User talk:Beshogur/Archive 7

Archive 1

←

Archive 5

Archive 6

Archive 7

Archive 8

Archive 9

Archive 10

Kitab-i Diyarbakriyya

Do you have any information regarding this historical text? --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:20, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: I found an entry on TDV IA not sure if Google translate works good. It says that it was written to compile Uzun Hasan's victories, and therefore the defeat during Battle of Otlukbeli was not included, although it told the events prior to that. It also says that Uzun Hasan has a genealogy to Adam, etc. (might also be related to how Ottomans did. Oghuz Khagan, Noah, etc.) It says that it's an important book for Aqqoyunlus but it is (assuming from the found copy) incomplete. Beshogur (talk) 23:53, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Does the published version by Necati Lugal and Faruk Sümer, happen to mention what language Abu Bakr-i Tihrani wrote the Kitab-i Diyarbakriyya?? Like Oghuz Turkish, Azerbaijani Turkish?? --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:26, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: Ebû Bekr-i Tihrânî’nin (ö. 882/1477’den sonra) Akkoyunlular’a dair Farsça eseri yep Persian. Beshogur (talk) 00:38, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Well, damn. That pisses me off! --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:44, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: why? Beshogur (talk) 00:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

I was hoping I had found an historical text decreed by Uzun Hasan and written in Oghuz Turkish/Azerbaijani Turkish. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:15, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes, recent genetic test show it - Bulgars have nothing to do with the mongols or turkic people. We are the autochthonous population of the Balkans and the area near Azov sea and Volga river area. A comparative genetic study shows the Bulgarians primarily represented by the Western Eurasian Y haplogroups, with 40% belonging to haplogroups E-V13 and I-M423, and 20% to R-M17 (R-M198 and R-M458). Haplogroups common in the Middle East (J-M172, J-M267, and G-M201) and in South Western Asia (R-L23*) occur at frequencies of 19% and 5%, respectively. Haplogroups C, N and Q together occur at the negligible frequency of only 1.5% among Bulgarians.

(talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vanya Ilcheva (talk • contribs) 10:44, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Helpful site

Search for books on this site.[1] --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:06, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: thanks. Beshogur (talk) 11:09, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Help

Could keep an eye on this page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nader_Shah

Thanks.MythicalAlien (talk) 22:18, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Şehzade Murad (son of Cem Sultan)

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Şehzade Murad (son of Cem Sultan) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be an unambiguous copyright infringement. This page appears to be a direct copy from https://www.google.com/search?hl=nl&tbm=bks&sxsrf=ALeKk02RjQgTkhHUzuTkuOZMQ7Fhe1So2w%3A1611761485955&ei=TYcRYPrvOYzZkwW4j62ICQ&q=Jem+%27+s+only+other+surviving+son+%2C+Prince+Murat+%2C+fled+from+Cairo+to+Rhodes+%2C+because+he+feared+%2C+with+good+reason+%2C+that+the+Mamluks+would+surrender+him+to+Beyazit+%2C+who+would+kill+him+just+as+he+had+executed+his+brother+O%C4%9Fuzhan+.+Marino&oq=Jem+%27+s+only+other+surviving+son+%2C+Prince+Murat+%2C+fled+from+Cairo+to+Rhodes+%2C+because+he+feared+%2C+with+good+reason+%2C+that+the+Mamluks+would+surrender+him+to+Beyazit+%2C+who+would+kill+him+just+as+he+had+executed+his+brother+O%C4%9Fuzhan+.+Marino&gs_l=psy-ab.3...1084.1084.0.1432.1.1.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.0.0....0.KA93mL5dlp4. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images taken from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites or other printed material as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If the external website or image belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text or image — which means allowing other people to use it for any reason — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. The same holds if you are not the owner but have their permission. If you are not the owner and do not have permission, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for how you may obtain it. You might want to look at Wikipedia's copyright policy for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Pupsterlove02 talk • contribs 15:48, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

@Pupsterlove02: Ooh sorry, I was going to do Beshogur/Şehzade Murad (son of Cem Sultan). I'm really sorry for that. Beshogur (talk) 15:50, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

@Beshogur: Regardless, copyright infringing material cannot remain on the encyclopedia, even in userspace; please see WP:USERFY#What cannot be userfied. Pupsterlove02 talk • contribs 15:55, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Consulation

I have created this article to discuss İslamic-Middle Eastern style fortresses (aka. kal'a or qala) what do you think about it?--Visnelma (talk) 17:52, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi User:Beshogur

Please don't vandalise this page is used to update the Economies of Kurdistan, regardless of your Turkic view — Preceding unsigned comment added by Modazadi5 (talk • contribs) 21:50, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry

Really sorry, I hope you forgive me because of the conflict^^, let's be good friends^^, bye. Luân777 (talk) 04:49, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Luân777: there is no conflict. Why do you keep adding Dzungar khanate? Beshogur (talk) 11:49, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Not the way to go about editing

You should not make unilateral edits on 'good articles', you should raise matters on the talk page first, where you can outline your arguments and present your case. That you appear correct in this instance - though I need to do more checking - in no way excuses your high-handed attitude to editing. Urselius (talk) 18:40, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

About Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

Hi, you undid my edit on the page about Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. Why?Ata Barış (talk) 15:21, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

(passing by and seeing this) [2] I'm guessing no source and nothing about these names in the article, the infobox is supposed to be simple facts from the article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:42, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

@User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång I think this could be a reference for his sisters / brothers; https://www.google.com.tr/search?sxsrf=alekk00ztryh-dngrlm0syzkvz1uefswcg%3a1613226199238&source=hp&ei=1-anymluc_kmlwtq5laocw&iflsig=aınfcbyaaaaaycfu53nn1rp1gnmcr7bqy9zc4dgfl5n_&q=atat%c3%bcrk%27%c3%bcn+karde%c5%9fleri&oq=&gs_lcp= Ata Barış (talk) 16:05, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

@Ata Barış: not a source. Beshogur (talk) 16:29, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

@Beshogur: There are no sources in the section we are talking about. So why are resources needed for this?

But this is a source: https://www.rotakoleji.com/ataturkun-ailesi-ve-kardesleri Ata Barış (talk) 16:44, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

If the article is done right, the stuff in the infobox has refs in the article-text. If not, they should be reffed or be removed. That ref seems to be a school, afaict not obviously a bad source. I suggest you use it in the Early life section first if you want to include the names. Is it known which "number" of these Ataturk was, I'd expect the article to mention that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:41, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Removal of my content

I demand an explanation on the removal of my edit in "List of proposed state mergers".

Nicxjo (talk) 12:24, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

@Nicxjo: that is not a state merger, that is an irredentist concept. Beshogur (talk) 14:21, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 19

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Mongol Empire, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Togrul.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:30, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Undoing edits

Stop undoing peoples edits, you will not be warned again, if you feel my edits are wrong, feel free to bring an administrator to review the edits. 92.28.107.71 (talk) 16:12, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

@92.28.107.71: sure. Beshogur (talk) 16:14, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Don't get into an edit war (Azerbaijan Democratic Republic)

Hi. I note that ChillManChill has tried twice, within a single day, to change the text of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic to say this was the first (not third) secular democratic republic in the Turkic and Muslim worlds. I've warned ChillManChill not to engage in edit warring, and since he reverted your change without explanation, I'm giving you a gentle proactive reminder about the edit warring policy. If there is a legitimate dispute here, I hope you and others will hash it out on the article's talk page and seek a consensus. When edit warring does happen, there is a danger that everyone involved (not just the true edit warrior) may get caught up in whatever enforcement measures end up being invoked. Happy editing. — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 00:40, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Removal of My Content

Can you please explain why you removed my edits in the establishment section of the article? Also next time you make an edit or undo one, please leave an edit summary or explanation of why. Thanks! SherKhaan (talk) 16:50, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Saltukids

Why did you change the Saltukids , Research into turkish sources they declared their independence after Kilic Arslan went on campaigns Sythid (talk) 00:12, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

WP:OR where are your sources? Beshogur (talk) 00:21, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

i was listing them but you removed it , search it up you are turkish right? i will list some sources if you want? Sythid (talk) 00:50, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Here are some sources , https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sar%C4%B1_Saltuk The turkish wikipedia stating Sari Saltuk is from this Dynasty and they are alevi in which it shows all the sources on this page

The Dynasty comes from the caliph Ali Ibn Abu Talib source is https://yolpedia.eu/saltuklular-ve-sari-saltuk/ /// https://www.uludivan.de/Sar%26%23305%3B-Salt%26%23305%3Bk-Oca%26%23287%3B%26%23305%3B.htm in Alevism there is something called ocak which is a hearth it is for people who descend from various heroes and legends and there is one ocak called Sari Saltik Ocak in which they descend from Sari Saltuk as shown in the link above another ocak is called Baba Mansur Ocagi which descends from Baba Mansur who is the fourth son of Sultan Melik Izzeddin Saltuk as stated in this source http://www.hbv-koeln.de/baba-mansur-oca.html i am from this Ocak Izzeddin Saltuk is my direct ancestor.

- The Kars Castle in Turkey was commissioned by my forefather Sultan Melik Izzeddin Saltuk and was built by his Vizier Firuz Akay as shown https://www.castles.nl/kars-castle here is another source from Turkish Source https://www.hurriyet.com.tr/seyahat/kars-kalesi-nerede-kars-kalesi-tarihi-ozellikleri-ve-hakkinda-bilgi-41513551

Further Sources about the saltukids ^ Özaydın, Abdülkerim (2009). "Saltuklular" . Encyclopedia of Islam . Encyclopedia of Islam. s. 54. On April 29, 2020 from sources archived . Retrieved April 29, 2020 . ^ Yinanç, Mükrimin Halil (2013). History of Turkey Seljuk Period Volume I (Prepared for publication: Prof. Dr. Rafet YİNANÇ) . Ankara: Turkish Historical Society. s. 65,69,89. ISBN 978-975-16-2534-2 . ^ Yılmaz Öztuna, "States and Dynasties" Volume: 2, Ministry of Culture Publications, Ankara 1996, p. 42

As i said before They were a Alevi Dynasty who after the battle of manzikert established a beylik and the founder was Ebul Kasim Saltuk Bey , then when Kilic Arslan started to go on campaigns the Saltuks got their independence and then his sons and descendents will rule with the title of Sultan / Melik Here is more info about Sari Saltuk which includes his family tree http://isamveri.org/pdfdrg/D01093/2005_34/2005_34_SALTIKV.pdf

And Finally if you have any doubt please research into the sources i have given and change the wiki page as it is not correct Sythid (talk) 01:16, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

One more thing i apologise if i have came at this the wrong way i am new to editing and wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sythid (talk • contribs) 01:18, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Vandalism

Stop vandalizing the Cyprus Emergency page, take any issues you have to talk k thanks bye. 81.178.217.203 (talk) 12:12, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi

Can you add zunbils on list of turkic dynasties and countries they are turkic? Loveisthebest1 (talk) 16:21, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Uzun Hasan

Hey Beshogur, I can not find a battle fought by Uzun Hasan in 1471. Any ideas? --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:17, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: I'm also not sure, probably one of the battles/raids of Uzun Hasan prior to the Otlukbeli battle. I didn't find anything either. Beshogur (talk) 22:44, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: "In 877/1471, Kak̲h̲tā [q.v.] and Gargar were occupied by Uzun Ḥasan’s troops, but the amīr Yes̲h̲bek al-Dawādār sent by Ḳāʾit Bay [q.v.] drove the Aḳ Ḳoyunlu out of Bīra." -- Minorsky, V. & Bosworth, C.E. (2000). "Uzun Ḥasan". In Bearman, P. J.; Bianquis, Th.; Bosworth, C. E.; van Donzel, E. & Heinrichs, W. P. (eds.). The Encyclopaedia of Islam, New Edition, Volume X: T–U. Leiden: E. J. Brill. pp. 963–967.

I guess its this one?... - LouisAragon (talk) 00:42, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Kahta is in Adiyaman, probably something else. Beshogur (talk) 00:46, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

How to protect the articles of Turkic Empires from being vandalized by iranians?

Especially this "historyofiran" guy, quite obsessed with the various Turkic empires which ruled iran from 1000ad till 1900ad, trying to turn all the articles into propaganda. He changed the Seljuk Empire into "Turko-Persian". While Turks had the full command, and iranians were basically living in the territory.

How can we prevent this guy from hijacking the articles? Should we bring out the fact that iranians were highly arabized? It's like calling Turkey "Turko-European" country because we adopted latin alphabet, and European democratic values. 88.230.181.227 (talk) 19:43, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Montro 'crisis'

Hi. I think this new "crisis" regarding Montro and the subsequent statement by ex-TSK admirals are notable enough to have its own article. Though, I can't decide this myself. What do you think? And would you contribute to the possible article? --► Sincerely: Solavirum 09:41, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

@Solavirum: I don't think is notable enough. They're not generals in power, but retired. Don't think it can be considered as a memorandum or a coup attempt. Beshogur (talk) 09:54, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 7

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Golden Horde, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Kaffa.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:52, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Persian vs Farsi

Dear Beshogur; I see you have again undone my edit regarding the correct usage of the English word "Persian" vs the Persian word "Farsi". When you reverted my edit, you have asked "why not" ... please read my explanation on the previous edit, where I have clearly explained why not. I'll try an example or two : let's take a hypothetical article/world where the Afshari dialect was not "embedded in a Persian-speaking environment" and Persian had not become "the mother tongue of the Afshārs" ... but let's imagine that the Afshari dialect was "embedded in a German-speaking environment" and German had become "the mother tongue of the Afshārs"; if you were to write the exact same article, would you have said that the Afshari dialect was "embedded in a Deutsch-speaking environment" and Deutsch had become "the mother tongue of the Afshārs"?? you can replace Deutsch and German in this example, with : 1) Italiano and Italian 2) al-Arabiyah and Arabic 3) Polski and Polish 4) Español and Spanish 5) Français and French 6) Türkçe and Turkish 7) Română and Romanian ... ... ... ... ... ... ... the list goes on.

I'm sure that, being a linguist, you see exactly what I mean.

Now.. the other side of the coin : I have since noticed that the bit I edited is, in fact, a direct quote ... so my edit had been unnecessary and wrong. My apologies.

But the explanation above was only to elaborate on your question of "why not". Have a nice day!

@2.178.232.88: hello, the problem is, you can't change quotes as if you want. That's what I am saying. Beshogur (talk) 11:29, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree ... that's what I said! I noticed it was a quote and should not have been changed. But the explanation was only in response to your question of "why not" :-)

Have a great day and happy editing!

@2.178.232.88: thanks for your understanding. Same. Beshogur (talk) 10:54, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Need your assistance

Hey, Beshogur. Haven't heard from you for years it seems. How you've been doing? I hope you and your family are safe and sound. Well, straight to business: I'm writing to you as I know that you have particular interest and involvement in the Golden Horde-related topics, and I have recently added a whole new section to the article "Oz beg Khan". I would like your assistance here, specifically in such areas as providing appropriate links to some of the scholars I mentioned in that section, copy editing (using block quotations if necessary and etc), and so on. I would really appreciate that and remember, whenever you need similar help, you can always count on me as well ;-). Thanks, and take care! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 05:54, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Hey Visioncurve. Thanks for your thoughts. I hope you are fine as well. I try to edit about Golden Horde whenever I find something new. I don't have much information about Özbeg khan but will try my best. Beshogur (talk) 11:00, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, pal. I never doubted it, even for a split second. However, I was looking to link the Medieval scholars mentioned in that new section, such as Al-Mufaddal, Al-Birzali to the corresponding wiki articles, but interestingly enough, I could not find them, perhaps they are spelled differently for some reason in Wikipedia. I really hope that Wiki does have articles about them (they deserve that:-))... And how about block quotations, do you think applying them will be unappealing to an eye, as the quotations used there are too many and too short, to write them separately from the rest of the text? Nonetheless, thank you once again, and take care! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 04:34, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

@Visioncurve: IA mentions the same names, but not sure how to find those primary sources. BTW, I removed the modern spellings of Golden Horde, reason for that being these languages does not represent the original spoken language back then. Beshogur (talk) 06:51, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Not a problem, I added them just to give a hand to those who may be wondering how the name of that Turkic state sounded in Late Medieval Kipchak Turkic, with Tatar language seemingly being the closest and modern Tatars claiming descent from the people of the Golden Horde. Cheers! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 07:27, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Hunchback royalties has been nominated for renaming

Category:Hunchback royalties has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Celia Homeford (talk) 13:24, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Hello

My edits on Pruth River Campaign were deleted by you, I have proofs Baltagy took bribe http://tarih34.com/prut-savasi-1711_h1878.html https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ai1YhNtRGgM YUMOYOY (talk) 15:09, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

IMPORTANT

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkic_dynasties_and_countries If you go here and slide down you will see "Turko-Persian states" I looked at your projects a bit and as it seems they are Iranians again. The Seljuk Empire is also on the list YUMOYOY (talk) 15:18, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Beshogur. You have new messages at Talk:Uzes (people).
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Turkmens

Beshogur, Why did you revert my change that Turkmens are called Turkmen Turks in Turkey? Your cite only Turkish sources to justify this, nowhere else except Turkey Turkmens are called that way.

Here is the definition of Britannica about the name of the Turkmens: "Turkmen (people). Alternative Titles: Turcoman, Turkmeny, Turkoman." - Turkmen (people)

Here is what the Big Russian Encyclopedia says about the name of the Turkmens: "ТУРКМЕ́НЫ (тур­ко­ма­ны; са­мо­на­зва­ние – турк­мен, мн. ч. турк­мен­лер; араб., перс. те­ре­ке­ме, ус­тар. рус. – трух­ме­ны, трух­мен­цы, трух­мя­не) - TURKMEN (Turkomans; self-name - Turkmen, plural Turkmenler; Arabic, Persian Terekeme, obsolete Russian - Trukhmeny, Trukhmentsy, Trukhmyane). Bayram A (talk) 17:28, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

@Bayram A:, did read wrong. Sorry. Beshogur (talk) 17:45, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

You did nothing wrong there, Beshogur. The sources does not exclusively say that Turkmens are known as Turkmen Turks only in Turkey. In this case, the lead of the article "Azerbaijanis" should also be changed. Moreover, if something is missing in Britannica does not mean that it is non-existent or wrong all the way. Britannica is not always and should not be considered as a reliable source just as Wikipedia itself. I'm restoring the previous, more stable version of the article. --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 03:16, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Bayram A (talk) 18:58, 19 April 2021 (UTC) Once again, you guys say "also known as Turkmen Turks" but provide only Turkish sources to support that: 1. If Turkmens are "also known as Turkmen Turks" outside of Turkey, it is clear that you should mention reliable sources from a number of other countries in which this is stated. Otherwise, like I said in my previous post, it should be stated "also known in Turkey as Turkmen Turks". 2. There is wrong mentioning that Turkmens call themselves in the Turkmen language as "Türkmen türkleri". I am a Turkmen living in Turkmenistan and we never call ourselves "Türkmen türkleri" (Turkmen Turks), we absolutely separate the ethnonym "Turk" which is used to call the people of Turkey from the ethnonym "Turkmen", which is our name. However, if you have reliable sources stating that that Turkmens call themselves "Türkmen türkleri" (Turkmen Turks), please kindly mention them in the article. Bayram A (talk) 18:58, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

@Bayram A: Hi. I understand your "good faith" point of view in its entirety, but... but just as everywhere, there is always a snag. That ethnic group that are Turkmen in the sense of the above-mentioned article (Turkmens), do not only live in Turkmenistan, but also in neighboring Iran, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan and in distant Russia. As far as it goes, these Turkmens, especially those that reside in two of the three Khorasan provinces (Razavi and North) and Golestan province of Iran are known collectively as "Turkmen turks" in some reputable and contemporary Iranian sources. You may encounter it in a number of Iranian scientific studies and academic materials that, to my deep regret, are rarely found in the internet. However, if you have enough time at your disposal, something that I long for, surf the internet searching for that expression in its Persian translation and I'm sure you will come across some of the relevant sources that will put your doubts to rest.

PS: Omidvaaram ke Faarsi midaanid. Take care! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 09:07, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Bayram A (talk) 06:33, 20 April 2021 (UTC) Hi. I have no problem with the mentioning of "Turkmen Turks" if supported by the reliable sources. You say "As far as it goes, these Turkmens, especially those that reside in two of the three Khorasan provinces (Razavi and North) and Golestan province of Iran are known collectively as "Turkmen turks" in some reputable and contemporary Iranian sources." Then please cite these concrete sources in support of your statement. This is Wikipedia and every statement should be linked to a reliable source, "good faith" will not work here. Thanks! Bayram A (talk) 06:33, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

@Bayram A:, it seems that you are just trying to hammer home you point of view. I also think that our discussion is a little derailed and is now "all over the map" apart from the quotation of my words from my previous answer you correctly used in your reply. Credit where it's due - you are really getting the hang of it, not for nothing but I suspect you didn't read my answer to the end, did you? Because if you did, you should have noticed yet another snag I was trying to bring delicately to your attention:"... to my deep regret, are rarely found in the internet". That's to say, these sources usually come in or as books, and if you were able to imply from my following statement (where I hoped you had enough time at your disposal and I didn't), you would have inferred that I won't go to libraries or elsewhere in search of them. I'm just keeping my head above water with all of the other stuff I have to do. Besides, it's actually you who wanted to change a sourced information according to your own "good faith" beliefs, so fair enough to say that it's you who should be providing sources in support of your statement that expression in dispute is used only in the Republic of Turkey. --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 09:07, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

PS: I think we have talked as much as we can for now, so let's call it a day. But hit me up if you decide to post a reply. Thanks!

Bayram A (talk) 16:35, 20 April 2021 (UTC) Sources can be cited even if they are not in the Internet, but have been published and are considered reliable. As for my statement "Also known in Turkey as Turkmen Turks", the sources for that are there in the article as [11][12][13] posted by the author of the statement "also known as Turkmen Turks". All of these 3 sources are from Turkey. Thanks for taking time and letting everyone know your point of view. In general, the article "Turkmens" is a well-written one.Bayram A (talk) 16:35, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

@Bayram A:, thanks for your time as well. Initially, I thought that the outcome of this dispute would leave a sour taste in the mouth, but now it seems to have been a blessing in disguise. Hope to collaborate with you on similar topics in the future.

PS: I'm glad to learn that this article has caught your eye and you think it's well-written. Hours and hours of work has not gone for nothing. Take care! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 03:54, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

@Visioncurve: @Bayram A:

The "Turkmen Turks" narrative thing is probably related to this (Çakır Ceyhan Suvari, Elif Kanca. (2012). "Turkey and Azerbaijan: On the Myth of Sharing the same Origin and Culture." Iran and the Caucasus (16: 2). pp. 247-256[3]):

• "”Outside Turks” live outside the boundaries of the Turkish Republic. This conceptualisation refers to a homogeneous Turkish identity that stems from the same roots, shares a common culture, and speaks the same language. As a result of such an understanding, it is suggested that Azerbaijanis, Uzbeks and Kazaks are all Turkish peoples, ignoring all differences regarding culture, religion, and language. Turkey is the centre of this perception of “Turkishness”, the model of the super-ordinate identity presented to other Turkic societies. For this reason, some Turkish politicians and academics argue that "Outside Turks" are in need of Turkey’s protection, and only Turkey can provide a model for them (Gömeç 2007: 120)."
• "The national ideology of Turkish Republic, which considers itself the leader of the Turkic communities, views the others as “brothers” in a “single nation” with Turkey, of course, as the “big brother” and “protector”. Turkey considers itself the most advanced nation in terms of civilisation and culture and sees its role in teaching its “advanced” culture to these “Outside Turks” who barely survived from Russian “captivity”."
• "The criteria of “common origin” and “common language/culture” maintain their centrality in the definition of nation-state identity. Considering this, Turkish researchers who study the origin of Turks have stated that they, as one of the oldest societies of the world, have established large states and formed great civilisations throughout history. According to them, Russians are the first people responsible for the dividedness of “Turks” who currently live in different countries and form separate Asian states."

Thought you gentlemen might be interested. - LouisAragon (talk) 20:44, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

That's thought-provoking and most probably true. Indeed, National Territorial Delimitation policy of the young Soviet Union regarding unified Russian Turkestan in 1920s is commonly portrayed as a cynical exercise of the "divide and rule", a deliberate attempt to maintain Soviet hegemony over the region by dividing its people into separate nations. Journailst Ed Stourton of the Guardian argues that Stalin himself drew lines on a map to form new Soviet republics in the 1920s, with borders deliberately drawn so as to leave minorities within each state. This was necessary to ensure that none of the newly created states would become too powerful for Russia to handle in the future as it would regularly be shaken by inter-ethnic violence.

These books are particularly interesting and fit for further reading on this topic:

• 1. Khalid, Adeeb (2015) Making Uzbekistan: Nation, Empire, and Revolution in the Early USSR, Cornell University Press.
• 2. Bergne, Paul (2007) The Birth of Tajikistan: National Identity and the Origins of the Republic, IB Taurus & Co Ltd.
• 3. Starr, S. Frederick (ed.) (2011) Ferghana Valley – the Heart of Central Asia, Routledge.

--Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 04:03, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Koroghlu epic

Hi there. How are you? Sorry to disturb you once again, mate, but I'm here to inform you that the contents of Koroğlu, Gurughlu and Korughlu pages were merged into the "Epic of Koroghlu". I know you have been an active editor of that article down the years, therefore I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that, as you may already know, after this sort of actions, the merged pages need extensive copy-editing, polishing and re-structuring. Moreover, "Epic of Koroghlu" suffers from the lack of references, portions that are undoubtedly an original research and unspecified language problems for a handful of native words. To make a long story short, I invite you and have already invited a couple of other similar editors to go over that article with a fine-tooth comb and fix it all out. Thank you! Waiting for your response and help! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 06:44, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

PS: I have already started re-structuring and copy-editing - 1. It begs more of that and a collective effort.

@Visioncurve: Thanks for your contributions. I tried to merge but was failed then gave up. Beshogur (talk) 07:59, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Magtymguly

Hi there. How are you doing, Beshogur? I believe you are very much aware that one of the articles (Magtymguly) that, in my opinion, is in your sphere of interest is being nominated for GA. The first observations were made and the list of need-to-dos has been provided. I spent quite some time on that page yesterday, trying to quickly rearrange things, and added tons of new information that you might want to check whenever you have spare time. As always, I need your masterly expertise and objective opinion regarding these new additions and perhaps your help to further enhance that page and bring it to the level to get it qualified as a Good Article. Thank you, --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 03:49, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

@Visioncurve: Thanks for asking, how are you? Personally I don't know much about him, I am busy these times, but will try to fix the refs. Hope it becomes a good article. Beshogur (talk) 17:50, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Maybe interested about to check

Some people seems disturbed about the Turkish army has official claim about when it is formed 209 B.C. It is official claim and it is said to it is claim, and I dont see any problem about that or any propaganda, but some people pretty disturbed I dont know why. Seems so eager about remove that things, especially here Turkish Land Forces. Thank you. 178.221.249.61 (talk) 21:31, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

I see that you have reverted all the changes I made. Why is that?

Tzachas

Hello, I see that you have reverted all the changes I made on the 'Tzachas' page. Why is that?

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	For helping "Magtymguly Pyragy" become a good article on 4 May, 2021. --VisioncurveTimendi causa est nescire 05:11, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

@Visioncurve: wow, I am glad it became a good article. BTW I barely helped. :D Beshogur (talk) 13:15, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

WP:TPO

Please take a read of it because your insistence that WP:NOTAFORUM applies is outrageous and silly and doesn't otherwise meet any of the criteria there. Grogudicae👽 17:45, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

@Praxidicae: I've read this already, you should take a read of this. Do not use the talk page as a forum or soapbox for discussing the topic. The talk page is for discussing how to improve the article, not vent your feelings about it. Beshogur (talk) 17:47, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

No one is doing that except for the people being directed to the article to POV push. An article published in a major Turkish media outlet encouraging outside editors to do exactly that is relevant on the talk page. Grogudicae👽 17:48, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Listen to the green alien, in this context it's reasonable to make editors aware of the coverage. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:58, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

dispute resolution in Talk:Ottoman Empire

please participate in the dispute resolution about the 1593 map you deleted from the ottoman empire page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ottoman_Empire#Ottoman_Empire_administrative_divisions_map_%5Bcontent_dispute%5D AbdurRahman Abdulmoneim (talk) 09:34, 5 May 2021 (CLT)

Khazars

In the Khazars article the infobox has Khazar as lingua franca with Golden 2006, p. 91 as the source. Except Golden, page 91, only mentions Oguric Turkic as a lingua franca.

Are Oguric Turkic and Khazar language the same? --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:23, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: normally, it should be Khazar if he didn't mean Bulgaric, because we know (extinct) two of them, while other ones like Hunnish are just assumptions. Not sure if Golden classify Khazar as classification disputed. Beshogur (talk) 15:17, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Which still leaves us with a source that states Oguric was the Khazar state lingua franca. So either I find a source stating Khazar was lingua franca or I have to change it to Oguric? --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:28, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: you can do it. But should we delete Khazar then entirely? Beshogur (talk) 15:30, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

I am not going to delete it, just yet. I will do a search when I get home from work and see what I can find. --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:33, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Khwarazmian dynasty § Splitting proposal

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Khwarazmian dynasty § Splitting proposal. Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 06:39, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

@Visioncurve: thanks. I saw it but have little opinion on it. I think the article is too little to divide. Beshogur (talk) 10:27, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, @Beshogur:. Your opinion is relevant and highly valued. Therefore, I suggest you make your opinion known in the article's talk page! Also, you might want to read comments of other editors, where similar issue has already been raised. Some of us (interested editors) also pledged to exert ourselves to expand both articles afterwards.

• PS: BTW, I would also like to learn your opinion on the "Ottoman Empire" being added to the "Notable Turkoman dynasties and tribal confederations" section of the "Turkoman (ethnonym)" page, which seems to be a little odd. I believe this page holds particular importance for you as well and is within your scope of interests, so on that account, any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 07:08, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

@Visioncurve: honestly I am against making for such copy paste things. Maybe brief summaries. Beshogur (talk) 15:33, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Ottoman emprie

Although the Ottomans are a Turkic empire, the "Ottoman emprie" page in Wikipedia has not even mentioned that the Ottoman is Turkic, and I ask you to edit the "Ottoman empire" article on the wikipedia and write that the Ottoman empire is a Turkic.(Sorry my English is bad) Bshajakaqkkqqjqjanannanamsn (talk) 08:10, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

@Bshajakaqkkqqjqjanannanamsn: it mentions Ottomans were founded by Turkomans. What's the issue? Beshogur (talk) 12:30, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Kitab-i Diyarbakriyya

Hey, Beshogur. I wonder if you could kindly send me all the stuff you have on Kitab-i Diyarbakriyya. I'd really love to acquire more knowledge of this subject and subsequently, help you out with your project you have in mind regarding bringing more of it into Wikipedia. Thank you! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 04:48, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

@Visioncurve: hello, found it here. Beshogur (talk) 07:46, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Altai is not a Kypchak language.

Hello, Altai is not a Kypchak language, it is Siberian and you can confirm this yourself by looking at the Kypchak languages and differentiating between them. Just because Altai is close to Kyrgyz vocabulary wise does not mean it is Kypchak, Kypchak are mostly the languages which were affected by Chagatay which we were not, and either way Altai does not contain any Kypchak features that would say so. We have Siberian features. I'd like to ask you to stop adding the Altai language to the Kypchak language list, thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by BatiYe (talk • contribs) 19:06, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

@BatiYe:, your argument is completely irrelevant in Wikipedia since it is more or less WP:OR. It's true that classification of the Altai language within the Turkic languages has often been disputed, but due to certain similarities with the Kyrgyz language, it has often been grouped with the Kypchak languages. This view is also held by a renowned turkologist and linguist, author of many relevant scholarly works, Mehmet Tekin, who provided a variety of proofs in support of the above-mentioned in his "A New Classification of the Chuvash-Turkic languages" (go thru pages 131 to 139). --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 04:40, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war

Someone has made a list of all visually destroyed, damaged and captured tanks etc for both sides, can you add this under infobox casualties please https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2020/09/the-fight-for-nagorno-karabakh.html

About ethnic admixture of Turkic people.

This is not at all fringe theories....as it is already mentioned in Wikipedia in various other subjects....but Turkic people find it hard to digest such facts especially when Indo-European words comes. Annishiskrishna (talk) 09:51, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

About Turkic

And I don't care. As what I've mentioned is already mentioned in Wikipedia and sometimes in indirect ways probably to avoid remove from Turkic nationalist 😁 Annishiskrishna (talk) 09:54, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

@Annishiskrishna:, I strongly suggest you follow Wikipedia's code of conduct and substantially improve your behavior by being polite, calm and reasonable. Your seemingly uncivil remarks may escalate your discussion into a personal argument that will no longer focus objectively on the problem at hand. I recommend you go through WP:CIVIL, and learn to resolve differences of opinion through civil discussion. --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 04:55, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

I apology for my behaviour Annishiskrishna (talk) 04:57, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 8

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Afshar (tribe), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Haplogroup N.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:56, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

June 2021

Your recent editing history at Kirkuk shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 16:45, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Need help

Hey, Beshogur? How are you? I hope you are doing well these days. Actually, I disturbed you for the reason that I wanted to ask you if you could do me a favor. You see, the thing is that I'm a bit puzzled as to how to upload a video to Wikipedia. No matter what I do, an irritating "error" message pops out. And the crux of the matter is that I hoped to upload a video with a person speaking Azerbaijani Turkic and utilise it in the "Azerbaijani language" page. Likewise with the Turkmen language. Shortly, I wanted to imitate Wikipedia's "Turkish language" page where there is a nice video with a girl seemingly of an Albanian descent speaking Turkish; you may actually watch it here. Shortly, I would like to ask you to give me a hand with uploading videos about Azerbaijani and Turkmen languages (they are readily available in the Wikitongues website and are free to share under CC license) and publishing them in relevant pages? Bunu benim için yaparsanız, size çok minnettar kalıcam. --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 14:12, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

@Visioncurve: Hello I'm fine you? I never uploaded such a video (never uploaded one) so perhaps you may try contacting "hello@wikitongues.org" (found from their youtube account) Also the video is probably a Kosovar Turk. Also didn't understand what I could do for you. Thanks. Beshogur (talk) 14:22, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

@Beshogur: Never mind, I just wanted to further improve the pages related to the Oghuz Turkic family group. I really did find the video in the Turkish language article helpful and thought it would be nice to have a similar one for the Azerbaijani and Turkmen languages pages. The problem is, for some unknown reasons, I am unable to upload videos to Wikipedia and I just thought you would be interested to help. Thank you though! Take care! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 05:11, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@Visioncurve: I mean is it even allowed to upload random videos? As I said maybe you should try contact wikitongues first, maybe they could help. Take care. Beshogur (talk) 10:22, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Why the change?

Why did you revert the change I made? Timur didn't have a house, he had a dynasty, as it said. Why change back to his house. It's not the European houses like Habsburg, Bourbon, etc, etc.

Şehzade_Murad_(son_of_Cem_Sultan)

Hi there, Not to cause any drama or problem, my update on [Şehzade_Murad_(son_of_Cem_Sultan)] is clearly acknowledged in John Freely (2004). Jim Sultan: the Adventures of a captive Turkish Prince in Renaissance Europe. If you would like scan copies from the book, I am more then happy to send them via email. Comte_de_Sayn(talk) 12:18, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

June 2021

Your edit to Kara-Khanid Khanate has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. — Diannaa (talk) 19:28, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Siraj al-Din Urmavi

Could you perhaps tell me whether the first part of the "SİRACEDDİN ei-URMEVI" entry of the TDV actually supports a Kurdish origin (or any other origin)?[4] Would appreciate it. Thanks, - LouisAragon (talk) 20:45, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: he is citing someone called "Abdülhamîd Ali Ebû Züney" (probably a Saudi historian, TR spelling makes hard to find anything in English), in his preface of his book: that the author who is known to have Kurdish origins (Urmavi), might be of an Arab tribe who moved from Yemen to Azerbaijan. The text sounds vague, doesn't exactly states he's of Kurdish origin. Beshogur (talk) 21:48, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! Will remove that part from the article then per WP:DUE and WP:VER. LouisAragon (talk) 22:51, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

About Treaty of Sèvres

Hello. Can I ask you to help with something? There is an English-Turkish treaty in history called the Treaty of Sèvres (1920). The Wikipedia map of this treaty is not correct. They map out the Sykes-Picot agreement of 1916. I put it right but it was taken back. I put the proofs of the treaty, I put the sources. Can you please have a look? http://sam.baskent.edu.tr/belge/Sevres_ENG.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20140531175547/http://treaties.fco.gov.uk/docs/pdf/1920/TS0011.pdf

However, this agreement never entered into force. Because a revolution took place in Russia. The Bolsheviks came to power and the treaty was annulled. It was also decided that Turkey would remain independent according to Wilson's principles. In 1918, Britain promised that the Muslims in India would not harm Turkey and the caliphate, and thus received 1 million 160 thousand soldiers. Istanbul and Anatolia were given to the Turks. Only Armenia, Kurdistan and Izmir were mentioned in the agreement. A sphere of influence for Italy and France does not exist in the treaty. This map is completely fake. The first person who prepared the map prepared it wrong. Then everyone copied from him.

https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevr_Antla%C5%9Fmas%C4%B1#/media/Dosya:WholeRegionSevres.gif This is the real map. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres_1920_-_English.png This is the colorized version.

There are other sources as well. The Truth About The Peace Treaties Vol-2(1938) page 1339-1340.

Cabinet Papers, Cab 24 / 95, ANGLO-FRENCH CONFERENCE ON THE TURKISH SETTLEMENT, Appendix to Minutes of First Meeting, First part of M. Berthelot's note of the 12th December with comments of Political Section of British Peace Delegation, p. 4

Cabinet Papers, Cab 24 / 95, Fourth Meeting: Turkish Settlement, p. 31

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/10/sykes-picot-treaty-of-sevres-modern-turkey-middle-east-borders-turkey/ https://www.juancole.com/2010/12/turkey-1920.html https://mesopotamianmarine.wordpress.com/2012/12/07/a-semester-in-review-the-microcosm-of-iraqi-kurdistan/

This is the Sykes-Picot map. But according to this treaty, Armenia and Istanbul must be given to Russia. This treaty never happened. It was just a project. The Wilson principles of January 8, 1918 prevented this. https://russiancouncil.ru/en/analytics-and-comments/analytics/nuzhno-li-prisoedinyat-rossiyu-k-soglasheniyu-sayksa-piko/

All edits I've made have been reverted, even though I've cited their sources. It was claimed that I did not cite sufficient resources. So, I said, read the text of the treaty yourself. They didn't have time to read the treaty. I should have cited more sources. Isn't the real source the treaty itself? Could there be a higher, more accurate source than this?

Also, this is the map shown in Greek history. Here, Italy and France's sphere of influence is not left to them in the treaty. It shows the military units that were there at that time.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Treaty_sevres_otoman_el.jpg

https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Συνθήκη_των_Σεβρών_(Ελλάς_-_Τουρκία) I wish you good work.Luisao Araujo (talk) 11:51, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

I guess that there is not a a single person even read the treaty.Luisao Araujo (talk) 12:00, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

@Luisao Araujo: Hello, please don't remove the original picture. That's my concern. Beshogur (talk) 12:03, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres#/media/File:WholeRegionSevres.gif This is the original map. Not others.Luisao Araujo (talk) 12:07, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

@Luisao Araujo: as you can see the map is not depicting the zone of influences. Beshogur (talk) 12:30, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Read the agreement and show in which article the zone of influence is written.Luisao Araujo (talk) 12:34, 27 June 2021 (UTC) You claimed that Italy and France were given zone of influences. I'm still waiting for you to prove it to me.Luisao Araujo (talk) 15:59, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm still waiting for your answer. Why are you silent.

Want to look at other maps?

https://www.info-grece.com/encyclopedia/traite-de-sevres-1920

https://www.lhistoire.fr/carte/kurdes-et-arméniens-du-traité-de-sèvre-1920-au-traité-de-lausanne-1923

http://aujourdhuilaturquie.com/fr/le-proche-orient-du-traite-de-sevres-a-nos-jours/

http://www.monbalagan.com/36-chronologie-israel/186-1920-10-aout-traite-de-sevres-non-ratifie-et-remplace-par-le-traite-de-lausanne-signe-en-1923.html

https://www.memoiresdeguerre.com/article-traite-de-lausanne-1923-107400884.html

https://www.revueconflits.com/turquie-traite-sevres-armenie-histoire-lausanne/

https://mindthemap.fr/empire-ottoman-traite-de-lausanne-1923/

https://campusnumeriquearmenien.org/ressources/details/1400

https://www.lajauneetlarouge.com/le-traite-de-versailles-et-les-autres-traites-des-banlieues-nous-concernent-ils-encore-aujourdhui/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/10/sykes-picot-treaty-of-sevres-modern-turkey-middle-east-borders-turkey/

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Ottoman-Empire-according-to-the-Treaty-of-Sevres-Carnegie-Endowment-for_fig2_326545949

Luisao Araujo (talk) 07:26, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

@Luisao Araujo: too much stuff, and it's exact not clear which part to read. Beshogur (talk) 09:59, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

You only need to look at one document. Or you can read the treaty yourself instead.

Or try to show where the zone of influence given to Italy is written. This is very clear and very simple.Luisao Araujo (talk) 10:19, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Kyrgyz people

Hi, the sources are listed under further reading,

Mitchell, Laurence. (2008) Kyrgyzstan: The Bradt Travel Guide. The Globe Pequot Press. 2nd edition (2012). ISBN 1-84162-221-4.

West, Barbara A. Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Asia and Oceania, New York, 2009, ISBN 0-8160-7109-8.

Abstrakt (talk) 05:39, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

@Abstrakt: could you provide the quotes? Beshogur (talk) 10:29, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

---

Mitchell, Laurence. (2008) Kyrgyzstan: The Bradt Travel Guide. The Globe Pequot Press. 2nd edition (2012). ISBN 1-84162-221-4.

From page 25

"Buddhist practices have little bearing on contemporary Kyrgyzstan but there are small numbers of Kyrgyz in China and the Central Tien Shan region that continue to observe a form of Tibetan Buddhism rather than Islam."

---

West, Barbara A. Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Asia and Oceania, New York, 2009, ISBN 0-8160-7109-8.

From page 441

"While the majority of Kyrgyz residing in contemporary Kyrgyzstan practice Sunni Islam or this syncretic blend of Islam and pre-Islamic shamanism, animism and ancestor worship, some Chinese Kyrgyz practice a form of Tibetan Lamaist Buddhism, which they adopted after their migration to China in the early 20th century."

Abstrakt (talk) 04:22, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Seljuks

Hi there, Beshogur. How are you? I dared to think that my latest additions to the "Seljuk empire" page, especially those new "Culture and language" and "Military" sections would draw your interest. I pin my hopes on the belief that you will go through them as soon as possible. Any feedback will be appreciated. Take care! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 14:12, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

@Visioncurve: great additions, very helpful. Thanks. Beshogur (talk) 15:52, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Inscription of Tatarskoe Shapkino

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Inscription of Tatarskoe Shapkino requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be an unambiguous copyright infringement. This page appears to be a direct copy from https://www.eurasiatica.blog/volga-bulgarian-inscription-tatar-shapkino.html. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images taken from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites or other printed material as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If the external website or image belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text or image — which means allowing other people to use it for any reason — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. The same holds if you are not the owner but have their permission. If you are not the owner and do not have permission, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for how you may obtain it. You might want to look at Wikipedia's copyright policy for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 17:26, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Göktürklerin Genetiği

Göktürklerin genetiği hakkında çoğu zaman hata yaptığını düşünüyorum. Bu konuda istersen sana yardımcı olabilirim. Bu arada bir neden koyup öyle sayfayı düzenlemeye dikkat etmelisin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tutsens Woman (talk • contribs) 13:13, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Turkish Cypriot Genetics

Can you please explain why you deleted my fully sourced (3 high tier sources) text about genetics ? Historyandsciencelearn (talk) 21:43, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Well I think you have no clue about WP:RS and WP:OR. Eupedia and "Cyprus-mail" isn't "high tier" and your third source doesn't even work, plus is vague. Beshogur (talk) 10:17, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

PLOS and Eupedia are not "high tier" ? Whatever... I will add a 4th source. Historyandsciencelearn (talk) 10:57, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Barsils in Chinese sources?

Greetings, Beshogur. I think I must rely on your Turkish proficiency again. When I used Google Translate on this article, I gather that Hayrettin İhsan Erkoç argued that several Chinese sources transcribed the Turkic ethnonym Barsil into Chinese as 卑失 Beishi or 畢失 Bishi. Whenever you have time, would you please contribute use information from Erkoç's article to the article Barsils? The relevant pages are 96, 100, 107-109. My thanks in advance. Erminwin (talk) 04:52, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Erminwin: hello, I don't have much time these times. Plus it looks too complicated for me with the Chinese stuff. Can't help, sorry. Beshogur (talk) 19:59, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, anyways! Erminwin (talk) 22:49, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Hamid II

Hi, I understand your reason for the revert to my edit on Abdul Hamid II. The reason I added the "This article is about..." is because when I searched for "Hamid II" I was redirected to the Ottoman sultan. The subject of the article I was looking for, Syarif Hamid II of Pontianak, or Sultan Hamid II as he is usually known, was a significant person in Indonesian history, although clearly not as significant as Abdul Hamid II in Ottoman and Turkish history. I thought that just adding the "This article is about..." was the best solution - it's only one line, and is better than "Hamid II" going to a disambig page. I won't revert, but do you think it's worth a thought? Regards and stay well. Davidelit (Talk) 14:51, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Davidelit: I changed that page to a disambiguation page, what do you think now? Beshogur (talk) 15:58, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

That's a good solution. Thanks. Davidelit (Talk) 16:05, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

New article

Hope all is well with you. Started Mimar Sinan Mosque, if you have any brilliant Turkish sources, feel free to improve. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:29, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Welcome back

Hi, friend! Long time no see. How have you been? Happy to see you back, really. Just wanted to let you know. Take care! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 06:37, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

@Visioncurve: hello friend. I was abroad, and took some vacation. I'm fine, how are you? Beshogur (talk) 06:48, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Lead in Turkish people

Hi Beshogur, I hope this message finds you well. The term "Anatolian Turks" is not used to refer to all Turkish people; it is not used to for Turkish Cypriots, Turkish Bulgarians, Syrian Turkmen etc. The lead I wrote is an attempt to represent all ethnic Turkish groups not just the Turks living in Turkey. Can you detail exactly what your objection is so we can write a better and more inclusive introduction (one that is representative of Balkan Turks, Turkish Cypriots, Turkish Meskhetians, and the Turkmoan communities in the Levant). Thanks in advance, Sseevv (talk) 10:47, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

@Sseevv:, Anatolian Turks are the core of the Turkish people. I don't think you should use bold for Cypriot Turks, etc. on the article. Balkan Turks, by origin are Anatolian Turks as well, thus I think perhaps move your text to Etymology and definition section? Using bold for other topics are not allowed on wikipedia. Or maybe try it on the lead without using bold. Beshogur (talk) 10:51, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, they are Anatolian by origin (I do not deny this at all) but they are not called Anatolian Turks in their respective countries (i.e. they are called "Turkish", "Turks", "X Turks", or "Turkish X"). Also, the version you reverted to talks about the Turkic peoples in three sentences which is unnecessary. Please give me a few moments to write it up again, taking your comments on board and then let me know what you think. I think it is crucial that the terms "Balkan Turks", "Turkomans" etc. are in the lead to create clarity and understanding that these all identify as the same ethnic group. If we talk about just Anatolian Turks it excludes them completely. Sseevv (talk) 11:08, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi again, I have rewritten a lead to be more inclusive. Can you take a look and get back to me? Thanks, Sseevv (talk) 11:39, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Looks better, but I think "Mainland Turks" and other TC pov are not important in wiki. Beshogur (talk) 11:57, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Beshogur. Can you clarify, by "TC" do you mean Turkish Cypriots? Is this in regard to the term "Mainland Turks"? Currently in Cyprus there truly is a distinction between Anatolian Turks and "natives". This was even true for Turkish Bulgarians in Turkey during the 80s when they were called "Bulgarlar" (or even today for Syrian Turkmen in Turkey who are just group as Suriyeliler). In short, the term "Anatolian Turks" isn't used or identified by all the Turkish communities so we must be inclusive and sensitive to this fact. The "Mainland Turks" is very common expression throughout the former Ottoman territories. Sseevv (talk) 12:04, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for the long messages! I just wanted to also point out, even in Western parts of Turkey (e.g Edirne, Izmir etc.) many don't call themselves "Anatolian Turks" (unless they are recent migrants from the central and eastern parts of the country). Sseevv (talk) 12:10, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

No problem. My views are not much important, you could ask others on the talk page maybe? Beshogur (talk) 12:15, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Your revert in Turkey & Turkification

Hello @Beshogur: I noticed you reverted my addition to Turkey under Military section regarding the United States State Department putting Turkey on the list of countries that use child soldiers. I found this to be relevant to the page, but you reverted and wrote to "take your concerns to the talk page", well actually I had already did, I guess you did not check after reverting, but you have not responded yourself so maybe it is worth addressing your concerns there to why you think it should not be included?

Secondly in Turkification, within the talk page I created a new section (without editing the article at all) with suggesting to change the structure of the page so as to properly be able to include the Turkification content in regards to what Turkey is doing in Afrin and also other parts of Rojava that they invaded. You removed my talk page content and your description simply was "stop propaganda on the talk pages". You did this twice after I reverted the change. Granted I am no expert, but your Wikipedia etiquette seems to be lacking. You could have at least responded or came to my talk page to discuss.

TataofTata (talk) 15:51, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Suleiman the magnificent

AasSalam Alaiqum brother. May I ask you what is your problem with separate sub list for sons and daughters of Sueliman? Plenty of Royalty infoboxes uses it. Hopefully we can come to an understanding Ishan87 (talk) 06:43, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@Ishan87: alaikum salam. Because it is wrong. see Template:Infobox royalty . Beshogur (talk) 09:44, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

It's not wrong brother. Read the Template box again. Many page's royality box uses subcategories. Anyway, why are u putting "Valide" in Mihrimah Sultan's name? It is completely false. Ishan87 (talk) 10:08, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Revert of my edits

Please don't revert edits without an explanation. All I did was add Bazarak as we facto capital of Islamic Republic of Afghanistan while Kabul was added as de jure capital, and I explained this was due to Kabul being lost. And I added Amarullah Saleh who has now heads the government as acting President. Pretty self-explanatory. So what was the reason for revert when all my edits were correct and unproblematic? LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 15:50, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

I knoe right? He removed my edit on the Mamluk Sultanate without any explanation. Capurta (talk) 02:38, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

know* 🤦 Capurta (talk) 02:39, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Islamic Republic of Afghanistan

Hello, as discussed on the talk page, despite losing the vast majority of its territory the Islamic Republic government still exists and has not surrendered nor dissolved. We've been working on making the lede reflect that, and I worked very hard on the wording as it is now. If you feel it is inadequate, please discuss at the talk page there instead of just reflexively reverting the edit. Thank you! Not logged in 2 (talk) 15:06, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Can you look at it now? Is it okay? Not logged in 2 (talk) 15:06, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

NKR/Artsakh map on Madagiz and Talish

Regarding your recent reverts of my readding the NKR/Artsakh location map to Madagiz and Talish - the location map is useful and relevant to all Nagorno-Karabakh settlement articles first of all on a practical level since it offers a zoomed in view of the region and contains the border of the former NKAO - the settlements were part of the NKAO and were, until the 2020 war, controlled by Artsakh, and are present on the rest of the Nagorno-Karabakh articles. Regarding Artsakh claims - they are a bit dubious from what I've gathered, but from what I've understood they've extended to at least the former NKAO before the 2020 war and since. AntonSamuel (talk) 09:50, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your special contributions on Turkic history and politics

		The Barnstar of National Merit
		We, basic wikipedians have lots of things to learn from you. Special thanks for voluntarily serving on Turkic history and politics.
		this WikiAward was given to Beshogur by BerkBerk68 (talk) on 18:59, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

BerkBerk68 (talk) 18:59, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

AIV

Heya, just a quick note to let you know your recent contribution to WP:AIV was redacted and suppressed; the content you copied over from edit summary of the user you were reporting contained some pretty defamatory statements, which per OSPOL #2 should be quietly reported and hidden. In the future, you are of course welcome to report users like this, but "posting defamatory statements" is sufficient. Cheers, Primefac (talk) 21:24, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

@Primefac: hopefully I didn't get some sanction, right? Beshogur (talk) 23:27, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Nope, just letting you know in case you didn't. Primefac (talk) 00:03, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Beshogur. You have new messages at Talk:List of Turkic monarchs.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Ertugrul religion why do u keep taking off the [[]]

? CrypticVgamer (talk) 22:16, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Stop asking and read Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Linking#What_generally_should_not_be_linked. Beshogur (talk) 12:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Al-Bulgariy

It has Arabic influence, Arabs call their language as Al-Arabiyyah or Arabiy. İn this logic they can also use it as language because it has donated with Arabic suffix which make a thing nation and language. That's why there is such a suffix in Arabic language, that's how it works. Bulgariy is a language as well. That's pretty clear. BurakD53 (talk) 22:15, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Can you put the quote so I can verify? Even if true, that's not a native name. Beshogur (talk) 07:49, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Since the Volga Bulgars use this name when talking about themselves, this can be considered the original name for the Volga Bulgars. But I understand your thinking, usually half of the Volga Bulgar inscriptions are written in Arabic and al-bulghaariy was used in these inscriptions. But if we remove the Arabic suffixes, will بلغَاڔ (b.lghaar) have a native name? Of course I'm asking for ethnicity, not for language. BurakD53 (talk) 13:16, 2 October 2021 (UTC+3)

My concern is the original research here. So I can not recommend it either. Can you put the quote? Beshogur (talk) 10:19, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

It takes time if I wrote it. See source, page 109, 118 and 121. These inscriptions were written in Arabic. You have to log in to open. BurakD53 (talk) 13:26, 2 October 2021 (UTC+3)

Al is not a Turkic prefix, nor -iy is a Turkic suffix. So proposing that isn't logical. Beshogur (talk) 12:13, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Azerbaijani language

• Azerbaijani language (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Hello Beshogur. The complaint that you filed at AN3 has been closed by another admin as No violation, on the grounds that the reverts were not within 24 hours, and that neither of you has tried using WP:DR. Even so, I don't think that the slow war will be allowed to continue. The other party is new and they may not be familiar with Wikipedia's sourcing standards. This is a good time for you to respond at Talk:Azerbaijani language and explain why the evidence supplied thus far is not adequate. If either of you reverts again without getting a prior consensus in your favor on the talk page, admins may feel compelled to take action. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 15:34, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Red link of Western Hunnic Empire

I saw there is a red link for the Western Hunnic Empire at the 16 Great Turkic Empires. Remembering your interest in the Turkic steles, I thought you might be able to turn that one blue. Best, Paradise Chronicle (talk) 19:48, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

@Paradise Chronicle: Thanks for your post. But actually it's impossible. Western Hunnic Empire is pretty much fictional. Actually, "the south" refers to the northern Xiongnu. Even Nihal Atsiz calling those "nonsense" and "tales". I think we should simply link to Xiongnu or leave it black. Beshogur (talk) 21:16, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the quick response and the fix. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 22:10, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

My idea on the "Ottoman Empire" page

You still didn't provide a reason why I should not put flags on the successor states? I think it's a good idea because that could improve this page! WikiManUser21 (talk) 08:12, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

What is your problem?

I moved 'Safe Zone (Syria)' to 'Safe & No-fly zones in Syria' the obvious purpose is to expand the article and properly explain all the safe and no-fly zones within Syria regarding the Syrian civil war. Very obvious and did it really need requesting or explaining? You've provided no effort to contact me, no effort to provide some kind of reasoning why you're against it. By making me start an unnecessary request you are wasting peoples times and energy. This isn't the first time you are disrupting. If you carry on with this kind of attitude I will be forced to seek admin help for your behaviour. --TataofTata (talk) 11:30, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

@TataofTata: Very obvious and did it really need requesting or explaining? Yes, it does. You don't change a typo or something but adding whole new title. By making me start an unnecessary request you are wasting peoples times and energy. I doubt this wastes "people's energy". This isn't the first time you are disrupting. The page was in my watchlist since years, I would like to hear others' opinions about the title change. Because it is not much edited, doesn't give you the right to make such moves. Beshogur (talk) 12:01, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

I did not add nor is it a "whole new title". 1)Syria in brackets obviously signifies Safe Zone in Syria, 2)Topics regarding safe zones and no-fly-zones were already part of the scope of the article. You are really just creating unnecessarily an issue. You have been watching this article for "years" and have zero contribution except for this POV rewording, the article barely had content and so you think that means it "doesn't" give me "the right to make such moves"? --TataofTata (talk) 15:01, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

What do you mean with quotation marks? I have 1100 pages in my watchlist. Also that edit was before the reached consensus which I respect. Beshogur (talk) 18:35, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Iraqi Turkmen (language)

Would you be so kind as to explain to me why you deleted by contribution to the Iraqi Turkmen page regarding the classification of their spoken language? In addition to the extensive academic sources cited by the editor "John Francis Templeson" on the talk page [5], I'd invite you to read in full the entry on "Iraqi Turkic" found in Lars Johanson's Discoveries on the Turkic Linguistic Map, published by the Swedish Research Institute in Istanbul, 2001. (p. 15-16)

"Iraqi Turkic

The Iraqi Turkic varieties of the "Turkmen belt occupy an interesting intermediary position. They have a complex background and present a rather heterogeneous picture, displaying connections in various directions. The region has an ever-changing history of settlement with Turkic groups moving into the region in various waves from the early Muslim period on. It still has a high proportion of bi- or trilinguals with Arabic and Kurdish in various constellations. It has belonged to different zones of influence, reigned by Omayyads, Abbasids, Saljuks, Mongols, Elkhans, Jalayirids, Aqqoyunlï, Qaraqoyunlï, Safavids and Ottomans. It has experienced repeated changes of prestige languages, particularly Arabic, Persian, and Ottoman. The modern Turkish influence was strong until Arabic became the new offõcial language in the 1930s. A certain diglossia Turkish vs. Iraqi Turkic is still observable.

In a recent study (2000 a), Christiane Bulut discusses the classifõcation of the Iraqi Turkic varieties, comparing them to Anatolian and Irano-Turkic dialects of the Azerbaijanian and Afshar types. She concludes that the dialects originally display numerous features of the Afshar or Southern Oghuz group but also exhibit similarities with certain southeastern Anatolian dialects as those of Urfa and Diyarbekir. Turkish as prestige language has exerted profound influence on Iraqi Turkic. Thus, the syntax differs sharply from neighboring Irano-Turkic varieties."

You can download the publication here: http://www.turkiclanguages.com/www/Johanson_Discoveries-1.pdf

EnlightenmentNow1792 (talk) 18:21, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Incorrect map year

Hello. Regarding this unexplained revert, the map is clearly not from 2005 as it shows the USSR. The map name has an incorrect date (and I have requested it be renamed to avoid the misleading name). Please could you remove the incorrect year claim. Thanks, Number 57 00:17, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

@Number 57: perhaps it became public in 2005. We could say "published in 2005". Beshogur (talk) 13:35, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

I suspect it was simply added to the Library of Congress collection in 2005. I think any mention of 2005 is misleading, as the map is at least 15 years older. Cheers, Number 57 14:09, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Please stop

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Mount Elbrus. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. - DVdm (talk) 14:13, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• DVdm, this was about reverting the edits by this IP? You jumped in yourself to revert them, establishing clearly that those edits were disruptive/against consensus. Maybe you placed this warning here for the principle of it, but it strikes me as a bit overly formal, esp. with an experienced editor. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:47, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
  • @Drmies: It's fine, I didn't feel offended. Beshogur (talk) 15:50, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
    • OK. Hey, on Constantinople, that new account smells like a sock but I cannot find anything in the history that suggests it's a returning editor. If you have any ideas, let me know. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 15:51, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
      • @Drmies: I don't know. I'm not familiar to previous editors on Roman Empire related pages. Beshogur (talk) 15:54, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
        • You have an impressive set of language skills; I'd not seen written Old Turkic until I saw your user page. I wish I had paid closer attention to my Turkish-speaking neighbors when I still lived in the Indische Buurt; I could have learned a thing or two. I'm in season 4 of Ertugrul and still haven't picked up the language, expect for a few basic words. Drmies (talk) 15:57, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

• @Drmies: I had jumped in to revert to preserve the original content, as it was created on 25 August and anonymously removed more than 2 months later without explanation on 14 November. Based on Talk:Mount_Elbrus#Removed_content, I decided to leave a formal warning here, even for an experienced user. - DVdm (talk) 16:17, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

ArbCom 2021 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2021 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 6 December 2021. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2021 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Maybe of your interest

diff, I'll adapt the English language a bit. But the Turkic language, I leave to you. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 19:57, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Ghaznavi empire never conquered Kasmir

I want to clear that Kashmir was not under the Ghaznavid rule. Kashmir was ruled by the Lohara dynasty, a Hindu dynasty, from 1003 to 1320 CE. The Lohara dynasty were Hindu rulers of Kashmir from Khasa tribe, in the northern part of the Indian subcontinent. Their capital was Srinagar. This dynasty was preceded by Utpala dynasty. Utpala dynasty was a Hindu dynasty which ruled over the Kashmir region from 8th to 10th century CE. The Utpala kingdom was established by Avanti Varman, ending the rule of Karkota dynasty in 855 CE.The cities of Avantipur and Suyapur were founded during the reign and many Hindu temples dedicated to both Vishnu and Shiva and Buddhist monasteries were built, notable of which is the Avantiswara and Avantiswami temples.

Raja Sangramraja , who ruled from 1003 to 1028 CE, and founded the Lohara dynasty repulsed several attacks of Mahmud of Ghazni. Mahmud could never defeat Kashmiri Kings! Besides, Raja Sangramraja also helped Trilochanpala, the Hindushahi ruler of Lahore, with an army against Mahmud of Ghazni. The combined army defeated Sultan Mahmud. It was only in 1021 when Mahmud defeated and killed Shahi Trilochana Pala and his son Bhima Pala, thereby conquering Rahib and Lahore.

Trilochanpala, was son of Anandpal and grandson of Jayapala. Maharaja Jayapala kingdom stretched from Laghman to Kashmir and Sirhind to Multan, with Peshawar being in the center.He was the son of Maharaja Hutpal and the father of Maharaja Anandapala. Maharaja Jayapala, was the ruler of the Hindu Shahi dynasty from 964 to 1001 CE.

Maharaja Jayapala is known for his struggles in defending his kingdom against the Ghaznavids in the modern-day eastern Afghanistan and Pakistan region.Maharaja Jayapala saw a danger in the consolidation of the Ghaznavids and invaded their capital city of Ghazni both in the reign of Sebuktigin and in that of his son Mahmud, which initiated the Muslim Ghaznavid and Hindu Shahi struggles. Maharaja Jayapala, however, lost control of the entire region between the Kabul Valley and Indus River. Sultan Mahmud died in 1030 CE. Sadruddin Shah, also known as Rinchan ( 陈林 ) was the first Muslim ruler of Kashmir.He ruled Kashmir from 1320 to 1323 and was instrumental in establishing Islam in Kashmir. Rinchan, whose full name was Lhachan Gualbu Rinchana, was a Buddhist Prince from Ladakh, and the son of the Ladakh chief, Lhachan Ngos-gruba, who ruled Ladakh from 1290 to 1320. Rinchan wanted to convert to Hinduism but the Hindu religious leaders of the time refused to admit into their fold. Rinchan embraced Islam and took Muslim name of Sultan Sadruddin.

Sultan Sadruddin was succeeded by the Shah Mir dynasty. The Shah Mir Dynasty was a Muslim dynasty,during the rule of this dynasty from 1339 to 1561, Islam was firmly established in Kashmir.

Thus, you can your self understand Kashmir came under Islamic rule in real sense from 1339. 2405:201:A400:7175:1D6:5A6:CA00:14C6 (talk) 16:22, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Babur

Regarding this edit, please let @ThatDohDude: know. GiantSnowman 11:20, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

What do you mean? Beshogur (talk) 11:45, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: I think he reverted your edit because he meant that the Persian name should not be kept in bold, if you check my edit you would have noticed it was set to "nobold". Also Babur's name is supposed to be in the Nastaliq font interface. ThatDohDude (talk) 05:02, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

@ThatDohDude: with all respect, still your edit is not correct. See infobox template. Only English name is allowed. Persian name below in the infobox. Beshogur (talk) 14:28, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

@ThatDohDude: - Beshogur agrees with me that your edit is not correct. GiantSnowman 18:17, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Basarab: be careful not to be too selective with your sources

The preponderance of scholarly opinion is that at least the name Basarab is of Cuman or Pecheneg origin, and Basarab's father or grandfather may have even been Cuman or Pecheneg himself. However, there is no consensus. So you're going way beyond your remit in stating in the very first sentence of the article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Basarab that "The Basarabs were a family of Cuman origin" citing only one source: Vásáry, István (2009). Cumans and Tatars: Oriental Military in the Pre-Ottoman Balkans, 1185–1365 (1st ed.). Cambridge University Press. It looks a great source to me, but on p. 153, it clearly says:

"Be that as it may, Basarab obviously bore a name of Turkic origin, and possibly so also did his father. Though it cannot be definitely proved, they were probably of Cuman extraction. But Basarab himself is expressly stated to be a Vlakh; King Charles I speaks of him as Bazarab infidelis Olacus noster." So King Charles I (of Hungary) identifies Basarab I as a Wlach.

Also, the specific text you quote, I don't think actually comes from the text of the book, but from a blurb? Is it from this URL? http://assets.cambridge.org/052183/7561/frontmatter/0521837561_frontmatter.htm I think so, in which case, it should definitely not be quoted in the voice of István Vásáry himself. EnlightenmentNow1792 (talk) 12:57, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Also, in your edit summary, you put the sarcastic "nice removal of RS". First, the other editor didn't remove an RS, it's already there, and has been for years. Second, s/he opened a discussion on the Talk page, said as much in his/her own edit summary, which you simply ignored and reverted anyway. If a discussion is ongoing in the article's Talk page, you must engage before reverting. As it turns out, it seems quite obvious to me that the IP editor was correct in this case, and you were much too hasty with your initial edit - not to mention your subsequent revert. EnlightenmentNow1792 (talk) 13:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

@EnlightenmentNow1792: WP:HOUNDING will you stop watching my contribution page? This is the second time. Beshogur (talk) 13:51, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

@Beshogur: - until you begin to engage with other editors on the respective article's Talk page, how else am I supposed to contact you but to use your own Talk page? Again, as with the Iraqi Turkmen page, you've ignored all the sources that were already there (the one you think you added, was also already there) and just steamrolled through with your own very, very slanted interpretation of the source (in my opinion of course). If you just bothered to read the sources first, then the talk page, you wouldn't be constantly getting yourself in these edit wars. EnlightenmentNow1792 (talk) 14:56, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

very slanted interpretation of the source You're right. However, you ignore the following sentence as well. I added "presumably" after that, I hope that helps. Removing it completely and adding Vlach doesn't help. Thanks. Beshogur (talk) 15:01, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Want to take this over to the article's talk page? EnlightenmentNow1792 (talk) 15:14, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Turco-Persian tradition

Hey, when people refer to Turco-Persian tradition, they aren't referring to correspondence between speakers of Anatolian Turkish and Persian, but instead the correspondence between Turkic peoples and Persian culture. Therefore, putting an Anatolian Turkish transliteration on the page makes no sense as Anatolian Turkish refers to modern standard form of Ottoman Turkish that's exclusively official in Turkey and Cyprus. It's excluding any other Turkic languages and is extremely inaccurate. ThatDohDude (talk) 20:16, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Independence referendum

Hello. Just an FYI, the Yugoslavian independence referendums have been marked as 'Yes' in the Recognition column since 2014. I was reverting a change by an IP. Cheers, Number 57 23:38, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Map

Your map about Afghanistan demographic is wrong balkh has tajik majority while kunduz has pashtuns your map does not have any sources Hisksjueeu (talk) 09:14, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Iraqi Turkmen

Hi Beshogur, I reverted the disruptive editing back to the original article. I'm obviously very open to discussing improvements that may be needed, but it does seem to be the typical strategy of users removing anything to do with the Iraqi Turkmen-Turkish connection. I'm not very active at the moment but will try to keep an eye out for any discussion what may arise. Hope you can contribute too. Cheers, Sseevv (talk) 12:53, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Armenia-Azerbaijan DS alert

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in Armenia, Azerbaijan, or related conflicts. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

--Armatura (talk) 00:36, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Joyous Season

I wish that you may have a very Happy Holiday! Whether you celebrate Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Hogmanay, Festivus or your hemisphere's Solstice, this is a special time of year for almost everyone! May the New Year provide you joy and fulfillment! Thanks for everything you do here. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:Coffee/Holidays}} to your fellow editors' talk pages.

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: Thanks! Wishing you the same. Beshogur (talk) 17:53, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Proposed State Mergers

Hi i would like to know why did you revert my edits in this page of propose state mergers is it that i had done something or is the facts wrong. Thank You — Preceding unsigned comment added by Francabicon (talk • contribs) 17:39, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

	Season's Greetings
	Hi Beshogur! Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season, and a beautiful and productive New Year! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 13:12, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Ahmad Jalayir

Do you know of any sources stating which language(s) Ahmad Jalayir wrote poetry? There are currently non-English sources stating he wrote poetry in Azerbaijani. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:53, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: I checked İslam Ansiklopedisi, it says the same.

quick google translate:

The sultan, who was interested in poetry, wrote poems in Turkish, Arabic and Persian. A Turkish gazel was published by Fuat Köprülü (“An Azeri Poet in the 16th Century”, HM, p. 82). The Persian divan, on the other hand, is well-known (in addition to foreign countries, there are the following copies of this divan in Istanbul:

Fuat Köprülü is reliable imo. Beshogur (talk) 09:25, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

• "Fuat Köprülü is reliable imo."

And my opinion as well. I just needed a reliable person to check and verify what the sources state. Thank you very much! --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:31, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Sorry to keep bothering you, but can you verify this? --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:53, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Good evening, can you stop editing out the things I add with sources

On the Gagauz page I added other dna studies on them with scientific terms and correct sources, please do not remove them — Preceding unsigned comment added by Safinazuyuyor (talk • contribs) 09:29, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Wo Kya Hai?

Hi, Beshogur! I appreciate your edits at Wikipedia. Can you help me in expanding the draft a little bit. Its something very interesting. But no more sources are available. However, we can expand a little bit with episodes as I think. Keep up your good work. Thank you. IAmAtHome (talk) 12:33, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! But I don't know how I can help. Hearing this for the first time. Good luck anyways. @IAmAtHome:. Beshogur (talk) 12:54, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Possible sock?

Hello, I came across this user Muhammet211 editing on Muslim minority of Greece. I noticed you had mentioned on a draft that they may be a person using different IP's to abuse pages. The contributions seem unconstructive and POV-pushy to me, and the sources being used are either other Wikipedia articles or other questionable references. Could you help me verify the content as you seem to have more knowledge on the subject than me? Thanks. --TylerBurden (talk) 23:52, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

@TylerBurden: hello, adding that page to watchlist. I don't know really if he's affiliated with the other IPs, but there were definitely many IPs trying to give Turkish minority of Thrace a look that they're Muslim Greeks, which is not true. But I also didn't see any other acc than this. Beshogur (talk) 00:11, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

I appreciate that, sounds very similar to the narrative they are attempting to push on said page. --TylerBurden (talk) 00:24, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

I will cede that my sources were unreliable, however your accusation of me being a "sock" is completely unfair and rather presumptuous. There was alot in that article that was unmentioned and purposefully or un purposefully removed-The current edit of the article does not properly represent the minority. Also your use of the phrase which you used "Turkish minority of Thrace" clearly shows your skewed view of the minority as it included pomak and romas which do not identify as "Turks" as for the turkish speaking percentage they identify as Greek Muslims or Turk Greeks. which the current edit fails to mention or even reference. Also your removal of my info box and all my images was unnecessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muhammet211 (talk • contribs) 10:01, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Pomaks and Romas of Western Thrace are not part of the Turkish comunnity. what's your point? Beshogur (talk) 12:39, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

May i ask to why you label it is a "Turkish minority" rather than a muslim one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muhammet211 (talk • contribs) 13:44, 26 December 2021 (UTC)