Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers/Archive 17

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Films released digitally

In filmography tables of actors, we are not supposed to mention if a feature film was released digitally in the notes column, right? But AmNaTi200 mentioned Jagame Thandhiram in Dhanush filmography as a Netflix film which I have since reverted because I believe as long as it's a feature film nothing about the means of release should be mentioned. This is not the first time he did though. Kailash29792 (talk) 06:39, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

There Was A Big Confusion Regarding This Thing In My Mind... Thanks For Clearing My Confusion... Will Take Care In Future. AmNaTi200 (talk) 06:43, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Based on previous discussions on this, they should be listed as either "Direct-to-streaming film" or "Streaming film". We don't do "Disney film" for films released by Disney in theaters, so we should certainly not do things like "Netflix film" or "Hulu film" for films released via streaming for the same reasons (e.g. WP:NOTPROMO for one). But there is still a difference between threatrical released films and "direct-to-video" or "direct-to-streaming" films. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 06:43, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Actually I Am To Wikipedia & Trying My Best To Provide All The Information Regarding To The Reader & That's The Reason I Wrote The Name Of OTT Platform... But As I Said, Will Take Care Of This Thing In Future AmNaTi200 (talk) 06:54, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Correction : I Am New To Wikipedia Please Ignore Regarding... Wrote It By Mistake. AmNaTi200 (talk) 06:56, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Christian Bale FAC

Hi there WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers members! I recently nominated Christian Bale (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) as a FAC and wanted to bring it to your attention. For those who are unfamiliar with his work, Bale is known for starring in films such as American Hustle and the Dark Knight trilogy. If I may, I'd like to ask interested members to leave comments on the nomination page. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much! KyleJoan^talk 11:03, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Actors/Actress Lead

Hello guys. I need your input. I am encountering problems with an IP and their arguments are that for an actor or actress, we don't put the years next to the shows that are listed in the lead. For example, "appeared in Breaking Bad (2008-2013)". They remove the years saying that it only belongs in the filmography and not the in the lead. I have visited tons of articles and the years in the lead are present. The years indicate when the personality was associated with a project. I tried reaching a consensus with them, but they show no attempt to practice doing the same. What are your thoughts? Is it prohibited? Fizconiz (talk) 17:23, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Disha birth year

This is about Indian film actress Disha Patani. Her birthdate is cited by sources as 13 june 1992. Then later there was some sort of misunderstanding and media sources reported that she said her birthdate to be july 1995 (but WP:OR, I think she was saying about her sister birthdate in july). Now in recent instagram post see 3rd image, it appears she turned 28 now which means her birth year is 1993. Further I found an archive from 2012 she is 19 Now I am not sure whether the age shown is before of june 2012 or after it, so not sure she is 29 or 28 now. so what to keep in article. -- Parnaval (talk) 06:57, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

One option: Report both, and include an inline note indicating that there is conflicting information on the birthdate (year). I've seen this done at least one other article, though I am unable to remember which article it is at this time. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:13, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

IJBall, Parnaval, I think did just that for Ng Man-tat before his death for a short while when the news had reported different years. However, the family had came forward to clarify his age among other stuff during his funeral. – robertsky (talk) 08:35, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Rendezvous with Simi Garewal

Please expand the article Rendezvous with Simi Garewal. It was a very popular show and is quite notable. Peter Ormond 💬 23:15, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Jaime King

Jaime King, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Aircorn (talk) 19:31, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

David Schwimmer

David Schwimmer, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Aircorn (talk) 19:47, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject Interview

Hi everyone, I've really enjoyed reading WikiProject interviews in the Signpost over the years and now I'm taking a stab at conducting them. Please have a look and contribute some responses to the interview: User:Tom (LT)/sandbox/WikiProject actors and filmmakers interview draft. It's a great way to educate others about your WikiProject and the work you're doing here, and perhaps get help or new contributors if you need it.

I invite anyone interested to contribute and look forward to hearing from you, Tom (LT) (talk) 22:24, 25 June 2021 (UTC) Tom (LT) (talk) 22:18, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• Ping to some editors above (@Robertsky, @Fizconiz, @IJBall, @Parnaval @KyleJoan, @Horus, @Kailash29792, @Lugnuts, @SNUGGUMS, @CodeTalker, @Teblick, @NinjaRobotPirate, @Erik and anybody else who is watching... please feel free to contribute some answers to this interview :). Tom (LT) (talk) 01:31, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

• If I did partake in this (currently undecided), then I'm not sure whether to post my answers here, on the linked subpage, or some other place. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 01:50, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
  • If you do decide to respond (please do!) then just respond to whichever questions you would like on the sandbox link above.Tom (LT) (talk) 21:45, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

  Any thoughts on responding now, SNUGGUMS? Tom (LT) (talk) 23:37, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

• My final answer is no. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 00:38, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

• • Tom (LT), thanks for the invite. however, i have to decline the request. I don't actively partake in this project. I do use the works and resources listed here as references to help improve BLPs of Singaporean artistes though. – robertsky (talk) 09:59, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Episode numbers on Wikitable

I can't seem to find a guideline that confirms this or not. WP:FILMOGRAPHY is all I have to go by. Per WP:FILMOGRAPHY, if an actor only appears in one or two episodes of a show, we should add the episode title(s) to the Wiki table's notes column as "Episode: Example" or "Episodes: Example/Example", but if they have more than 2 episode appearances, it should be listed as "4 episodes" or "10 episodes"? Am I interpreting this correctly? Or are we also allowed to write it as "episodes 1,4,9,17,28" etc. Armegon (talk) 11:32, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

If it's one, two or possibly three episodes, you should list the episode titles (basically) as per WP:V – e.g. "Episodes: "The Strangers", "The Dove" " (with, or without, links to relevant episode, season, or LoE articles). If it's less than "recurring" status, you can put "3 episodes (season 3)" or "4 episodes (season 4)" – it should not be Episodes #1.3, 1.5, 1.7 (as per WP:INDISCRIMINATE): either do episode titles, or "3 episodes". More that 4 or 5 episodes, and the role is considered recurring, and you put "Recurring role (season 2)" or just "Recurring role" if the role lasted throughout a TV series. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 12:26, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Heading capitalizations

There is a discussion on Talk:Nicole Kidman (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs) that concerns a MOS guideline and many other actors and filmmakers' BLPs. WP:SECTIONHEAD says that to follow all the guidance for MOS:AT, which tells users to follow sentence case [...] except where title case would be expected were the title to occur in ordinary prose. Due to this, is it inappropriate to write "2016–present: Resurgence and Big Little Lies"? Or should "present" be capitalized instead of "resurgence"? Or should "present" and "resurgence" both be lowercase? Thanks! KyleJoan^talk 02:45, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

I don't know about that specific discussion, but "2016–present: ..." type headings should never have "present" capitalized IMO – that would look horrible, and is contrary to MOS:HEADCAPS (and MOS:DATERANGE) IMO. That said, there are ways around this: "Since 2016: Resurgence and Big Little Lies" would be a viable alternative section header. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:07, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

"Since 2016" sounds great, actually. Thanks, IJBall! That said, the disputed capitalization of "resurgence" would remain in the suggested phrasing. I personally don't see any issue with it, but it seems some users do. KyleJoan^talk 04:24, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

"Present" not being a proper noun, "2016–present" would never have "present" capitalized, as per sentence case and given MOS:HEAD. —Joeyconnick (talk) 16:20, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

A Task

Hello! Anton_Corbijn#Filmography has a split proposal for the filmography dating from 2017, and I was wondering if anyone here wanted to take up that project. If not, please ping me back and I'll remove the split tag. A. C. Santacruz ⁂ Talk 14:11, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

I have removed the 'split' tag – no Talk page discussion was ever started on the proposal, and it's 4 years stale. FTR, I would oppose a split here – the Filmography is not unduly long. However, the Filmography is improperly formatted, with massively incorrect use of roswpan (and WP:OVERLINKing), so that should be fixed. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:21, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks IJBall A. C. Santacruz ⁂ Talk 14:50, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Consensus for mass changes of "actress" to "actor"

Is there a consensus for changes like this one, to change every instance of the word "actress" to "actor"? This is an edit by Tony1, who is also performing page moves like this (actress to actor). – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:14, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

IMO, the answer is no. That would have to be a sitewide WP:RfC on the question (and I'll personally be an "oppose"). And the page moves should be reverted as undiscussed and contrary to WP:STATUSQUO. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:53, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I oppose "actress"-to-"actor" changes in general, but especially when they are made with no seeking of consensus. Eddie Blick (talk) 23:41, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

So who is willing to take on the mass revert of these no-consensus edits? (Note: not all edits in that list involve actresses, so not all of them need reverting.) – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:46, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Citations that no longer support cited material

What should an editor do about a citation that does not support the cited content in an article? For an example, see Jean Smart. A citation (number 2 as I write this message) titled Jean Smart- Biography is used nine times in the article. I assume that at some point a Yahoo! Movies article contained the information cited, but now the link leads to a page that contains nothing about Jean Smart. Unfortunately, the citation does not contain a link to an archived copy of the article.

The current link is not dead, but it is useless for documentation of the article's content. Should it be deleted or marked in some way? This citation is not unique in that regard. I have seen other Yahoo Movies! citations that led to unrelated pages at Yahoo! Eddie Blick (talk) 00:10, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Copy the link to archive.org and find the archived page. Then add the archive-url and archive-date to the article. More info at Help:Archiving a source. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:39, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Jonesey95. I was not aware of that technique. I saw your addition of the archive link on the page, and I appreciate it. Eddie Blick (talk) 00:51, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Music videos

Should music videos be listed under Filmography section or under Videography section. While the meaning may be the same, they are used separate in Wikipedia. In addition, should music videos follow WP:FILMOGRAPHY table example where Year column is first, followed by Title column or the opposite as currently music videos listed under Videography follows the latter while music videos listed under Filmography follows the former. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 04:59, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

In situations like this, I always like to consider how it is being done in similar articles. My first point of call will be to look at articles of directors that have directed both films and music videos or actors that have featured in both music videos and films, from that I will be able to know the thinking of other editors. If I am not satisfied with how they are thinking then I will attempt to establish a consensus through RFC or something.HandsomeBoy (talk) 08:55, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

@HandsomeBoy Upon looking up WP:FL, majority of the list articles for actor/actreess follows WP:FILMOGRAPHY table example. Whereas for singer-actor (probably out of scope) uses Title first followed Year column styling. Hence, I'm confused on which to follow and take reference from. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:46, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Let's separate the Filmography section and the Videography section. Obviously, Filmography is for films only and not for the music videos. In filmography also doesn't include television shows / appearances, only films should be included, that is in the dictionary "a list of films by one director or actor, or on one subject". I don't know why they always combined the films and tv appearances in the filmography section. Music Video and other videos must be under the section of videography and not filmography. clipred (talk) 12:00, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

@Clipred Imo, music videos should be included within filmography section for actor/actress. Whereas, for singer-actor, music videos should be separated to dedicated videography section while retaining filmography section for film, television series/shows, video games, etc given that majority of the singer-actor list articles uses Title first column styling whereas majority of the actor/actress list articles uses Year first column styling. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:14, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

That is clearly not true – on Wikipedia, 'Filmography' sections nearly always include any "filmed", or even "broadcast", works. Generally, it includes everything that's not 'Stage'. One editor's crusade against this not withstanding, the current consensus has always been this... As to the specific question, I generally despise the way WP:DISCOGRAPHY does all of their tables, so if given the choice, I would say – go with the superior 'Filmography' table format. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:50, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Isa Briones name in lead section

I posed a question about removing the phrase "known professionally as Isa Briones" on the talk page for actor Isa Briones, and I had a brief discussion with Nikkimaria, which can be seen here: Talk:Isa_Briones#Name_in_lead_section. They stated that "Isa" can considered an unusual short form of the name "Isabella". In cases of uncommon nicknames, they are "usually presented between double quotation marks following the last given name or initial" (quote from MOS:PSEUDONYM) as with pages for actors/celebrities Meryl Streep, Jodie Foster, Kit Harington, Tina Fey, Gigi Hadid, and Bunny Berigan. Should Briones's name in the lead section be edited in accordance with the Manual of Style, or be left as is?

Our conversation has stalled, so I'm posting here so other editors can weigh in. Thanks! Dog Starkiller (talk) 18:51, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Signpost interview

Hi everyone. Just a reminder that hopefully we'll be getting an interview with some of the members from this WikiProject in this month's signpost. Anyone is welcome to contribute. The draft is here: Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Next issue/WikiProject report. Tom (LT) (talk) 05:15, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Micachu → Mica Levi RM

Talk:Micachu#Requested move 5 November 2021 could use input from this project's participants. Nardog (talk) 10:29, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

WP:NACTOR

Hey lads and gals! , can you please help me with something? I making an article for an actress ( draft:Penny O'Brien ) It's still unfinished like it's 15% finished but i just want to ask all of ya will WP:NACTOR Stop me from finish it? I got every reference ready like the comic cons, the role in one of most selling games and also a complete filmography with movies to come up and also with references from neutral or news websites, so how WP:NACTOR will affect it? Thank you! Mac O'Donnell (talk) 15:02, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

@Mac O'Donnell:, best thing to look at is the kind of sources youre finding, are they all from reliable sourcing? Is the article about her or a just a mention? Can you find multiple sources that don’t say the same thing? If yes to that then build up her page per MOS and you can submit your draft for review. Hope that helps :) LADY LOTUS • TALK 02:54, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stephen Hogan

Article is Stephen Hogan. Borderline notability and AFD discussion is voluminous. Was deleted at AFD [1] and then creator went to DRV [2] and AFD was re-opened. Needs expert eyes. Softlavender (talk) 23:31, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Actors/actresses who have dual citizenship vs. their lead

When someone has dual citizenship then they are legally both, whichever countries they have citizenship in. I’ve seen leads say “XXX is a British-American singer” or “XXX is a Irish-American actor”. What’s the rule to follow on dual citizenship in the lead? Do you put it in the lead or do you only put where they were born? I tried looking it up but couldnt find any MOS on it. Any input is appreciated :) LADY LOTUS • TALK 02:50, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

I am also interested in the answer to this question.HandsomeBoy (talk) 12:25, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

You should never put, for example, "British-American singer" (basically, as per MOS:ETHNICITY) – the correct way to handle this "British and American singer" or "Irish and American actor" (e.g. Kristine Froseth). However, even this should only be done if the person is notable for work in both countries. If, for example, someone was born in the UK, but lived nearly their entire life and did all of their notable works in the U.S., the lede should really only say "... is an American actor" in the first sentence, as in a case like this the dual citizenship is more akin to trivia, and is not important enough to include in the first sentence of the lede (though it may be appropriate to mention it later in the lede). I've sometimes seen articles do something like "Lebanese-born American actor", but even this construction is usually controversial. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:05, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

"British and American singer" might sound strange, but I agree it is the right way to go. If I get an American citizenship tomorrow, it should not automatically mean I am now "Nigerian American", it means I am Nigerian and also an American. Such qualifiers should only be used, when multiple sources use them or the subject describes him or herself as such. HandsomeBoy (talk) 13:24, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Streaming television vs Web series / Web drama

Hello everyone, can someone enlighten me the difference between these two? And how about original series release on a over-the-top media service, are they considered streaming television or web series? I am trying to work on a filmography article but I am not sure how to categorise them. Lulusword (talk) 12:13, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

This question would have been better asked in WT:TV. But the answer is basically this – web series are older (say, c.2005–2015) and tend to be "short-form" (e.g. 15-minute, or less, episodes), and were generally distributed "via the web" (which may include YouTube). "Streaming TV series" are anything that is basically indistinguishable from a "traditional" 30-minute or 60-minute TV series, and is distributed by one of the "mainline" streaming services (e.g. Netflix, Prime Video, Hulu, etc.). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:02, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. Lulusword (talk) 02:40, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Vesey Alfred Davoren up for deletion

• Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
• Vesey Alfred Davoren (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs|google) AfD discussion

Has a big filmography. Was a silent film star. Appeared in movies for five decades. Certainly there are obituaries. For search purposes, he appears best known as Vesey O'Davoren. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Should Filmography tables include "unreleased" works?

At Devon Werkheiser, I just reverted this addition because I think, in general, Filmography tables should focus on "released" (and therefore notable) works, and not on a role in a film that will almost certainly never be released – the latter belongs in prose, not in the Filmography table. Am I wrong, or is this the right call? Thanks. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:22, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

While I wouldn't treat unreleased as inherently not notable, I do think it's fair to wait until something has been released before one adds it to the table. We otherwise could have listings for projects that are scrapped entirely. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 17:53, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Agreed – in some cases, something like a TV pilot might be worth listing in a filmography table. But a film that is never released cannot really be considered a "notable work", though it certainly may be worth mentioning in sourced prose. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:24, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, they can (and in my opinion should) be added, but only if (1) they are already in filming (or post-production), and (2) there is a Notes column in the chart where it is stated that the film is in either production or post-production. If the film hasn't been released after a year or two after being in production it should be removed from Filmography charts. I feel it is relevant for actors and filmmakers to have these films in their charts because once a film is greenlit and being filmed, the chances are high that it will be released, and Wikipedia readers often look immediately to the Filmography chart to see what is (and has been) going on with their career. BTW, listing films that are already in production in Filmography charts is already standard Wikipedia procedure, so we shouldn't try to overturn that. Softlavender (talk) 23:11, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

@Softlavender: The specific example referenced involves a film in which production has been suspended, and is unlikely to ever restarted. This isn't an example of a film that is "filming" and is likely to be released – this is a film that has halted filming and will likely never be released. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:38, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

That wasn't the question posed by the header. If production has been indefinitely suspended without notice of when shooting probably will resume, then yes IMO that should be removed from a Filmography chart and noted in the body text. Softlavender (talk) 00:04, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Benny Safdie

I have proposed on Talk:Safdie brothers that a separate page for Benny be made, on account of his career beginning to expand beyond his filmmaking with his brother and including more solo acting ventures. Rusted AutoParts 00:24, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

What about Slavitza Jovan

Should Slavitza Jovan have an article she was in movies such as Ghostbusters, The Judas Project and Body Double and here are some sources to show her notability. [3] [4] , Shay, Don (November 1985). Making Ghostbusters, p. 177 annotation. New York Zoetrope, New York NY USA, ISBN 0918432685. Paragraph reads: "Attached to a wire rig, Slavitza Jovan prepares to launch herself into Gozer's double-flip - a maneuver completed later in post-production by a stunt double." , Shay, Don (November 1985). Making Ghostbusters, p. 179 annotation. New York Zoetrope, New York NY USA, ISBN 0918432685. Paragraph reads: "Evading the particle streams, Gozer does an impressive double-flip - executed by a stuntwoman and shot during postproduction at Entertainment Effects Group." , Dwanyewest (talk) 04:59, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Deleted at WP:AfD in January 2021. In this scenario, the correct course of action would be to try to recreate the article in WP:Draftspace, and then submit it to WP:AfC to have a more objective opinion as to whether the subject meets our notability guidelines. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 05:06, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

@Dwanyewest:, per IMDb she only has 10 credits with over half only having names like “saleslady” in Body Double, “woman butler”, and “twisted nurse”. Doesn’t seem to meet WP:NACTOR or WP:GNG but you can do what IJBall suggested about about drafting it and submitting it. LADY LOTUS • TALK 12:45, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Rowspans in filmography tables

Rowspans are allowed on filmography tables right? As I've seen on the recommendation section. Ctrlwiki • talk • 03:54, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Only in the 'Year' column, and even that is controversial (I personally oppose them in the 'Year' column as well, unless you are rowspanning 4–5 entries per year multiple times). But definitely not "inside" the table... Why do you ask? (And what 'recommendation section' are you referring to?) --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:04, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Project recommendation section on this page. Because, I added rowspans in an article, but an aggressive user don't agree on that, and he said, I must follow the WP:ACTOR, and I came here and I notice that the recommendation examples also follows the rowspan, what should I do? Ctrlwiki • talk • 04:15, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

@Ctrlwiki: Then I am genuinely confused, because WP:FILMOGRAPHY says Use of rowspan formatting in "Year" columns (ex. #2) is acceptable, but rowspan formatting should not be used in other columns, per WP:ACCESS. – IOW, rowspan can be used in the 'Year' column, but certainly not that it "must" be used. In this case, WP:STYLEVAR prevails, and you should defer to the editor reverting you, and try to build consensus for rowspan use at the Talk page if you feel that strongly about it. But my general advice is – if you try to add 'rowspan' to a Filmography table that doesn't have it, and are reverted, you should just let it go. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:35, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

American Horror Story

The anthology series American Horror Story has 13 seasons that are broken down into different themes per season (Cult, Coven, Freakshow, etc). I’ve noticed a trend on several of the reoccurring actors wikipedia filmographies that they have each season broken down by season as if it’s its own show, which is fine since they each have their own articles but alot of the actors have each character they play (sometimes multiple) given their own row and the show is rowspanned to accommodate each character. Like Sarah Paulsen’s AHS credits for example. In reality, the show itself doesnt break it down this way, it’s all under AHS and has 116 consecutive episodes and credits the actors for all the characters theyve played. It’s confusing to read and I imagine confusing for new editors to edit. Can we get a consensus on how this should read? I think its fine to do each season like it’s own show but only once with all the character names in one row, like my edit to Evan Peters. Thoughts? LADY LOTUS • TALK 13:38, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Personally, I'm not sure I have a preference – even the Sarah Paulsen example is using rowspan in an appropriate way. (The main issue with this format would be inappropriate use of rowspan.) I'm not sure there needs to be "one way" to handle this issue. The advantage of the former format is that it does avoid the "laundry list" of characters problem that the Evan Peters example has, which is something I don't like (personally, I think we should only list "main" or "primary" characters in filmographies – this is is especially an issue with voice actor filmographies...). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:45, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

I agree with the listing of characters as well, I would prefer only to list the main ones he’s credited with and then listing “various” after or something along those lines. LADY LOTUS • TALK 16:17, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Jean-Jacques Beineix

French director Jean-Jacques Beineix, director of Diva and Betty Blue, has died. Any help with sourcing would be appreciated. Thank you, Thriley (talk) 19:09, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Anjli Mohindra

Could someone take a look at Anjli Mohindra. I have twice removed unsourced date of birth per WP:DOB only to have it reverted twice. Latest version includes IMDB as a source, which, per Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#User-generated_content is not reliable. Thank you --76.14.122.5 (talk) 07:51, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Peer review for Robert Duvall filmography

Hello! I have requested a peer review for the filmography page of Robert Duvall. Since that page is for an actor, if anyone here is interested in commenting, I'd love any feedback. Trying to get it to FL status. Thanks! :) LADY LOTUS • TALK 14:54, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Troy Kotsur

Regarding the actor Troy Kotsur, there is a content dispute about covering his stage credits. Editors involved with theater articles are invited to comment here: Talk:Troy Kotsur#Problematic edits. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 00:33, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Julia Chan

An editor keeps adding Julia Chan's date of birth with only unreliable sources. Can someone from this project take a look? --76.14.122.5 (talk) 22:04, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Reverted as per WP:RS/IMDb and WP:Citing IMDb, with a personalized warning left on user's talk page. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:23, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! --76.14.122.5 (talk) 19:34, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately, unsourced or unreliably sourced dates of birth seem to be a way of life in many articles about living actors and actresses. I have removed many such dates, only to soon find them replaced, still with no reliable source. Eddie Blick (talk) 01:47, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Filmography section heading

There is a discussion at WikiProject Film about the use of "Filmography" as a section heading. The discussion can be found here: WT:FILM#Filmography section heading. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 17:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

RFC

There is a discussion at Talk:Jim Henson#RFC on Jim Henson Infobox that members might be interested in. -- Otr500 (talk) 21:10, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Julia Garner date of birth

I've removed unsourced date of birth from Julia Garner and replaced with sourced year of birth twice (latest is here: [5]) but have been reverted both times. Should this page be protected from vandalism? --76.14.122.5 (talk) 04:53, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

As as aside, it seems that unsourced dates of birth are rampant in Wikipedia. Is there any easier way of removing them other than a manual edit as I randomly encounter them? --76.14.122.5 (talk) 04:59, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Somebody provided a source (though I doubt it's a great one), but it only verifies the year-of-birth – I have adjusted the article accordingly... And, no – if you come across an unsourced WP:DOB, and cannot find a WP:RS for it, your only option is to (manually) remove it from the article. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 12:31, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Yet another Donald Trump RfC

There is a Donald Trump RfC at Talk:Donald Trump § RfC: Should the lead section have any citations? I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 23:37, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Actors lists at AfD

Hi. You may be interested in the following discussions:

• One
• Two

Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 11:44, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources

Main page: User:Headbomb/unreliable

I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like

• John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14. (John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)

and turns it into something like

• John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:00, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Kim Murphy (actress)

This BLP has no references and has had no substantive updates in over 5 years. It was tagged 3 years ago, but no-one seems to be involved in adding references or updating the article. What should be done? --76.14.122.5 (talk) 04:06, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

She was in the main cast of the UPN series Level 9 (TV series) – there should be sources regarding that show that mention her (but they are likely to be passing mentions only). Beyond that, it looks like she has no other significant roles (I doubt even the film Houseguest counts). Subject very likely fails WP:NACTOR. Article could be WP:PRODed now (it's technically a WP:BLPPROD right now with no sources at all). But likely safer to take it to WP:AfD if you want to make sure it gets deleted... But definitely looks like a valid WP:BLP deletion candidate. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 06:20, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Article issues

There are comments at Talk:Richard Pryor#Quotes some editors may be interested in. -- Otr500 (talk) 10:54, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Accents

There's an ongoing discussion on Talk:Christian Bale (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs) about sources' emphasis on his use of an American accent and the article's overall accent-related content. While the initial article-specific dispute has been resolved, a broader point about the appropriateness of writing that an actor has been noted to merely perform in a specific accent has lingered. I thought this might be of interest to this project's members. Cheers! KyleJoan^talk 14:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Aaron and Adam Weis assessment

Would some members of this WikiProject take a look at Aaron and Adam Weis and assess it for WP:NACTOR or WP:GNG? I'm not really seeing how the twin brothers meet NACTOR simply based on their "appearances" in the Top Gun films (over 30 years apart and they actually only appeared in the original Top Gun), but perhaps the release of Top Gun: Maverick has gotten them some sigcov that might help them meet GNG. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:25, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Actor v actress? (Comedian or comedienne?)

Apologies if this was previously discussed; I can't find it if it was. (Can't find it in the MOS either, but I have been known to miss these things.)

I generally refer to people who act as actors, regardless of gender identity. Same with comedians. An editor recently replaced "actor" with "actress" and "comedian" with "comedienne" in the Cariad Lloyd article. Is there anything beyond my own preference -- a policy or consensus - that would justify the revert? Thanks! JSFarman (talk) 18:05, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I cannot recall where, but I think "comedienne" has been largely rejected in favor of "comedian" based on due weight (meaning that "comedienne" is rarely actually used in most sources). As for actor vs. actress, I've preferred gender-neutral language too, but I think the last wide discussion indicated that as long as both "actor" and "actress" are used interchangeably by reliable sources, there is not much justification for widespread consensus to use just "actor" for both men and women. Maybe there can be specific cases where a female actor clearly prefers to be called an actor and not an actress, and Wikipedia can follow suit? Pinging SMcCandlish, since your name comes to mind when recalling such discussions, any specifics you can point us to here? (Feel free to ignore this request if you prefer.) Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 18:25, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I found WP:Comedienne, a RfC from 2014. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 18:32, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Amazing. Thank you! One revert down, one to go. Maybe. JSFarman (talk) 18:34, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't have any specific personal recollection of previous actor/actress discussions and results thereof, but there have been plenty of them. Just from the MoS pages alone:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?fulltext=Search+archives&fulltext=Search&prefix=Wikipedia+talk%3AManual+of+Style&search=actress&ns0=1
 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:44, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I have a really hard time searching these things - this is so helpful. JSFarman (talk) 18:48, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

My personal opinion is that actress should not be replaced in articles (if you write up a new article from scratch, then the choice is yours...), unless you can somehow show that the preponderance of sources refer to the subject as "actor" over "actress" (which is probably unlikely in most cases). The "comedienne" thing is different, based on previous discussions. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:06, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm going to change to comedian and hold off on actor until I can gather more info. I didn't write this article, but I wrote the article on her podcast, Griefcast, and in that article I referred to her as an actor and comic. Thank you! JSFarman (talk) 23:20, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

There is a slow edit war at Claire Danes (latest example). There has also been edit warring about the short description (currently "American actress (born 1979)"). The edit warring can be stopped but some guidance would be good! Is there anything recent in the links above? Anyone feel like starting an RfC either at Talk:Claire Danes for that particular article or maybe somewhere central for more general guidance? If central, I guess the outcome would be "it depends; discuss on each article"? Johnuniq (talk) 23:56, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately I do not see any precedent to write only "actor" for Danes, as I do not see any reliable sources stating that she prefers that. Outside of that preference, if reliable sources use it interchangeably, either can be appropriate. Looking for a recent article about Danes, Variety last year writes here of her as an actress. It may be a while yet for language to evolve. An organization like the SAG Awards write "Male Actor" and "Female Actor", but the Oscars and the BAFTAs still use Actor/Actress in a gendered manner, as do many other organizations. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 20:05, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Erin Moriarty (actress)#Requested move 31 August 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Erin Moriarty (actress)#Requested move 31 August 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 13:19, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Cross-post from Help desk: please evaluate this pattern of edits.

I'm not sure who should look at this. Does all of this activity make sense? Are these contributions valuable? -Arch dude (talk) 15:36, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

What is going on here?

Howdy. I've been noticing a lot of the same content addition edits lately by the same editor and wonder what is going on here? [6], [7], [8], [9], etc. Are all these "unrealized project" and "collaborations" tables added really necessary? I would ask the editor[10], but I do not know how to leave a message for an unregistered user. Hope I'm not trolling or being nosy, just curious. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 01:00, 4 October 2022 (UTC) Arch dude (talk) 15:36, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Peer review request

I've got a WP:PR open for Natalie Portman at Wikipedia:Peer review/Natalie Portman/archive1. Any comments welcome, thank you. -Kj cheetham (talk) 11:16, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Native titles

Is there anything wrong with putting native titles beside the English titles of films and dramas in an artist's page, and should they be removed? Noticed most articles for Chinese actors are formatted that way. Example: Peng Yuchang.

Did the earth run out of talent?

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:List of pornographic performers by decade#Did the earth run out of talent?.Guilherme Burn (talk) 16:20, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Filmography table

For movies that don't have an English article, is it appropriate to do as below? Or how should I interlink it? Listing the title as "Robbery (2016 film)" seems odd, but I don't know how to hide the parentheses part using the interlanguage link template. Please let me know what is the most appropriate format. Thanks.

Year	English title	Role	Ref.
2016	Robbery (2016 film)

Should I do as below instead? It should look better.

Year	English title	Role	Ref.
2016	Robbery

--TerryAlex (talk) 22:17, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

This challenged me for a bit! I would do it this way:

• Robbery
• Underlying code: ''{{ill|Robbery (2016 film)|lt=Robbery|zh|老笠}}''

Thanks, Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 22:32, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks!!! TerryAlex (talk) 22:37, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

I agree – that's the best way to handle this. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:10, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Claire Foy

At one time, I read a section on this talk page that discussed the inclusion of theatre credits under the section heading "Filmography." My recollection was that the general outcome of that discussion was that if a "Filmography" included theatre credits, either the "Filmography" section heading should be renamed to something more inclusive, or that the theatre credits should be pulled out from under "Filmography." I do this occasionally, when I happen upon articles in which "Theatre" is included under "Filmography". I did this most recently at Claire Foy, but my edit was reverted, without any real reason.

I have two questions:

1. Was such consensus reached, or am I misremembering? If it was reached, where is the discussion? If there was no consensus, I'll stop making those types of edits.
2. Was my edit of Claire Foy justified? If so, could someone revert the revert?

Thanks 76.14.122.5 (talk) 04:17, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Not sure whether such a consensus was reached, but either way I feel your change was justified as this is most certainly a different field from TV or movies, even when all three involve acting. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 05:40, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

It is disingenuous to put theatre credits under a "Filmography" section. I have looked into the definition of filmography, and the real world uses it overwhelmingly for films only. So even TV credits do not belong. "Filmography" is improperly used all over Wikipedia, especially with many actors having TV credits. I find this a mimicry of IMDb's vestigial use of the same heading even for TV and video-game credits. (Not to mention, IMDb stands for Internet Movie Database, and obviously it is more than that now.) Better section headings would be "Credits", "Acting credits", "List of credits", "List of performances", etc. We can be creative and break past a bad practice. Claire Foy should most definitely not use "Filmography". Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 14:30, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

'Stage' work definitely doesn't belong under 'Filmography' – it should be a separate section. I definitely do not care for the change to Claire Foy – 'Theatre'/'Theater'/'Stage' should be a separate section regardless. Also, not sure why some people still have a problem with putting TV credits under 'Filmography' – the term is generally understood to include all filmed and broadcast works. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:34, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

"the term is generally understood to include all filmed and broadcast works." This is your POV and does not match the real world. As the well-sourced article for filmography shows, it is repeatedly defined as a list of films. I've looked at other dictionaries and found this to be consistently true. Wikipedia has been screwing this up for a long time, and like I said, likely because it just copied IMDb's unchanged approach. With that being the case, it is a violation of WP:STRUCTURE, "Pay attention to headers, footnotes, or other formatting elements that might unduly favor one point of view or one aspect of the subject..." The overemphasis on film has shoved all non-film credits under this media's label. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 14:43, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

The only thing that matters is – "Is it confusing to our readers?" The overwhelming answer is "No!" Any reader can look at the TOC and know what is in a 'Filmography' section. (Also, language "evolves", for better or worse.) I don't understand the movement to replace it with headers that are, frankly, clunkier.... Regardless, I feel pretty strongly that 'Stage' should always be it's own section, regardless. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:50, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you to all who replied! I now have a source to point to in future. --76.14.122.5 (talk) 23:27, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Mark Rezyka

Did Mark Rezyka die on 12 January 2017? I have carefully checked the history of that page, an IP user added this without any citation, and I couldn't find any other sources about whether he died or not. I have removed such information, but waiting for more discussions. Lemonaka (talk) 04:07, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Navigation templates grouping individuals

We need to address navigation templates that group individuals, such as the ones that list all winners of a particular cast or crew award. These templates are disadvantageous in the following (from WP:CLT):

1. On the other hand, may not give the reader enough clues as to which links are most relevant or important when this would not be controversial
2. Can take up too much space for information that is only tangentially related
3. Includes the full list of links in every article, even though often many of the links are not useful in some of the articles

For example, if a director wins a directing award, we already link to that award in the article body, typically the "Accolades" section. A navigation template repeats this link and names all other winners of that award. If this is allowed to be taken to its maximum conclusion, a film director that has won numerous directing awards would have dozens of directing-award templates with hundreds of other directors' names in the footer. We should avoid that bloat because readers can click on the directing-award links in the article body if they want to know more about the award and who else won it. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 15:07, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Credits, not Filmography

Before this month, IMDb changed the "Filmography" section heading that it has used for film, TV, and even video games. Now it uses "Credits" for the section heading. This, coupled with the fact that filmography is universally defined as a list of films, we should strive to move away from using "Filmography" section headings in Wikipedia articles unless all credits are only film-related. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 22:36, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

My response is – Who cares?! If someone changes the heading to "Credits" or "Work" in an article somewhere, I'm not likely to revert it. By the same token, I think any "organized" effort to do that is an insane waste of time over something that is incredibly trivial, and is not actually confusing to readers. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Why don't you care? It's an incorrect use of the term and shown in the fact that IMDb changed it. There is not even any WP:CIRCULAR going on in which IMDb and Wikipedia's predominant use of this approach has influenced any definition in the real world. It's an in-house bad style choice by way of tradition, and not all traditions need to be preserved. I don't plan to actively make changes in a widespread manner, but if it comes to a WP:3O content dispute involving non-film work, "Filmography" shouldn't win the day. I'd support a WP:BOTREQUEST to make the change, though, to resolve this matter completely. If IMDb did it, Wikipedia can do it. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 23:41, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

I'd oppose a bot request. If editors want to do it on an ad hoc basis, that's up to them. I am certainly not joining in that effort, for all of the reasons I've outlined above, and before. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:52, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Streaming television

As the name implies, streaming shows should come under "Television performances" right? Not a new section titled "web series" as most Indian filmographies do, declaring cable television and streaming television as separate media, and referring to the latter -- incorrectly -- as "web series". As an Indian myself, I do not think this is vernacular/dialect but a grammatical error caused by ignorance. Kailash29792 (talk) 18:51, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Correct. "Web series" are a different category – basically 2000–2015 era productions that were delivered/released mostly via the web (directly) and which were usually "short form" (e.g. 20-minute or less "webisodes"). These days, if it's released via a steaming company (via an "app"), it's pretty much considered a "regular" TV series, just like those on broadcast or cable television. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:47, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Great! So can a permalink to this discussion be created as a means to enforce streaming series are not sent to a separate section from cable series in filmographies? And ensure all articles erroneously titled "ABC (web series)" are renamed? Or at least write in this article not to segregate streaming series from cable ones? DareshMohan and Ab207, looks like we got support. Kailash29792 (talk) 05:18, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Foreign language titles

I am working on filmography table at Jee Seok-jin's article. A lot of his works do not have full English title or alternate English title, so I kept them in transliteration of Korean language, following the revised romanization of Korean spelling. Currently, I displayed them like this.

List of former programs

Year	Title	Role
1994	Cheongchunsidae Yeolrinmadang	Host
2006–2007	Wigitalchul Number One	Host
2007–2008	Jinsil Game	Host

Is it okay or should I displayed the original spelling and translation next to the titles like this

List of former programs

Year	Title	Role
1994	Cheongchunsidae Yeolrinmadang (Korean: 청춘시대 열린마당, lit. 'Youth open courts')	Host
2006–2007	Wigitalchul Number One (Korean: 위기탈출 넘버원, lit. 'Emergency escape number one')	Host
2007–2008	Jinsil Game (Korean: 진실게임, lit. 'Truth Game')	Host

Or should I remove the notations altogether? Lulusword (talk) 14:13, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Personally, I think it's better to leave the additional info as 'notes', as in the first example. The second way makes the table look "cluttered". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:25, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the advise, I will leave it as it is. Lulusword (talk) 17:04, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Notes

Disambiguation of links to Sanjana

Could you help to disambiguate links to Sanjana? There are 12 articles with links shown in this list. Most seem to be Indian films but it often unclear which of the actresses the link should point to. Any help appreciated.— Rod ^talk 17:02, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Question about film credits

Just came across an IP who seems to be in a mission to add voice acting (VA)/dubbing credits into the articles of multiple Mexican actors and celebrities, while I know this is normal practice for English-speaking actors to include VA credits in their filmographies, I'm not sure if this is also allowed for actors from other countries who have VA in languages other than English (afterall, this is enwiki). And if this is allowed, we would then have to start adding VA credits for any celebrity of any nationality who has done VA in any language?

My personal perception was that you could maybe mention these credits in their Career section rather than add it to the filmography, I couldn't find any relevant guidelines in WP:FILMBIO -Gouleg🛋️ ^harass/_hound (she/her) 20:25, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

100% allowed in filmography tables when voice acting credits are just as valid to include as live-action roles. Nationality is irrelevant here. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 22:45, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

I would make a distinction here: voice acting ("native language") credits, like starring roles in animated movies and TV are certainly fair game to include in filmographies; I'd say it's less clear if it's just a "dubbing" role – e.g. a Spanish-language dub for Mexico for an English-language movie or TV show. I personally have never removed the latter, but I think an argument could be made that they are too minor a role, like a lot of short films, that they don't belong in the filmography table itself. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:03, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree. There are a lot of Indian voice actors where the bulk of their work is dubbing to all the major languages spoken on the subcontinent. I seem to recall some recent pushback on long lists of dubbing credits there, but that might be limited just to a particular article. There was someone I called the "BenQ" vandal (who might actually be WP:LTA/VCV) who would go around and place unsourced or weakly-sourced English dubbing casts for Japanese animation/anime with a section title like "BenQ/English dub" implying that BenQ was producing or sponsoring the dubbed versions. So, insisting on reliable sourcing to verify is going to be key to avoid these sorts of shenanigans. — Archer1234 (t·c) 01:08, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Would like to add that there is another, perhaps more prominent than enwiki and maybe even Spanish Wikipedia, website that focuses on Spanish dubbing which is Doblaje Wiki. My opinion is that the existence of Doblaje Wiki could justify that there is no real need to add dubbing credits into the filmographies of some actors. Maybe we could go on a case-by-case basis if the actors played a prominent role in the dub (such as lead) and/or their participation in that dub is deemed relevant by WP:RS -Gouleg🛋️ ^harass/_hound (she/her) 16:44, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Sounds like this site would be a candidate to add to the 'External links' section (though its being a wiki is probably problematic) – but with that site in the 'EL' section, you definitely would not need to add dubbing credits to the filmography table... But there definitely should be a distinction between voice actors starring in a native-language production (or bi-national co-production), and those who are just voice dubbing the same roles for non-native language viewings IMO. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:49, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree that there is no issue when actors star in the voice cast of a native-language production and totally belongs in their filmographies. But I really think we should be selective on whether to add their participation in a dub of a non-native language or not. It's less relevant to know an actor had a small participation in a dub versus an actor voicing a main character in that dub (i.e. Eugenio Derbez as Donkey).

Doblaje Wiki encompass the dubbing credits for a lot of productions in the Spanish language; I'm not advocating for this site to be added to the EL section, but rather as how this site works complementary to eswiki (and enwiki) for the area of dubbing, therefore rendering unnecessary the addition of these dubbing credits in the filmographies of actors who have an article in enwiki -Gouleg🛋️ ^harass/_hound (she/her) 16:29, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Jim Henson

Jim Henson has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 15:48, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

John Stuart Scott

Would someone from this task force take a look at John Stuart Scott? Someone whi might be the subject of the article was asking about it at WP:THQ#Editing my personal Wikipedia Page. (MaterialScientist denied changes. and they might be trying to update the article. I did some very rudimentary cleanup, but there seems some room for expansion. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:33, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Does WP:FILMOGRAPHY apply to stage performances (plays, musical theater)?

Does WP:FILMOGRAPHY apply to stage performances (plays, musical theater)? Keeping in mind WP:CRYSTALBALL, at what point could a "future" (i.e., planned) performance of a play or musical be added in a performer's biography article to a table of stage performances? For films, WP:FILMOGRAPHY advises not to add an entry until filming has begun. What would be the equivalent, if any, for stage performances? A few things come to my mind that might be used include a formal announcement for the production having been made, rehearsals having begun, the theater where production is to be performed confirming it (e.g., lists it on its schedule), tickets are on sale, etc. Obviously, source(s) also would need to be cited to verify that the performer has a role in the production. I did a cursory review at WP:MUSICALS but did not find anything relevant. — Archer1234 (t·c) 17:13, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

To my knowledge, no standard has been formally established for stage roles, though it would be helpful to have one as we could otherwise end up with shows that get scrapped before their planned dates or have cast members drop out at some point. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 18:04, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

In WP:TV, for example, we generally don't publish Wiki articles on new TV series until they have a confirmed start/premiere date (which, ideally, should be an exact date, rather than "Fall 2023"). I would think something similar should apply to stage shows – they don't become "real" until an actual theater has announced a premiere date for when the show will be staged in front of an audience. Prior to that, I would think a stage show would effectively be in "pre-production", and thus would fail WP:CRYSTALBALL. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:48, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Important note: 'Stage'/'Theater' does not belong under 'Filmography' – if there is and article with a table of 'Stage' performances, and a 'Filmography' section, 'Stage' should be put in its own section, not "under" 'Filmography'. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:02, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Quite true; those are separate entities. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 21:02, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

I do notice this a lot, where theatre credits are lumped into the “filmography” section. For performers who do both, isn’t a better section heading “credits” (as seen at Kristin Chenoweth) rather than Filmography (as seen at Janet McTeer).

On the subject of the original question, I’d suggest for theatre productions the time to add into the credits section should be once the production has stated previews. Mark E (talk) 23:23, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree that after the production starts previews is a sensible time to add the credit to the table. Up until that time, it is very possible for a stage production to be cancelled, as nearly all of them were in March 2020. BTW, the tables should not substitute for good narrative text. If a role is important in an actor's career, it should be mentioned in their career section (and possibly also in their reception section), perhaps with an indication of why it was important to their career. If the credits/filmography are very long, consider moving them to a sub-aritcle. -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:18, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Also, how should entries for future scheduled national tour dates be handled? Here's an example at Jason Forbach. Is this fine as it is, or should the future dates be excluded until actually performed? — Archer1234 (t·c) 17:07, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

In my opinion that list is ridiculous and should just list the tour and not the stops. Mark E (talk) 16:41, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Agree – an article about the tour itself can list all the stops. An article for an actor absolutely does not need that level of detail! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:53, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Also agree. Way too much detail. Also, it doesn't matter that he announced something on his instagram. Either he played a role or he didn't. Focus on that. Also, if he got a review in a reliable publication, say what the reviewer thought of his performance. -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:07, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Well I edited it and it’s been edited back. Still far to much detail in my opinion but not something I’ll be getting into an edit war over. Mark E (talk) 13:41, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

It seems likely to me that User:Blueflash4 has a probable WP:COI – I think this should be dealt with via those means. In any case, I have reverted the WP:CRYSTALBALL content. If it gets restored again, I think this editor should be reported, possibly for WP:COI. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:35, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Deborah Kerr

Deborah Kerr has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 00:28, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Is this detail about his first performance WP:DUE for the body of Laurence Olivier?

See this discussion on the talk page.

In December 2022, I added (underlined): his first stage appearance was in a sketch called The Unfailing Instinct at the Brighton Hippodrome in August 1925. He tripped and fell on his face during the performance. Today, a user removed these 10 words with the edit summary: trimming unencyclopaedic trivia.

Here are all the high quality sources which describe this event and how it impacted Olivier's career:

Donald Spoto's 1941 biography (page 44): After four weeks on tour with this trifle in Manchester, Liverpool and Brighton, his salary of two pounds was slightly augmented when he was asked to be assistant stage manager and play the silent policeman in a melodrama, The Ghost Train, in which ‘Miller had scored a great success in London. No such success was Olivier’s: the Brighton drama correspondent alluded to him only to note his unintentionally dramatic entry onstage.. Heedless of the stage manager’s warning about the set’s raised doorsill, Olivier reduced a tense scene to giddy farce as he tripped, sliding precariously toward the footlights. He fared no better in his next employment..." Anthony Holden's 1947 biography (page 326): Twenty-two years his junior, Joan Plowright was young enough to be Olivier's daughter, precisely the role she played at the Palace Theatre, taking over the part of Jean Rice from Dorothy Tutin....Though she too was married - to the actor Roger Gage - there followed a "euphoric" progress through Glasgow, Edinburgh and Oxford to the Brighton Hippodrome - the scene of Olivier's first professional stage entrance, flat on his face, over thirty years before." John Cottrell's 1975 biography (page 34): "That summer Olivier made his first professional stage appearance since leaving drama school, and he literally fell flat on his face. The occasion was a sketch called Unfailing Instinct, put on as a curtain- raiser before a Brighton Hippodrome production of Arthur Ridley's new play The Ghost Train. Again and again the eighteen-year-old novice had been warned about the importance of lifting his feet as he came on stage via a door built into the scenery on a wooden base. It made not a dime's worth of difference. On the cue for his entrance he stumbled stupidly into the base of the door frame and plunged head- first into the footlights with sufficient impact to earn his first, brief notice as a pro: "Mr. Laurence Olivier made a good deal out of a rather small part." Francis Beckett's 2005 biography (page 16): "[His first performance was also] one of the most dramatic: he fell headlong, his face coming to rest in the footlights. There was a torrent of laughter from the packed house, and when he eventually left the stage, they gave him a round of applause." Terry Coleman's 2006 biography (Pages 25, 485): "The first time he appeared on stage as an actor, in public, was at the Brigthon Hippodrome at a charity gala at the beginning of August 1925, and it was in music hall, and he fell flat on his face...Olivier was in the one straight act of the evening, a short curtain-raising sketch called The Unfailing Instinct."" It's also mentioned prominently in this New York Times review of Olivier's 1985 Autobiography Confessions of an Actor: "In 1925 he made his first appearance on a professional stage, on a variety bill in Brighton, and he made his entrance by tripping over the sill of a door in the scenery. He sailed through the air right into the footlights, and the accident provoked the largest laugh he has ever received in his life as an actor."

The user who removed (User:SchroCat) has further said: We are not writing a book-length biography, we are writing a summary of his career.

Is this information DUE inclusion? Please participate at the discussion linked above. Thanks. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 17:52, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Game show / talk show appearances

This version of the article of actress Poornima Indrajith has a table of "Other shows" that is primarily game show / talk show appearances. I thought there was consensus not to include those sorts of appearance unless there is something notable about the appearance, in which case it is better handled in prose. But I have not found anything. Do we have consensus or guidance on this?  — Archer1234 (t·c) 10:04, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

There is definitely a consensus against including simple talk show appearances. But (semi-)regular appearances on game shows, such as, say, Hollywood Squares, and so-called panel shows, are often included, and I don't think there is any consensus against that. However, those shouldn't be listed in a separate table. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 12:33, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Notice of RFC on Rod Steiger

For those interested, there's currently a RFC asking should the biography of Rod Steiger include an infobox? Thanks! Nemov (talk) 03:45, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Discussion regarding Gordon Willis

Left a query about the famous cinematographer's years active infobox parameter right here on his talk page. As those discussions can often be missed by most editors, I figured I should leave a notice here to make sure it gets attention. Your responses are appreciated. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 04:18, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Input requested

A thread has been started at the talk page for Oliver Hardy (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) regarding recent edits. Any input will be appreciated. MarnetteD|Talk 23:20, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

It's unclear what the issue is. Is the current version of the wiki article as it should be? Softlavender (talk) 00:01, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Notice of RfC re Gene Kelly

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gene_Kelly#RfC_about_description_in_opening_of_article_and_infobox Coretheapple (talk) 15:00, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments

Quality assessments are used by Wikipedia editors to rate the quality of articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class= parameter to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project decides to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:37, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Film Actress Dorothy Dandridge’s Great niece/input

Hello all, hope this doesn’t come off the wrong way, someone said this was the best way to go about my goal. I am Kristin Clarke, the Great-Niece of film star Dorothy Dandridge (the first woman of color to be nominated for an Academy Award). I am a Screen and Theatre actress as well and have been in several movies which can be found here https://m.imdb.com/name/nm10205342/

Sorry for the long read, could someone advise me or would anyone be open to creating a Wikipedia page for me?

My aunt Nayo Wallace (also related to Dorothy Dandridge) is an actress, and has a Wikipedia page as well Nayo Wallace, because I’m proud of my family history I’d really love to be connected to them via Wikipedia as I continue our legacy and reach out to Casting directors, full transparency it would help a great deal in my career. 

Not sure how this works but I can provide proof. All advice is welcomed. Thanks guys & gals! Forever31245 (talk) 02:41, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

We would need more than just IMDb, which is a subpar citation to begin with. Creating a page on yourself would be inappropriate per WP:Conflict of interest. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 03:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Kk, thank you. Forever31245 (talk) 01:48, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

There's some advice and instructions at Help:Your first article. Unfortunately, it's difficult to write an article on someone before they're already famous. Our inclusion criteria requires existing media coverage. If you've had media coverage, you could try following the instructions in that link to submit a draft article and see what happens. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:57, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Okay that makes perfect sense, guess I’ll have to wait a while. Thanks for explaining this for me :) Forever31245 (talk) 01:47, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Discussion about reality TV players at WT:NBIO

I opened the discussion about reality TV players and WP:NACTOR at WT:NBIO. Link: Wikipedia talk:Notability (people)#Applying NACTOR to reality TV contestants. George Ho (talk) 17:32, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Jud Birza nominated for deletion

The article about Survivor: Nicaragua winner Jud Birza is nominated for deletion. Your input there is welcome. George Ho (talk) 02:30, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Filmography pages

Hello, I was working on some filmography pages. Especially when it was lengthy, and decently diversified credits (TV, Film, Video Games, stage plays, and Commercials).

I recently created a page for Stuart Whitman's filmography, which was immediately moved to draftspace for a lack of citations. So I did a minimum of several citations.

So I have two questions.

1. Did get this right a "Filmmography", or a "on stage and screen" page is legit when the subject has lengthy, and decently diversified credits?
2. While I should have had some citations to start the page, how much should a page have, and is it a legitimate move?

Filmman3000 (talk) 19:07, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure why that was rejected, as the draft has plenty of sources.

But if you are gong to do a Stuart Whitman on screen and stage article (draft), you should actually do separate sections for 'Film', 'Television' and 'Stage', and you should not do a "selected" version but should include all substantive roles. If Whitman didn't do much stagework (and I didn't check), then a more traditional "Filmography" page is appropriate.

On sourcing: It depends who you ask – in theory, any credited work is sourced to that work, with the credits for that work being the WP:Primary source for it (and thus it's verification). For 'Stage', it's a little more complicated than that, and you would want WP:Secondary sources to verify. But if you want to take something like this to WP:FL, they will require secondary sources (or possibly tertiary sources would be acceptable) for pretty much everything included. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:19, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@IJBall Thank you for replying. No the user who moved to draftspace for a lack of citations, did so when they were none. However looking at Withman who's an Academy Award nominee and and extremely lengthy career, she should have flagged the page not move to draft space.

Yes, you right regarding format. I would have to disagree with you on stage credits just so they are all in one place, even if very few are confirmed. I will try to have at least three stage credits confirmed. Filmman3000 (talk) 00:20, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

could only confirm two stage credits hahaha Filmman3000 (talk) 00:48, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Elliot Page § Former relationships and other recent revelations

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Elliot Page § Former relationships and other recent revelations. Marchjuly (talk) 05:27, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Question

Per WP:FILMOGRAPHY, should we not include the terms "Main role," "Supporting role," and "Lead role" in the "Note" section of the "Films" or "Television shows" Table? Should we only specify them when it is a Cameo or Special Appearance role? It just states to not list the number of episodes if it is a starring role, so I'm still a bit confused. And I do see articles where "Main role" or "Supporting role" is mentioned. So checking to be sure. Thank you.--TerryAlex (talk) 02:38, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

For TV series, it should be "Lead role" (only if titular role), "Main role", "Recurring role", and sometimes "Guest role", and these should always be noted (pretty much always without "episode counts") – esp. "main role", as this is directly from the "crediting level" of the TV series (for that matter, so is "Guest role"/"Recurring role").

For movies, this kind of info this should never be included ("lead" vs. "supporting" in films is mostly subjective, and generally unsupported by sourcing).

However "uncredited" can be noted for either, but only if supported by a secondary source (otherwise it should be excluded). "Cameo" for films is similar – this should only be noted if a secondary source actually calls it a "cameo" role... Hope this helps. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 02:48, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you!--TerryAlex (talk) 02:50, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

One other thing – I'm not sure this is at the "guideline" level here, but I think the consensus around here is that "Archive footage" (esp. if uncredited) should generally be omitted from Filmographies. General "talk show" (or "podcast") appearances should also be omitted. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 02:51, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Dolph Lundgren

Dolph Lundgren has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:01, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:Citing IMDb § Add "Self-verified on IMDbPro" to appropriate uses?

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Citing IMDb § Add "Self-verified on IMDbPro" to appropriate uses?. Nardog (talk) 01:20, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Input request

Members may wish to comment here as several actors and film makers have been the recipient of this award. The outcome could also impact other categories on awards in the arts by setting a precedent. All opinions welcome. See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 1#Category:Kennedy Center honorees.4meter4 (talk) 19:23, 1 July 2023 (UTC)