁴ 15:32, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

User voted awards

So, apparently user voted awards by the public are not allowed in Wikipedia? I am referring to the Steam Awards, which got edited out after I included them. Based on that, the Golden Joystick Awards would have to be excluded as well then, since they are publicly voted on GamesRadar (or at least the one that is listed, Playstation Game of the Year.[2]https://www.gamesradar.com/goldenjoystickawards/

If anyone can tell me where I can read up on the rules on public voted awards, please let me know. This is new to me. Dionysos1993 (talk) 23:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I presume the guideline being referenced is WP:USERG, but I believe the Steam Awards are eligible for inclusion per WP:VG/AWARDS, so I've restored them. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 23:49, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for claryfing quickly. I did not notice anything in WP:VG/AWARDS that would lead to excluding it. Dionysos1993 (talk) 23:58, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Recipient(s) and nominee(s)

While we're talking about the awards category anyway, I'd like to remove this column, which just says "Stray" over and over. It seems superfluous to me to mention that these awards were given to the video game that the article is about. No other video game article seems to format its awards like this, either. ReneeWrites (talk) 00:51, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

It may seem odd right now, but not all awards are given to the game—the D.I.C.E. Awards name developers, for example—so the column is essentially future-proofing for that inevitability. There are several articles that format their awards like this, like the three featured lists. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 01:02, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Not every game that was awarded a D.I.C.E. award formats the award column like that, though. See Celeste, Hades, Ghost of Tsushima. Having this column isn't future-proofing so much as it's premature. Once the column contains information that's not just the title of the game it makes more sense to me to have it be added. ReneeWrites (talk) 01:22, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Of course—there are plenty of inconsistencies between articles—but I'd much prefer to follow the examples set by the featured lists (which is also the standard of film articles). Removing the column feels like a useless endeavour, since it'll almost certainly be back in two or three weeks anyway. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 01:11, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

See WP:CRYSTALBALL: The column can always be added back if/when something other than the game as a whole is nominated—we shouldn't accommodate potential new information, we should work with what currently exists. DecafPotato (talk) 03:55, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

WP:CRYSTALBALL does not apply here; the existence of a column is not prediction nor speculation. I personally prefer consistency between articles, hence my usage of the column in line with the aforementioned featured lists. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 05:06, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

@Rhain, since it'll almost certainly be back in two or three weeks is CRYSTALLBALL-y: it's essentially saying that "we will have to use it eventually", even when that's not confirmed. The featured lists are an apples-to-oranges comparison—to put it simply, there are things that go in those columns that warrants their existence, whereas removing the column in Stray loses literally zero information. DecafPotato (talk) 03:01, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

It's a little predictive, sure, but certainly not WP:CRYSTALBALL—and not even my main justification, just an explanation. Personally, I prefer to keep the column. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 08:09, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

To be clear, I’m perfectly fine adding back the column if it gets an award not to the game. We don’t need to predict anything—we can remove it now and revert the edit if/when it has a use in the future in like, five seconds. DecafPotato (talk) 19:13, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

DICE nominations are out [3] and none of Stray's are for anything but the game. Thus, I've removed the column. DecafPotato (talk) 20:38, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Not quite true, so I've reverted and corrected. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 00:00, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

This is not consistent with how it's done on other video game articles that mention the DICE awards. The three articles you're pointed to as examples aren't consistent with Stray's, either, they're stand-alone articles for the awards themselves. I'm with DecafPotato on this, and reverted the revert. ReneeWrites (talk) 12:55, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

@ReneeWrites: Other stuff exists—that's not a reason to remove information here. Besides, several other individual game articles follow a similar approach to this one, so that argument is irrelevant anyway. And, while their opinion may certainly have changed, DecafPotato clearly said above that they are "perfectly fine adding back the column if it gets an award not to the game", so I'm not sure that currently stands either. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 13:14, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

To be clear, my stance is that I do not object to the inclusion of a "recipients" column, so long is there is information to be put in it other than the implied recipient (the game as a whole), and all examples that you have cited meet that criteria. For Stray, however, this column provides no new information to the reader (as mentioned above, it is implied that awards are going to the game as a whole unless something else is specified), and we shouldn't include the column even if it's virtually guaranteed that those awards will be given to it. DecafPotato (talk) 03:33, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

@DecafPotato: Per this edit, the game does meet that criteria: D.I.C.E. nominates developers, not games, for its awards. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 03:39, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

The IGN source provided does not reflect this information, nor does the official website, which just lists developers that worked in the relevant area of the game rather than actually nominating them, as the nomination is still directed towards the game as a whole (for an example of a nomination for something other than the game as a whole, see the text indicating Aloy for Horizon Forbidden West in both the official website and the IGN source. DecafPotato (talk) 03:48, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

@DecafPotato: The nomination is directed towards the game, but it's still the individuals who are actually nominated and awarded. It's like the Academy Awards—films/games don't win, people do. This is reflected on the awards article too. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 04:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

@Rhain, the article for the 2022 Game Awards also shows key people and the developer/publisher of the game; it has no indication on who is designated as the recipient to the award. DecafPotato (talk) 05:26, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

@DecafPotato: No, The Game Awards names companies, not "key people"—the only awards given to individuals are Score/Music and Performance (and, in previous years, Narrative). D.I.C.E. follows the Oscars approach and names individuals for every award. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 05:39, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

The "Best Score and Music" category of The Game Awards names the game's composers. And the official website of the D.I.C.E. Awards lists the game itself as the recipeint of awards, and the applicable sub-aspect (like the character in "best character" awards are listed with the same weight as the game itself, marking an equal recepient, rather than a smaller-sized list of select cast members. DecafPotato (talk) 06:34, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

@DecafPotato: I know, I already mentioned Best Score and Music—as I said, it's one of only two awards given to individuals at TGA, whereas D.I.C.E. does that for every award. Not sure I agree with your second point since that's simply a stylistic choice for website navigation; previous years used slightly different formatting, but that doesn't mean the process has changed. It's already been determined on Wikipedia that individuals are the nominees; if you disagree, that's fine, but I think that's a discussion for Talk:D.I.C.E. Awards (or this year's article), not Stray. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 07:00, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

NAVGTR Awards nominations

My edit on NAVGTR Awards was reverted and I am surprised that they apparently are not notable per WP:VG/Awards. The Academy's awards are given out since over 20 years. It may not have a wikipedia article yet but it is used in about 300 articles on here. Why should we not include them? Just because of not having an article? Vestigium Leonis (talk) 00:06, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Correct. Per WP:VG/AWARDS: "Awards included in lists should have a Wikipedia article or be vetted by the community to allow for its inclusion to demonstrate notability." – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 11:01, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Rating

would it be helpful to include the rating? Blitzfan51 (talk) 17:14, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Blitzfan51: Which rating? Are you referring to the age classification? – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 22:53, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

yes, the age classification. Blitzfan51 (talk) 01:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Blitzfan51: Unless it's the subject of notable commentary, there's no reason to mention it per WP:VGSCOPE#16. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 02:42, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Ok, Thanks. :) Blitzfan51 (talk) 12:17, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Image map

The article currently contains an image map with a photograph of some of the developers at the GDCA, but it doesn't work in its current state. Clicking on the image links to BlueTwelve Studio, which is currently a redirect to Stray. Is it better to change it to a regular image and put in the description from left to right who the people in the image are? ReneeWrites (talk) 11:22, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

It should work as intended: pointing (not clicking) identifies the person. My concern with listing names in the caption is the length—it increases it fourfold. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 01:24, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Outsider or Outsiders?

I was watching a livestream of someone playing this game and thought I'd look it up to see what it was about, and as I was reading through the article, I came to the word "Outsiders's" and felt I had to fix it, only to be reverted. What I'm wondering is, is that referring to just the one member of the group? If so, shouldn't it be "Outsider's"? If not, shouldn't it be "Outsiders'" per MOS:'S? Thought I ask here instead of reverting again -- I'd rather not get into an edit war over this. Black Yoshi (Yoshi! | Yoshi's Eggs) 02:34, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

It's referring to the whole group known as "Outsiders", which is treated as a singular noun (thus, "Outsiders's" is correct). That being said, I've rephrased to avoid the word entirely. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 03:09, 14 October 2024 (UTC)