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Talkback

Hello, TonyTheTiger. You have new messages at LinguistAtLarge's talk page.
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— LinguistAtLarge • Talk  02:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll just bung this in here;

Hello, TonyTheTiger. You have new messages at Chzz's talk page.
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 Chzz  ►  19:49, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh dear; User_talk:Chzz#Canvassing_a_DRV.  Chzz  ►  21:10, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Disappearing Model

On May 1, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Disappearing Model, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 19:21, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Congrats -- Snyder, New York

Congrats on another good article! Nice working with you. :) — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  21:13, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Lane

Hi, I'd like to see if you would reconsider your opposition to the FAC of Franklin Knight Lane in view of changes made.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:07, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for List of 81st Academy Awards In Memoriam tribute honorees

On May 3, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of 81st Academy Awards In Memoriam tribute honorees, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Shubinator (talk) 02:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Ron Botchan

• It really not necessary to provide a cite. There are just too much cites already. When looking at the two articles, one can see both about same age, went to Occidental College and played football. Knew some of the classmates. Recruiter of the group and Botchan told me about this very interest story. The previous cite on Botchan's article has since been removed. Ucla90024 (talk) 17:55, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

81st Academy Awards In Memoriam tribute honorees‎

Did you see the show? (or at least that segment of it) --Ragemanchoo82 (talk) 21:18, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

ARS

I think you'll find you're wrong - posting messages to partisan editors is clearly indicated as vote-stacking at WP:CANVASS. Since you yourself have admitted that ARS is about voting on AfD and DRV, and since ARS is a self-admitted inclusionist Project, then posting about a DRV on their talkpage is as clear an example of votestacking than it's possible to find. Black Kite 21:27, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Vanessa Rousso

Hello! Your submission of Vanessa Rousso at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Dabomb87 (talk) 02:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Chicago 2016

Hi Tony! Can you find a PDF version of Chicago 2016's slogan "Stir the Soul" for upload it under the SVG format? Felipe ^{( talk )} 15:57, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Linking guideline

As noted elsewhere, the Wikipedia guideline Wikipedia:External links#References and citation points out that things used as citations should not be duplicated as external links, except for an official site. The poker articles all comply with this. Please don't add the duplicates again. Also, sometimes a link like the hendonmob stats one has just been dumped in with the external links. If you see that, it should be moved up to cite the career earnings statistics. 2005 (talk) 06:53, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

GA Sweeps invitation

Hello, I hope you are doing well. I am sending you this message since you are a member of the GA WikiProject. I would like to invite you to consider helping with the GA sweeps process. Sweeps helps to ensure that the oldest GAs still meet the criteria, and improve the quality of GAs overall. Unfortunately, last month only two articles were reviewed. This is definitely a low point after our peak at the beginning of the process when 163 articles were reviewed in September 2007. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. All exempt and previously reviewed articles have already been removed from the list. Instead of reviewing by topic, you can consider picking and choosing whichever articles interest you.

We are always looking for new members to assist with the remaining articles, so if you are interested or know of anybody that can assist, please visit the GA sweeps page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. If only 14 editors achieve this feat starting now, we would be done with Sweeps! Of course, having more people reviewing less articles would be better for all involved, so please consider asking others to help out. Feel free to stop by and only review a few articles, something's better than nothing! Take a look at the list, and see what articles interest you. Let's work to complete Sweeps so that efforts can be fully focused on the backlog at GAN. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 08:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for joining the sweeps team. You have been formally accepted. Please follow this sweeps process so that the format and layout will be consistent throughout all articles reviewed by different editors, if you haven't done so. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 15:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Fountain of Time

I have weighed into the FAC with a support, but the nom needs attention from other editors, including supporters/commenters from the last nom and the peer review. I suggest you give these people a prod, before the current nom fades away through lack of attention. Brianboulton (talk) 13:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Copyediting the Obama inauguration article

OK...I did some clean-up of the article, including removing content from the International Attention section to another, existing article (link provided at start of section). More work needs to be done, including addressing all feedback provided by the two FAC reviews. At the earliest, the article can be looked at through the peer review process next week (must wait 14 days after closing the FAC review). Info about peer reviews for biographies can be found here.

Let me know what you think. →Lwalt ^♦ talk 16:12, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Arthur Eve

On May 9, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Arthur Eve, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 06:10, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of María del Luján Telpuk

An article that you have been involved in editing, María del Luján Telpuk, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/María del Luján Telpuk (2nd nomination). Thank you.

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prosesize.js

Hi Tony, I didn't initially see your message as you posted it on an archive of my talk page. There are no issues with the script itself which prevent it being installed and working (it's working fine for me). As I suggested last time, the reason it is not working for you (assuming you've bypassed your cache) may be because of other scripts you have installed, or preferences/gadgets you have enabled. Without seeing what is happening when you try to use the script with your setup, I can't really diagnose the cause. If there are javascript error messages they may give a clue where the problem lies. If you are using Firefox these can be found under Tools->Error console. If you are using Internet Explorer a little yellow warning symbol appears in the bar at the bottom of the window when there are javascript errors; click on this for details about the error. One other possibility would be to try running the script manually. To do this, go to a page, then type the following in the address bar javascript:importScript('User:Dr pda/prosesize.js'); getDocumentSize(); instead of the URL, and press enter. Dr pda (talk) 01:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Glad to hear it is working for you in one form at least. For ease of use it is possible to bookmark that command (just create a new bookmark in your browser then replace the URL by the javascript...). Dr pda (talk) 22:07, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I was a bit unclear in my last comment. In the location for the bookmark type

javascript:importScript('User:Dr pda/prosesize.js'); getDocumentSize();

(In my previous comment I just didn't type out the whole command again to save time, and I was just using the <code><</code> tags to make the command look pretty on the talk page.) Dr pda (talk) 23:28, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Fountain of Time promoted

I'm very pleased to see that Fountain of Time has been promoted FA. I enjoyed my work on that article, and it's a pleasure to see it in the top flight. Brianboulton (talk) 21:12, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations - when do you want to satrt on the BP Bridge? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 21:23, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Let me reread BP Bridge tonight, then ask whatever questions / make suggestions tomorrow. Go ahead with the other FAC, thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 23:41, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I have made some comments at Talk:BP Pedestrian Bridge - not sure if you've seen them or not. Let me know what you think, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:19, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Vanessa Rousso

On 14 May, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Vanessa Rousso, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Dravecky (talk) 02:01, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Class Project

Next year, I am teaching "History of Chicago". I would like to get my students involved with this WikiProject as an ongoing research/class assignment. What do I need to know and how can you use us? My e-mail address is jcsilva at cps dot edu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrSilva (talk • contribs) 20:01, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Re:Four Award

A combination of "busy-in-real-life" + laziness (not particularly proud of this last point; it's having to input all the dates that kills me). If you wish to update it yourself/"personally take charge" of the Four Award, you're more than welcome... (I'll remove my name from the "Reviewers" list as well; before it was just a matter of adding the username and the article's name, but now one must manually copy all those dates... Any chance of a bot? Or perhaps directly a more willing user... ♠TomasBat 22:04, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

What you've done with the nominations you reviewed is ok, as outlined in the instructions. For verification, what I would do was naturally check the article creation diff, the DYK recent changes list link, the GA/FA nom links, and then run a survey on Wikichecker to verify if the nommed editor has been a substantial contributor to that article. The clarified instructions are ok. ♠TomasBat 23:56, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

re: Raymond Brownell

Hi Tony. Raymond Brownell started with such a large byte size as I worked on it for some days in one of my sandboxes before moving it into the mainspace. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I prefer not to move my sandboxes as I usually start sandboxing a new article in them as soon as the old one is moved into the mainspace; it just saves me a bit of extra work. Brownell was initially sandboxed in User:Abraham, B.S./Sandbox/Draft2 before moving to the mainspace. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

re Four Award query

Good to see you did some reviews/awarding. I keep kinda busy w/ WP:CROWN/NOM, perhaps you could institute a nom one, review one, sort of informal policy for WP:FOUR ? Cirt (talk) 02:57, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Again, I'm kinda busy with another awards process thingy, but if you instituted an informal policy that other people should review one for every one they nom, that would help you out. Cirt (talk) 03:08, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Athletics

Hi there Tony! As the primary writer of List of winners of the Chicago Marathon I invite you to join WikiProject Athletics! You may also be interested in a move to get all the five winners lists of the World Marathon Majors to Featured status. Cheers. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)^{WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU!} 11:35, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 2008-09 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team

Hello, I just wanted to introduce myself and let you know I am glad to be reviewing the article 2008-09 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Vicenarian (talk) 05:52, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 2008–09 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team

The article 2008–09 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . It hasn't failed because it's basically a good article, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:2008–09 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team for things needed to be addressed. Vicenarian (talk) 06:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

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Vicenarian (talk) 08:23, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

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Vicenarian (talk) 12:42, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Pre-buffing Bean'.jpg)

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If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

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File:Willie Gillis at the U.S.O..jpg listed for deletion

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File:Willie Gillis on K.P..jpg listed for deletion

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File:Willie Gillis in Church.jpg listed for deletion

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File:Double Trouble for Willie Gillis.jpg listed for deletion

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File:Willie's Rope Trick.jpg listed for deletion

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File:Willie Gillis New Year's Eve.JPG listed for deletion

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File:Willie Gillis Generations.jpg listed for deletion

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Re: WP:FOUR

Hey. I'd be happy to help, but I admit I have never heard of this thing and have no idea what exactly I'm supposed to assist with. Some pointers for the easily confused? --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 21:26, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks so much for nominating me - I will check one or two in the next 4 hours or so as well. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 23:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Okey dokey. I'll try and actively search for new people sometime when I have time :) --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 23:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: GA Thanks -- Phil Ochs

Thank you for the kind words. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 03:43, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Ditto. Tvoz/talk 05:05, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

re Portal:Chicago

It was this change [1]. I have undone it, the change appears to have been made with zero discussion. Cirt (talk) 08:25, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Multi-level Streets of Chicago=

Hey, I am sorry that I never got back to you about this edit. Being busy is no excuse as I did say I would take care of it in a timely manner. I have reserved books at the library to find citations for this. Also, to let you know, I have spoken to, including in person, people at the Streets and sanitation departments and got no useful feedback for this. One guy said that people just don't think about these tings, although the general consensus from them is that clearances are the reason for the levels. Finally, I also spoke to structural engineer who used to work at SOM and he said said exactly what I wrote. He was the engineer in charge for the portion of the viaduct on the north side of the river east of Michigan Avenue to Columbus, and up to Ohio Street. I will get the information to you as soon as I get it and will keep you updated. Again, I apologise for the delay. Gary Joseph (talk) 13:19, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

BP bridge questions

Hi Tony, when you get a chance could you look at my comments on Talk:BP Pedestrian Bridge - I found a dead link in NewsBank and am not sure how to fix it and have some questions on the number of stainless steel plates that may need reference to Gilfoyle's book (which I do not have). Any other feedback on the copyedit would also be welcome, Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 21:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

My original thought on moving the daily sweeping and washing and fingerprint removal was that it was part of the use of the bridge, not design or construction (not sure where it was before, probably construction), so it belonged in the Use section. I also thought it kind of fit as a foible - here's a bridge that is brand new and is mostly made of metal that will not rust and it has to be cleaned and swept and wiped free of finger prints every day? (The covered bridges I work on are lucky if they get a coat of paint every 5 or 10 years). The first two sentences of the current paragraph where it is could instead be something like The city mandates that the bridge be swept and washed daily, and that the parapets be wiped free of fingerprints.[44] The first winter after the park opened, some of the bridge's foibles became apparent. Is that better? I am fine with other suggestions of where to put the daily cleaning sentence too. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:05, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

PS Do you have a figure for how wide Columbus Drive is where the bridge crosses it? I could swear I read it somewhere working on the Initial plans subsection of Design, but now I can't find it. For some reason I could read the Gilfoyle first chapter that was in the New York Times at first, but can't now, so it may be in there. I thought it was about 85 feet. Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:05, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

PPS Now I can read the chapter excerpt in the NYT and it is not in there. Will keep looking, maybe I dreamt it. ;-) Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:11, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, thanks for moving it. I'll keep looking for the width. Totally unrelated question - do the parapets have lights in them to illuminate the bridge deck at night? It appears that they do from the photos. If so, then I think the caption for File:BP Pedestrian Bridge.jpg would be a better place to mention 2000 Brazilian hardwood floorboards, and the caption for File:BP Bridge (no railing).jpg could mention the stainless steel parapets and perhaps the lights. I also wondered if the caption for File:BP Bridge facing NW.jpg might be a place to mention similarities in style between Pritzker Pavilion and the bridge, or Gehry's signature use of curved forms and stainless steel? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 21:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the invitation, but I am not sure I have the time to get that involved right now. I will try to finish my copyedit this weekend. Just have the Aesthtics, Lead, and images to go, then presumably off to peer review and FAC. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 17:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I think it is always useful to go to PR before FAC, especially with a fairly major copyedit like this. It is always good to get a fresh set of eyes to look over the article one last time before FAC. It is your call, but if it were up to me I would go through PR first. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 17:39, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I should be done with my copyedits in the next 5 hours. Sorry to be so slow. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 22:46, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

(out)Thanks for the Aesthetics fixes. I am done with the copyedit and will be glad to help with needed edits in PR and FAC if you want. I also tried rearranging the photos - revert if you don't like the changes. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

William Windsor (goat)

Howdy :-)

I'm calling in favours. I have, I think, spent about a billion hours helping others, and for once I am seeking something in return; to improve William Windsor (goat) in some way.

It is a quirky, kinda interesting article, and I believe it has potential; I put it together as best I could a few days ago, and I'm seeking whatever assistance I can get in its development.

Anything would be greatly appreciated; I really hope this works, in the true spirit of wiki. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  23:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Many thanks for working on William Windsor (goat). Excellent work. It's now B class, and a DYK candidate.  Chzz  ►  21:42, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Louie Caporusso

On May 23, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Louie Caporusso, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Royalbroil 00:56, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

RE:Messages

Please stop leaving messages on my talk page. I am very able to find and comment on discussions I feel are relevant. I do not need, nor want anyone pointing out discussions on Wikipedia for me. Thanks, « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 01:28, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: Sears Tower view

I added the date to the two pics there, and added the comment that Legacy Tower now may block this view to the picture description file on Commons. I do not think it shuld be in the caption, but if you feel strongly about it, what about adding a footnote with a ref tag? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 15:32, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, I was bold and added ^ As of 2009, the recently constructed Legacy Tower blocks the view of the bridge and Millennium Park from Sears Tower at least partially. Is this OK? Please edit at will, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 17:52, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

When I have sent covered bridges to PR I have listed them in the Engineering and Teachnology section. As for the Legacy Tower note, I tried to make it a bit vague (partially blocks the bridge and park). How about just As of 2009, the recently constructed Legacy Tower at least partially blocks the view of Millennium Park from Sears Tower. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:47, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I checked and Niagara Falls Suspension Bridge was also listed at PR under engtech, so I just changed it to that. I am being ultra-dense tonight and am not sure what P.S. the footnote is fine. means for sure - I think it means no change is needed in the article. If it means something else feel free to edit it, or let me know if you want me to try and tweak it. I will see if I can get someone to review it at PR. Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you want me to ask Ealdgyth to check the references before FAC? Are you happy with what we have gotten so far there, or should we wait for more before FAC? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 20:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I have asked Ealdgyth. Do you think it would make sense to ask anyone from the previous FAC what they think of the current version (your call)? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 21:29, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, good idea - thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

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NowCommons: File:20080305 Ellicott Square Building.JPG

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Sistine Chapel ceiling

I have hardly ever edited the article. This sort of thing is exactly why I and so many others consider the whole GA process a complete waste of time. Johnbod (talk) 09:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I just had a search for the "16 unreferenced paragraphs" you referred to. Frankly, I think that you are being ridiculously nit-picking. I really don't give a stuff whether you are pleased or not. I have been too ill in the last ten days to continue the process. But regardless of that fact, removing a green button from the article will do nothing to reduce its quality. And adding the same references over and over will do little to enhance it. As it is, the article is informative, useful and well-written. If adding four or five distracting references to every sentence is what wins cookie points and gets green buttons, then I don't want them. Amandajm (talk) 07:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:PokerTracker screen print.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:PokerTracker screen print.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this file on Wikipedia may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the file description page and adding or clarifying the reason why the file qualifies under this policy. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your file is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a non-free use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for files used under the non-free content policy require both a copyright tag and a non-free use rationale.

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More awards?

Hi Tony, here is the SOM website on the bridge and it lists two awards that are not in the article here. Is this worth including? Also wish I had access to a copy of this. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 21:13, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I was going to ask at WikiProject Bridges about the PSF and see you already did at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Bridges#Live_load_capacities. There is a new response there suggesting the live load not be included in the article. If there is no ref I don't think it should be in. I do watch the article and the PR, and will watch the FAC whenever it starts. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:06, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I think once the load is out it is ready to go to FAC whenever you are ready. No reply by Ealdgyth on her talk page, but she has the Main Page article and is likely busy today. If you want, I will be glad to close / archive the PR whenever - just let me know. Do you want me to take the load out? Was moving the coordinates to the top of the article (from the infobox) OK? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 13:37, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:PokerTracker database print screen.jpg)

Thanks for uploading File:PokerTracker database print screen.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Tony, dear

...thank you for wishing me a speedy recovery. I really have felt quite dreadfully sick.... my doctor told me to rub myself all over with salt and I would be cured.

I have this little problem. You write to me in the gently patronising manner of a High School English teacher encouraging a pupil who he thinks might have talent, but who is not quite working to capacity. As a retired college lecturer (among other things), I tend to get a bit tetchy about it. Perhaps I am being over-sensitive.....

My main contribution to wikipedia is writing large generic art and architecture articles. I do a lot of work offline and then put in large amounts of text, rather than thousands of small edits. I have 85 pages on my watchlist, including most of the major articles on Western architecture (which I have written)- Gothic, Renaissance etc etc. and biographies of the major Renaisance painters- Leonardo, Giotto etc etc. These are top priority and they get vandalised almost daily because a lot of school kids use them. They also get copied and pasted to other sites. I am almost certainly the world's most quoted expert on Leonardo da Vinci, regardless of the fact that I am not acknowledged as such. When I get online, it can take me an hour just to sort out the recent vandalism from the worthwhile edits (which are much rarer!). So my priorities are a bit different to yours. If an article is functional, accurate and readable, I'm happy.

Because I have been teaching art/architectural history (or museum subjects) for so many years, my approach is to read several books and summarise the information into an article, rather than draw sentences with fragments of info from different sources. This is the reason why a often use several section references at the bottom of a section. A single sentence may be dependent on several sources, and not quoted specifically from any single source. I just write, rather than copy and paste. Sometimes, after quoting a fact, it can take hours or weeks to locate the book that I read it in. One of the problems here is that Wikipedia wants people with expertise to contribute articles, but on the other hand, stifles any expression of personal expertise, even if it is not in the least contentious and in no way amounts to "personal research".

There are many subjects where experts here have made major contributions, but have no academic resources whatsoever, in order to back up what they might write. Articles about slating roofs, growing parsnips, keeping bees, felling trees, roping steers and constructing a ferramenta for a stained glass window are likely to be written by people who have never read a manual. We need to keep these people on board, because their contributions are valuable. Amandajm (talk) 12:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Tony, editors like Amanda are rare indeed, and there is a strong argument to be made for grandfathering their aricles, where the work is a synthesis of many sources, and not just paraphrasing here, paraphrasising there. Of course you would need to be familiar with the sources to contest or have an openion on that, but off you go anyhow. Ceoil (talk) 00:29, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Well thats good to hear, thank you. I'd very much like to see the page stay listed, but from experience maybe a month is needed. I do have the books, so I can help. Ceoil (talk) 00:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Re Leonardo, it is in fact a fully referenced article. The construction of it is mine. But there are so many sources out there that it wasn't too hard to reference most of the bits that lacked refs. It was already a long article when I "tidied it up" and I tried to retain significant contributions that had been made by previous editors, rather than just cast them aside. In a few cases it was very hard to discover where the info had come from. As for Sitine Chapel... I'll get back to it. I'm just finding it difficult juggling several thick books without spluttering all over them all the time. Amandajm (talk) 05:57, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Amandajm (talk) 05:57, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Lists of Michigan Wolverines football passing leaders

I have nominated Lists of Michigan Wolverines football passing leaders for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 15:53, 30 May 2009 (UTC)