Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 January 26

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January 26

Table help

I'm horrible with tables, can someone fix the table at Democratic_Party_(United_States)#LGBT_Americans, and make the % column smaller and the candidate's name larger? CTF83! 00:59, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

The old version is [1]. How about this reformatting to a narrow right-floating table in order Year-Candidate-Vote: [2]? PrimeHunter (talk) 03:01, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

wrong information about psychosis and cannabis

In this article:

Psychosis#Psychiatric disorders

There is a line that says that chances for psychosis increase with cannabis consumption. This information is inaccurate. Cannabis actually causes cannabis to develop earlier in populations who would have developed it later no matter what. Specifically, it tends to make schizophrenic symptoms appear around the age of 17-20 years in men with genetic histories of schizophrenia.

This is an important distinction to make, and your article as it stands is erroneous.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.50.254.22 (talk) 01:48, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Firstly, I think you have mistyped the sentence that says "Cannabis actually causes cannabis to develop earlier..." You may want to correct that.

Secondly, what's in Wikipedia articles should be sourced to reliable sources. Can you do that please? HiLo48 (talk) 02:00, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

How to add an article about someone with the same name as someone else on Wikipedia

I'd like to add an article about the cinematographer Peter Stein (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0806003/) but there's already an article about a different Peter Stein. I know that sometimes when I search the site I'm given multiple options for the result. How would I do this for an article about Peter. I have many sources. I made a page that was titled Peter Stein, ASC but I asked for it to be deleted because I realized that it wouldn't be easily searchable. Thanks in advance for your help! Kate Freer — Preceding unsigned comment added by K8tefree (talk • contribs) 01:55, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

You would create the page with the title "Peter Stein (Cinematographer)" or something similiar. Then you could add a WP:Hatnote to the other Peter Stein page that says "If you're looking for the other Peter Stein, click here". RudolfRed (talk) 02:18, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

It should be lower case Peter Stein (cinematographer). There are already many in Category:American cinematographers. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:32, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I have done some cleaning up of the article but the tone of the text is quite laudatory, as if it was written for PR purposes. Unfortunately I don't have the time to rewrite it more neutrally so would someone else please have a go at it. The films he has worked on should probably be separated from the narrative and listed in a separate section. Roger (talk) 09:07, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Eric Zorn

Can someone with an expertise in BLPs please look at Eric Zorn to see if it should be deleted? To me, the article is like a fan page and a promotional piece, even including multiple direct links to Zorn's blog and former podcast. And there are no reliable sources at all; the only sources are to the subject's own newspaper columns. He's a newspaper blogger/columnist, but I'm pretty sure that he doesn't meet the notability guidelines. There's also some nonsense content such as "Eric has a grandkitty, Wednesday Zing, by way of his son Alex and Alex's girlfriend, Kayley", "each December Zorn joins with Schmich to host "Songs of Good Cheer", the entire "Columns of note" section, and others. Also, the names of several non-notable relatives of Zorn are wikilinked. The IP editor who created the article also created an article for Eric Zorn's wife, Johanna Zorn, on the very same day. That one also wikilinked to non-notable family members (which were removed). I assume the creator of both articles is a close friend or relative of the couple. Johanna Zorn's article is currently set for deletion, but I was hoping someone who's really good with BLPs can look at Eric Zorn's and, if you determine he's not notable, pursue whatever deletion process is appropriate as that's something that's way too confusing for me. And if you think he is notable, can you clean up the article and remove all the bad content and sources? There would be a lot to remove. ;) Thanks. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 03:55, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree Mlpearc (powwow) 04:25, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Mlpearc, thank you very much for the quick help. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 04:38, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Update: a great editor has established notability and did a great of overhauling the article. The subject is not only a columnist for a major newspaper, but also wrote a book which was turned into a movie, which is what pushed him from being just another reporter to notability. The editor transformed a blatant fan page with no sources into a credible, well-sourced stub, getting rid of all the junk. He plans on expanding the article. Thanks again, Mlpearc. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 09:36, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Category:Unitarian Universalist Wikipedian seminary students

Can someone show me how to fix Category:Unitarian Universalist Wikipedian seminary students, which is included in itself. I think it has something to do with the user template. Thanks, Illia Connell (talk) 04:45, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the userbox included the category. It had the nocat parameter set to yes, so I'm not sure why it did that. I've simply replaced {{User:Redfarmer/UU Seminarian}} with the page's code, except for the category and some includeonly chunks. Nyttend (talk) 06:10, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Illia Connell (talk) 06:24, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Use of "unreliable source?" tag

If someone adds "unreliable source?" tags to sources that are unquestionably reliable, can they be removed? There are two of them in this section of an article. I am involved, so I don't want to remove them, so I was hoping there's a very experienced editor or admin that can make a determination on this. If you look at the sources, I think you'll instantly see that they are definitely reliable. Thanks. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 06:15, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

The issue seems to be that multiple reliable sources are conflicting. Looking at the documentation for {{Verify credibility}}, it's suggested usage is "when a statement is sourced, but it is questionable whether the source used is reliable for supporting the statement." The part about "reliable for supporting the statement", not whether the publisher is generally reliable, seems to make this tag suitable for the article. Throwing aside the issue of whether or not there is a better tag, the main problem that needs to be discussed is how to present the information in the conflicting sources. The tag is just a red herring.—Bagumba (talk) 07:40, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Bagumba, thanks for your great input here and on the article's page. I'm glad we were able to get the issue resolved. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 09:47, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

citation Needed

When editing a page and i see a statement not backed up by a citation that would requier one what do i do? I have so far been adding [Citation needed] but is there some official thing i should put there that links to something?

Thanks Retrolord (talk) 06:57, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

You could also add a citation if it seems easy for you to do so. See Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners for how to do this. --Jayron32 07:21, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Question about cite error

regarding User:Janetfix/John Emil Halver, Ph. D.#Request review at WP:AFC

I do NOT understand what the following message means:

Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page, but the references will not show without a {{Reflist}} template or a <references /> tag; see the help page. Note: this box will always show the "en — English" version of the message Category Pages with missing references list System message page Cite error refs without references

I very carefully put <ref> before each reference and ended it with </ref>. Does the above message mean that I need to go back and make a list of the inserted references at the end of the article? OR Does it mean I have to write one word at the end (such as </references> or {{reflist}} or some such thing? What is a {{reflist}} template and where do I put it? This is the only article I will be submitting (ever), but it is an important one. I already read the stuff on the help desk and FAQ pages and its confusing. Please do not answer my questions in Wikipedia editors lingo, since I obviously do not speak that. Plain layman's English, please. Janetfix (talk) 07:21, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

You put a section at the end of the article titled "References" and use the {{reflist}} template as the only text of that section. The software does the rest for you automagically. See also Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners which addresses all of the problems you are having, and possibly any others, and does so in plain, layman's English. --Jayron32 07:26, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it was a typo, but "automagically" made me laugh. - a boat that can float! (watch me float) 11:29, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

wikt:automagically -- John of Reading (talk) 11:49, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Oh, all right then. - a boat that can float! (watch me float) 13:10, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

A First Article - Need for Reliable References

I want to submit my first article that is about my father Roy Chaplin (1899-1988), an aircraft designer with Hawkers for 37 years. I understand and accept that wikipedia entries require reliable references; I have many. However I also want to include material from my father's own personal unpublished notes and from my own family memories as his son. Is this acceptable? Or have I got to publish this material elswhere first? Thnak you - Jon Chaplin — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathan Chaplin (talk • contribs) 10:41, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Would your article meet the Wikipedia:Notability guidelines and would your references meet the Wikipedia:Verifiability#Burden of evidence guidelines?

Also, would the person your writing about be considered notable enough for an entry on Wikipedia? Keeping in mind this is an encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Retrolord (talk • contribs) 10:49, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Jonathan Chaplin. Welcome to Wikipedia. You are right to be concerned about the acceptable use of unpublished material and family memories on Wikipedia. If reliable third party sources are not available for everything you assert in the article, such assertions may be removed. Perhaps you could let us see one or two of the "many" reliable references you say you have?

In addition, consider reading Your first article and Starting an article. You may find it useful to create the article first as a sub-page in your user-space or alternately you could use the Article creation wizard. @Retrolord is correct. The notability of your father needs to be established but there are many Wikipedians willing to help you determine that. For the record, I assisted the son of T Peter Brody to write his fathers biography --Senra (talk) 11:19, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

A quick google books search using the string "roy chaplin hawker" reveals some references (e.g. Fozard 1991 Sydney Camm and the Hurricane. p. 66) which would tentatively indicate that Roy Chaplin OBE (1899–1988) may be notable enough for inclusion within Wikipedia --Senra (talk) 13:41, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Proposed Deletion

If i have nominated a page for proposed deletion and have placed the tag, after 7 days how do i delete the page?

Will it be done automatically or do i need an admin to do it for me?

Thanks.Retrolord (talk) 10:47, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Only admins can delete pages; however they will watch the category PRODs are placed in regularly. - a boat that can float! (watch me float) 11:21, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Retrolord, read WP:PROD. Good luck. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 12:31, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Only admins can delete pages. When you add the PROD tag it will appear in a dated category in here: Category:Proposed deletion. Then once the week is up an admin will delete it manually, but it's automatically added to the right category as soon as you tag it. As you can see the list of dates only goes back to January 20 because everything from January 19 (7 days ago) has been deleted already. James086^Talk 14:51, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

REGISTRATION OF FARMERS (E-WALLET)

I am an individual farmer that owes a medium size farm of fifteen (15) acres land in Ogun state. I rear various kind of animals such as pigs, chickens birds,snails, etc.Also farming of corns, garden eggs, cassava etc. Then, the problem and the point is that i do not belong to any political party and neither do i have or known anybody in the ministry of agriculture, state or federal. The question now is how do i get myself registered as a farmer and the necessary things i have to arms with to enable me benefit from the federal government seedlines and others. Please help, and i know there are many others in my position so the answers should be poblish on this page for every one to assess. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.190.3.27 (talk) 11:08, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm afraid you have come to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, and therefore we will not be able to assist you. - a boat that can float! (watch me float) 11:20, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. Roger (talk) 12:19, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

How to create a category

Maybe I am missing something obvious, but how exactly do I create a page in the Category namespace (ie a category)? For example, when I view a redlinked category in edit mode, I see an empty page. Does that mean I can only turn a redlinked category into a bluelinked one by adding some text to it? Is there a solution to create a category without adding text to it? -- Toshio Yamaguchi 11:56, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Normally categories are categorised as well so if you add an appropriate category it will change the category to a bluelink. Have a look at other category pages in edit mode to see what they look like. MilborneOne (talk) 12:07, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Interesting, it was not clear to me that you cannot create a category without creating (or finding) a super category (or whatever it is called) for it first. What would be an appropriate super category for Category:Hospitals in Oceania? -- Toshio Yamaguchi 12:19, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

After looking at Category:Hospitals in Ireland, I suggest Category:Health in Oceania and Category:Buildings and structures in Oceania. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:25, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Most of the time, you could also just add a short blurb like "This category contains articles about hospitals in Oceania". Salvidrim! ✉ 12:28, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

(ec)All categories must have at least one parent category (the usual term used here on en.WP). The category system is a tree-like hierachical structure, orphan categories are basically useless. About the specific category you want to create, IMHO it is not an apropriate category to place directly on an artilce. The article concerned, which is presumably about one hospital, should be "Category:Hospitals in <Country>" or even more localised if possible. Using "continental" groupings would not be useful - just think how huge and unmanagable "Hospitals in North America" or "Hospitals in Europe" would be. Such categories would only be used as container categories, meaning that they contain only subcategories, not individual articles. As a general principle the categories that articles are directly placed in must be at the most refined level possible - in the case of hospitals there are categories down to individual state/province/region level and in some cases all the way down to a single city. Roger (talk) 12:38, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

The page in question is User:Toshio Yamaguchi/List of hospitals in the Federated States of Micronesia. I would create Category:Hospitals in the Federated States of Micronesia for this, but I need an appropriate super-category for this first. That means I would first have to create Category:Hospitals in Oceania. Maybe that's just me, but I find the need to use something like Category:Health in Oceania or Category:Buildings and structures in Oceania a bit awkward. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 12:47, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, I created Category:Hospitals in Oceania and made Category:Hospitals in the Federated States of Micronesia a subcategory of that one. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 13:03, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I added Category:Hospitals by country to Category:Hospitals in the Federated States of Micronesia to make it consistent with all other such categories. Take a look at Category:Hospitals in Australia or Category:Hospitals in New Zealand (both countries in Oceania)to see how this type of categorisation is usually done. There are no other supranational/continental categories such as this, so IMHO Category:Hospitals in Oceania serves no useful purpose and should not have been created. It's a "maverick" category which does not fit into the established hierarchy. Roger (talk) 13:24, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I think Category:Hospitals in Oceania is equivalent to, say Category:Hospitals in Africa, which is the continental super category for the categories of the african hospital lists by state. Thus Category:Hospitals in Oceania would be the super category for the national hospital list categories by states in Oceania. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 13:38, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Community cohesion

What should be done with a very short article, such as Community cohesion, which has no sources at all and has had an {{unreferenced}} tag on it for many years (six)? Someone just added a second paragraph yesterday. Like the first paragraph, it's written well but has no citations. I tried finding reliable sources for the existing content, but couldn't find any. I did not remove any content; only did some general cleanup. Thanks. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 12:24, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps it should be merged? Salvidrim! ✉ 12:28, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

To me it it's closer to a dictionary definition than an encyclopaedia article. I'd be tempted to consider the transwiki route: see Wikipedia:Dicdef#Misplaced dictionary entries. - Karenjc 12:45, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Karen, that's a really interesting perspective. I never thought of it that way. I pondered about it a bit and tried to think of similar types of terms to see if they have WP articles. I didn't have to look far... take a look at all the listings in the "See also" section of the article. Aren't all of those terms comparable to community cohesion? I know very little about the subject, but aren't all these terms perhaps more like a system, concept, or movement rather than a dictionary definition? I really am not sure; it's just my rough thinking on it. There's even a professional organization called The Institute of Community Cohesion, which is an external link in the article. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 12:58, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I did some quick research and apparently community cohesion is big in the U.K.. It's also used in other parts of the world, including the U.S., but I believe the U.K. is the heart of where it's applied. My only concern is the fact that the article's been completely unsourced for the entire six years it's been up. My feeling is that unless someone cites the content very soon, the article should be deleted. And if someone wants to re-create it later, with proper sourcing, that would be fine. Hasn't six years been far more than enough time to do that? But I'll leave the best course of action up to experienced editors. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 13:17, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

As I read it there seems to be little or no substantive difference between this article and Social cohesion which is in a (marginally) better condition. They should be merged - if there is any content worth keeping. Roger (talk) 13:28, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I appreciate all the input so far. Is there anyone who's really experienced with an issue like this who has enough confidence to do something appropriate with the article, whatever that may be? All I know is that an article of four sentences (two until yesterday) with no sources in its six years of existence should be dealt with now. Thanks, in advance, to anyone who can take appropriate action. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 16:14, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Britains balance

Dear Sir/Madam.

I am trying to locate information regarding Britains balances (in the black or red) for the years since 1950.

Can you help please.

Many thanks.

Mr R Harmer — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.255.5 (talk) 14:45, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 15:43, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

To possibly save you a journey, consider if current account or capital account (both part of the balance of payments) answers your question then search the Office of National Statistics web site for historical information. Otherwise, as @Sphilbrick says, you need to ask the question in the humanities section of the reference desk --Senra (talk) 16:09, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Whoa, SPhilbrick—easy on the templates. I suspect that Mr. Harmer is looking for historical information about either the U.K.'s balance of trade, or their government budget balance (budget deficit or surplus). I can't readily locate that information in our articles, unfortunately, but it's not unreasonable for someone to expect that a comprehensive encyclopedia might have it. United Kingdom national debt does include charts showing the total debt (not deficit) relative to GDP by year.) As your boilerplate text says, he may find it useful to ask the helpful folks over at the Wikipedia Reference Desk for help in finding sources. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:15, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Of course it is reasonable to think it may be in the encyclopedia, but it is not a help desk function to do the research, although of course, anyone can. That's why we have the reference desk, which is where I pointed OP.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 16:22, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

kidney function

Italic textlic text'' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Koitattoo55 (talk • contribs) 14:52, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Do you have a question?--SPhilbrick(Talk) 15:43, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Translation article.

Hi there. I got a question on translations of article from English Wiki into other language. Is it allowed and what is the copyright status, since under GNU Free Documentation License text status, all contributor need to be acknowledge, but translated edit history will not have the original contributor (english) there. Please advice, since it is faster for me to translate that rewrite the whole article. Yosri (talk) 14:58, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

You can translate an article when you credit the source. Always make a link to the source in the edit summary where you added translated content. Other practices can vary between languages but a notice on the talk page, or for some languages the article itself, is generally good. Some languages have templates for this, for example {{Translated page}}. See more at Wikipedia:Translation. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:05, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

See Help:Import. Certain languages can import entire articles from English, and if you're working on translating one of those articles, attribution will be easy because the entire page history is present. The German Wikipedia often does this; see the history of de:Ginn’s Furniture Store, which includes the first several revisions of our Ginn's Furniture Store article. Nyttend (talk) 20:56, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Since importer cross wiki require special levels, I guess I will simply create a import tag for those pages, which is much easier. Yosri (talk) 10:34, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Unable to move to Article

I'm trying to move this link to (Article) Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Milroy Goes

so Kindly move This link: Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Milroy Goes

to

Milroy Goes — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iwritingoes (talk • contribs) 15:30, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

 Done--SPhilbrick(Talk) 15:45, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

AfD help needed

The subject of Taryn Khanam wants to nominate for deletion. I don't know the process well enough to help. She has started, and may think she is done, but it clearly isn't. (I'll add an OTRS ticket link to the reasons after the page is created.)--SPhilbrick(Talk) 15:39, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

It would be helpful to know what reason for deletion is claimed here. Spot-checking the article and the sources, there seem to be problems with establishing notability. But without a properly articulated rationale for deletion, I think the tag should be removed, as I don't immediately see the article satisfying one of the reasons at WP:DEL#REASON. It might satisfy for speedy deletion under CSD G11, though I have to admit I am not very experienced with that. I don't see the article as being written in a particularly promotional tone though. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 15:59, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I understand. I'm not at liberty to divulge what was in her email.

Would subject requests deletion for privacy reasons be insufficient?

Unfortunately, I have to run. Will check in later.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 16:19, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't think Wikipedia normally deletes articles on request by the subject. If it were something like an attack page or completely unreferenced, that would be something else, but I don't see that this is the case here. I think everything that isn't directly extractable from the given sources should be removed though. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 16:32, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Generally, a request by the subject is not sufficient. However, in close calls, as this may be, and where the information contained is itself outdated (purportedly), the subjects views might sway some !voters.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 16:41, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I can't say much more without knowing the exact concerns raised regarding this article. I don't see the article containing any unpublished personal information or containing any other threatening information though, so (from my standpoint as a volunteer editor of Wikipedia) I do not see an immediate need to touch the article. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 16:59, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

The second paragraph in the section Education and career should probably be removed completely. The given source doesn't seem to be what Wikipedia would consider a reliable source. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 17:06, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

The last sentence of the AFD template on the article says:"If the nomination is not completed and no message is left on the talkpage, this tag may be removed." No rationale has been provided by the nominator, no Discussion has been opened at AFD, thus this nomination is indeed "not completed" and the template should be removed. If a private issue has been raised at OTRS that is a separate process. Roger (talk) 17:29, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

There is a rationale given on the talk page of the editor that added the AFD template, User talk:Applepie2013. It is basically privacy issues. GB fan 17:44, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

The rationale needs to be on the currently nonexistent AFD discusion. However having read it, it looks to me like a simple "I don't like it" argument which carries absolutely no weight. Roger (talk) 18:32, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

There is a lot of unreferenced information (for example the information in the infobox), for which citations need to be provided or this information should be removed completely. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 18:56, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

That is a separate issue unrelated to the incomplete AFD nomination. Roger (talk) 22:40, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

contributors posting untruths erTrain2Game

Sirs

There is no polite way to say the users ‎ David Gerard and Pinkbeast are liars

David Gerard claims "skillstrain is in fact the same company as train2game" a 100% LIE

Pinkbeast "(Evidently TIGA does not represent the industry as a whole and WP should not suggest that it does.)" Oh that's why it lobbies the UK Government on behalf of the industry, has members such as the BBC. Microsoft and the vast majority of the better games company plus the indie gamers - not only that the Prince's Trust.

Also TIGA does not operate Train2Game - another lie.

The email from the Foundation is being forwarded around the student community - that says who is responsible for the lies. I wish them good fortune with there official complaints and public campaign to highlight the liars — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.112.79.171 (talk) 17:38, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

The place to discuss this is at Talk:Train2Game. Your complaints are outside the scope of this help desk. Dismas|^(talk) 17:41, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Train2game edit shown below

"1] TIGA, a trade association representing some firms in the UK games industry, provides a diploma upon successful completion of Train2Game courses.[2"

In correct, the examination body is either TIGA or City & Guilds depending on the course - this SO WRONG to believe people who know nothing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.112.79.171 (talk) 17:42, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Train2Game MORE LIES

"In 2006 Skillstrain, another trading name of the same company, then trading as Scheidegger, was investigated by the BBC."

Skillstrain is not the same company as Train2Game and any claims and/or suggestions it is is a 100% Lie — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.112.79.171 (talk) 17:45, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Train2Game contribution total mistake

" Watchdog investigated Skillstrain and claimed that the company had falsified supposed endorsements by Microsoft"

If Train2Game is the same as SkillsTrain would someone like to explain why Microsoft do so much with Train2Game even to the extent of giving them BizSpark accreditation which can be checked with such ease — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.112.79.171 (talk) 17:48, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Please take these discussions to Talk:Train2Game. GB fan 17:51, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) As noted above, you need to raise these issues at Talk:Train2Game. Also, please choose language which is less confrontational. People tend to respond better and you'll get better results if you don't call people liars. That is, if you want to see the article changed, don't use the word "lies" or "liar" or "untruths" or use inflammatory language. Keep a cool head, provide sources, and you'll stand a much better chance of getting what you want. --Jayron32 17:53, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Message for Deskana

"Deskana (talk | contribs)‎ . . (5,423 bytes) (+43)‎ . . (Fix. The source does not say TIGA "operates" Train2Game, merely that they are partly responsible for it and offer a diploma for completing it.)"

with respect someone is giving you rubbish information - it is either TIGA or City and Guilds depending on the course and the view of the student.

Source City and Guilds speaking to Train2Game at the Gadget Show live - viewing via Youtube — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.112.79.171 (talk) 18:01, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

See above. Please post to User talk:Deskana or Talk:Train2Game. This help desk is NOT the correct venue. --Jayron32 18:02, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

With respect Jayron, a) there is no box to post on either; b) this has been going on for years and even offering factual truths they still get hijacked. If this is not the place to share problems, and all other routes have failed - where can people air problems? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.112.79.171 (talk) 18:07, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

See Help:Using talk pages for information on how to start new discussions on talk pages. Use the "new section" link at the top of Talk:Train2Game to do so. --Jayron32 18:21, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

After posting your new discussion on the talk page of that article, you can open a request for comment that will attract the attention of uninvolved editors who can help resolve the issues. (also for other helpdesk editors passing through, please note that this page has been semi-protected). Tiggerjay (talk) 01:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Redirect page before Requested move ended?

Resolved

 – I restored the page back then. Hope that editor will not redirect back without any agreement. WhiteWriter^speaks 12:09, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Can one of involved editors redirect the page during requested move process, or page must me "on" during the requested move? I mean, can page be redirected during requested move or not? --WhiteWriter^speaks 19:21, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not entirely clear on what you are talking about. However typically when there is a requested move discussion taking place on the talk page, consensus must be reached before the page is moved. Sometimes in good faith, an editor may move the page without consulting the talk page, at which, you should contact the editor, and, if possible undo the move and refer them to the ongoing discussion. And involved editor in the move discussion should not move a page before consensus has been reach and it would be considered bad faith to do so. Bring it up with them on their talk page. If necessary, seek an administrator for assistance. Tiggerjay (talk) 01:52, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, i have restored page back during RM. Editor finds this subject non notable, so he redirect page per that. I think that page should not be moved at least during RM, and after all, we should follow wiki guidelines. Hope that editor will not redirect again. --WhiteWriter^speaks 12:00, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

MacBook Pro automated reader

When using Wikipedia on MacBook, is it possible to remove the inline citations so that the automated reader doesn't read the footnote marker; for example, "After the Union of the Crowns, he based himself in England (the largest of the three realms) from 1603, only returning to Scotland once in 1617, and styled himself "King of Great Britain and Ireland".[2]" When you choose "start reading," the 'reader' reads aloud "2," and it's very annoying, especially when some articles have 50, 60, 70 citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.66.75.91 (talk) 19:46, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Which version of OS X is installed on your MacBook Pro? In OS X Mountain Lion, open the VoiceOver Utility from System Preferences-->Accessibility-->VoiceOver. Select Web from the left navigation pane then select the Web Rotor tab and disable Links. Following this change, neither Wikilinks nor footnote markers (inline citations) are voiced. I have tested this on a mid-2012 MacBook Pro running OS X 10.8.2 using Safari and the Wikipedia page James VI and I. I hope this helps --Senra (talk) 23:23, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Broken GAN following previous move?

The follow this link part of the GA header at Ely and Littleport riots of 1816 codes to a GA1 but this is the second GA nomination for this article. The follow this link should code to GA2 I believe. I suspect the problem was caused by a previous article move from Ely and Littleport riots 1816 to Ely and Littleport riots of 1816. How can this be fixed? Should the previous review at Ely and Littleport riots 1816/GA1 be moved to Ely and Littleport riots of 1816/GA1? What else (if anything) needs to be fixed? See also User talk:Senra#Page move request and User talk:JohnCD/Archive 22#Page move complexity. Note: I suggest you do not click the follow this link unless you want to start the review! --Senra (talk) 22:29, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I moved the GA1 page and changed the GA page number.[3] PrimeHunter (talk) 00:03, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you --Senra (talk) 00:08, 27 January 2013 (UTC)