Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 April 20

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April 20

Archive box

While editing the archive box on my talk page, I was trying to put the asterisk next to make a bulleted list. But instead of getting a bullet next to the text, I get an actual asterisk. What's up with that? Also, I was wondering if it was possible to change the background of the archive box. --Whip it! ^{Now whip it good!} 00:37, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure that the asterisk is on a separate line? If it isn't, then the bullet will not show up. Also, check to make sure that there are no "nowiki" tags surrounding the asterisk, that might be causing the problem. As for your second question, simply subst: the archive box and save. Then, go back to edit it again and you should be able to alter the "background:" parameter. Hope this helps! tempodivalse [☎] 01:56, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! The problem was the fact that it wasn't on a separate line. And thanks for the second tip about the archive box, but what I meant by background was in changing its color. --Whip it! ^{Now whip it good!} 02:19, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

RFC

The RFC here is being used very poorly. There are many differing opinions about how such an RFC is to be used, when and whom is appropriate to close it, and what recourses are to be considered. Is there any sort of guidance regarding this specific RFC that can be given to the situation? PLEASE assist. it's a mess over there. 207.237.33.36 (talk) 02:31, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Does Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct help? You may also find some helpful content on the talk page: Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment. I would say that perhaps the talk page may be the first place to ask questions if you're not sure how the process is supposed to work. Hope that helps. — Ched :  ?  06:03, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

No, I've been through all that. The whole situation is just a complete and total mash-up, though. (In my opinion, it's a valid user-complaint, but not everybody agrees, and it's becoming insanely partisan). There are also MANY MANY questions on how the RFC in question is to be used...too many picayune details being questioned... 207.237.33.36 (talk) 01:16, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Heading

This is my first time adding info to wiki. How do you activate a new heading eg The Town Today for a town listing? I have tried to get this info up for Clare, South Australia and Penwortham, South Australia. Does an administrator need to do this? Thanks, Alan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarewino (talk • contribs) 03:10, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

For a new heading, put it on a separate line surrounded by '=='. For example:

== The town today ==

Note that we use lowercase letters for non-proper nouns in headings, except for the first letter. For more information, see Wikipedia:How to edit a page#Headings. Hope this helped, hmwithτ 04:01, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Please refer to Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/Guideline for the standards. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 11:32, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Tried to enter notes about my changes in the Edit Summary -- did not accept notes, only my changes

As stated, I tried to explain why I made such elaborate changes to the Mary Monnett Bain article, because I figured previously writers/ editors would be unhappy about my changes.

I wrote the book, Money Methodism and Madness, the Story of Mary Monnett. I am Cynthia Rush. So it is my book (a footnoted text book about Mary's life) they are relying on (and listing as a reference at the bottom of the article) when they make statements about her life. An earlier writer made derrogatory statements about someone in Mary's life. It's not that I disagree about what a jerk this person from Mary's life was, it's just that we cannot absolutely substantiate it -- and the footnoted book I wrote, which the writer used as a reference, only presents the facts, it does not present opinions. So I revised the article to be less of a referendum on this man's conduct and more of a statement of the facts we know about Mary's -- since the article was supposed to be about Mary.

Anyway, the Edit Summary at first would not accept my typed words. I later came back and tried again, and it seemed to accept my (brief) explanation for the changes I'd made, and yet, after it saved, it had not saved an additional version nor had it added the Edit Summary.

What gives???

Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.210.214.101 (talk) 04:41, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

The edit summary box will accept no more than 200 characters, so if you write past that limit, it will discard the excess characters. Second, editing articles that you have a close connection to is strongly recommend against, read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest to know more. Third, Wikipedia articles are supposed to be neutral, that means articles are supposed to represent facts, not opinions. --Whip it! ^{Now whip it good!} 05:01, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Feel free to comment on Talk:Mary Monnett Bain. See Wikipedia:Talk page and Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. --Teratornis (talk) 05:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

That happening is actually very common. Tt would sure help new editors a lot if the edit summary box only accepted the limit of characters that will be shown/recorded. hmwithτ 14:22, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

When you need to make an extensive comment, place it on the article's talk page, and then note the talk page in your edit summary (e.g., "Totally restructured article. Please see talk page.") When you think an edit may be controversial or lead to discussion, then describe the proposed change on the article's talk page and then wait for a while before actually making the change. In this particular case, I do not believe that WP:COI is relevant (you are editing as an expert, not an interested party) but please do be sensitive to this issue. If the jerk is still alive, then unsourced (or improperly sourced) derogatory opinions about the person in any article are subject to WP:BLP are should be removed on sight by anyone: this also overrides the WP:COI strictures. -Arch dude (talk) 10:01, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Hillsborough disaster described wrongly?

I just wondered why the Hillsborough disaster is described as a 'human stampede' - surely 'crush' is more appropriate? 194.217.93.82 (talk) 11:16, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).  GARDEN  11:25, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Need image of Wikia founders

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 19:24, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Could someone adept at image manipulation refine File:Angela Jimbo Piotrus - Wikimania 2006.jpg to include just Beesley and Wales? I need an image of the Wikia founders (another will do of course). Thanks, Skomorokh 13:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

If you have any version of Windows, pull up the image ([1]). Once it loads, right click it, and click "copy". Open your program of Microsoft Paint (Start > Programs > Accessories > Paint). Go to Edit > Paste. Move the picture as far as you want it left & top, and then, you can crop the picture from there. You can drag the dots to take out area on the right and bottom.

If you use Windows Vista, you can make it much easier by simply saving the picture & opening it in the image editor, where you can crop it with the click of a button.

If you use a Mac, I have no idea. hmwithτ 14:15, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

However, you can request article-related image alteration/improvement in the future at Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Image workshop. hmwithτ 14:18, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Windows? Hey man, I said I was incompetent, not stupid! Seriously though, thanks for the advice, I'll ask those hombres (I could do it myself but I'd like it done properly). Regards, Skomorokh 14:22, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Type of files when uploading music?

(I don't know if this is the right place to ask this question).

I would like to upload a music file under the licence "fair use". Which type of files can I use when uploading music?

The music file is a "wma" in the Windows Media Player. But I also have the music on CD.

I hope that someone will help me. Thank you. Fanoftheworld (talk) 13:47, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I think that we generally use the ".ogg" format when uploading audio; however, I am a rather a newbie when it comes to technical stuff, so I don't have a clue what ".ogg" is. Sorry I can't really help much. tempodivalse [☎] 13:51, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

We use .ogg files. For more information, see Wikipedia:Media help (Ogg). hmwithτ 14:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

How do I convert from a "wma" file to a "ogg" file? Can I do that in Windows Media Player.

PS: I have the music on CD so I can rip it to the computer once again if that should be necessary. Fanoftheworld (talk) 23:16, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Windows Media Player can do it but one website I find quite useful for this sort of thing is http://media-convert.com/ Tra (Talk) 23:22, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much. That is a very good website! Fanoftheworld (talk) 11:51, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

how do i post a biographyDprice65 (talk) 15:38, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

how do it post a biography?

Before creating an article, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines which all articles should comport with. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite to reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.

Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.

If you still think an article is appropriate, see Help:Starting a new page. You might also look at Wikipedia:Your first article and Wikipedia:How to write a great article for guidance, and please consider taking a tour through the Wikipedia:Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. TNXMan 15:39, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Oops

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 19:23, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I tagged a redirect page for speedy deletion recently (in preparation for a page move) and can't remember what it was called. It's not in my watchlist, so I assume it was deleted. Help. Clarityfiend (talk) 15:59, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps it was Dusan Popov? TNXMan 16:22, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

That's it. Thanks. (I'd make a lousy spy.) Clarityfiend (talk) 17:54, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Which is exactly what good spies would want us to think! TNXMan 18:02, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Are censored sources acceptable?

Today, I stumbled upon the Republic of China article, which at some point was citing a page on the chinese Wikipedia. I removed it since IMO any source coming from censored media cannot be considered reliable. According to WP policies, was that the right thing to do? In general, should we accept sources that come from countries which don't allow freedom of speech? Laurent (talk) 16:00, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about citing censored media, however, instead of citing Wikipedia pages (in this language or others), we should cite the sources they mention. Wikipedia is a tertiary source and should cite reliable secondary sources. I hope this helps! TNXMan 16:18, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

We generally don't cite Wikipedia at all. But we certainly do cite censored or partisan information sources. The same source may be reliable for one statement and unreliable for another. If a large Chinese newspaper says that a nuclear reactor exploded near Beijing, we may safely conclude that it happened. If the same newspaper gives a detailed report about a large demonstration on Tienanmen Square we may not conclude that there was no violence because it's not mentioned. --Hans Adler (talk) 17:06, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

The Chinese Wikipedia does not "come from" the People's Republic of China exclusively. It receives edits from Chinese speakers throughout the world. Because the Chinese government tends to (imperfectly) block the Chinese Wikipedia within mainland China, only a relatively few people with technical skills are able to circumvent the block there. Thus the contributions of mainland Chinese are not proportional to their huge population size. When you see an edit on the Chinese Wikipedia, there's a fair chance it originated from some location with free speech. The Chinese government does not censor the Chinese Wikipedia, because they cannot. That is why they block it. --Teratornis (talk) 17:11, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikilinks in columns

Are there any guidelines for using wikilinks in adjacent columns? For example in the orchestra article, you'll find four columns, each listing the typical orchestral instruments for a certain period. When I was searching information about the modern orchestra, I was interested in the instruments they use, but I felt a certain discomfort when searching for a wikilink to one of the listed instruments, as I had to look for it in one of the three previous lists. So I edited the article and putted a wikilink on every instrument in every list. Some time later, another user undid my changes, while saying:"Links should appear ONCE only."

So now I've been reading the wikipedia's guidelines on the topic of wikilinks, but I couldn't find a conclusive answer. It did state that tables on wikipedia should be able to regarded on its own, but I do not know if these lists qualify as tables.

Can anyone give me a more direct answer to my question? Teleevisie (talk) 16:58, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, WP:OVERLINK to which the other user refers, is merely a guideline. It can be broken. The idea is to end up with the solution most practical for your average reader, and if that means linking more than once, then do it. In this circumstance, IMHO, the current "solution" is imperfect. The correct solution will probably involve more links. - Jarry1250 ^{(t, c)} 17:13, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

See the recent discussion for some ideas:

• Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 April 6#List of wikilinks in an article

--Teratornis (talk) 17:22, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

How can i write my own page as a part of the encylopedia?

i want to know how i can write something inside the encyclopedia ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shayanprod (talk • contribs) 17:17, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

If you want to create an entirely new article, see WP:FAQ#CREATE. However, Wikipedia deletes thousands of new articles by new users, so you should first tell us what you want to write about, so we can advise you on whether Wikipedia will accept an article on the topic you have in mind, and how to make it "stick". --Teratornis (talk) 17:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Before creating an article, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines which all articles should comport with. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite to reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain nsourced, negative content about living people.

Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.

If you still think an article is appropriate, see Help:Starting a new page. You might also look at Wikipedia:Your first article and Wikipedia:How to write a great article for guidance, and please consider taking a tour through the Wikipedia:Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. Best of luck. tempodivalse [☎] 17:36, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Contributing to Wikipedia

I have been trying to add a page titled "FNC, Inc." Everytime time I submit the page, it gets deleted. I am interning at FNC in Oxford, Mississippi this year and I need to get this up. Why won't the page stay up when I am working for FNC and contributing the information?

Wfgillis (talk) 18:04, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps the fact that it reads like an advertisement has something to do with it, as well as the fact that much of the content is copied from various pages on the company's Web site (such as this one). We cannot accept content copied from elsewhere, unless the company wants to release it under a free license, which requires going through the procedure described at WP:Donating copyrighted materials#Granting us permission to copy material already online. (Note that your being employed by this company does not mean that you have the right to release material copyrighted in the company's name.) People around here tend to take spam seriously, and copyright violations even more seriously. You may also want to read WP:COI. Deor (talk) 18:36, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

We take spam pretty seriously too. – ukexpat (talk) 19:22, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

One time the article was deleted because it did not indicate the notability of the subject; see WP:COMPANY for the notability guideline for a company. —teb728 t c 19:36, 20 April 2009 (UTC) Also your company’s terms of use page explicitly forbids reuse of the content of their site. —teb728 t c 19:46, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

formattation of an article i´m trying to create

Hi, I just haven´t found on the ¨Editing¨instructions how can I formatt the paragraphs in the article I am working on. Just something like a space in the beginning of the new paragraph, between the margin and the first word or a small space between the last line of a paragraph and the first line of the next. Just how to formatt the paragraphs as to mark when a new one starts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unanimoustruth (talk • contribs) 18:21, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Manual of Style may have the information you're looking for. — Ched :  ?  18:33, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

The recommended style is just a single blank line between paragraphs and not to use <br /> formatting. – ukexpat (talk) 19:21, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

sign up

I tried to sign up with the same login that I use on everything. I have never had anyone ever have this login, but I did experience the strangest thing with your site. It told me that my login was too close to another login on the site. That is crazy. Why do you that? I can see not allowing something with the same login, but close?

Please let me know the reason why.

Thanks so much —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.105.201.99 (talk) 18:26, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Because new accounts with names similar to previously existing ones are often created by vandals with the intention of impersonating the original user or causing other disruption. Even when created non-maliciously, similar names (especially ones hard to distinguish in print, such as the substitution of an I for an l) can cause unnecessary confusion. If the similar username's account is inactive, or the names are different enough not to cause confusion, you can request that your account be created for you here. Algebraist 18:36, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I was going to suggest asking at Wikipedia talk:Usernames for administrator attention, but perhaps ACC is better. — Ched :  ?  18:39, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Pre-determined List

When I was going to vote to determine the future copyright terms of Wikimedia projects that ends on May 3, 2009 a page came up that I was not on the "pre-determined" list. I was just wondering what the pre-determined list is, and how I may get onto the list. Because I would greatly appriciate it if someone could help me to get onto the list and vote for the Wikimedia projects. Thank you very much for reading this and I really hope that you could assist me to get onto the list BEFORE the voting deadline.

Kit 18:46, 20 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitxkat (talk • contribs)

As explained at meta:Licensing update, you need to have made more than 25 edits to some WikiMedia project before the 15th of March. Algebraist 18:52, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

How do I find out about a 1956 jr high school shooting?

My neighbor was in the eighth grade when one of the school bullies came into his classroom with a 22 rifle and killed his teacher. The student's name was William Raymond Prevette and at the time he was around 15 years old. He killed 32 yr old Frazier Cameron who was a war veteran, came home and on a GI Bill, got his teaching degree and his students loved him. He tried to get Prevette to put his rifle in the corner and sit down when he was fatally shot in the chest. The shooter then went looking for the gym coach and another teacher to shoot and ended up shooting 2 more male teachers and a woman teacher before the police were able to take the rifle away from him. Prevette would now be around 68 years old and I can find no mention of this school shooting? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Caringprovider (talk • contribs) 19:28, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Do you know where this took place? TastyCakes (talk) 19:30, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

You might want to ask your question at the Humanities reference desk, as this page is intended for questions about using Wikipedia only. Here is a direct link to start a new thread, for your convenience: [2] Thanks. tempodivalse [☎] 20:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

FILM

WHERE CAN I ORDER FILM FOR A MINOLTA CAMERA VECTIS S-100 USING 1X240 FILM I CANNOT FIND ANYONE THAT HAS THEM I WOULD LIKE SOME HELP IN FINDING FILM FOR MY CAMERA. RAY TAYLOR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.73.98 (talk) 20:10, 20 April 2009 (UTC) \

Hello. I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 2.8 million articles, and thought that we were directly affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the online free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is a help desk for asking questions related to using the encyclopedia. Thus, we have no inside track on the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the left hand side of your screen. If that is not fruitful, we have a reference desk, divided into various subjects areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. tempodivalse [☎] 20:16, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Editors of a page

Is there an easy way for me to see the number of times different editors have worked on a particular page? There is a page, or rather group of pages, in rather dire need of re-organization, but I'd really like to see who has been doing the work so I can get their input (the talk pages, which normally give an indication, seem to mostly be from occasional editors). What I'd really like is something a bit like this, with maybe the top ten contributors to the article by number of edits; something to give me some names to start. The article, by the way, is Saturday Night Live, which is a horrible hodge-podge of redundant sub-articles. Matt Deres (talk) 22:00, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Page History Statistics ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 22:21, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Great! Thanks! Matt Deres (talk) 01:16, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

is there anything wrong with ...

what is wrong with linking to a photo on the web on a blog , just to the photo ? (Off2riorob (talk) 22:36, 20 April 2009 (UTC))

Could you please clarify what you mean? I don't understand the question. --Orange Mike | Talk 22:56, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

If you mean copyright/fair use-wise, yes it's fine to link to a picture on an outside website. However, many blogs do not constitute reliable sources, so its appropriateness in the case you're thinking of really depends. TastyCakes (talk) 22:58, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

If you mean 'is it ok to hotlink an image from a website onto my personal blog' then this is frowned upon in the wider internet community as Inline linking is considered bandwidth-theft by some. Nanonic (talk) 23:05, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think you can display a picture in this way using the Wikipedia engine though. You can provide a text link to the file, but it wouldn't show the picture like you could if it were straight html. TastyCakes (talk) 23:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes thats it. an external link to a photo on a blog .

appropriateness .

It's come to that. Where could I request(on wiki) judgement on what site is a reliable one and which one is not? the bbc is ok ...yea and the chanel 4 is not?

thanks tasty (Off2riorob (talk) 23:23, 20 April 2009 (UTC))

It is technically not possible to link to an off site image and have it display in an article as Wikipedia has this feature disabled. You can create a link to it, but you really should link to the article and use it as a reference if appropriate. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 23:43, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Recover a deleted article?

Is there any way to see an article that has been deleted? I want to see if a deleted article should really have been deleted and maybe improve it. It was deleted on the say-so of one person, I surmise from the deletion log, with no feedback. Thanks. PhilLiberty (talk) 23:36, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Any admin can view deleted content. One of these admins might send you a copy if you ask them. Algebraist 23:43, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

You can also check Deletionpedia. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 23:45, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Remove citation needed tag and header at top of article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Cato

I have added the requested reference information. Please remove citation needed tag and header.24.218.119.119 (talk) 23:54, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

If you think the tags are no longer appropriate, remove them yourself. Algebraist 23:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Born on the Fourth of July

The information about the movie is incorrect. It did not win the Academy award for Best Picture in 1989 (although it should of). Driving Miss Daisy won. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.59.79.253 (talk) 23:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Our article Born on the Fourth of July (film) does not make such a claim. Algebraist 00:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)