Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 December 2

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December 2

A few things to discuss

Hi! 1. I think there should be a category for American Jews of Polish descent since Polish American Jews was deleted. 2. I think Liane_Cartman#Liane_Cartman should go under the Category:Fictional_prostitutes and Category:Fictional_pornographic_film_actors since an early part of South_park was about her sex life and was like that for a long time. 3. I would like to add links to Xena:_Warrior_Princess actors articles. For example, Claire_Stansfield page should have link http://hercxena.wikia.com/wiki/Claire_Stansfield from the Xena Wiki just like Star Trek actors have links from Memory_Alpha. Thank you! Neptunekh2 (talk) 01:35, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

1. Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 November 18# resulted in Category:Polish American Jews being renamed to Category:American people of Polish-Jewish descent. A second category called "American Jews of Polish descent" sounds like it will have too much overlap. Few people of Polish descent will move to America and then become jews. 2. I replied when you suggested these categories at Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 November 6#Liane Cartman. 3. http://hercxena.wikia.com/wiki/Claire_Stansfield has uncertain reliability and little content, less than Claire Stansfield, and it uses Wikipedia as a reference. Wikipedia itself doesn't allow to use other Wikipedia articles as references. I don't see justification for a link in Wikipedia:External links. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:32, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Question

I am having great difficulty in using Wikipedia's online help pages, which for the most part seem written to remind heavy users of the drill rather than to help beginners. (I also find it difficult to find a relevant and appropriate place in which to express my concerns about the inadequate help pages.)Can you recommend a hardcopy book in print on Wikipedia editing? Terry Belanger 03:20, 2 December 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baldwinn (talk • contribs)

There is no such book per se, or at least not one endorsed by Wikipedia. However, Wikipedia:The Missing Manual matches your description almost exactly, and in theory you could order it from the PediaPress (supporting Wikipedia financially in the process). As to your other comment, you can express your concerns right on this page (or better yet, its talk page or the Village pump). Intelligentsium 03:29, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

(e/c)Hello Mr. Belanger and welcome to Wikipedia. I placed a welcome template on your talk page with a link to some information you may find useful. I don't know about any hardcopy book on Wikipedia editing, and a quick Google search shows no result, but maybe some other editor does. In the meantime, do you mind me asking what is it you want to edit? Maybe I or someone else can help you with the specifics. Just place your question(s) after this message, using ":" to indent your message and four tildes (~~~~ to sign your message. Good luck and thank you for your interest in Wikipedia! Cheers - «CharlieEchoTango» 03:36, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Learning Wikipedia is different for everybody, because no two people want to do exactly the same things here. Nobody learns all of Wikipedia, only the parts they need. That makes it hard to write the simplest possible manuals for everybody, since everybody needs their own customized manual. Essentially you have to build this manual yourself, by reading the general manuals and figuring out what applies to you. If you tell us more about what you want to edit, we can narrow things down for you. Note that one common problem for new editors is wanting to write completely new articles from scratch. That's one of the harder things to do on Wikipedia, because you have to know a lot of rules to write an article that won't be quickly deleted. One of the most important rules is that we have to provide reliable sources to support everything we write in Wikipedia articles (everything which is not completely obvious, that is). Very few people write that way before they come to Wikipedia, so that takes some getting used to. In everyday life, most people just assert things, and usually they can't provide any published sources. --Teratornis (talk) 06:06, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Further to my last

Here's an example of the problems I am encountering:

Hello, Baldwinn, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Our intro page provides helpful information for new users—please check it out! If you need help, visit Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on this page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Happy editing! «CharlieEchoTango» 03:27, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

(e/c) This kind message has just appeared in my userspace. But I have no idea how to get to CharlieEchoTango's talk page, nor can I find a way to place {{helpme}} on the page I am looking at. Terry Belanger 03:33, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

You can place the {{helpme}} template on the same page I put the welcome template on. «CharlieEchoTango» 03:36, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

WP:TALK explains how Wikipedia's talk pages work. --Teratornis (talk) 06:08, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia is like an alternative reality where we have our own ways to do things that you are probably used to doing differently elsewhere. Talk pages are a good example. There is a complicated history behind talk pages. When Wikipedia started, it was very simple and plain; as problems arose, people added more features to deal with the problems, using the basic wiki software paradigm. Now that Wikipedia has had 10 years of development to build up lots of features, someone just arriving here can feel overwhelmed. But Wikipedia really is brilliantly designed. The seemingly odd system here works so well that Wikipedia has become one of the world's most-visited Web sites, and working here is so enjoyable that millions of people donate their time for free. --Teratornis (talk) 06:33, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't help that CET posted using a signature that renamed the default "talk" link to his talk-page. DMacks (talk) 06:41, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Hrm, that came out snider than I had hoped...no harm in customizing sig, and it's still completely according to guidelines, just that it's out-of-sync with the message that is written for something closer to default layout. DMacks (talk) 06:48, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

While I understand where you come from and how it might be confusing, I modified my signature because I do not have a user page, and don't want two links that redirect to the same place : my talk page. Regardless, I think this user is just confused about the way Wikipedia works, and not really about the signature, since it's still a blue link you click on; after that, it's pretty obvious it's a talk page. Cheers - «CharlieEchoTango» 08:46, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

obtaining a copy of a will

My mother had passed away 6 years ago this past june. My brother and sister know she had a will but never saw it. My father is in possession of it and says he doesnt know anything about it. How can I obtain a copy of my mothers last will and testament? —Preceding unsigned comment added by G cirillo (talk • contribs) 03:40, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

• Sorry, Wikipedia does not give legal opinions. --Orange Mike | Talk 04:08, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

You might find some useful information in Probate, but as Orangemike says, you should consult a lawyer. But there is nothing in that article, or in will, which suggests that a will is a public document or has to be registered in any way before probate. --ColinFine (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Practice varies not only between countries, but even between states. At least at one time, all wills in England were on file at something called Somerset House, according to my memory of a myriad English mysteries. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:26, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

<legal disclaimer>Orangemike is indeed correct. In England and Wales (not sure about Scotland but probably similar) the executors of a will must obtain a grant of probate from the Probate Service acting on behalf of the Family Division of the High Court. This requires the will to be registered whereupon it becomes a public document. Some states in the US (Maryland, Pennsylvania and Delaware for example) have a similar system. In Delaware the Register of Wills is part of the Chancery Court.</legal disclaimer> – ukexpat (talk) 16:07, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, once the executors apply for probate, they have to register it. Until then, it's not registered or filed anywhere. --ColinFine (talk) 19:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Limited access vs dead links

I ran across this, but was able to access the ref today (and always). Is it appropriate to apply a dead-link tag for a limited-access site like Jstor? Thanks, CasualObserver'48 (talk) 05:13, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Not sure it's appropriate to put the dead link tag when the link is not dead and the content available. Or maybe I don't understand the question. Maybe something more appropriate is on this page? «CharlieEchoTango» 05:19, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

You understood it as intended; question is resolved, and I'll make a fix to it. CasualObserver'48 (talk) 06:15, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

For the record, it really was a dead link which was tagged.[1] Later a bot added a working url without removing {{dead link}}.[2] PrimeHunter (talk) 14:34, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

November 2010 disappeared in page view statistics

What happened to Stats.grok.se? November has been out for some time, User:Henrik seems to be inactive... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.77.158.172 (talk) 09:01, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

November is still there, just replace 201012 (December) by 201011 (November) in the url. «CharlieEchoTango» 09:06, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

What happened to Phil Schneider's page?

Don't you guys find it VERY SUSPICIOUS that Wiki keeps deleting "Phil Schneider" Wiki page?

First he was targeted by the US government, multiple times they tried to assassinate him, and finally succeeded after he managed to speak out the truth!! I always thought America was a country of freedom, freedom to express yourself in an appropriate way of course, Freedom of speech, etc the list can go on. So why is it that this man in particular, has his wiki page removed??? and yet you can find people on here like "Ted Bundy" who has proved to have done revolting things, and all Phil has ever done, was find out the truth, and wanted to share that truth to the people who are ready to hear the truth!

You guys may say Phil was mental etc, well just think about it for a second, why would the US Government, or another secret Governing body waste their time and effort, trying to eliminate this man if he was crazy and deluded, when they have more important issues to handle? Sounds to me like who ever wanted him dead, didn't want the TRUTH to be spread.

KILLUMINATI! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ironlykalion (talk • contribs) 11:15, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Here is the discussion that resulted in the deletion of the article Philip Schneider. It seems from the discussion that the reasons for deletion were not related to 'freedom of speech' or 'the truth,' but to the difficulty of finding reliable sources which could verify the information in the article. The only available sources were not of sufficient reliability to assure Wikipedia's readers that the information in them was accurate. If you are aware of legitimate newspapers, mazazines, or books that have written about this person, you are welcome to take those sources to deletion review and request that the article be undeleted, so you can rewrite it to meet Wikipedia's standards for verifiability. You could look at the references section of the article you mentioned, Ted Bundy, to see what a well-referenced article might look like. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 12:28, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

You need to brush up on your understanding of the First Amendment and to whom it applies. Wikipedia is not the Federal Government and the First Amendment does not apply to it. To quote Wikipedia:Free speech, [The First Amendment] does not require that a private, charitable organization like the Wikimedia Foundation give a soapbox to all comers.' – ukexpat (talk) 16:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Protected article

I can't understand why these articles are fully protected instead of semi-protection?They aren't very important like Wikipedia Main page.then, isn't semi-protection strong enough?Max Viwe | Wanna chat with me? 13:14, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

• Zomg
• Meera Jasmine
• Dumbass(why it wasn't protected from creation instead of fully protection?)
• Norman Finkelstein
• PS3 Media Server
• Meera Jasmine

It's not about importance. Articles can be fully protected as a response to problems with multiple autoconfirmed accounts who can edit semiprotected pages. See Wikipedia:Protection policy and the page histories, for example [3]. Dumbass contains {{Wi}} with a Wiktionary link that may be useful to some. It also prevents people following a link from seeing an ugly deletion log which has 20 deletions and includes names of people in some deletion summaries where the page started like that and the deleting admin didn't change the default summary. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:15, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

where does my donation go?

I'd like to respond the appeal from Mr. Jimmy Wales. How are the monies raised allocated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.181.101.83 (talk) 17:20, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Mostly the bandwidth and a few developers. «CharlieEchoTango» 19:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

See also Wikimedia Foundation and the external links there. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:42, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

The repeated displays of banners

How do I dismiss the ad banners permanently, instead of getting a different one each time I change pages? Corvus cornix_talk 18:52, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

By ad banner, you mean the donation appeal? You can click on the [x] which will make it disappear for a certain time, or you can go in your preferences in [gadgets] and select Suppress display of the fundraiser banner. Cheers - «CharlieEchoTango» 19:07, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

As reported below, "x" wasn't working before, I'll try the gadgets approach. Thanks. Corvus cornix_talk 20:19, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Broken "Kartika" and "Lilaroja" and "Joan Goma" banners

The banners can't be not displayed (clicking x does not work). Help? Thanks! Perseus (t • c) 19:00, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

If you mean the donation appeal banner, then you can go in your preferences in [gadgets] and select Suppress display of the fundraiser banner. If you meant the templates on top of the page, then they are meant to be seen and stay on the page. When the issues are fixed, they will be removed. Cheers «CharlieEchoTango» 19:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia Mobile formatting problem on Palm Pre/WebOS

Not sure if you've been notified about this, yet, or if it's only a problem on my phone, but the Wikipedia mobile site is coming up with odd formatting this morning (12/2/10). Instead of dsplaying in a single column sized to the screen, the sizing spread out, requiring quite a bit of zooming and side-to-side scrolling to view it. The formatting is akin to the way the desktop site displays on mobile phones. I am using a Palm Pre, utilizing the WebOS operating system, if that helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.101.1.120 (talk) 19:46, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

If you are using webOS, then you are out of luck. However, if you use WinMo, I (highly) recommend [ Opera Mini/Opera Mobile]. Wikipedia works excellently, however some section links do not work, and it will occasionally forget your login status. Otherwise, try that.  A p3rson ‽ 20:45, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

So you're saying, as of this morning, for some reason Wikipedia has decided not to support Palm mobile devices? I didn't "choose" WebOS, it's the operating system that comes with Palm Pre phones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.101.1.120 (talk) 21:27, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I downloaded the WebOS emulator and had a bit of a poke at it. It was displaying pages from the mobile site across the width of the page for me with no horizontal scrolling. However, an emulator may not actually completely match up with the real thing and I'm not familiar enough with WebOS to properly experiment with it. I know the mobile site was behaving oddly (showing CCS style information on the page) a few days ago; I saw this reported, but I can't remember where unfortunately. It has since either fixed itself or been resolved by...someone. You could try restarting your device and see if that makes any difference. There don't seem to be any other functional browsers for the Palm Pre that you could use to test WP. If the problem continues, the people at the Technical Village Pump would probably be able to direct you to those who manage the mobile site. --Kateshortforbob _talk 23:52, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not using an emulator on a non-Palm phone/desktop screen. If you were using an actual Palm phone with actual WebOS, you would see a full screen with extremely tiny text that would require you to zoom in and subsequently side scroll quite a bit to read. Problem is not relugated to my phone, as a web search would show. This is happening across Palm phones running WebOS. I'm not interested in people recommending a new OS for my cell phone, or people telling me they don't have a problem when they admit that their situation is different than the situation where this problem is happening. I wrote this in order for the people that can actually fix this on Wikipedia's part, because that is obviously where the problem is coming from.

I understand that you are running on a device; unfortunately, I don't have one myself, so an emulator was the closest I could get. I see this has received a response on bugzilla, so hopefully your problem is resolved now. --Kateshortforbob _talk 01:45, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Donation via BACS in the UK

The most secure way to make payments in the UK (and possibly elsewhere) is by logging on to your own bank and making a BACS payment to the payee's bank account, using the account number. I would readily donate using this method. I suggest that you publicise the account number of your bank account in the UK as part of your Donate page.

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.166.148.0 (talk) 20:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

At Ways to Give (linked in small text from the donation page), the Foundation has a bank account in Paris that you may or may not be able to pay into. You are far from the only person to wonder if there are methods other than PayPal. I agree the link should be more prominent, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a place to let the organizers know that everyone is missing the link. Xenon54 (talk) 22:10, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

softening seawater before desalination using Sodium r Sodium Hydroxide

2 December 2010

To soften seawter,making it more salty ,less bitter tasting, add 47 grams(one tsp) Sodium Hydroxide crystals 1 gallon of raw seawater ,let stand 3 days and note coprecipitated insoluble hydrixides of WAYER HARDENERS MAGNESIUM CALCIUM AND POTASSIUM. To 66 gallons o raw seawater in two exch 33 gallon gsr age containers with placstic insertsm add one 12 ox caister of Caustic Soda Lye Crystals for drain opening/degreasing indoor plumbing. ( Try,say) Lewis"Red Devil" brand,available in US Supermsrkets n Household Chemicals dept.) to 300 gallons of raw seawater, add 6 canisters of q2 oz. NaOH (4.5 lb total caustic soda lye .stir wait thrree days stading and collect 36 liters of Insolble hydroxides of magnesiom,calcium and potassium with trace of seawater insolublr Thorium hydroxide) , plus 999.5 liters of more salty tasting less bitter tasting Partly desalinated seawater.

Why bother t sften Seawarer for desalination purposes? 100 av crefeet o Raw Seawater require at least 221.7 metric tons of Caustic soda lye crystals to soften by co ptecipitating u insoluble Magnesium hydrixide, together wth insoluble calcium g hydrixide and insoluble potassium hydroxde,(effecting a chenicak separation of sodium and potassium cations is not that difficult in seawater...using the procedure..) THEORETICALLY, the procedure violstes no Proprietary iny terestsno any know patents for SEAWATER DERIVED MILK OF MAGNESIA. a n agricultural topiv\cal ield dressing -fertiizer..application for snow melting on sdewalks or in competition with common halite table salt for roads,and bridges.. IMPURE.Milk of Magnesia fom sewater 3.16 Acre feet YIEKD by VOLUME per 100 acre FEET RAW seawater, should be same zs 3.16 Cubic Hectares PRODUCT{ YIRLD from 100 Cubic Hectares of Raw Seawater ,keeing the units constant... At 350.00 USA /metric.ton NaOH crystals 222 tons Sodium Hydrixide pellets, ACS crade (TechnicaL Grade) should total 77,700 USDollarsm for 3.16 Acre feet o Milk of Magnesia, and 97/84 Acre feet of :Artly Desalinated Seawater. siuted for further desalination, with a PRICE of 77,700 dollars for 96.Acrefeet of psrtly desalinated seawater ,ans a market r mixed insoluble metakllic hydroxide minerals of Seawater, plus the very limited mrket fr Thorium gydrixide in incandescebt gause mantles r LPD/propane Camping lanterns... The question: can a Clandestine chenical doing no acids make a fast dollar of a water plant proprietor in Cahoots r psrtneshi, corporate subsidiry reltonship? <blanked> needs t find out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.130.133.117 (talk) 20:49, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Have you tried the Science section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia. For your convenience, here is the link to post a question there: click here. I hope this helps. Please note however, you must do your own homework. TNXMan 20:51, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I can't tell what you are asking, because I can't be bothered to plough through all the mistypings and odd punctuation. If you want people to answer you, it helps 1) to post your questions at the right place (this page is for help about using Wikipedia, as it says at the top) and 2) to make the effort to make it easily readable. --ColinFine (talk) 00:09, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit comparison tool

Resolved

I once saw a tool that compared the edit histories of two users, returning a list of pages edited by both. Can anyone tell me where to find that tool? Thanks, WikiDao ☯ (talk) 21:29, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

The tool you need is called 'Wikistalk' and it is here. -- John of Reading (talk) 22:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I think what I remember seeing was something a bit different... but that works! Thanks! :) WikiDao ☯ (talk) 23:08, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps Intersect Contribs is what you were remembering. Deor (talk) 01:12, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

That's the one I had seen before, yup, thanks! WikiDao ☯ (talk) 03:14, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia in Nahuatl

Hello,

I was admiring your Nahuatl version of Wikipedia, and I would like to get into contact with some of the contributers and editors who are fluent in Nahualt. How would I go about doing this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.73.108.106 (talk) 21:53, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

This help desk if for the English Wikipedia; you need to ask your question on the Nahuatl Wikipedia. - David Biddulph (talk) 21:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

If you click the "Tlahcuilōlli tlahcuilōlloh" button on the top of any page at that wikipedia, that will give you a list of editors there who have edited that page. Then clicking the "Tēixnāmiquiliztli" link next to a user's name will take you to that person's talk page, where you can leave a message for them. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 22:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

There is limited activity at the Nahuatl Wikipedia. You can click the "Yancuīc tlapatlaliztli" link at the upper left to see all recent changes and find the recently active editors. Note that usernames ending in "Bot" are usually bots and not people, and if there is an IP address like your 208.73.108.106 above instead of a username then the editor may never see the message. I don't know the language and cannot guide you to a general contact page. Here at the English Wikipedia you may find users knowing the language at Category:User nah. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Page moves and archives

When a page is moved, the associated talk page is also moved automatically. Are talk page archives also move automatically, or is this something I should watch out for? Astronaut (talk) 23:37, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Properly archived talk pages should be subpages of the talk page. If a page or its talk page has subpages then the move form has a field "Move subpages (up to 100), if applicable", or "Move subpages of talk page (up to 100)". By default it's not checked so you should check it to include them in the move. You can see what it looks like by clicking "Move" at top of a page without clicking the "Move page" button afterwards. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:13, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

See also Help:Moving a page#Talk subpages. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:15, 3 December 2010 (UTC)