User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång/Archive 9

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Edits to Baroness Joanna Shields page

My name is Laura and I work for Joanna Shields, Baroness Shields, a baron, businessperson, and former British politician. The page about her was recently tagged for COI and advert issues due to some poor edits made years ago. I posted here regarding my desire to address the substance of the tags with a re-write or heavy trims, to remove the promotional content. I was hoping you might be willing to chime in on the proposed trims and/or the suggestion for a rewrite. Let me know. Best regards.~~~~ LauTad89 (talk) 14:50, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

@LauTad89 I will not involve myself atm, but thanks for making an effort to follow WP:COI. It's hard to get anything done as a COI-editor, but hopefully you'll have some luck, I see you're asking in several places. Consider also Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Business. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:13, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång many thanks for the advice (which I will follow) and kind response! LauTad89 (talk) 16:05, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Judith Newman quote

Ha! Your Judith Newman quote is about me. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:00, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

@Ssilvers Loved that article by her. This [1] is about an article I started. I didn't write the messy plot, but I was "Gaiman noticed an article I started and he had to see that??!!" Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:36, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Haha! -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from Belisarius465 (23:59, 10 October 2023)

Visiting your excellent page on Colyton Grammar School, where I was a former pupil way back when, I was struck by something which might be regarded as a serious omission; it did not encourage reader participation! For example, there was no opportunity to remember anecdotes from one's school days- why not? Anecdotes of the past are just as significant as actual primary facts- they make history live! Just a thought! --Belisarius465 (talk) 23:59, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

@Belisarius465 Welcome to Wikipedia! A Wikipedia-article on any subject is supposed to be a summary of published reliable sources (WP:RS). The kind of content you think of mostly fall outside Wikipedia's scope. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:01, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from Loganschuchard (00:43, 11 October 2023)

how do I upload an image without getting copyrighted --Loganschuchard (talk) 00:43, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

@Loganschuchard Often you can't. The default assumption is that any random picture you find online is under copyright and can't be used on Wikipedia. More details at Wikipedia:Image use policy. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:06, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Note also that WP has an article about Rachel Eliza Griffiths. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:28, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Noting

I just noticed that user:Oldsilenus removed stuff from this talkpage on 29 september, hopefully a mistake:[2] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:16, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

The removed text involved some of our discussion and this unrelated thread:

Question from Okuhle2008 on Geluksburg (09:17, 25 September 2023)

Latest comment: 18 days ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Hello How do I add a photo on Wikipedia or should I create my own page --Okuhle2008 (talk) 09:17, 25 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Okuhle2008 Hello and welcome! This is (or can be) a very complex area. Do you want to add a picture to the Geluksburg article? If you're thinking of a photo you found online somewhere, then the answer is almost certainly no, copyright rules are a pain in the ass. But if you're thinking about a photo you have taken yourself with your own camera you probably can. Let me know which it is. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:32, 25 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

Then again, your "case" may be worse than I thought. @A1Cafel, care to comment on the South Africa situation? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:08, 25 September 2023 (UTC) Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:31, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from OldBoyGeoff (13:02, 30 October 2023)

Hello, I don't wish to edit or correct anything but simply to add my comments to those of others in Talk on a particular subject. --OldBoyGeoff (talk) 13:02, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

@OldBoyGeoff, welcome to Wikipedia! Nothing prevents you from doing so (not counting a few WP:PROTECTed pages), but note that article talkpages are meant to discuss improvements to the article, not general discussions of the subject. Help:Talk pages may be of help. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:59, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Your edit on Zoe McLellan.

You said "A felony warrant for Kidnapping was issued for Zoe on May 14, 2021." It does not speak of 2023, and in the BLP-context, we're not allowed to make that conclusion". Actually we can make that conclusion. In the United States arrest warrants do not expire, They stay active until

• the suspect is arrested,
• the judge recalls the warrant, or
• the suspect dies

Jaydoggmarco (talk) 09:13, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Also it lists her age as 48 which means the warrant is still active. Jaydoggmarco (talk) 09:16, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Commented on article talk and WP:BLPN. 2 forums are enough. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:17, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Danexit

"Frankfurt am Main" is the information for Danmark on how to start the referendum. Wname1 (talk) 10:48, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

I am familiar with the Danish withdrawal from the European Union WP-article, but I have no idea what you are talking about. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:52, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

As with Brexit, GB knew after some time with this correct information (it was Zürich) that they could hold a referendum, the same to Danexit ("Frankfurt am Main"). Wname1 (talk) 12:31, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

I'll assume that if this is relevant to some article on en-WP, you will discuss it on that talkpage. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:34, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

True. Wname1 (talk) 12:43, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

I sent this to Mr. Morten Messerschmidt: "Wouldn't it be better if the Dansk Folkeparti returned to the European conservative and reformist group? In the 2014 European Parliament elections in Denmark, Dansk Folkeparti achieved 27%." Mr. Morten Messerschmidt, he responded with that: "In my view the best would be, if ID and ECR found a more formal way of cooperation. Sincerely Morten Messerschmidt." Wname1 (talk) 13:02, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

I have no interest in discussing this on my talkpage. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:24, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

That's right, the page Danish withdrawal from the European Union is the right one. Wname1 (talk) 17:08, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Question from Houseofpancake (08:55, 11 November 2023)

hi --Houseofpancake (talk) 08:55, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:58, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Question from Rupandehi (20:22, 26 November 2023)

Could you help me publish a page 'Surendra Prasad Chaudhary'? It was created a few hours ago by me but requires some changes in the citation. The information available is quite old and is in PDF format and is not sufficient. I have added the link to the PDFs in the reference section. --Rupandehi (talk) 20:22, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

@Rupandehi One thing you should do is to remove the full text of the speeches. It's probably fine to mention in a section that they exist, with a cite (or put them in a "External links" section), but a WP-article about a person is supposed to be a summary of independent WP:RS about that person.

See also the ref you put here:[3]. Move it to it's proper place in the article.

The infobox is supposed to be a summary of simple facts from the article text, you need to add references for date of birth, family and education. If you can't ref it, remove it (goes for everything in the article). I may take a further look at the sources tomorrow.

That said, this looks like an article WP should have. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:20, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Ping to @Theroadislong if you want to give any further advice. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:23, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Also, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Nepal may be a good place to ask for input. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:30, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

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Editor experience invitation

Hi Gråbergs Gråa Sång :) I'm looking for people to interview here. Feel free to pass if you're not interested. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 09:56, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Question from 989abcd (19:53, 7 December 2023)

Hello --989abcd (talk) 19:53, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:55, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Question from 989abcd (20:11, 7 December 2023)

Why can't I translate pages? --989abcd (talk) 20:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean. WP:TRANSLATE and/or WP:TRANSLATEUS may be of help to you. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Sorry about that revert

Hey. Sorry for that revert on Talk:Cyber Anakin. For some reason I'd read that {{press}} as a {{refideas}} tag, thinking you were suggesting using that source in the article. I've self-reverted that now. Sorry again. Sideswipe9th (talk) 16:25, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@Sideswipe9th No problem! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:30, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@Sideswipe9th, Talk:Race_and_intelligence#Removal_of_Quillette_quote may interest you. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:16, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Concerning starting a discussion about the Quillette article

I'd rather not. There's been a long history of attempts by POV-pushers who, under the guise of discussing sources, try to relitigate the consensus in two different RfCs that the belief in genetic superiority of one race over another is a fringe viewpoint that is rejected by scientific consensus. Starting a discussion that grows out of a biased and factually incorrect article in Quillette would be an invitation to them to start again, causing everyone a pointless time sink, since we've already been through that several times, especially in 2020-2022.

Thanks again for proposing a good compromise on your edit there. NightHeron (talk) 09:54, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@NightHeron Thanks for commenting, and I understand. I have not spent any time and effort on that article, but I know the "Not this again" feeling from other WP-areas.

Fwiw, I edit pages like Wikipedia:Press coverage 2023 a lot, and sometimes the media I find fits on article talk-pages (or Arbcom talk-pages, or WP-project talk-pages, or...), so I add it there too. Since this is WP, sometimes people disagree with me (!), but I think we handled it WP-well in this case. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:13, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

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==Merry Christmas!

~~~ Merry Christmas! ~~~
Joyeux Noël! ~ Buon Natale! ~ Vrolijk Kerstfeest! ~ Frohe Weihnachten!
¡Feliz Navidad! ~ Feliz Natal! ~ Καλά Χριστούγεννα! ~ Hyvää Joulua!
God Jul! ~ Glædelig Jul! ~ Linksmų Kalėdų! ~ Priecīgus Ziemassvētkus!
Häid Jõule! ~ Wesołych Świąt! ~ Boldog Karácsonyt! ~ Veselé Vánoce!
Veselé Vianoce! ~ Crăciun Fericit! ~ Sretan Božić! ~ С Рождеством!
শুভ বড়দিন! ~ 圣诞节快乐！~ メリークリスマス！~ 메리 크리스마스!
สุขสันต์วันคริสต์มาส! ~ Selamat Hari Natal! ~ Giáng sinh an lành!
Весела Коледа! ~ Meri Kirihimete!

Hello, Gråbergs Gråa Sång! Thank you for your work to maintain and improve Wikipedia! Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Jenhawk777 (talk) 15:49, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove and leave other users this message by adding {{subst:Multi-language Season's Greetings}}

==

Jenhawk777 (talk) 15:49, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

God Jul! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:55, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

God Jul!

Happy Yuletide!

Merry Yuletide to you! (And a happy new year!)

Hoppas du har en bra Julafton! ★Trekker (talk) 12:50, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Detsamma till dig, @StarTrekker! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:50, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Tomorrow's the big day!

Much joy and happiness - make the most of it! 🎄🎁🎅🏻🧑🏻‍🎄 Atsme 💬 📧 17:03, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

@Atsme Where I am, the big day has about 5 min remaining, but God Jul anyway! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:55, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

n.d.

Hello dearhreart, I am off out of town for a few days, but when I come back I intend to finish the clean-up of History of Christianity. It is now below 12,000 words! I am checking to be sure all references have correct page numbers and I have noticed that some that don't have n.d. in the page number place. I can't find a reference to that, what it means and whether it's legit to use it or what. Do you oh wise one have any idea what the heck that is? Jenhawk777 (talk) 16:58, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jenhawk777 Interesting, I don't remember seeing that before. Could it be intended for no data as in no year of publication in this case? I looked at 3 examples and those where just ordinary webpages, so it makes an amount of sense.

I can't see anything about it at Help:Shortened footnotes or Help:References and page numbers. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:28, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the work you did there. I hope that will be sufficient for those websites since there is no such thing as a page number for those. Jenhawk777 (talk) 15:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Gråbergs Gråa Sång!

Happy New Year!

Gråbergs Gråa Sång,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
Abishe (talk) 14:05, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Abishe (talk) 14:05, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

January 2024

Could you please explain what you exactly mean by removing the Banke's photograph?

You provided an unrelated website link while both the photos are completely different. Is it your misunderstanding or is there something else?

Please clarify, otherwise I'll restore the photo. Don't report it.

Thanks. LampVimmW (talk) 04:54, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

@LampVimmW, stop telling people not to "report" things, that is up to each editor (and it makes people think "So you've been blocked before, huh?"). I commented on this at the article talkpage, take it there. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:08, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Ok. I'll not say that again to you. Please clarify why did you remove the picture. There were extra wordings, I can understand. But what's wrong with photograph?

You provided an unrelated website link while both the photos are completely different.

I'm not blaming you but, giving a better reason may help. LampVimmW (talk) 04:27, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Again, article talkpage. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Also, consider Help:Archiving (plain and simple) instead of just blanking your talkpage. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:04, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Question from Sujandahal76 (06:51, 1 January 2024)

Hi @Gråbergs,

Hope you are doing well. I am writing a article related to Classic Tech - one of the ISP here in Nepal. However I am not sure what triggered or caused issue for the article to be denied. If you could help me on this, I would be very grateful since this is my first article. --Sujandahal76 (talk) 06:51, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

@Sujandahal76, Sorry for the late answer. I looked at your sources for WP:GNG-good ones. Sources like [4][5] may be in that catgory, but it's hard for me say how WP:RS they are. I don't know a Nepalese blog from a Nepalese Washington Post. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:59, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Maybe you can get some helpful input at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Nepal/Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Asia. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:11, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Gråbergs Gråa Sång Thank you for the direction. I'll definitely check the talk. And for the references, they are all from top medias in Nepal, not sure how to provide the confirmation. Sujandahal76 (talk) 09:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Kombucha

I don't think anyone else understands what point TC is trying to make with their aggressive WP:NOTFORUM stuff, either, but might I suggest disengaging instead of responding? It doesn't seem like anything comes of trying to discuss with them other than huge walls of hostile incoherence. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 02:32, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

P.S. I tried to remove TC’s personal attack on you in their last comment; of course they restored it. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 12:32, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed. We'll see what happens. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:46, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Question from A11StarSnipr (05:39, 7 January 2024)

Hello Mentor how do I make a Wikipedia page --A11StarSnipr (talk) 05:39, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

@A11StarSnipr, hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! First you need to make sure you have the necessary sources, see WP:BACKWARD. If you don't have the required sources, any article you try to start will not be accepted.

You need to know enough about how to edit WP, WP:TUTORIAL can help with that. It is essential that you learn how to add references correctly, I can't stress this enough.

If you conclude "Yeah, I have those sources, no problem!", move on to Help:Your first article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:08, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Long plots

Hello GGS, Re: Neri Oxman sections, yes there is plenty of media attention!, much of it meta [about the furore, pushback, implication for plagiarism allegations becoming a normalized line of personal attack on academics]. But I don't know that this should translate to lengthy narrative or a top section. Salacious details don't have to be impactful these days to be covered in dozens of outlets, all reporting on one another's coverage. The challenge is noting that w/o amplifying that circular process.

We started to have a similar discussion on the Claudine Gay article: once the word 'plagiarism' gets thrown about more lightly, we might distinguish confirmed plagiarism that affect people's work, usually alleged and evaluated by colleagues or members of the same field, from allegations levied as a personal attack, by people unrelated to the work, evaluated by the public. An application of CRITS here could be sections on 'Reception of published work', with discussion of notability, novelty, citation sloppiness, plagiarism, sharing or not sharing credit for discoveries, awards, &c. In Gay's case including her awards for her scholarship alongside recent allegations (that it was derivative, a light publication record, contained plagiarism), in Oxman's quotes from citing scholarship alongside recent allegations. – SJ + 16:22, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

On Oxman, I'm getting the impression that she is more like collateral damage in her husbands crusade on whatever. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:08, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

History of Christianity

You recently removed an image saying there was no paragraph about Hindus, but Dalits are the lowest caste of Hindus, and there is a paragraph on Dalit converts. Jenhawk777 (talk) 23:15, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jenhawk777 Yeah, but the caption said "Hindu Christians" (???) and [6] says "Hindu brahmin and his wife", that's of topic and just decoration. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:24, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Actually it says brahman, but they probably mean brahmin. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:28, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps something from Christianity in India might fit? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:33, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't know what you are referring to as saying "Brahmin and his wife". The image file just says "The gospel in South India - or the religious life, experience, and character of the Hindu Christians (1880)". The text in the article refers to Dalits who are lower class Hindus. I am not sure I am following why this is a problem that needed removing. But if you did, then okay, but how about if you find an image you do approve of and replace it? Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:31, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jenhawk777 Caption at [7], page 42. The book may be on topic, but this particular pic is not. My understanding is that a brahmin/brahman (or Hindu) is per definition not a Christian. Per the article you linked, "Dalits predominantly follow Hinduism, with significant populations of the adherents of Buddhism, Sikhism, Christianity, and Islam." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:39, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Okay. The image was in the article when I started work on it, and I can see your point. I have left it out because I trust your judgment. A brahmin is a social class, and while Indians do generally follow Hinduism, some convert. They would still be brahmins or Dalits as the case may be. Converting would not change their social class as far as most other Indians were concerned anyway. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:31, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Did you see it got GA? YAY! This has been a long time coming. I want to follow through and submit it for FA, but I am sure I need to re-review it first - I just don't know exactly how or what to look for that might be wanting. Any suggestions? Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:32, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Congrats! I glanced at the discussion now and then, and it was a joy to see you 2 getting along, mostly. No suggestions atm, my guess is you'll have the long article/yes, but it's a BIG TOPIC!! discussion again. Apparently Wikipedia:Peer review exists, don't know if you ever tried it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:24, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

LOL! I was a bit of a pain in the ass here and there, but they were unfailingly patient and kind. They did a really, really good job. I was very impressed. My guess is I will repeatedly have that discussion! I agree! But what can I do? I have cut and cut and even the reviewer kept pointing out topics that weren't mentioned. In the end, I declined to add them, and they agreed, but yeah, it will definitely come up again. Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:26, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

WikiTree

Hi, just in case you missed it: I replied to Talk:WikiTree#Gamification. Flominator (talk) 05:12, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

It was a reasonable question, I don't remember seeing it. Replied. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:27, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Rachel Elnaugh Page Update

Hi

You have recently edited the page for Rachel Elnaugh and I was hoping as a mote experienced person you would be better suited than me to update the text around Cressbrook dale in the page. The controversy with the dale seems to have been settled by the national park authority (https://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/learning-about/news/current-news/peak-district-national-park-authority-confirms-removal-of-unauthorised-works-at-cressbrook-dale). The page is locked for editing and I don't really want to step into what looks like an online fight with Rachel and her followers, just want the most up to date info.

Thanks

Ruddiga93 Ruddiga93 (talk) 20:20, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Afaict, the source is good, but it doesn't mention Elnaugh or the Phoenix group, so using it in that article seems a bit WP:SYNTH. What text were you thinking of adding? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:59, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Exactly what has been put. Just the fact that action was taken due to lack of planning etc Ruddiga93 (talk) 19:17, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Larries

Hello! About a year and a half ago I edited quite a lot of the Larries page but then abandoned it along with my last account H-influenzae to start fresh on this one. However, I noticed it's been getting linked places, including recently a publication I read frequently called them, and I feel sad that people are getting linked out to something that I feel remains incomplete. Given that I have proven myself as an non-contentious editor on this new account, would you be alright if I completed the page at some point using the sources I had left on the talk page? I didn't want to just go edit it, because I want to show that I respect Wikipedia's rules, both formal and informal. Hope you're well ~~~ Computer-ergonomics (he/him; talk; please ping me in replies ) 13:13, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Computer-ergonomics, hope you are well! WP:BOLD is the law of the land, but "completed the page" is IMO unlikely goal in our environment. But you can maybe get close. Note that WP:CTOP applies. I'd advice doing it a bit at a time. Do perhaps one section, wait a few days, repeat. This lowers the risk of someone thinking a mass revert is needed. And do the WP:LEAD last. If you haven't seen Swifties, you may find it interesting. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

I'd also advice you to stick to in-depth (about Larries), high quality sources. There are plenty of WP-good sources, and WP:BLP applies in parts, so skip borderline stuff. WP:RSP can be of some help. Take this one from your list for example [8], it mentions our topic only in passing, weed out stuff like that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:44, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Ah, excellent! Yes, I put in the source on Rainbow Direction because it's fairly well-known (and covered elsewhere, notably in the Tiffany book) that the group was created by Larries (though, notably, current rainbow projects in various fandoms including for the band members have since shed Rainbow Direction's conspiratorial origin). You can read more about that here if you're curious. But I can certainly look through some things and prune.

Doing things a bit at a time I think would be good - I've had a break from Wikipedia for a little while to focus on other research projects so I have a lot of catching up to do here!

By the way, happy belated New Year! Computer-ergonomics (he/him; talk; please ping me in replies ) 14:53, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Backatya! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:20, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Just wondering if you read the FTN link

It's not a good situation. Doug Weller talk 14:56, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

I've seen it. Hopefully we'll manage to follow BLP etc in the articles even so. Pain in the ass as it may be. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:00, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

New page creation

Hello

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång I just created a page for a musician called Starry I've got some tags on it and I don't know if you can enlighten me on how to improve on the page. I'll look forward to hearing from you sir. Princeisrael2728 (talk) 14:30, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Replied at Talk:Starry (musician). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Question from MeSauce (02:34, 28 January 2024)

Hello! I joined Wikipedia for one purpose: To see if it's possible to create my own Wikipedia Article on my Public Personality. AKA I want a Wikipedia article about me. My YouTube channel is linked below. The question I have for my mentor is this: Can I make a Wikipedia article(published by me) about myself? Is it notable enough to be a Wikipedia article? Is it even allowed? Thank you. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyKK9JwgPmjBgXNnmZ4DjQg --MeSauce (talk) 02:34, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

@MeSauce Welcome! In short, no. A WP-article on anything needs to meet the WP:NOTABILITY criteria, meaning that there has to be significant coverage about you in sources WP considers reliable (WP:RS) and at the same time independent of you. The article is then made by summarizing these sources, "we" are not interested in what you want to say about yourself, that is what YT etc is for, we want to know what CNN, Rolling Stone and Le Figaro thinks about you. If such sources appear, an article about you may be possible, but until then, no. Some more context at WP:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing and WP:BACKWARD. Hope this helps some. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:40, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

You should add this to your bio

"I work for the Swedish Governmental Propaganda Task Force and I'm making sure that information on Wikipedia is according to the organizations preferences." 95.193.148.88 (talk) 18:56, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

@Bishonen, they're onto us. Start burning papers and meet me in Kalix at emergency location Guillou. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Roger that. Wear your Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie. Bishonen | tålk 22:40, 31 January 2024 (UTC).

Shakespeare-related draft

Hi! You seem to be somewhat interested in Shakespeare. I'm writing up Draft:Shakespeare: The Invention of the Human, on Harold Bloom's book, but I'm having trouble accessing the last two reviews in the Reception section due to paywall/account restrictions. I don't know if you can access articles either from The Guardian or The New York Review, but if you can and you're willing summarize the contents, I'd much appreciate it! Otherwise I'll keep looking for different access methods, or perhaps just submit the draft as-is. Cheers! 57.140.16.1 (talk) 22:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) The Guardian doesn't have a paywall. Click on the link, then accept cookies, and you're fine. At least I just did that, and I was fine. If problems persist, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange. Bishonen | tålk 22:47, 31 January 2024 (UTC).

@Bishonen, when I click the link it pops up a "Register: it’s quick and easy" thingie which blocks the content and which I can't get past - not on this computer, at any rate. I'll be trying again later when I'm on a computer with access to more and various tools. 57.140.16.1 (talk) 22:54, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Or take a look at the Resource Exchange? It seems to fit your problem. Bishonen | tålk 23:11, 31 January 2024 (UTC).

Except the resources requested at the resource exchange are exchanged to you via email - are they not, @Bishonen? Is there some other way to receive them? 57.140.16.1 (talk) 23:14, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

No, I think you're right about that. Would it be worth the trouble to put up a temporary e-mail address? Or create an account? Bishonen | tålk 23:17, 31 January 2024 (UTC).

I've resisted creating an account for several years now, @Bishonen, I'm not going to compromise my principles for Harold Bloom - or even Shakespeare, much as I love that upstart crow. I think I can get the article through AfC without those reviews; it'd just be nice to have 'em, they're by rather notable critics. 57.140.16.1 (talk) 23:21, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Like Bishonen says, The Guardian should be available, unless it's some geographical thing. On the other... There is a trick that sometimes works. Just for the sake of avoiding copyright infringement, of course. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:38, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Brilliant! I'll get to work on, um, avoiding copyright infringement tomorrow. 57.140.16.1 (talk) 23:42, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Ha. I just want to add that I quite understand about not creating an account, 57.xxx; I didn't mean to push you towards it. Bishonen | tålk 23:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC).

Success. 57.140.16.1 (talk) 17:13, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Outstanding! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:15, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Question from Iliveoutsideofspace (11:08, 3 February 2024)

hi there!

happy to see i have you for my mentor!

i am diving into medium-level difficulty editss first, ive always been rather headstrong/impatient...

i guess my question is this-

how exactly does it look to add a source to an article? what is the format of this?

also, i noticed that i may need to add links "between wikipedia articles". what does this mean?

sorry for the noobish questions. i was gonna google it, but realized how much more cool and fun it would be to message my new mentor!~

thank you!!

-alice, dead girl, aka iliveoutsideofspace --Iliveoutsideofspace (talk) 11:08, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

@Iliveoutsideofspace Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Noobish questions is what I'm here for!

On adding sources/references/citations, see WP:TUTORIAL. If you want to make edits that can "stick", beyond spelling etc, learning how to cite and how the Wikipedia hive-mind thinks about reliable sources (WP:RS) is essential. I mean it. On your other question, are you talking about WP:WIKILINKS? Hope this helps! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:09, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia change

Elise Gabriel was removed because she is an Associate member, not an elected member of the Women Divers Hall of Fame. SueDrafahl (talk) 02:31, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

@SueDrafahl Hello! That sounds plausible enough. However, WP runs on cited published sources (WP:RS), and these [9][10] says "inducted". That may be a mistake or exaggeration on their part (and TBH they're not great sources), and I had noted Gabriel is not on the [11] page. But that could just mean somebody forgot adding her.

I don't know if you're part of the WDHOF or not (I think so), but: are these [12] the Associate members you speak of, and if so, shouldn't she be added there? And if not, is there a WDHOF publication somewhere that mentions her becoming an Associate member? WDHOF News Blog or something else. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:35, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

@SueDrafahl (and @Pbsouthwood) I had hoped you'd reply instead of just making the same edit again [13], but for the moment I won't revert. I would like a reply to my questions though. From the WP point of view, the problem remains. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:23, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

@SueDrafahl, Gråbergs Gråa Sång is correct in their assessment of the situation. You can make it a lot easier for all of us to develop an encyclopedic article to Wikipedia's standards if you will engage with the editors when they request information. You are in no way obliged to do so, but if you don't we cannot take into account those things we cannot find for ourselves, and unsupported additions or removals may be reverted at any time by any editor in good standing. Please work with us here. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 17:09, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

SCP

Think you could help out on the talk page again? I'd rather not be the only one dealing with a particular issue. DS (talk) 04:00, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Commented. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:30, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Nicôle Lecky has been accepted

Nicôle Lecky, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as C-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. This is a great rating for a new article, and places it among the top 21% of accepted submissions — kudos to you! You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider .

Thanks again, and happy editing!

Robert McClenon (talk) 05:46, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

In the future, when leaving a comment for a reviewer, please use the Comment capability of the AFC Helper script to make the comment. That way, it will be automatically deleted when the draft is accepted. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:50, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick review! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:36, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Btw, there was no assessment on the talkpage per above, but I added it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:49, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon, question. I assumed that this would also mean the article was "patrolled", so google would notice it, but that doesn't seem to be the case:[14] Where in the article info/data can one check if an article is patrolled or not? This is pure vanity on my part. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:15, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

On closure

I'm fine with a closure request in principle, but wouldn't you agree that the consensus for exclusion is clear at this point? I say this because closure requests can take months, especially minor / fraught cases like this, and the numbers are clear, even if one leaves out the !vote of that one new user arguing for exclusion and a couple ambiguous comments: 8–5 by my count. And meanwhile an LTA IP user who is very likely the author of the piece is playing a very familiar game with you. Note too that this user is still blocked on another related IP:[15]. Generalrelative (talk) 22:36, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm ok with closure taking time, and I don't agree that consensus is that clear. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:09, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough. I was actually just about to remove this comment because I realized I was mistaken about how long closure typically takes. Thanks for your thoughtful engagement despite our disagreement. Generalrelative (talk) 23:12, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

If I'm going to be stubborn about a minor issue very few WP-readers are likely to ever notice, I can at least try to be polite about it. ;-) Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:19, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Cheers to that :P Generalrelative (talk) 04:54, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Is there any way I can convince you to enable email briefly? I'd like to speak with you privately about an important matter. Alternatively, you can email me and I will reply with my message. Thanks very much, Generalrelative (talk) 23:59, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I prefer to handle WP-stuff on WP. I doubt Harrison will think it's interesting, too minor and pretty much only interesting to Wikipedians, but per "the right wing's highly influential answer to Slate" it would be funny if he did. We're nearing [16] levels. And we would have more RS-ish press. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Question from Feepa2019 (10:03, 13 February 2024)

Hello, Can clear my confusion between sandbox and draft. How can i create a new page? --Feepa2019 (talk) 10:03, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

@Feepa2019 Welcome! Not much difference, but a sandbox or draft in your userspace, like my own https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Gr%C3%A5bergs_Gr%C3%A5a_S%C3%A5ng/sandbox/GGS_Workspace, is not supposed to be edited by other people, unless you put something there that is against Wikipedia's many many many rules. You can create such a page via "Sandbox" in the drop down menu in the top right of a page (assuming you're on a laptop or in desktop view on your device)

A draft, which you can for example create here: Wikipedia:Drafts#Creating_and_editing_drafts is open for anyone to edit, like most WP-articles. That rarely happens, people rarely look at other people's drafts unless there is some reason.

Hope this helps some! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:50, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

You can also create a sandbox by going here: User:Feepa2019/sandbox/My first sandbox, type something, and publish. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:59, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Esther Brown as Tharbis in The Ten Commandments (1956 film).jpg

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:Esther Brown as Tharbis in The Ten Commandments (1956 film).jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:13, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

@Marchjuly, @Jmabel, hope you are well. I uploaded this very nice non-free image for the lead of Tharbis, but I recently found a free one, somewhat older. I'd like to keep this one too in the "In fiction" section, but I don't think I can per the rulez. Unfortunately she's not in the trailer, [17], I checked. Any ideas? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:46, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Not really, other than that perhaps we should do something so it gets undeleted in 2052, by whoever might then be around. - Jmabel | Talk 19:59, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

That's what I thought. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:06, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Question from ATUDA (06:08, 15 February 2024)

Hello, How do i get literatures to edit yet they are protected and need payments to access? --ATUDA (talk) 06:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

@ATUDA Some stuff will be at least partially visible on google books. For some stuff, https://archive.org/ will be helpful. See also [18], which you will get access to if you stick around (and edit). See also WP:RX. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Question from Basketball2024 (16:59, 15 February 2024)

Hello, my page was deleted and I really need the informaiton back --Basketball2024 (talk) 16:59, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

@Fastily, what do you say? [19] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:03, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Question from Basketball2024 (19:44, 15 February 2024)

Hey! I am trying to get an article that I maade yesterday retreieved. It was delteted --Basketball2024 (talk) 19:44, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

@Basketball2024 See thread just above, I tried asking the editor who deleted it, but no response yet. You can also try reading WP:REFUND. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:57, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I've done everything listed. I just need the content back.. Basketball2024 (talk) 20:01, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

It seems you had a reply at Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion#User:Basketball2024/sandbox. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

She

See my talk/Film ? MinorProphet (talk) 18:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

@MinorProphet The secret message can self destruct now, thanks. Damn, I haven't used that program in ages. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:41, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Question from Punachar on Helene Hale (18:35, 26 February 2024)

How to add a picture --Punachar (talk) 18:35, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

@Punachar A specific picture of her you have taken yourself, or just a picture of her in general you found online like these? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:46, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

There are many public government photos of her. I also have pictures of her as well as her family. Punachar (talk) 00:14, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@Punachar Ok. Pictures you have actually taken yourself and US-gov pictures (as in "a work prepared by an officer or employee of the United States Government as part of that person’s official duties") can be uploaded on Commons, it's where WP keeps most pics. Start here If it's a picture you have actually taken yourself, you choose "Yes it's my own work", but only then. If it's a US-gov you mark it with Template:PD-USGov, or a more specific one if you can find it. See under "Usage" on that page how to write it in wikitext.

When the picture is on Commons, it can be added to the WP-article. Hope this helps. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:45, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Note however that state-government stuff may have different rules than US-gov, it's a complex area. I don't know if that's relevant here, but if it is, you can ask about it at Commons:Help desk. If there are no Commons-acceptable pics of her, we can add one on en-WP anyway, since she is no longer with us, but the process is a little different. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:10, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Muhammad and the Bible - Notable passages in Bahá'í interpretation

Hello!

A section in the article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_and_the_Bible was recently removed with the following rationale: "Needs decent independent secondary sources, not the religious texts themselves see WP:RSPSCRIPTURE." Sources I cited were from Baha'i interpreters ('Abdu'l-Baha, Shoghi Effendi) and not primary religious sources. However, as I don't write many articles I would like to ensure that this sections is in compliance with reliable sources. The purpose of the section is to state the Baha'i religion's perspective on the subject matter. Please let me know if you have any concerns or suggestions on how to make the article more useful. Thanks! FortisVault (talk) 15:33, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

I'll comment on article talk. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:06, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Question from Muhammed Şamil Özcan (16:18, 4 March 2024)

Bir sayfayı farklı bir dile çevirirken şablon ve kaynakça çevirmelerinde sorun çıkıyor, Sebebi nedir? --Muhammed Şamil Özcan (talk) 16:18, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@Muhammed Şamil Özcan, perhaps you can find something helpful at Wikipedia:Translation. Also, on English Wikipedia you are supposed to use English, since it's the "local" language. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:35, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Good job jeb

For helping religious articles, I hereby award Gråbergs Gråa Sång with the “Cool Award.” Dr Jackson is not rweal (talk) 20:50, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

I guess SCP can be seen as a religion. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:39, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

No i mean for the hindu Christian stuff Dr Jackson is not rweal (talk) 21:58, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Ah. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:59, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Question from Xhaoshua (18:05, 8 March 2024)

I would like to create an article. I can I do that? --Xhaoshua (talk) 18:05, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

@Xhaoshua It depends. Creating an acceptable WP-article without having done any WP-editing before is difficult. WP:TUTORIAL is a good intro on how to edit.

Start with reading WP:BACKWARDS. If you conclude "Yeah, I have those sources, no problem!" move on to Help:Your first article. Hope this helps. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:14, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Question from Waleed Ukranian (14:22, 9 March 2024)

I didn't understand one thing that I edited article Gaguzia conflict and gave proper citations but it got removed for some reason --Waleed Ukranian (talk) 14:22, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

The first step in any WP-dispute is to try to discuss the matter on the talkpage of the article in question, in this case Talk:Gagauzia conflict. See also Help:Edit summary. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:12, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Introduction to contentious topics

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A special set of rules applies to certain topic areas, which are referred to as contentious topics. These are specially designated topics that tend to attract more persistent disruptive editing than the rest of the project and have been designated as contentious topics by the Arbitration Committee. When editing a contentious topic, Wikipedia’s norms and policies are more strictly enforced, and Wikipedia administrators have special powers in order to reduce disruption to the project.

Within contentious topics, editors should edit carefully and constructively, refrain from disrupting the encyclopedia, and:

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Editors are advised to err on the side of caution if unsure whether making a particular edit is consistent with these expectations. If you have any questions about contentious topics procedures you may ask them at the arbitration clerks' noticeboard or you may learn more about this contentious topic here. You may also choose to note which contentious topics you know about by using the {{Ctopics/aware}} template.

⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 16:02, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Joey Wat

Hi Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I am trying to improve the page on Joey Wat in conformity with WP:COI (I work for her employer). On the article's talk page, I proposed an expanded early life section for consideration. User Ipigott just approved some other additions, but said he would prefer not to be the only editor active on the page. Would you be willing to review the proposed expansion as an impartial editor? The draft adds more details about her upbringing in China and her academic background. Coreyhcooper (talk) 01:46, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Replied at Talk:Joey_Wat#Proposed_expansion_of_Early_Life_and_Education_section. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:00, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Question from Rana Muhammad Wasif Khan (02:42, 17 March 2024)

How do I tag my own articles How can I change it, for some addition or to the part How can I mark heading --Rana Muhammad Wasif Khan (talk) 02:42, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

@Rana Muhammad Wasif Khan if you are here to try to write a WP-article about yourself, don't bother, it's a waste of time. On how to edit, start with reading WP:TUTORIAL carefully. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:32, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Question from Android182003 on Takot Ka Ba Sa Dilim? (01:32, 18 March 2024)

Hello how do I add citations for references on wiki page I'm creating , --Android182003 (talk) 01:32, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

@Android182003 See WP:TUTORIAL. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:50, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

CaseOh DOB

Hello, I am here to ask why you keep removing the DOB from CaseOh? There are not just one, but multiple sources present in the article that state his birthday along with the fact that he has confirmed that is his birthday on his streams before. Thanks. Antny08 (talk) 14:32, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

WP:DOB. No non-crappy ref, no DOB. They are acceptable if there is a WP:BLP-good source, but they are not gold to be mined. It's fine to have articles without them. If you have a video where he says "I was born May 9, 1998", that's fine, cite it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:45, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

CaseOh

Please read the information and consider withdrawing the nomination, I spent so long on this article and I don’t know if I can stay on Wikipedia if it gets deleted. Antny08 (talk) 14:54, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Maybe instead of deleting we could draftify the article until more sources are released? Please, I do not want this article to be permanently deleted. Antny08 (talk) 14:58, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

You can suggest it at the afd if you like (draftify). Even if it is deleted, WP:REFUND is available if useful. Deletion is not necessarily permanent, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Meghan Markle. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:02, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I suggested draftication. Antny08 (talk) 15:07, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I commented that I don't mind. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:11, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I have one question, according to WP:SNG and WP:Notability, it says the subject does not need to meet WP:GNG if it meets WP:SNG. For WP:ANYBIO, it says they are notable if they won a significant award, or were nominated for multiple significant awards. CaseOh was nominated for 3 different awards at the Streamer Awards and won one of them. This event had 645,000 concurrent viewers, and was broadcasting everywhere online during its airing. It is a very popular event with many famous people attending and watching. I believe this proves the notability. Please let me know what you think. Antny08 (talk) 16:01, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

That section says "People are likely to be notable if..." That means that if they meet those criteria, WP:GNG/WP:BASIC sources are likely to be around. According to some afd-comments so far, they are not. Editors may have different views on if Streamer Awards counts as "well-known and significant award". For one thing, it's very new, and mainstream coverage of it, like CNN etc, seems to be somewhat lacking. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:26, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I see, but WP:Notability states "

A topic is

presumed

to merit an article if:

1. It meets either the general notability guideline (GNG) below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific notability guideline (SNG); and
2. It is not excluded under the What Wikipedia is not policy."

The first one states that it can either meet the GNG guidelines or the SNG guidelines. It doesn't say it has to meet both. The article meets the SNG guidelines, so I believe that makes it notable. Antny08 (talk) 17:34, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

No. It doesn't meet the SNG WP:BASIC. ANYBIO says people with, say, an Oscar or a Pulitzer, probably meets WP:BASIC, but not necessarily so. A 2022 award by QTCinderella is, IMO, quite obviously not an Oscar or Pulitzer. People can disagree on if it's close enough, but it seems to have failed to generate any WP-good coverage so far. Feel free to seek other views. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:44, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

The WP:BASIC is for the general notability guideline. To meet SNG, all you need to do is prove that they won a significant or well-known award. The creator of the Streamer Awards doesn't really matter, its the event that matters. Once again, the awards reached 645,000 concurrent viewers this year, so obviously it is pretty popular. I also noticed that WP:ANYBIO says significant OR well-known award. Wouldn't the gold playbutton fall under the well-known category? It is very well known, and it might not be as rare as a nobel prize, but it is pretty significant. And once again, WP:ANYBIO does not specify how large an award has to be, it doesn't say it needs to be as major as a noble prize or an oscar or a pulitzer. Antny08 (talk) 19:32, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

So, you have to get other people to agree with you that the awards you consider significant are significant. And again, significant awards, per Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Additional_criteria, only means that BASIC-sources are likely to be around. A Pulitzer-winner doesn't necessarily merit an article either, the in-depth RS sources have to be there. And if someone has a Pulitzer, they probably will be. Personally, I don't consider automatic YT-marks like play buttons significant for WP:N either. 645,000 concurrent viewers this year doesn't matter, an article about the event in Washington Post or The New Yorker does. If those articles consider 645,000 concurrent viewers this year to be interesting, then that number may be interesting in the WP-context. Without context, it's just a number. You mean it to sound impressive, but what are people supposed to think it's impressive compared to?

Those are my thoughts on this, and this discussion is quite irrelevant for the afd. I suggest you make your arguments there, the afd-closer is the one you need to convince. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:48, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Question from ObssesivlyAnalytical (06:00, 25 March 2024)

Hello I did an article edit for a manga artists/writer but it was considered a stub. I was wondering if databases would be credible sources to add since I cross-refrenced two different ones to add to her article. --ObssesivlyAnalytical (talk) 06:00, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

@ObssesivlyAnalytical Hello! Context matters a lot, and it will depend on what databases and what you intend to use them for in the article. In general, databases will not help the argument for WP:N, but they may have some use anyway, as a WP:EL if nothing else. Manga is not really my area, in your shoes I'd try asking for input at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga or Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Comics. Hope this helps some. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:42, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Question from Wackypedia00 (16:55, 25 March 2024)

Hello! I am new here and very overwhelmed. The task I am seeking to accomplish is the creation of a Wikipedia page for my wife, Julie Reiber, who is a well regarded and recognized Broadway performer.

Can you tell me if the draft I submitted was correct? I honestly don't even know where to find it. I made sure to disclose my COI and to highly cite references. --Wackypedia00 (talk) 16:55, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

@Wackypedia00 Hello and welcome! So: as the first thing you do on Wikipedia, you want create an acceptable article (difficult)... about your wife (difficult squared). This is theoretically possible.

Very much to your credit, you've done an unusual amount of things right. There's a COI-declaration at User:Wackypedia00 (I will put one at Draft talk:Julie Reiber as well), you've put citations in the right places, MOSTLY avoided WP:PUFFERY (this is hard when you're writing about family etc) and you started and submitted the article as a draft. Basically, you're behaving just as "we" want you to in your situation, and that doesn't happen often.

A reviewer will, sooner or later, look at your draft and compare your sources to WP:N and WP:BIO. That is the fundamental difficulty to getting an article accepted, if the required sources aren't there, that's it.

Some suggestions:

• Check WP:LEAD. The lead is supposed to be a summary of the rest of the article, so rethink that part and move everything that is not that.
• MOS:DATED. Basically... Ok. I see now that another editor, @ForsythiaJo, is working on the draft. I'll stop writing now, we'll see what happens.

Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:46, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks and some questions

Hi @Gråbergs Gråa Sång, many thanks for your help with the Jonathan Jacoby article. I'd like to ask you a couple of questions if I may:

• Could I get ProQuest access? If so, how?
• Do all academic qualifications mentioned in a Wikipedia article require a citation? In either case, how does one obtain evidence of such qualifications?

Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 12:27, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

@Misha Wolf Can you access [20]? If so, ProQuest is there. And a lot more.

Rule of thumb, in a WP:BLP you should cite everything. In a case like this, something WP:ABOUTSELF is probably good enough, like [21]. It's not perfect, people pad their CV:s, and it does NOT help with WP:N, but you can use it and if someone complains, deal with it then. One can also argue that if there is no independent RS, should it be in the WP-article per WP:PROPORTION? It's a judgement call. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:39, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 13:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Question from Mismedios on User talk:Mismedios (18:17, 26 March 2024)

Hi Grabergs! I'm working on an article and I wanted to now your opinion. It's in my sandbox, but I'm not sure how to send it to you. Thank you and hope you're having a great day! --Mismedios (talk) 18:17, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

@Mismedios If you have published something in your sandbox/userspace I should be able to see it here [22], but I don't. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:24, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

A few Qs re the ProQuest hits you mentioned

Hi again, @Gråbergs Gråa Sång. I've got on my screen three ProQuest hits you mentioned in relation to Jonathan Jacoby:

• NEW AGE REVOLUTIONARY
• Barak's Favorite Peace Group Loses Its Founder
• CQ News

When citing any of them, should I link to their ProQuest Web pages or do I need to (try to) find them out in the open?

I looked for CQ News in Wikipedia and found a CQ News but it doesn't seem to be the right CQ News. Oh, I've just found Congressional Quarterly and Roll Call. Should I be using one of those as the name of the publication? If so, which one? I see that ProQuest shows the publication title as "CQ News & Schedules". Is that what I should use? If so, which Wikipedia page should I link it to?

The CQ News article doesn't seem to have a title, unless the title is "CQ News". Is that correct?

Thanks! Misha Wolf (talk) 13:56, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Not paywalled url:s are of course more reader-friendly if you can find them, but WP:PAYWALLED url:s are very much allowed.

It seems Congressional Quarterly is the one, or close enough. It does not seem to have a title, which, tbh, is a little weird. Also, you never have to ping someone at their own talkpage, it has no extra effect. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 21:59, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Question from Lovinternationalschool on User:Lovinternationalschool/sandbox (19:26, 2 April 2024)

Hi! Hope you're well, My name is Miguel and I've been using Wikipedia since forever but I'm a beginner when it comes to editing and making an article. I'm making an article for a international school I work for In Japan and I was tasked to make an article of the school in wikipedia. I've just started, my account is more than 5 days old, but I can't seem to move what I made to the main page. I hope you can help me. Thanks! --Lovinternationalschool (talk) 19:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

@Lovinternationalschool, welcome! Moving an article to mainspace requires WP:AUTOCONFIRM, and you haven't made the number of edits.

However, looking at your draft, you've made some very usual mistakes for someone in your position, and "we have" is a minor one. If you were to move it to mainspace, it would quickly be moved back or deleted. Some initial reading:

• WP:BACKWARDS
• Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing
• WP:NORG
• WP:COI

Hope this helps some. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:06, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi! Got it! Quick question, When you say "number of edits", does that mean edits done in the article I created? or edits in any article? Lovinternationalschool (talk) 23:51, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Edits to any WP-page counts. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

FTN

I was going to respond there with:

Isn't it difficult to get a herb into a cell? Perhaps if you buy it a couple of drinks...

but thought better of it. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 10:42, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

"A virus is what we doctors call "Very, very small." So small it could not possibly have made off with the whole leg." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:53, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Question from RyanTahamid (10:39, 5 April 2024)

Hello! I'm a newcomer to this side of WP, so I'm overly cautious when making major edits. I just wanted to ask regarding WP's verifiability policy.

One of the issues flagged on my favorite WP article is how it "may rely excessively on sources too closely associated with the subject." I understand this is to prevent people from just quoting themselves and advertising opinions as fact.

However, does that policy apply to the history of an institution only the institution has records for? Suppose, no local historians bothered to publish an independent historical account of some provincial ABC institution. Can we cite, in reference, ABC's self-published historical record?

Thank you so much! --RyanTahamid (talk) 10:39, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@RyanTahamid Welcome! Yes... BUT. Consider WP:ABOUTSELF. You can source simple facts about an org to the org itself, but such content should not be a large part of the article. Our goal is to summarize independent WP:RS about whatever. If no independent source bothered to notice a certain fact, it's likely off-topic for WP (WP:NPOV). Also, ABOUTSELF sources never helps the argument for WP:N. Hope this helps. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:57, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much! I will take this in consideration and begin asking historian friends if they know any third-person accounts of the institution. RyanTahamid (talk) 11:28, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

"Most" vs "nearly all" academic Shakespeareans

Hello- While I no longer find it worth wrestling with other editors in an effort to remove bias from Wikipedia, I will inform you that "most" does not mean "like about 51%": AHD, Cambridge. I find that "nearly all" adds an unnecessary tone of rejection that "most" does not, and so I saw the IP editor's change as an improvement. Eric ^talk 11:49, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

And I think "nearly all" is more inline with WP:FALSEBALANCE + source given. Call it an appropriate tone of rejection. It (saq) can be a fun topic though. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:57, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Merchant of Venice

Hi, just to let you know that I noted your comments undoing my previous edit and have reinstated a note of the historical inaccuracy with a smallish change to the Plot Summary, including a reference to the US Library of Congress post. Hope that meets with your approval! AlexAndrews (talk) 19:34, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Replied at Talk:The_Merchant_of_Venice#Historical_error_in_plot. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:57, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Enhanced Games

Don't just throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to edits. If you want to take the "See Also" stuff out, fine, but there were a lot of solid minor edits that you just reverted while being too lazy to check for the good edits. Electricmaster (talk) 05:01, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Actually, I did and reinserted some. The in-quote [,] punctuation was very weird IMO. I have no firm opinion on the $ thing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:11, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Further reply at Talk:Enhanced_Games#Recent_edits. Let's keep article issues at the article talkpage. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:44, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Question from Knoxxshyuwbduwbdw (16:35, 16 April 2024)

Can i do my own article about Civil air patrol --Knoxxshyuwbduwbdw (talk) 16:35, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

@Knoxxshyuwbduwbdw Wikipedia already has the article Civil Air Patrol, so I'm not sure what you are thinking about. That one is US-specific, are you thinking about something like Civil Air Patrol (Peru)? See WP:BACKWARDS and WP:Your first article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:30, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Joey Wat

Hi Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I wanted to check-in on Talk:Joey_Wat#Proposed_expansion_of_Early_Life_and_Education_section. I disclosed a COI and proposed an expanded Early life section. You had responded with a couple tweaks, which I have incorporated into the draft. I wanted to see if you felt the expanded draft was ready or had more feedback. No rush, just checking in. Coreyhcooper (talk) 04:15, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I wanted to check-in on this from last month. I disclosed a COI, proposed an expanded early life section, and made some small changes based on your feedback. Would love to know if you have any other feedback and/or if it's ready to go in the article. Many thanks. Coreyhcooper (talk) 13:52, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

History of Christianity

You do realize I hope, that now that you have stuck your ironic nose in on the recent peer review that you have let it be known you are following what's going on. It seems to me that sort of obligates you to make some actual comments. They don't have to be positive comments. If you see any problems, say so. Source checking would be a genuine gift - or punishment... But don't mess with me on this one. It's beginning to look like my life's work, and I have had headache after headache over it. Jenhawk777 (talk) 14:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry to be annoying. Never think I don't respect your work on these articles. If I dare to read anything in it, I might do or say something. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:22, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

It isn't you, it's me. I am grumpy and touchy about this frickin-frackin*#!! article. I was thrown off balance by one commenter who said the article didn't even deserve its GA, but I am now aware that he goes around making overblown claims on a regular basis. "I found a mistake! Let's delete the whole thing!" I am now better prepared for our next encounter, but I probably do still have a bit of a chip on my shoulder over it. I'm sorry. I don't mean to take out my frustrations on you. I just want to hit him about the head and shoulders until he goes away. That's all. No big deal right? You comment any way you want any time. Jenhawk777 (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

That motto on your imaginary coat of arms has a lot of relevance, doesn't it? Good to talk to you, I felt I had to give a shoutout to Xover earlier today: User_talk:Xover#Hello!_I_miss_seeing_you_around. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:18, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Fun fact

One of the actors who appeared in Upstart Crow as one of Shakespeare's children was in my very first class when I started teaching in London. She must be nearly twenty now, time flows on... Girth Summit _(blether) 08:32, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Cool! I had watched both that and Game of Thrones, but it wasn't until much later I realized that Gemma Whelan was in both. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:39, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

I definitely wasn't her - I'm not that old! Girth Summit _(blether) 12:31, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

She wasn't Shakespeare's daughter either.

"In August 2020, on his 40th birthday, Culkin tweeted, "Hey guys, wanna feel old? I'm 40. You're welcome." The tweet became one of the most-liked tweets of all time, peaking at number 9." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:53, 19 April 2024 (UTC)