User talk:Novem Linguae/Archive 5

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Little typo

Hi Novem Linguae, Again thanks for the species helper script. There seems to be a little typo built in (example in page history Copionodon lianae) - it adds short description Species of catfishe - not the end of the world but you might check it out when not so busy Josey Wales ^Parley 09:28, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Hey Joseywales1961. This should probably fix it. Please let me know if you find any more bugs. I like squashing bugs. Thanks for reporting. –Novem Linguae (talk) 14:56, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks (I think it looks like it would be easier for me to learn Greek or Hebrew thank learn how scripts work LOL) Josey Wales ^Parley 20:42, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

This one grew into one of my bigger scripts. 1800 lines of code. It's 4 separate files when I'm working on it in my code editor, then I use a special script to combine them all and publish it. It also has around 100 unit tests. Fun project. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:45, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Wikipedia featured topics Overview of Regine Velasquez good content

A tag has been placed on Category:Wikipedia featured topics Overview of Regine Velasquez good content indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:54, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Congrats to the folks over at Talk:Regine Velasquez. The promotion of that article recently from GA to FA is what emptied out the category. I added {{Db-author}} to help this get deleted quicker. –Novem Linguae (talk) 17:55, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Revert

My apologies for accidentally revert. I do edit Wikipedia on android which is not working well at the moment. Just thought I'd explain to you.--Ts12rAc^{talk to me} 17:42, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Ts12rAc. No worries. I figured it was a misclick so I didn't warn. Happy editing my friend. –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:23, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

CiteHighlighter.js

Hi Novem_Linguae, thanks for your awesome script. I would like to use it on other project, but I got some error message as the request URL is hardcoded inside your script. Would you mind removing the https://en.wikipedia.org prefix? Thanks a lot! Stang 23:33, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

@Stang. Done. Thanks for suggesting. I'm glad you're enjoying the script :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 23:50, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Australian Wind Symphony

Hi there, this article was edited to meet standards a couple of months ago. How do I go about getting it published? Many thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated. Cacklebarbary (talk) 12:09, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

@Cacklebarbary. Hey there. I see the draft is currently "submitted". That is the first and most important step to getting a draft reviewed. It is now in the queue, and someone will be along to evaluate it for you. Unfortunately we do have a bit of a backlog, so it could take a few weeks or months. Sorry for the delay. –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:03, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Userscript Award!

	The Userscript Award
	For all your hard work developing amazing userscripts! Thanks for your contributions. ––FormalDude talk 12:33, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

FormalDude. Thank you. I'm happy to help! –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:42, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

DraftCleaner sidebar positioning

Shouldn't this be set under the Tools section in the side bar, rather than in the main section? – robertsky (talk) 03:35, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Hey @Robertsky. Thanks for the question. I personally like it higher up so I don't have to scroll down. However if you'd like it lower I can create an option to insert into your common.js that would place it lower. Want me to do that? –Novem Linguae (talk) 05:01, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

yup, that should do. actually. i was thinking if we could just overwrite the sidebar and add a new section titled: 'AcF/NPP toolbox' or something, and stuff the relevant tools in there (as an option). :D – robertsky (talk) 05:45, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Done. Add this to the top of your common.js to activate the setting: window.draftCleanerPutInToolsMenu = true; Enjoy :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 07:11, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

thanks! – robertsky (talk) 16:01, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Do you have an opinion?

See Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard#Zero_COVID.Moxy- 01:06, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Script not turning up in toolbar

Hi there. I just discovered your Draft cleaner user script, which looks really great! Unfortunately, it does not show up in my tool box. I've tried different skins and emptied my cache, but that does not seem to be the problem. Do you have any idea if I'm doing something wrong. My common.js: User:Femkemilene/common.js. Thanks! Femke (talk) 18:04, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Adding window.draftCleanerPutInToolsMenu = true works :). But I'm quite sure it didn't turn up in the main menu before either. I might be blind. Femke (talk) 18:08, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

@Femkemilene. Howdy :) Working for me on old vector skin + your common.js file copied into mine. Screenshot with expected location marked with an orange square. Make sure to test it on a mainspace or draftspace page, it won't load in userspace. If still not working, let me know your skin and I'll troubleshoot some more. –Novem Linguae (talk) 18:11, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

It's there now.. Must have been blind. Sorry to bother you. Femke (talk) 18:14, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

@Femkemilene. No worries. Happy to help. Keep up the great work on climate change articles :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 18:16, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

requesting your input

Hi. I hope you are doing well.
Your input at wikitech:Help talk:Toolforge/Pywikibot is requested, and will be appreciated a lot. Regards, —usernamekiran (talk) 08:20, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Hey @Usernamekiran. My suggestion would be, if grid is working fine, don't worry about migrating. I hear kubernetes is harder than grid. Hope that helps. Glad to hear you got your bot running. –Novem Linguae (talk) 08:32, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

yeah, I would have preferred it too, but I recently received an email from wmf saying that they will "in June 2022 [...] shut down all Stretch hosts including Stretch Grid Engine", and they said there are two available options: buster grid engine, and kubernetes.

I have been meaning to formally thank you properly, and everyone else who helped regarding the bot, but I have always been busy with something or other. I still plan on doing it though. —usernamekiran (talk) 09:05, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

I wonder if moving to buster grid would be easier than moving to Kubernetes. Maybe look into that. You may also get good advice from the person on the page you linked. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:18, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/administrators

I have started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Editor Retention/administrators#Wikipedia:Administrators § Involved admins regarding one of your edits. Your participation would be appreciated! isaacl (talk) 22:49, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion

@Novem Linguae: I have a suggestion, how about having your bot go through the userbox galleries and change the userboxes that say usbk to yy. Catfurball (talk) 15:55, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Hey there. Sure, I can look into it. Can you link a diff so I can visualize this better? How many pages would be affected? Is this a cosmetic edit or a substantive edit? Does it have consensus? –Novem Linguae (talk) 16:31, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

@Novem Linguae: I do know that User:Buaidh has changed at least one of the newer userbox galleries from usbk to yy. I don't know how many gallery pages are using usbk thou, since my work with these userboxes has been very slow. I have noticed that since I have been working with these sports fan userboxes and added many of them to the galleries, that many of the sports galleries are still using usbk. Catfurball (talk) 17:53, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Hey there. Thanks for the info. Can you provide a diff? –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:15, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

@Novem Linguae: I do know that many of the newer userbox galleries were made by User:Buaidh, so I think those might be yy. As for the diff??? Is this what you want??? Template:WP:UBS Catfurball (talk) 21:23, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Could you fix one of the pages you'd like fixed and provide the diff? Would help me visualize. I'm having trouble understanding. –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:33, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

There are some differences between the Template:Usbk associated templates and the Template:Yy associated templates. The differences are explained at Template:Yy. I designed the Yy series to add flexibility and functionality.

The simplest conversion involves the following:

1. Replace all usbktop with yytop.
2. Replace all usbk with yy.
3. Replace all usbkbottom with yyend.

Since the Yy series has greater complexity than the Usbk series, this simple replacement may cause very long pages to overflow. In that case the page may need to be broken into two pages. Check the page for any errors before proceeding to the next page. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Yours aye,  Buaidh  talk e-mail 23:45, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. Would still be great to get the answers to my original 4 questions (diff? how many pages affected? is it a cosmetic edit? does it have consensus?), or at least a diff. Hard to proceed without this information. –Novem Linguae (talk) 02:34, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Template:Usbk is found on 1,859 pages and Template:Yy is found on 10,290 pages. It is a functional change rather than a cosmetic change. It is a consensus only by greater use. See me if you have any more questions. Yours aye,  Buaidh  talk e-mail 03:30, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Here's a DIFF. Wikipedia:Userboxes/Sports/Football/UEFA/Germany oldid=1084671230 and Wikipedia:Userboxes/Sports/Football/UEFA/Germany.  Buaidh  talk e-mail 03:45, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

I think I'm going to be busy for about a month or so. In the interest of not holding this up, moving it to WP:BOTREQ. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 05:31, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Moved to Wikipedia:Bot requests § Replace usbk template family with yy

Help

Hi, Novem Linguae, please i have worked on Rashida Bello and other well thought editor have contributed on the page, GoingBatty has also been helpful on the page, please i want to know how long could it take for it to be reviewed or what else should i add sir! Regards.Dorathy Nnaji (talk) 17:54, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello friend. The article is in the queue and will get reviewed eventually. There is a several month backlog. There isn't much of a rush because the only thing reviewing does is make it show up on Google. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:24, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Stubs

Thank you for your recent edit to Pachnoda tridentata, but please remember to remove {{stub}} from an article when adding a specific stub tag, even when it wasn't in just the right place. Thanks. PamD 07:14, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Hey @PamD. I added a feature to my user script to do this a couple hours ago. Should be fixed going forward. Please let me know if I let any others slip through. Happy editing. –Novem Linguae (talk) 07:17, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Technical Barnstar
	This barnstar is for your awesome knowledge about coding and for the nice script that you made for me on my request. This is highly appreciated. Thanks a lot for all your service here. The community wants people like you very much. Keep up your good work. Regards, Itcouldbepossible Talk 15:14, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

High praise. Thank you very much! –Novem Linguae (talk) 15:58, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

NovemBot: Update list of users who have permissions failure - Fixed

NovemBot's task "Update list of users who have permissions" failed to run per the configuration specified at Wikipedia:Bot activity monitor/Configurations. Detected only 0 edits in the last 3 days, whereas at least 1 was expected. If/when the issue is fixed, please change the section title (e.g. append " - Fixed") or remove this section completely. When that is done, this notice will be reposted if the bot task is still broken or is re-broken. If your bot is behaving as expected, then you may want to modify the task configuration instead. Or to unsubscribe from bot failure notifications, remove the |notify= parameter from the {{/task}} template. Thanks! – SDZeroBot (talk) 13:20, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Merchandise Giveaway Nomination

You deserve a thank you! I thought that you deserved something a bit extra for all of the AMAZING work you've done for the project. I've nominated you for a gift from the Wikimedia Foundation! ––FormalDude talk 23:06, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the nomination. If I am selected I'll be sure to put the swag to good use :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 00:15, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

GAN review tool

Hi Novem, didn't see an open section for your GAN Review Tool script. Just tried it out. I've never atoped a GAN before, as sometimes there scope for a bit more conversation, but I understand the purpose if it can't be optional. Other than that, it seems to have worked well, except that the addition to the GA list was out of alpha order. I have a sneaking suspicion that it is being thrown off by the "É" special character. Best, CMD (talk) 09:35, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

I would also suggest adding scientific names as an example of a title that should be italicized. CMD (talk) 10:28, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Chipmunkdavis. Great feedback. I will release a patch for all 3 of those things when I get a minute. Thanks for reporting. –Novem Linguae (talk) 17:38, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Moved to User talk:Novem Linguae/Scripts/GANReviewTool § Accented characters, species, toggle for ATOP

Draft:ICICB Group

Thanks for your help and learn me how to edit the page, I've edited the part. The article about the company is the partner with atari. Can you help me again and let me know the next steps — Preceding unsigned comment added by بسمة النظامي (talk • contribs) 03:39, May 9, 2021 (UTC)

NotSoFast.js

Hi! I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong because my NewPagesFeed doesn't look any different? Diff 1 Diff 2. I could be making just a silly mistake, so I figured I would ask someone who knows javascript because I don't. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 06:36, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: User:IAmChaos/common.js

@IAmChaos. Hey there. Thanks for the question. Looks like there was a bug in the script due to Special:NewPagesFeed recently changing their date format. Try it now. –Novem Linguae (talk) 07:49, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, sorry I saw your ping last night but was on my phone, so I couldn't test it. I just cleared my cache but I'm still not seeing it with colors. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 18:32, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Works for me on desktop and old vector skin. What skin are you using? –Novem Linguae (talk) 09:28, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

P.S. I am seeing a couple other issues though. 1) My script is only working intermittently, there is probably some sort of race condition going on that I need to fix. 2) There is a bug in Special:NewPagesFeed that is displaying creation times one hour ahead of local time settings. phab:T303124. However this does not appear to affect the highlighting, I got it to highlight correctly even with this bug. I'll keep working on this and report back. –Novem Linguae (talk) 09:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Hey, sorry it took m e awhile to get back. I honestly haven't noticed the bug in the feed, but I don't live in UTC, so I wouldn't, I kind of just look at the minute counter when I bother to check times onwiki. I am on Vector with the Legacy option (2010). Let me find my imgur pwd and I can show you my feed. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 04:47, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Ok, I don't need my password [1] (edit:sorry to send so many pings but I just opened up Vector 2022 (which im not a fan of) and didn't see colors)Happy Editing--IAmChaos 04:50, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

You're using the same skin as me so that's not the issue. I will need some help fixing this one. I asked in Discord and didn't get any responses. I have also asked at Wikipedia talk:User scripts#User script working intermittently. Fingers crossed that someone helps out with this one. –Novem Linguae (talk) 05:17, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

IAmChaos. Nardog helped me fix this the other day. Can you check new pages feed and let me know if you see colors? –Novem Linguae (talk) 17:34, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Its not working. I saw you had added some console.log in the code, and when I opened the console, I got Refused to execute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Novem_Linguae/Scripts/NotSoFast.js as script because "X-Content-Type-Options: nosniff" was given and its Content-Type is not a script MIME type. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 18:20, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

IAmChaos. Hey there. In your common.js file, try changing mw.loader.load('//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Novem_Linguae/Scripts/NotSoFast.js'); to mw.loader.load('//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Novem_Linguae/Scripts/NotSoFast.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript'); or {{subst:Lusc|User:Novem_Linguae/Scripts/NotSoFast.js}}. –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:30, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

It is working now! One last thing for you; it seems to be highlighting based off of local time, not UTC. (my wiki prefs are set to UTC) Happy Editing--IAmChaos 20:15, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

IAmChaos. Can you elaborate and possibly post a screenshot? What are the steps to reproduce? Is the range of highlighted articles bigger than 15 mins/1 hour? –Novem Linguae (talk) 07:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Yeah. Right now I am posting at 21:19 UTC, but highlighting goes all the way back to 16:19UTC because it is 17:19 local time for me. in Special:GlobalPreferences, I am set to use the wiki time (UTC). Happy Editing--IAmChaos 21:20, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

@IAmChaos. Alright I think I fixed the timezone bug. Please try it now and report back :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 03:24, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

PERFECT! Thank you Happy Editing--IAmChaos 20:46, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Edit Request Tool changes

Hello, I just made some significant changes to User:Terasail/Edit Request Tool. Since you have the tool active, I am informing you of this since it may affect you. To open the tool you will now have to click the "respond" button. The tool will load a similar interface as before. There is now a live preview of the response. These changes might have introduced some bugs so if you have any concerns / suggestions or run into problems please leave a note at User talk:Terasail/Edit Request Tool Thanks, Terasail^[✉️] 15:20, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

NPP - 'NOINDEX'

Hi. Do we have an update on what's happening? It was thrown out of Phab because someone decided it needed yet another (3rd) RfC although the pevious ones had clear consesus. Apparently one was started at the VP but I can't find it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:57, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Hey there. I was planning on letting MB take the lead on it. I emailed him about this a couple days ago and he said he's busy in real life for a bit. There's a village pump proposals thread at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#New page search engine NOINDEX duration, but it is just a pointer to the NPP thread. There's not currently anything tagged RFC nor anything at WP:CENT, which sounds like is probably the next step. One strategy would be to {{Atop}} both the current threads, remake at WP:VPR with the RFC tag, propose "indefinite" specifically since that's the consensus of the NPP discussion, and re-ping everyone. This is extra bureaucracy, but could help avoid a "no consensus on duration" type close. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 07:08, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

I finally located the post at the VP. As you say, it was indeed only a notification about the RfC at WT:NPR, which still has consensus as did the earlier original RfC which got somehow swept under the carpet. So as far as I can see there should be no reason for anyone to post at Phab in order to stall the request. I have posted at Phab that consensus has not changed and asked them to get on with it. I was a bit disappointed that some people appeared to have possibly been attempting to convince the devs otherwise. But after all these years and the debacle over ACTRIAL I have a nasty suspicious mind. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:41, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

NPP tech issues

Since we have no coordinator, my thought is to divide up the work into many smaller slices. We need someone to stay on top of the bug fixes and enhancement requests. Since you are sort-of doing that already, can we make it official and list you this person? I think someone has done this in the past, and made suggestions on behalf of NPP at the yearly wishlist or whatever that is called. But I don't see anything presently organized. The Suggestion page has a lot of links to Phab tasks, but I know that is not complete. The one discussed today about AFDs not working (238025) isn't there at all.

I would like to see a simple table of all the NPP requests, prioritized (from our perspective), like this:

NPP Phab tracking

Phab	Opened	Description	Bug	Priority	Status	Comment
310974	06-2022	Extend No-index time	N	High	Open
238025	11-2019	Opening AFDs	Y	Low	Open	Workaround - Twinkle

You can probably get something similar out of Phabricator, but without our priority (I'm not really sure if they would all be categorized as NPP/Page Curation or maybe some are just tagged as Growth Team?) Regardless, it would be better to have a easily accessible list here. We can't really start arguing that NPP needs more developer support without having a good idea of what's been requested. Can you take this on? MB 04:11, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

That 'someone' who did this in the past was me for many years, followed by some help from Insertcleverphrasehere and then Barkeep49 before RL or a change in focus led them to retire their coordination of NPP. There have been three separate tickets opened at Phab for the AfD issue and they were basically ignored each time. Details are in the thread at WT:NPR. Phab has never been a particularly easy venue for discussions with its management, but it would be a start if those concerned, including Joe Roe would subscribe to those tickets by making some comment that would reinforce the argument that 3 years is too long to wait for a small but important fix. Despite what some users claim, Twinkle is not an option.

The NPP system was offered, developed, and engineered in 2012 by senior paid WMF staff in direct collaboration with the NPP community. It stands to reason therefore, that the WMF staff should guarantee its maintenance and promptly address any bugs. Requests for pure 'convenience' features and enhancements will almost certainly be ignored by Phab. The have to be campaigned for at the annual Wish List which is run by either the Growth Team, or Community Tech.

Despite the consensus, the comments at Phab by one user who opposes the extension of the No-Index time have got it put on hold, and although a volunteer MediaWiki dev has created a patch, it might now be difficult to convince the Phab management to get it it rolled out. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:56, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Hey MB. Sure, happy to take this on, as long as it doesn't step on Kudpung's toes. I am currently doing something similar for WT:TWINKLE where I have turned into a bug wrangler and developer, and I also have some experience submitting tickets to AFCH. My sense is we can push through easy, high priority bug fixes as long as we have well written tickets. Majavah/Taavi has been awesome and has been swooping in to take care of the recent easy tickets. Now that we have a narrow scope for this AFD bug (I edited one of the Phab tickets to narrow the scope), we stand a good chance of getting it worked on. I may even take a stab at it if I get time. –Novem Linguae (talk) 09:18, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Nobody's stepping on my toes. I've simply come out of retirement temporarily to lend some of my insttutional memory to NPP and give MB a starting boost in a hope that it will move things forward. I'll be gone again in a flash as soon as the situation with coordination is sorted out and some solutions to the current crises have been found. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:24, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Great, I've added your name on the Coordinators page to make it "official". I also put the above stub table on the Suggestions page as a start. The description field should probably link to the discussion, and the phab should link also. I am assuming High/Med/Low is enough granularity - what do you think. After the table is complete, we should ask everyone to review and discuss issues. For example, I put the AFD fix as low because I think most people just use Twinkle (I do), but Kudpung seems to disagree. MB 18:48, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I'd be in favor of weighing the AFD bug kind of high. Stuff like the AFD bug are what gives the tool a reputation for being buggy and what drives people to use Twinkle, despite the hundreds of development hours that went into PageTriage. It also probably affects a large number of NPPs. It might also be easy to fix.

I'd be careful of duplicating the list of bugs in too many places (this includes the new bug priority table). Phabricator is likely to be our best bang for our buck. Why's that? Because a volunteer developer who comes along is likely to look for a list of bugs to fix in Phabricator, because it is closest to the code review software Gerrit. I speak from experience here, when I started writing patches for Twinkle, I didn't use WT:TWINKLE to get my list of bugs to fix, I used its Phabricator equivalent (GitHub Issues).

I'll go ahead and start filling out the table. But long term, I may focus more effort on making sure every WT:NPPR and WP:PCSI bug report and feature request has a Phab ticket. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:09, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't want unnecessary duplication either. But what do you mean "the list of bugs"? This new table is the only list anywhere on en.wp, right? The list in Phabricator is the only other one. They serve different purposes, especially since Phab is not that easy to use and scares some people off. A summary here is just a quick view of the problems for the benefit of NPP. We (anyone on the project) should be able to easily tell how many problems there are, how old they are, etc. This will be invaluable for making requests at the Community Wishlist. I agree that developers would have no use for this list. MB 23:56, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I also consider random software threads at WT:NPPR, and all of the threads at WP:PCSI, to be lists of bugs. Also we can generate lists of bugs sorted by date on Phabricator with a search such as this one. But anyway I hear ya. Let's try out your table to track recent and important bug reports. –Novem Linguae (talk) 00:27, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Can you please confirm that T311347 is indeed carried out and operational? After all these years I still can't cut through the dev jargon at Phab. BTW, I'm very much in favour of weighing the AFD bug kind of high. I spent many hours on discussion and costly (my cost) face-to-face meetings on the development that went into PageTriage and its 2018 face-lift. I would like to leave NPP with the best set of tools ever and I don't relish the thought that my time was wasted.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:34, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Good thinking. I was also planning on testing it. It did not pass my test case so I have reopened the ticket. –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:47, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Tested and working :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:56, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Programming

I'm full of admiration for people who do it. Self taught, I can just about get my head round some HTML and very basic Regex. I come from an era in which information technology as we know it today, was still pure science fiction and 'computer' meant ENIAC. Aklapper, despite his claims to the contrary, is indeed the sole voice of authority at Phab, and for him to assume that all contributors to Wikipedia are all competent programmers and scriptwriters is an insult to my intelligence and anyone else of my generation. I still contend most strongly that the WMF should provide the ongoing support and required upgrades for the applications they develop. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:44, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Phab list

Hey Novem Linguae, I've been keeping a half-eye on New pages patrol/Coordination#Phab list (and T310974) — I appreciate the effort in organising all of this. Is there anything I (solely in my volunteer capacity) can do to help? I agree with Kudpung above that phab can be a little jargon-heavy at times, so if there's anything I can do to help in that regard too, please don't hesitate to let me know — TNT (talk • she/her) 21:52, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Hey @TheresNoTime. Thanks for the very kind offer to help. I have a couple ideas that come to mind. 1) Do you mind if I DM you on Discord from time to time with technical and WMF related questions? 2) One of our biggest bugs that NPPs are asking us to solve and is probably solvable is Page Curation fails to create AFD page. I took a look at that for a couple hours the other day but was unable to crack it. However it's a frequent bug. A fresh set of developer eyes on that one might be able to crack it. 3) Can you provide any insight into who decides what software projects get worked on at WMF, and who I should reach out to if I want to try to get a dev or a team assigned to work on PageTriage? Should I be reaching out to a team's engineering manager, project manager (how do I figure out who is the PM of each team), VP of Product/VP of Engineering, Board of Trustees? I looked for CTO and didn't see it on the staff list, I assume CTO is currently vacant. Thanks a lot. Looking forward to your feedback. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:29, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Sure, feel free to! As for T238025, happy to take a look this weekend and see if I can figure anything out.

I'm also happy to provide any insight that I can into who decides what software projects get worked on at WMF, but I do need to stress that I can only do so in my capacity as a volunteer, and I'm certainly not an authority on how things work internally — for anything more official you'd do well to get in contact with one of the awesome Community Relations Specialists, as I am but a humble developer trying to help :)

For reference, our new CPTO is Selena Deckelmann (who will be starting soon iirc), but I'm not sure if she would be the best person to reach out to.

There is, as far as I'm aware, only one "official" channel for the community to direct WMF priorities — the Community Wishlist, run annually by the team I work for, Community Tech. This is probably the most effective way of getting work done on a project or tool, though I appreciate waiting and voting for that proposal isn't ideal in this situation (that being said, PageTriage was proposed and accepted for work in 2019).

Outside of this, you may get some movement speaking to the manager of the team who maintains the code — I believe in this case this is the Growth team, and you can find the team's project manager etc in this section. They have a guide on how they work with communities, which suggests posting on the team's talk page in the first instance. Perhaps having a chat with their Community Relations Specialist Trizek (WMF) would be a good first step?

Please do bear in mind that all teams will have their own workloads and priorities — TNT (talk • she/her) 23:11, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Merchandise Giveaway Nomination – Successful

A Wikimedia t-shirt!

Hey Novem Linguae,

You have been successfully nominated to receive a free t-shirt from the Wikimedia Foundation through our Merchandise Giveaway program. Congratulations and thank you for your hard work! Please email us at merchandisewikimedia.org and we will send you full details on how to accept your free shirt. Thanks!

On behalf of the Merchandise Giveaway program,

-- janbery (talk) 23:18, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Phab

Can you weigh in [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T310974 here}? You're not on the notifications list so until you post something you won;t know what's going on. There seems to some problem about wanting to NOINDEX all pages in all namespaces. They don't seem to understand that what we're asking for is mainspace only for indefinite NOINDEX until patrolled. Probably only going back no more than 6 months of the back end of the queue because with the backlog that will always exist there is no chance that the reviewers will be able to work through years of unpatrolled articles. Fortunately it's only (fairly) recently that the feed has mutated into a stream of junk from many non L1 English speaking regions. It's not, and never has been NPP's remit to patrol every one of the 54 mio non article pages. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:46, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Hey there. I've been on the notifications list, I think you have to click "View All 20 Subscribers" to see my name. Yes, I'll definitely weigh in, I think I can wrap my head around this one now. –Novem Linguae (talk) 05:55, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello

Hey Good day, I tried installing twinkle gadget or script but nothing seems to be working it would be really nice if you helped me out. Thanks so much in advance cheers. Uricdivine (talk) 05:15, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Howdy. I'll reply at WT:TWINKLE. –Novem Linguae (talk) 05:39, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello mate, please I would like to know how to rollback using twinkle. I would really appreciate, Cheers Uricdivine (talk) 14:49, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

@Uricdivine. Did you try visiting a WP:DIFF page such as Special:Diff/1098961012 or Special:MobileDiff/1098961012? The rollback links usually appear right around the text that says "Latest revision as of". But again, for Twinkle Mobile, you should contact those folks at their talk page for support as I am unfamiliar with mobile. In fact a quick look at their talk page, User talk:P.T.Đ/TwinkleMobile, appears to indicate that this feature has not been created yet for mobile. Courtesy ping P.T.Đ, since that talk page looks a little inactive. –Novem Linguae (talk) 18:14, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply... It seems rollback isn't available for mobile. Thanks again and happy editing Uricdivine (talk) 21:05, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

YGM

Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:19, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

NPP drive award

	The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar
	This award is given to Novem Linguae for 16 reviews in the July NPP backlog reduction drive. Your contributions played a part in the 9895 reviews that took place during the drive. Thank you for your contributions. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 09:16, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Useful tools

As a coord for NPP you might find this useful. I am no longer an admin so I can't give it to you but there are admins at WP:PERM who understand NPP. It would probably help to mention that you are a volunteer MediaWiki dev. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 21:38, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Hey Kudpung. Thanks so much for the idea of pursuing template editor, and for the expression of support. The culture around here seems to frown on folks that aren't active with their perms, so I am holding off for now. Perhaps I will apply later if I go through a phase where I am really active with templates. If only I had unlimited time! :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 23:18, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Typo

You might want to fix your signature at Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Coordination/2022 WMF letter. I noticed it was a bit off and figured you'd likely want to fix it. Clovermoss (talk) 03:47, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Page curation

The page curation tool hasn’t been showing up for a while now. I thought it would with time, but it hasn’t. It stopped working after it glitched when I used it to nominate an article for deletion (which didn't work right, btw). Any help? Any suggestions? R E A D I N G ^{Talk to the Beans?} 04:33, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Moved to Wikipedia:Page Curation/Suggested improvements § Page Curation toolbar not displaying

GT to FT

Hey Novem! I came across this discussion and was wondering if you would like to test this bot to promote Title (album) from GT to FT. Although I'm not sure if I should have approached Bryanrutherford0 first so I'll add a ping for him as well.--NØ 17:20, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

@MaranoFan. Hey there. Thanks for the message. The bot is only programmed to promote a non-GT/FT to GT/FT. It is not currently able to do GT to FT. The bot is summoned with a template and the good topic delegates know how to summon it. I'll leave this in their capable hands for now if that's OK. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 18:00, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

That helps. Thank you for the reply!--NØ 18:03, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated

Hi, I'm Curbon7. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Gloydius lateralis, and have marked it as unreviewed. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you.

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

Curbon7 (talk) 09:28, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

This was just a test for that thread at NPP/R. I re-reviewed it instantly so don't worry. Curbon7 (talk) 09:29, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Script

User:Lourdes/PageCuration.js located at User:Kudpung/vector.js is what does this. I don't think PageTriage adds any Special:NewPagesFeed links. sorry for undo, feel free to revert, that's the script and it does what it says. Lourdes wrote it. I couldn't write a script to save my life 😉 , but you're the expert. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:16, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Please see the notice at the top of the Anfal campaign Talk page

Hello. Regarding the title, at the top of the Talk page is a banner saying: "This page is not a forum for general discussion about Anfal campaign. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Anfal campaign at the Reference desk."

A comment made that is irrelevant to the discussion, and is making personal attacks and framing a slanderous narrative by a user who has harassed me in the past (some people can't get over grudges when they get proven wrong) has absolutely no relevance to improving the article. If you reverted the edit because this is something should be reported to ANI, then I will do so. This user has a bit of a track record [2] and is often asked to stop attacking users like in this recent diff. [3]

Could you please explain why such a comment which the banner at the Talk page says to remove is expected to stay?

Thanks! Saucysalsa30 (talk) 03:26, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Hey there. Deleting entire talk page comments of experienced users is rarely appropriate. If you think they crossed the line of WP:NPA, then ANI is certainly an option that you may want to explore. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 03:41, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

@Novem Linguae The Talk page banner is clear such comments don't belong. Also it says at the top of WP:NPA clearly: "Derogatory comments about other editors may be removed by any editor."

Can you explain why WP:NPA does not apply in this case? Saucysalsa30 (talk) 03:44, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Personal experience. Entire comments of experienced users should not be deleted except under extraordinary circumstances. I note that Buidhe also reverted you, so I am not in the minority here. You are free to solicit additional opinions at ANI. –Novem Linguae (talk) 03:46, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

@Novem Linguae Would you consider equating someone to Holocaust deniers for doing nothing other than pointing out American mainstream news sources, among other insults, to not be extraordinary? Just trying to understand why Wikipedia behavioral guidelines don't apply to evident disruptive behavior. Saucysalsa30 (talk) 03:52, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Please escalate to admins if needed. –Novem Linguae (talk) 23:46, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

@Novem Linguae Thank you, I have done so. You can see that here [4].

By the way, another editor directly called him out on his personal attack violations and a third observed it, so I'm no longer in a minority. Assuming you read the original comment in question [5], it is completely unrelated to the topic or Talk page in general and contains only slander, twisted mischaracterizations, and direct insults. If there's no further reason to leave that up, then, according to what WP:NPA and WP:TPG policies both mandate, there's likely no need for an off-topic, unprovoked comment with unacceptable behavior and the rest of the subthread created by TheTimesAreAChanging to remain. Saucysalsa30 (talk) 08:41, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Saucysalsa30. After reflecting on this a bit further, I would like to apologize for restoring your first talk page removal. I now believe keeping that comment was a net negative for the page, evidenced by the fact that I had to collapse the whole section. So that is my fault. I apologize. Lesson learned.

I stand behind my comments about the second talk page comment removal. Saucysalsa30, removing information on the mass killings is really bad. I think that one was civil enough to stay. I also believe that there are other sub-par behaviors occurring on that page, from multiple parties, but that is all above my pay grade. I will stay out of it.

I wish you the best. Happy editing. –Novem Linguae (talk) 07:54, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Hello @Novem Linguae, thanks for your discussion and further thoughtfulness about it. Thank you for your apology, and likewise apologies from me if I had transgressed against you as part of this, but honestly there's nothing for which you need to apologize. I appreciate that Wikipedia is a social networking platform where civility isn't a suggestion or put on a web page but never followed, but a core requirement and has formal policies around that. When there is an obviously off-topic comment making personal attacks like the one we're referencing, it's not expected nor satisfactory, as say to juxtapose, what is common on Twitter.

I agree the Talk page is a mess, and it's my judgement that those types of topics (broadly put, third-world conflict/atrocity topics) are very messy in both article and Talk pages, especially when what little original sourcing for significant claims and detail exists is problematic at best. I mean to pursue improvements on The 1619 Project, on which there's no shortage of available, independent, mutually exclusive sourcing, and that article is missing critical sourcing like touched upon on in this Talk page section. From an academic historical standpoint, it's intriguing one of the more researched and scrutinized historical conflicts still has deep academic divisions over led to the American Revolution, such as in this debate late last year[6]. Saucysalsa30 (talk) 07:03, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
	For having taken on the thankless task of being a coord of NPP and especially for your volunteer developer work at Phab for it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:53, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much Kudpung. I'm happy to help. I'm staying pretty fresh and excited so far :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 01:03, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

CSD on redirect

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T315206

Please don't tell anyone :) but I use Twinkle for deletion nominations when reviewing (mostly out of habit I guess). I noticed yesterday that a CSD on a redirect caused it to be marked reviewed. I'm sure you can quickly identify why. MB 15:07, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

@MB. Don't worry, your secret's safe with me :) There's a Twinkle preference for this at Wikipedia:Twinkle/Preferences#speedy, did it get ticked by mistake? Unticking it should solve. –Novem Linguae (talk) 15:15, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

My "Mark page as patrolled/reviewed when tagging (if possible)" option is NOT checked. MB 15:20, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

CSD on a redirect... Hmm... I'll have to hop on testwiki later and try to reproduce. Could be a twinkle bug. –Novem Linguae (talk) 15:23, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

P.S. Do you remember the article name? –Novem Linguae (talk) 15:26, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

This happened yesterday on Michael D. Williams. Since the CSD was declined, that page will be around for at least a week. MB 15:27, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Special:Log says that Paul W marked that page as reviewed on July 14 using the PageTriage tool while applying some maintenance tags. Is it possible that it was already marked as reviewed before you applied the CSD? –Novem Linguae (talk) 15:36, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Paul W Draftified Michael D. Williams on July 14. It was moved back to mainspace on July 16. Then on July 18, it was moved to Michael G. Williams. I was reviewing the redirect Michael D. Williams, and that was in the feed as a new redirect. MB 15:51, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

When Paul W tagged and draftified it on July 14, it was at Michael D. Williams. He used Evad's script, so the redirect to draftspace would have been deleted. The article was then at Draft:Michael D. Williams, and was next moved back to mainspace at Michael D. Williams on July 16. I don't see anything in the log showing it was patrolled after being recreated.

I also know the redirect was in the feed yesterday, and the check turned green after I CSDed it. This is all confusing.

I believe I saw this happen on also on Creating Orders of magnitude (mass too. That one doesn't have any unusual move history. I believe it was just plain created as a redirect and I CSDed it with Twinkle (22:49, August 11, 2022‎ according to my CSD log). It was marked as patrolled during the same minute (log here). Solving this one should be more straightforward. MB 01:09, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

That first example was too complicated for me to wrap my head around. But I was able to reproduce the second example. It appears to be a Twinkle bug. The patrol log entry is getting tagged as PageTriage instead of Twinkle because Twinkle is using the PageTriage API. Good find. I'll create a bug report and possibly a patch. –Novem Linguae (talk) 08:10, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Just kidding. After testing for half an hour, I think it's a PageTriage bug. I think because you're autopatrolled, you flipping the article from a redirect to an article is marking it as reviewed. –Novem Linguae (talk) 08:48, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for getting to the bottom of this. I don't really follow. Is this one bug (I see you opened one Phab that appears to be about Page Curation). I did not flip the article to a redirect. Paul W moved, who is autopatrol, to Draft. Naharat moved the article from Draft to article; they are also autopatrolled so it would have been marked as patrolled then. Then two days later, Rublamb moved it to a new title creating this redirect, which was in the queue as a new redirect needing review. If you have it all sorted out, don't bother explaining it. But is whatever happened here related to the second report, which has no moves? MB 17:50, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Hey MB. I'm not sure about that other stuff, but adding an RFD tag technically makes a redirect an article, because the page no longer starts with #REDIRECT [[abc]], and therefore the page no longer redirects. Hope that makes sense. –Novem Linguae (talk) 18:15, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

That makes perfect sense. My paradigm was that it was still a redirect. Actually, this bug then has no consequences. If the redirect (that is technically now an "article") is deleted due to the CSD, then it's just gone. If the CSD is declined and the tag is removed, it flips back to an redirect which causes it show up as a new redirect, right? So there is actually no problem. It's even a benefit because it's removed from the feed immediately.

I've noticed that when I RFD a redirect, it is also marked as patrolled. I was never sure why that is, but it's probably this same "bug". I was never concerned with that since RFD is like AFD and you can trust the outcome. I've never noticed a redirect in the queue that was at CSD or RFD, so perhaps all the reviewers who commonly patrol redirects (and sometimes CSD/RFD them) are autopatrolled. MB 02:37, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

If the CSD is declined and the tag is removed, it flips back to an redirect which causes it show up as a new redirect, right? It remains marked as patrolled in this case. Only redirect to article causes an unpatrol (unless you are autopatrolled). Article to redirect does not cause an unpatrol. So allowing placing a CSD tag to autopatrol the resulting article is a security bug and is worth fixing. Thank you for reporting it. Imagine this scenario: user creates redirect, autopatrolled patroller CSDs it, user removes CSD. We now have a patrolled redirect that likely needs deleting but that may not receive any additional scrutiny.

We are safe from them creating an article there, since them flipping redirect to article would unpatrol the page. That would be an even bigger security bug if that slipped through. But we are not safe from them making bad redirects.

I agree that RFD is identical to AFD and that it's OK for that one to be patrolled. –Novem Linguae (talk) 05:50, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Something odd

Your secret is safe with me too MB, but yesterday I came across something odd regarding redirects/recreations that I asked someone else about rather than bothering you two. I'm basically concerned that users who 'appear' to be the creators take the credit for it in their page creation log, especially when providing content is the least of their interests. Please you and NL take a look, it's a surely a glitch that can be remedied and prevent poor quality pages escaping into Googleland, and the wrong editors getting the credit for the mass creation of them. But it's complicated... Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:20, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Got any diffs I can take a look at, and additional description of what happened and what should have happened instead? –Novem Linguae (talk) 01:25, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Made just for you

	"Ass In High Gear Award"
	Your NPP work is extraordinaire, Behind-the-scenes tasks that few are aware; I'm one of the few who know what you do, As our needs arise; it is you we look to. And we're more than happy to buy you a beer, A reward for you keeping your ass in high gear! Atsme 💬 📧 21:53, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Atsme. Compliments, beer, and puppies. What more could a person want? Thank you very much for the good vibes :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:55, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Draft:PLM 020 T 7001-7005

Recently you rejected my submission for the PLM 020 7001-7005 article draft siting insufficient sources. Having taken your advice to search for extra references I’ve updated the article with extra data and accompanying sources and would like to now if the drafts current state is sufficient for it to be accepted? I am very new to creating articles so I don’t really now if this question is proper procedure or not. Anyway thanks for the advice and hope you have a good day ThatArmyDude (talk) 15:01, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

@ThatArmyDude. Hey there. I took a look, and I see citations to regular websites and to wikis. Neither of these is usually considered a reliable source on English Wikipedia. I typically look for citations to 3 newspapers or books that each have around 3 dense paragraphs of detail about the subject. I'd recommend adding more newspaper/book sources if you can. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:19, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

YGM

Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:01, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Patrolling with Twinkle

Here is something that seems inconsistent. When reviewing/patrolling redirects, I use the curation tool. If I want to add a Rcat (and its one Twinkle knows about), I click on the Tag/Twinkle tab. I add the Rcat and mark it reviewed at the same time by clicking those two choices, then hit "Submit Query" one time (done in four clicks). If the redirect is auto-created from a page move, it already has a Rcat (R from move). If I go to Twinkle to add a second Rcat, there is no choice to mark it reviewed, so I have to go back to the curation tool and review it there (two steps, five clicks total). Not a big deal, I can still move pretty fast. But still, why is the option to review these redirects missing? It seems to be related to the move. MB 03:33, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Moved to Wikipedia talk:Twinkle § Patrolling with Twinkle

September 2022

User:formal dude

The man called me a fuckface and to bite me

Template him please — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1FA0:8C0:42F6:0:5E:9652:5E01 (talk) 10:13, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

GOCE Drive Pointer

Hi, just a pointer, you didn't add your articles and word count to the part underneath your article list. Thanks, Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 19:59, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Updated. Thanks for the tip. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:40, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

BoT election

Please see this, FYI. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:44, 5 September 2022 (UTC)