Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/Society/Archive 8

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Remove Disney Experiences

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Receives only a fraction of pageviews, and has only a fraction of the interwikis, of Disneyland and Disney World, which are also listed at VA5 pbp 19:18, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. pbp 19:18, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 20:22, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 02:12, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:48, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
5. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:27, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:03, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove International Table Hockey Federation

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A federation for a niche sport, table hockey, which we don't list. This could be a swap, but I feel it would be better to just remove, because table hockey isn't as widely known as table football.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:43, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 23:12, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 02:12, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:26, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:40, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Support a swap with table football. Gizza (talk) 08:11, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

   Table football  5 is already V5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:04, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

7. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 05:25, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. Would you consider nominating Table football  5? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:40, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

   Nevermind, that is already V5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:04, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

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Remove The Walking Dead (video game)

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While the game was a commercial success and definitely somewhat influential, I can't see how it would qualify to be among the most important subjects for an encyclopedia. The show? Absolutely. The game or the comics? Not so much. Nothing in the article demonstrates a long-lasting legacy, and the Video games WikiProject lists it as only a Mid-importance article. Not even its own developer is around these days.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 23:23, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. No way this should be listed over The Last of Us  5. starship.paint (RUN) 01:09, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support per nominator. The Blue Rider 15:35, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 22:11, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Seems forgotten now. I read game news and reviews which mentions some enduring title - don't recall this one. As Starship notes, The Last of Us might be a swap to consider. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 23:08, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Support swap with TLOU, oppose simple removal, I feel like we should have at least one of these story-driven/interactive movie type games. Kevinishere15 (talk) 23:49, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Swap with TLOU. The Walking Dead is first and foremost known for the TV series. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 04:02, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
8. Support swap with TLOU, oppose simple removal like Kevinishere15. The game has some legacy its article fails to mention, making a simple removal a bit hasty in my opinion; but TLOU is more famous and would be a fairly solid replacement.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
9. Support and swap for TLOU. GreenishPickle! (🔔) 00:58, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

"Telltale-style games" became a trend for quite a while. Quickly Googling "the walking dead telltale influence" provides several articles like this - although mostly ones at the time of Telltale's closure, so maybe to be taken with a grain of salt.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 08:04, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add Armenian Revolutionary Federation

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The ARF has had over a century of history, in which it has been rather influential. Founded in 1890 to campaign for Armenian independence, it was a prominent participant in the Russian Revolution of 1905  4, the Persian Constitutional Revolution  4 and the Young Turk Revolution  5. During the earliest days of the Armenian genocide  4, its members were targetted and murdered. It led the resistance to the genocide, culminating with its establishment of the First Armenian Republic and later an assassination campaign, in which it killed the main perpertrators of the genocide, including Talaat Pasha  4. After the Republic was dissolved by the Soviets, the ARF became massively influential in the Armenian diaspora, gaining a particularly large influence in Lebanon, where it fought in the civil war and is still a major party up until today. After the independence of Armenia, it became one of the main political parties in the country and was particularly influential in the Republic of Artsakh  5 and in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict  5. The article for the ARF has 40 interwikis and averages 352 daily pageviews. I think the ARF is certainly a vital subject worth listing in our section on political parties. --Grnrchst (talk) 11:53, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --Grnrchst (talk) 14:11, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
3. I don't know anything about ARF, but per nom.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:40, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:07, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Sympathy  5

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A somewhat weaker concept than Empathy  4 but should be appropriate for V5.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 08:40, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
4. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:23, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Basic. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:16, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:38, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Blue Cross Blue Shield Association

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They provide health insurance to about 1/3 (115 million people) of the United States.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:17, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom.TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:17, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:23, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 08:40, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Strong oppose. Such a niche thing providing a type of insurance to less than half of a single country's population. The Blue Rider 13:59, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per blue rider. Way too America-centric. Aurangzebra (talk) 05:27, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per TBR. starship.paint (RUN) 09:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

Does anyone know what insurance companies are listed? J947 ‡ ^edits 09:23, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Vehicle simulation game

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Simulation video game  5 is only VA5, and this has some amount of overlap with Racing game  5. It also has a low amount of interwikis among the genres on the list. There are other genres that should be listed instead, such as Fighting game  5.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:58, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 15:00, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:47, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:09, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Call of Duty Championship

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Esports  5 are becoming more popular, but I think they are too recent a phenomenon. This one suggests systemic bias.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:22, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Esports  5 is enough, and Call of Duty Championship is too new (established in 2013 according to the infobox). ~150 daily pageviews, 2 interwikis.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:01, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 07:02, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
5. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:31, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:13, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Not even sure if this is the first esports tournament I would list. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
8. per nom. λ NegativeMP1 04:44, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest

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Not every sport should include an individual competition. Competitive eating  5 is already niche.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:29, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:15, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:43, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add The Chronic (potential swap with Nuthin' but a 'G' Thang  5)

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I feel like any vitality that “Nuthin’ but a ‘G’ Thang” has can easily be applied to its parent album. I have seen people praise The Chronic for drastically changing the hip-hop landscape like what Nevermind did for rock, and even music in general. Now, I’m largely just interested in adding The Chronic (both Nevermind  5 and Smells Like Teen Spirit  5 are on here), but I have no issue having to swap “Nuthin’ but a ‘G’ Thang” for it. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:29, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. 09:30, 28 February 2024 (UTC)SailorGardevoir (talk)
2. Support swap --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support swap Iostn (talk) 23:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:43, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Kinky Boots (musical)  5 and Somewhere (song) with The Sound of Music and Ol' Man River

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Of all the musical works listed under musicals, these two are probably the least vital. Although Kinky Boots won a bunch of Tonys, so do a lot of other musicals not here. (Personally, I think that Matilda musical that came out around the same time is more vital.) This is especially glaring since we don’t have The Sound of Music on here, which is much more vital. Yes, we have two other Rodger and Hammerstein musicals on here, and the film version is a level 4, but I think we can afford Hammerstein’s last musical on here.

Meanwhile, I don’t think “Somewhere” is more vital than “America” or “Maria”. However, instead of choosing another song from West Side Story, I’m going instead pick “Ol’ Man River”. I think this song that is heavily associated with Paul Robeson is vital enough on its own, even if we already have Show Boat on here.

Support

1. As nom. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:37, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Partial Support. The Sound of Music (film)  4 is already in the list, so I'd only support removing Kinky Boots and Somewhere, and adding Ol' Man River. --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Sound of music indeed is more vital --EleniXDD※Talk 06:46, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
4. I support the song swap. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:34, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I am not sure what version of SOM is more vital (film or musical). I do think Kinky Boots might be the least vital of the listed Musicals. Maybe The Producers (musical)  5 is as far down the pecking order. I am just not sure this is the best swap because I conflate the film and the musical in terms of vitality. Until I have a clearer substitute, I will oppose KB, but could support the right swap.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:34, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

   @User:TonyTheTiger: The film is already on here as a Level 4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:33, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

   Let me then state that although I consider KB one of the less vital (along with The Producers, IMO) musicals on the list, I do consider it to be the only one of the few musical that strongly presents/supports LGBTQ+-themes. So I am not in a rush to remove it. It might not only be the only one of the few of the 29 musicals, but also the only one of the few of the 401 specific musical works that is strongly LGBTQ-themed.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:32, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

   How many works among the 401 specific musical works are tagged with WP:LGBT?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:09, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

   @SailorGardevoir, Makkool, and EleniXDD: just pinging the other discussants on this one to see if anyone wants to add perspective addressing the above LGBT comments. I am quite unsure whether this is in fact the most important (only vital work tagged) musical work to LGBT.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

   I don't know. I'm objecting to Kinky Boots mostly because that it's so recent. I think Cabaret (musical)  5 is enough for LGBT representation. Makkool (talk) 15:19, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

   Actually, I realize that LGBT has tagged Rent (musical)  5, but not Cabaret (musical)  5-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:25, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

   What Makool said. Also, it would be one thing if this musical is praised for furthering queer representation, but I don't think that's the case. SailorGardevoir (talk) 15:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

   User:Makkool, I am not necessarily the most politically correct discussant, so I mean this as an ally. There are not many subject areas on WP that LGBT representation would really be an important consideration. Of all the subject areas on WP, if any would be expected to accord the LGBT community proportional representation, musical theatre would be among the select few to do so. Thus, if the LGBT community is roughly 10% of the population and musicals have 29 vital articles we should have at least 2 or 3 tagged by LGBT to be according LGBT its representation. Thus Kinky Boots and Rent and sort of Caberet would actually be proper for us to accord LGBT proper representation in the musical theatre subject area.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:30, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

   Just reviewed Cabaret (musical)  5 plot and don't see LGBT theme. Although the background would lead you to expect some LGBT plot angle, I don't see one. So I don't see how Cabaret gets us toward "LGBT representation". I also don't think representation minimum should vary much from 10% because I don't know any other number that sounds right. And if we don't give LGBT representation in musical theater, where else do we do it.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:10, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

   I'm sorry Tony, but you are putting way too much thought into this musical that I don't think even the person who added this gave. Any discussion I have seen about Kinky Boots chiefly amounts to "did this deserve to beat Matilda the Musical at the Tonies?" And what do you mean you don't see LGBT themes in Cabaret? The Emcee character is queer as all hell! SailorGardevoir (talk) 17:18, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

   The WP synopsis does not present any queer element is what I mean. I.e., we do not present queer in the article and LGBT does not tag the article in its current state.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:03, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

   It's in Category:LGBT-related_musicals though, which I used as reference. Makkool (talk) 19:30, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

   I am sure Cabaret is a bit queer. However, when I read the WP:LEAD of Kinky Boots, I know the main character is a drag queen. Nothing in the LEAD or synopsis points to queer themes in Cabaret. I don't think I have seen Cabaret. The presence of a gay character does not really make something LGBT. The synopsis seems to focus on hetero love elements. Heck NYPD Blue had that character that Andy Sipowicz at times referred to a gay John (John Irvin). His presence did not make NYPD Blue an LGBT show. I don't know what gay themes arise due to this gay emcee. Maybe we should ask LGBT if they want to tag Cabaret. Even so, I just think there are few more queer friendly topics than musical theatre and if we are going to give LGBT proportional (10%) representation in any topic on WP, musical theater might be the single most important topic to represent LGBT themes. Thus, I don't see a good reason to remove Kinky Boots from VA.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

• Correcting myself. I guess I don't know musical theatre. I looked at Hairspray (musical)  5 and Hair (musical)  5 did not check most others. Both A Chorus Line  5 and The Producers (musical)  5 are tagged WP:LGBT. So we have 4 of 29 at musical theatre. I do think musical theater has the opportunity to be one of the few subjects that gives LGBT overrepresentation (>10%). Keeping Kinky Boots would keep 4 (since they don't currently tag Cabaret). 20th century Drama has 4 of 28 tagged LGBT: (Angels in America  5, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof  5, A Streetcar Named Desire  5, The Vagina Monologues  5), which is where I think musical theatre should be.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:18, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

  Tony, can you please just accept that I don't agree with your rationale for keeping Kinky Boots on here and move on? I'm starting to get sick of these paragraph-long replies. And no, musical theatre should stay in the specific musical works section. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:03, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

1. Oops, I did not mean put musical theater in drama. I meant that drama having 4 (over the 10% threshold which would be 3) of 28 LGBT-tagged articles is where I think musical theatre should be. I think musical theatre and drama are not above the representative level, something is wrong. However, I realize that Cabaret may count as a fifth LGBT-tagged for musical theatre. I think Kinky Boots may almost be the queerest musical we've got, but queer theme obviously not the deciding factor on vitality.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

   Drop it. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:07, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Indie game

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A shortened name for an independent video game, an indie game is a type of video game developed by a smaller studio, if not one single developer. The concept of an indie game is debated to have possibly existed for just as long as the concept of a video game has per Indie game#Before home computers. The only thing that could dispute that concept was the commercial sector of video games too underdeveloped to separate independent works. Some indie games, particularly Minecraft and Undertale, are themselves also considered vital articles (granted, Minecraft is no longer indie). Countless more have been considered some of the greatest games ever made by at least six publications. I think the general concept of an indie game being considered vital would be fair, if specific genres and elements of game development can be considered vital themselves.

If there are concerns about going over a quota or having too much video game representation, then a discussion in that regard can be held (I'm not too familiar with the process of what determines a vital article). In such a discussion, I would certainly hold that the broad concept of an indie game is a more important topic that some video games currently considered vital. λ NegativeMP1 22:09, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. λ NegativeMP1 22:09, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Indie game  5 is comparable to Independent music  5 & Independent film  5 which are V5 already. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:42, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per Piotrus, plus just how prevalent they have become. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:42, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:07, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Tourism

Considering that Tourism  3 is at level 3, we should list more subtopics of tourism than just Pilgrimage, Road trip and Sex tourism.

Add Space tourism

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It's funny how we list Virgin Galactic and Blue Origin  5 but not the service they provide.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 14:58, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
2. 48 intewikis, 400 ~daily page views. Of course. I just proposed it a day later (now blanking/redirecting that one) at Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles/Level/5/STEM#Add_emerging/futurism_concepts - do stop by :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:31, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:10, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 17:11, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:17, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not a major form of tourism by any measure, maybe in the future it will be. The Blue Rider 15:36, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Cultural tourism

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A growing form of tourism which encompasses various sub-types, including Culinary tourism.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 14:58, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:10, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Perhpas the second most popular form of tourism, just after balneary tourism. The Blue Rider 15:38, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:15, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Medical tourism

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A fast-growing form of tourism fueled by the diverging costs of healthcare treatments between different parts of the world and the growth in demand for non-essential treatments.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 14:58, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Weakly. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:42, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:10, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Too niche/localized. The Blue Rider 13:38, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

1. Does this include people crossing state borders for medical treatment?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:19, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

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Add Resort

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A very common type of venue where tourism takes place.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 02:10, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Common type of facility, could be fun to discuss at V4. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:42, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:10, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:57, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Ski resort

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Among types of resorts, this looks the most important/unique/notable to me. It also has more interwikis than Resort itself.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 02:14, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Weakly for now. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:42, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:57, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:04, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. We just added resort above on March 11. Unless that gets promoted to VA4, I think we should wait on this.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:20, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Honeymoon

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A very common form of tourism worldwide which has persisted for 200+ years. 46 interwikis.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 02:17, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Common cultural custom, enough for V5. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:42, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:10, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:43, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Tour guide

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A very common figure in the tourism industry.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 02:20, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. But is this a V5 profession? I am not sure. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:42, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

   Fair point. I agree that this is a weaker proposal than my other tourism ones. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 17:49, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

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Add Travel agency

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A fixture in society for 250+ years, and an evolving topic as the industry increasingly moves online.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 02:22, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Common enough business to be at V5. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:42, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:10, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:09, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add The Vanguard Group

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It is the largest provider of mutual funds and the second-largest provider of exchange-traded funds (ETFs) in the world ... Founder and former chairman John C. Bogle is credited with the creation of the first index fund available to individual investors and was a proponent and major enabler of low-cost investing by individuals. Many people around the world depend on Vanguard for their retirement.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 01:43, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:18, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:10, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:04, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Direct action

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A widely-used concept in analysis of activism, protests and political dissent.

Support

1. Nom Totalibe (talk) 23:45, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:29, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Weak support if we have quota. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:41, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:07, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap The Times They Are a-Changin' (song) with Blowin' in the Wind

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I’m kind of shocked that “The Times They Are a-Changin’” got picked over “Blowin’ in the Wind”. No offense to the former, but “Blowin’ in the Wind” has got to be Bob Dylan’s most famous song, at least when it comes to his pre-electric days. It’s this song that made everyone realize that Dylan was more than your one-of-the-mill folk singer. Peter, Paul, and Mary reached number two with this song. It is this song that inspired Sam Cooke to write “A Change Is Gonna Come  5”.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. makes sense Aurangzebra (talk) 11:13, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:39, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:39, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Literary genre removals

There's still some less obviously vital genres left in the literature section. There was good additions in this section recently, so I thought to suggest some removals for balance.

Remove Paranoid fiction

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Rated low-importance in Wikiproject Literature. The article lede doesn't indicate vitality either.

Support

1. As nom. --Makkool (talk) 20:39, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:13, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Seems pretty niche. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:58, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Support Low pageviews at ~66 a day.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:08, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
5. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Action fiction

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Spy fiction, adventure fiction, mystery fiction and thriller cover the same ground, and are much more important than this genre.

Support

1. As nom. --Makkool (talk) 20:39, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:13, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:08, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. I am not so sure. Action film  5 is a big thing and technically a type of medium should be under the broader fiction concept. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:58, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

   I think you would agree that this is in the wrong place then (in literature). What would you think, if we would list this in Mass media, next to Western (genre)  4? --Makkool (talk) 18:47, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Origin story

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Not very pivotal concept, mostly related with American comic books.

Support

1. As nom. --Makkool (talk) 20:39, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:13, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:08, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Listing American comic book  5 is enough. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:14, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
5. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. I am not sure this is not a big thing outside comic books. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:58, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

   At its current state the article talks overwhelmingly about only American comic books. There's another article called pourquoi story, which is about fairy tales for example that tell the origin of different things. It could be considered more vital, but it's only a stub article, so I would still remove origin story and not swap it with pourquoi story right now. --Makkool (talk) 06:57, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Flying Spaghetti Monster

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A dead meme basically. I think this is sufficiently covered by Parody religion  5.

Support

1. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:44, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:48, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 08:36, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Support; don't think we need Parody religion  5 either. J947 ‡ ^edits 09:06, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Parody religion is enough. Vileplume (talk) 23:17, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. A major parody religion that had widespread consequences on how people view religion. The Blue Rider 13:38, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Oppose --Thi (talk) 10:22, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Lightning McQueen

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The character seems to be becoming more popular and has been based on real-life sports. [1] [2]

Support

1. As nominator. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 04:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not a major fictional caracther. The Blue Rider 13:22, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Not the first Pixar character I would list. Don't know if he'd even make V6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:09, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Not even Cars (film) is VA5. Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
4. If any Pixar character were even close to V5, I think it would objectively be a character like Woody or Buzz Lightyear. λ NegativeMP1 00:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

@Greenish Pickle!: You've been making some pretty dubious fictional character nominations lately. Seriously, this and Princess Peach are not more vital than a second character from Chinese folklore. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:30, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I have made only 2 nominations, but after this I won't be attempting anymore. WP:BITE is unnecessary here when you also experienced that before after seeing your userpage. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 00:39, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Greenish Pickle!: I know that your two proposals are getting mostly opposes but please don't get discouraged, it takes some time to get a sense of what is vital or not. I'm sorry for the above comment as well; you're more than welcome to the VA project. Thanks. The Blue Rider 10:49, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Nonono, it is fine. I mean, I don't really have other articles to nominate since NegativeMP1 already handled it above. It's not like I will get discouraged immediately by a user above who hasn't contributed substantial, but just edit vital nominations. Thank you for the kind words. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 10:58, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Greenish Pickle!: I must apologize as well. That comment on my talk page was from an experienced user, and I wasn't sure of that policy at the time. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 11:36, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Aerial advertising

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The only kind of "advertising in *physical space*" article we list.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:02, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Too niche. Advertising agency would be a better addition if we are to list any subtopics of advertising. feminist🩸 (talk) 11:52, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:59, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 09:12, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Too niche. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:06, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 10:01, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Currency packaging

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Packaging  5 is only V5, and delicate handling of physical currency is less common due to the availability of other options.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:02, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Too niche. feminist🩸 (talk) 09:59, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:58, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Support --Makkool (talk) 20:40, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Not vital, very niche. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:35, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 14:33, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Lima Group

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I would rather have more Latin American representation, but this organization has not done much. Latin American countries are too divided and disinterested in the Crisis in Venezuela, except as a means to attack their domestic opponents.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:08, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support --Makkool (talk) 19:39, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
3. We generally have too many organizations and should remove quite a few. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:56, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:12, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Declaration of Interdependence

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A much lesser concept than Declaration of Independence. Zero interwikis.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:08, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support --Makkool (talk) 19:39, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:12, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 11:09, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:26, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Susan G. Komen for the Cure

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I don't see how this breast cancer organization stands out. Its numbers seem very modest.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:08, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Yea this is a weird inclusion when you consider the rest of this list. Aurangzebra (talk) 21:38, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Too niche. Gizza (talk) 01:54, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:08, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Nancy Brinker  5 is also listed under activists which I held off on noming for removal in favour of some of the more obscure ones, although seeing this here makes me reconsider.Iostn (talk) 21:47, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 10:02, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:29, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Law of Denmark and Law of the Republic of Ireland

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I am not sure what the optimal number of "Law by Country" articles should be, but for comparison, we have 35 "Economy by Country," 22 "Politics by Country," and 42 "Law by Country" articles. Along with New Zealand, these are the least populous countries we list.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:17, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Maybe swap in Offshore financial centre  5 in exchange for Irish law. I'll nominate that. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:50, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:13, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:46, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Lawyer-supported mediation and Party-directed mediation

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Sub-articles to Mediation  5. Probably too niche. Zero interwikis.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:17, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support I would struggle to be convinced that they would fit in the top 100,000 list too. Very, very specific. Gizza (talk) 01:56, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:44, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:13, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 10:03, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Law of New Zealand

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Per the Danish and Irish law nominations above. 24 daily views and just one interwiki. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:49, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:49, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support per nom. Gizza (talk) 01:44, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:11, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Should not be listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:03, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:04, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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How to not pay taxes

Add Tax evasion  5

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A major and growing concept worldwide.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:53, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:14, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 09:03, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Very important. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:36, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:42, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
6. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Tax avoidance  5

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Ditto

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:53, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:14, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 09:06, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Not as important as tax evasion, but should still be listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:42, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
6. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Offshore financial centre  5

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A group of vehicles used by corporations and rich people alike to avoid paying taxes.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:53, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:14, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 09:03, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Deus ex machina  5

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2,144 page views last year, second among articles on {{Narrative}} after Science fiction  4.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:03, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. More famous than bunch of villages or islands nobody ever heaard of some folks insist are vital at this level. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:04, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Very important, and I would say that plot devices can definitely be vital enough to make the list. I have nominated Foreshadowing  5 below. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:17, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:50, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:39, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not convinced plot devices are VA5-worthy. Even if people think they are, I think there are several that are more important than deus ex machina even though the latter has more views. For example, I'd argue foreshadowing is more important and it is listed as High-Importance on Wikiproject Literature (as opposed to Mid-importance for deus ex machina). Aurangzebra (talk) 06:44, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Irony  5

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A common rhetorical device and literary technique.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:09, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. definitely Aurangzebra (talk) 03:50, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Of course. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:02, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:37, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Sarcasm  5

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A common form of expression. Compare Satire  4.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:16, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:41, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:48, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Of course. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:37, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:39, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add H.M.S. Pinafore, The Pirates of Penzance, and The Mikado (plus Major-General's Song)

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I know that I’m already pushing to swap Thaïs with Nixon in China, and that both W. S. Gilbert  5 and Arthur Sullivan  5 are listed on here as individuals, but… seriously why don’t we have any Savoy operas on here? Not only are they still popular to this day, they are almost universally held to be responsible for the development of musical theatre. Obviously picking the big three of the Savoy operas: H.M.S. Pinafore (the first one to be internationally famous), The Mikado (the most famous of them all), and The Pirates of Penzance (where probably the most famous patter song ever originated). (As this topic title suggests, I also think “Major-General’s Song” is vital on its own.)

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:21, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support all four. Pretty glaring omissions. --Makkool (talk) 06:38, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:29, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
4. S PoP. Not sure if these should all be lumped together and swept in.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Celebrity sex tape

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Pretty minor form of ponography, the only famous cases I can remember is Kim Kardashian and Rob Lowe, other than that not a prominent concept in pop culture; further these cases normally dissipate very quickly. The Blue Rider 20:22, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 20:22, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support --Thi (talk) 10:19, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:53, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Opppose

Discuss

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Add Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika

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The basis for several different national anthems in Southern Africa.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 23:26, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:38, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support, Africa needs more representation --Makkool (talk) 07:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:24, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Incorporated into three different national anthems. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:56, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 14:11, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Old Folks at Home for Danny Boy

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Old Folks at Home only seems to be known as the state anthem of Florida, and U.S. state anthems are a thing that most people don't even know exist, and its own right it doesn't seem at all well-known outside of the US. Danny Boy is arguably one of the most well-known folk songs in the world, and has much higher page views.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 23:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support. I think “Old Folks at Home” is no longer the state anthem for Florida. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
3. makes sense Aurangzebra (talk) 00:15, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:46, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add The Lion Sleeps Tonight

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I just realized that we do not have any musical works from Africa. Now, Isotn is trying to amend that with a song much more vital than mine, but it doesn’t hurt to have more than one. The original name “Mbube” would later be used to describe a genre that would eventually involve into isicathamiya (what Ladysmith Black Mambazo  5 plays). Also well-known for a rather ugly case of overdue song royalties.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:59, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Iconic song, and there is an entire documentary about it. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:05, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support --Makkool (talk) 21:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Very important. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add jazz standard

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Per Makkool. Important part of jazz.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:54, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Yes. Jazz standards are widely adapted outside of jazz as well. Aurangzebra (talk) 03:03, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:15, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:52, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add instant noodles

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I know that we got the actual Ramen  5 dish on here, but this is probably the most consumed instant food in the world. Also, until actual ramen shops began appearing, this used to be the only ramen most Americans heard of.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:36, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:52, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Big in East and Southeast Asia. The Blue Rider 20:18, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Big in my cupboard as well. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:32, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Piling on, a major development in food technology. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 14:07, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Chick lit

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A controversial grouping that fell into disuse years ago.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:37, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:01, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Swap with Women's writing (literary category)  5 (which Women's literature redirects to). feminist🩸 (talk) 08:05, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:53, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Swap with Women's writing (literary category)  5. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:50, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Swap per above. Vileplume (talk) 14:09, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Museo Rufino Tamayo, Mexico City

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Tamayo is not V5, so I find it strange that a building dedicated to him is listed. I lean towards the idea that we have too many museums.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:37, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:01, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:41, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Cinema of Asia

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Asia isn't really a unified cultural block or region, so this article is covering a lot of geographically and culturally dispirate trends that developed parallel to each other and have little to do with each other. We don't even list the much more culturally unified Cinema of Europe for comparison.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 19:32, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. J947 ‡ ^edits 09:25, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Makkool (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
5. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:02, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:28, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Museum removals

Remove Musée de l'Amérique francophone

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Less than 100 pageviews in the last 30 days, doesn't really seem important outside of Quebec/Canada.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 19:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom Makkool (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Hmm Canada's oldest museum. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Museo de la Nación

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Less than 200 pageviews in the last 30 days, a stub on a place that is apparently "no longer being used as a museum".

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 19:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom Makkool (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Technik Museum Sinsheim

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Seems to be a relatively niche local attraction rather than an insitution of global importance.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 19:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom Makkool (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Walker Art Gallery

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Smaller than other listed art galleries in the UK (which is already overrepresnted in this subsection), such as Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery  5, Tate Modern  4 and Victoria and Albert Museum  5. I don't think we need one where the biggest claim to vitality is being one of the largest galleries in a single country that happens to be located outside the capital.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 19:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom Makkool (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Bi-metallic coin and Challenge coin

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Coins have a vast history, but only a small fraction of the world's currency exists as physical money, and coins are a smidgen of that. We have 11 coin-related articles and a few border on numismatic trivia.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:02, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:02, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support both --Makkool (talk) 20:39, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. We have more important things in society being nominated. starship.paint (RUN) 09:15, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Labyrinth  5

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This is a surprising oversight. Labyrinth is an important theme in mythology. Maze  4 is already listed, but it's a more practical concept.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:09, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Big in popular culture and greek mythology. The Blue Rider 21:11, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:08, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:39, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Screenplay  5

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An important part of filmmaking. Place under Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Arts#Filmmaking.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:44, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:56, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
3. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:19, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:38, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:49, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Absurdism

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Weird how we have Nihilism  4 and Existentialism  5 but not absurdism. Absurdism is a philosophical stance questioning the meaning of existence. Authors like Albert Camus  4 and Søren Kierkegaard  4 have explored its themes.

In theater, playwrights like Samuel Beckett  4 defy conventions, reflecting the absurdity of existence. Artists like Salvador Dalí  4 and René Magritte  4 depict life's irrationality visually, influenced by absurdism. Absurdism has significantly influenced society by offering a critique of societal norms and institutions, encouraging critical thinking, promoting Individualism  5, inspiring creativity across various artistic mediums, and addressing existential concerns. The Blue Rider 10:52, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 10:52, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:33, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:11, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 05:35, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Child murder

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Most child-murders are Infanticide  5s, not sure we need an article for pre-adolescent to adolescent murders. 3 interwikis. The Blue Rider 03:43, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:43, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:46, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Agree. Redundant to infanticide. Gizza (talk) 05:06, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Remembrance Day  5

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More interwikis and higher page views than either Armistice Day  5 or Singles' Day  5, the two other holidays on 11 November which we list.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 07:00, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Large and influencial enough to be V5. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:30, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Would suggest swapping out Armistice Day  5 if this is added. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:02, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:21, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• Veterans Day, Armistice Day  5, and Remembrance Day  5 all celebrate the same thing essentially. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:18, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add education concepts

Suggested in the semi-obsolete discussion above about quota for education. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

As a side note, I think we should remove many US universities we currently list. Many of the US universities we list are known more for athletics than academics, but in that case we should compare their significance to sports teams ... and we only list 56 sports teams worldwide compared to 92 universities just from America. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:21, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Do propose the removals. I expect to support most. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Also agree. Universities are very overrepresented at VA IMO. J947 ‡ ^edits 04:12, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Add Grading in education  5

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Does that need an explanation? Note that Grade/grading in education context redirect here. 34 interwikis, 360 daily page views. Perhaps this could be V4? Exam  4 is. So are Essay  4 and Quiz  4. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support --Makkool (talk) 19:30, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
5. This proposal gets an A+. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:36, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Course credit  5

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A bit more advancec concept as it is more related to higher ed. Still worth considering for V5. 14 interwikis, 135 dailies. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:08, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not really that vital an educational measure, IMO.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:18, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Multiple choice  5

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Common type of test. Also relevant to research. 28 interwikis, 422 dailies. Oral exam  5 is V5. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:09, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not so much. true or false doesn't even have an article.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:51, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

   @TonyTheTiger I'd support adding it except it is just a redirect to a math/logic concept (that perhaps should be vital: Truth value). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:22, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Educational assessment  5

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This basic concept is missing, probably should be V4. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:10, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Evaluation  5

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Another basic concepts that should be V5 at least. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:10, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Undergraduate education  5

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An important subdimension of education. 20 iwikis, 688 dailies. Note that Secondary education  4, Postgraduate education  5, Tertiary education  5, and Early childhood education  4 are already vital, with some rather arbitrary confusion with regards to V4 vs V5 IMHO. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support. Undergraduate degree  5 is already listed, could this be a swap?
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:57, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Primary education  4

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Same rationale as above. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Primary education is already listed on V4. --Makkool (talk) 19:30, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add Secondary school  5

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high school redirects here. Probably should be V4. High school in the United States might be too sysbias to be V5, I am just noting it exists as a topic. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:55, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Middle school  5

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Anoter basic concept. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Primary school  5

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And yes, even this is not vital yet. Probably should be V4. Elementary school and grade school redirect there. Note: Preschool  5 is V5. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support --Makkool (talk) 19:30, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Lyceum

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Common type of school in many countries. 38 iwikis, 200+ dailies. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Gymnasium (school)  5

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Common type of school in many countries. 57 iwikis, 440 dailies. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:18, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Test anxiety

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Perhaps this could fit under psychology. Common enough phenomena that affects most people in their school days... 10 interwikis, just 50+ dailies? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Hmm. Something along the lines of "pressure to do well in school tests inducing mental health issues" should be included in the list. I'm not sure which one it is. Maybe Tiger parenting? feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add Homework  5

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To end, another "doh!" facepalm, folks. Should likely be V4 again. 41 interwikis, almost 500 dailies. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. absolutely Aurangzebra (talk) 06:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:58, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Almost certainly VA4. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:38, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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(not OP) Add Medical school  5

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Article definitely needs cleanup but an important concept nonetheless. We already have Law school  5 which has less interwikis and daily pageviews. 26 interwikis, 320 daily pageviews. Aurangzebra (talk) 19:20, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Aurangzebra (talk) 19:20, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🚰 (talk) 01:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hmmm, fine, but let's consider how many other fields may merit this? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:11, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

   I think we can probably make a case for Grammar school, Summer school, and International school. Dance studio is borderline; Film school is likely below VA5 significance. Music school  5 is already listed. Overall, not that many other fields of education for me to be worried about. feminist🚰 (talk) 06:35, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:42, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Cram school

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Very big in some places (ex. East Asia). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Weak oppose. As someone in East Asia who has attended cram school courses during secondary school, I don't think this is a particularly global concept. It has also been on a declining trend over the past few years due to demographic trends (East Asian countries having a low fertility rate) and parents realizing that they aren't as effective as, say, private tuition. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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(not OP) Add Student exchange program  5

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A common practice in higher education.

Support

1. Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:41, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. OP supports :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:53, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:08, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Support per above. Gizza (talk) 01:42, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:38, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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(not OP) Add Tutoring  5

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A broader but similar concept than Cram school nominated above.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:27, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Should be here too. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. An industry in some areas. starship.paint (RUN) 12:51, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:56, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:39, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Some philosophy topics

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Add Criticism  5

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:32, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 08:39, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
4. How did we miss this? starship.paint (RUN) 15:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
5. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Nice batch. Some are V4 too. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:37, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Idea  5

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:07, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Good idea. starship.paint (RUN) 12:50, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
5. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:37, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Preference  5 and Choice  5

Support

1. Support both, as nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:26, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Both. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:56, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• @Feminist: - you have nominated many many things, could you perhaps help out your closers and state exactly where these topics should be added to? By nominating these topics you probably have some idea, while some closers really may not know. starship.paint (RUN) 15:06, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
  • To be honest, I'm not sure either. This could fit under either Philosophy or Psychology. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:08, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
  • Anyway, I'm adding some... feminist🩸 (talk) 15:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
    • In my opinion it should be the nominator's job to know, or at least, to propose some ideas on where it could be listed, specifically which subsections. I'm pretty lazy. starship.paint (RUN) 15:15, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
      • I've now added where the topics should be added to for most of my nominations. If anyone wants some more ideas, please let me know. Thanks. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:23, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Add Quality (philosophy)  5

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:28, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:38, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Evidence  5

The parent topic to Evidence (law)  4 and Scientific evidence  5, and this concept is also present in other disciplines.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:28, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:56, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Proposition  5

Place under Philosophy

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:56, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Truth value  5

The intersection between Proposition  5 (nominated above) and Truth  3.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:37, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:56, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Premise  5

A Proposition  5 (nominated above) used in an Argument  4.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:45, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Basic to make any kind of arguments and discourses. The Blue Rider 23:14, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:56, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Logical consequence  5

More commonly known as a "conclusion".

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:46, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:56, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Inquiry  5

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:51, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:56, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Harm  5

Feels like an important concept, despite some overlap with Evil  5.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:51, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:48, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 09:56, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Lorem ipsum  5

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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

Support

1. 58 interwikis, ~3,800 daily views, and ubiquitous in Graphic design  4 and Publishing  3. feminist🚰 (talk) 07:20, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support --Thi (talk) 10:00, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:20, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. How is this vital?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:44, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Sourdough  5

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A common type of Bread  3.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:59, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:42, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:08, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:57, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Meta Platforms

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One of the largest public companies in the world, regardless of industry or geography. Its products are used by billions of people daily. Surprising omission IMO.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 13:01, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. We list Google's parent company, but not Facebook's. Interstellarity (talk) 12:40, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Per Interstellarity Makkool (talk) 10:44, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Per discussion below. The company is not important separate from the social media apps they made. Other companies are. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:12, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per my reasoning below. Aurangzebra (talk) 03:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

We already have Facebook  4, Instagram  5 and WhatsApp  5, which they own. Does that make them necessary or redundant?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:57, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Agree with TonyTheTiger here. Meta at this point is know for Facebook/Instagram/Whatsapp and hasn't really done anything VA5 worthy (while being under the name Meta) in its own right just yet. I say we need to give this one a few years. Aurangzebra (talk) 17:45, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

It's also consistently one of the world's most valuable and influential companies, so if we are judging companies based on their influence on the world, it should be included. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 01:39, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Fair points and I think I'm more on the fence than I was before but I think I still lean oppose. The reason why is because when other tech companies are listed along with their products (Google  4 and Google Search  5/Google Maps  5 or Amazon (company)  4 and Amazon Web Services  5), it is because the company achieved something notable independent of their most famous products e.g. Google with its ability to roll out groundbreaking tech at scale that many thought was commercially unviable or Amazon and their ability to monopolize almost any industry they enter. Meta is the story of Facebook  4 and Mark Zuckerberg  5. A quick test you can do is read the company's wiki article and their VA product's wiki article. Does the stuff mentioned in the company article not mentioned in the product article make the company worthy of inclusion? Google/Amazon pass this imo, Meta doesn't. Aurangzebra (talk) 02:32, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

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Add The Estée Lauder Companies

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Estée Lauder (businesswoman)  4 is at level 4. The Estée Lauder Companies, the company she cofounded, is the second largest cosmetics company in the world after L'Oréal  5.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 14:17, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
2. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:10, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Second largest may not be enough for V5. I read The Economist, I've heard of L'Oreal, but not of this one. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:51, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Piotrus. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 09:01, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Helter Skelter (book)

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This is the best-selling true crime book of all time with over seven million copies sold, and it was made into a movie twice.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:31, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak support. I've noticed that the criteria for adding books to this list is that it either must be considered a 'classic', must have been a groundbreaking piece of work in its field, or must have been a globally known bestseller (at the level of the The Da Vinci Code  5 which sold over 80 million copies and was translated into 44 languages). True crime, in its current form, hasn't taken off outside the United States (with the exception of Australia) like it has within the states. This is evidenced by the fact that this book only has 5 interwikis. Nor was it particularly groundbreaking within the genre; that honor would go to In Cold Blood  5. I lean towards adding because true crime probably deserves a second slot and this is probably the best candidate but I can see this going either way since the global legacy was minimal. Aurangzebra (talk) 23:55, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. First we should vote on adding True crime  5 genre to vital list. And unless it would be at V4, it is not an easy "sell" for me. Effectively this is a best selling book for a niche genre. Are we going to list as vital a bestselling book for each vital genre? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:48, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

   I could see true crime going to VA4, and there seems to be a consensus to at least put it at VA5. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:09, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

2. Only 5 interwikis indicates low cultural significance. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 13:48, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Eye contact  5

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Ditto

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:29, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
3. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:30, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 14:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:40, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Villain  5

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Inspired by the Mad scientist nomination above. A villain is a very common stock character in almost every story.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:17, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:49, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:44, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. An antagonist is not necessarily a villain. Also, Hero  5 is vital. starship.paint (RUN) 01:14, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:49, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:49, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
7. User:Laukku, what a difference a year makes.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:21, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Already attempted here.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:39, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add Consumption (economics)  5

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A major concept within economics, and the counterpart to Investment  4.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 07:55, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 09:09, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Basic for economics. starship.paint (RUN) 12:48, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Basic. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:59, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Major oversight. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:48, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:36, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

My Old Kentucky Home for Mo Li Hua

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Even lower pageviews than Old Folks at Home, and in any case the selection for folk songs is definitely US-centric as currently stands.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 23:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support. I probably would have been neutral or even oppose the removal of “My Old Kentucky Home” had you not revealed that it has less pageviews than “Old Folk At Home”. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:44, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. This change helps with systemic bias. starship.paint (RUN) 01:49, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 07:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• I think that I should point out that we have two subsections in the specific musical works section: traditional and folk. Although I’m the one who move the Stephen Foster’s songs from traditional to folk (in hindsight, they probably should have been put under pop, but the guy even predates Tin Pan Alley), I think the folk subsection is more for what is called contemporary folk music. If we end up swapping these songs out, both Danny Boy and Mo Li Hua are probably going to be placed under traditional, which is where the actual folk somgs are located. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:44, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.