Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball

3x3 Cup anomalies

This is the first time I see two different articles of the same competition having 2 seperate articles, while the main article is made into a disambig. page

• 2024 FIBA 3x3 Europe Cup (currently disam page)
  • 2024 FIBA 3x3 Europe Cup – Men's tournament
  • 2024 FIBA 3x3 Europe Cup – Women's tournament
• 2024 FIBA 3x3 AmeriCup (currently disam page)
  • 2024 FIBA 3x3 AmeriCup – Men's tournament
  • 2024 FIBA 3x3 AmeriCup – Women's tournament
• 2024 FIBA 3x3 Asia Cup (currently disam page)
  • 2024 FIBA 3x3 Asia Cup – Men's tournament
  • 2024 FIBA 3x3 Asia Cup – Women's tournament

My question is why? The two articles also duplicate some information. I'm not sure if this is against MoS anyway. But there should be the main tournament page, and only if necessary, the subpages (men's and women's) to cover the topic in more detail. I tried to make 2024 FIBA 3x3 Europe Cup into an article, but i was reverted by the creator. Pelmeen10 (talk) 23:32, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

On multi-sports events, men's and women's tournaments have different pages, with the primary article showing the summary from both tournaments. This is not like that though, and it seems that on all 3 (6?) events, the men's and women's tournaments are held on the same venue on the same duration.

The closest analogy I have are the William Jones Cup men's and women's tournaments. In the 2024 William Jones Cup, both tournaments are in one page, and the women's tournament preceded the men's tournament.

Ultimately, if all events are done, would it be necessary for a WP:SPLIT? If it does not, then it should be just one. One could also argue that either sex's tournament are independently notable of each other and needs to be split off. Howard the Duck (talk) 05:22, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Some related guidelines include WP:N:

This is not a guarantee that a topic will necessarily be handled as a separate, stand-alone page. Editors may use their discretion to merge or group two or more related topics into a single article.

WP:NOPAGE:

Often, understanding is best achieved by presenting the topic on a dedicated standalone page, but it is not required that we do so; at times it is better to cover a notable topic as part of a larger page about a broader topic, with more context (and doing so in no way disparages the importance of the topic. Editorial judgment goes into each decision about whether or not to create a separate page, but the decision should always be based upon specific considerations about how to make the topic understandable, and not merely upon personal likes or dislikes.

WP:AVOIDSPLIT:

Also consider whether a concept can be cleanly trimmed, removed, or merged elsewhere on Wikipedia instead of creating a new article. Some topics are notable, but do not need their own article; see WP:NOPAGE.

—Bagumba (talk) 05:39, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Katie Cox

I was looking create page for this basketball youth player, from her professional football career perspective and notbility. Is there anyone who'd be able to help with the basketball side of her career? I'm not sure on the general format for basketball players, so was hoping there might be someone willing to pitch in. At a minimum, to cover the basketball infobox module, assuming she will have both this and the football biography module, within a person infobox. I wouldn't even no where to start looking for stats for basketball. Thanks, CNC (talk) 09:08, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

New AfD

Hi. I just started Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sedale Threatt Jr. (basketball). Just flagging here in case anyone wanted to contribute. Thanks. DaHuzyBru (talk) 07:03, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

3x3 basketball cleanup

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to improve this page? There is a lot of repetition in the Rules section, specifically between the 'Possession and overtime' and 'Scoring' subsections. –uncleben85 (talk) 15:45, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

All-Star Five in infobox

Does FIBA Men's Olympics All-Star Five belong in players' infoboxes (e.g. LeBron James, Stephen Curry)? It hasn't seemed to be a prior practice with FIBA Basketball World Cup All-Tournament Team or NCAA all-tourney teams. A relevant guideline is MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE:

The less information that an infobox contains, the more effectively it serves its purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance.

I don't think it'll be defining in anyone's obit, or that it would be prominently in any player's lead in prose. Too much tends to get crammed in infoboxes. —Bagumba (talk) 04:53, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

A player making the he FIBA Basketball World Cup All-Tournament Team is routinely mentioned in various articles about them, examples [1][2][3][4][5]. If the infobox is crowded, maybe start by removing high school magazine awards in instead of awards by the sport's global governing body? Alvaldi (talk) 17:47, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

we allow about 3-4 awards from HS, and each level of play is determined on its own. But if it means keeping minor tournament designations out at other levels then by all means I vote we drop Parade All-American (though this routinely shows up in designees’ obits). Rikster2 (talk) 22:33, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

All-tournament (at any level) is not significant enough for an infobox that supposedly draws lines about what is included at each level. Stick with just MVP from these events, the Olympic tourney is only 6 games after all, nothing like a full season. Every single award doesn’t need to be there. Rikster2 (talk) 22:31, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

All tournaments (pun intended) are not created equal. The above sources show that the FIBA Basketball World Cup All-Tournament Team are considered a significant part of a players career. The FIBA Men's Olympics All-Star Five is on the other hand is a new award, was first awarded at the Tokyo Olympics so chances are it has yet to gain significance. My main gripe is that an all-team award shouldn't get automatically rejected from the highlights of the infobox just because the competition it belongs to has a "tournament" designation. The highlights section of the infobox is for the highlights of the players career. For some it is being a part of a FIBA Basketball World Cup All-Tournament Team, for others it might being a Fourth-team Parade All-American. Alvaldi (talk) 10:33, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

At WP:NBASTYLE for NBA bios, it limits infobox highlights for those "with 5+ professional highlights". Perhaps that's the cutoff for All-Star Five? It's fine in prose in the body. Re: Parade, that was the prominent honor back in the day for high schoolers, not just a run-of-the-mill magazine award. At any rate, it's defunct, so will affect modern stars' bios less and less, and zero impact to non-US players. —Bagumba (talk) 10:52, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

For players who have few highlights in the infobox, such as Patty Mills and Shawn Kemp, I see no problem including All-Star Five or All-Parade teams. For players with many highlights, I would think it would be case-by-case. For Stephen Curry, being an the All-Star Five might not be one of his top-20-ish highlights, though the same might be said of his NBA Clutch Player of the Year award. Maybe it would be best to limit the highlights to a certain numer. Alvaldi (talk) 13:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

FWIW, Clutch POY is not listed at WP:NBAHIGHLIGHTS. —Bagumba (talk) 14:44, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Cull awards in the infobox. The soccer player infobox does not have it. Lionel Messi infobox is short and sweet with just over 2 screens on mobile as a result. Compare with Lebron James. which is almost 4 and a half screens (on my phone, results may vary, but you'd get the point) Very few of the awards are summarized in the article extensively. Remove it and we won't have these kinds of discussions that don't really improve the article per se. Howard the Duck (talk) 22:55, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

RfC at WikiProject Sports

An RfC at WikiProject Sports is currently seeking a consensus on whether images of all venues in a tournament should be presented in a tournament article's § Venues section. Feel free to join in and share your thoughts! — AFC Vixen 🦊 15:27, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

FIBA Basketball World Cup article name

It should be FIBA World Cup (currently a redirect). The “B” in FIBA stands for “basketball.” So the article name is redundant. Naming should mirror FIFA World Cup. Rikster2 (talk) 13:49, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

"BA" in "FIBA" means basketball (they've dropped "Amateur"). Virtually all WP:RS refer to it on its current title. This makes it sorta tautological like Lake Nyasa ("Lake Lake"). Howard the Duck (talk) 13:58, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough, it’s funny to me that FIBA themselves refer to it as the “FIBA Basketball World Cup,” but it is what it is. What other sort of World Cup would FIBA sponsor lol? Rikster2 (talk) 14:09, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

There's also 3x3 basketball that they are promoting like hell, and are branding it without the word "basketball". Howard the Duck (talk) 15:21, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

ehhh. 3x3 is clearly the “variant” here. Ultimately when FIBA drops the word “basketball,” which I am sure they will at some point, 3x3 would still be called out. Rikster2 (talk) 15:59, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

WP:OR, but maybe FIFA warned FIBA they can't use "FIBA World Cup" as it can easily be mistaken for their tournament, so I dont think FIBA would go down that route. Howard the Duck (talk) 16:22, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

FIBA stands for the governing body. Pelmeen10 (talk) 14:33, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

FIBA calls it "FIBA Basketball World Cup".[6] Maybe they really want to differentiate from footy, like how they moved it from FIFA World Cup years. Sources also use "FIBA Basketball World Cup": "Everything you need to know about the 2023 FIBA Basketball World Cup" (ESPN) "At a European qualifying game for the FIBA Basketball World Cup 2019 ..."(Washington Post). —Bagumba (talk) 14:47, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Is the NBA an independent source for an article about a player?

See Wikipedia_talk:Main_Page/Errors#Independent_sources, for a discussion about this.

--2603:7000:2101:AA00:F804:C954:1D4C:5D11 (talk) 22:18, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Career stats tables

I've been looking at how head coaches records are presented, and in basketball, they're different. You can see this in Rick Pitino where his college and professional stats are presented differently. I know WP:CBB is a long establish project, but should at least it be coordinated that these tables should look the same? Also, looking at Phil Jackson, with him as a player, the season is the first column, followed by the team. On his coaching record, then team is first, then the season. For college basketball, season comes first before the team. Shouldn't these also be the same as well? Howard the Duck (talk) 18:54, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Stats table typically have year as the first column, so I always found the style in NBA's bios bad. The college stlye violates MOS:COLHEAD:

Do not place column headers in the middle of a table to visually separate the table.

Among other things, tables are no longer sortable once headers are shoved into rows.—Bagumba (talk) 01:44, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I kinda like presenting per team totals tho, but will defer to MOS.

NFL coaches also list the team first than the season. See Bill Belichick for example. Howard the Duck (talk) 09:44, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Team totals can go on the bottom, e.g. Pitino at sports-reference.com —Bagumba (talk) 11:04, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah that looks great. Howard the Duck (talk) 11:30, 14 September 2024 (UTC)