User talk:TarnishedPath/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Bob Hawke edit

Hi, my edit to Bob Hawke was to add a link to the notable historical event that Hawke attended (as noted in the caption). I’m not sure why this was reverted as vandalism. 159.196.100.171 (talk) 07:52, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

My apologies. I didn't realise the event was commonly referred to as "Apology to Australia's Indigenous peoples". I thought it was commonly referred to as "Apology to the Stolen Generations". Just looked at the page now and confirmed your edit was correct and I've self-reverted my edit. TarnishedPath^talk 08:43, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. :) 159.196.100.171 (talk) 20:42, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

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Feedback request: Religion and philosophy request for comment

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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just saw your comment asking me to sign it

It seemed from time lining it that your comment to me came after it was closed, was only doing so because you asked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yestyest2000 (talk • contribs) 08:41, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

@Yestyest2000 I requested you sign before the RfC closed, not knowing that it was going to be closed not long after. TarnishedPath^talk 08:51, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

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Moira Deeming page

I have previously tried to correct inaccuracies on the page relating to the above person. The changes were to correct inaccuracies. Almost the next day this changes were reversed. You have asked me to talk to you before changing anything else. So here goes. The first paragraph suggest she was at an "an anti-trans rally". This is not true. it was a rally in favour of biologically based sex rights. It further says Ne0Nazis attended this rally. They did not. It was a separate rally close to but not part of the rally Moira Deeming was attending. These factually inaccurate points are repeated in the Anti-Trans rally section of her Wikipedia entry. These entries slyly seek to suggest Ms. Deeming is in some way linked to Neo-Nazi groups. I would appreciate if these false claims were removed or I can remove them and you can then if you not allow these slurs to be repeated. Many thanks for your time. Clanrickard (talk) 10:54, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Clanrickard, I invited you to discuss the topic at Talk:Moira Deeming. That is the appropriate place for such a discussion to take place. However to answer your request, Wikipedia follows what reliable sources say. If you edit in the way that you suggest you are going to then I can guarantee that you will have people reverting you because what you plan on doing is contrary to what is conveyed in reliable sources. If you believe other editors and my reading of reliable sources is incorrect, please feel free to discuss it in the article's talk page. TarnishedPath^talk 11:11, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Untrue. The statement that Neo-Nazis attended the rally she was at has NO references backing it up which is required for a Wiki entry. At the very least if you are going to allow this to stay then I should be able include Deemings rebuttal that these Neo-Nazis had nothing to do with the rally she was attending. Clanrickard (talk) 11:51, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

There was only one rally, which the neo-nazis attended. The reliable sources do not reference multiple rallies like your edits claimed. Now again if you think other editors and myself are misinterpreting the sources, the article's talk page found at Talk:Moira Deeming is the appropriate forum to discuss it as it could be anyone who will revert you if you make the changes that you suggest you will. I've already called your attention to the article's talk page previously so I heavily suggest you take any content discussions there. TarnishedPath^talk 12:21, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I have done so. And no these Neo-Nazis were not at the same rally. This is a wilful misinterpretation of the facts. I have put up a post in the Talk page so hopefully my suggestions will be taken on board. Clanrickard (talk) 16:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

WP:OUTING

You may want to revise your links and comments about the photographer on the ET article, to be careful not to be afoul of WP:OUTING. VQuakr (talk) 23:11, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@VQuakr, thanks for the advice. Does this apply given that there username is their real name? TarnishedPath^talk 23:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

To be honest, I'm not sure. Caution is advised because that policy and the related items that the section links are taken very seriously, but at the same time I tried to phrase my post above in a way that made clear I understood that harassment isn't your intent here. As I noted in my reply in the article talk page, the suggestion that the photo creator's affiliation or political views somehow makes the photo unusable, is not correct. So there isn't a great reason to be including those links at all. VQuakr (talk) 23:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Yeah I get you. I did read an exception in that policy about where an editor has identified themselves but I've removed the links that were there out of caution anyway. TarnishedPath^talk 23:47, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@VQuakr. I disagree with your assertion that "the photo creator's affiliation or political views" should not factor into an image's usability. In isolation I would agree that a user's affiliation or political views should have no bearing on their editing; but in this case, since usability arguments regarding the image involve COI and non-neutrality facets, these facts about the uploader are not only appropriate to include in the discussion but practically necessary for establishing those things. In fact almost all COI of interest editing revolves around the user's affiliations virtually by definition of what a COI is. If I work at Kraft foods, it's a COI of interest to edit the Kraft articles. If I am the head of the Democratic National Committee, it'd be a conflict to edit political articles about Democrats and Republicans. etc. Why? Because of my affiliations. This case is no different than that. Jason Quinn (talk) 21:16, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not aware that evidence has been presented that anyone affiliated with the subject has substantially edited the article. Regardless, working for Kraft and being head of the DNC are false equivalences since I believe the concern TP noted was that the original image author/copyright holder is right wing, not affiliated with the org. VQuakr (talk) 00:57, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

They appear to be something more than "right wing". Online searches for commons:User:Peterdukephoto indicate that they most likely have close ties to the subject and promote MAGA. TarnishedPath^talk 01:36, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Or he just knows how to make a buck off of the Right, but yes, people with right-wing views may promote MAGA. Frankly I'm not seeing any evidence from a web search that they are affiliated with PB or any other org. But again, even if they were they still haven't substantially edited the article. To continue the Kraft analogy: if Kraft freely licenses a nice-looking, professionally-produced photo of some mac and cheese, we're not going to avoid using it just because it's by Kraft. VQuakr (talk) 01:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Elliot Rodger (January 6)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Dr vulpes was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

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Dr vulpes (Talk) 19:16, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

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Warning of WP:3RR violation on the Nick McKenzie article

Hello @TarnishedPath. You have currently done 3 reversions on the Nick McKenzie article. Another one within 24 hours will put you in violation of the WP:3RR rule. Furthermore, you did not receive a consensus to make the edit in the first place. Please do not perform another reversion. Mkstokes (talk) 11:15, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

@Mkstokes. Please learn how to count. I've only performed 2 reverts in the last 24 hours. Now please withdraw your patently incorrect statement. TarnishedPath^talk 11:22, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

I didn't say you performed 3 reversions in the last 24 hours. Your reading comprehension skills here and on reading reliable source material have been noted several times. Please don't put words into my mouth. I said you've done 3 reversions. That is not "patently incorrect." WP:3RR also includes those using the 24-hour rule to game the system. Note that "The rule is not an entitlement to revert a page a specific number of times." Mkstokes (talk) 12:09, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

To violate WP:3RR an editor needs to revert more than 3 times within 24 hours. I suggest you read the policy. As I've only reverted 2 times in the last 24 hours you placing a warning of WP:3RR on my talk page is incorrect. Now please at least read policies before leaving messages on people's user page's which refer to them. TarnishedPath^talk 12:15, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

I did read the policy in detail. It says, in part, "Fourth reverts just outside the 24-hour period will usually also be considered edit-warring, especially if repeated or combined with other edit-warring behavior." You have 2 inside and 1 just outside the 24-hour window. I would surmise that is why the Nick McKenzie article hasn't been reverted since my last reversion. Please don't be obtuse. It doesn't suit you by half. Mkstokes (talk) 12:59, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Learn to count. The 1 you refer to is not just outside the 24-hour window. It is a number of hours outside the 24 hour window. Now, you have no justification for warning someone about WP:3RR when they have only reverted 2 times in the last 24 hours. Now go away. TarnishedPath^talk 13:02, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Notice of request to protect the Nick McKenzie article from factually inaccurate edits

Hello @TarnishedPath. I have requested that the Nick McKenzie return to a protected status given your unauthorized and factually inaccurate update to this article. Mkstokes (talk) 17:36, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Why are you removing quality assessments?

You've done this on Talk:Liberal Democratic Party (Australia), Thomas Sewell (neo-Nazi), and Talk:Avi Yemini. Are you trying to get people to reassess the articles in question? I don't really get why you're doing this. PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:16, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

My apologies. I don't know what I was doing. It was late at night, just before I logged off for the night. I've correct Liberal Democratic Party {Australia) and Avi Yemini. Someone has already done Thomas Sewell. TarnishedPath^talk 22:17, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

No worries, I wasn't bothered, just confused. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Notice of neutral point of view noticeboard discussion

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Arbitration Request regarding Nick McKenzie article

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Removal of content from "Court cases and shield laws" section of Nick McKenzie WP:BLP and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use. Mkstokes (talk) 13:48, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mkstokes (talk • contribs) 13:46, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Case request declined

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A barnstar for you!

	The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
	Thank you for all of your great work! Much appreciated. MaskedSinger (talk) 06:19, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

That's cute! You gave him a huge thank you. Go team! Mkstokes (talk) 21:43, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Avi Yemini has been accepted

Avi Yemini, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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(t · c) buidhe 09:24, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Buidhe, I noticed that there's been no Articles for Creation banner added to the talk page when it passed AfC, like I've seen for other articles. Would it be possible to get one? TarnishedPath^talk 05:58, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

If you look at the talk page history, one was added to the talk page along with duplicate wikiproject banners, so I undid the automatic edit. If you want the AfC banner back, feel free to restore it. (t · c) buidhe 06:26, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

@Buidhe thanks for the advice. I'll have a look in a little while. TarnishedPath^talk 06:41, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Great work!

Just wanted to drop a note that I thought the way you managed the Talk:Nick McKenzie discussion was top notch. Great job! Slacker13 (talk) 15:15, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Notice that you are now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Franco Lino (January 27)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Johannes Maximilian was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

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Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 13:29, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Avi Yemini

I hope this is better ([1]). Thanks for the heads up. 65.88.88.200 (talk) 01:11, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

@65.88.88.200, most of the stuff you've done is good but you've added australiaunwrapped.com as a source back into the infobox and that source is unreliable because it's a blog. Also The Forward article doesn't mention Avi or Avraham once, how is that of any use? I'd suggest remove material related to those two sources. TarnishedPath^talk 01:25, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Talk page

Why did you do that on my talk page? MaskedSinger (talk) 14:01, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@MaskedSinger, I'm sorry I don't know why. I just wondered would it let me archive to another user's archive and my curiosity got the better of me. My apologies. TarnishedPath^talk 14:07, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

It's fine. No need to apologize. I don't care. Just had no idea what was going on. And? Did you get the answer you were looking for? And of all the users here to do it on, why did you choose me?MaskedSinger (talk) 14:12, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I guess I did. TarnishedPath^talk 14:14, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Bush Runner

My book "Bush Runner" is actually two words, not one. The full title is Bush Runner: The Adventures of Pierre Radisson. ("Bush Runner" was my attempt to translate courrier du bois".) Thanks for the fixes.

Mark Bourrie

So it is. I don't know why I didn't pick that up when I was looking at bookshop offerings. TarnishedPath^talk 13:07, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Mark, I suggest for any future requested updates to the article, you utilise the {{edit semi-protected}} tag in the article's talk page. More information can be found at WP:MAKINGEREQ. I probably won't be following the article. TarnishedPath^talk 13:17, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Neeraj Gupta (Sculptor) (February 18)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Jamiebuba was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

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Jamiebuba (talk) 11:30, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Franco Lino (February 22)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by GMH Melbourne was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

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GMH Melbourne (talk) 23:29, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello, TarnishedPath! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! GMH Melbourne (talk) 23:29, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Sexual assault denials

I was going to respond on the article but I respect your perspective so I brought it here. I'm curious what you think about my question. The Assassination of John F. Kennedy is a featured article so it's a worth topic of WP:OTHERCONTENT. There are a plethora of reliable sources covering Lee Harvey Oswald's denial that he shot JFK, but it's not mentioned in the lead. Do you think that's talking the official POV of the US government? Don't you see how it's false balance to elevate Harvey's denial? There's no real logical debate the assaults in Israel happened or who caused them. Hamas' denial is in the article. I'm perplexed at the idea that not mentioning it in the lead is taking the POV of Israel. Do you think this is POV is politically motivated? Nemov (talk) 13:47, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

I think it comes down to a question of creditability. I would put the creditability of Hamas's denial a bit above that of Oswald's, while noting that the lede is not confined to one paragraph and that the RfC in question doesn't specify where in the lede the denial would be placed. Currently it is in the last sentence of the first paragraph, however further discussion might clarify that it should be somewhere else in the lede.

I think all too often in this current and past conflicts in the PIA area creditability is given to Israel, and any Palestinian/Arab militants are discredited by default and this is not always warranted and is a POV. Already during the current hostilities Israel has been shown to have lied on the number Israeli civilian casualties and been ordered by the ICJ to stop engaging in genocide (how to say they're engaging in genocide, without saying they're engaging in genocide) and yet Western media and by extension Wikipedia editors are all to happy continuing on with this narrative that Israel has creditability by default and the other side doesn't. I think a slightly more critical attitude, i.e a NPOV is called for. TarnishedPath^talk 02:19, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm not getting in the weeds on credibility of two sides of af conflict. However, no reasonable person is denying these abuses happened. Just like no reasonable person denies JFK was killed. There's still a lot of people who don't think Oswald did it. The US government has lied a lot over the history of the US. We go by reliable sources and not "what I think about Western media." When you start down that road you sound like someone attempting to correct a great wrong.

It's disappointing, but most of your response reads like someone who can't see this from a NPOV and I was hoping that wasn't the case. Happy editing. Nemov (talk) 13:31, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

I have no interest in major rewrites of PIA articles to tell a completely different narrative or RGWs. I see others getting involved in that and I'm not interested. I edit much more on BLPs/politics than I do PIA content. When I do edit around PIA it's usually more likely to be a RfC (lately anyway) and I don't fool myself in thinking my !vote is going to change the world. I'm not seeing the possibility of putting a Hamas denial towards the end of the lede for example as being FALSEBALANCE issue like I would as putting stuff promoting the COVID lab-leak anywhere into the lede of the COVID-19 lab leak theory article. TarnishedPath^talk 13:53, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Warning of Concerns Regarding "Bad faith" Adminship

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Hello! This message is being sent to warn you about your renewed campaign against Mkstokes. As you were previously warned by Ivanvector, "But please don't harass editors even if they are sanctioned, unless you want to see your names beside logged interaction bans at WP:AELOG." You provided feedback that information should be excluded from the Fani Willis article per WP:BLP. When corrected regarding your understanding of that policy, you erroneously called that a "personal attack." When corrected regarding what Wikipedia designates as a personal attack and politely asked to validate your reading of the WP:BLP policy, you used your administrator privileges to suppressed the conversation. This is the only warning. Per WP:ADMINCOND:

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Furthermore, as per WP:ADMINACCT:

Administrators are accountable for their actions involving administrator tools, as unexplained administrator actions can demoralize other editors who lack such tools. Subject only to the bounds of civility, avoiding personal attacks, and reasonable good faith, editors are free to question or to criticize administrator actions. Administrators are expected to respond promptly and civilly to queries about their Wikipedia-related conduct and administrative actions, especially during community discussions on noticeboards or during Arbitration Committee proceedings. Administrators should justify their actions when requested.

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Your action to suppress honest, reasonable, and cogent arguments rather than providing a reasonable response to them is unbecoming of your position. Further actions in this regard will immediately be reported to the appropriate process for adjudication, starting with Administrative action review. Mkstokes (talk) 13:13, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mkstokes, you need to undo this immediately. This is your only warning. I'm going to be extremely charitable and suggest if you remove this whole conversation that I'll act like it didn't happen, because I'm going to suggest this doesn't look good for you. TarnishedPath^talk 13:22, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your extreme charity. It is noted. I stand by my assessment. As noted "...editors are free to question or to criticize administrator actions. Administrators are expected to respond promptly and civilly to queries..." I did so and you not only didn't respond appropriately, you made an unfounded accusation and then acted to suppress my comments. Another administrator had to step in and reverse your suppression/closing of the discuss because you are NOT an "uninvolved editor." Now, you are threatening me to remove my warning by suggesting this doesn't look good for me? No, I will not be intimidated and will trust the process, come what may. Mkstokes (talk) 14:03, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

You are not even an administrator 🤣 per information provided here and per the Wikipedia:List of administrators. You have my permission to delete these comments from your page, bless your heart. Mkstokes (talk) 16:48, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Your submission at Articles for creation: Neeraj Gupta (Sculptor) (March 1)

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User:TarnishedPath re-engaging in wikihounding despite multiple warnings

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Mkstokes (talk) 20:41, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

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Daivd Lammy RfC summary help

Hello, could you help with closing the RfD on David Lammy talk page and summarising because it seems there's a consensus on a change to British politician but I do not want to make a mistake and have bever done this before. Erzan (talk) 03:04, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

@Erzan, RfCs generally go for 30 days unless there is an complete landslide (WP:SNOW). I suggest waiting until then and then if you want a independent closer you can try WP:CR. TarnishedPath^talk 05:03, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

@TarnishedPath That is why I asked because I started the RfC 40 days ago. If there is slim consesus is that enough to have the page edited? I will check WP:CR Erzan (talk) 05:22, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

@Erzan, I'll list it at WP:CR when the RfC tag expires if you remind me. TarnishedPath^talk 06:21, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

New Pages Patrol newsletter April 2024

Hello TarnishedPath,

New Page Review queue January to March 2024

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Heads up

CVDX already had the AP2 notification in 2019; they do seem a tiny bit like they're looking for a fight and might respond poorly to being overly-templated. Hilariously I noticed your post only because I'd gone to see if they'd got the AP2 notification probably stemming out of the same edits. Simonm223 (talk) 17:18, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

I missed that. I looked at their user talk history and didn't see it. I learnt from a recent experience with another editor that I should leave CTOP notices early so that if action is required I don't have to wait for diffs after I've left a CTOP notice later than I should have. So now the first second I see something even slightly divergent from consensus operating I leave a notice. TarnishedPath^talk 20:58, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Neeraj Gupta (sculptor) has been accepted

Neeraj Gupta (sculptor), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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Venezuelan politics opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Venezuelan politics. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Venezuelan politics/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 20, 2024, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Venezuelan politics/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 23:37, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

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New page patrol May 2024 Backlog drive

New Page Patrol | May 2024 Articles Backlog Drive
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A barnstar for you!

	The Brilliant Idea Barnstar
	Thank you for figuring a way I can help Wikipedia by your recent advice though on my talk page. It's a good humor having you and don't forget to alert me always. People make mistakes and I am not an exception—still maintaining improved future edits! Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 07:59, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

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Reverted closure at Talk:Hunter Biden

As this is related to a long-running dispute this RFC should run for the full thirty days. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:24, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

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Archive links for live URLs

Please don't add them to talk pages, especially comments that are not your own. Doing it to articles is already seen by many as a dubious practice (and banned from the Donald Trump and Steele dossier articles) as it just adds bloat and makes large articles much larger. That creates accessibility issues for many readers. Doing it to other's comments on talk pages is not justified. Doing it to dead URLs is very welcome, and no one every complains about that. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:00, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Won't do it again. Had no idea about the Donald Trump and Steele dossier articles to be honest as I've not edited the Steele one and barely edited the Trump one. TarnishedPath^talk 15:05, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:57, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Andy Ngo

I think you should ping all editors who participated in the previous RfC. The last discussion was a continuation of the RfC closing discussion thus all involved editors should be pinged. Springee (talk) 13:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

At present I've pinged everyone from that thread. It's just hit 12am at my end of the ocean. Pinging everyone from the previous RfC (and if I'm to be fair the 2 RfC's before) will take a bit of time. I'm willing to do it tomorrow. TarnishedPath^talk 14:01, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

OK, that's fair. Sleep well and we can civilly argue in the morning! Springee (talk) 14:07, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

@Springee, per your very reasonable request I've pinged everyone. I hope I didn't miss anyone. TarnishedPath^talk 05:33, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

You missed me, but I noticed. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:02, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

I left you off because I noted that you were already in the conversation. TarnishedPath^talk 15:06, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

That makes sense. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:57, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Ben Roberts Smith

Hello. I've started a discussion on the BRS talkpage ref using war criminal in the opening sentence if you'd like to contribute 2001:8F8:1D63:6485:17CD:3B73:BC40:4AD0 (talk) 04:03, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Block evading sock Ben Roberts-Smith article

I have little doubt that you're right, but I'm curious. How do you know that IP editor is a block evading sock? HiLo48 (talk) 06:43, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

@HiLo48 check my contribution history for a recent SPI that I opened. TarnishedPath^talk 06:49, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Ah, I see. It's challenging though when there seem to be so many IP addresses involved. HiLo48 (talk) 07:08, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

@HiLo48 I'm not sure if you're using it, but there's an WP option that will tell you were in the world an IP editor geolocates to when you're looking at an articles edit history. The second I saw UAE, knowing BRS is one of the articles that editor repeatedly goes back to, I knew it was them. After I ran the editor interaction tool it just confirmed it. TarnishedPath^talk 07:16, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Yep. I'm familiar with geolocate and similar tools. I just admire your persistence in following through on all this. HiLo48 (talk) 07:25, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

@HiLo48 as I said, I've had them stalk me accross Wikimedia Foundation projects to vandalise my User page on another project so I have little patience for their behaviour. TarnishedPath^talk 07:54, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Understood. I'll keep an eye out and do what I can. HiLo48 (talk) 08:03, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Hopefully my SPI takes them out of action for a while. TarnishedPath^talk 08:29, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Why revert all the edits?

You reverted a lot of much needed content update and fixes because you didn't like 1 minor factual change? KiharaNoukan (talk) 06:36, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

@KiharaNoukan, my apologies. I thought all of your edits were to do with that section of the lede. TarnishedPath^talk 06:55, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Proposed decision in the Venezuelan politics case posted

The proposed decision in the open Venezuelan politics arbitration case has been posted. Comments on the proposed decision may be brought to the attention of the committee at the talk page. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 17:37, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

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Reference renamer

In the article on Chloe Lewis (figure skater) reference name "Oregonian140214" meant newspaper=Oregonian, date=14 Feb 2014. That is more useful/unique than "Schnell-2014", which meant author=Schnell, date=2014.-- Toddy1 (talk) 05:12, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Protection for Elliot Rodger

Do you think there is any way to semi-protect the Elliot Rodger article? People are already adding unsourced information and I just know it is going to be vandalized soon. The 2014 Isla Vista killings article is Extended-protected so I wonder if we could do this with the Rodger article. Shoot for the Stars (talk) 19:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Shoot for the Stars,

If anyone called for page protection for the article at the moment I don't think it would be successful given the amount of activity. You can make a request anytime you like at WP:RFPP, however I don't think you'd be successful at the moment. TarnishedPath^talk 01:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Ps, I've restored some of the material you've removed with sources I obtained from the article about the Canadian incident. TarnishedPath^talk 02:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

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Criminal parameters at Donald Trump

Hello. I recently reverted the inclusion of the criminal parameters in Trump's infobox citing legitimate policy concerns. As of now, this happened less than 24 hours ago. You reinstated them without consensus soon after.This amounts to tag teaming and distorts the consensus building process. Also, violates the spirit of the arbitration restriction to follow the BRD cycle set for the Trump article. It would be a courtesy to respect the process and revert your reinstatement. Iamreallygoodatcheckers ^talk 15:41, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

If you're going to accuse me of WP:MEATPUPPET, I suggest you provide specific evidence that I'm coordinating with other editors off-wiki. Otherwise I suggest you strike your ridiculous accusations. Note: there has been obvious consensus formed at Talk:Donald_Trump#What_we_do_after_conviction for the inclusion of the material in the infobox. TarnishedPath^talk 15:58, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Somebody added these parameters and I appropriately reverted them within policy and guideline. You then reinstated them without consensus (you can't cite an unclosed, one-day old RfC as consensus for anything). This created an edit war situation where I couldn't revert what you reinstated but you also technically avoided breaking the BRD restriction because you didn't originally add the parameters, someone else did. That's what I meant by saying it was a form of tag teaming in this context, but if there is a different understanding of it I will strike the accusation. Either way what happened was disruptive. Iamreallygoodatcheckers ^talk 16:20, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

@Iamreallygoodatcheckers, per WP:TAGTEAM: "Tag teaming (sometimes also called an editorial camp or gang, factionalism, or a travelling circus) is a controversial form of meatpuppetry in which editors coordinate their actions to circumvent the normal process of consensus". TarnishedPath^talk 16:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

While I'm pretty sure I've seen the use of "tag team" to describe what has occurred here before, I will strike it because I don't believe it was coordinated in any meaningful way. But, I will reiterate what occurred was disruptive. It's all resolved now anyway. Iamreallygoodatcheckers ^talk 20:35, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

@Iamreallygoodatcheckers, my single revert was no more disruptive than yours or anyone else's single revert. I really don't see what the need was for you to come to my talk page, rather than just discussing it in the article itself. TarnishedPath^talk 03:21, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

It is because your revert was a violation of BRD by reinstating major content changes with no consensus that had been challenged, and I had put in my edit summary not to add back without consensus. These things cannot be said about my revert. Iamreallygoodatcheckers ^talk 10:21, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

My revert was within what is specified by the Active Arbitration Remedies notice. Again my single revert was no more disruptive than yours or anyone else's. If I put a note in my edit summary for others after me to not revert my change would that have made a substantive difference to my edit? The answer is no and neither did it to yours. Again, I'm not sure what inspired you to come here which was unable to be dealt with through normal conversation on the article's talk page. TarnishedPath^talk 10:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Nick McKenzie archive

Please let me know who decided, when and with what authority that this discussion page for McKenzie is now archived. Sentaso (talk) 08:00, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

The article's talk archive is for archived discussions which previously occurred on the article's talk page. If you wish to start a new discussion Talk:Nick McKenzie is the appropriate place.

Beyond that you might want to address your behaviour at WP:AE#Sentaso TarnishedPath^talk 08:18, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

You ignored my question (again).

Who decided, when and with what authority that this discussion page for McKenzie is now archived? Sentaso (talk) 08:40, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm not here to WP:SATISFY you. TarnishedPath^talk 09:27, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

WP:BLP misunderstanding

It appears you don't understand some aspects of WP:BLP.

A quote of yours from the Mckenzie archive "if McKenzie is not named, then what is the material doing on a WP:BLP about McKenzie? TarnishedPathtalk 00:57, 9 January 2024 (UTC)"

BLPs do not always need to explicitly mention the subject's name as long as the information can be clearly and unambiguously attributed to the subject. Sentaso (talk) 08:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

@Sentaso, take this to Talk:Nick McKenzie. Do not, under any circumstances, ever post to my talk page again. TarnishedPath^talk 09:28, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Do not, under any circumstances, ever delete legitimate WP content again Sentaso (talk) 10:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

POLENET

I will definitely work on secondary sources for POLENET. I do want to add that the article started with one reference from a Harward geophysics technical paper. There is one secondary source from the start. Starlighsky (talk) 13:43, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

@Starlighsky any extra reliable sources that demonstrate significant coverage would be good. TarnishedPath^talk 13:50, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Will do Starlighsky (talk) 13:53, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

IETF link

Hello. Why does your Edit Summary implementing the recent Hunter Biden RFC have a link to the Internet Engineering Task Force instead of the Talk page that contains the RFC? DonFB (talk) 21:33, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

@DonFB Hi Don, I'm away from my PC in another city from my home. Consequently so I'm editing on my phone. When I left the edit summary I stuffed up the link to the RfC and didn't realise until after I'd already submitted it. If I was at my PC I would have copy and pasted it. As to why it goes to Internet Engineering Task Force, I have no idea. TarnishedPath^talk 22:20, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

RfC assistance

Hello again and thank you for the earlier advice for the RfC on Hayes Barnard Talk page. Based on the consensus, would you agree that it would be a sufficient time to close the RfC? No responses since May 17, and have received 4 'No' votes in total. I see the WP:CR and am considering this as next steps or if I should wait out the full 30 days. Thank you in advance on any advice you have for me. JesseGoodLeap (talk) 03:15, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@JesseGoodLeap, it’s been going for 23 days at present? I can’t tell for certain because I’m overseas away from my home, away from my PC, and only have my iPad and phone. I’d say there’s no harm in letting it go another 7 days, as it doesn’t appear that editors in other threads have contributed. I don’t think those discussions demonstrated a solid policy basis on behalf of those other editors but I think you should leave it at least until the RfC tag expires given the previous contention. When the RfC tag does expire, if all the !votes are still unanimously no, don’t take it to WP:CR because you’ll most likely be told to do it yourself. TarnishedPath^talk 13:14, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@TarnishedPathyes, it's been about that long. I will ride it out and let it expire on its own, appreciate your help and guidance! Have a great night. JesseGoodLeap (talk) 23:06, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

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Huh

You did one good thing but one bad thing in this edit 100.36.106.199 (talk) 11:14, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

@100.36.106.199, I don't know how I ended up inserting that sentence at the top of the page. I can only guess that it was a sentence that I Ctrl-C, Ctrl-F and then Ctrl-V to find the place in the page where the erroneous curly brackets where and I must have Ctrl-V an extra time and ended up inserting it at the top of the page. I just looked at the code and it seems its not at the top of the page anymore, so someone must of corrected it. Regards, TarnishedPath^talk 00:40, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Sorry to revert you

I just can't believe that a speedy close within a day based solely on the author's indignation is a valid close. I guess I better go ask someone to be sure, huh. But no. At minimum somebody needs to explain to me how this is ok. Elinruby (talk) 06:55, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

@Elinruby, I thought better of the nomination given the speech by Trudeau connecting the fires (even if it is only speculation). I've successfully nominated articles for deletion a couple of times based on WP:NOR but it is going out on a limb to nominate for that reason alone. TarnishedPath^talk 07:32, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

@Elinruby, if you ever want to nominate any article/redirect/draft/category/etc for deletion you can do so easily using WP:TWINKLE. If you wanted to nominate multiple articles in one AfD then you would do all the coding by hand. TarnishedPath^talk 07:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

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Ilaria Salis

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

User Polygnotus deleted that she attacked alleged neonazis.Actually she attacked tourists, bystanders etc. That is why I suggest you revert that part. I already added sources:

The Guardian, Euronews and Politico.

Plus if you take a look at the Talk Page, you can see that UserNorden1990 already enlightened him that the attacks took place AFTER the neonazi event. 84.225.152.139 (talk) 12:55, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

@84.225.152.139 reliable sources say that she was alleged to have attacked neo-Nazis. That's still in the body of the article. TarnishedPath^talk 13:02, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

She was charged with attempted murder, not attempted assault.

https://apnews.com/article/italy-activist-ilaria-salis-returns-from-hungary-d12d157a1b948f77f7ea3db509717b40 84.225.152.139 (talk) 13:20, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

She was accused of both. That's what the sources say. We as editors can make editorial decisions about what we do and don't cover in articles and what prominence we give different material, in line with WP:BLP, WP:NPOV and WP:RS. Now go away and stop trying to get me to do your bidding. TarnishedPath^talk 13:24, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your civilized and good faith assuming answers! That is how a really Wikiperson talks! I learnt a lot from you! 84.225.152.139 (talk) 13:49, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

ANI

I don't think you should be (1) voting in proposals, (2) making proposals, (3) talking about it in the public forums on WPO, while also (4) closing subthreads. Please revert your closes and let someone else do that. Levivich (talk) 14:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

@Levivich anyone can close threads. If you think I'm out of line then revert me, but it will only get closed again for the precise reasons I gave. TarnishedPath^talk 14:49, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

"Anyone can close threads" is not true. I reverted. Levivich (talk) 14:55, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

@Levivich, I don't care that you reverted me. Someone else will close with pretty much the same reasoning I gave. TarnishedPath^talk 14:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

FYI, and speaking only for myself, I don't really want to work here with anyone who spends time participating in public off-wiki forums shit-talking about editors. If you got something to publicly say about someone else here, say it here, or else say it in private. What really irks me, more than the public-but-off-wiki shit-talking, is people who do that, and then come on-wiki and close threads, propose sanctions, vote on stuff, etc. Publicly gossiping about people on websites is crass. Wikipedia editors aren't like celebrities or public figures where it might be crass but at least tolerable to engage in gossip. Why would you participate in a public forum where people are shit-talking other volunteers here? I don't get it, and I wish you would stop. I think less of you because of your participation there, and I really do hope you stop. Levivich (talk) 15:08, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

@Levivich, you really need to fucking drop the WP:ABF about everyone that has a WPO account. I have all of 12 comments there and I haven't talked shit about other people, nor do I intend to. I only created an account so that I could look up the comments of other users, otherwise I would have browsed without an account whenever someone referenced something there. TarnishedPath^talk 15:22, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

@Levivich FYI, but I'm sure you're already aware, the sub-thread was closed by another editor at Special:Diff/1234096504 with exactly the same reasoning I gave. What exactly was the point of your revert? TarnishedPath^talk 15:30, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

You have posted in the WPO thread dedicated to talking trash about Lightburst. It's not ABF, it's holding you accountable for what you actually wrote and where you wrote it, I'm not assuming anything, I'm reading what you're actually writing (and where you're writing it) and responding to that. You're simultaneously proposing sanctions and closing threads. Not cool. Please do not participate in public off-wiki trash-talking of other editors, or at least if you're going to do that, stay away from those editors on-wiki. Levivich (talk) 15:31, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Nothing you write displays anything other than a blind dislike of anyone who has a WPO account. You've not provided any evidence of me talking shit about anyone and just assume because I've casually written all of 12 comments that I must be part of some homogenous group. Pat yourself on the back. TarnishedPath^talk 15:36, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm criticizing you for participating in a thread that is dedicated to trash talking an editor. Do you understand this? Not for participating in WPO, but for that one particular thread. Levivich (talk) 15:38, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

You criticising me participating in a thread without criticising the content of my actual words is ludicrous. Do you understand that? What's even more ludicrous is you reverting closes that I made on that basis, when they have been and will be closed by other editors with exactly the same reasoning. Do you understand that? TarnishedPath^talk 15:48, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

No, it's not ludicrous. By analogy, one cannot hang out in a skinhead bar and say, "But I've never said anything racist!" I'm criticizing you for the online company you keep, for palling around in a thread dedicated to trash-talking one of your fellow editors, even if you haven't done the trash talking. But what you have done is try to put your thumb on the scale by participating in that thread, and then making proposals for sanctions here, and voting on other sanctions... and even closing threads. You are absolutely a participant in the harassment of Lightburst that originates on WPO, even if you haven't written anything negative about LB on WPO. You are helping to effectuate the will of your fellow WPO forum-dwellers on this website. It doesn't matter that the thread was closed by other editors with the same reason (obviously, both the threads you closed were going to be closed for the same reasoning). What matters is that someone hanging out in the trash-talking forum, and making the proposals to sanction the editor who is being trash-talked, should not also close the threads in the same discussion. As the saying goes, it's not just about the end result, it's not just about actual impartiality, it's about the appearance of impartiality. Levivich (talk) 15:53, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Oh wow, I'm a skinhead now. You really should strike most the dribble you've typed. TarnishedPath^talk 15:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm with User:Levivich on this one. User:TarnishedPath, I would re-read through WP:NAC, particularly point #1 of the "inappropriate closures" section. — AP 499D25 (talk) 02:12, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Revdel

Try reaching out to one of these admins at their user talk page. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:37, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I completely overlooked that cv-revdel was for copyright. TarnishedPath^talk 15:45, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

NUS article cull

Hi TarnishPath, just want to clarify something in regards to your recent edit. Although I agree with your removal of content, your reasoning is faulty. Student media is not automatically an unreliable source, and any competent Australian tertiary student media would almost certainly be reliable when it comes to the NUS (see WP:RSSM). Not saying that the specific outlets cited in the article are or aren't usable, just wanted to bring that policy to your attention for future reference. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 07:45, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

@5225C, in principle I agree with you that a student paper is capable of being WP:GREL and I should probably not have generalised in that manner. There are of course student newspapers that are over a hundred years old and which have boards of directors which are required to approve all content. It's also clear that an undergrad is not necessarily less qualified to be acting as a journalist than a lot of professional journalists who are completely without tertiary training in the field. A review of some of the reporting in the Australian tabloids lays that bare. TarnishedPath^talk 07:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Re: SPI

I recognize that you filed at SPI pro forma to provide a paper trail of the continued socking and there's nothing wrong with doing so. The reason I commented is that I did not see it mentioned anywhere in the SPI that the IPs were blocked. SPI has a perpetual backlog (there's around 200 cases in various states of activity right now) and I wanted to make it clear to SPI clerks and admins that this particular filing was ready to be closed and archived without further administrative action. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 00:06, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@Trainsandotherthings, from memory, at the time of filing of the last one (I updated it for the 2nd IP at one point), the IPs had not as yet been blocked. I notified @Daniel, at the same time as filing the SPI and he would have blocked them shortly after. I'll keep in mind to update SPIs though when IPs are blocked. TarnishedPath^talk 00:30, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Ah, that makes sense. I had a previous SPI stay open for over a week after the offending IPs were blocked, until I posted on SPI talk asking for it to be closed to cut the backlog. I always try to keep User:Tamzin/SPI is expensive in mind when at SPI. We don't want a clerk and/or CheckUser to try and go through the motions of processing a case only to realize partway through the accounts are already blocked and they wasted their time. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 00:37, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Editor experience invitation

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See WP:ANI#User is threatening to report me for simply adding relevant Wikiproject tag to talk page

Doug Weller talk 15:41, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

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August 2024 - Imane Khelif

You have been repeatedly accusing other editors of POV-pushing on the Imane Khelif talk page. I have already warned you that this conduct is unacceptable, especially in a WP:CTOP. Please mind WP:AGF, WP:CIV and WP:ASPERSION, or I will report you to either ANI or AE. Gitz (talk) (contribs) 08:44, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@Gitz6666, do not ever post on my user talk again. TarnishedPath^talk 13:37, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I see they didn't tell you they reported you. WP:ANI#Behaviour of TarnishedPath Doug Weller talk 16:00, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

BLPRESTORE

If you're going to claim BLPRESTORE when reverting you should seriously consider opening a discussion at WP:BLPN. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:03, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi @ScottishFinnishRadish, I have taken your guidance and posted at BLPN. I'm about to log off, so I'll look at any responses tomorrow. Be well. TarnishedPath^talk 14:13, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

ANI notice

There is currently a discussion at WP:ANI regarding your behaviour. The thread is Behaviour of TarnishedPath. The discussion is about the topic Imane Khelif. Thank you. Gitz (talk) (contribs) 23:50, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

August 2024

A ridiculous cat

Please excuse my erroneous edit, likely a mistaken rollback or revert caused by my fat fingers, hypnagogia, or one of my ridiculous cats. I have likely self reverted or noticed the mistake after you corrected it. Again, my apologies. Thank you. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:15, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

No worries. It happens. TarnishedPath^talk 05:24, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

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Thanks,

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Notice of Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Meta Voyager's tendentious editing. Thank you. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:12, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

@Cordless Larry I'll have a look once I get to work and am sitting in front of my computer. Thanks for the notification. TarnishedPath^talk 22:28, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Revert of my edit

Moved to Talk:International_Churches_of_Christ#Revert_of_my_edit

Ygm

Doug Weller talk 17:44, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

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Apology

Sorry to keep harassing you TarnishedPath. I apologise if i was antagonistic or it wasn't my place to tag you on the page. I was just looking for a second opinion but I understand and won't do it in the future. DeadlyRampage26 (talk) 12:52, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@DeadlyRampage26, if you thought that the article didn't meet WP:GNG and WP:NPOL you could have nominated it for deletion per WP:AFD. There was absolutely no need to ping me as some sort of guru or whatever. TarnishedPath^talk 12:57, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Ref fixes

Hi TP, my revert here may have undone some of your reference fixes. Apologies in advance. Cheers, Daniel (talk) 07:35, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

@Daniel, thanks for letting me know. I probably won't bother as it looks like it's going to be deleted at AFD. TarnishedPath^talk 07:38, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

No problemos, and agree. Should be deleted, absolutely. I sent a COI report to our new COI email overlords earlier today as the editor has a clear conflict of interest that I established. Will be interesting to see if anything happens in that space. Daniel (talk) 07:40, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

They have an article that made it through AFC that reads like a resume. Looks well-sourced on the surface but I will have to evaluate the sources when I have time. TarnishedPath^talk 08:36, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

AFD success

Hey, I saw one of your recent AFD noms, and I thought I'd drop by to say that about half the pages you've sent to AFD during the last year have ended up being kept.[2] That's a significantly lower 'success' percentage than average, so you might want to be more careful with your noms. It might be that you just need to be more thorough with your WP:BEFORE searches. Some people find that it helps to assume that the community's standards for inclusion are a bit broader than your own, or make more use of the {{notability}} tag for subjects that have a lower chance of getting deleted.

AFDs are "expensive" in terms of community time, so I encourage you to only use AFD when you are reasonably confident that the article will actually get deleted. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:25, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I have tended to go out on a limb sometimes, especially when I've considered that an article is unmitigated WP:OR and then discovered that others don't share my view that it is strong enough reason for deletion. TarnishedPath^talk 00:36, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

For something to really be OR, there has to be no reliable source in the world, anywhere, in any language – not even one written by the subject themselves – that has ever said whatever is in the article. If it's really OR ("Here is my personal analysis of Darth Vader's breathing disorder in The Movie"), but the subject is maybe notable (e.g., the subject is mentioned in the news occasionally), then I'd suggest that you try Wikipedia:Stubbing to get the article down to something that isn't completely made up. AFD is not the only way to get rid of bad content, and it is often not a reliable way. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:51, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I've stubbed articles in the past. I'll take your advice and do it more often in circumstances where I don't feel an AFD would lead to a likely outcome. TarnishedPath^talk 01:33, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

So using this data source for debates where TP was the nominator (ie. Vote is "Delete (nom)") between 30 August 2023 and 30 August 2024, and excluding the two debates which are "not closed yet", I get the following:

• Delete (12) 43%
• Speedy Delete (1) 4%
• Merge (4) 14%
• Redirect (5) 18%
• No Consensus (2) 7%
• Keep (1) 4%
• Speedy Keep (3) 11%

Delete/speedy delete/merge/redirect being 79% and no consensus/keep/speedy keep being 21%. Nothing for me to be concerned about purely based on the numbers, in my opinion. Daniel (talk) 02:45, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I took a long break between August 2014 and July 2023, with only sporadic editing between. My overall stats are somewhat skewed by the figures from 2014 and to be honest I shouldn't have been editing then given what was going on in my life at the time. TarnishedPath^talk 02:55, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

@Daniel, Merge and Redirect are generally considered forms of Keep, because nothing gets deleted. That puts it, by your count, at 47% delete and 53% not-delete.

I didn't look at the 2014 edits. I don't think they're relevant. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:58, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Disagree entirely with that. Merge and redirect are more often than not alternates to deletion that are used where consensus clearly exists to not retain the content (making the AfD entirely justified) but a different outcome was proposed and accepted by the closer and consensus. Daniel (talk) 04:18, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion, I guess. I think that an "alternative to deletion" is not deletion; you are entitled to think that it's deletion if you want. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:51, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

It's a grey area. Sometimes articles are brought to AfD because the nominator previously attempted to BLAR the article but was reverted; in that case a redirect outcome should be seen as successful. I'm not sure what continuing to press this is meant to accomplish. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  16:06, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Stephen Jolly BLP

Hi TarnishedPath. In reference to your removal of content in an article, Stephen Jolly. The facebook post doesn't allege criminal activity, it explains why the party voted to suspend membership. The post is from the official Victorian Socialists page and as such is both appropriate and reliable. It speaks to the view of the party, not to the veracity of the claims. I would invite you to read the post. Crying BLP to remove facts is not on, I would draw your attention to "crying BLP" in particular "if an objectionable statement has a reliable source, it cannot be removed repeatedly without regard to the edit warring policy."

Jolly's suspension from the party he helped found is significant, relevant an undisputable objective fact, as is the nature of the allegations that lead to his suspension and resignation. 54 charlee 9 (talk) 02:40, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Facebook posts by Victorian Socialists are not reliable for anything other than claims about themselves, let alone reliable for alleged crimes committed by third parties. The Victorian Socialists alleged that Jolly committed family violence, which is a crime in the state of Victoria, Australia. I'm going to remove the material again and if you restore it you will swiftly find yourself before WP:AE for engaging in WP:BLP violations after you have been notified that it is a contentious topic area. TarnishedPath^talk 03:25, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

The claim is about themselves, it explains their decision to suspend his membership. Rather than removing the material you could find a way to describe his suspension that is less contentious? His suspension is a fact. 54 charlee 9 (talk) 03:30, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

such as"Jolly resigned from the Victorian Socialists in September of 2019 after the party executive voted to suspend his membership", referenced by the age article 54 charlee 9 (talk) 03:32, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

The Age makes no specific claims about Jolly's conduct. The Victorian Socialist Facebook post does. The Victorian Socialist post clearly makes specific allegations about Jolly's conduct. As an unreliable source, material covering it does not belong in a WP:BLP under any circumstances. TarnishedPath^talk 03:37, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I disagree, but Jolly isn't worth the effort. I have changed it to the above 54 charlee 9 (talk) 03:39, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I have no issue with that sentence being in the lead. For future reference though you didn't need to add the reference again as it was already in use in the article. Look at my edits for how I made repeated use of the reference. TarnishedPath^talk 03:54, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I future I would invite you to edit constructively rather than removing content 54 charlee 9 (talk) 03:58, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Your content was a WP:BLP violation. The correct action with WP:BLP violations is removal. You need to drop the stick on this topic before you find yourself on a noticeboard anyway. TarnishedPath^talk 04:01, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

COIN

This is just a follow up re: what we discussed briefly at COIN. I thought it better to take it here rather than allowing the thread to be derailed.

First of all, let me say that I agree with you on the general subject of ICOC.

However, I really don't think that it will ever be possible to get a broad consensus over issues such as COI or blocks for questionable editing. We are seeing that at ANI and COIN.

The strongest argument you have for your point of view is in relation to material being retained due to the existence of RS sources. I think a lot of people have pointed that out in one way or another both at ANI and COIN, even those who disagree with the proposals in those threads.

I've been following the developments at the ICOC talk page and in the various threads at ANI and COIN for some time now. Basically the underlying issues and disagreements over that article have been going on for too long, they are a time sink, they are not going away and some kind of resolution is required. That is why I suggested earlier today the possibility of some kind of brokered compromise version of the article, perhaps achieved by arbitration(?). I just think that is an option seriously worth considering given that the policy arguments are basically on your side, even if the COI situation is contested.

Anyway, however you proceed from here I wish you well. Axad12 (talk) 19:12, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

See WP:DRN. Doug Weller talk 19:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Doug Weller,

Thanks for the suggestion. There has already been RFCs on some of the issues and some editors seek to repeatedly misinterpret the closes or just ignore then and repeatedly bring up discussion pushing for changes on similar items which have already been disucussed as in the RFCs. Once you're at that point it's behavioural. TarnishedPath^talk 00:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Axad12,

Thanks for the message. I think the article is due for a trim in some sections that are duplicative or based on WP:ABOUTSELF sourcing. Beyond that I do think some of the issues repeatedly raised in talk have already been addressed in RFCs and some editors are seeking to misinterpret RFC closes to suit their own preconcieved ideas. I literally don't know why I waste my time there. I only ended up there after seeing the last discussoin on COIN and I don't often edit any other religoius articels aside from RFCs which I've been notified of by the bot. TarnishedPath^talk 23:27, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Personally it is a topic which I had resisted making any comment on for about 6 months. My impression was that there were a number of non-conflicted editors who were essentially facilitating the actions of COI editors by adopting various straw man arguments or other forms of sophistry. Having commented now on both the ANI and COIN threads I see that my impression was correct. Axad12 (talk) 23:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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Headline correction

Hi there. Just FYI that I've checked the headline on Newspapers.com and ProQuest, and it appears to have been correct before you changed it here. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:00, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

OK I'll revert that one. It looked like two different headlines in the newspaper archive TarnishedPath^talk 11:13, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Ah, I see - where it continues on p. 4, it has a slightly different headline to what's on the front page, where the article starts. But I think it's best to use the first headline. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:16, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Re: Fifth five-year plan (China) moved to draftspace

Thank you for your comments. I have now added a few books as references, please review them again. HelenAtkinson2002 (talk) 03:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @HelenAtkinson2002, I see that @SafariScribe has reviewed the article when you submitted it through WP:AFC. I suggest that you take onboard any feedback that they've provided and further improve the article. TarnishedPath^talk 04:39, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

ANI archiving

On 26 September you used Archiver to archive some threads from ANI. It looks like Archiver may not understand ANI archive names. The threads should have gone into the current archive Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1167 but instead Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Archive 1 was created and they were put there. I'll try to fix it. NebY (talk) 10:46, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

@NebY, thanks for the advice. I didn't realise that the archiver wouldn't work there and won't use it on that page again. TarnishedPath^talk 11:01, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

@NebY thanks for cleaning up after me. I think the error might have been mine for not specifying a non-standard archiving name and presuming the script would automatically know. I will use more care in the future. TarnishedPath^talk 11:21, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Aha; Archiver might be great in other ways (I've not used it) but it does seem a curious design choice not to look at the page's |archive= and |counter=. I've seen OneClickArchiver used on ANI without apparent problems, and of course Lowercase sigmabot III just keeps going. NebY (talk) 11:32, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

I was just reading the documentation for both Archiver and OneClickArchiver. It seems that OneClickArchiver does look at the archiving templates on a page to determine the archiving location. Archiver automatically looks for the highest number to archive to, e.g. Foo/Archive x or Foo/Month Year. Anything else outside of that isn't suported for Archiver. I just asked the maintainer and they advised that they have no intention to add the functionality. TarnishedPath^talk 11:36, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

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ANI closure?

I'm curious why you instantly closed that ANI discussion? It's clearly an ongoing behavioural issue. Warrenᚋᚐᚊᚔ 14:50, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Warrenmck I didn't see that there were "urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioural problems" in anything that you wrote. TarnishedPath^talk 14:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

The entire context of what I wrote was an ongoing behavioural issue which was continuing past explicit requests to strike aspersions and maintain civility. Either the accusations made were inappropriate or they weren't, but instantly slamming the door on that discussion doesn't feel right considering ANIs have been successful for less. Warrenᚋᚐᚊᚔ 14:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

OK, I've undone my close but I still don't see "chronic, intractable behavioural problems" and if you get any editors stating the same I'd suggest to let it go. TarnishedPath^talk 15:01, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Request revert

Please revert your edit here. The comments were, as noted, simultaneous and edit-conflicted. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:53, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Andy,

I've reverted and I'll leave it to @Black Kite's judgement if the comments should stay. Regards, TarnishedPath^talk 23:29, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

ec

lol we had an edit conflict here, I'd literally closed it, refreshed the page, the close didn't appear, I tried to close it again, and was told it was already closed. :D Valereee (talk) 13:30, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

lol, it happens TarnishedPath^talk 13:31, 11 October 2024 (UTC)