Talk:Myanmar civil war (2021–present)/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

AH1 and inclusion of the PNA on the map

Multiple sources I've found all insinuate that the Asia Highway 1 (or the Myawaddy-Karkareik Highway, as it is called in the article) is under control of the Tatmadaw, not Karen resistance. Areas around the highway have been captured, and the highway is under almost complete fire control by rebels, but it has not been captured.

Also, should the Pa-O National Army be included on the map? They and their political wing, the Pa-O National Organisation, do de jure control the Pa-O Self-Administered Zone. They are allied with the junta, and junta forces operate within the Pa'O SAZ, but I feel they should be included on the map considering they do control those areas. Also, where's the evidence that Karenni forces, PDF's, and the SSPP operate with the Pa'O SAZ? The map shows areas of the Pa'O SAZ under control of these groups. Also, the Pa-O National Liberation Army controls areas in the Pa'O SAZ (See section: "Inclusion of Zomi Revolutionary Army and outdated map." for more details.) IdioticAnarchist (talk) 01:53, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Agreed on including PNA- I think Shan south generally is an area that Thomas van Linge (the base source of the map) has had some egregious omissions and errors already.

Re: AH1-Karen, I think the map is showing this from the result of the Battle of Kawkareik and reinforced later in late 2023; commerce as far I'm aware anecdotally and professionally (outside of wiki and RS) relies on paying tariffs to the KNU to get from Myawaddy to Kawkareik. I'd appreciate some sources that the highway is completely under the control, Remember that the map does not really show captures of territory- since that's not the nature of the war; so fire control and disruptions a la Chin would still show KNU territory taking parts of the road. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 03:11, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Zomi Revolutionary Army

Several sources I've found state that the Zomi Revolutionary Army (ZRA) declared support for resistance against the junta sometime in April 2021:

- https://myanmar-now.org/en/news/india-based-zomi-armed-group-raids-chin-resistance-camps-in-northwestern-myanmar/

- https://myanmar-now.org/en/news/zomi-revolutionary-army-attacks-anti-regime-group-in-tedim/

But also, several sources I've found state that the ZRA has met with junta officials, the junta is supplying the ZRA with weapons in return for them attacking Chin resistance.

- https://myanmar-now.org/en/news/india-needs-to-start-taking-the-chin-resistance-more-seriously/

- https://myanmar-now.org/en/news/zra-attacked-in-tedim-after-alleged-meeting-with-junta-officials/

So, I think that early in the civil war, the ZRA was on the side of the resistance, but began supporting the junta sometime in September or December 2021 onwards. Should this be included in the article? IdioticAnarchist (talk) 00:19, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Your sources, including the first two, suggest they attacked anti-junta groups not that they initially were against the junta. Without WP:OR, we can't prioritize declarations over actions, especially without any sources confirming a switch before September 2021. I quite like calling them "Unallied" or "non-alligned".

Regarding the infobox, the the purpose of the infobox is for summarization, and new information should be in the article. you covered ZRA well with your changes and PLAM is discussed in the article. However, adding numerous less relevant groups may confuse the reader. For example, we don't list all distinct PDF factions (K-PDF, Kachin-PDF, MPDF, etc.) at least in this article. Deciding relevance may be subjective, so I've only removed the Nagaland group as they don't show up in the article. Let me know if you think we should remove any others for conciseness. Feel free to re-add Nagaland if you think they are important for the summary after adding whatever fighting they did to the article body text. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 00:57, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

After looking through ACLED date (https://acleddata.com/dashboard/#/dashboard) in Chin State, Mizoram, and Manipur shows that the ZRA has been launching attacks on anti-junta groups from as early as 22nd May, 2021.

"The Zomi Revolutionary Army attacked a group of young people who gathered to form the People's Defense Force. Both sides reportedly exchanged fire. The youth withdrew from the scene. Casualties unknown"

And the ZRA has regularly launched attacks on anti-junta forces ever since, even working with the junta to capture some CDF outposts. From what I can find the ZRA has never launched attacks on junta forces.

With Nagaland, I do agree with their omission from the infobox, as the only recent information concerning their activities in Myanmar have to do with infighting and (strangely) PLA-M infighting in Naga SAZ.

"Fighting broke out between the National Socialist Council of Nagaland - Khaplang and National Socialist Council of Nagaland - Ang Mai. Three members of NSCN-Ang Mai, including a captain, died in the fighting." 7 September 2023. Kai San Lone village of Lahe township (Naga Self-Administered Zone, Sagaing region)

Also, I feel like the ACLED source could be immensely useful in mapping, as it shows the location of all news it gets. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 16:21, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong but the ACLED doesn't give me any more than just the country-level nvm found it- definitely can be useful EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 00:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Asia Foundation Information

This amazing source by Asia Foundation (posted in 2016) shows Border Guard Forces and militias https://asiafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Militias-in-Myanmar.pdf IdioticAnarchist (talk) 19:15, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

SSPP or SSA-N

Although we've normally used the armed wings normally, I want to propose an exception for SSPP and RCSS since most sources refer to them as such rather than SSA-N and SSA-S given the confusing nature of both groups (traditionally adversaries of each other) using the term "Shan State Army". Thoughts? EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 22:43, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

I'd say that using SSPP/RCSS might be a good idea considering most sources (that I've found, at least) use those or SSPP/SSA and RCSS/SSA. What do the groups themselves call each other? IdioticAnarchist (talk) 02:28, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

This source https://www.irrawaddy.com/opinion/guest-column/why-shan-states-formidable-armies-have-shunned-the-fight-against-myanmars-junta.htmlstates that neither armies use to term "Shan State Army - North/South" to describe themselves, and either just use "Shan State Army" or SSPP/RCSS. I'd say it would be helpful to change their names to SSPP/RCSS. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 15:16, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

KNLA and PDF control over the Ye-Thanbyuzayat highway in Mon, and PNLA presence in Maukmai and Kyethi Townships (Also, does anyone know how to update/make maps?)

According to this article itself, in "2023 guerrilla attacks", alongside this source https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/four-military-council-soldiers-arrested-during-knla-pdf-inspection-vehicles-ye-thanbyuzayat state that by late June 2023 KNLA and PDF soldiers took control over the portion of the National Highway 8 between Ye and Thanbyuzayat in Mon State. I have not found any sources debunking this claim, nor have I found sources saying that the highway was recaptured. This area of control is not shown on the map. On the topic of the map, does anyone know how to update it? I'm specifically on mobile, so I don't know if that effects whether I can or cannot make maps on Wikipedia. How does one make a Wikipedia map? (Also, outside of this the map is a month out of date).

Another thing, according to this source https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/shan-and-pa-o-armed-groups-clash-langkhur-district (and the article for the PNLA) the Pa-O National Liberation Army has at least a small presence in Maukmai and Kyethi Townships, and has clashed with RCSS/SSA forces in Wan Khieng and Hti Phet Nan, the former being in Kyethi Township.IdioticAnarchist (talk) 02:44, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

I can update the map but I prefer to verify all the sources and check on all the regions- so most of the time I need a free weekend day irl. I was planning on 2 weeks ago but things came up. Your list last time was helpful btw.

The actual editing usually requires using some vector software for this civil war map- I use Inkscape. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 03:03, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I'll see if I can learn how to use a vector software. To be honest, it's quite a "pet peeve" of mine when maps are incorrect or not up-to-date, and sorry if I'm being annoying when I constantly ask if people can update it. Also, I'm happy to hear that my list was helpful! I don't really have anything better to do, so I've been planning on perhaps making another one soon.

One more thing that I'd consider pretty important: the area of control for the Ta'ang National Liberation Army is wrong. Many sources state that the TNLA captured the entirety of Namhsan and Mantong Townships (the townships which make up the Palaung Self-Administered Zone). Overlaying maps of the townships in Shan State to the war map shows that on the war map this control is not shown. The map shows that control over the townships is split between the TNLA and the KIA, which (to my knowledge) is false. Of course, it's something small that probably nobody would notice, but I'd consider it important. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 03:32, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

There have definitely been issues between the TNLA and KIA stemming from KIA control of areas TNLA considers theirs and TNLA control of areas the KIA considers theirs post 1027. Sources are very quick and loose about what the whole township means, since I've also seen in editing this a source that first said the township was captured, only to later report the last outpost of the township being captured a week later. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 10:38, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Hopefully, anyone could create a better Infobox LNDP flag.

File:Infobox LNDP flag(1).jpg This is the current Infobox LNDP flag, created by me. This work is poor(It's even in JPG format). I hope someone can create a better Infobox LNDP flag than me. SKBNK (talk) 01:56, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Consolidation

I'm thinking one way to get the length of the article down would be to take all the mentions of junta war crimes and transfer them into the war crimes during the Myanmar civil war (2021–present) child article, leaving summaries in this article in the "Humanitarian impact and war crimes" section as well as the main timeline part where necessary for particularly infamous or deadly ones. For an example of how this would look in practice, see the article Russian invasion of Ukraine. Thoughts? HappyWith (talk) 15:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Should specific Border Guard Forces be included on the Infobox?

Several BGF's have thousands of soldiers (Examples: DKBA: 3,900-6,000 soldiers; KDA: 1,500-2,600 soldiers.), which is already larger than several of the resistance groups already on the infobox. While the BGF's have admittedly not been a big force in the current phase of the civil war, they are still active and have played a large part in past phases of the war. I made a list of BGF's on the BGF's article, if that helps any. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 06:17, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Well, some PDFs have thousands of soldiers too but we don't list them. I think this is fine to summarize EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 17:00, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Amazing source for rural maps, and questions about "Special regions"

For 1. I found an amazing source for stuff like Towns, Village Tracts, and Constituencies. https://geonode.themimu.info/layers/?limit=100&offset=0

For 2. Many articles about groups in Myanmar (specifically "Ceasefires in Myanmar") mention "Special Regions" in states like Shan, Kachin, and Karenni. I can find very little information about many of these (The most I can find is about Shan SR-1 (Kokang), Shan SR-2 (Wa), and Shan SR-4 (Mongla).) Could someone possibly make a map or list of these Special Regions? Possibly an article about these Special Regions? From my little research, there have been around a dozen or so. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 22:44, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

The Special Regions are historical designations and some sources and countries (particularly China) still use those to refer to the EAO-controlled areas. For example, SR-1 historically preceded the Kokang SAZ, but China used it around 1027 to refer to the MNDAA as opposed to the junta-appointed Kokang SAZ. There is no geographic documentation or consistency to how SRs are actually applied post 2008. SR-2 is Wa State North (and sometimes south too), SR-4 is the areas controlled by the NDAA wherever they area, etc. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 01:13, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Spillover section

Would it be useful to create a separate "spillover" section for the repeated cross-border attacks into Bangladesh and other countries? I think it might be more useful than having each incident spread out throughout the chronology (and also partially duplicated in the Foreign involvement#Bangladesh section), but I'm not sure. Very open to feedback on this one. HappyWith (talk) 09:28, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

I agree the duplication is unnecessary. However, some spillovers, like brief incidents with significance but minimal coverage might be better in context. For instance, the bomb landing in China during Laiza as part of that battle or the 2022 jet incursion into Thailand as part of criticism on Thailand's noninterference. The Bangladesh and Indian spillovers in 2023/4 might merit their own section, but I'm unsure if they should be standalone or subsections within the relevant chronology part. The only thing that would make clear sense is the two separate rounds of Bangladesh spillover from 2022 and 2024 could be better together. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 13:28, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Update: An editor has created a separate article for this topic at Spillover of the Myanmar civil war (2021–present). HappyWith (talk) 10:02, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Lack of MNLA control around Kawt Bein

The recent capture of the Kawt Bein Police Station by New Mon State Party (Anti-Dictatorship) forces an allies kinda shows that the MNLA control of the Kawt Bein area on the map is wrong. While its technically not wrong now (as the MNLA and NMSP-AD is shown as the same colour on the map), I feel like a distinction is needed. Possibly the NMSP-AD could be shown in a darker shade of pink? IdioticAnarchist (talk) 15:21, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

ALA Involvement

Is there any source or date for the shooting of a Rohingya man by members of the Arakan Liberation Party/Army in Sittwe? I know that The Irrawaddy talks about it, but they give no sources or dates for the event (only saying "a while ago"). The closest thing I can find is the killing of a Rohingya girl by the ALA (and ALA denial of the event) on the ACLED Dashboard for 12 March. Saying "On an unspecified date" just sounds wrong. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 15:00, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to take it off (thought leaving in timeline with the tag) since the event itself isn't major enough and would be something I might trim anyways. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 19:51, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

MNDAA presence southeast of Lashio (+SSPP)

According to several sources describing the recent clashes between the Myanmar National Democratic Alliance Army and the junta state that fighting occurred "southeast of Lashio", near Kone Nyaung, Long Mun, and Ping Kaing. The only location I could find, Long Mun, is only around 18 miles (30km) east of Lashio. This means that the MNDAA has a presence east of Lashio, which is not shown on the map. The location of this fighting is shown on the map to have a NUG/PDF presence, not the MNDAA, which is wrong. https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/fighting-erupts-in-myanmars-northern-shan-state-despite-china-brokered-ceasefire.html https://myanmar-now.org/en/news/hostilities-resume-between-myanmar-military-and-mndaa/

Secondly, Mizzima reported recent clashes between the Shan State Progress Party and the MNDAA in Hseni Township, in the Namsalat and Seiau village tracts (which I cannot find a map of). Mizzima further states that the SSPP has had a presence in Hseni for a long time, and has camps within the township. I'd consider this also notable enough to add to the map. https://eng.mizzima.com/2024/03/30/8508 IdioticAnarchist (talk) 14:24, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

There is a Long Mun about 7 miles southeast of Lashio. For these small villages or Namsalat etc., you'll need to go through the MIMU Place code database. I agree with you from reading the sources more that MNDAA does control this area. But remember just because there is a clash, doesn't mean that territory is controlled or under their jurisdiction. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 20:35, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

"Operation 1027 in Rakhine State"

Is "Operation 1027 in Rakhine State" synonymous with the article Rakhine offensive (2023–present)? It seems to have a very similar scope. If so, I think we could get the article length down by just linking that article and summarizing it briefly here in an identically-named section. HappyWith (talk) 14:16, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

It is, and yeah I think we can trim it down a bit here EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 12:28, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Theatres

Sort of a continuation of a previous discussion: I think we were on the right track by creating Anyar theatre and Chin theatre, but it's pretty awkward just having those without having articles for the other theatres, especially glaring now that we have navboxes for these articles. We should try to find every source that separates the conflict into theatres and find a consensus among them if possible. If I have time, I'll leave my research here and work on this myself, but it would definitely help to have assistance from someone who watches the conflict more closely. HappyWith (talk) 14:21, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Research

Theatre organization by source

Source	Theatres	Notes
APRSA	Rakhine Kachin Shan Lower Myanmar Northwest Southeast Dry Zone	APRSA also groups these seven into three larger 'macrotheatres': "borderland resistance strongholds" (Kachin, Northwest), central Bamar-majority areas (Dry Zone, Lower Myanmar), and "non-aligned areas" (Shan, Rakhine)
Wilson Center	Dry Zone (as "Anyar") Chin Kachin Shan Karenni Karen
IISS's warscapes	Dry Zone Rakhine (also includes Paletwa Township of Chin State) Northeast Southeast Northwest Lower Myanmar

At the very least they all agree on - Dry Zone, Rakhine and Lower Myanmar (guessing Wilson center is just discounting urban guerillas and Bago as irrelevant idk why though). Chin theatre is pretty much Northwest- with a bit more broad scope if we go with Northwest. Northeast I think makes more sense than Shan especially as Southern shan State starts to develop its own new combatants as of 2024. Lastly, Karenni and Karen can be separate but they are often linked. I'd go with IISS's system since they do track it more closely vs. APRSA who seems to think Rakhine is non-alligned. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 12:33, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

The Karen National Army (Border Guard Forces)

According to some of the articles I've seen (https://karennews.org/2024/03/all-karen-border-guard-force-units-to-be-rebranded-as-the-karen-national-army/, https://myanmar-now.org/en/news/karen-bgf-to-rename-itself-karen-national-army/), they aren't fighing for the Junta anymore. Should we remove it and change the number of fighters accordingly? (~~20K less Junta personel, I think)

They also seem to already control land. However I am not very knowledgeable and would rather someone sees this and approves the changes or not.

Thanks! UnJapóLliure (talk) 17:13, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

It's unclear if the original estimate from USIP counts ex-EAO BGFs as part of the Tat since they arent really, so it'd require an updated source IMO EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 17:34, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Should we still remove them from belligerents? UnJapóLliure (talk) 20:29, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the Karen BGF are specifically in there EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 23:24, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Wait until more information comes out Lukt64 (talk) 13:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Should a new article be created for the new phase of the war?

Since October 27, 2023, the war has reached a new phase. Resistance has been more unified than any other time in the war (to my knowledge), resistance throughout the nation is regularly making gains (which has never really happened before, to my knowledge), and the war has just generally changed in favour of resistance and ethnic forces (again, never really happened before, to my knowledge). Should a new article be created to show this? Perhaps "Myanmar Civil War (2023-present)", or something else to reflect this new phase. More than 1/3rd of this article is dedicated to the past 7 months, despite the topic stretching over 3 years, and it seems a little strange (to me at least). This article can be labeled as "Myanmar Civil War (2021-2023)" or "Post-coup Conflict in Myanmar" (maybe something similar to the Somali Civil War articles (1978-1991, 1995-2006, 2006-2009, 2009–present) with there being a different article for the major phases of the war?) IdioticAnarchist (talk) 00:06, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

I looked through it again and on second thought; we need to do the WP:SPLIT the articles (e.g. 0307; Karen sieges; theatres etc.). I looked into if sources have the same sense you mentioned and found a good analysis from IISS and used that to regroup the articles. I couldn't find enough sources that talk about the civil war as being from 2023 onwards. Even if it is different in character, I wouldn't split unless sources start citing Operation 1027 a the cause of the renewed war instead of the 2021 coup.

Let me know what you think. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 00:48, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Oh no, I wasn't saying that the civil war only began in 2023, I'm saying that a new phase of the war began in 2023. Like the Somali Civil War example, civil war was still constant throughout all of those years, but they're split into different articles due to being different in character. Other examples of different phases of wars being split into different articles include: Irish Civil War and its Guerrilla phase; the Iraq War and its start, 2003-2006 phase, and its 2006-2008 phase; the Syrian civil war and its 2nd and 3rd phases; the Afghan conflict and its 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th and current phase; and several others.

All of these conflicts have one thing in common: they are split into different phases due to a big event which changes the "character" of the war. In Myanmar's case, Operation 1027 has drastically changed the war into a closely connected, resistance-leaning, major civil war compared to the small and disconnected insurgency it was before October. Of course, the 2021 coup also drastically intensified and changed the "character" of the war. These can be seen as 2 separate phases of the same war, and (as I'm suggesting) can be split into 2 different articles detailing these separate phases. Splitting the article into 2 can save room, make it less overcrowded, and make it easier and more coherent to read. Perhaps if it is split the 2 articles can be named "Post-coup Myanmar Civil War (2021-2023)" and "Post-Operation 1027 Myanmar Civil War (2023-present)" or something like that. (sorry if I included more examples than needed, or if they're bad examples). IdioticAnarchist (talk) 02:36, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Ah yeah, I understand a bit more. But I think my original point still stands. Pretty much all sources still point to the coup when discussing the war in general rather than 1027. I think this may be WP:TOOSOON at least until more sources come out. To me at least it makes more sense to have detailed articles split about the various major offensives/campaigns post-1027 individually (e.g. Battle of Papun, Battle of Myawaddy, 0307, etc.). I don't think the increase in activity means they are more connected. The IISS source I added disagrees with you and discusses how the rebels are not coordinated. Yes, 1027 allowed Papun or Lweje to happen (for example), but mostly in terms of morale/momentum? I think we need more sources before we split chronologically. The same was we trimmed the 2021 section down significant by splitting by region, I think can keep the article manageable until we see more analysis on phases of the war.

The increase coverage is partly because of increased coverage in sources and editors being more interested- there's a large backlog of pre-1027 battles without articles in the template for example.

Besides, I think the changing factor is Laukkai not 1027- since that is still ongoing. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 03:44, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Myawaddy confusion

Explaining edit on Myawaddy- From the sources cited plus the fact that there is no junta base on the border bridge itself; 275 withdrew after losing their post; there are two friendship bridges. First source talks about two surrenders, one in Thinganyinaung outside the city and another of the garrison, who go into Mae Sot. Another source in the Timeline discusses the junta chartering a flight to evacuate them out of Mae Sot. The second The final push irrawaddy article talks about how the KNLA/PDF were in the bridge on the 9th before attacking the remaining 275 garrison; which guards the western entrance to the city. The garrison surrendering and the positioning sounds like KNLA/PDF came from the north. Last source just added today talks about KNLA fighters not being in the streets; but in the context of junta airstrikes. The bridges are part of the town. As more comes out we will see, but I've also added this understanding of the timeline to Siege of Myawaddy. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 14:45, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Role Of Northeast-Indian and Chittangong(Bangladesh) Based Groups

Hey, I was working on documenting and finding information about the connection of Indian Based Groups with those in Myanmar (basically those groups operating in the "Wesean" Region). I had discussed this with @EmeraldRangein the Insurgency in Northeast India page. Most of teh groups from the Indian side, and that from chittagong, are only connected with Kachin Independent Army and Chin National Army- I am not sure if they have relations with other groups in Myanmar. Have to find more sources for that. I suspect there is since, the native population of Chittagong is mostly arkanised, and the name chittagong also comes from Arakan.

https://www.burmalibrary.org/reg.burma/archives/199906/msg00528.html https://caravanmagazine.in/vantage/common-platform-insurgent-groups-northeast-unlfw-worry-government https://www.usiofindia.org/publication-journal/the-naga-insurgency-part-ii.html https://www.telegraphindia.com/north-east/myanmar-jitters-for-nscn-k/cid/402992 https://www.csis.org/analysis/news-front-observations-myanmars-revolutionary-forces https://www.jstor.org/stable/45340787 https://www.efsas.org/commentaries/coordinated-india-myanmar-counter-insurgency-operations-hold-valuable-lessons-for-pakistan/ https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/why-manipur-crisis-may-rank-among-one-of-the-most-misinterpreted-tragedies-in-india-13195602.html https://www.thedailystar.net/news/bangladesh/news/knf-gets-arms-support-other-side-border-3583666 http://www.zogam.org/formation-chin-leaders-freedom https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/zomi-bgf-defends-burma-army-tedim-township

There was also a report recently, on CNA getting involved with an altercation with the Zomi Revolutionary Front. Apparently the ZRA was not pleased that the tedims were converting to the chin? Zomi nationalism Its kinda really comples with regards to the Zo. Honestly as just a collegiate student, its really hard for me to figure out the conflict between the ZRA and the CNA? Aren't they the same ethnic group, and didn't the Zomis start the CNA? As in based on the sources I have read so far- Zomi is an endonym and the word chin is an exonym, referring to the same people.

https://khonumthung.org/english/cnf-spokesperson-we-need-to-be-careful-when-the-regime-tries-to-turn-brother-against-brother/

Additionally, I am planning to write an article on Wesea. Feel that this would be quite important as a separate article and would help in understanding the roles of insurgent groups spread out across 3 countries. So I wanted help for the same? Anyone willing?

Regarding KIA: https://www.borderlens.com/reports/kachin-independence-army-seizes-10-military-bases-india-deports-burma-refugees/

I had also read in one article, about the Wesean National Army, operating on the indian side, had granted an outpost to the kNA in the eastern corners of Anjaw district, Arunachal Pradesh- this was in the local news. Trying to find that source again.

Some more articles on the Role of Indian Based Insurgents: https://sputniknews.in/20231230/myanmar-soldiers-seek-refuge-in-india-after-rebel-force-capture-base-reports-6030649.html https://www.thedailystar.net/news/bangladesh/news/knf-gets-arms-support-other-side-border-3583666

Also in the demands of greater Zalengam, Kachin is sometimes often involved with the Zo people calling the people of Kachin, their blood brothers. This was an interesting documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWnk68aMFTs

KIA is also currently training the Pro Independence forces in Northeast India: https://www.observerbd.com/news.php?id=417067 Formerly, it was KIA that had trained the Naga and Assam Groups, alongside the Chins who trained the National Democratic Front of Boroland, National Liberation Front of Tripura

https://webarchive.archive.unhcr.org/20240414025030/https://www.refworld.org/docid/469f389ac.html

There used to be a greater chikkim demand, but I cannot find the article. If someone does do share it. https://www.facebook.com/Kukiland.India/posts/chikim-map-chin-kuki-kachin-mizoone-blood-one-nation1-green-land-of-the-kukis-in/722741965240932/ https://www.facebook.com/thesingphos/posts/kachins-and-kukis-are-blood-relativesthis-is-a-message-by-ps-haokip-president-ku/605262626234538/ (Opinion pieces)

WHY IS IT SO FREAKING HARD TO GET RESEARCH PAPERS. The only stuff I am able to find are Newspaper articles. Can someone help me. https://www.usiofindia.org/publication-journal/myanmar-simmering-insurgencies-search-for-solutions.html https://thediplomat.com/2024/02/has-the-indian-flagship-kaladan-project-in-myanmar-hit-a-dead-end/

The mizo insurgents in northeast india, also used to maintain strong ties with the arakan army.

Also since these alliances, under "Federal Government of Wesea" (FGW) has a security risk for the government of India- its understandable that India is now closely dealing with the Junta- https://swarajyamag .com/world/as-myanmar-crisis-deepens-northeast-insurgent-groups-can-become-indias-trump-cards-in-the-war-ravaged-country (Wikipedia marks this source as biased, so I added a blank before .com to share it- its basically a Indian nationalist magazine) https://www.rfa.org/english/news/myanmar/india-burma-02222023180530.html https://thewire.in/diplomacy/three-years-of-coup-in-myanmar-what-explains-indias-pro-junta-positionhttps://thediplomat.com/2023/03/angshuman-choudhury-on-indias-robust-engagement-of-myanmars-junta/ https://www.dw.com/en/how-india-is-supporting-myanmars-military-with-arms/a-65733102 https://www.livemint.com/politics/mint-explainer-why-india-supports-myanmars-contested-military-regime-11700222622069.html

This is a file from MEA, Govt of India: https://www.mea.gov.in/Portal/ForeignRelation/Myanmar22Nov.pdf

=== Apologies for the rather long post=== Tasumluke (talk) 01:21, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

For ZRA-CNF, see archived discussion EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 12:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Going into the activity of Indian/Bangladeshi-based groups in Myanmar is definitely a confusing and not well documented one. I've talked a little about them in the archived discussions for this page and have done (what I would consider) a lot of research about them. From my research, Indian/Bangladeshi groups (like the National Socialist Council of Nagaland, Zomi Revolutionary Army, Kuki National Army, People's Liberation Army of Manipur, certain Rohingya groups, and many others) definitely have a presence in Myanmar and are active in Myanmar...but we don't know exactly where any of their bases are located, and their activity is usual so small that it's not really notable to any news sources. For example, the United National Liberation Front of Western South East Asia were previously based in "Taga", but there is little to 0 maps depicting where Taga is. Also, outside of groups like the ZRA, KNA, and a few others, these groups don't really actively participate in the civil war. Groups like the previously mentioned UNLFWSEA fight India, while maintaining a neutral or positive view on the junta (which they use to not get attacked by the junta/maintain bases in Myanmar), or fighting in areas they operate in is incredibly limited. I added most of the main Indian/Bangladeshi rebel groups to the list of ethnic armed organisations in Myanmar article a little while ago. Anyway, I'd be very happy to help work on an article, as I'd consider it one of the more interesting areas of the Myanmar Civil War! (Also, to clarify, doesn't "Wesean" mean "Western South East Asia"?)IdioticAnarchist (talk) 17:40, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Shwe Kokko and the new Karen National Army

Should the Karen National Army (KNA), formerly the Karen Border Guard Force, be shown on the map? Considering that, while they are de jure part of the Myanmar Army, de facto they operate independently of the junta. I know the map is getting a little crowded on colours, but it feels wrong to just omit a real entity participating in the conflict. Perhaps they can be included as blue/"KNLA and allies" (which doesn't really make sense considering they aren't really an ally of the KNLA, they're more neutral than anything)? From what I can tell, the KNA operates and controls parts of Myawaddy and Shwe Kokko. According to this article from Frontier Myanmar (https://www.frontiermyanmar.net/en/business-is-back-bgf-adapts-under-pressure/) junta forces don't even operate in Shwe Kokko. While, as I said, they are de jure still under the junta, de facto they are an entirely seperate entity.

Also, I'm pretty sure the KNLA captured most of the remaining parts of the Asia Highway 1/Kawkareik-Myawaddy Highway after the surrender of troops in Thingannyinaung on 5 April, and areas north of Myawaddy (all of which is not shown on the map). IdioticAnarchist (talk) 15:58, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

The map is not properly updated to include myawaddy- someone only flipped the colour of the city. I can get a new version up EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 18:36, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Karen National Army independence

Is the Karen National Army, formerly the Karen Border Guard Force, considered its own independent entity, separate from the Myanmar Army? Many sources aren't exactly concise on whether the KNA are still considered a border guard force. They no longer take junta salaries, retreated from bases they jointly occupied with the junta, have refused to fight, declared themselves neutral, and changed their name. Is that all enough to be considered your own independent army? Also, are they considered a separate entity from the Karen BGF, or are they just a rebranding? Leader Saw Chit Thu did say that the KNA is "completely disconnected" to the "Military Council", and calling the junta the enemy. (https://karennews.org/2024/03/all-karen-border-guard-force-units-to-be-rebranded-as-the-karen-national-army/) I'm planning on making an article for the KNA. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 02:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

I think yes. ""The Karen BGF"" is a broad statement that some sources use very loosely. This archived source in the Border Guard Forces page gives some context for the SPDC's demands in 2008. The KNA was originally the Democratic Karen Buddhist Army (DKBA) and you can read more bout Saw Chit Thu and his role in 2024 and in 2010. All the BGFs were EAOs who agreed with the previous junta to transition into the Myanmar Army. It's unclear how successful they were given that the "30 SPDC commanders" part of the original demands isn't mention in the January 2024 argument.

I think there's a reason to make it a separate article but it is functionally the same group the DKBA was just after two rounds of rebranding and changes on how they interact with the central govt. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 12:02, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Not to nitpick, but from my research, it looks as though the Karen BGF is actually made up of two groups. Battalions 1011 - 1022 are former DKBA forces, while Battalion 1023 is the "Karen Peace Force". https://www.freeburmarangers.org/2010/09/28/dkba-continue-to-forcibly-recruit-villagers-while-the-karen-peace-force-joins-the-burma-army-border-guard-force/ https://asiafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Militias-in-Myanmar.pdf https://karennews.org/2024/03/all-karen-border-guard-force-units-to-be-rebranded-as-the-karen-national-army/ https://www.frontiermyanmar.net/en/kayin-border-guard-force-celebrates-ninth-anniversary/

So, would the start of the KNA's operations be 1994 (when the DKBA was founded), 2009 (When the Karen BGF was founded), or 2024 (when the KNA split off from the junta)? IdioticAnarchist (talk) 16:07, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, when EAOs became BGFs they got broken down into Battalions. I'm not sure where to split but probably most relevant at 2024; with the BGF history being a background section? EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 17:05, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

PNA/KIA control + future map updates

Map has been updated with all the sources and items mentioned above as well as in timeline. There's a few things I didn't address namely:

It's highly unlikely that de facto control follows township borders exactly and the sources aren't able to map things too well (AFAIK only AA provides helpful google map with markings on them in their briefs). So most of the map is a semi-abstract representation of presence, intensity, control and contestation. This is compounded by the fact that the war does not operate on fronts (as perhaps evident by SSPP showing up far far south in Mongpan).

That being said:

• PNA control, especially in Pinlaung Tsp. is something I couldn't trace beyond Thomas van Linge. But I could verify there was at least PDF presence back in 2022 around the Pinlaung massacre.
• KIA control with TNLA in Namhsan is contested and it seems very light on sources discussing it- since there's not really fighting per se.
• Nagaland and other Indian border groups almost definitely have a presence here but I'm not sure if it would be helpful since it would add a lot of colours without many sources I can find to back them up.

EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 17:04, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Firstly, the map looks absolutely amazing! Great work! Secondly, with the Indian groups: perhaps they could all be shown in the same colour? On the map, several other connected resistance groups (Karen, Karenni, and Chin resistance) are shown all in the same colour, although probably dozens of different local groups, PDF's, and larger organisations are all active in those areas. From what I've researched, the ZRA, PLA-M, NSCN, UNLF, and several other smaller groups are all active in border regions of Chin/Sagaing; so perhaps they could all be shown as just "Indian Rebel Groups"? (Also, if needed, I found a good source specifically about Meitei groups https://eng.mizzima.com/2024/02/20/7315) IdioticAnarchist (talk) 01:35, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I think I'm looking reading up on a ULFA book I got recently to figure it out since it's outside my expertise. I guess it's unclear if ZRA should be separate in the depiction just based on coverage in sources. That + the apparent capture of Rathedaung might warrant a quick update later this week. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 14:22, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Also there's the issue that not all Indian militants support the junta. Groups like the United National Liberation Front of Western South East Asia (A union of several militant groups) and the Kuki National Army have fought against the junta and worked with resistance forces. While other groups like the ZRA, PLA-M, and UNLF have directly worked with and supported the junta. Possibly they could be shown in two colours; one being "Allied Indian Groups" and the other "Aligned Indian Groups"?

Also, I made a Google Doc showing a list of events related to these groups based on ACLED data (I'm trying to find sources to back them up) showing the "Group Involved", "Description of Event", "Date", and "Location". Is there any way I could put this into Wikipedia format? Or share this on Wikipedia? IdioticAnarchist (talk) 22:12, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

I mean that sounds like it might just be additions to List of ethnic armed organisations in Myanmar or a new listicle like "Combatants in the Myanmar civil war (2021-present)", but I would caution against WP:OR EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 22:56, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh no, I'm making the list to find locations for the map. And I'm avoiding original research (I'm using ACLED as a base, then finding sources based off described events.) I want to share it because I just cannot find the locations described. From what I've found, the UNLFWSEA's main base in Myanmar is in "Taga", Nugyung Township, and those groups operate in the "Hukwang Valley" and Hoyat Village. But I cant find any locations of Taga or Hoyat! And I just wanna give people who wanna update the map some possible locations to add.

• https://www.news18.com/news/india/myanmar-army-abandons-taga-headquarters-of-northeast-insurgent-groups-after-three-years-5450287.html)
• https://nenow.in/north-east-news/myanmar-army-abandons-taga-headquarters-northeast-insurgent-groups.html
• https://www.dhyeyaias.com/en/current-affairs/daily-current-affairs/taga-myanmars-region-now-free-from-indias-northeast-insurgent-groups
• https://thediplomat.com/2022/01/indian-rebel-outfits-regrouping-in-myanmar-again/
• https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/myanmar-army-launches-attack-ulfa-camp (Best map I could find)

IdioticAnarchist (talk) 01:40, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, sources that report on India tend to use non-standard romanizations, so it can be hard but:

• Taga (တကားရွာ) is recognized without a coord by the central government - likely located near Shingbwiyang
• Nugyung -> Nanyun Township but in Naga
• Hukawng Valley is searchable on Google maps and is basically Tanai Township, Kachin State - coudn't find "Hoyat" or anything similar. `EmeraldRange (talk/contribs)

EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 02:05, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

@IdioticAnarchistIs your conclusion from sources that the "Indian rebel groups" are in Tanai Township? I'm not sure I feel confident myself putting them on there. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 12:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

After my reading a bunch of stuff, my conclusion is that the location of Indian ethnic armed organisations (IEAO) is very confusing and almost never stated unless they're being forced out of those locations. Right now I don't exactly feel the most comfortable putting them on the map unless a specific location can be found. The NSCN, KNA, ULFA-I, ZRA, UNLF, KLO, and several other Indian rebels groups are certainly active in Myanmar and have headquarters in Myanmar, but the location of those bases are not known to any media outlets I can find. I'd say this should've been expected, as if the location of any IEAO bases is known that puts them at risk from both the Myanmar Tatmadaw (if they are not allied to the Tatmadaw) and certainly the government of India and cross-border attacks from the Assam Rifles. Unless a recent source gives a location of a base, I'd say that they should not be included at this current moment. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 13:31, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

PNA control in Pinlaung Township: https://www.tni.org/en/article/crisis-in-the-pa-o-region

"The older and larger movement of the PNO, headquartered in Kyauktalon, Pinlaung township" IdioticAnarchist (talk) 14:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

It looks like on the map the locations of Hakha and Falam in Chin State are mixed up and need to be switched. According to Google Maps, Hakha is located directly east of Thantlang, and Falam is further north. On the map the name of Hakha is located on the city bubble where Falam is in real life. At least according to Google Maps this is incorrect, perhaps I don't know enough to know that Google maps is incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hjks7121 (talk • contribs) 10:00, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Location of SSPP captured junta base

Are there any sources narrowing down the range of the recently captured junta base other than "between Hopong and Mongpan"? After looking on Google Earth, the area between the two towns is around 80 miles (128 km). Is there any sources narrowing down this location? IdioticAnarchist (talk) 02:20, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Honestly, Khit Thit is a crapshoot of reliability so I wouldn't be surprised if said base doesn't exist. If I find a better source I'll replaceEmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 12:53, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

ACLED source (https://acleddata.com/dashboard/#/dashboard) states that the base was actually in (or in villages surrounding) Mongpan. I don't know the veracity of this claim, as (based on the Myanmar war map) Mongpan is around 90 miles (151 km) from the nearest SSPP-controlled area. Perhaps this can be shown on the map as disconnected control. Also, less important, it's reported that the Pa-O National Organisation participated in the clashes, although the Pa-O SAZ is around 70 miles (112 km) away from Mongpan.

"On 21 February 2024, in villages near Mongpan town (Mongpan township, Langkho district, Shan-South state), a combined force of the military and PNO continued to engage in intense fighting with the SSPP and their allied forces. During the clash, the military conducted airstrikes and fired artillery rounds on the battlefield. The fighting caused closure of Mongpan bridge from 11 pm. Casualties unknown." IdioticAnarchist (talk) 16:20, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I think that "Mongpan" could be an improper translation, as this article from the Shan Herald Agency for News posted around the same time https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/sspp-shan-armed-group-may-join-forces-pnla-fight-junta-southern-shan-state says Khit Thit stated that the SSPP has been clashing with junta forces near "Mongpawn", not "Mongpan" with would make far more sense considering Mongpawn is only around 18 miles (30 km) from Hopong, its directly south of SSPP-controlled areas (on the map, at least), and Pa-O National Army forces are active in Mongpawn. I can't explain the ACLED source; but perhaps it used Khit Thit and also improperly translated? Of course, I know nothing about the Burmese language, nor any other Southeast Asian languages, so this could be the correct translation and I'm just saying false info. Also, the SHAN source states that the Pa-O National Liberation is far more active in Hopong Township than just the Sam Hpu area. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 14:56, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Further evidence that "Mongpan" could be a mistranslation: https://www.tni.org/en/article/crisis-in-the-pa-o-region

"21-29 February

Fighting escalated in Hopong township. A clash was reported on the 21st morning between a combined Sit-Tat/PNA force and PNLA/allied troops near Mongpon, causing residents of local villages to flee. The following day the Taunggyi-Hopong-Mongpon-Loilem road was closed, with the Sit-Tat positioning an artillery unit at Htam Sam Shwedagon Pagoda Hill which began shelling Meh Nel mountain and the surrounding area. On 23 February a combined Sit-Tat/PNA force were reported to have attacked a PNLA column in the vicinity. The following day, PNLA troops responded by seizing a military camp near Loi Woe Tok village, issuing a statement urging the PNO to abandon its alliance with the SAC and join the PNLO in the struggle for freedom. There were also reports that the SSPP was supporting the PNLA in its battle with the PNA, with the Sit-Tat moving more reinforcements to the area." IdioticAnarchist (talk) 14:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Three Pagoads and Good Karen map

The KNU de facto captured and de facto has control over the Three Pagodas Pass and the town of Payathonzu https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/knu-consolidates-full-control-over-three-pagodas-pass-payathonzu-area-administration-spite

Also, don't know if it's too useful, but this map of bases captured in Karen State could be used to specify certain areas of the Karen front https://myanmar-now.org/en/news/new-report-shows-junta-is-losing-its-hold-over-southeastern-myanmar/ IdioticAnarchist (talk) 16:05, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Very helpful map

I found this very useful map showing positions captured by rebels, government outposts and rebel bases. It is produced by Nathan Ruser, analytyst at Australian Strategic Policy Institute, so it can be considered reliable source. Borysk5 (talk) 16:13, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Helpful source for locations of several Shan groups

https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/why-are-ppst-members-fighting-each-other-interview

Pa-O National Liberation Army, Pa-O National Army, and Shan State Army (RCSS).

• It mentions the PNA in "Honar Township" "north of Ka Du Gyi" (Which I can't find the location of)
• Confirms the PLNA presence in Ka Du Gyi
• States that the RCSS/SSA controls "Mong Tok, Mong Htar Region, Mong Pan West Region, and Homein Sub-Township" (I found this article backing it up https://asiafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Ethnic-Armed-Actors-and-Justice-Provision-in-Myanmar_EN.pdf, which is an interesting source just by itself: "In January 2012, an agreement between the RCSS and the government established Ho Mong (Homein) “sub-township” of Langkho township and Mong Htar (Hmone Hta) “sub-township” of Mong Tang township as recognized “RCSS headquarters administrative and development areas.” The RCSS was given the power to govern civilians in these areas.")

IdioticAnarchist (talk) 17:46, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

These are some great sources- I think when May drops, I'll apply these to the map. been feeling like KNA really needs to be separate but want to see how that goes.

Anyways, Honar Township is probably a mistranscription- it sounds to me a lot like "ဟိုနား" which literally means "that one" like "that township over there". There is no central-government recognized place called Kadugyi (big Kaud), but Kadulay (small Kadu) in makwmai township and Kandu is in Pekon township - both close to Hopong Township. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 19:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Ka Du Gyi is on Google maps though? Is it like more of a de facto region than a de jure recognised region? https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ka+Du+Gyi,+Myanmar+(Burma)

The area I was having more issues finding is the "Mong Tok and Mong Htar" Regions. West Mong Pan Township is pretty obvious, and Homein subtownship I found through this (quite good) Shan Township map https://themimu.info/sites/themimu.info/files/documents/Report_Shan_State_Census_Report_MOIP_May2015.pdf

EDIT: I found the location of "Mong Htar" subtownship through the Asia foundation source I linked. "Mong Htar" is shown as "Monehta" Subtownship on the population report map. Turns out the RCSS/SSA controls more southernly territories than shown on the map. All I need help with finding is "Mong Tok".

Also, Loi Tai Leng, the headquarters of the RCSS, is shown in red on the map for some reason.

Alongside that, found several sources showing the Wa State southern area as far smaller than what is shown on the map, including the same source used by you to originally add it to the map. https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/2019-07/pw_147-the_united_wa_state_army_and_burmas_peace_process.pdf https://www.crisisgroup.org/asia/south-east-asia/myanmar/299-fire-and-ice-conflict-and-drugs-myanmars-shan-state

The article for the RCSS/SSA (alongside several sources) states that the RCSS/SSA has 4 bases along the Thai-Myanmar border (excluding Loi Tai Leng). Loi Moong Merng, Loi Hsarm Hsip, Loi Gawwan, and Loi Lam. The only map I could find is this one https://www.bnionline.net/en/shan-herald-agency-for-news/item/11963-burma-army-fomenting-another-war-between-wa-shans.html. Strangly, most of these are shown in Wa State southern area. I believe that Wa State controls less than what's shown on the war map, but I agree that they surely control several of these areas. Perhaps the bases are exclaves surrounded by the Wa?

Loi Tai Leng and Loi Moong Merng are surely controlled by the RCSS. Loi Lam might be? Loi Hsarm Hsip and Loi Gawwan are surely in Wa controlled areas.

Lastly, could someone perhaps help translate this source and/or find the location this map shows? https://mmpeacemonitor.org/311228/rcss-prepares-for-offensive-against-sspp-after-talks-with-the-military/

Two sources confirming RCSS/SSA activity in Mongton's Hmone Htar https://reliefweb.int/report/myanmar/shan-rebels-fight-govt-despite-peace-deal https://english.shannews.org/archives/24837

(Sorry that this is just a big bunch of diconnected ramblings) IdioticAnarchist (talk) 04:30, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I think I have found the official points of the RCSS/SSA ceasefire agreement (albeit "unofficially" translated via SHAN) https://mmpeacemonitor.org/images/pdf/SSA-S-Government-UNOFC.pdf https://mmpeacemonitor.org/images/pdf/SSA-S-Government-19may2012.pdf https://mmpeacemonitor.org/images/pdf/SSA-S-Government-16jan2012.pdf IdioticAnarchist (talk) 02:46, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Finally found an actual location which India-based insurgents control

After much research, I have finally found a location which India-based insurgents, specifically the National Socialist Council of Nagaland, have bases in and control. The Somra Tracts, in Layshi Township, Naga Self-Administered Zone, Sagaing Region. I don't mean to be annoying by asking to add another colour to the map (considering we already have so many) but yeah I am asking for this to be added to the map if possible. https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/why-civil-over-in-myanmar-may-see-spillover-insurgency-in-indias-north-east-13571442.html https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/indias-security-and-the-fencing-of-the-myanmar-border-13740601.html https://www.news18.com/opinion/opinion-somra-maoism-and-naga-peace-process-7600819.html

The News 18 article also states that "Yowpi" is another base for the NSCN. I can't find an exact location for it, but its either north or south of Somra. North, this page (https://www.mindat.org/feature-1284683.html) states the coordinates of Yowpi. When putting those coordinates into Google maps its a few dozen miles south of Somra. But when searching "Yowpi" in Google maps it autocorrects to Yawpami, also a few dozen miles north of Somra.

Other places I can find are Taga and Hoyat villages. Hoyat (https://thediplomat.com/2022/01/indian-rebel-outfits-regrouping-in-myanmar-again/ https://nagalandpage.com/nscn-im-c-in-cs-loyalists-request-for-disciplinary-action-against-deputy-c-in-c/) I cannot find the location of. Taga I've found some conflicting accounts. The firstpost article says, its West of the Chindwin River, but the diplomat article says it's in the Hukwang Valley (which, from I can tell, is east of the Chindwin). Then this News 18 article (https://www.news18.com/news/india/myanmar-army-abandons-taga-headquarters-of-northeast-insurgent-groups-after-three-years-5450287.html) implies that its in Hkamti Township, considering "one company of 252 battalion of Hkamti Brigade" was stationed at Taga until June 2022.

(Also several sources state that insurgent bases tend to be around 10 miles~ from the border, as to not be attacked by India. Don't know if that's notable, its just something I've seen.) IdioticAnarchist (talk) 22:09, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Update on Hoyat: I've found an approximate location for "Chen Hoyat", which I suspect is the same thing. https://www.etvbharat.com/english/bharat/ne-insurgents-in-recoup-bid-under-china-myanmars-benign-gaze/na20220106200229525

Hoyat is in:

• Konyak Naga-dominated land
• forested areas
• Chen Hoyat area and its nearby localities located in Myanmar across India’s Nagaland state

IdioticAnarchist (talk) 13:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Great working compiling all this research! Hopefully someone will be able to implement it. NewishIdeas (talk) 23:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I've done, what I would consider, a lot of research on the topic of India-based insurgent groups (which you can find in the archives of this page, also added India-based groups to list of ethnic armed organisations in Myanmar, and added much of the stuff relating to the Zomi Revolutionary Army on this article), and finally it seems like I've actually made a breakthrough/it finally paid off! I'll continue researching to try to get a better picture on the situation, considering it's not at all well-documented, and sources are usually very vague or confusing. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 00:25, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

This map appears to show Taga on the border between Hkamti and Tanai Township's in Sagaing Region and Kachin State, respectively. This is the highest quality map I can find. Finally, I've found Taga (hopefully)! https://www.firstpost.com/india/ulfa-in-disarray-after-myanmar-armys-crackdown-has-endgame-begun-for-the-separatist-outfit-6355401.html also, the map shows a settlement called "Haukyat" which is mighty close to "Hoyat" but I'm probably wrong.

When looking up "Map of Taga in Myanmar" (the file name of the map included in the Firstpost article) several villages come up by the name of "Taga Hka" in the approximate location https://geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-643179&fid=698&c=burma https://www.mindat.org/feature-1295252.html could these be the same settlement? I'm unsure if UNLFWSEA activity near Taga can be shown, considering their bases in Taga were dismantled in 2019; but in 2022 Burmese forces retreated from Taga and NSCN forces possibly began reconstructing bases in the area https://www.news18.com/news/india/myanmar-army-abandons-taga-headquarters-of-northeast-insurgent-groups-after-three-years-5450287.html IdioticAnarchist (talk) 18:09, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

A source stating that the military gave Taga back to rebels in return for them attacking PDF's (although this source is admittedly likely bias) https://nagalandpost.com/index.php/2022/06/28/myanmar-army-abandons-taga-hqs-of-ne-rebel-groups/ IdioticAnarchist (talk) 13:53, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Old, but interesting map

https://www2.irrawaddy.com/article.php?art_id=21447

• Shows activity of New Democratic Army - Kachin
• Shows activity of Kachin Defense Army
• Shows activity of Mon National Liberation Army

(Everything else is kind of useless and definitely overexaggerated) IdioticAnarchist (talk) 05:17, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Amazing, relatively up-to-date source about the situation in Southern Shan State

https://www.burmalibrary.org/sites/burmalibrary.org/files/obl/5-23-2019-SSRC-SHRF-Press-release-Eng-report.pdf

Map includes

• Southern Wa State bases
• Southern Wa State "expansion"/borders
• Burmese military bases around southern Wa State
• Shan State internally-displaced-peoples camps (source states that these IDP camps also act as RCSS/SSA bases: "...on RCSS/SSA territories where the IDPs are sheltering...When the RCSS/SSA then set up camps along the adjacent border..."')

Overall, just an amazing source (it even criticises other maps for overexaggerating territorial control!) and is pretty up-to-date (2019)

@MrBLOCKiron and @EmeraldRange (@ing you amazing folks because you folks have helped edit the map in the past), when/if you can read it, I think this is a good source for the situation down in Southern Shan State, which has been pretty hard to understand (in my opinion) and sources are often contradictory. Also backs up the claim that the Burmese Army still controls Monghta and Homein towns, which is interesting. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 04:55, 10 May 2024 (UTC)