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Talk:Myanmar civil war (2021–present)/Archive 3

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Latest comment: 3 months ago by LordOfWalruses in topic We should add a map change time lapse
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List of map edits

Latest comment: 6 months ago14 comments4 people in discussion

In anticipation for May, and Thomas Van Linge (hopefully) posting an updated Myanmar map (One of the main sources for the map on this article), I've made a list of additions and changes for the map organised by importance! (added strikethroughs on edits added to map)

Indisputable edits:

Disputable edits: (Sources may have mistakes or additions unnotable/small in scope (labeled as sis))

Very Disputable Edits: (needs more research or has articles disputing it, but good to note)

IdioticAnarchist (talk) 04:51, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Great list. Added some stuff to the map from the Indisputable points. The other stuff is mostly pretty old and needs some deeper diving and/or fresh sources to clarify or confirm. Good job once again! MrBLOCKiron (talk) 16:56, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Thank you! And thanks for the edits! If you tell me which ones need better/newer sources I can look for them. I tried to organise them by how good their sources were. Also, not to nitpick, but why was RCSS/SSA control over Mong Htar/Loi Lam included while Homein/Loi Moong Merng not? IdioticAnarchist (talk) 18:19, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
I added all the Indisputable and some other points.
Some of the other points i cant confirm however, here's the points & reasons: (feel free to object)
  • The Borysk5 found map is great for finding bases and such, however they cant be confirmed as the source is not really reliable. A lot of points are also just named Point number and i don't know what to do with that info.
  • For the Three Pagodas Pass, a recent article indicates that people draft dodging are being arrested there, presumably by junta forces. So if you can find something more recent to counter that would be appreciated. Here's the recent article.
  • About Homein, the sources are very old and i would take the safest bet here hand leave it unchanged. The Borysk5 map also still reports it as under Tatmadaw control.
  • uh the source for Loi Moong Merng is over 12 years old, i dont think its still accurate.
  • For the UNLFWSEA, i cant really add another side, i dont have the experince
The Very Disputable Edits, indeed does need some more research first. Keep up the great work! MrBLOCKiron (talk) 10:33, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Some very fair points. Thank you! Good map edits. I'll try to look through the other edits for some newer sources.
Addition: Specifically with the Three Pogodas Pass, I think the source you were meaning to link was this, considering it talks about draft-dodging and its recent. From my reading of the article, it seems as though draft-dodgers were arresting by Thai authorities, not Burmese. I could be wrong though. Also, other users editing the map have stated that the map more shows the "de facto" situation on ground. A good example was the Asian Highway 1 before Operation Aung Zeya. Junta forces did have troops stationed along the highway, but goods going through the highway had to pay the KNLA to pass, and the KNLA had fire control over basically the entire highway, so it was shown as KNLA control on the map. If that makes sense. The KNLA in practice control Payathonzu, despite junta soldiers still being stationed there. Of course, I could be wrong and the source I'm using is admittedly over half a year old, and situations in Myanmar can change rather quickly. One last thing, again, not to nitpick -beggars can't be choosers as they say- but the KNLA still controls most of the Dawna Hills. Operation Aung Zeya has only made it to the Taw Naw waterfall, around 1/3rd the way to Myawaddy. Another User, @EmeraldRange suggested that the Karen National Army (Karen Border Guard Force) be shown as a different colour, considering they are a separate entity from both the KNLA and the Tatmadaw and they are notable enough (to me at least) to be their own thing on the map. Of course, beggars can't be choosers and I don't know if you can add a new colour to the map, but it's a suggestion that I feel is notable enough to take into account. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 12:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
After finding a somewhat (2022) recent article, I concede on my research on both Homein and Monghta sub-townships. https://mizzima.com/article/shadows-shan-refugees-thailand
"It thus appeared to be a significant concession from the Burmese government in the RCSS/SSA’s Union-level ceasefire agreement in January 2012: “To allow RCSS/SSA headquarters in Homein sub-township and Mong Hta sub-township.” (Ho Mein/Mong was the former MTA HQ area, about 60 kilometres west of Mong Hta). However, this agreement was never honoured. The Burma Army never retreated from Mong Hta or Ho Mong, and RCSS/SSA was only allowed a small liaison office in Mong Hta."
I do believe, however, that the RCSS/SSA still control the rest of both townships. I don't have much evidence backing this up other than the ceasefire agreement that the Tatmadaw broke. I believe that the RCSS/SSA still control the their bases along the Thai border and the rest of Homein/Monghta sub-townships. Also, this is the only article I can find saying this, so this article may be wrong. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 18:27, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Thank you and @IdioticAnarchist for your work on this! It's great to see. I'm personally swamped IRL with work and it's great to see other editors take over the file too. If you aren't sure how to add a new colour, I can do the KNA addition later this weekend! EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 21:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
While I'm not MrBLOCKiron, and I don't know whether they know how to add a new colour, I'm gonna suppose not. It would be greatly appreciated if you could add the KNA control over Myawaddy and Shwe Kokko when you can (also a few more map updates if you can, like Bhamo being cut off from Myitkyina by KIA, Karen control over the Dawna Range, lack of SSPP/SSA control over Mong Pan or Mong Pawn, and possibly the UNLFW presence in Somra (I kinda wanna see how my research holds up)). Of course, don't feel rushed to do it considering work is more important than editing a Wikipedia map. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 19:53, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm trying to get a handle on the KNA situation myself. There seems to be new things happening and frankly stepping away from following the news for a week makes the whole Myawaddy situation confusing to wrap my head around.
One question for you as someone who dug into it much more is what to label the Indian rebel groups as "Indian rebel groups" seem a unhelpful and WP:POV especially since many are separatists. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 14:59, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
I suppose you can just state that the groups are Valley-based insurgent groups (VBIGs), as I've seen them labeled in several articles (considering most Meitei-majority groups are active in the Imphal Valley). Or Indian Ethnic Armed Organisations (IEAOs). Or just as the United National Liberation Front of Western South East Asia (UNLFW) and allies, and do the footnote solution of including the list of allies in the footnote (considering CorCom and UNLFW tend to occupy the same bases).
On the KNA situation, from what I understand, the Tatmadaw occupy the 275 LIB base west of the city and jointly occupy the city with KNA, while the KNA control Shwe Kokko and jointly occupy Myawaddy with the Tatmadaw. I forget the source, so don't quote me on it, but only around 150 Tatmadaw soldiers are in the city and LIB base, while upwards of 7,000 KNA soldiers occupy Myawaddy and Shwe Kokko. Considering the size difference, I think Myawaddy could be shown as just KNA control, considering the KNA are definitely the main force in the city. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 15:09, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
I think I'm leaning towards showing Myawaddy as joint Tat-KNA control just because they the KNA is allegedly/presumably giving junta access? But Shwekoko seems more properly KNA control. Althought I guess you can also show it as KNA being junta-alligned (for now)? EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 16:27, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
Also KK Park is under control of KNA, south of Myawaddy. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 13:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Also, small but important thing brought up by @Hjks7121, Hakha and Falam are switched up on the map. Hakha is east of Thantlang, not Falam. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 04:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
It's now fixed on the interactive map, but Hakha is still switched with Falam on the main map at the top of the page. Hjks7121 (talk) 19:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

How can I update the map?

Latest comment: 6 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I wish to update the map, in the image and in the other section when updates happen. I know for Example, multiple Chin towns have been captured and the situation is changed. How can I update it? UnJapóLliure (talk) 13:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I ain't too sure on how to update the map, but one of the editors of the map, @EmeraldRange, stated that "The actual editing usually requires using some vector software for this civil war map- I use Inkscape." IdioticAnarchist (talk) 13:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Map suggestion

Latest comment: 5 months ago5 comments3 people in discussion

I heard that Hsi Hseng, a town in Southern Shan State has been recaptured by SAC forces. They’re even preparing to rebuild that town.This news is from SAC owned channel which is kinda unreliable.

https://www.myanmaritv.com/news/coordination-meeting-matters-rehabilitation-works-hsi-hseng-discussed

The source that mentioned SAC recaptured of Hsi Hseng.

https://english.shannews.org/archives/27099

https://myanmar-now.org/en/news/myanmar-military-allies-retakes-town-captured-by-pa-o-karenni-forces/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjA0prvyLWGAxX0yjgGHTQnC9wQr4kDegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1bw-P4FvZDq3VEW7YlanJB

It’s okay, even if you don’t believe me since I am a new to here but at least Hsi Hseng should be on contesting list because recently(past months) SAC reinforced troops and tanks into Southern Shan State.

https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/myanmar-junta-reinforcements-spark-heavy-attacks.html&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjA0prvyLWGAxX0yjgGHTQnC9wQr4kDegQIXBAB&usg=AOvVaw1bVrt-jUR__gXq7mOH_U3N

https://www.frontiermyanmar.net/en/they-are-preparing-for-war-forced-recruiting-by-pa-o-militia-in-shan/

Thuta611 (talk) 13:54, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

source necessary EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 14:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
I was adding it my hand accidentally touch the “post” buttom T-T. Thuta611 (talk) 14:29, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
Looks good- no worries man! Make sure you add to the actual article as well. For the maps though, we tend to update them every month roughly. I think depending on what happens in the next week it might be worth updating for this + Tedim and some changes. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 20:00, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
These are some pretty good sources outside of the Myanmaritv and frontiermyanmar ones considering they only talk about Hsi Hseng Township, not the town itself. I do believe that Hsi Hseng should at least be shown as contested, considering the fighting is ongoing in, or at least near the town. I'm not sure whether the retreat of PNLA forces was temporary; but considering several sources still claim the town is under control of the PNLA I will treat it as such. Good suggestion! IdioticAnarchist (talk) 19:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Map edits (May)

Latest comment: 5 months ago7 comments3 people in discussion

Like April, here's a list of map edits for May (along with some nitpicks. I don't mean to be "that girl" and be like "um this tiny unnoticable area on the map is wrong" but I'm just trying to show issues that I see on the map the best I can) also sorry this is lesser quality than the last list, I'm tired.

Nitpicks: (suggestions)

  • Ann is not currently contested, as no fighting is currently occurring inside the town.
  • I question why the new map shows Tanintharyi (south of Dawei) as cut off from the rest of the region by Karen forces?
  • Maungdaw, from what I know, is not currently contested.
  • This source (https://cnimyanmar.com/index.php/english-edition/21852-battle-breaks-out-between-zra-and-cna-in-tedim) says nothing about ZRA activity in Tedim town, only ZRA activity along the "Myanmar-Mizoram trade route" and in Laithwee village.

Indisputable Edits:

Disputable Edits:

Very Disputable Edits: (needs more research or has articles disputing it, but good to note)

IdioticAnarchist (talk) 23:11, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks again! Added a lot to the map. The ones i cant add are:
Maungdaw is indeed contested, AA has entered the outskirts. https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/war-against-the-junta/arakan-army-launches-battle-for-control-of-myanmars-border-with-bangladesh.html
I cant locate the Nam Byu base but its approximately 12 miles southwest of Danai, which is currently marked as KIA control anyways
About Myawaddy, in the article it says that the BGF militia controls the city and the BGF is allied with the junta.
Cant find where Monghtar is
Once again, cant add a new faction (UNLFWSEA ) MrBLOCKiron (talk) 14:28, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
The map is looking great! Thanks for the edits!
  • Monghtar is also known as Mong Hta (as shown on the burmalibrary map)
  • With the Border Guard forces, I believe that they should be added to the map when they are notable enough. Both the KNA and NDA-K act independently of the junta, and do control territory. They act somewhat similar to the Pa'O National Army on the map, considering junta forces are still widely stationed in the Pa'O Self-Administered Zone and fight alongside the PNA, yet it is still shown as PNA control. Another editor stated that the map shows the de facto situation, not the de jure. De jure the junta controls Myawaddy, de facto there's only around 200 junta soldiers stationed in Myawaddy, while over 1,000 KNA soldiers are.
  • Not meaning to nitpick, again, but Shwe Kokko is still shown as controlled by KNLA, not KNA. Also, Mong Pan is still shown as contested when it isn't.
Anyway, yet again, thanks for the edits! I'm happy to help! IdioticAnarchist (talk) 17:47, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
I've added the new factions! Finally after I said I'd do it like over a month ago lol. I decided to add the disputable edits insofar as including Chen Hoyat since it was close to the other UNLFWESEA controlled areas anyways. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 01:50, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
It looks amazing! Don't worry about the long wait time, I get that people have lives outside of editing Wikipedia. Now we're onto 21 colours on the map lol! Anyway, like I said, it looks great, and thanks for the edits! IdioticAnarchist (talk) 02:24, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Oh hey, totally missed the Mong pan comment- updated that too + moved the SSPP presence to Mong Pawn based on the prior discussion. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 03:52, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Also, if enough changes in the next week or so for it to be notable enough to add that Kyaikdon captured https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/myanmar-military-commanders-replaced-in-rakhine-mon-and-karen-states-sources.html, Tedim and Hsi Hseng contested, and I don't think the situation with the SSPP has changed at all (i.e its old borders are needed) considering SSPP has not declared war on or fought the junta any time in the past few months, so the borders have not changed since the pre-17 March map, if that makes sense. SSPP/SSA has no territory near Mongpan or Mongpawn. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 20:14, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

The map colors for “Arakan Army” and “Indian Insurgent Groups” need to be differentiated

Latest comment: 5 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

They look so similar that they’re almost the same color; I can’t tell which parts of the map are controlled by which entity. LordOfWalruses (talk) 20:18, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Found more areas controlled by Indian EAOs

Latest comment: 5 months ago7 comments2 people in discussion

"Pounyu village and Woilan Kingphu village" in Lahe township near New Pangsha village https://morungexpress.com/general-store-at-itc-dan-a-lifeline-for-naga-villages-under-myanmar

Also PDF forces have a presence along the Hkamti-Lahe road IdioticAnarchist (talk) 03:17, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Likely coords for those villages are: ပုံညိုရွာ၊ လဟယ်မြို့နယ် [my] and ဝေလံရွာ၊ လဟယ်မြို့နယ် [my]- with Wailan being in Ponyu village tract. I've included these and Chen Hoyat in UNFLWESEA's control on the new map. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 01:43, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Where is Pounyu, Woilan, and Chen Hoyat on the map? It appears that Pounya and Woilan are in Lahe Township, while the map only shows IIG (Indian Insurgent Group) territory in Layshi? Also, I don't think I've found a map of Chen Hoyat so I don't know where it is, but I may have just forgotten considering I have pretty bad memory. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 20:19, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
Alright, using Google Earth I've found the location of both Chen Hoyat and Chen Throilo (which I've seen mentioned in several articles) and both are in Lahe Township near Pounyu and Woilan, which is not shown on the map. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 23:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
Ah thats my bad I confused the border squiggle with the wrong squiggle. You can get the locations of Ponyu and Wailan on the burmese articles I linked.
I can probably update the map again later tonight-
1) What's the change with Tedim, just that it's contested?
2) I think I agree with Hsi Hseng contested- but you wanted hold off. Still disagree right? EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 23:19, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
I'd say that putting Hsi Hseng as contested is right; and yes, Tedim is contested. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 23:31, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm very sorry, I completely forgot to mention this, but apparently the DKBA-5 controls the Three Pagodas Pass https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/chinese-telecom-scammers-expand-operations-three-pagoda-pass and the KNLA de facto control most of Payathonzu https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/knu-consolidates-full-control-over-three-pagodas-pass-payathonzu-area-administration-spite (and a few months ago Kyaikdon was captured by KNLA forces https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/myanmar-military-commanders-replaced-in-rakhine-mon-and-karen-states-sources.html) IdioticAnarchist (talk) 01:49, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

I need some help with this source about Border Guard Forces (+NDA-K areas)

Latest comment: 5 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

https://mmpeacemonitor.org/313251/border-guard-force-scheme/
This source includes the actual areas controlled by Border Guard Forces, not just their townships. Most of these are self-explanatory and I can find them on maps, but there's areas noted that I'm gonna suppose are smaller towns that I cannot find. These include:

If anyone knows at least a bit of Burmese, can you perhaps give a little help here?

Also, apparently the New Democratic Army - Kachin controls Tsawlaw https://asiafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Militias-in-Myanmar.pdf the "Sidone" area of Waingmaw https://www.frontiermyanmar.net/en/divide-and-rule-in-kachin-state/ and maybe Hpimaw and Kambaiti (which might be referring to the Pass https://geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-614015&fid=687&c=burma) https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/pro-govt-militias-fueling-drugs-crisis-northern-burma-report.htmlIdioticAnarchist (talk) 02:59, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Mon and PDF Resistance control along the Union Highway

Latest comment: 5 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

"The Mon State Revolutionary Force and allies have managed to secure control over a section of the Union Highway running from southern Ye Township to Yebyu Township in Tanintharyi Region." https://www.frontiermyanmar.net/en/a-fledgling-mon-resistance-spreads-its-wings/
And PDF https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/intense-battle-junta-over-control-ye-dawei-road IdioticAnarchist (talk) 16:12, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

UWSA and SSA-N moving to stop rebel advance on Laisho

Latest comment: 4 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

As of now, these two armed groups are not allied the junta, but are moving to contain the MNDAA and the TNLA, with their claimed motives to protect their sphere of influence and to protect civilians.

https://apnews.com/article/myanmar-conflict-wa-shan-militia-lashio-kokang-c3d35e0dc24b04fbb960f1afd3084af5 LordOfWalruses (talk) 15:45, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Map edits (June)

Latest comment: 4 months ago29 comments6 people in discussion

It's the end of the month, therefore it's time to update the map. Cheers y'all!

Nitpicks and suggestions:

  • Mohnyin is not disputed
  • I believe that small villages shouldn't be included on the map because of how minor they are
  • Should the Chin Council and Chin Brotherhood be shown as seperate entities (considering they're kinda enemies and don't like each other)? It can confuse people if, on the map, enemies are shown as the same colour.

Indisputable Edits:

Disputable Edits:

Very Disputable Edits: (needs more research or has articles disputing it, but good to note)

IdioticAnarchist (talk) 19:16, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

What do you mean by small villages? Right now the standard that the base map uses and that I've modified is- township capitals are shown. Smaller villagers are shown if particularly relevant to the specific update (e.g. Chinshwehaw when it was taken, Dotphonenyan when it was taken, etc.); i don't remove those dots but will remove the labelled name to reduce clutter. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 21:21, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
By "small villages" I was specifically talking about Somra and possibly Moe Bye. I just think that the map should only include larger, more important settlements (towns and higher). Of course, that is just my opinion. Also, I was under the impression that Chinshwehaw and Dotphonenyan were towns? Google says they are. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 21:32, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
They are but not township capitals. Mobye is a village but it used to be the capital of the relatively large historical Karenni state iirc- It's also three times larger than Pekon, the township capital so tbh I'm always surprised when I remember that it's not even a town, much less having its own township. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 00:14, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
Wow, I did not know any of that! That's good to know! It does seem a bit strange that it isn't "Moebye Township". IdioticAnarchist (talk) 02:06, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
So @IdioticAnarchist, looks like @Borysk5 updated the map using Thomas. I will go through it later tonight based on this discussion here and edit it, since there's definitely a lot of unsourced things that Thomas just map-painted (like half of Ann Township falling? No source on that besides a presence Taungup-Pandaung road, which got removed for some reason).
My question here is: I agree that Chin Council and Chin Brotherhood should be shown as seperate entities, but there's very little sources on the exact control- some villages reported as one or the other but not much on the frontlines or control outside those villages. I do see what you mean though, random villages like Camp Victoria don't need to be on the map. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 19:22, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Honestly, I was planning on mentioning that when I woke up, but it appears you beat me to it (I just woke up). Thomas Van Linge, while helpful, can make some...outlandish claims in his maps (usually with no evidence). Like you said with Ann Township, or the supposed "gains" made by the SSPP and the RCSS. I've tried to call him out a few times for this on his Twitter, but he never responds. So, to @Borysk5, while your edits are well-appreciated and in good faith, it's far more constructive to make edits which have credible sources backing them up. If a map change has no source backing it up, don't add it.
Anyway, I'm also unsure on the CC and CB, perhaps we can use the "Stakeholders" map on the Chinland page? I think that's kinda the best we got. I can look around for some other maps, but it likely won't lead to much. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 20:00, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Oh, sure. As for Chinland, when you look what names are mentioned for captured of Chin cities, it looks roughly like this. Borysk5 (talk) 20:35, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Could you perhaps send the image in a different way, I cannot see it? IdioticAnarchist (talk) 22:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
I can use this and WP:AGF that you checked the sources. Thanks! EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 23:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
I don't know if the source directly states that Hsi Hseng town is under the control of the SAC - it could be referring to the township, and I haven't seen anything else that indicates the town was successfully retaken by the junta.
Also, you should put this information on the towns' respective pages so that the detailed map can be updated (please im desperate). CrazyMagicPickle (talk) 20:48, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
I've done the update now-
The source for Mongmit doesn't say it's cut off. I moved the TNLA frontline to capture areas where the bases mentioned in that article are.
Divided Chin into three groups, kept them similar but let me know if you don't like the colours for accessibility etc. I made Arakan's cities a bit darker for that reason.
Hsihseng is indeed not taken, the article says they arrived at a junction on the Hsihseng-Loikaw road, so it's actually great junta control in Karenni. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 03:07, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
I, like usual (I'm admittedly quite stubborn), have a few nitpicks:
Of course, don't take any of this personally. You did an amazing job on the map (like always), I just nitpick very small things which I don't see as right. Good job on the map! IdioticAnarchist (talk) 04:57, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
Fixed see upload on imgur while I wait for some responses [1]
IdioticAnarchist (talk) 20:20, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for that! I've pushed the new update out, including Lashio. Expanded NDA-K to include Kanpikeit and gave KIA Hpare- I was confused because Hpare wasn't actually in that KIA blob in last month's map; probably my own oversight.
Thandwe Airport isn't in the city limits, Google Earth highlights the township. It's in Ziphyukyun village tract according to the GAD https://themimu.info/sites/themimu.info/files/documents/TspProfiles_GAD_Thandwe_2019_MMR.pdf (page 13). EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 23:19, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
The source doesn't seem to state that Kyiakdon was captured - just that a junta outpost was taken. I'm not sure if that's enough to ascribe control of the entire town to the KNLA. CrazyMagicPickle (talk) 05:57, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
"Junta has also lost control of Kyaikdon Sub-township" IdioticAnarchist (talk) 06:12, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, that doesnt say the town was taken- lost control of the subtownship could mean many things- looks like this is specifically about enforcing conscription EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 07:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Thandwe was apparently seized by the Arakha army UnJapóLliure (talk) 10:44, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
I believe the Irrawaddy reported on it, please correct me 😅 UnJapóLliure (talk) 10:45, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
That is correct, Thandwe has been captured. You can add it to the map if you'd like. I usually give these map edits monthly, so they'll be added to the map probably by next week. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 18:27, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Btw with so many different factions currently on map I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just directly embed faction names on the map like I did in File:War in Central African Republic.svg instead of using legend. Borysk5 (talk) 04:21, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree, that kind of key would make it very useful. I can work on adding it, but I also want to update the colours being used- since PDF is usually depicted as red with junta as green within burma; those should really get flipped IMO. Most likely I won't be able to get those making this until next week- so feel free to add a key if you want EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 12:15, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
I feel like a key similar to the ones Thomas Van Linge uses (a key at the side listing the different groups and their colours) would be helpful. I don't mean to be rude, the embedding faction names directly onto their territory isn't aesthetically pleasing, and also it doesn't show the full extent of who controls what. That's why I added all the little footnotes on the infobox key. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 19:56, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
Agree, I find the names of the combatant groups quite bad looking on the map, I think the best option would be putting a legend inside the map (in a corner of it possibly) but I have no idea how to do it or if it's possible to do it. Wikidoge04 (talk) 01:35, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
My main concern is, with so many similar colors trying to find a group on the map especially for people with limited color vision may be challenging. We could do it differently, like having Anne's outside the map and connecting them by lines or smth similar. Borysk5 (talk) 05:49, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
I think similar to the CAR map, callout names outside the borders would be good- especially with a few disconnected entities making colour harder to use EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 12:25, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
Maybe we could, instead of putting names over the EAO's, put numbers. Then we can have a key at the bottom saying what number is what entity. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 19:37, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Map edits (July)

Latest comment: 3 months ago14 comments4 people in discussion

Yet another month has passed (an eventful month at that)! Honestly, I did not think that MNDAA forces had the ability to capture Lashio, and it sure is a historic defeat for the Tatmadaw!

Nitpicks and suggestions:

Indisputable edits:

Disputable Edits:

Very Disputable Edits: (needs more research or has articles disputing it, but good to note)

IdioticAnarchist (talk) 02:00, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks again for all these! I think UWSA left Lashio almost immediately though. Apparently took some hospital staff. My source is two telegram channels unfortunately inadmissable for wikipedia. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 15:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
A little update: it appears as though TNLA forces captured the final junta base near Mongmit, capturing the township. https://bur.mizzima.com/2024/07/31/28833
And Inle Lake base captured by PDF (And PNA in Nyaungshwe township) https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/war-against-the-junta/anti-regime-groups-seize-myanmar-junta-positions-in-southern-shan-state.html
Also I'm unsure on the exact situation with the UWSA in Lashio, but I haven't heard any news that they've left yet. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 23:46, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
As for UWSA in Lashio, they don't control their external office anymore, there's video on Chinese social media showing MNDAA fighters around damaged office. UWSA forces in Lashio were only geolocated in the southwestern part of the town (see: File:LashioBattle.svg). Borysk5 (talk) 05:39, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
The UWSA's deployment isn't very important from a territorial perspective, imho. It's definitely important to analyze the Wa State's evolving role in the war, but I doubt it's worthy of being referenced on a map primarily showing military operations and control. CrazyMagicPickle (talk) 15:50, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
Some extra updates:
For Lailenpi, I'd argue the AA is acting more as a benefactor and supporter to the CB, so I'd say that you can show it as soley CB controlled. CrazyMagicPickle (talk) 15:42, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
The source stated "MDF-AA advance", and implies that both the MDF and AA occupied the town together, although it does state that only the MDF participated in clearance operations, so I don't know. I'd agree with you that it can probably be shown as pure CB control IdioticAnarchist (talk) 17:38, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
Has anybody found any more information about the NDAA entering Mong Yawng? The only source I've seen is this one in Burmese https://burmese.shannews.org/archives/42964, and it's unclear about the actual situation inside the city. CrazyMagicPickle (talk) 16:10, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
There's practically no news on the situation in Mongyawng. Like I said, I've seen claims that it was just a small group of soldiers looking for recruits who stumbled in and quickly left, and considering how no one's talking about it I'd be inclined to believe that. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 17:06, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
Changes implemented!
Pretty much ignored all changes from the 25 July Map as no sources were mentioned and focused on your list- most of it overlaps anyways
  • Updated the Muse area based on that initial article,
  • Added an area around Lailenpi for CB to connect with AA - but really no source on this so its contestable
  • The springmonitor Wa borders conflict with the SSPP controlling Mongyai- I've edited the southwestern borders to reflect this; better sources can contest this
  • For Payathonzu I think it indicates at least that there's less military presence in the area surrounding- which I've added.
  • For Mongyawng, I've moved the NDAA control towards it for now given the lack of information
  • No clue really what "controls most of Thandwe Township" means so I only increased some of the splotches of AA control around Thandwe
EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 23:15, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
Great map as usual! I, also like usual, have some additions.
  • Thandwe town captured (and, I'd say that maps like Myanmar War Map or Thomas Van Linge's, which shows most of Ann/Taungup Township as AA control to be accurate) https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/current-situation-thandwe-town-following-aa-control
  • The Springmonitor source (Wa's the big deal?) does show SSPP control over Mongyai. Also, what's with that additional UWSA control south of Mongyai? Also, the Irrawaddy Wa source states that Wa doesn't control Matman ("Matman is overseen by the Myanmar military’s Triangle Region Command and has not been discussed by the two sides.")
  • What's that contested area west of Thantlang?
  • Why do colours like the Lailenpi and Manhero areas overlap with the national borders?
  • I plan on listing the Myanmar War Map sources soon, maybe with next month's list.
Like I said: great map! IdioticAnarchist (talk) 00:44, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
Ah I missed the Thandwe capture and that extra town west of thantlang was a mistake. I just completely misinterpreted the map in the UWSA/SSPP source. I've fixed these now
Re: Matman, I'm think those borders might have come from the NDAA Wa South report from very early on in making the base map. I'm going to see if there's a better map or more sources on that expanded Wa control beyond their de jure borders EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 02:38, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
Sorry, but Thandwe town's capture still isn't shown IdioticAnarchist (talk) 19:45, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

About Taungoo

Latest comment: 3 months ago4 comments4 people in discussion

Burmese here, and I think Taungoo is not in any sort of "Battle" Only in Laiketo There are small battles but I don't Think It isn't enough to have Toungoo displayed in the disputed square. 2400:AC40:627:31C0:1562:B6AD:54AE:B13F (talk) 05:11, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Taungoo isn't displayed as contested EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 21:58, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
In the "click here for an accurate, up to date map" part, which is actually neither accurate or up to date... UnJapóLliure (talk) 11:03, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
Hi! I think a lot of the cities shown as contested with the PDFs are in areas where there is significant guerrilla activity in those townships - unfortunately I haven't had the time to revert all of those cities to junta control. However, cities shown as under rebel control are accurate, and the sources can be found in the linked articles. CrazyMagicPickle (talk) 15:56, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

New section split?

Latest comment: 3 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I was going to make a big section overhaul (yet again) after doing some copyediting. For example, splitting at the start of Operation 1027 part 2. However, I think that splitting the 2024 section will just make things more confusing not to mention that analyses have not really been keeping up with the July and August news. The Rakhine offensive and the Chin infighting largely aren't being affected by Operation 1027 Part 2 like they were during the original Operation 1027.

It is really long and I will do some copyediting to pare it down more, but I think that the best solution for now is to move some of the details elsewhere. However, I'm just having difficulty deciding on what's relevant enough for this main article. From som perspectives, pretty much everything in the continued Chin offensive could go to Chin theater or all of the MNDAA/TNLA details to go into Operation 1027 Part 2.

I'm still open to the idea of splitting the entire article into 2021-2023 and 2023-present as suggested a while back. However, again, not that many sources. So just putting a Talk out here to hear more thoughts EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 21:22, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, something needs to be done about the timeline bloat. I'd suggest leaving the broad strokes (i.e. capture of Mogok and Lashio) in this article, but perhaps taking the majority(?) of the other details and moving it to the theater/offensive specific articles. It would be nice to have some sort of quality "Timeline of the Myanmar civil war" article, but the one that exists is sorely lacking and I'm not sure it could even be rescued at this point. CrazyMagicPickle (talk) 16:29, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

We should add a map change time lapse

Latest comment: 3 months ago4 comments3 people in discussion

Similar to the time-lapses on the article about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, a timelapse of the map day-by-day of the Myanmar civil war would help significantly in understanding the power dynamics and the general military situation of the war. Even if we don’t have enough data to make a timelapse of the entire war, a timelapse of one year, one operation, or even one month would be very helpful in understanding the conflict. LordOfWalruses (talk) 01:43, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

I do agree this could be very helpful. However, very few credible/good maps exist from before 2023 and Operation 1027. Most maps show ludicrous resistance holdings (I've seen several maps show the KIA controlling all of Kachin State, or CNA controlling Hakha in the early war) or very confusing overlapping territorial holdings. Good maps from pre-2021 are, to my knowledge, practically nonexistent. I don't have the skill nor ability to make a timelapse map, but I could help with research and dates, if someone does decide to make a map. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 07:06, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
I made a video on the conflict: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8EPpUB6cUM, though it's obviously original research. Borysk5 (talk) 08:35, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
Even if the map began right after Operation 1027, that would be fine; anything to show step-by-step gains from then to now is welcome (though shorter time-jumps are optimal). LordOfWalruses (talk) 19:25, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
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