User talk:BrownHairedGirl/Archive/Archive 063

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on my current talk page

New branch on category tree

Hey, BHG,

While I'm bothering you, what do you think of this new branch on the Schools category tree, Category:Schools by type by country? Could be useful or redundant, I'm not sure. It's difficult with any "by country" new category system as there are so many countries that then need to be looked at and categorized. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:16, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Liz, I think that Rangasyd's creation of Category:Schools by type by country is handy way of cleaning up Category:Schools by type, which was otherwise an unhelpful mix of difft types of attribute. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:21, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Lol

Lamao kucch bhi :( Mr. Intelligent disrespect 1000 (talk) 09:45, 28 March 2021 (UTC)huh

Sankey Collection

Hi, You have improved one or two of my articles in the past, this one has fallen foul of the deletionists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:The_Sankey_Family_Photography_Collection Is there any chance of improving it or even releasing it into article space? There are a lot of Sankey photographs already on Wikipedia and it would be good to show the origins of them. Peterrivington (talk) 20:17, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

@Peterrivington, phrases like fallen foul of the deletionists are a very good way to lose my attention. They usually mean that the creator is annoyed that WP:GNG applies to their work, as it does to everyone else's.

In this case, I see no sign of any deletion tags being applied to Draft:The Sankey Family Photography Collection, so the statement is plain false. What I do see is the removal[1] by User:I dream of horses of several wholly-unreferenced sections. I'd have preferred to tag those sections with {{unreferenced section}}, but that's a minor issue: the core point is that this content is wholly unreferenced, and IDOH was right to take action.

@Peterrivington, I am sure you have good intentions, but the way you are going about this is all wrong. The best way to proceed is to:

1. check whether "The Sankey Family Photography Collection" meets WP:GNG, i.e. has it received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject?.
   If he answer is "yes", then list those sources. If "no", then there should be no article.
2. Re-write the article, from scratch, adding properly-formatted a reference for every fact.

Hope this helps. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:35, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

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Skawinka Skawina

Hello BrownHairedGirl, I haven't made any edits on this page. Kind regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kinvidia (talk • contribs) 10:16, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Sorry about that clerical error, @Kinvidia. I made a clipboard mistake creating the edit summary. I saw it as I saved the page, but by then it was to late to fix it.

I hope that you also saw my ping on the page(s) where it was you who had left the page in a non-existent category. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:43, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

That's fine BrownHairedGirl. I saw the ping on the page making reference to the non existent categories I added as well and I want to thank you for that (I'm not sure I thanked you earlier for the corrections made). Have a wonderful day. Kinvidia (talk) 14:35, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Victor Yan

enough already --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:22, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Please do not reverse a correct collaboration. Check out the discussion session to which I presented the sources of the information and also check out the source linked to the changed information. The player in question gave an interview to the local newspaper telling his story and telling which neighborhood in the city he was born and raised in. There is no official document linked to the article, being that, therefore, the most reliable source. The source is in Portuguese, but I believe that in 2021 this will no longer be a problem in the virtual world, Google itself translates the article. . --Alex Cambraia (talk) 17:51, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

@Alex Cambraia, see WP:REDNOT. Please stop adding articles to non-existent categories. Then I will stop reverting your edits.

You have now been notified of this many times. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:53, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl Only one of the categories was listed in red. Wouldn't it be more productive and less misleading just to remove a non-existent category that was already linked to the source than to reverse a correct collaboration and leave false information in the text? --Alex Cambraia (talk) 18:01, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

@Alex Cambraia, the most productive and collaborative thing would be for you to stop placing articles in non-existent categories. Then the articles won't show up in cleanup lists, and I won't revert. Please stop making work for others. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:05, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl Ok milady, I understand your point of view: spreading false information is less important and harmful than leaving an empty link for a potential new category. Right! Perfect! I'll do it your way, no problem. --Alex Cambraia (talk) 18:17, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

@Alex Cambraia, stay off my talk page. I have spent lots of my time cleaning up after you (with an explanation on each occasion), and lots more explaining the problem ... but since your response is sarcstic trolling, please get lost. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:21, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

Noshery

Hi BrownHairedGirl. Thanks for your help...

LewisEisen (talk) 19:24, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

You're welcome. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:33, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

:Categories

Hi thanks for noticing and correcting the live categories at my draft of Joseph Beecham‬. I am normally very careful about making [[:Categories and not [[Categories: - I think I've only done it once or twice in 12 years. I really should get on and finish the article. That makes me your April Fool for this year. Best wishes, >MinorProphet (talk) 20:31, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for being so nice about it, @MinorProphet. It's an easily overlooked issue. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:33, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Suggestion of Disabling Categories in Draft

Hi BrownHairedGirl. I saw the edits that you made on my sandbox and I appreciate them, but since I submitted the Margaret G. Hays from my second sandbox, I just made the changes you suggested on that page. Thank you for the suggestion. Sometimes the end is only the beginning... (talk) 17:47, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, User:SailorAlphaCentauri. That helps. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

No, thank you, User:BrownHairedGirl. While I've been low-key editing for years, I'm really really new to working on articles. Sometimes the end is only the beginning... (talk) 20:44, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Digital Markets Act

Hello!

Thank you for your suggestions! I modified the draft. I hope that everything is fine now. Please let us know whether other sections of our article on the Digital Markets Act should be improved.

Ana.Rusu.97 (talk) 21:52, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – April 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2021).

Administrator changes

Alexandria • Happyme22 • RexxS

Guideline and policy news

• Following a request for comment, F7 (invalid fair-use claim) subcriterion a has been deprecated; it covered immediate deletion of non-free media with invalid fair-use tags.
• Following a request for comment, page movers were granted the delete-redirect userright, which allows moving a page over a single-revision redirect, regardless of that redirect's target.

Technical news

• When you move a page that many editors have on their watchlist the history can be split and it might also not be possible to move it again for a while. This is because of a job queue problem. (T278350)
• Code to support some very old web browsers is being removed. This could cause issues in those browsers. (T277803)

Arbitration

• A community consultation on the Arbitration Committee discretionary sanctions procedure is open until April 25.

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:20, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Note of thanks from Spncrinc

 Done Thank you
Thanks for your suggestion to comment out categories on my draft page Spncrinc (talk) 23:13, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Jewels

Just had a quick glance at your user page: I also have my own collection of gems. PS Thinking about the mythical Grainne, I remember reading Rosemary Sutcliffe's The High Deeds of Finn MacCool (published only a few years after JFK was shot), and although many have kissed the Cloch na Blarnan I once (having been gifted at my birth with the silver tongue) made my way to Cnoc na Teamhrach and kissed the Lia Fáil instead. And here I am on WP... MinorProphet (talk) 23:37, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Someone who has kissed both is surely of higher standing than a MinorProphet. Upgrade that username!

I enjoyed your quote list. I only wish that I had captured more of the gems I read over the last 15 years. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:45, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Well actually, I created my username under the impression that Jeremiah (yup, that's almost my name) was to be counted with the likes of Jonah, Malachi, et al. Imagine my surprise when I realised that I was in fact best mates with Daniel, Ezekiel and the exalted Isaiah (at least from Ch. 40...). Incidentally, you are not the first person to suggest a name change, but I worry that MajorProphet would be full of doom and gloom like my namesake, or appear to be bigging myself up a bit too much (although you would probably guess that my real name wasn't Habakkuk), or even completely to be avoided. I would tend to be much more ready to say "Well, I told you so..." On the other hand, I might get some draft articles finished... MinorProphet (talk) 01:31, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Hey, @MinorProphet, I think that Habakkuk was a great dude. Mystery backstory, and a cook who fed Daniel. What's not to like? (Apart from the fact that introductions could get tedious, and you might end up like another man with an unusual name). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

Lol, as they say. My dad was a lawyer, so preparations for 'suing' someone is home ground for me. I really had no idea that Mr. H. Kuk and Dan the Man even knew each other. Just one of those things I guess, one of those biblical flings. But now it's getting late. MinorProphet (talk) 03:58, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Draft page categorization

Hi,

Thanks for catching that. I normally mask the category for my draft pages till they go live, but I seem to have missed that in haste. Mea culpa. Thank you. Appreciate it. Arunram (talk) 07:30, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl

Hi there, thanks for your help... I am a total noob on Wikipedia (I'm sure you know this already) I dont even know if this is the right way to discuss with you, but sick is life... So as I said thanks for the help, 2 things how did you even see my draft, I thought it was saved to my profile as a work in progress... nothing to hide as such, but mind blown... point and you knew this was coming right I didn't really understand your instruction and did you make the edit? Because it doesnt look any different to what you advised. As I say it's just a draft that I'm working on, I don't know anyone could see it but you help is most welcome. Hope I havent posted this message in the wrong place. Guess I will find out Nick M Rivers (talk) 22:18, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Hi, @Nick M Rivers:, see also my answer to #Roger Pryke below. I think the following explanation is correct, but I may be wrong. I'm sure I will be corrected.

Whenever anyone saves any live article / draft / sandbox which contains at least one [[Category:]], this automatically and by default creates a live link to your draft article in one or more category lists in Wikipedia mainspace. For example, if your draft has the entry [[Category:1825 births]], clicking 'Publish' will make a link to the live list Category:1825 births.

Although this is what the underlying software is programmed to do in all cases, it doesn't look professional to have un-approved drafts looking as if they were proper live articles. The quick and dirty fix is to put a : immediately preceding the category, such as [[:Category:1825 births]] : this temporarily prevents your draft appearing in the mainspace lists and makes it look and behave like an ordinary Wikilink. If there is no colon, the underlying software also creates a behind-the-scenes list of something like "User Drafts linking to Category pages" (I don't actually know). See WP:USERNOCAT.

User:BrownHairedGirl has been running through this list and adding colons as shown above with a script, without too much explanation for new editors. The whole procedure (I personally feel) is the fault of Wikipedia administrators and software maintainers, who could very easily exempt such pages with a line or two of code, (e.g. IF [user draft] OR IF [sandbox] THEN LINK=NO], (I might be wrong) but it has been like this for something like twelve years. I don't know why. Anyway, if and when your article goes live in mainspace, just delete the initial colon for each category, make an edit summary like "Making categories live" and click 'Publish' again. Your approved mainspace article will now be linked to the live list of all people born in 1825. This may happen 'automatically' anyway, depending on which process you choose to submit your draft. MinorProphet (talk) 08:17, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

@MinorProphet Thank you makes absolute sense, I just jumped right in and got started by copying and pasting an already live page into my Sandbox, so as you mention the categories would have been live. The work around is cool too, I will need to update them to be relevant to the piece anyway but hadnt realised there significance, which you explain above :-) Thanks again

I Have a Question

Hey, My Question is Why is your User Page section Administration ship Cut off Muhammad Furqan Butt (talk) 16:43, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Because Arbcom went on a rampage and desysopped me. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:44, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Link, perhaps? I'm just imagining ArbCom as a violent Communist Workers collective in the Philippines armed with machetes and billhooks, burning canefields and massacring the blameless officials whose families have been taken hostage by the ruling junta to ensure tax-gathering compliance. MinorProphet (talk) 21:54, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

@MinorProphet & @Muhammad Furqan Butt: see User talk:BrownHairedGirl/Archive/Archive_057#Statement_by_BHG_on_the_ArbCom_decision.

No machetes, but lots of foul play. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

Moral: always be civil: being uncivil can be construed as a primary crime on WP: see The Execution of Mata Hari from linked discussion. If you can't be civil (and it's one of the very hardest things to do when eg tired and emotional), step away. I'm glad you're still here, I would rather spend 10,000 words in improving an article than in my own defence. I suggest you remove your heart-felt complaints on your user page and carry on improving WP. Arbcom doesn't care, your supporters agree anyway, and it's unsettling for new users. With best wishes, MinorProphet (talk) 23:43, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, but I disagree about that interpretation of civility. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:47, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, that's what it said at the top of the link. Sorry if I misunderstood. I wasn't being aggressive. I have scrolled through too many "yes you did, no I didn't" complaints procedures to take much interest. On the other hand, I know what it's like to be swift and merciless with little time to waste. But if you end up calling other editors 'liars', well, "I told you so..." PS Habbakuk has messaged me, suggesting we turn up at his for a pot of stew. Angels will transport us if no car. MinorProphet (talk) 01:01, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Template:Flagicon

Why did you specify {{DEFAULTSORT:Law by year}} with this edit? Someone just changed that to {{DEFAULTSORT:Flagicon}} but I don't understand why the Flagicon template would specify any default sort. – wbm1058 (talk) 18:27, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@wbm1058, it looks like a clerical error by me, when copying cpde from elsewhere. The fix[2] by User:Maiō T. looks good. Note that the DEFAULTSORT is not transcluded, so this relates only to the categorisation of the template, not of pages which transclude the template. It's probably superfluous. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:45, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Category category

Hello, BHG,

I can't figure out how Category:Category got on Institutes of technology in Ireland or how to remove it. There are no recent edits to the page and I don't see how it appeared or a way to remove it. Ideas? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:58, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Liz: now fixed, in this edit.[3]
The problem was a wee glitch in some {{Update after}} tags added[4] by Le Deluge, which didn't show up until March was over. {{Update after}} really should warn about that error. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:21, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Some day, I'm going to stump you with a question. But it hasn't happened yet! Thank you for your quick work! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:52, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Liz: haha.
That one actually took me about ten minutes. I started at the top, and ripped out the paragraphs one-by-one until the Category:Category disappeared. Inevitably, the para which removed the Category:Category was near the bottom of the page. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:58, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Courtesy notice

Hey BHG, always great to see your continuing good work. I wanted to let you know I plan to nominate the Category:Cultural infrastructure . . . category structure for deletion in the next couple of days; will post the discussion link in this thread once the nom is up and the cats are tagged (rather than hitting your talk with every individual notice). Wanted to let you know in advance as a courtesy so the nom did not take you by surprise. Will leave further discussion to the nom, and look forward to your contribution there. UnitedStatesian (talk) 21:56, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, @UnitedStatesian, both for the headsup and for the kind words.

That nomination was my first thought when I first saw those categories. But then I did some searching on Google and JSTOR, and it seem to me that a) the term is in wide use, so it's not a wiki-neologism; b) it has a clear meaning; c) it is a useful way of grouping topics.

That's why instead of CFDing that category tree, I have been building the tree. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:51, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Members of the Parliament of England (pre-1707) by parliament has been nominated for splitting

Category:Members of the Parliament of England (pre-1707) by parliament has been nominated for splitting. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Furicorn (talk) 21:34, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Alopoglossidae has been nominated for deletion

Category:Alopoglossidae has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 (𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 15:46, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Another category query

Hello, again, BHG,

One thing that has bothered me over the years is that if an editor labels a category a "Tracking Category" or puts an Empty Category tag on a category, it's basically hands off. It's left alone and doesn't seem to be subject to deletion even if it is empty, it is no longer serving its original purpose or is just no longer useful. And when I went to look for policy to support these tags, when a category is labeled a Tracking Category or when an Empty Category tag is appropriate, I can't find anything. A couple years ago, I did a search for how many categories are labeled as Empty Categories and I think it was 20,000. Of course, I think we have millions of categories so that is just a drop in a bucket but it shouldn't just be a free pass when we have procedures to deal with categories.

This issue came up today because an editor created a new Tracking Category which I'm sure no one else knows about and I went looking to see what the policy is surrounding them. Thoughts? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:38, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi Liz

AFAIK there is nothing documented, so you are not missing anything.

When tracking categories come to CFD, the approach taken usually amounts to "keep if the tracking function seems useful to somebody".

The fact that the category is empty is not a great guide to its utility. Many such categories just track errors, so emptiness is mostly just an indicator that it is well-patrolled.

What I would like to see is some requirement for documentation of a tracking category, explaining what it is for and how its populated ... and similar documentation of the template. Some tracking cats have long been redundant, so there is probably a lot of scope for cleanup, but in general they do no harm. Cleanup could also be highly disruptive, requiring a lot skilled forensic work ... and I wonder if that's a good use of anyone's time. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:04, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

I think what resonates with me here in your reply is whether "that's a good use of anyone's time". When I thought about doing a review, I was thinking more of reviewing categories labeled Empty Categories since I think most that's a tag that any editor could slap on any category but most editors wouldn't know about Tracking Categories which typically are for administrative use.

I guess it would help if I was more specific so the category that came up yesterday is Category:Articles using draft categories. It has been empty when I checked but after talking with the category creator, there is now an Empty Category tag on it so I guess I will let it be even though I don't exactly understand what bot is placing articles into it. Thanks again for sharing your encyclopedic knowledge! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:35, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

@Liz, Category:Articles using draft categories is a good example of a well-documented category. It's populated by {{Draft categories}}, which isn't widely used, so it's often empty. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:51, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Request for help: local work needed. Namely adding election years to your local historic/current MPs...can you help?

Evening fellow project member, we have reached a consensus that the section Members of Parliament for every local constituency needs to list out the successes. To do this, we will form a comma-separated list (adding <br> if more than 3 successful elections in a row, so as to make a taller table line for any re-elected MP(s). i.e. always to show the elections, not the first election gain that person was voted in at. Since 1885 at least.

Could you let me know, clicking on this part of my talk page if you could help by doing the Seats in any given county (or counties)? - Adam37 Talk 18:47, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

If so, ⇒ INSERT: (if you'd like to keep this page as a tab open, to assist with doing a fairly old but current seat) ALL/ANY APPLICABLE OF:-

[after 1st two table technical (coding lines) left intact]...

! Elected/re-elected ! colspan="2" | Member ! Party |- | [[1885 United Kingdom general election|1885]] '''[add comma and paste from choices below/own copying and pasting based on results table, including BY-ELECTION WIN OF SAME PERSON, not new line like below, if re-elected]''' | [[1886 United Kingdom general election|1886]] | [[1892 United Kingdom general election|1892]] | [[1895 United Kingdom general election|1895]], [[1900 United Kingdom general election|1900]], [[1906 United Kingdom general election|1906]], <br>[[January 1910 United Kingdom general election|Jan 1910]], [[December 1910 United Kingdom general election|Dec 1910]] | [[1918 United Kingdom general election|1918]] | [[1922 United Kingdom general election|1922]] | [[1923 United Kingdom general election|1923]] | [[1924 United Kingdom general election|1924]] | [[1929 United Kingdom general election|1929]] | [[1931 United Kingdom general election|1931]] | [[1935 United Kingdom general election|1935]] | [[1945 United Kingdom general election|1945]] | [[1950 United Kingdom general election|1950]] | [[1951 United Kingdom general election|1951]] | [[1955 United Kingdom general election|1955]] | [[1957 United Kingdom general election|1957]] | [[1964 United Kingdom general election|1964]] | [[1966 United Kingdom general election|1966]] | [[1970 United Kingdom general election|1970]] | [[February 1974 United Kingdom general election|Feb. 1974]] | [[October 1974 United Kingdom general election|Oct. 1974]] | [[1979 United Kingdom general election|1979]] | [[1983 United Kingdom general election|1983]] | [[1987 United Kingdom general election|1987]] | [[1992 United Kingdom general election|1992]] | [[1997 United Kingdom general election|1997]] | [[2001 United Kingdom general election|2001]] | [[2005 United Kingdom general election|2005]] | [[2010 United Kingdom general election|2010]] |[[2015 United Kingdom general election|2015]], [[2017 United Kingdom general election|2017]], [[2019 United Kingdom general election|2019]]

At the very least our FTTP democracy thanks you for your very time in reading this.- Adam37 Talk 18:47, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

• @User:Adam37, the discussion has had low participation, and has not been closed. Not even you has attempted to post a summary of the discussion.

So I am absolutely horrified to see that you have posted this message to dozen of talk pages. Quite apart from jumping ahead of consensus, it is a form of spam. Please revert promptly. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:53, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

This is a matter of timescale. Perhaps if you felt that you should have made it clear. What is the BIG change. Talk about loss of sense of proportion. The very issue our agreed changes FIX.- Adam37 Talk 19:00, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

@Adam37, the loss of perspective is your pronouncing consensus and spamming. Please revert, or I may need to escalate. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:02, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

I'll revert but only if you help form the sort of concrete consensus you are after. How can I second-guess that. You are logical. You are helpful. There's no need to tread beyond gingerly. It's really not a big deal.- Adam37 Talk 19:05, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

@Adam37, back off very fast from that line, because it's exasperating and infuriating. See the post I am writing at the project page, and which I hope to post in a few minutes. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:10, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

I assumed you had loads of time to read and think about Chessrat's opinion; the other two in favour. And the way Rushcliff would look, which is the same style, it's not a third option. And didn't expect the sudden interjection of what transpires to be an almost 100%-supporter of your objections. Who I know is not a sockpuppet as I do follow the articles for YEARS. It's just like being given a dog biscuit by someone that's all. You just could accede to novelty and fairness. Rather than keep whacking the drum for readability wins all. Our's is a lot simpler than the US and Canada ones. So reflect. Reflechissez!- Adam37 Talk 19:56, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

@Adam37, you have become a massively annoying timesink, and now you are trying to make more drama. I have no patience with this sort of game-playing, so please just knock it off and allow the substantive discussion to proceed. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:32, 8 April 2021 (UTC)]

Just apologise for your delay in Chessrat's point followed by his table and/or my same-time roughly point about it being a great solution and demolishing the concerns/points for the status quo. If you don't want to then just accept you have equally caused a lot of time and thought to be spent on something which looked like a done deal. In any court of opinion.- Adam37 Talk 20:39, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

@Adam37, the only timewasting is the disruption caused by your decision to unilaterally proclaim a consensus, and then start spamming. Right now, you appear to me to be conducting yourself as a malicious childish troll who has limited comprehension of both the substantive issues and the consensus-forming process. If that is not how you want to perceived, then stop making drama, and restrict yourself to concise contributions on the substance. But either way, stay off my talkpage: any further comments here by you will be treated as trolling, and reverted. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:49, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Flood category help

I'm currently in the process of working to implement some wikiproject mergers and accidentally made some duplicate categories for one thing due to a capitalization error in the original categories. Could you please move the categories listed at Category:Flood_articles_by_quality to have "Flood" instead of "flood"? Also, the Category:Flood articles by importance (lower case "flood" categories) for importance are empty since I changed/fixed the parameter. Sorry about that. Noah^Talk 12:57, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

@Hurricane Noah, I think that the lowercase titles are correct. See e.g. the subcats of Category:Animal articles by quality. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:14, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

PS @Hurricane Noah, I have reverted[5] your edit to Template:WikiProject Meteorology, and restored the lowercase title for the assessment cats. If you want to propose a change, open a WP:CFD discussion. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:38, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Journal of Paramedic Practice

Hiya, I would appreciate some advice on making this draft page acceptable for publication - I saw you've edited a few Nursing Journal pages, so thought you might have some good insights? Tannim101 (talk) 21:34, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi Tannim101, my edits to Nursing Journal pages werepurely technical. So I'm sorry, but I have no topic expertise to offer, and it's not my area of interest. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:37, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

• No worries, I thought it might be worth asking Tannim101 (talk) 21:54, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

John Archibald Mills

Hello Brown Haired Girl,

 Two years ago, you posted an article on John Archibald Mills.  He was an MP in the Alberta legislature.  I have no edits for you, just a thank you.  I’m sure my grandfather would be quite flattered.

   Beeronysus Beeronysus (talk) 02:32, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Flood category help

I'm currently in the process of working to implement some wikiproject mergers and accidentally made some duplicate categories for one thing due to a capitalization error in the original categories. Could you please move the categories listed at Category:Flood_articles_by_quality to have "Flood" instead of "flood"? Also, the Category:Flood articles by importance (lower case "flood" categories) for importance are empty since I changed/fixed the parameter. Sorry about that. Noah^Talk 12:57, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

@Hurricane Noah, I think that the lowercase titles are correct. See e.g. the subcats of Category:Animal articles by quality. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:14, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

PS @Hurricane Noah, I have reverted[6] your edit to Template:WikiProject Meteorology, and restored the lowercase title for the assessment cats. If you want to propose a change, open a WP:CFD discussion. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:38, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Journal of Paramedic Practice

Hiya, I would appreciate some advice on making this draft page acceptable for publication - I saw you've edited a few Nursing Journal pages, so thought you might have some good insights? Tannim101 (talk) 21:34, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi Tannim101, my edits to Nursing Journal pages werepurely technical. So I'm sorry, but I have no topic expertise to offer, and it's not my area of interest. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:37, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

• No worries, I thought it might be worth asking Tannim101 (talk) 21:54, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

John Archibald Mills

Hello Brown Haired Girl,

 Two years ago, you posted an article on John Archibald Mills.  He was an MP in the Alberta legislature.  I have no edits for you, just a thank you.  I’m sure my grandfather would be quite flattered.

   Beeronysus Beeronysus (talk) 02:32, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Removal of Category markers when developing a page in sandbox

Hi There! Thanks for your heads up that I'd left the category tags in place on my user sandbox page User:Thedwan/sandbox. I was working on my first new article creation recently - Alex McKinnon Cup - and I forgot to wipe the Sandbox page afterwards. :) Thedwan (talk) 10:32, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Need Your Favour

Hey, I have created a Draft Article: Draft:Bugha and don't worry it has Reference from Forbes, The New York Times, Arab News, Wall Street Journal, BBC , CNN, ESPN, and many more and i would like if you check it out and hopefully approve it Unnecessary Invention (talk) 11:50, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, @Unnecessary Invention, but that is not my sort of topic at all.

I suggest that you seek out editors who are interested in that sort of sport.

Best wishes, --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:31, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Ok :)) Unnecessary Invention (talk) 17:02, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

SBs

Having an intention to write an article concerning teaching English pronunciation, methinks, it seems to be exceedingly important to know tha authors of the most popular SBs in your country. I think, these are Ann Baker "Tree or three", "Ship or sheep"; English Pronunciation in Use ; Get rid of your accent; O'Connor and Fletcher "Sounds English Am I right? Is it possible to study it without a good instructor?Роман Сергеевич Сидоров (talk) 10:46, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

@Роман Сергеевич Сидоров: I don't know what you mean by "SBs", and I don't understand your question or why you asked me. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:48, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Well I understand the question. The most elementary search reveals that SB = "Student's Book": and, my dear Роман Сергеевич Сидоров, the answer to "Is it possible to study it without a good instructor?" is obviously "No" or/или "Нет". I could teach you, but I am unfortunately busy until Doomsday. Anyway, not even the English know how to pronounce (let alone spell) their own language. There are, on the other hand, literally hundreds of dialects of 'British' English which change dramatically within 30 miles (45 верст) or less. Check out Mancunian and Scouse. In Wales, they are still wary of the folks who live on the other side of the valley. Try the New York Times British-Irish Dialect Quiz. Why, BHG, were you asked? Coz you're famous, obvs. MinorProphet (talk) 03:06, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

User:PamD/WRC

Ah, sorry about that - someone userfied it for me at my request after they'd speedy-deleted it, and I haven't got round to doing anything with it yet! PamD 20:29, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

No prob, PamD. It's a quick click to fix it with the script. I am more than half way through a backlog of nearly 800 userpages in content cats.--BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:31, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

When will you ?? Travis Damian Houle (talk) 06:27, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

@Travis Damian Houle: when will who what? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:16, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Indian Institute of Technology Madras people has been nominated for renaming

Category:Indian Institute of Technology Madras people has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Oculi (talk) 10:08, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 April 2021

• From the editor: A change is gonna come

• Disinformation report: Paid editing by a former head of state's business enterprise

• In the media: Fernando, governance, and rugby

• Opinion: The (Universal) Code of Conduct

• Op-Ed: A Little Fun Goes A Long Way

• Changing the world: The reach of protest images on Wikipedia

• Recent research: Quality of aquatic and anatomical articles

• Traffic report: The verdict is guilty, guilty, guilty

• News from Wiki Education: Encouraging professional physicists to engage in outreach on Wikipedia

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:31, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 April 2021

• From the editor: A change is gonna come

• Disinformation report: Paid editing by a former head of state's business enterprise

• In the media: Fernando, governance, and rugby

• Opinion: The (Universal) Code of Conduct

• Op-Ed: A Little Fun Goes A Long Way

• Changing the world: The reach of protest images on Wikipedia

• Recent research: Quality of aquatic and anatomical articles

• Traffic report: The verdict is guilty, guilty, guilty

• News from Wiki Education: Encouraging professional physicists to engage in outreach on Wikipedia

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:29, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia Writer

Hi BrownHairedGirl. Thanks for the suggestion on JoshMortonMusic Sandbox. Are you available to write wikipedia pages for payment? I need help, I'm kinda lost

Pretty please with a cherry on top. -JoshMortonMusic JoshMortonMusic (talk) 03:19, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, @JoshMortonMusic. I am not available for paid editing, and in any case your area of interest (rap music) does not interest me. I just made a small technical edit to your sandbox,[7] along with dozens of other user sandboxes which I identify by a search.

Also, your userpage make it very clear that you have a conflict of interest (COI), and are using Wikipedia to promote your business interests. So I am pleased to see that my wonderful colleague PamD has already taken action. Pam has wisely tagged your userpage as a candidate for speedy deletion, and posted a COI warning on your talk page.[8] --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:11, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much. I wish you well in all that do. JoshMortonMusic (talk) 12:10, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Roman Catholic clergy in Ireland

Hello, BHG,

I was surprised to see this category pop up on the Daily Empty Category list so I have placed what I think are appropriate categories in it but it's odd, there is a priest category for Northern Ireland but only a bishops category for the Republic of Ireland. Since you know both categories and Ireland very well, I thought I'd ask you to double-check and see if this was emptied out-of-process. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:20, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

​Special:Diff/1019955510 and Special:Diff/1016557902 were the only two recent, direct edits to remove contents from the category. — JJMC89 (T·C) 06:08, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Liz and JJMC89. There is an editor who does a lot of categorisation in that area, and has a long history of out-of-process category emptying etc, and another who is prolific but has not great judgement, so this happens not infrequently. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:39, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

a sweet gift for a sweet person

U.J (talk) 18:43, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

RfA2?

Hello! As a longtime and extremely frequent reader (if not exactly much of an editor) of Wikipedia perusing an unrelated topic, I stumbled across the existence of something called ArbCom and became quite curious as to how this body operates, and fascinated by the workings and history of that body. Rather inexplicably becoming more and more absorbed, I've spent much of the last 72 hours reading through several of the cases they have ruled on in the last several years, as well as surrounding materials such as RfA requests and the FRAMGATE saga. I say this only to provide an explanation as to why a user with only a single 12-year-old edit knows or cares about this; it is because I read the Portals case and some surrounding materials during this process, discovered that you remain a highly active contributor, and have a question for you.

So far as I can tell, the last thing that happened connected to those events was in October 2020 with a second RfA page in which you are renominated, with an accompanying Arbcom motion lifting your topic bans for that second RfA. However, the RfA itself seems to have been abandoned.

In a statement after the close of Portals, you expressed great discomfort regarding certain findings of fact which you felt would be a permanent stain on your record. As someone who is approximately as uninvolved with all this as it is possible to be and literally only knows about you because of that Arbcom case, I think the stain is not quite so bad as you thought, then or now. What matters more, I would say, is that despite having the both the stated intention and ample justification for abandoning this project, you did not do so at any point. The fact that you are still actively helping 15 months later speaks both to your extraordinary dedication to the project and to your subsequent ability to abide by a ruling with which you clearly strongly disagreed (otherwise you would probably be blocked, rather than actively editing). For most (perhaps even all) of the other participants in the cases I read, I have been less impressed with their subsequent record.

As I said at the start, I am not really an editor here, but I most certainly am a frequent reader, and it's in my interest that the high quality of content here is maintained. My sense is that you probably have nearly as good as case for reinstatement after an ArbCom desysop as it is possible to have from a "subsequent activity" standpoint, so my question is...whatever happened to your second RfA, and have you any interest in going back to it?

ShashakiroSH (talk) 20:54, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

May 2021 at Women in Red

Women in Red | May 2021, Volume 7, Issue 5, Numbers 184, 188, 197, 198 Online events: New: May Mays | Mental Health Contest (Apr/May/Jun): Women in Europe contest Year-long campaign: Women's rights Continuing: #1day1woman See also: Wikimedia District of Columbia: 100 DC Women contest Wikimedia CEE Spring: Central and Eastern European Women contest The Wikipedia Library: #1Lib1Ref Other ways to participate: Join the conversations on our talkpage | Help us plan future events Become a member | Opt-out of notifications Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Rosiestep (talk) 21:35, 28 April 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Roger Pryke

Thank you for your correction/suggestion. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Gladiator-Citizen/sandbox - never done that well with Categories - I do not understand your correction, but I appreciate it, and will follow it for other categories. Could you direct me to a precise reference which I could study and would help me understand. Much thanks again.Gladiator-Citizen (talk) 23:59, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Hi, @Gladiator-Citizen: Whenever you click 'Publish' in a sandbox or draft article which contains one or more [[Categories: towards the end, it places a link to your sandbox/draft article into a live listing on Wikipedia, such as (just for example) Category:British artists. As far as I know, this is a failing of Wikipedia's underlying software rather than anything you have done. WP is complex, and telling new editors about this small problem hasn't been adequately addressed. Since the content of sandboxes, drafts etc. hasn't yet been approved for main article space, and 'we' don't want ordinary users of WP thinking that your sandbox is has been fully approved, placing a : before the category e.g. [[:Category:British artists]] simply prevents this happening. If and when your article goes live, all you you need to do is remove the initial colon, and your article will be part of the behind-the-scenes listings of all articles referring (if only in part) to British artists. You could try using {{Draft categories}} but it seems like piling on another level of incomprehension to me. See also Help:Category and Preparing drafts. Best of luck. MinorProphet (talk) 02:18, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much @MinorProphet - very much appreciate your time and information - I will keep trying to understand - I am now quite exhausted from finishing the article but my energy will come back! 118.127.122.147 (talk) 09:22, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

You also sent a message to me today about this. Thank you. I had no idea that anyone except me could see what was in my sandbox. Athel cb (talk) 08:53, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

You're welcome, @Athel cb. All non-deleted pages on Wikipedia are publicly visible, including pages in the draft namespace and pages in user sandboxes.

The WP:USERNOCAT issue which triggered my edit[9] to your sandboxes (and dozens of other sandboxes) sounds like an obscure issue, but as MinorProphet helpfully explained above, it's about ensuring that content categories include only articles which are intended to be presented to the public as encyclopedic content.

Thank for being so nice about it. I wasted a bit of time yesterday with one editor who sent me a flurry of angry emails, and while about 30% of these edits prompt the editor to send me a thanks notification, it's very nice to have an actual posted message. And thank you too for developing an article about an academic: it's a welcome change from the deluge of popular culture topics. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:29, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I think I was only moderately nice about it, as it's only normal politeness to acknowledge useful information that one receives. I've been editing Wikipedia for less than a year and there are still plenty of things I don't know. With few exceptions most the articles I've worked on existed already (including the one on W. W. Cleland that you mention). About a year ago I had occasion to consult the List of biochemists and was appalled at how bad it was. Many of the people who created biochemistry in the 20th century were missing (I counted about 60 that I've subsequently added) including quite a few Nobel prizewinners. On the other hand there were lots of people with only the most tenuous claims to be called biochemists (the father of an actress, a purveyor of quack medicine, someone famous for her ignorance of basic chemistry, a successful writer of science fiction and popular science, etc.). I thought no one would do anything about it unless I did, so that's when I decided to sign up as an editor. Athel cb (talk) 14:57, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Editor's Barnstar
	Thank you so much for the edits on my wiki article! Much appreciated. Eemakagoma (talk) 16:56, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Draft Declined; The Subject is the Head Coach of Professional Football Club, FC Kolhapur City

Help in getting this draft Verified. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Muzamil_Mahmood The Subject is a professional Asian football confederation, B licensed Coach and has good search results. Darzubair (talk) 11:27, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, @Darzubair, but that's not at all my area of interest. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:38, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Category:Songs written by Mahmoud Darwish has been nominated for deletion

Category:Songs written by Mahmoud Darwish has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Richhoncho (talk) 17:29, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Categories in sandbox

Apologies, forgot about these when I pasted text about Sonia Bassey back into my sandbox (in case the page was suddenly deleted). I will try to remember about inactivating these commands in future.--MerielGJones (talk) 08:36, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, @MerielGJones. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:14, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Category:Ambassadors of China to Eswatini has been nominated for renaming

Category:Ambassadors of China to Eswatini has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:38, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Category:Paco Paco songs has been nominated for deletion

Category:Paco Paco songs has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Richhoncho (talk) 23:04, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Articles containing Luo (Kenya and Tanzania)-language text

A tag has been placed on Category:Articles containing Luo (Kenya and Tanzania)-language text indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 15:02, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – May 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2021).

Administrator changes

Enchanter • Carlossuarez46

Interface administrator changes

Ragesoss

Guideline and policy news

• Following an RfC, consensus was found that third party appeals are allowed but discouraged.
• The 2021 Desysop Policy RfC was closed with no consensus. Consensus was found in a previous RfC for a community based desysop procedure, though the procedure proposed in the 2021 RfC did not gain consensus.

Technical news

• The user group oversight will be renamed to suppress. This is for technical reasons. You can comment at T112147 if you have objections.

Arbitration

• The community consultation on the Arbitration Committee discretionary sanctions procedure was closed, and an initial draft based on feedback from the now closed consultation is expected to be released in early June to early July for community review.

---

• Discuss this newsletter
• Subscribe
• Archive

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:51, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Adding templates

Hi. I noticed that you were adding templates to articles which are linked from the templates. One such example is: edit. In this case, this article is a generic term and the addition of the template does not make sense, despite the article being linked from the template. What are your thoughts? -- DaxServer (talk) 16:00, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi DaxServer, and thanks for being so eagle-eyed.

I try to exclude such generic terms, but it seems that I missed that one. So I have removed it.[10] --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:04, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello again! Could you add the templates to Navboxes if present, like here :) -- DaxServer (talk) 10:32, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, @DaxServer, but I can't. AWB doesn't do that automatically, and there are far too many additions to manually tweak them. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:35, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Wish it could! -- DaxServer (talk) 10:39, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

@DaxServer if that was possible, then I'd do it, to follow existing layout.

But {{Navboxes}} is wildly overused, and I'd like to see it restricted to cases where there are at least 7 or 8 navboxes, because hiding a smaller set of navboxes is an impediment to navigation with no help to readability ... so I'd like AWB to remove it when there are fewer uses. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

Hello! Would you kindly add template {{Portalbar|India|Aviation}} to Airports and related topics in India related articles? This would be helpful, that is of course if AWB has automation for it. Else, I would try to do it. If possible "Topics of x" template is helpful. One example is Dabolim Airport. Thanks for your much help :) -- DaxServer (talk) 18:08, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

@DaxServer, I'm sorry, but ArbCom in its most glorious and eternal infinite wisdom forbids me from even discussing this with you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:08, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

I understand. May the Fourth be with You! And the Force, of course :) Thanks for the templates you added so far!! -- DaxServer (talk) 19:11, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Special:Diff/1020737906

I usually use {{userpage blanked|reason=and the draft content has been moved to [[]] per [[WP:FAKEARTICLE]]}} as might provide slightly more information. Just letting you know in case you didn't know about the template; your practice is probably fine as well. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 18:06, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, @1234qwer1234qwer4. That method wouldn't suit my workflow so well, and its text would be untrue. But I will add WP:FAKEARTICLE to my notes in future. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:12, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your work!

I just edited Nicola Sturgeon, and lo and behold, the previous edit was by you! Thank you for sticking around on Wikipedia even after what the ArbCom did to you, and I hope all of us appreciate that nothing on Wikipedia really matters. :) Egroeg5 (talk) 20:05, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Bless you, @Egroeg5:. That is very kind of you.

It was the kindness of so many other editors that persuaded me to stay on after I was done over by ArbCom. This means a lot to me --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:11, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Wales AMs

Hi BHG, I notice you created Category:Wales AMs 2021–, though since 2020 the elected members have been known as Members of the Senedd, or MSs. Maybe it will be quicker to change if you can request a speedy rename, as the creator, to Category:Wales MSs 2021–. Diolch/Thanks. Sionk (talk) 01:53, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Sionk, I thought of that before I created the cat, but decided to keep consistency for now. My priority was to populate the cat; its title can be changed whenever.

If the 2021 cat is renamed, then the 2016 cat should also be renamed. And it may not be speediable.

So I reckoned that either way a full discussion would be needed. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:00, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Maybe I'll raise it at CfD then. Welsh Parliament members were AMs until 2020, but they are definitely now MSs. Sionk (talk) 02:06, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Fair enough, Sionk. But if you do a CFD, please do both cats together. No point in going over it twice. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:09, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

That will be for someone else. As I said, they were AMs between 2016 and 2020, for the vast majority of the previous term. Sionk (talk) 02:11, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2021_May_9#Category:Wales_AMs_2021– Sionk (talk) 02:27, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

That is a pity, @Sionk. I'd have preferred to be able to support the nom. but I have opposed[11] that cherrypicking of policy. Further discussion should be at CFD. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:21, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Template:Rayment

Time to remove the tags? Srnec (talk) 23:03, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

On what grounds, @Srnec?

I wasn't a fan of adding the tags, but I accepted that while Rayment's site was remarkably accurate, it did not meet the criteria of WP:RS.

Now, nearly a decade later, Rayment's site has long gone. And we have an alternative for most periods, in the shape of https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/

So the uses of Template:Rayment (and its siblings) should continue to be replaced, but so long as they are used, they should be tagged. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:35, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

On the grounds that since the tags were placed, it survived a TFD. Srnec (talk) 16:10, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Template question

BHG,

Would it be possible for you to create a Newspaper Establishments and Newspaper disestablishments templates something along the lines of Companies established in the year/disestablished in the year? I ask you because I know you have done template work around WP and that you recently did work on or created Newspaper establishment categories. I've created two myself and spent time filling some of those already created. Thanks in advance for any help....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 15:54, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi WilliamJE

Yes it would. I am currently busy with the Scottish+Welsh elections, but I hope that later in the week I will get back to templating, and I will put that on the list.

I already have some stuff in draft, so I hope it wont be a hard job.

If I don't get back to you by the end of the week, please can you gimme a poke?

Best wishes, --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:13, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks BHG. Take your time. You can ping me here again or post to my talk page after you make the templates....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 16:17, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Will do . --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:22, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

IndiGo Airlines wiki page - Fleet

Hello! I hope you are doing fine.

Since you were the last person to edit the wiki page for IndiGo, I wanted to let you know that the airline is planning to induct four Airbus A321P2F. The airline is expecting to receive its first A321 freighter by June of 2021 and start its freighter operations soon after that. I would highly appreciate it if you add/direct this to a person who can add this into the fleet section of the airline's Wikipedia page. (I would have done it by myself however I don't know how to do it and am just figuring out Wikipedia's editing side :sweat-smile:)

Source for this: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/pandemic-effect-indigo-to-induct-freighters-in-its-fleet/articleshow/82183050.cms

Thank you and good day! --Hari.shreyas08 (talk) 07:26, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Hari.shreyas08:

Thanks for your message, but you got the wrong person.

I have no substantive interest or expertise in the topic. My edits to IndiGo were both technical: one to add a category[12] and one to clean up formatting[13].

I suggest you post comments on Talk:IndiGo, where you are more likely to find other interested editors. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:59, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Categories Mass media companies established in

BHG,

I've noticed you added 'Companies established in year' to these pages. There is only one problem. These categories are already categorized entertainment companies established in. So that's overcategorization since Entertainment companies is a subcategory of Companies. I'm kind of lukewarm towards mass media being subcategorized entertainment. Before I have over 150 redlights popping up on your page as I revert the companies established you added, I'd like your thoughts on this....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 10:58, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

@WilliamJE, please can you make it easier for me to respond by posting some links, as requested in the big editnotice above?

Thanks. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:00, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Example Mass Media Companies established in 1942[14]. Note it is subcategorized both Entertainment companies and Companies established.

Your edit adding 'Companies established in 1942'[15].

I discovered other problems with categorizing (Not your fault BTW) while getting these links for you. Some of which involve a template which will need tweeking. You're burdened with other things right now, so I'll hold that for later....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:28, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the links, WilliamJE. They make discussion much easier ... tho it's most helpful to add them as wikilinks, e.g. Category:Mass media companies established in 1942 rather than as external [16]. Wikilinking them creates a linked title, which is much more clear and much easier to use.

I added the parent [[Category:Companies established in {{title year}}]] to all subcats of Category:Mass media companies by year of establishment in an AWB run, in accordance with WP:SUBCAT. The reason is that not all mass media companies are primarily dedicated to entertainment: e.g. newspapers are not primarily about entertainment. So in my view, this is one of the exceptions allowed by WP:SUBCAT.

Hope that helps. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:42, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

BHG, Newspapers are not categorized Mass Media Companies. They are categorized Publications or Newspapers established in. See Category:Publications established in 1909 or Category:Newspapers established in 1909. Take for instance Category:Mass media companies established in 2008. Newspapers or Publications aren't a subcategory or category entry. Cox Media Group is. One of its past newspapers The Palm Beach Post isn't. Cox has other holdings, including television stations BTW. Mass media companies establishment pages are overcategorized by being in both Entertainment and Companies established....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:59, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

@WilliamJE, are you trying to tell me that a newspaper is not a type of mass media? Really? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:14, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm telling you the way they are categorized....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:32, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

@WilliamJE: so they are not already categorised under mass media, but they should be. That's one of of the issues to address when I start templating. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:35, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Please give us a chance to catch up

Hello BHG. You've been on a spree and now there are over 120 articles in the Category:All articles with bare URLs for citations. It is going to take some time to empty the cat so if you can hold off on adding anymore tags for a bit it will give the few of us who work on them a chance to catch up. You see it only takes a second to add the tag but it can take several minutes (or longer in some cases) to format the refs. Add to that the fact that other editors will be adding articles to the cat as well and I'm not sure how many days it will take to get to all of these. Anything you can do will be appreciated. MarnetteD|Talk 00:52, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi MarnetteD, I had meant to leave you a note about my AWB-assisted tagging, so thank for coming here to answer the question I was going to ask: am I overdoing it?

I will just keep on list-making for now, but not tagging until the backlog clears.

Thanks again for all your good work on formatting refs. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:00, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

For me when the cat gets up around 30 I know its going to take a hefty chunk out of my editing time if not all of it. I know they will still be there when I get back but it is nice if I can empty the cat and then do any newly added ones when I return to editing. One thing you might consider - if an article only has one or two bare urls (more than that becomes a drag on your editing time so don't worry about those) you could click on them to see if they still work. If they do then you can leave the article for us to add the cite template. If they don't then you can mark them with a {{dead link}} tag and not use the linkrot template at all. Now this is just a suggestion and you are under no obligation to add this to your work load at all. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 01:14, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

@MarnetteD, I have been thinking some more about this, and want to run my thoughts past you.

AFAIK, all other cleanup tags are added simply when there is a problem that needs to be cleaned up. Sometimes the issue is resolved promptly and the tag is removed promptly, and sometimes the problem remain unfixed for years.

That may mean that few pages are tagged, or it may mean lots of pages have the tag. What drives the tagging is simply whether editors identify a problem, so the number of currently-tagged pages is simply a measure of the balance between the problem being identified and the problem being resolved.

For example, {{Citation needed}} is on over 400,000 pages in Category:All articles with unsourced statements. Many other tags have similarly large backlogs, while some are cleared more thoroughly, e.g. Category:Unreferenced BLPs, where the backlog is not too horrible.

I can't see any reason to treat {{Cleanup bare URLs}} any differently. I have scanned Template:Cleanup bare URLs and Template talk:Cleanup bare URLs, and I don't see any guidance to hold back from tagging, or even any discussion suggesting restraint.

So my inclination now is to finish my AWB run, and tag the more than 1,000 pages identified in my AWB run, and currently awaiting tagging.

However I am conscious of all your good work filling the refs, and I don't want to discourage you by swamping your in-tray. So it occurred to me that I could hold off until the end of the month, and then tag them all on 31 May. That would leave a backlog in Category:Articles with bare URLs for citations from May 2021, but thereafter Category:Articles with bare URLs for citations from June 2021 would include only the latest additions. I hope that would be a win-win solution for everyone.

How does that sound to you? I would also welcome input from anyone else watching this talk page. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:12, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

I do understand where you are coming from but, here are a few things to consider. Your comparisons to other tags like citation needed tags is an apples to oranges situation. There are three tools - refills, reflinks and citer - that help to put bare urls in cite templates. That is a big part of why the work that category creates can be taken care of in ways the other ones cannot. Now there are a few few bare urls that have to be done manually but all cn tags have to be done by hand. The BLP needing references is also a different situation as my experience shows that there are many many more bios that need sourcing than those that have been tagged. Also, please remember there are other articles being tagged for bare urls all the time so it will be far more than 1000 in the intray. Even though you have a way to split them by the month they will all still be in the main bare url category. If you feel the need to do this then fine. It does mean that, for my own peace of mind, I will be retiring from fixing bare urls so it may take a long time for many of those articles to get fixed. I have been considering moving on to other tasks for awhile anyway. My apologies because I am sure this response will make you angry with me yet again. You are a good (nay great) editor who does a lot for the project and I am aware that my request is problematic for you. Best regards and enjoy the rest of your week. MarnetteD|Talk 16:16, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Follow up thought. Is there any chance that you can create a page where you list the ones that need fixing without tagging them with the template? That way they can be worked on a few at a time while the main cat just has the new ones that get added daily. I know this may not seem like much of a difference for you but I think that those of us who work on that main cat take some pride on emptying it as quickly as possible. I understand if this doesn't work for you. MarnetteD|Talk 19:23, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

@MarnetteD: that could be done, but it seems to me to be pointless. The benefits of tagging the article are:

1. there is a visible note on the article that it needs fixing, so that any passing editor can take action
2. it is automatically categorised by the month when the tag was added
3. when the refs are fixed and the tag removed, the article is removed from the category

Your suggestion of creating a separate list has many disadvantages:

1. No visible tag on the page
2. No categorisation of the article
3. Nobody knows where the list is
4. No automatic removal from the list

So, no I won't make a list because I think it would be almost entirely useless.

As above, I don't want to impede your work ... but I don't understand why your desire to clear a category cannot be satisfied by clearing the current monthly category. Please can you explain that?

BTW, I am sorry that you think I am angry with you. I am not at all angry; just puzzled why you object to normal tagging practice. It seems to me that a clever structure already exists to allow you work from a category which can reasonably be cleared every day, and I don't understand why you want to work instead off the catch-all category. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:41, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

I guess you are puzzled because you don't have a sense of the work involved. The monthly category is meaningless since they are also in the main category as I already mentioned. AFAIK no one is monitoring them by the month. Waiting until May 1 does not make any difference to the work involved so you might as well run your program now. The number of editors monitoring the cat is small. I hope they don't get put off by not being able to empty the cat. In your first post you mention "I will just keep on list-making for now" but now you say you wont make a list. For the last four or five years monitoring the cat was okay because it was manageable chunks and now it won't be. I know that this is just me having a crummy attitude. Apologies for that. I do hope others will continue to fix them :-) MarnetteD|Talk 19:55, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

It does make me miss the days when we could start an edit-a-thon :-) MarnetteD|Talk 20:03, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

@MarnetteD: the monthly categories exist already. Why on earth do you not want to use them? What exactly is the problem?

There are thousands of articles which have this problem, and which could be tagged now (or as I propose, at the end of the month). That way, every editor who views one of those pages would see the problem and could fix it.

You say you'd like an edit-a-thon. But the point of cleanup tags is that they facilitate a sort of decentralised edit-a-thon, in which there needs be no central co-ordination.

Sadly, it seems to me that your opposition to that cleanup is as you say "a crummy attitude". (I wouldn't choose that phrasing, but I can't disagree with your description). You have a way to continue exactly as you do now, just by using a different category. It's a very imple, tiny change to your workflow ... yet you prefer to ask that identified problems go untagged and therefore unfixed. That's very odd and very sad. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:42, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

So you say "I don't want to discourage you by swamping your in-tray" and then you tell me that is exactly what you are going to do. If you can find editors who use the monthly cats then good deal. It is not a tiny change and your claim that I want things to go unfixed as an insult to someone who has worked so hard and diligently over the years. I am a volunteer getting paid exactly nothing as are you. There are plenty of other task for me to work on. As i said you might as well run your program now. MarnetteD|Talk 21:42, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

@MarnetteD: my initial reply about swamping was before I realised that the monthly cat provided a win-win solution.

Of course I know that you have worked hard over the years which is why I have tried hard to find a win-win solution. But unless you want to explain to me why you won't use the monthly cats (and why it is not a tiny change), then sadly I can only conclude that you are being perverse.

I have asked several times for that explanation, and this will be my last time of asking.

Best wishes --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:07, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps help or a favor. God knows

I'd like to seek your help in making my first FL here. I've already did it on Urdu Wikipedia but please share your ideas about List of students of Mahmud Hasan Deobandi. Might be out of our topic arena, but "advises" would be helpful because you're "Brown Haired Girl". Thanks. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 01:48, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

@TheAafi: thanks for your help with the page move[17] just now.

I am not sure that I am the best person to ask about featured lists, because I have only ever made one such list: List of women cabinet ministers of the Republic of Ireland. But I did learn a bit in that process, so I will see if I can help.

It's now way past my bedtime, and I am too tired to make much sense, so I will take a peek in the morning. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:18, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Henry Dillon, 13th Viscount Dillon

Dear BrownHairedGirl. Thank you for your recent attention to the articles Henry Dillon, 13th Viscount Dillon, Alexander Stewart (1746–1831), and Frederick Stewart, 4th Marquess of Londonderry. Your replacements of Member of Parliament with Member of Parliament (United Kingdom) are clearly improving the articles. However, why did you replace <br> with <br /> at the same occasion? HTML5 prefers <br>, as I understand it. With many thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 11:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, @Johannes Schade.

The reason for closing the <br> tags is because the unclosed tags breaks some syntax highlighters, which makes it harder for editors to maintain the wiki markup.

It's a trivial matter to add this fix to the AWB run, and thereby improve the editing environment for everyone. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:57, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Dear BrownHairedGirl. I have heard that there is an old highlighter that cannot cope with unclosed BR. That must have been developed about the year 2000 when XHTML was in fashion. Nobody uses XHTML any more. I feel replacing <br> with <br /> is antiquated. Very few people still use that old highlighter. WP is HTML5 and not XHTML. Its editor comes with a highlighter that can cope with <br>. There is no guideline or policy that says we should use <br />. Just my opinion. With thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 13:03, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

@Johannes Schade, on what basis do you assert that very few people still use that old highlighter? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:06, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Because I am on Wikipedia since 2017 and I have a watchlist of 140 articles, mostly Irish biographies. Most of them have family trees that I added and these trees contain <br>. I look what edits people do. You are only the 4th person that I meet who does this. The other three were Tom.Reding (joined 2009), Kennethaw88 (joined 2013) and SchreiberBike (joined 2012). I had about the same conversation with them that I have now with you. They did this a long time ago. SchreiberBike said he did it because he used the "User:Remember the dot/Syntax highlighter". Ask them about it. If this old highlighter were still popular, people would change <br> to <br /> all the time and I would see this. I think it is antiquated. With thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 17:05, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Actually, @Johannes Schade other people do also do this ... but since it is best done with a script or AWB, few do it prolifically.

Also, I note that you haven't answered my question of the evidence behind your assertion that very few people still use that old highlighter ... so I will assume that there is no evidence, just an assumption. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:19, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Dear BrownHairedGirl. I have tried but was perhaps not successful. It seems not possible to search through user contributions. I found that SchreiberBike corrected <br> to <br/> on George Hamilton, 3rd Earl of Abercorn on 16 January 2020. This is indeed not so long ago. You are right: there is evidence that the old highlighter is still used.—But this seems to be irrelevant. Indeed I seem to be entirely wrong. Even if Wikipedia states that its HTML is HTML5, H:HTML says "Using <br> without the / breaks syntax highlighting, so should be avoided." I had never seen this before. Strangely, ordinary articles seem to be full of <br>s. I looked for FAs and found that Gog the Mild's recent FA Battle of Inverkeithing indeed uses <br />. I will therefore follow your example (with time) and change all my <br> to <br />. Thanks for having taught me a lesson. Best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 20:04, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 22

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited St John Brodrick, 1st Earl of Midleton, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Cork.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:56, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Actually, bot, to be precise: my AWB edit[18] fixed a malformed link to a dab page. Anyhow, I have disambiguated it.[19]. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:35, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Regional List Succession Box

Hello,

Apologies for the regional list succession box on Maree Todd, I had seen someone else use them but without a predecesssor and successor to denote it was a regional list, but I do acknowledge that having it like that is not especially useful. --ScottishNardualElf (talk) 17:25, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Incident 24 May 2021

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Christopher, Sheridan, OR (talk) 20:30, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Please do not interact with me again, broadly construed

I have no further interest in any opinion of yours that involves me. Your communication with me, about me, whether pinging me or not, will cease, please. This includes any talk page, broadly construed. Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^{Talk to me} 22:28, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

@Timtrent: I have not sought any involvement with you, and our interaction today at ANI followed your decision to intervene in an matter which I had raised, which required me to mention and notify you when I escalated the matter to ANI. Please take responsibility for your decision, and do not claim that I dragged you into it, as you did here[20]

I will in future bear your request in mind. However, I cannot guarantee to refrain from replying to you in discussion as appropriate, and I will notify you if required by policies and guidelines or if a tool such as WP:Twinkle generates an automatic notification. I will try to avoid pinging you, but since I routinely ping editors to whom I reply, I cannot guarantee to avoid that entirely. I have pinged you in this reply solely to ensure that you are aware that I am unable to fully accept your request.

Best wishes --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:44, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Fair enough Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^{Talk to me} 22:47, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

I disagree with your first paragraph.The "Fair Enough" comment refers only to the paragraph starting "I will in future". That does not mean I will discuss the first paragraph with you at all. Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^{Talk to me} 22:48, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Sigh. If you want to disengage, just do so. But enough of the demands on me, and enough of coming back to argue the toss. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:16, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

For the record, some links, so that they end up in my archive:

1. The ANI thread: WP:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:DeNoel's_sig.
2. Permalink to the ANI thread: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=1024955272#User:DeNoel's_sig
3. The discussion which kicked this off User talk:DeNoel#Your_sig,_again (permalink)
4. The post by Timtrent in which they chose to improve themself in this matter: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DeNoel&diff=1024930071&oldid=1024930047
5. The bogus claim by Timtrent that they had been "dragged in" by me: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1024945135

Note that this is for my records. It is not an invitation to Timtrent to post here again. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

Please do not interact with me again

BHG, I have had quite enough.

Please do not interact with me again. No pings, no replies, no messages, no answers, nothing, on any part of Wikipedia including talk pages, project pages, and the like.

Regards, doktorb _words^deeds 04:04, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

That's sad and puzzling, but if it's what you want. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:24, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

PS I accept the spirit of your request, but I cannot guarantee to follow it entirely. I won't post on your talk, but I will not refrain from joining a public discussion because you are part of it, and I will make my own judgements about whether to reply to anything you post on talk pages, project pages etc. You are free to chose not to respond to me, but not to unilaterally impose an interaction ban. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:50, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

BrownHairedGirl, this is already the second person in two days that doesn't want to interact with you anymore, which tells me two things: one, that people are more sensitive about their signature than one would expect, and two, that you may not have picked up on this sensitivity enough. I would like to ask you to go easy a bit in the discussions. Sincerely, Apaugasma (talk|☉) 05:00, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

@Apaugasma: thanks for your thoughts. I have been looking at this unfold, and reflecting on it. I find it both surprising and saddening, and have had to work on not letting it rekindle the disillusionment with Wikipedia which I have felt on several occasions over the years.

Your post coincided with a rethink I had , which triggered strong agreement with Jorm that we need to approach this from the other end.[21]

I hope this will be generate more light and less heat. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:21, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Please interact with me

Since everyone seems to be communicating their preferences regarding your interactions with them, I thought I'd join the fun. I haven't interacted with you much, but I'd welcome more interaction. The couple times I've run into you, you've always been on the right side of the argument, in my view. Some people just get angry when they're arguing against someone who is right most of the time. Cheers. —⁠ScottyWong⁠— 06:21, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

2nded ---Sluzzelin talk 07:07, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, @Scottywong and Sluzzelin: both for your support and for expressing it in a way that made me grin. We need to keep communicating with people we disagree with, and to distinguish clearly between disagreement and hostility/rudeness. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:18, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedia double soft redirects

Hey, BHG,

You were the last editor to this category page and it popped up on the nightly Empty Category List. It says it's a maintenance category but it doesn't have an Empty Category tag on it so I'm not sure if it is really utilized much. As far as I know, Wikipedia bots correct any double redirects that exist. So, do you think it should be tagged as a perennially empty category or tag it CSD C1? Thanks in advance for offering your opinion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:42, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Liz

My only edit[22] to Category:Wikipedia double soft redirects was as part of a huge AWB run. My only interest it was the TOC, so I never considered any other aspect of it.

So I have never given that page any other thoughts. However, I see that it is populated by {{Double soft redirect}}, which was kept at WP:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 March 17#Template:Double_soft_redirect.

I haven't the headspace right now to evaluate that TFD decision, but I note that @Pppery endorsed the keep, and in my long experience that's a very good sign that it was the right decision. (I do remember one discussion where I reckoned that Pppery had misjudged a technical matter, but a/ that's one of hundreds of encounters, and b/ Pppery was open to other analysis and changed his view. I like that. So when I scan TFD, I watch for Pppery's assessments.).

Anyway, regardless of any view I might take of that, there is recent consensus to keep the template that populates the category ... so I think that justifies keeping the category and tagging it as {{Possibly empty category}}.

Hope that helps! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:23, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Neither of the above proposals is the correct action. Instead, the correct action was reverting the recent vandalism to Template:Double soft redirect (which I've now done), making the category no longer empty. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:29, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

June 2021 at Women in Red

Women in Red | June 2021, Volume 7, Issue 6, Numbers 184, 188, 196, 199, 200, 201 Online events: New: Wiki Loves Pride | June Junes | Jewellers & Watchmakers Contest (Apr/May/Jun): Women in Europe contest Year-long campaign: Women's rights Continuing: #1day1woman Other ways to participate: Join the conversations on our talkpage | Help us plan future events Become a member | Opt-out of notifications Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Rosiestep (talk) 18:49, 28 May 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

References in headings

Why are you moving references back into headings? Per the MOS references do not belong in headings. I was moving them out of the heading and to the below the tables for that section. RJFJR (talk) 22:15, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Ah!!! So RJFJR can actually post on talk pages. Complete silence from you when I post on your talk, even after I posted a reminders. But when I revert an edit or two of yours, it#'s kaboom! -- and and you're talking in a flash.

Thew best place for the refs is in the title bar of the election boxes. AFAIK, no guideline deprecates that.

You moved them into the middle of nowhere, leaving their relevance unclear. That was the worst possible place. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:32, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Interesting solution. My first reaction was to worry how the reference would interact with the table syntax but I suppose that would work. For cases when there is one table in the section it would work well. If there are multiple tables in the section it would need to be added to each table (I'm not sure I like that as much). Putting it at the bottom of the section I was indicating the reference applied to the entire contents of the section. The alternative was putting it at the top which I found odd looking and sort of 'floating'.

I responded when I did because I was writing a talk page message when the little red light for notification came on. Before that I was busy rushing to fix mistakes I had made. I was not intending to ignore you. RJFJR (talk) 22:49, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

• @RJFJR, one missed message might be credible, but since your edit pattern showed that you clearly had seen my first msg, the rest is utter nonsense. It took you one hour 16 minutes to reply to my first msg to you, despite a reminder msg from me after 16 minutes. So I am sorry to be blunt, but all your excuses come across as utter nonsense. If you want to apologise for not communicating, don't wreck the apology by wrapping it in manure. Please stop making my view of you worse than you have already made it this evening.

I fixed 2019 Fenland District Council election: no refs in headings, having moved them to the election boxes. (See current version). Some of the refs were already in the election boxes, following text, so they were not "floating". The moved refs are beside the ones which were there already.

The "floating" refs in any of this were those which you created in this edit[23], leaving the refs attached to no text. Since you already had examples on that page of the refs being inside an election box, I am amazed that you thought it helpful to put the refs in the middle of nowhere ... and puzzled tat you say you don't like 'floating' ref when you created about a dozen 'floating' refs.

And if a ref is needed in more than one location, just give it a name and cite again by name, as explained in WP:NAMEDREFS. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:18, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Category:Irish theologians has been nominated for merging

Category:Irish theologians has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 09:54, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Cardiff bare URLs

Hi. I have (hopefully) cleaned up the bare URL's on the article 2017 Cardiff Council election. Any chance you can tale a quick look and let me know if i have got it right? Thanks Benawu2 (talk) 08:31, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Hey, @Benawu2, that looks like great work. You have evidently taken time to examine each link, and formatted it in a meaningful way. Complete contrast to the reckless script jockey above. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:53, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Bradford West

Hey, it was actually me that removed the comapct table. It was a year ago, but I forgot. I left edit comments when I did it, but maybe I wasn't clear enough? All the constituency pages should have the same format, so I think you should reverse your reversal of my reversal to keep consistency. Happy to discuss though. --Gharbhain (talk) 11:43, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Gharbhain, yes all the other constituency pages should use the {{Compact election box}}, which is much easier to read. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:48, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Is that not against the current style guides for the constituency pages? That's why I updated Bradford West to have seperate tables. Doesn't make sense to keep Bradford West as compact and not have any effort going to change any other consituency page. I disagree compact tables are easier to read though, I find the sperate tables much easier to read. --Gharbhain (talk) 11:51, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Thoughts? Happy for it to be a compact table if that's the consensus but it seems to be that the style guide indicates the smaller table? Maybe the style page is needing an update? --Gharbhain (talk) 12:20, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Gharbhain, the compact box was agreed at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_UK_Parliament_constituencies/Archive_7#Compact_election_box. See linked and later discussions. The style guide contradicts that consensus.

It makes no sense to me to degrade the articles which use the compact box, by backdating them (not updating!) to an older layout which wastes lot of vertical space.

Also, please note that Bradford West is not the only page to use {{Compact election box}}. See transclusions. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:38, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl Ah, my apologies! I was working from the style guide, which I assumed would have been up-to-date with the consensus. No worries, I can even convert a few pages to use {{Compact election box}}. Also, sorry, I meant the only UK constituency page using the {{Compact election box}}, but I can see that Spen Valley also has it which I missed. --Gharbhain (talk) 12:53, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Leszek Borysiewicz article

Hey BrownHairedGirl, I just saw that you placed a "bare url" template on the Leszek Borysiewicz article, suggesting there should be full citations. As I'm looking at the article, only 2 out 20 sources seem bare URLs. The other ones are citations. Rather than simply removing, I wanted to ask you on your thoughts first. Thank you.2A02:1205:34E0:C0A0:C18:9DDB:194B:AABF (talk) 18:07, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@2A02:1205:34E0:C0A0:C18:9DDB:194B:AABF: I apply the {{Cleanup bare URLs}} tag when there is one or more bare URLs, because they need to be fixed.

Please remove the tag if all bare URLs have been fixed. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:02, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Bare URLs tagging comment

To Beowrnhairedgirl You've added a header link re: bare urls! to John Francon Williams wiki page, Instead of adding the link, I'm unsure why you didn't just correct the links yourself? I thought the whole idea of Wikipedia was for people to assist one another with building pages of historical knowledge? By adding a link, off which I personally am not familiar with - I probably speak for many subscribers here - the message comes across in quite a threatening manner. Subscribers can willingly add knowledge and links to determine the knowledge is correct, but all subscribers are not technical wizards. If you are a wizard, perhaps it might be helpful to assist by using that knowledge. I'm sorry to sound a little perturbed, but I've noticed a lot of people delete, add headings, jumble paragraphs up, on wiki pages for no apparent reason, that becomes a little tiresome after a while. Only yesterday I noticed a subscriber deleted a 'Born in' category from a wiki page for no apparent reason, when the person the page is about was clearly 'born in' that region. Please help by correcting whatever the 'bare urls are ... or at least show how a subscriber does this procedure. thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sevenseaocean (talk • contribs) 21:12, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Sevenseaocean

Adding a cleanup tag alerts other editors that there is a problem to be fixed, if they wish to do so. It achieves that by a) leaving a visible notice on the article, and b) categorising the article in cleanup categories. If someone sees the tag and doesn't fix the problem, they can move on and do something else with their time.

I am surprised that you find that threatening. Why would anyone feel threatened to find that an article has a note that says some issues need fixing? Very odd.

Wikipedia is indeed for people to assist one another with building pages of historical knowledge. Helping them to identify issues that need fixing is part of that collaboration.

The reason i don;t fix them all myself I that I don't have unlimited time. I find that it typically takes a few minutes to do a decent job of formatting a reference, whereas a cleanup tag can be added in seconds. So when I spot this or other problem, I often just add a tag and move on.

I this case I used AWB to make some big list of articles with bare URLs, and then tag them. I can add tags this way at a rate of about 15 articles per minute, so that's lots articles flagged up for a bit of attention.

Hope this help. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:45, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

bare urls

The bare urls template currently puts them in Category:Articles needing cleanup. This makes it impossible to find the articles that are put into cleanup for other reasons. Do you think it would be worth proposing that the categories be changed? (Perhaps to a sub category of cleanup?)

I take an interest in articles needing cleanup, but I'm not as interested in bare-urls other than getting in my way when looking for cleanup. I never bothered to proposing a change to the categorizing previously, but there are nearly 2000 articles added this month and since yester day it was less than 300 probably over 1500 are for bare urls.

Also, for those article titles "<year> <place> by-election" that have http://www.leighrayment.com/commons.htm as the only reference. Do you think they should be tagged as needing additional references?

Sorry about not responding faster to your previous message. RJFJR (talk) 22:40, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

RJFJR, you messed me around for an hour by your non-communication with me over your reckless misuse of Refill. My repeated requests were ignored.

Then after your silence when I needed you, I reverted your changes to two pages ... and IMMEDIATELY, you jumped up and down like a jack-in-a box, with a flurry of talk page posts.

Ordinarily, I would be very happy to consider the issues you raise. But right now, after 90 minutes of dealing with your bizarre antics, I feel sick and furious of the sight of your name, and I want nothing more than for you to vanish forever.

That feeling may change in the morning, so I will look again at this tomorrow. But you have far more than your share of my time tonight, and I am fit to scream. So for tonight, just get lost before I started throwing witches' curses at you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:54, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Is that approach really necessary? ^{!ɘM γɿɘυϘ}⅃ϘƧ 07:06, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@SQL: the editor above wasted more than an hour of my time last night, by using a script utterly recklessly and then failing to communicate as they piled more problems on top of the mess created ... and then bombarding me with pointless pings to their talk page. That drama was indeed completely unnecessary, and I was completely exasperated by it, which is why I left it overnight to get over my exasperation. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:59, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Monthly cleanup categories

@RJFJR, back to the issues you raised above. I will reply separately to them, to facilitate threaded discussion.

First, please note that your decision not to link the categories and templates you were referring to makes replying a bit more onerous. Please use links, as requested in the big editnotice shown above when you edit this page.

You write bare urls template currently puts them in Category:Articles needing cleanup. This makes it impossible to find the articles that are put into cleanup for other reasons. Do you think it would be worth proposing that the categories be changed? (Perhaps to a sub category of cleanup?)

{{Cleanup bare URLs}} does not put anything in Category:Articles needing cleanup; it puts them in [[:Category:Articles needing cleanup from <month year>]]. See e.g. Francis Bryan, in Category:Articles needing cleanup from May 2021 ... which has a header message This category combines all articles needing cleanup from May 2021 (2021-05) to enable us to work through the backlog more systematically. So it's a catch-all category, which combines all the articles given any cleanup tag in that month.

Those who want to work on a specific issue can go to Category:Clean-up categories from May 2021, which has a subcat for each specific issue. So why remove any one cleanup tag from this part of dual system? I don't get why you would want to do that. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:26, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out Category:Clean-up categories from May 2021. I'll look through it further. RJFJR (talk) 17:23, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

By-election articles

@RJFJR: you wrote for those article titles "<year> <place> by-election" that have http://www.leighrayment.com/commons.htm as the only reference. Do you think they should be tagged as needing additional references?

I assume that refers to articles such 1874 Wigtown Burghs by-election, which you edited yesterday, then reverted.[24]

(Note that after our encounter yesterday, I did another AWB run to fix all the by-election articles with bare URL links to Rayment, using {{Rayment-hc}} instead of http://www.leighrayment.com/commons.htm. See these 502 edits).

Basically, my view is that those are mostly a set of abysmal sub-stubs whose failings are so deep that they could be tagged with a multitude of tags. There are several hundred such sub-stubs on Westminster by-elections, mostly created in a flurry by a small set of editors. They are basically pointless, because they simply restate the facts contained in lists: constituency name, name and party of outgoing MP and new MP.

Yes, a decent article can be written on nearly any by-election. (see e.g. my own efforts at inter alia 1869 Blackburn by-election, 1943 St Albans by-election, and 1919 St Albans by-election, plus many examples of fine work done by others). But these sub-stubs don't even try to add any value beyond the lists, and seem to be inadequately verified even for the few facts they assert.

As far as I can see, the cited references are often bogus in that in most cases it seems to me to improbable that the editors who created these page actually consulted the cited sources, which are nearly always one or both of FWS Craig's election results and/or Rayment. Here's why:

1. http://www.leighrayment.com/commons.htm is on a website which lapsed, and is now a cybersquatter site. It is now archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20150215181722/http://www.leighrayment.com/commons.htm, and if you look at that age you can see that it is just an index. If the site has actually been used to verify the facts stated, then the editor would have had to visit the appropriate subpage in each, and could just as easily have pasted in the name of the subpage, e.g. http://www.leighrayment.com/commons/Wcommons4.htm for 1874 Wigtown Burghs by-election. The fact they didn't name the subpage looks to me like no checking.
2. The refs to Craig are dodgy. In most cases, they don't cite a page number, which makes them suspect as above. But additionally, Craig's book are long out of print and very rare (my copies of the full set cost about £25£250 in total, 15 years ago. So for most editor they ae available only in libraries.

So I am fairly sure that these are kinda bogus refs: a mention of sources which would probably confirm roughly the facts asserted, but which are very unlikely to have actually been consulted. To my mind, that's no way to use sources ... but last time I tried to challenge an editor who was misusing citations in that way (about a decade ago), there was a shitstorm. I haven't the stomach for doing that again.

However, I don't think that a tag forest is needed for these sub-stubs. I would like something stronger than plain "stub", but until the community will accept a {{abysmally-constructed-sub-stub-which-serves-no-purpose}}, I think that a stub tag is sufficient.

Anyway, I look fwd to hearing your thoughts in response. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:47, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your very clear statement of the problem. They are stubby, but if marked as stub would that be effective in getting someone to improve them? They are under-referenced, but would tagging them cause them to be improved? I'm not sure what to do about it.

I got curious about your comment about having the books by Craig. On Amazon there is a reprint in 2000, available as kindle for US$44.95 or paper for more, of the statistics for 1832-1999 that includes sample pages but they are just tables of results. It's amazing what is now in kindle. RJFJR (talk) 18:16, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

I have used references to Craig, including page numbers. I bought a few of his books for that purpose.

Benawu2 (talk) 22:39, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Category:Bougainvillean priests has been nominated for merging to Category:Papua New Guinean priests

Category:Bougainvillean priests has been nominated for merging to Category:Papua New Guinean priests. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Place Clichy (talk) 09:02, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Regarding Article verification

Can you help me in getting this Draft Published. The subject is a professional football coach from india. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Muzamil_Mahmood Dar zubair 07:50, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

@Dar zubair: sorry, but the answer has to be no. I have zero interest in football. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:42, 1 June 2021 (UTC)