Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball/Archive 15

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Redundancy of "Olympic Games" when a specific year olympiad is identified?

Could we get a better understanding just what is the style to be followed when specific Olympiads are dated versus only "Summer Olympic Games". Throughout Spain men's national basketball team is used reference to "Year" Summer Olympic Games" when WP article titles for specific Olympiads does not include games. This is particularly noticeable as when "games" is used in a link it redirects to a "games"less specific Olympiad. I have been advised that "games" isd part of the WP title therefore it should be used but a review of the subject will find the that is not the case. A number of styles are used in reference to olympics articles and the least amount of differences will enable users to pinpoint just what articles best suit their purpose.2605:E000:9149:8300:84CD:A150:538F:A7C2 (talk) 07:38, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

The article currently seems to use "<year> Olympic Games". Are you instead proposing "<year> Summer Olympics"? Actually, I wonder if a simpler "<year> Olympics" would be succinct enough in the context of this article.—Bagumba (talk) 09:00, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

That would seem on the face of the example in question simple enough but it has to be realised that there are also Winter Olympiads. And what seems to be present is links: "YEAR" "SEASON" "OLYMPICS"|"YEAR" "PLACE" "SEASON" "OLYMPICS" / "OLYMPIC" "GAMES". The main article title is "YEAR" "SEASON" "OLYMPICS" All other versions redirect to that. Now, that seasonal Olympics are held every other year it is easy to distinguish just what season they concern but all that have preceded do not so easily fall within that pattern. The of course there is a development toward what best can be described as brand identification such as London Olympic Games. What becomes a situation is when a specialty article is developed that uses a different style Olympiad identification in its title such as when it concerns particular sport national teams at the Olympics ot medals count. There is such a variety it is a hit and miss for the user in order to find just what is it that they best want to see. You can spend a considerable amount of time attempting to find something especially with the referrals to other articles.2605:E000:9149:8300:84CD:A150:538F:A7C2 (talk) 10:21, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

For tables, I think conciseness could be one of the bigger (if not biggest) factors. The user just needs to understand what is meant, and "brand identification" isn't necessarily required for that. This does not need to be the same as our article title criteria. So my thoughts are that 1) Repeating Games in Olympic Games is unnecessarily verbose for a table—Olympics is sufficient. 2) Basketball has always been a Summer Olympics, so specifying only Olympics should be sufficient. Adding Summer would be a redundant repeat. The underlying link to the specific Olympics page would show that it was in the summer, if a reader needs to find out. FWIW, USA Basketball does not specific "Summer" in its all-time US national roster listing. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 16:50, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

That seems simple enough for tables but what about article text? What about that athlete that had a multiple form career that was not centered on summer or winter sport at the Olympics? We generally do not talk about the general subject of Summer Games. we talk about specific editions or Olympiads. Those that though maybe habit attach "games" to YEAR SEASON Olympics create a situation that redirects but really just being encouraged thorough mere presence to declare as the best way to represent it. And it is not if WP article title style is otherwise or using unrealised redundancy.2605:E000:9149:8300:518A:C8F3:6FAB:9178 (talk) 23:05, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Category:CIS Men's Basketball Championship

I have nominated Category:CIS Men's Basketball Championship for merging into its parent category. The discussion could use some comments. Please see: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 October 4#Category:CIS Men's Basketball Championship. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 16:14, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Basketball and Portal:National Basketball Association for deletion

Two discussions are taking place as to whether Portal:Basketball and Portal:National Basketball Association are suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether they should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Basketball Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:National Basketball Association (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nominations will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the pages during the discussion, including to improve the pages to address concerns raised in the discussions. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the pages. Certes (talk) 08:01, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Input needed for renaming Category:New Yorker Phantoms Braunschweig players

I have proposed the renaming of the category to "Category:Basketball Löwen Braunschweig players" at Category talk:New Yorker Phantoms Braunschweig players. The German league team's official name is Basketball Löwen Braunschweig and they were called the New Yorker Phantoms Braunschweig from 2006 to 2014 for sponsorship reasons. Best, GPL93 (talk) 16:10, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Consensus discussion - External Links (ELs)

Hello - I have noticed that external link use seems to vary quite a bit and I am pretty sure we haven't had an in-depth consensus discussion about them, so I thought I'd start one. My interest in doing so started with looking at External link display format, but then I figured I'd lay out a few other discussion topics we can discuss while we are thinking about them. I expect some rigorous debate about some of these things, but hopefully we can set some parameters around at least some of these items. Rikster2 (talk) 16:04, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

1. EL Display Format

Currently, there seem to be two popular external link formats (with minor variations for each);

1. Linked as text - Example [https://www.eurocupbasketball.com/eurocup/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=007821&seasoncode=U2017 EuroCup profile] (displays as EuroCup profile)
2. Linked to name with website outside brackets - Example [https://www.eurocupbasketball.com/eurocup/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=007821&seasoncode=U2017 Brian Conklin] at eurocupbasketball.com (displays as Brian Conklin at eurocupbasketball.com)

Discussion

Proposal: I propose that we do away with repeating the player name in the link and use option #1 above. This practice shown in option 2 seems silly to me for two reasons: 1) If a reader is on a player article, they expect to go to a profile pertaining to that player so repeating the player name for several lines doesn't do anything for them, and 2) not all the urls are obvious. Yes, "fiba.com" is, but is "esake.gr?" This is especially problematic for college bio links in my opinion, as there are several hundred different sites in play - yes, "lsusports.com" is obvious, but how about "geauxcolonels.com?" I recommend that we move to a consistent format such as the following:

• For college bios, we go to a format that makes it clear it is their official college bio. Personally I like "Creighton Bluejays bio," and this is prevalent across Wikipedia, but variants like "Creighton University official bio" or "Creighton Bluejays profile" are OK to me too.
• For official pro league or FIBA player bios, we move to a consistent "FIBA profile," "EuroLeague profile," "USA Basketball profile" or "Liga ACB profile" format. This makes the league/source obvious to the reader before they click.
• For independent stats websites, use "ESPN.com profile," "sports-reference.com profile," etc. However, I recommend we cut the number of these in articles (see subsequent recommendations). Rikster2 (talk) 16:04, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

  The easiest way to standardize on formatting would be to migrate to a template like Template:Basketballstats.—Bagumba (talk) 07:54, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Is this something you know how to create? Rikster2 (talk) 19:15, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Create or just expand the existing one? I can probably do it, with the caveat that there are faster and better template editors than me. Regardless of who does it, to start, will need a list of the websites with sample URLs from each.—Bagumba (talk) 23:09, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

I guess it would be hard to create one for college bios since there are hundreds of sites? Unless the template included the full link? Rikster2 (talk) 17:08, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

College would have to be a full URL if from the college site. We could be generic and just point to https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/ (those seem to be linked already from the basketball-reference.com profile, for NBA players at least)—Bagumba (talk) 09:41, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

2. Number of ELs

I haven't seen where we have a big problem with too many ELs, but I have seen articles where there are a laundry list of ELs with the same information (for example: ESPN.com, foxsports.com, cbssports.com, sports-reference.com, Washington Post all showing college stats). I think some guidance around this would be useful.

Discussion

Proposal: I suggest we cap the number of ELs to something in the 8-10 range (lets say 10 to make a firm recommendation). This allows a diversity of links but doesn't generate a huge list of repetitive links and encourage spammers from new sites/blogs who want to get clicks. I'd recommend we limit this by link category - a rough recommendation would be 1) Official college bio, 2) up to two FIBA/national team bios (example: FIBA.com plus official USA Basketball or national equivalent), 3) Up to five pro league links (prioritized by the value of the info in them, recency, prominence, etc.), 4) No more than three unaffiliated stat profiles (pick the three most comprehensive or those that confirm new information other links don't). This would be a guideline but situations may arise where WP:COMMONSENSE says it is appropriate to go over that number. Rikster2 (talk) 16:04, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with non-NBA leagues, but I wonder how many should be removed per WP:ELNO: Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a featured article. In other words, the site should not merely repeat information that is already or should be in the article. For players predominantly in the NBA, we should continue to avoid the WP:LINKFARM that plagues NFL and MLB bios.—Bagumba (talk) 07:54, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Foreign league sites usually have their stats for that league, which would be unique. Also, they sometimes carry info like middle names, birthplaces or nationalities that aren’t found elsewhere. Some, like the French LNB Pro A actually document past teams in other countries (example). Rikster2 (talk) 17:06, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

3. Acceptable ELs to include

This issue may be harder to come to consensus over. As mentioned in the last recommendation, I think we should limit (not eliminate) the number of ELs and particularly non-official profiles (nbadraft.net, RealGM.com, basketpedya, eurobasket.com, ESPN.com, other news and sports' sites). It is also worth discussing if some of these shouldn't be used. Many of you know I have issues with RealGM - they have been proven to routinely get birthplace wrong as they use "hometown" from college bios and mislabel it - I do get worried that by including these in the EL section it somewhat legitimizes the information in them and you get editors changing birthplaces based on the info found in an "official" external link. That said, the site is accurate for things like player movement. Would love to have discussion on this, but there are also a couple of less controversial decisions to be made

Discussion

Proposal: As stated in the last topic, I recommend we limit the number of each type of EL and aim to add "new information" through the ones we do include. I recommend that we never include NBA.com or basketball-reference.com for current or former NBA players as these links are included in the infobox. I further propose that for social media, we include official (verified) Twitter accounts, but no other social media. Pro teams link player Twitter accounts so fans can follow them, so it seems like this is encyclopedic in this day and age. Last, I'll put it out there assuming pushback, I recommend we formally document that we not use for ELs independent sites proven to not be reliable for key information (like RealGM.com) - they could still be used to source info like player movement, and that we add specific language discouraging use of sites which spam users with popups, etc. (don't have any specific ones in mind, but may as well codify this if creating consensus). Rikster2 (talk) 16:04, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

I've always toyed with idea of starting something like Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#Sources for questionable NBA/basketball sources.—Bagumba (talk) 07:54, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Infobox links I treat them more as a citiation for the infobox (esp. height, weight, number, pos, etc). I don't see a problem with repeating them in EL sections (at least for the current NBA set). As a reader, I just naturually go to the end looking for "other info", and dont want to have to worry about if it was already in the infobox. While these aren't official liks per se, WP:ELOFFICIAL does not restrict those links from being in both the infobox and EL section: Official websites may be included in some infoboxes, and by convention are listed first in the External links section.—Bagumba (talk) 07:54, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Eyeglass protector

I think this is the first photo we have of one of eyeglass protectors like this for playing basketball; if it's useful somewhere, great! Also, if anyone knows more about them, I'd be interested. - Jmabel | Talk 05:29, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Notification of a proposed change at Template:Infobox basketball club

I am notifying the members of the project about a proposed change at Template:Infobox basketball club. The discussion can be found at Template talk:Infobox basketball club#Move current season to bottom. Your opinions would be appreciated. – Sabbatino (talk) 11:11, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Sports reviewing ideas

I've floated some ideas in the hope of increasing participation for FAC reviews of sports related articles at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports#FAC reviewing of sports articles if anyone is interested in the idea or has a better one. Kosack (talk) 09:17, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Tim Andree

Hello, my name is Lucy and I work for Dentsu Aegis Network. I've made an account to represent the company and propose changes to related articles. Back in August, I shared a draft article about Tim Andree for editor review. Tim is notable for his basketball and executive careers, and has been profiled by Ad Age, Crain's New York Business, The Economic Times, China Daily, and Financial Times, among others. His name is linked at Dentsu Aegis Network, 1983–84 Chicago Bulls season, and Chicago Bulls draft history.

After my initial post here, a couple editors made some improvements to the draft, but the page has still not been taken live. User:CNMall41 has recommended asking WikiProject Basketball again for feedback regarding notability, and

User:Missvain posted a comment confirming there are no copyright violations. Tim did not play in an NBA game specifically, but I should note that he played professionally in Italy, Japan (for the Toyota Pacers), Monaco, and Spain, and is also notable for his executive career at Dentsu and Dentsu Aegis Network. Will someone from WikiProject Basketball review the draft and take the page live, assuming notability criteria are met? Thanks! LH Dentsu (talk) 09:14, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

He doesn't technically meet the basketball-specific notability criteria, but we shouldn't just focus on that. I think he easily meets the general notability guideline when you consider all the material written about him over the years, both for his basketball career and for his business career. And even though he didn't make an NBA roster, his basketball career was still respectable. He was a McDonald's All-American, and played for a major college team. I would be happy to take this article live myself, but I've never been involved with that process. I'll ping CNMall41 (talk · contribs). Zagalejo^^^ 20:36, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Zagalejo, I will make the page live now and leave to you to improve how you see fit. Thanks for the input and good luck.--CNMall41 (talk) 08:40, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

CNMall41 Thanks for your help! LH Dentsu (talk) 17:15, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

A tale of two Dean Smiths

A discussion has been started at Talk:Dean Smith regarding whether Dean Smith should be regarded as the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, or whether it should be disambiguated. I welcome your participation in the discussion, which can be found at this location. Please keep all discussion regarding the proposed disambiguation on the relevant talk page. Thanks, Domeditrix (talk) 14:17, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

RFC on use of nationality and birthplace

FYI

There is an RFC on birthplace and nationality parameters in infoboxes, which is related to this project's use of Template:Infobox basketball biography. You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Infoboxes#RfC_on_birthplace,_nationality,_and_citizenship_parameters_with_matching_values.—Bagumba (talk) 09:03, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

How to phrase text about LeBron James being considered the greatest basketball player of all time?

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Talk:LeBron James#Removing Michael Jordan from Lebron's introduction - phrasing of sentence for GOAT. A permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:04, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Please revive Portal:Basketball

I noticed that a couple months ago, the portal for basketball was deleted (see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Basketball). This was a misguided move, since every other major sport has a portal (see Portal:Baseball, Portal:Association football, Portal:Ice hockey, Portal:American football, Portal:Volleyball, Portal:Cricket, and Portal:Tennis). This leaves basketball as the only major world sport without a portal, apart from golf. I have no experience in creating portals, so someone needs to help. Sanjay7373 (talk) 00:05, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

@Sanjay7373: Did you want to create a portal, or are you asking for a volunteer to do it?—Bagumba (talk) 10:01, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

@Sanjay7373: Please read the nomination on why it was deleted in the first place. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a justification to restore something that was abandoned for a long time. – Sabbatino (talk) 11:54, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

I'd rather have this stay deleted than see it on a sorry state. Nobody (and by nobody, not actually 0) visits portals. Howard the Duck (talk) 02:32, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

As a basketball fan, I find it shameful that this is the only major team sport in the world without a portal. I can create the portal on basketball, but I am not too much of an expert on creating portals, so if I make a mistake, I will try to fix it as soon as possible. Sanjay7373 (talk) 03:59, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Don't bother. Portals are a terrible waste of everyone's time, and a failed bad idea. Not only should the basketball portal not be recreated, all the others (and I mean all the over portals) should be deleted. oknazevad (talk) 04:03, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Instead of deleting a bad-looking portal, one should find ways to improve the quality of the portal. Perhaps a basketball expert on Wikipedia could help. Sanjay7373 (talk) 04:39, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

There are a lot of basketball experts here, and no one wants to maintain a portal no one visits. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:51, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Just compare this to the other sports portals I mentioned above. Basketball is one of the world's most popular sports. If sports like baseball, cricket, and American football have portals, why doesn't basketball have one?. Sanjay7373 (talk) 06:52, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

You just WP:DONTGETIT, do you? We already told you why it was deleted. This is not about the sport being popular. If nobody maintains the portal then it gets deleted. – Sabbatino (talk) 09:13, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

No one has to reply until he explains what "no one wants to maintain a portal no one visits" means. Howard the Duck (talk) 12:18, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

According to the deletion discussion, the page got 26 views per day in the 3 months prior to the deletion. In the last 20 days almost half of the portals have had less than 26 views per day. Also, the deletion discussion says that the portal covers a relatively narrow topic. I don't know how basketball is a more narrow topic than baseball, football (both soccer and American football), cricket, etc. I will try to re-create Portal:Basketball when I have free time. Sanjay7373 (talk) 02:47, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Just so you know, less than 26/day is pathetic. Here are some latest page view stats: LeBron James gets almost 20,000/day, Los Angeles Lakers gets 5,200/day, basketball itself gets 5,000/day, 2019–20 NBA season gets 4,000/day, 2019–20 EuroLeague gets 939/day. The actual portal supposedly got less than 26/day. No comment on how or why basketball is a narrow topic, but no one maintained that sorry portal, nobody cared, nobody visited, and apparently only you were sad it was gone.

I'd actually prefer a per-topic portal, like an NBA portal, or a European basketball one. That might get more contributors or pageviews. For a major sport, basketball is a disjointed sport, the leagues are not well-connected to each other as say the football ones. But only if it'll be maintained and gets eyeballs. If it won't, don't. Howard the Duck (talk) 03:05, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Portals are a bit of minefield right now. I'd suggest seeing what becomes of the case at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Portals.—Bagumba (talk) 04:19, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Matt Mooney date of birth

Hi. There has been a small edit war Matt Mooney regarding his date of birth. Several sources say 1995, while others 1997. I was wondering what others thought about this/which sources were reliable. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 14:27, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

His NBA and G League pages say 1997, what sources say 1995? College bios are usually reliable for this but neither Texas Tech or South Dakota show a birth year. I think we need to go with official sources over others. Given five years in college 1995 is plausible though. Rikster2 (talk) 15:34, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Funny thing is the NBA made a big deal out of certifying birthdates this year Rikster2 (talk) 15:35, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Real GM and NBAScoutingLive give us 1995. I would trust the NBA though. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 16:52, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

He graduated high school in 2013 [1], and missed the 2013-2014 college season because of a biking injury [2]. A 1995 birthdate makes more sense than a 1997 birthdate. It's highly unlikely he graduated high school at age 16. Zagalejo^^^ 04:55, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the Grizzlies' media guide did list his birth as February 7, 1995 [3]. Zagalejo^^^ 05:02, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

I suggest we use 1995 and put a hidden note (and detail why on his Talk page. I agree with Zagalejo that it’s highly likely 1995 is correct. Rikster2 (talk) 13:36, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Now an IP editor claiming to be Mooney says he was born in 1996. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 16:11, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

There are zero sources that say 1996. Sounds like vandalism. Rikster2 (talk) 16:47, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Euroleague seasons are getting too big for Wikipedia - time to split or reduce content

The question came up at WP:Village pump (technical)#Template question(permalink). The 2018-19 and 2019-20 seasons are affected. Note that the league expanded from 16 to 18 teams this season.

If the detailed scoring information is kept on some official web site, a stable archive site like archive.org, or other stable location, I recommend replacing removing the detailed scoring information from the scoring tables.

If that is not desirable, I recommend making the "Matches" section its own article with a link from the "regular season" article into it. Another option is to remove the flag icons, but that would be a controversial change.

An 18-team, 30-round regular season should barely fit into the 2GB "expanded template size" limit.

See Help:Template#Template limits and Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded for more information on the general problem of articles that are too large after "expansion." davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 23:23, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

I started retiring referee flags (absolutely unnecessary). -12,154 at 2018–19 and -10,086 at 2019–20. I hope it helps. Asturkian (talk) 23:53, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

I've (slightly) optimized {{Basketballbox collapsible}}, which made the post-expand include size of the 19/20 article go from 2,065,259 to 2,001,652 bytes, which means you've got just over 60KB more room on that article. I'm not sure if there's more optimizations available, I'm not that confident in my template-fu. HTH! rchard2scout (talk) 09:53, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

both pages now have runway, but the current season will need to be watched as it grows. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 20:28, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Luka Zaharijevic

Hello, basketball experts. This draft was declined because it needs a lot of work. Knowing little about basketball, I can't tell if this is a notable player or not; if so, perhaps someone here could help out the editor or fix up the draft.—Anne Delong (talk) 19:10, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Basketball IQ

Need your thoughts and comments on how to make this either into a decent glossary definition for Glossary of basketball terms or a stub that isn't biased towards one editor's original research. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 21:22, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Discord

Hey all, I hope everyone is safe and healthy. My name is HickoryOughtShirt?4 and I'm a member of WikiProject Ice Hockey. I was wondering if there was any interest in starting a WikiProject Sports channel on Discord? There's quite a few of us who are interested in sports, and I think it would be a good idea to help the WikiProject recruit more members. You guys can join us through here.HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 23:56, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Infobox statistics

Moved to Talk:Patrick Ewing § Infobox statistics

 – Avoid parallel discussions. Feel free to start a new thread on the coaching stats.—Bagumba (talk) 06:49, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

There is a current discussion about whether the infobox listed career statistical categories should be standardized to points, assist, and rebounds or whether the listed categories should depend on the player. This debate is currently being discussed at Talk:Patrick Ewing#Infobox statistics. Morbidthoughts (talk) 19:55, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Can't we list all five possible (if possible), with no discrimination, and nothing else, in one line, like "25.0 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.5 bpg" (Guess who's career stats are those)? (I wrote this but didn't sign it. Howard the Duck (talk) 05:24, 23 April 2020 (UTC))

I agree with you. Listing all five main stats should be allowed if possible. Sorcererzthunder (talk) 20:34, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Likewise, for coaches, at the very least we should list win-loss records. Howard the Duck (talk) 06:43, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Youth basketball titles

Hi, I have a question. I would like to know why are the titles for the youth basketball teams completely contrast to their football counterpart. I mainly edit the football and basketball side, and never notice this issue on the football side compared to basketball.

See Spain national under-18 football team, to Spain men's national under-18 basketball team. I find it quite odd, that some of the youth basketball page titles include 'men's' for some reason in the name of the title page, whereas the football side here:(Category:European national under-18 association football teams), everything sinks up with the senior national team and doesn't cause disambiguation on pages like some links may do with the basketball side. There's an obvious clear distinction with the women's football and basketball national pages. All the senior/youth football pages are listed under insert (country) 'national under football team'. The youth basketball pages could be listed similarly as well, to make titles less complicated. Thanks! SpinnDoctor (talk) 09:32, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

The guy above you want's to put "men's" on every men's national team article, while you want to ditch it. What do you guys really want? AFAIK the template handles this quite nicely. Howard the Duck (talk) 10:23, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

It's ambiguous without men/women. Per WP:COMMONNAME: Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources. AFAIK, men's college teams generally have "men's" in their titles at Category:College men's basketball teams in the United States.—Bagumba (talk) 10:46, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

@Howard the Duck: @Bagumba: Thanks for the feedback and info.

Men's national teams

I would like to rename all "national basketball team" articles to "...men's national basketball team". Currently, there is a mixture of article names on Wikipedia. For example,

• Spain national basketball team, versus
• China men's national basketball team.

Or see the youth teams in Category:National under-18 basketball teams.
In ice hockey, every national team article contains words "men's" in name. It would be good to do this in basketball as well. Maiō T. (talk) 20:40, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

@Maiō T.: I have no objection (see below at #Youth basketball titles).—Bagumba (talk) 11:05, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

I agree with adding the word "men's" into the title where it is missing per Bagumba WP:COMMONNAME argument in #Youth basketball titles. — Alvaldi (talk) 11:54, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your contributions, I'm gonna rename some articles. Maiō T. (talk) 10:45, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Category:Deceased basketball players

Is this a good idea? Doesn’t seem very differentiating as every single basketball player is going to die at some point. Maybe if the category were moved to something about active players who died. Rikster2 (talk) 16:59, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

I don't think there is a reason for this cat. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 17:14, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

I saw the category being added to some pages and I also think that it should be nominated for deletion. – Sabbatino (talk) 17:53, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

It’s up for deletion if anyone wants to participate. Rikster2 (talk) 13:58, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Deceased Basketball player

I saw in the news that this basketball player died. Among others world champion and 3x European champion. With Wikipedia pages also in multiple languages is looks like to me she is notable. Maybe someone here likes to start an article: Maret-Mai Otsa-Višnjova (Suri korvpalli maailmameister Maret-Mai Otsa-Višnjova). SportsOlympic (talk) 20:43, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

There's no reason you can't be WP:BOLD and create it yourself. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 01:02, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Texas Longhorns men's basketball statistical leaders

Do we typically host articles like Texas Longhorns men's basketball statistical leaders? Came across it at NPP, it seems to me like it might fail WP:GNG (only one source, the media guide) and WP:NOTSTATS, thought I'd ask the project before I tagged it. SportingFlyer T·C 02:08, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@SportingFlyer: No opinion on the practice. There are other similar pages at Category:Lists of college basketball statistical leaders by team. It wouldn't be a problem to source it independently for a school like Texas. The more relevant project would be Wikipedia:WikiProject College Basketball. Cheers.—Bagumba (talk) 04:31, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Bagumba: Thanks for your response. It looks as if all of these have been created/are being created by one user during the past few months. SportingFlyer T·C 04:36, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Discussion about Sporting News as reliable source

Hi there, I started a discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard that may interest users here. I read this article on The Sporting News that contained a bunch of factual errors about Olympic basketball - I then learned that the Sporting News was basically demolished in 2012 and by 2015 was being used by the new owner of the name to promote DAZN. JimKaatFan (talk) 16:08, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Request to add fields to Template:Infobox basketball biography

There is a request to add coaching wins/losses and win% to this template. Please go to Template talk:Infobox basketball biography#Notable High School Coaches and weigh in on the discussion. Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 23:13, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

The diamond ball 2004 page doesnt list USA as being there

I was just looking at the Diamond Ball 2004 page, it lists the participants without listing team USA. The USA was present and played, I watched the game against Serbia, and I was actually an organizer of the event. Not sure who Im supposed to address to make a change there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gorzul (talk • contribs) 21:03, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

According to this, the US was involved in an exhibition game, not the tournament: link. Zagalejo^^^ 16:13, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Template:KK Crvena zvezda coach navbox dispute edit

Need feedback, even though it's obvious what my stance is. Who's in the right when it comes to the impending edit war on Template:KK Crvena zvezda coach navbox? 71.56.244.35 (talk) 06:54, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

@71.56.244.35: You are right. There is absolutely no need to divide the head coaches by historical eras. IndexAccount (talk · contribs) Please stop grouping head coaches based on historical eras. There is no consensus for that. – Sabbatino (talk) 09:30, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. 71.56.244.35 (talk) 15:16, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Sponsored club names in articles

Many basketball clubs in Europe have sponsored team names that seem to change every year or so. We have already made the step into changing the name of the pages to the original club names. However, on most pages such as season pages the sponsored names are still used. Therefore, it is very hard to find the team you are looking for because the name constantly changes.

Is there a way we can solve this problem? Maybe we can add a section "Sponsored names" (example) to season pages and then refer to the teams under their non-sponsored names? --H-Hurry (talk) 13:34, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

If the sponsored names are not recognizeable years later, they don't meet WP:COMMONNAME. If they are considered the common name, then use redirects for people that might look using a different name.—Bagumba (talk) 16:20, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

I'd be okay using sponsored names if they are used for several seasons, but if it's a one-year thing that passed, no need to mention it. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 17:55, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Protocol of Stockholm

Main page: Draft:Protocol of Stockholm

I'm a member of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Handball and I'm working on the article Protocol of Stockholm which involves basketball.

I think must of you don't know that basketball was under the umbrella of the International Amateur Handball Federation before the protocol.

Could somebody of the basketball project read the draft and make sure that the basketball view is correct and add maybe more information from basketball sources.

I've two sources in german which are good. If you like to read them and add the content of them please write me an e-mail mail@malo95.ch.

Thank you for your help.--Malo95 (talk) 16:42, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Jewish American basketball people has been nominated for discussion

Category:Jewish American basketball people has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Place Clichy (talk) 22:16, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Edit war with IP user

Hi, I'm in a trouble with an IP editor as he wants to set Partizan and Unicaja at 2020–21 BCL without sourcing and deleting the team and source at the EuroCup next season's article, where Unicaja's president say his team will playe EC. Can you please solve it? Asturkian (talk) 22:21, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Article needed - any takers?

All, Nic Jorge (AKA Nicanor Jorge), former National team and college coach in the Philippines, Secretary General of the Basketball Association of the Philippines and founder of the BEST Center, died yesterday (June 13). He is a significant basketball figure and deserves an article. I am wondering if someone would like to take this on? Here are a coiled of starter sources (1, 2, 3). Rikster2 (talk) 13:18, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Reliable reference

what can be reliable reference for my article? I provided Georgian basketball federation and zazapachulia basketball academy official web-sites, but not enough :/ somebody can help? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Zaza_Pachulia_Basketball_Academy Porokha (talk) 18:35, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

G League Select Team

In the last few months, several notable high school players, including Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga, have joined the G League Select Team instead of a college program and signed contracts of up to $500,000. The team will not play official games in the NBA G League, and will instead have a reduced schedule (about 20 games) with exhibition games against G League teams, foreign national teams and NBA academies. Its roster will also include veteran players. Since this is a new concept, I would like to get a consensus on how to format the Select Team players' articles and infoboxes. Sportzeditz (talk) 14:38, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Seems like we should wait until more details come out about the G League select team - for example, will it have a different name? And where did you get the colors for the infobox as shown on Jalen Green? Has any announcement of official colors been made? If they aren't actually competing I am also OK with displaying no team since it is not actually a "team" at that point. Rikster2 (talk) 15:34, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

I used the colors from the NBA G League logo. Sportzeditz (talk) 16:22, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Those are not the team colors - no team colors have been released. This is an encyclopedia - no assuming. Rikster2 (talk) 19:10, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

OK, I have removed those colors for now. Sportzeditz (talk) 19:38, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

I would argue that it is an actual team, because they are playing games, if only exhibition. What is the problem with formatting? ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 16:37, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

I think it just depends on if they are treated like a team - will there be a website with a roster, etc. At a certain level it's possible it is just a training program. That's the point though- very few details have been released so how should we know how to treat them if the G League doesn't? Rikster2 (talk) 19:12, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Clubs performance comparison of the EuroLeague etc.

Main page: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/EHF Champions League clubs performance comparison

There is an Aft if lists of performance comparison of club competitions are notable or not. This Afd effects following lists: UEFA Champions League clubs performance comparison, UEFA Europa League clubs performance comparison, AFC Champions League clubs performance comparison, Performance record of clubs in the Premier League, EuroLeague clubs performance comparison, Copa Sudamericana clubs performance comparison, Euro Hockey League clubs performance comparison and similar lists. Malo95 (talk) 07:07, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Biography naming convention

Currently at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sportspeople), there are no formal instructions for disambiguating basketball people. I propose formalizing it and adding the following for basketball:

1. When there are multiple people with the same name, and one of them is notable in basketball, disambiguate that person using (basketball). Example: Anthony Bennett (basketball)
2. If there are multiple basketball people with the same name, but they have different roles, disambiguate by their job responsibility. Examples: Larry Miller (basketball player), Roy Williams (basketball coach)
3. If there are multiple basketball people with both the same name and overlapping roles, disambiguate by their birth year. Example: Jason Williams (basketball, born 1975)

Please provide your feedback.—Bagumba (talk) 10:58, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

• Support recommendations. This is the most concise method and most likely to aid readers. Rikster2 (talk) 11:28, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
• Support this is reasonable. Howard the Duck (talk) 12:20, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
• Support I thought this was already how it was. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 13:01, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

@Rikster2, Howard the Duck, and Editorofthewiki: I've submitted the above proposal for discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(sportspeople)#Basketball_naming_convention to add to the guideline.—Bagumba (talk) 07:39, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Golden Eagles (TBT)

Do people think It’s a good idea to have articles for individual TBT teams? It’s not a league, it’s a semi-pro tournament. The only reason it got big play this year is that no one else is playing ball. Rikster2 (talk) 22:30, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• I don't have a problem with it. If we are going to create them, next up should be last year's winner, Carmen's Crew. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 12:05, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
• Not a TBT follower. Does the team get coverage about their history? Or is it just routine coverage about a given season. Not that it's a reflection of its notability, but the current page is just a stats listing sourced from the league itself and a stats site.—Bagumba (talk) 10:53, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
  • You aren’t alone in not being a TBT follower - IMO it’s not notable beyond the overall event. But, no, there is rarely any coverage beyond when the event is going on or the build up (marketing) to it. Rikster2 (talk) 12:18, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
    • If it fails WP:BEFORE for GNG, nominate it.—Bagumba (talk) 12:32, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
      • Golden Eagles received a decent amount of coverage this year for winning it. They are also the second winningest team in the history. The article as it stands is in pretty good shape. I'm not sure about some of the lesser teams, like those who lost in the first round, nut that's a different discussion. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 13:29, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
        • When you evaluate the sources, you have to remember that the following are not independent sources - anything from TBT itself and coverage from Marquette-only fan sites and blogs. I would also argue that espn.com coverage is not independent in this case as they have a multi-year broadcast agreement, few other sports to promote, and the TBT has no track record of coverage by significant national sources (which is different from MLB, NBA, NCAA, etc.). Rikster2 (talk) 13:36, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
          • Best compromise is do a per-tournament rosters page. I think that's currently being done. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:39, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

External links

Hey, while going through the last uses of {{Basketball-reference}} some questions about how to handle external links came up and in particular links to the NBA profiles and Basketball-reference. There are several ways to links these. First of all there is {{Basketballstats}} which is used for NBA and Basketball-reference links in the external links section, but does not support WNBA links. Then there is {{Infobox basketball biography}} which supports NBA, WNBA, BBR and WNBA BBR links and then finally there is {{WNBA player}} which only does WNBA.com links. This is probably more confusing than necessary with {{WNBA player}} being a prime candidate for a merge with {{Basketballstats}} just like {{NBA player}}. There is also the question of the preferred way of including the links; should {{Infobox basketball biography}} or {{Basketballstats}} be preferred or should both be included. Pings to @Bagumba, Gonnym, and ProcrastinatingReader: as they've participated in related discussions at WP:TFDH or Template talk:Basketballstats#WNBA_bbr. --Trialpears (talk) 12:05, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

{{WNBA player}} should be merged, at least. For the infobox, I'm all for reducing redundancy where possible. In this case, it seems like the output is different on that template. The way this template outputs would be too long to be in an infobox. So that should be noted. If the processing part of that were to be merged into here, it should probably be with an option for "shortlinks" (ie, infobox style) and "long links" (the current external style). One could argue that those links shouldn't be in the infobox at all, and should only be at the bottom in external links, but I'm not really familiar with the topic area enough to know if that point is good. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 13:37, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

I'd treat the infobox and EL section independently. In a lot of cases, the infobox links act as a reference for facts in the infobox that might not be in the body. For readers, they might get to the end of an article and missed that the link was in the infobox. I dont see any harm if they are repeated.—Bagumba (talk) 14:36, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Note: Notification about this discussion has been left at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball/Women's basketball and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association.—Bagumba (talk) 14:57, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

It doesn't make much sense to add support for WNBA links from basketball-reference.com to {{basketballstats}} unless {{WNBA player}} is also merged. I'll leave the decision of whether this is merged to the WNBA editors.—Bagumba (talk) 15:02, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

• Merge discussion started at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2020 July 28#Template:WNBA player --Trialpears (talk) 09:53, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Interlanguage links in lists of players

Is there a guideline regarding placing interlanguage links to lists of people, as in Alvark Tokyo#Notable players? The links are directed to the Italian, German, or French Wikipedias, which is strange considering the team is Japanese. Would using Template:Interlanguage link to the Japanese Wikipedia be a viable solution? ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 12:55, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I personally think it is bad practice to use interlanguage links in these cases. Readers expect an article in the home language when they see a blue link and an interlanguage link masks that there isn't an English article for a subject whereas a redlink might encourage article creation. Rikster2 (talk) 18:32, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Also, funny thing, "Clif Brown" and "Wilbert Brown" on that list are the same person Rikster2 (talk) 18:36, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Property proposal on Wikidata

Hello,

I'm a member of the French basketball project and I recently proposed a property on Wikidata to add an external link to the website Proballers on players' article. I detail the reasons in the proposal but the main one is that we use regular season statistics and RealGM does not distinguish between regular season and playoffs statistics. Sport-Reference does it but very few championships are offered so I think this site is a good complement for the understanding of the values we display. You can give your opinion here, these additions being subject to a vote.

Thank you in advance, Jorlck (talk) 09:46, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

RM Discussion at Chris Mullin

All - There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Chris Mullin#Requested move 22 August 2020. Please feel free to join in if you are so inclined. Rikster2 (talk) 20:02, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Just created 1961 Celtics boycott since it's being cited in news as a precedent for August's NBA boycott

I'd seen several mentions in the news that the sports boycott following the Kenosha police incident has precedent in a 1961 boycott by players of the Boston Celtics. I couldn't find much about it on Wikipedia, so I pulled up some sources and started a stub at 1961 Celtics boycott. I just wanted to get the ball rolling, but would welcome others to help expand it. MatthewVanitas (talk) 04:59, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Giannis Antetokounmpo

There are three instances in the article where it is said his surname is a Greek rendition of Adetokunbo. I tried to revert one edit but it was reverted in turn. How can we fix it?--Carnby (talk) 17:16, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Templated team standings/league tables

What are your stands in using templates for team standings/league tables? These are also increasingly being used for playoffs brackets as well. Discussion at WT:FOOTY prefers this to be on a cumbersome pseudo-template in the main season article. There had been several TFDs, not just in football articles, but basketball ones, having these deleted. Now, I know these Europeans won't touch American sports articles that use this with a 100-meter pole so I suppose we can ignore those and just deal with the non-U.S. templates that are being used. Howard the Duck (talk) 18:55, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Category:Semi-professional basketball players

This category was newly-created and in my opinion needs some parameters. In truth, I am concerned that will struggle to be well-defined enough, but my mind could certainly be changed if we could clearly articulate when to use it. I have concerns about what constitutes "semi-professional" basketball - is it the AAU? The Continental Basketball Association? Developmental teams for European and Australian leagues? Rikster2 (talk) 15:05, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

This is actually a term frequently used in the Philippines. There's no concrete definition, but the thinking is these are basketball leagues that pay players, but aren't supervised by the Games and Amusement Board, and are not associated with scholastic leagues. The old Philippine Basketball League fits this definition, it being tagged as "semi-professional".

Also, will this include former semi-professional players that turned fully pro? Howard the Duck (talk) 19:01, 11 September 2020 (UTC)