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League table template

Hello. Perhaps you could point me to the WT:FOOTY discussion where consensus for including the templates in all club season articles was established. And after that, perhaps you could compare the current Championship table template against the actual league table for matches played 1 February. You'll find that it's been updated for one match played on that date, but not for the remainder.

After the templated version was added to 2013–14 Birmingham City F.C. season, I left it for several weeks, but got fed up with it never being properly updated, and reinstated the rather more relevant table as of the date of the club's last match, which the BCFC season articles had been using since 2011. I had been prepared to put up with a messy, MoS-non-compliant, live table, if there really was consensus to have it, but not if it's going to give the reader false information more often than not. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:16, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

I think you miss the point. Of course I could update the template myself, and if I'd pushed for its imposition on all season articles, I'd have felt morally obliged to keep it up to date. But we're all volunteers, and I choose to use my limited time elsewhere.

At the moment, the note below Template:2013–14 Football League Championship table says it's been "Updated to games played on 1 February 2014". It's now five days after that date, and the template has not been updated to games played on 1 February, so all Championship club season articles are currently displaying incorrect information. I'm not willing to use a template that, more often than not, gives false information to the reader because no-one, myself included, has the time or interest to keep it up-to-date.

As to the Birmingham season article, it never had a live table. Ever since it had a table fragment at all, it's been explicitly the table as of the date Birmingham last played. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:59, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for updating the Championship template, and I'm sorry if I came across as rude, or as blaming you or any of the other volunteers for it not being updated properly, that really isn't what I intended.

The problem is that an encyclopedia shouldn't be prioritising form ahead of content: enforcing a standard format when the information being shown is wrong really isn't an improvement on having lots of different methods of displaying accurate information. I've nothing against the template concept, but its implementation was rushed, and there certainly aren't enough people involved in maintaining it. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:10, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Marquinhos

Italics are standard protocol for newspaper titles. The Almightey Drill (talk) 22:31, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Discussion about "Template:Cop"

There is a discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_February_15#Template:Cop about the second nomination of Template:Cop in which you may be interested. --Jax 0677 (talk) 06:32, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Discussion about "Template:Wprk"

There is a discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_February_8#Template:wprk about the nomination of Template:wprk in which you may be interested. --Jax 0677 (talk) 09:16, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Infoboxes

Please stop removing acceptable information from infoboxes - notation of the the team that knocks a club out of a cup competition is perfectly acceptable information as can be seen here, here, here - all of which have been accepted as Good Articles with it's inclusion. There is no compunction to include that notation but there is also no reason to remove it if it exists. Please stop making diruptive edits. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 08:35, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Please take a second and think about the tone you are using. Just because I try and improve wikipedia does not mean my edits are "diruptive", that sort of wording will come back and bite you. The fact is that infoboxes are very often too big with a lot of unneccesary info and Wikipedia:Infobox templates#Purpose of an infobox clearly states that we should keep the info to a minimum: "When considering any aspect of infobox design, keep in mind the purpose of an infobox: to summarize key facts in the article in which it appears. The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance. Of necessity, some infoboxes contain more than just a few fields; however, wherever possible, present information in short form, and exclude any unnecessary content.".

You should know I will most likely take this furter to find some sort of consensus. No Premier League article has this info and I see no use at all for it. I am sure that if I look I can find just as many GA's without that unneccesary information. It should be mentioned in text and not infoboxes. QED237 (talk) 11:12, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Here are some GA's without the info 2007–08 Arsenal F.C. season, 2005–06 Arsenal F.C. season. QED237 (talk) 11:24, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

RE: Arteta

"Please stop attacking other editors, as you did on Mikel Arteta. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia."

no — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.121.45 (talk) 15:42, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes you should stop. I do not accept personal attacks like "retard". QED237 (talk) 16:47, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Your recent editing history at Mikel Arteta shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. GiantSnowman 17:58, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman:, Yes I know, I am so sorry. Had a lot on my mind and many things to do, so in my head I had not reverted three times until I counted them. I stopped as soon as I saw it. So sorry it will not happen again. Dont think the template is really nheccesary since I stopped. We should not template regulars? QED237 (talk) 18:14, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Templating regulars for things like 3RR should not be necessary, but it sometimes is. Sorry if it seems harsh but I cannot ignore your part in this, especially after I blocked the IP. GiantSnowman 18:28, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Discussion about "Template:Wpcm"

There is a discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_February_25#Template:Wpcm about the nomination of Template:Wpcm in which you may be interested. --Jax 0677 (talk) 07:30, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Archiving your talk page

To reduce the size of your talk page, you may wish to visit WP:ARCHIVE. --Jax 0677 (talk) 07:35, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, I was actually thinking about doing that but never got around to actually do it. I will look i to it soon. QED237 (talk) 10:25, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Article Nacka FF

Hello. I see that you've blanked the article, apparently for a deletion request. As far as I know, however, a blanking is only considered a deletion request if the author, who is the main contributor to the article, blanks his own article. Since you have not created the page, I suggest that you bring up the matter at WP:RFD instead. I've reverted your edit for now. Thanks! KJ ^{click here} 00:40, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

League table template

Hello, Yes I think it is a good idea, like you said for the smaller teams the table does not get update on the current season page, and with this template it will automatically do it. It is currently being used on Template:2013–14 Eredivisie table & Template:2013–14 Eredivisie table/p. Like I said before, Yes I think it is a good idea and would suggest to create the templates for La Liga. Skyblueshaun (talk) 09:41, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

2013–14 FC Schalke 04 season

That isn't an up–to–date club season article. I have change the format that I would use. I don't add friendly matches anymore. I have it separated by each competition the club is in. I added a "background" section as the first section and moved the transfers sub–section up with the "background" section. I also have combined the the date and kick–off time columns in the match report table. I have eliminated the "city" column from the same table. I have deleted the "table" section in the match report table and put it in it's own seperate table in it's own sub–section. I have also started to combined minutes played with the appearance and goal table for the squad statistics. The 2013–14 FK Austria Wien season article is an example of how I currently do it. The issue with Italia2006 started here. The very first thing he says to Werner100359, who looks like doesn't have a whole lot of experience, "Please stop editing this article..." In my opinion, Italia2006 has been rude to me in the past and what he said to Werner100359 was rude. The debate seems to have moved over to commas. I have pointed out that there is more than one user who uses commas. Then Werner100359 quoted Italia2006 on my talk page. Kingjeff (talk) 03:58, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't like the footballbox collabsible. I will never use it. Kingjeff (talk) 15:08, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

No one cares what you like or don't like. Your articles will be gradually converted to the proper model. Honestly, stop. Italia2006 (talk) 00:05, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

2013–14 Birmingham City F.C. season

Hello. We've been through this before, as you may or may not remember. See #League table template above. Despite my asking you to point me to the WT:FOOTY consensus that required the template to be used, you couldn't didn't. Nevertheless, I have not removed the league table template from the article, despite its having regularly been one or two, or even worse one-and-a-half, matchdays out of date.

Even if there is consensus at WT:FOOTY to use the template for the "current" league table, I'm afraid you can't insist on the removal of the league table as of the day of Birmingham's last game, which is not necessarily the same as the table as of the last Championship matchday. Thank you for your understanding. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:12, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

To be honest, the discussions at WT:FOOTY got enthusiasm from template-enthusiasts, an attempt at constructive comment from a few, some of which was ignored, and general indifference from most people. If you think that's consensus, then fine, perhaps it is.

If I were introducing some particular item of code on Wikipedia, I sincerely hope I'd make sure there were enough people interested enough to update the thing completely at the end of each matchday or thenabouts before trying to enforce its use. I don't think it's constructive insisting on us using the thing and then telling us "well, if it's not updated, do it yourself". It does the readers no service if the articles are worse with it than without it. And some are.

But that's by the by. I'm not sure what your problem is with my including a table as of the club's last matchday. Ever since the BCFC season articles included a league table extract, that's what it's been. I'm not including it instead of your template, but as well. You can't really think our readers are so easily confused that they can't tell the difference between a table in a section headed "League table (part) as of the date of Birmingham's last game" and a table in a section headed "Current league table (part)", surely? cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:14, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

As often happens, the template is updated after the early game on a Saturday. So for several hours at a minimum, it reads "Updated to games played on 1 March 2014" or whatever, when it actually means "Updated to games played at 12.45 on 1 March 2014 but not the later ones". And, as also often happens, it isn't updated again for somt time, perhaps because potential updaters glance at it, see it's "Updated to games played on 1 March 2014", and don't check to see if it actually has been.

On your second point, please remember that we're talking about the Birmingham season article, not the Championship season. The trivial answer, though with a valid point seeing as I'm not advocating excluding the "current" table, is that with both versions in the article, the reader would get the chance to directly compare how much difference your hypothetical three-week hiatus had made to their league standing... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:39, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

WP:FPL

Why are you saying the link [1] doesn't work? It works fine here, and has been in the article for ages to reference the league for Australia. And why remove New Zealand? If you do that, why not remove the MLS and NASL entries for Canada, which surely are the same thing? Nfitz (talk) 22:37, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

It works now that you gave it to me here but it did not work at the article. Just showed "page can not be shown", must have been some minor error you did with the link. Otherwise I guess it is okay. QED237 (talk) 22:42, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I went back to the version I created and it was fine. Must have been a web hiccup. Okay, link works. But what is the objection to the actual content? Nfitz (talk) 22:52, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

To be honest after taking a second look I might have been to fast, but you should still have put explanation at the talkpage before you re-added the information. But I can agree with you now that the link is working. QED237 (talk) 22:58, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm not used to discussing what seems to be a minor non-contentious edits at Talk on any other page. And discussion at Talk on this page in particular never seem to come to a resolution. And now I'm stuck, because now when I reverted your edit, a 3rd editor came in, simply on the basis that I'm disagreeing with 2 other editors, and seems to have reverted it on principle, without even considering the content ... Nfitz (talk) 23:06, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

It would have been fine if you just gave an explanation on the talkpage. However I restored your edit now and hope it works out. Have a nice day. QED237 (talk) 23:09, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Hopefully it avoids a 2-week debate at talk, which at the end of the day, no once can figure out what the conclusion was ... :) Nfitz (talk) 23:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I have started a discussion on the FPL Talk page, which should have happened in the first place. Thanks, JMHamo (talk) 11:55, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Negredo

Hi. Álvaro Negredo never played for the first team of Real Madrid. He was repurchased and resold immediately. The story is explained in your timeline, it is not necessary appear in the infobox. Thank you. Gringoladomenega (talk) 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Just because he did not play does not mean it should not be listed. Per WP:BRD you should take it to talk before re-reverting and this is second time in a month you do this. Please discuss at article talkpage (or go to WT:FOOTY). QED237 (talk) 22:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Kingjeff

I think we're starting to have a serious problem on our hands. He won't use the consensus-decided model because he "doesn't like it?" Are you kidding me? The rudeness he references actually has to do with previous incarnations of the same argument. He's just upset he's wrong. How should we go about fixing these articles? Italia2006 (talk) 00:08, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I dont know how we should go about? Perhaps discuss at WT:FOOTY with big risk ManUtd guy will say collapsible is no good or edit the articles ourselves? I am afraid I dont have much time, my time on wiki is limited nowadays and I have a lot of things to do. QED237 (talk) 00:13, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I think there may be a case for vandalism if he's constantly going against what is clearly the consensus-decided format and layout and insists on doing what "he likes" (which gets more ridiculous every time I read it). Italia2006 (talk) 00:21, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, what troubles me is that I have not read any "consensus" in written for more than the fact that everyone uses the collabsible boxes. Otherwise the ManUtd article would have been changed as well. QED237 (talk) 00:25, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

You have to distinguish between de facto and de jure consensuses. This is more de facto than de jure. If it comforts you I'll see to the Manchester United article being converted as well. For one thing, I'll ensure the 2014–15 article is begun with the collapsible football boxes. Italia2006 (talk) 00:30, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Okay that sounds great. Unfortunately as I said I dont have much time (develoing new league table templates, spain next) and I have a lot on my mind outside wiki, but I will keep an eye out if you want/need any help. QED237 (talk) 00:33, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Qed237, The club season article that Italia2006 had problems with was the 2013–14 FC Red Bull Salzburg season. I didn't set the format for that article. So, please don't make out like I go around arbitrarily deciding to impose my own format on other users. Please show me if there has been any consensus about the collapsible boxes. When I start a club season article, it's I, the creator of the article, that decides the format. If another user takes issue with me about my format, I am willing to use consensus. here. By the way, I am absolutely insulted that I wasn't informed about this discussion about me. Kingjeff (talk) 02:59, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Oh yeah you're absolutely insulted I'm sure. You posted on this page discussing a topic which I'm a part of without mentioning me, but I don't feel insulted because it's not a big deal. Italia2006 (talk) 21:01, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

I did not know that the creator sets format for article. That is a problem since editors can start articles way too soon just to set "their format". It would be some warring who is first. And I am sorry if you feel offended, I do never start discussions about other editors, but this time I replied and perhaps I should not have done that. Sorry. QED237 (talk) 11:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Not in an authoritarian sense. But when the creator's creates the article, he has made a decision on what format to use. There isn't much an editor can do if it doesn't go against Wikipedia policy. Consensus would be the only way. If it does violate policy, then you can make changes without even making consensus. Kingjeff (talk) 02:40, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Agreed, Kingjeff. Italia2006, there has never been a proper discussion about what format club season articles should adopt. In fact, the earliest club season articles used tables, just as I did when I started on the Manchester United season articles. If anything, the articles that use collapsible boxes should be converted to use tables. But until such a discussion occurs, there should be no mass changes to any set of club season articles, especially if the only rationale you're using for the change is WP:IDONTLIKEIT. – PeeJay 11:23, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Not really, no. Tables are the antiquated form for articles. How much clearer can it be when easily 95% of the season articles use them? If we're talking about rationale, I have no idea what your rationale would be for converting the dominant form. Italia2006 (talk) 16:12, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

In what way are they antiquated? Tables are not obsolete, nor do the collapsible boxes provide any additional info that is actually relevant to the articles they are used in. No one is suggesting that any mass changes be made - in fact, I said that there shouldn't be any until a proper discussion takes place. Please, if you want to make sweeping changes, discuss them first. – PeeJay 17:30, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

19 of 20 Premier League club articles use the format I've been talking about. The one that doesn't is the one you edit. Bias much? Italia2006 (talk) 21:01, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Also, I really wish you would've read this — "This is what I'm talking about. The Manchester United article uses commas because it doesn't use Footballbox collapsible. The reason I haven't argued with that editor is because that format for Manchester United's season articles goes back decades."

— before commenting here. Kingjeff didn't create articles with his own format, he converted them. I understand YOU using the format that you do because it's been in place for such a long time. But take a look at 2011–12 FC Bayern Munich season and you'll see that Kingjeff has done this only recently and has no legitimate reason to do so. Italia2006 (talk) 21:08, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Prem 2014-15

Hey QED. Thanks for pointing out my mistake there, I was being somewhat lazy with checking my facts. However, I was still correct to add City as confirmed to be in the 2014-15 season. Please also observe from your own source that Norwich and West Brom can only score 58 points apiece. They are also due to play each other, thus guaranteeing that one or both must fail to reach 57 points and thus City are confirmed safe for the following season.

I actually ran a few scenarios on a PL prediction table which allows you to predict scores and see how it affects the table. There are actually so many teams down the bottom on just a few more points than Sunderland, and yet who each must play other bottom-half teams so many times, that I struggled to even get City to finish below 10th. Simply put, there are far too many dropped points from bottom-end clubs playing each other for City to not be safe. Falastur2 ^Talk 22:44, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Okay I understand, you are most likely correct. What puzzles me is that the source (not mine per say, I didn't even like the article being created so soon) still has City as "lowest possible finish 18th" which woiuld mean relegation, and that this is the source. So adding City goes directly against the source and we should follow source (even if wrong as this time). Perhaps there is a better source out there?. QED237 (talk) 22:51, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I would say that this is because they didn't calculate all the different scenarios, they just - as, in fairness, most do - calculated lowest possible finishes based simply on how many points each team could score, and not on whether it was possible for all of these to happen at once. The problem is it's actually really quite difficult to come up with an algorithm which calculates these scenarios, especially when you're talking about more than just two or three teams playing each other and wrecking these maximum points tallies. In the last 5 or so seasons I've tried a number of different methods, and each one comes up lacking. For this exact reason, most websites simply won't even offer a "lowest possible finish" stat, as it's virtually impossible to calculate manually and would be far too complex to be worth the effort of coming up with a computer solution for. Honestly, you're lucky to have even found that one website - regardless of the fact that it, simply put, is wrong. Falastur2 ^Talk 23:12, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

That is so true, but what should we do next? If we say this is accepted to add man city soon other teams will be added without them being above 18th in "lowest possible finish". And as you said the math is fairly complicated so it is the same discussion of next day sceanrios and WP:OR that has been on WT:FOOTY earlier. We should not add anything if we dont have source for it, even if I know you are right. QED237 (talk) 23:34, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

It's hard to say. Possibly the best thing is to do what has previously always been done - simply wait until the simple, if slightly less accurate, method of ruling a team as qualified applies - and only include City when at least three teams individually cannot catch them, which is what you were doing before. I'd be happy simply ignoring the whole "must be supported by an outside website" thing here because I don't think it applies in this situation, but I understand that I am in the minority with this view so I won't try to fight for it with any real energy. Honestly, even though the chances of people exploiting it are low, you're probably right that it's simply not worth letting it fly.

Let's not make this conversation about something it's not by bringing up WP:OR though. WPOR is probably my most hated thing about Wikipedia, because 99% of Wikipedia users don't understand what it means. WPOR is not about compiling different numerical statistics, because mathematics by very nature is either correct or incorrect, and in a case like this where you know all the info you need, you can comprehensively prove or disprove anything given only time and mathematical ability. If three people wear red ties and there are eight people in the room, it is not original research to calculate that 8 - 3 = 5 people are not wearing ties. Nor is it original research to, say, total up the total number of goals scored by a team in the Premier League era, or calculate when a team is safe from relegation. Just because no-one has printed the maths on an external website does not mean that the maths is inherently unprovable. If no website in the world contained the sum "1 + 1 = 2" it would not mean that we could not verify that that sum was correct on Wikipedia. No, WPOR is about stopping people from, say, finding that sales of French-made pop albums had gone down since 2012 (I made that up, for the record) and then making an article called "The Decline of the French Music Industry", or watching the news about the current situation in the Ukraine and editting the article on the Russian military to talk about how Russian foreign policy now involved using military forces disguised as local paramilitaries to forcibly annex neighbouring states. Both of these have some basic facts which imply they could possibly be true, but it is not provable that they are actually accurate, and it is Original Research to claim that they are.

Sorry, WPOR did not need that long paragraph dedicated to it, but honestly it's one of my serious pet peeves. Falastur2 ^Talk 21:47, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Well written and I must say I can agree with you. There is something about routine calculation in OR i believe which has been debated in next day scenarios with a lot of boolean algebra wheter that is routine calc or not, but I guess this is not what OR was for. If you want to add Man City I wont stop you, but I suggest we wait. It is up to you. QED237 (talk) 22:03, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Mesut Ozil Update

Hello, I was going through stats of Mesut Ozil and found them not updated. Hence, I made some edits to the stats table for Mesut Ozil based upon the link number 90. I just saw that you have reverted those edits. Can you please verify the edits and make the necessary updates? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pushkar.np (talk • contribs) 11:56, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

fb and fbw templates

The templates I mentioned on Kante4's page are {{fb}} and {{fbw}}. If substitution is used with these templates, instead of substituting a wikilink, it substitutes {{flag}} with three parameters ( | altlink = women's national football team | altvar = football | mw = women's ) for the fbw template. I had simply put a wikilink and {{flagicon}} which was replaced by the fbw template here. I feel if the wikilink is a proper one, there is no reason to replace it with a template that transcludes another template. EddieV2003 (talk) 16:05, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Costa

I'm having more experience of the user who reverted my clarifications without explanation. He then reverted my copyedit to an intro paragraph, changing it from constant gerund to past tenses with a very poorly written note that I was, to paraphrase, inserting the entire article into that paragraph. I think WP:COMPETENCE comes into play here as I am not convinced of his English language ability. The Almightey Drill (talk) 21:33, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Stop press, he's backed down now. The Almightey Drill (talk) 21:34, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I will back down but he has to start learning about edit warring, it is not one warning in the past....QED237 (talk) 21:42, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Re

Man, stop threatening me and wanting to intimidate me, I get me with another user.--User:Gringoladomenega (talk) 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I is not about intimidiation you have to learn about wikipedia rules. ONe revert than you should discuss at talkpage. You should now that being warned a couple of times in the past. QED237 (talk) 21:43, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Friend, I already did what you said. Now, no need to reverse everything that I edit. In Giovani dos Santos, this (my) is the original edition, until an anonymous user with IP started to change. Leave this way it has always been thus. Thank you.--User:Gringoladomenega (talk) 7 March 2014 (UTC)

The IP has the right to edit to. You can not do three reverts for any reason except clear vandalism. Please read the info in the wanrnings you have recieved. QED237 (talk) 22:01, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I report for vandalism? You think I'm that? Look at my other contributions. Sempe'm collaborating and reverting vandals. Have you explained to me about the situation and all right, we were talking about it, it was not necessary.--User:Gringoladomenega (talk) 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I told you not to revert again and ýou did. You clearly havent got the message and you will be blocked. QED237 (talk) 22:08, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Giovani dos Santos

Hi there QED, AL from Portugal "here",

i did not revert anyone at this article, only consulted the page as the other fellow user asked me to. Sincerely (it's always the best policy) i do agree with him, at least in box, what's the limit for playing positions in the box?

In Giovani's case, methinks FORWARD would suffice marvelously, but that's just me. I also agree the fellow user "at hand" should use more summaries and discuss things more thoroughly, but he's in no way a vandal, no siree.

Happy editing/weekend --AL (talk) 04:22, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Speaking about a related matter (Diego Costa), messaged the other user that has been involved in the articles recently, about having all my changes reverted (and i do write summaries, unlike Gringo), my message was summarily removed without one word of reply, but he did leave the interaction between himself, you and a BLOCKED user, so in his eyes i'm worse than a WP disruptive editor, fair enough. Don't know why people act like that towards me (Almigthey is not the first to do so, nor is he the fifth or the tenth), really saddens me.

Attentively --AL (talk) 20:17, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

• Second message removed ONE MINUTE before i wrote it! Could you please mediate QED? I'd really appreciate it. Tell him you're writing on my behalf, and that i sincerely apologize if any of my words were viewed as aggressive or bigot (original message here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:The_Almightey_Drill&diff=prev&oldid=598707211). --AL (talk) 20:19, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Many MANY thanks :) --AL (talk) 21:05, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Saad Abu 78

He's been warned for copyvio, if he does it again I will block. I've removed the admin icon and told him not to repeat. GiantSnowman 13:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

I've blocked him for copyright. GiantSnowman 15:16, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Landskrona BoIS

Why do You keep on edit Allsvenskan ??? The best position that (my team) Landskrona BoIS ever has achieved is 3rd, in 1937/38. Please see https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fotbollsallsvenskan_1937/1938. At this time goal ratio was used to differ teams with the same points, not goal difference. And Helsingborgs 36/27 > 40/31. This is very well known, and not forgotten among supporters of Landskrona BoIS. Specially since it was their main local rivals Helsingborg that benefited from the goal ratio system. Are You some kind of Sock Puppet for Reckless ? (Sorry, but I have to ask) Boeing720 (talk) 21:41, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Timestamps

Hi mate. I see what you're trying to do by reverting people who don't update timestamps when they update stats, but wouldn't it make more sense for you to simply check the stats and update the timestamp yourself, then leave a message on the offending editor's talk page? It would save us from having out-of-date articles and might not discourage new editors from contributing. (I realise I'm probably guilty of doing that myself in the past, but I hope that doesn't preclude me from giving advice!) – PeeJay 00:28, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Qed237. You have new messages at Sintaku's talk page.
Message added 15:57, 16 March 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

~~ Sintaku ^Talk 15:57, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Red Bull Salzburg

Hi, I was wrong. Salzburg isn't the champion yet. --Davidsousa1 (talk) 22:54, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Please block

195.249.52.234

Thanks. 85.243.219.108 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 11:39, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I am not an administrator so I can not block anyone. If this IP is previously warned you could try report to WP:ARV or otherwise give the editor a warning (if they made some sort of action that you can warn them for). QED237 (talk) 12:12, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Regarding undo done in 2013-14 CL

Hi there. Just confused when the scores in there are "2" and "7" in the aggregate columns. ~~Deepak (talk) 18:05, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Okay, those are the match numbers. QED237 (talk) 21:54, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

March 2014

No name calling, friend, don't be so precious. :) "...it's important to be mindful of the feelings of your fellow editors, who may be frustrated by certain types of interaction. While you probably didn't intend any offense, please do remember that Wikipedia strives to be an inclusive atmosphere." But please feel free to follow your own advice. Ribaldry (talk) 15:43, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Timestamp

Cheers for the advice and the threat, big dog. Ribaldry (talk) 15:38, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

As I said no reason for name calling so please stop. QED237 (talk) 15:41, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

And as I said... It's a term of affection. I'm just at a loss to understand why you'd revert someone's edits entirely over the singular and rather small issue of a timestamp. It would have saved us both time if you had simply left a message on my talk page informing me I had failed to update it, allowing me to swiftly correct my mistake without having to re-do my edits. If you could brush up on your interaction with other users I'm certain it would make Wikipedia a better place. :) Ribaldry (talk) 15:51, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

What kind of edit is that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2014_FIFA_World_Cup&diff=600944593&oldid=600939847 ? Seriously? MarcosPassos (talk) 15:55, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

"And the WP:OVERLINK is quite clear I think, no need to link to all cities", we must use the same standards which were used on the other World Cup pages. There's no need to be "reinventing the wheel". MarcosPassos (talk) 16:22, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

"We should make sure that current articles follow wikipedia guidelines.", Exactly! Note that all Football Championships (World Cup, Champions league etc etc) are following the same guidelines, don't change it again. MarcosPassos (talk) 16:28, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Julian Green

You reverted a bunch of edits referencing an inaccurate criterion. Get your facts straight and reference the proper guidelines before reverting a ton of information. His change of nationality is binding effectively ENDING his German national team career. He can't switch even if he wants to. You then followed that up by deleting a bunch of factual SOURCED info. All of that is pertinent and allowed under WP FOOTY. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hellas12345 (talk • contribs) 01:01, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Template

Regarding my edits to the 2013-14 Championship table, first time I didn't notice that the rankings didn't change along with the points and the second time I had to leave mid-edit and I figured it was better to do some than none at all, especially considering that everyone else on Wikipedia hadn't updated the table in a while. I wasn't trying to be purposely disruptive. Imlikeaboss (talk) 06:36, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

IP comments

It's certainly unpleasant, the best thing to do is ignore it. Revert and report - see WP:DENY which gives advice on how to deal with editors like that. I have deleted it from the history and warned them about it. If it happens again I'll block. Any further problems let me know! GiantSnowman 19:17, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Redirects for discussion

There are several redirects for discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_March_27 in which you may be interested. --Jax 0677 (talk) 16:06, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Chelsea FC league position edit

So... because the chosen external source is incorrect your wiki playbook that you blindly apply suggests to you that the best course of action is to repeat the error even though it's obviously wrong (and even contradicts other parts of the same page). Well done. Slow clap. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.255.90.81 (talk) 03:10, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

This is not my decision there is consensus. Please read the talkpage and discussion at Talk:2013–14 Liverpool F.C. season. The fact is that there are no such things as rounds in Premier League so we use "position by matchday" which is the league position of the team the day they played their match. In this case the position they had when all matches was played on saturday. This is also what the source provides so there is nothing wrong with the source. Please dont edit against source again. Thank you. QED237 (talk) 22:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

April 2014

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2013–14 Champions League

This was one of the unconstructive edits I was trying to revert. The other was removal of a ref. Too big of a net. Forgot that the first set of game day 2 matches went today and valid updates might be happening. Thanks for fixing it. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:30, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Okay no problem, I had already reverted those changes and was working on fixing the rest. There had been some disruptive edits by IPs but also corrected by other IPs. It is easy do forget such things so no worries. QED237 (talk) 22:36, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Champions League Qualification.

Hello, I might be wrong to be honest. When I last edited the 2013–14 Gibraltar Premier Division page it was notified that Lincoln Red Imps FC have won the league so that's why I posted it on the first qualifying round of the 2014–15 UEFA Champions League. --Skyblueshaun (talk) 22:12, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Yeah I like to keep on track of all the top European leagues. What do you mean what page do I use and about the link below not being updated. Cheers --Skyblueshaun (talk) 23:09, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

If you have a look at the history of the page, you will notice that I am not actually the one who does these updates, but I believe the updated table source I have is HERE. --Skyblueshaun (talk) 07:59, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Live Scoring

why does Wikipedia disallow live scoring? I believe it adds to viewership as users can come to Wikipedia directly to be updated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chazaloe (talk • contribs) .

I have answered on your talkpage. QED237 (talk) 21:02, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Redirects for discussion

There are several redirects for discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_April_14 in which you may be interested. --Jax 0677 (talk) 03:24, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Fb round2 2012–13 FA Cup 4R

The article Fb round2 2012–13 FA Cup 4R has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Completely inexplicable redirect

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. IagoQnsi (talk) 22:35, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Yaya Toure

The information I added needs to be in the article. You are right about it not being an award, but you can't shun its relevancy. Versace1608 (Talk) 13:38, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Then source it and add it in the prose and not as individual honour. QED237 (talk) 15:22, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

I created an awards and nominations section and added the information to the section. Versace1608 (Talk) 19:20, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Hull City / UEFA Europa League

The easiest way to understand how Hull City is not, at least yet, qualified to the UEFA Europa League is reading the redistribution rules at 2014-15 UEFA Europa League. There you will understand that there is a way Hull City cannot qualify, which is if Hull City lose the final AND Arsenal fail the Champions. In that case, Arsenal would qualify to Europa League both through league and cup. So, the cup berth would get vacated and would be assumed by another league team, NOT Hull City. Hull City will go to Europe either if they win the cup OR if they lose AND Arsenal go to the Champions. If after reading those rules you still have questions, please discuss it.--2.82.105.184 (talk) 22:45, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Andrés Iniesta

official matches: Andrés Iniesta in the national team of Spain is 94 because the friendly against Equatorial Guinea was suspended by FIFA SoulGooner (talk) 17:48, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Possible block evasion

I agree, this looks to be a case of WP:DUCK - but I think we need you need a formal WP:SPI to confirm as there is just slightly too much doubt. GiantSnowman 11:41, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Adrián López Álvarez

Hi there QED, AL "here",

please (PLEASE) bear with me on this one! My reasoning is the following: if you are going to refer to a given competition's season (in this case the 2013/14 Champions League), you most definitely have to refer to the competition proper, it's more arranged and logical i think.

I apologize for the English error ("win it"), although i fail(ed) to see where the gross mistake is (a football game is a thing, so i thought "it" was accurate), i have already reached a compromise in the said part of storyline.

Attentively, from Portugal --AL (talk) 11:56, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

• Totally correct my friend, you can say the most obvious "win at Stamford Bridge", but also "win at Chelsea". --AL (talk) 12:24, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

AS Monaco tournamentqualified to qualified.

Hello, Why did you re-put the tournamentqualified next to AS Monaco, Mathmetically Monaco have now qualified for the 2014–15 UEFA Champions League#Group stage. --Skyblueshaun (talk) 20:42, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes thank you for pointing that out. --Skyblueshaun (talk) 21:26, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Revert

I didn't update the league, I only updated this season's league place. Mattythewhite (talk) 13:25, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Premier League

Hello Qed237, that is why we have multiple people editing an article. I'm sure you have also missed parts of an edit. Everyone inevitably misses a part here and there. In the near future, simply correct my edit or add whatever I was missing.

Regards,

--Ovinod (talk) 23:42, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

It is up to you whether you want to believe me or not. As you can see I updated multiple parts of the article, and in regards to it being the part I liked, that is untrue. I'm not a devoted Arsenal fan nor ever will be. If you are one of the editors that updates the entire section, then congrats to you. We are all different, otherwise this world would be no fun, won't you agree?

--Ovinod (talk) 23:56, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

League tables

Hi, I know you are interested in "semi-automatic updated" league tables through templates. Over the last season I have noticed two mayor problems: 1) People don't update the helper template and 2) People mix up switch statements. To counter this, I have designed {{2014–15 Eredivisie table}} in a different way by separating the standings and lay-out. Look through the template for all details, but in effect I made the following changes:

1. The layout is controlled from the subpage Template:2014–15 Eredivisie table/layout, this would not typically need to be changed (only possibly near the end of the season). This also means people would not so easily break the syntax accidentally. It will also be easier to spot what was changed.
2. The actual standings are controlled from the main template with numbered parameters. It will be more easy to understand for most editors and line breaks don't carry on in the table. It also negates the need for the position helper template, because the team positions are defined explicitly already.

I do think this new set-up will be more manageable, because only one file needs to be updated throughout the season. Only time will tell whether there would be other issues arising. It might be worthwhile considering to create other league tables in a similar manner for the 2014–15 seasons. CRwikiCA talk 19:09, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Acceptable date formats

Hi, Regarding your Banana191 Talk page message, May 3 (US style) is an acceptable format per Acceptable date formats so would not be considered disruptive editing. Thanks, JMHamo (talk) 20:40, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

The article in question is british article (not US), that clearly states "use dmy-dates". I just notified him about that as I hav in the past in edit summaries but he refuses to listen so I went to his talk. He is mad at me for telling him to do, because I have also told him to please shorten his sentences (could be 5 rows long, once with 8 commas). No reason for him to act the way he did on my talk regardless. QED237 (talk) 20:45, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Fair point. It is the English Premier League and not US soccer. JMHamo (talk) 20:49, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

otherwise

Where is the otherwise anyway??

I am sorry, but I dont know what you mean? QED237 (talk) 09:18, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

I left a clarification on your talkpage. QED237 (talk) 09:24, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Romanian teams qualifying for UEFA Europa League.

Thanks you for pointing that one out, It seemed a bit of a 50/50 situation as Steaua & Astra meet in the final but both teams have already qualified for a European competition. The note on the 2014–15 UEFA Europa League page is as follows "Astra Giurgiu will enter the third qualifying round instead of the second qualifying round if they win the 2013–14 Cupa României. If instead Steaua București win the cup, the runners-up of the 2013–14 Liga I (Petrolul Ploiești or Astra Giurgiu) will enter the third qualifying round." Skyblueshaun (talk) 08:35, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

James Wilson

Do you really think the details about Wilson's goals are that relevant to the article? In the grand scheme of things, what difference does it make how they were scored? – PeeJay 23:00, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps not the details, but his first goal in PL is definately notable. No one should remove content wothout explanation. QED237 (talk) 23:14, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Agreed, the goal is notable, but the specifics of how it was scored aren't. But yes, you're right that info shouldn't be removed without explanation. Would you mind if I removed it if I supplied an explanation such as the one above? – PeeJay 00:10, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

No I would not mind at all, feel free to remove the details. QED237 (talk) 00:12, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Reliable sources of Premier League Statistics

Hello QED237. Since you are arbitrating on the analysis I've made of the Premier League scorers since 1992-93 will you tell me what sources of data you consider to be reliable and if checked and cited you will allow my edits to stand? On what authority are you able to determine the reliability of the sources quoted? --Ratchet8865 (talk) 15:37, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

I've thoroughly checked these 2 sources before making my assertion that:

This was also the first time any club had 3 players (Sergio Agüero, Edin Džeko and Yaya Touré) each score more than 15 league goals in a season in the Premier League era.

I haven't been able to find any other online sources which go back further than a few years of PL history.

Gibraltar

Hello Qed237, do you know who is risen from the gibraltar second division in the premiere division and relegation is out? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DjTakido (talk • contribs)

Hi, sorry I do not know that. I will see later if I can find the info, unfortunately I have to be away from computer an hour or so. QED237 (talk) 22:02, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi again, from what I have found (see this link and this link) Fc Brittania XI has won 2nd division and earned promotion. According to this season 2013–14 Gibraltar Premier Division Gibraltar Phoenix are relegated. That is all I know. You will have to google it/look at twitter for more info. QED237 (talk) 23:38, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Stoke city league

Hi Qed237, Please can u update the league in 2014-15 Premier League because it says Stoke city 38 points. Evertonfc13 did it.

Thanks

Kwennington — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwennington (talk • contribs) 16:23, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean, where does it say 38 points? QED237 (talk) 16:31, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

It alright now he has done it.

Thanks for help anyway.

Kwennington — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwennington (talk • contribs) 16:45, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Turnovos Qualification to Europe League

Here are the standings on one round to the end of the Macedonian league:

1. Rabotnicki 62 pts. (qualified for CL)
2. Turnovo 57 pts.
3. Metalurg 56 pts. (qualified for EL through the Cup)
4. Vardar 55 pts
5. Shkendija 54 pts.

On one round to the end, there are 2 more spots left for Europa League and they will be decided between Turnovo, Vardar and Shkendija (with the top 2 of those going to EL).

For Turnovo to finish behind Vardar and Shkendija, Vardar and Shkendija will have to win in order to reach/pass Turnovo in the points, and Turnovo will of course have to lose in the last round. However, even in that case Turnovo will end ahead of Shkendija on the table as they will be tied in points, but Turnovo will have better face-to-face results against Shkendija with 2 wins and 1 loss . That means in this case, Vardar and Turnovo will take the two spots that lead to EL, and Shkendija will be the team to be left out.

However, that would be the situation only in case if Metalurg either wins or loses. In case if Metalurg ties (as you brought out), then the table will end up a bit more complicated and will look like this:

1. Rabotnicki 62-65 pts
2. Vardar 58 pts
3. -5. Metalurg, Turnovo and Shkendija, all of them with 57 pts.

In this case, there will be an additional table deciding the 3rd, 4th and 5th position, made out of the results between these 3 clubs only, and that table will include the following results:

• Metalurg vs Shkendija 2:0
• Shkendija vs Metalurg 0:0
• Metalurg vs Shkendija 1:2

(Results between these 2 teams: Metalurg 1W,1D,1L=4pts and Shkendija 1W,1D,1L=4pts)

• Metalurg vs Turnovo 1:0
• Turnovo vs Metalurg 0:0
• Metalurg vs Turnovo 1:2

(Results between these 2 teams: Metalurg 1W,1D,1L=4pts and Turnovo 1W,1D,1L=4pts)

• Turnovo vs Shkendija 3:1
• Shkendija vs Turnovo 0:3
• Turnovo vs Shkendija 0:2

(Results between these 2 teams: Turnovo 2W,0D,1L=6pts and Shkendija 1W,0D,2L=3pts)

All 3 teams and their encounters combined together:

• 3. Turnovo 3W, 1D, 2L= 10 pts
• 4. Metalurg 2W, 2D, 2L = 8 pts
• 5. Shkendija 2W, 1D, 3L = 7 pts

Meaning that even in this situation, Turnovo will still end ahead of Shkendija and so secure a spot in the Europa League.

That means that regardless if Turnovo loses in the last round and regardless of the outcome of Vardar, Shkendija and Metalurg, Turnovo will in any case get a spot in the EL, and the only spot open will remain to be decided between Vardar and Shkendija.

Okay thanks for the math. But what is the source saying head-to-head will be used, and if it is being used why count all matches?. The team with 2 home and 1 away will have an unfair advantage which is why goaldiff is most often used in these cases, or otherwise they say "only the two first matches count" or something. I would like to have some official source saying they qualified or the regulations. QED237 (talk) 00:34, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

The best rules I can find is goal diff as seen here at scoresway QED237 (talk) 00:40, 12 May 2014 (UTC)