Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Archive 99

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AfD for La Marchande

Interesting AfD going on for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marchande, which is apparently a term used for women merchants in 1800s Louisiana. Lots of interesting historical sources to dig through for those interested in helping to find and weigh the depth of available sources. Suriname0 (talk) 05:27, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Mrs. Martin Beck

Louise Helms Beck, Mrs Martin Beck

Hi all. In going through the Special Tony Award recipients, one of the winners was a Mrs. Martin Beck. The wiki link on that page goes to the fictional detective Martin Beck on wikipedia. I'm guessing the woman in question must have been married to Martin Beck (vaudeville)? I did find an image of her at the Library of Congress https://www.loc.gov/item/2014712448/.4meter4 (talk) 13:26, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

The link is now to Louise Helms Beck and the WD item at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q107613128 --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:44, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Also search Louise Heims Beck. I'm not sure which one is more accurate but I have found it spelled both ways. --ARoseWolf 13:56, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

She's got a New York Times obituary: https://www.nytimes.com/1978/03/17/archives/louise-heims-beck-widow-of-the-producer-and-a-founder-of-american.html Gamaliel (talk) 14:48, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Here's another obituary. Calliopejen1 (talk) 16:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

And an article about her Tony. There isn't anything else out there at newspapers.com that I'm seeing... Calliopejen1 (talk) 17:00, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

This gives early life and educational info. SusunW (talk) 17:06, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

You all are amazing! Thank you so much for these.4meter4 (talk) 12:46, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Update, it looks like Heims is correct. In actually looking at the nyt obit in archive format, the paper printed in Heims. When it was translated over from print addition to online addition, a spelling error was made.4meter4 (talk) 03:02, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Booker Prize 2021

Hi all

Here is the Booker Prize long list, I've noticed a couple of names which don't have Wikipedia articles yet, my guess is they'll have enough references now because of their nomination

• An Island, Karen Jennings (Holland House Books)
• A Town Called Solace, Mary Lawson (Chatto & Windus, Vintage, PRH)

Thanks

John Cummings (talk) 10:31, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I just created a draft article for Karen Jennings. Any help would be appreciated. Thriley (talk) 20:25, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for starting. I've done a bit to help her along.--Oronsay (talk) 22:28, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Intersectionality works

Just an little note you might find interesting. I just happened to find a really good example of how the occasional/incidental intersection between this project and WikiProject Disability bears fruit. The list of directors of the (US) National Institute on Disability, Independent Living, and Rehabilitation Research includes three women out of a total of ten. There are biography articles about only the three women. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 06:45, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Three cheers for that! Innisfree987 (talk) 19:33, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

And minus three - I can't see anything to boast about in that - WP:NEUTRALITY. Johnbod (talk) 02:51, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Much better than the usual working of intersectionality where members of overlapping classes get doubly hidden. Under true equality, all classes would still sometimes be overrepresented and sometimes under, just because of random fluctuation. If you interpret neutrality as meaning that disadvantaged classes are placed under a glass ceiling that prevents them from ever being overrepresented, even occasionally and on a small scale, while not imposing those same limits on others, then you are still being biased and holding people back. Relatedly, for a smile, watch this video on deaf African-American and Indian-American women coming together to make a name sign for Kamala Harris (but as usual don't read the comments). At least one of the subjects of the video, Kavita Pipalia, might be notable as president of the California Association of the Deaf. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:37, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

A little behind-the-scenes on this one might be helpful. The list itself exists because I was recently writing a new article about Margaret Giannini, and realized the NIDRR article could use a list of directors. So I assembled one. The whole list, men's names and women's names, exists because of the interplay between WP:WIR and WP:DISAB. I sincerely hope that someone will write the articles on the seven men who have been director of the Institute, too. Penny Richards (talk) 23:37, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I am a candidate for the 2021 Board of Trustees election

As I disclosed on my userpage, I am a candidate for the 2021 Board of Trustees election, which is why I am sharing this information with you. The last campaign activity ("Meet the Candidates") is scheduled for August 1 @ 00:00 – 1:30 UTC; see here regarding how to join. There are 20 candidates and 4 open seats. See here regarding casting your vote during the voting period of 4-17 August 2021. Thank you for your consideration! --Rosiestep (talk) 19:41, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks for bringing this important event to our attention, Rosie. The profiles all make interesting reading, with candidates from around the globe. And I've learnt a new word, "to onboard". The examples from Merriam-Webster are from June and July 2021! Talk about innovation!--Ipigott (talk) 09:14, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Onboarding has been around since the 1970s, fwiw. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:11, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

• Yes the profiles were interesting reading! Ok this is good, getting closer to the voting period—I don’t want to lose track of it! Innisfree987 (talk) 20:55, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

That was very informative and I enjoyed reading every profile including the answers to the selected questions. I believe some of the questions were worded in a way that I found to be a bit of a trap but most answered well. It has helped me decide the four I feel would best represent the community. :) --ARoseWolf 14:43, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

ARoseWolf, note too that it’s ranked choice voting (specifically single transferable vote), so you can rank some backup choices as well if there were more than four you liked. I was happy about that; a number of great candidates! Innisfree987 (talk) 16:00, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987: So many amazing candidates! I was thrilled to see diversity when it occurred though the questions asked didn't really make room for diverse answers. I call them little nuggets (lol). If you are a Wikimedian then there are basic across-the-board beliefs about the projects that we all hold, at least publicly. So opportunities for diversity of ideas really comes in the "how to" category. It's about how to get from point A to point B. That is where I focused my attention because, otherwise, most of the answers were along the same lines. I also paid attention to the way candidates responded. Some required much longer and in-depth responses while others could be answered with fewer words. The longest answer is not always the best answer or as my grandfather liked to say "It doesn't take many words to speak the truth". I took that to mean that what is in the heart can be explained with fewer words when it is the truth. It also means you don't have to remember as much (lol). That is not to say that any candidate did not speak the truth but I am learning why my Papa always told me I have two ears, two hands, two feet and one mouth. I should listen, help, take action and do more than just talk. --ARoseWolf 16:27, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Also, I really didn't like the combating bias question. It painted the candidates in a corner. The very essence of Wikipedia is that it is not a battleground, it is a collaboration. I started out saying I wouldn't give any points to any candidate that stated "combat" in their response but that was a little too harsh as I can't blame the candidates when it is the framing of the question. That being said, I love one point Rosie brought out. We are all biased. That is not meant to offend anyone and I am truly sorry if it does but it is a reality that we all need to come to grips with. Our very lives revolve around our own personal biases created by our experiences and our conflict of interests with other human's is a fact of life. And let me say that not every bias is bad. I certainly don't want you to eat something you don't think tastes good simply because you want to remain bias free (lol). Addressing the healthy or unhealthy nature of our biases is critical but is a deeply personal journey. Education is important but experience is a huge factor. We should make Wikipedia and other WikiProjects as inviting to positions we oppose as to those we agree with when those views can be properly sourced but do so in a way that does not support any position. Easier said than done. Our biases are deeply rooted, most with reason, even not healthy ones. --ARoseWolf 16:54, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Rosiestep, I am confused, typical of wiki-stuff and my brain. You said voting is from the 4th to 17th, but going to the link, it says 18-31 August 2021. Also noted that the link to access the "voting start page" (3. Eligible voter is unable to vote, #2) is a redlink, so not accessible? Can you confirm the dates? SusunW (talk) 15:51, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

It appears that on 2 August 2021 the dates were changed from the 4th-17th to the 18th-31st. There wasn't much explanation in the edit summary but maybe its explained elsewhere. --ARoseWolf 17:06, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

SusunW See here for the announcement of the delay. --ARoseWolf 17:12, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you ARoseWolf. Now I can just get on with my stuff and not worry that I have missed it. SusunW (talk) 17:28, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

SusunW, I apologize. I should have given you all an update here when the postponement was announced to the candidates. My bad. Thanks, ARoseWolf for adding the update. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:22, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

No worries Rosiestep but we do want people to have the correct information, so I'm glad I was confused. LOL SusunW (talk) 20:42, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Lots of redlinks suitable for the indigenous editathon going on now

In addition to my standard list, I've fleshed out the article on the Sámi Grand Prix and created an article on the Áillohaš Music Award. Both of them have good lists of redlinks that can be used as a starting point if someone can't think of what to work on :) Also if anyone knows Catalan, User:Or8a has created some really good articles about Sámi musicians there that don't exist anywhere else. -Yupik (talk) 15:21, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

On a separate note: if anyone is comfortable trawling through Russian sites (libraries, sites related to Murmansk Oblast, etc.) I'm looking for more of the substantial amount of translation work that Anfisa Ageeva has done over the years. For some reason, Google doesn't show me results for these sites, so I've been going through library databases one-by-one, but I could use help finding more. -Yupik (talk) 15:24, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Sandra Bermann notable?

In coming across this article, which is entirely sourced to Princeton sources where she works, the article immediately stands out for relying on sources not independent of the subject. It's not clear if she would meet WP:SIGCOV or WP:NACADEMIC. I'm considering taking it to AFD, but thought I would ask here first in case the group is able to salvage it. Best.4meter4 (talk) 14:30, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

@4meter4: Very clearly meets NACADEMIC c.5 --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:34, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Also meets NACADEMIC c.6 for a couple of reasons, as President of the American Comparative Literature Association , and as Head of Whitman College. I think there's a problem with your understanding of NACADEMIC. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:37, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, I should have seen that. Usually we talk about publications and number of citations with academics at AFDs, but I hadn't considered the chair position criteria. Thanks for pointing that out. Regardless,as a BLP she needs some quality independent sources to meet our policy guidelines.4meter4 (talk) 14:40, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Agreed about the poor citations; & thanks for bringing it here first. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:44, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

BTW remember that if there's mention of a woman's spouse in her article, stick it in the spouse's article too. If it's good enough for her article, it's good enough for their article as well ;) -Yupik (talk) 15:28, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Another hat trick for PamD

PamD has done it again! The article Blanca Chancoso fits the categories for three of the August edit-a-thons; Women in Latin America contest, Indigenous women and Women's leadership & empowerment. Hooray :) WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 15:27, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, you're too kind! It's not one of my greatest, but I struggled to find inspiration for this month's editathons. I managed quite a few brief bios of Olympians, and I've chipped in a few "#1day1woman" (ie miscellaneous) contributions lately - there were a couple of redlinked women in the shortlist for the 2020 Wainwright Prize who are now both blue. But it was a fun little challenge to find a three-in-one again! PamD 15:42, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Women in Red's meetup "registration" process is mentioned

In case this is of interest to you, Women in Red's meetup "registration" process is mentioned here: meta:Campaigns/Foundation Product Team/Registration. --Rosiestep (talk) 21:27, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Pnina Lahav

Someone may want to give this one some attention. Was a smidge promotional but I presume we want a biography of her... Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:30, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Overview of projects supporting women

Thanks to the start made by ARoseWolf, we now have Wikipedia:Women in Red/Historical overview of projects supporting women. Additions and improvements are of course welcome. Over the course of the next few days, I'll try to contact some of the active participants in the projects listed in the hope that they can contribute further. I'll also try to include links from the Meta projects and a few of the others.--Ipigott (talk) 14:45, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Ipigott, great start! Perhaps someone would like to move it to Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Essays/Historical overview of projects supporting women in support of the naming convention of similar WiR pages linked here Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Essays? --Rosiestep (talk) 18:23, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps someone would like to add the Women in Red mainpages from other language Wikipedias (listed here, d:Q23875215) that aren't yet on the "Historical overview of projects supporting women" page? Rosiestep (talk) 18:32, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Rosiestep: Thanks for responding so quickly and making some interesting suggestions. That link to Wikidata is included in the intro but I think some progress could be made by improving Wikidata coverage itself. I also thought that for the EN Wikipedia, it might not be all that useful at this stage to include all the links to languages with non-Romanized spelling. We already have Russian and Hebrew which we thought were important. As for the article title, I thought as it was more of a list than an essay, it was more suitable attached to Sister projects than to Essays but if you disagree, feel free to rename.--Ipigott (talk) 20:20, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Ipigott, totally agree with what you're saying regarding non-Romanized spelling; I use URLs for those myself. As for the article title, okay with me to leave it as is, and link it wherever you think is best for findability. Rosiestep (talk) 21:59, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Ipigott, just thought of another naming option as this list exceeds the scope of WiR: Wikipedia:WikiProject Women/Historical overview of projects supporting women. --Rosiestep (talk) 22:03, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I'll begin adding from that list. --ARoseWolf 18:49, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I've added some already and contacted others for translations of some of the information. Ipigott, I don't mind continuing if it's agreed it needs to be included. Rosiestep, if you don't mind me mentioning, I see you are changing url's to wl's but every time I try to change one and follow the script it doesn't work for me. Not the first time I've not been able to understand how something works but I'd like to know so I can keep you from having to do extra work of having to run behind me fixing my errors. :) --ARoseWolf 20:32, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

ARoseWolf, I am so sorry, but I don't know how to easily explain it. Hoping someone else can do that? In a nutshell: this is info on interlanguage Wikipedias wikilinking (Spanish, Catalan, etc.) and this is info regarding wikilinking between sister project (Meta, Commons, Wikidata, etc. P.S.: when it's a non-Roman script, e.g. Hebrew, I, too, use the URL instead of sorting out the interlanguage wikilink. Rosiestep (talk) 21:52, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Rosiestep, I figured it out and fixed all of the remaining links. Yay!!! :) --ARoseWolf 01:36, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Rosiestep and ARoseWolf for all the useful additional work you have put into this. It is now really beginning to look like a complete overview. As for the naming, I think for visibility it's better to leave it under Women in Red. Over the next few days, I intend to link to it from several of the other projects mentioned, particularly the "Women" series. It might also be useful to include a link to it from the WiR invitation for September and perhaps mail it out separately in a message to our International list within the next few days, encouraging additions and suggestions for improvement. (Is this something for Rosie?) I hope Rosie, or Roger will be able to work it into your upcoming Wikimania presentation. It might be useful in connection with your plans for greater use of Wikidata in connection with women's coverage.--Ipigott (talk) 06:21, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

What a wonderful piece of work. I have been remiss in not contributing earlier but I see that it has "just grown". Its a useful address book too and it shows the many tentacles that permeate the #1 Education resource. I see that individual editathons were listed too so we need to mention the 50 plus by Ewan (might be there! its a very long list). We also missed Women in Antarctica which I was very pleased to see at the time as it showed we were on every continent. I'm very very proud that my name is listed among so many illustrious contributors. The virtual world will be less sexist than it might have been. Not brilliant... but so much better. Victuallers (talk) 11:22, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Victuallers, would you believe I was about to write you on your talk page and ask for your input. Sometimes I just get that feeling. It's hard to dismiss. Most definitely will add Antarctica. I'm on the opposite side of the world but gotta give my women of winter a nod (lol). If you can point me to the place where I can find some of Ewan's 50 plus editathons I will see what needs to be added. :) --ARoseWolf 14:40, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Is it unhelpful & lazy of me to add https://wp-sq.wikideck.com/Wikipedia:WikiProjekti_Women_in_Red here? Might be a thing missing from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Women_in_Red/Historical_overview_of_projects_supporting_women ? --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:16, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Tagishsimon, it is never unhelpful to add something we may be missing. Just follow the same template and add the info. This is a collaboration of all of us to catalogue as many projects as possible that support women and women related topics. :) --ARoseWolf 14:40, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Joan Ullyot

The New York Times published an obituary today for Joan Ullyot, an important advocate for women’s running. I created a quick draft for her. I will be away from Wikipedia for the rest of the day. Any help with the article would be appreciated. Thank you, Thriley (talk) 17:57, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! It's looking good. Added a fair-use image from 1982, and some refs from newspapers. Penny Richards (talk) 22:58, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Great DYK candidate. Innisfree987 (talk) 23:02, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Just nominated. Thank you everyone for your help! Thriley (talk) 16:14, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

CGP Grey and Tiphaine Raguenel

So, Youtuber CGP Grey just put out a delightful little video on the history of the name Tiffany, going all the way back to the Middle Ages. One of the notable people he discusses in the video is the astrologer Tiphaine Raguenel, who doesn't appear to have an article, though does have one on French Wikipedia. I thought someone might be interested in making a Draft:Tiphaine Raguenel.

The best sources I can find appear to be in book form and from about a century ago, surprisingly. Here's some to start:

• Chapter XLVI/ Madame Tiphaine Raguenel - The half brothers; or, The head and the hand, tr. by L. Lawford By Alexandre Dumas · 1859
• Black Mastiff By M. S. Coryn · 1933
• Famous people and famous places (3 pt. Pt. 1 previously issued as Famous friendships; pt. 2 as Romantic tales of royal palaces; pt. 3 as Notable women of our own times). By Famous people · 1883
• The United Service Magazine Volume 35 1907

I hope that helps. Silverseren^C 18:29, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Overseas territories - redlists?

Hello all! I've been trying to create some redlists for "sets" of Overseas Territories e.g. British, French - but not having much success. I'm basing what I'm doing on the country lists, but I need to substitute the property or P number for something that reflects the status of the territories e.g. country P-number doesn't need to work because they're not countries. (I think, I am guessing a bit.) I couldn't see them on the redlists, and I couldn't see a discussion in the archive, so I wondered if people might have suggestions here? @Tagishsimon:, @MarioGom: do you? Lajmmoore (talk) 19:40, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Would P31:Q161243:dependent territory work to start with and then narrow it down if you want ones tied to specific countries? -Yupik (talk) 20:02, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Country redlists are mostly predicated on a set of four 'country' properties, wdt:P27|wdt:P17|wdt:P495|wdt:P1532 - 'country of citizenship', 'country', 'country of origin' and 'country for sports'. Overseas territories are as noted not countries; so are not generally found in any of these bar the last, 'sports'.

Probably the approach would be to look at 'place or birth', 'place of death','work location' and 'residence' and evaluate whether any of these is within the overseas territory, in combination with the conventional countrylist approach. So that would mean something along these lines, but (sadface) it probably calls for a named subquery to prevent timeouts, thus:

SELECT ?item ?linkcount WITH { SELECT ?item WHERE 
{
  { ?item wdt:P19|wdt:P20|wdt:P937|wdt:P551 ?pobd_etc. # place of birth / death / work location / residence 
    ?pobd_etc wdt:P131* wd:Q34497.   # is within St. Helena
  }
  UNION
  {  ?item wdt:P27|wdt:P17|wdt:P495|wdt:P1532 wd:Q34497 . # various country properties which might point to St. Helena
  } 
  } } as %i
WHERE
{
  INCLUDE %i
  FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?wen schema:about ?item; schema:isPartOf <https://en.wikipedia.org/> . }
  ?item wdt:P21 wd:Q6581072 .
  ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q5 . 
  ?item wikibase:sitelinks ?linkcount .
}

Click here to launch the Wikidata query --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:19, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I created some and listed them at {{Women in Red missing articles by nationality}}. It seems they are missing in the general redlist index. See Bermuda. Unfortunately, it's hard to get them reliably. Usually sportspeople show up because country for sport (P1532), and less often, some other appear based on place of birth (P19).

As far as I know, there is no way in Wikidata to consistently get all current dependent territories. You can get a broad list with the following query:

SELECT DISTINCT ?item ?linkcount WHERE {
  ?item wdt:P31/wdt:P279* wd:Q161243 .
  FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q11514315 . }
  FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q3024240 . }
  FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q15661340 . }
  FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P576 ?dissolved . }
  FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P582 ?dissolved . }
}

Click here to launch the Wikidata query

but there are many edge cases and it includes many historical entities. Another approach is adding criteria for certain countries, like British Overseas Territories:

SELECT DISTINCT ?item WHERE {
  VALUES ?type {
    wd:Q46395
  }
  ?item wdt:P31 ?type .
}

Click here to launch the Wikidata query

but the structure of data for the United States, France or China is different. MarioGom (talk) 20:31, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Handbook of Tennessee

Do you all have those state source lists somewhere? If so, take Tennessee off. Totally unrelated to Women in Red, I found the Sam Houston bio entry that (IMO) negates all semblance of facts in that so-called Encyclopedia.

"Humiliated, he resigned the governorship and fled the state in disguise to join his Cherokee friends, by then resettled in Indian Territory in today’s Oklahoma. There, near the border with Mexican Texas, Houston took an Indian bride, became a trader and Cherokee citizen, drank, and fantasized about freeing Texas and becoming a millionaire. Fronting for New York financiers engaged in Texas land speculation, Houston crossed the Sabine River and settled in Texas in late 1832. He established a law practice in Nacogdoches, dabbled in politics, and plotted rebellion against Mexico."

Most of you probably don't know, but New York financiers (they stop short of saying "New York Jews") were not involved in the Texas Revolution. There were no millionaires in 19th Century Texas, and Houston wasn't there as a land speculator. There were no "land speculators", as Mexico issued colonization policies to encourage settlers. Houston didn't plan the Texas Revolution - it was in the works years before he arrived. The northern boundary of Texas at that time was San Antonio, not Oklahoma. The above paragraph is only part of the mis-information. I was going to suggest corrections, but the Handbook of Tennessee requires your email and phone number for that.

So, sorry for this rambling ... but if you have that encyclopedia listed in your resources, you might think about eliminating it. One can only imagine how much other misinformation is in that official Tennessee resource. The Tennessee project seems dead, or I would have posted this there. Now I'm starting to have doubts about other state online encyclopedias compiled by volunteers. — Maile (talk) 03:09, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Maile66, thank you and yikes. I assume it is the same encyclopedia from which this red list is drawn? Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by dictionary/Tennessee Encyclopedia? (Hard to say immediately as link is dead.) It’s probably ok to keep the red list, I would think, but maybe we should append a note that says the work itself was complied by volunteers and shouldn’t be relied upon as RS? We do have similar red lists for several more states... hmmm. Megalibrarygirl, have you any thoughts on this? Innisfree987 (talk) 04:23, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987 It probably won't hurt anything to get the names from that encyclopedia, as long as other reliable sourcing is used to compile the bio content. I've relied on other state volunteer-compiled encyclopedias, and never encountered anything as blatantly fabricated as this. Many of them list the sources they used to compile the data - Tennessee does not. However, I've only used those others as a basic concept of in individual's life, and rely on additional sources. I have never-ever before run across a state encyclopedia where any individual's bio is a complete fairy tale. I was just looking at the Handbook of Texas, and they have a form for reporting errors. They ask the individual's email and name, but nothing so invasive as requiring a phone number. — Maile (talk) 10:33, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree that even if the material in the Handbook is useless, it wouldn't be a bad idea to preserve the names taken from the various entries. There's likely to be other material out there that can be used to support their notability.

As for other state encyclopedias: I've had some experience over the years with the Handbook of Texas, and find it to be among the best such sources in existence. It's extremely comprehensive, neutral in its outlook, and well-produced. Same goes for the Encyclopedia of Virginia, whose only flaw is that it's currently far from complete. Again, though, it's extremely comprehensive and neutral in its presentation. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 15:49, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

The Handbook of Texas is my Bible. The difference, I guess, is that the Texas one is run by a non-profit and overseen by a board of directors. But even with that one, I double check any info I get from them. I also like the Encyclopedia of Arkansas, that is run by the Arkansas Library System. By and large, most of the state handbooks I've used are fairly reliable. Tennessee needs to have a better grasp on theirs, I guess. — Maile (talk) 16:03, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

In experience, the Handbook of Texas is rigorously checked and updated as needed. I know a few historians who have contributed to it. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 14:28, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Women in Bollywood

Can anyone recommend some good reference sources for women in Bollywood? I'm going to work on Zubeida with someone who is personally knowledgeable but we need some proper RSes to cite. Thanks. Gamaliel (talk) 18:27, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Not at all my specialty but ProQuest via the Wiki Library Bundle seemed to turn up some notices. Just added one to the entry. Innisfree987 (talk) 19:22, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Black Women in Food History

Hello all, I came across this Smithsonian list in the GLAM newsletter, and saw there's quite a few names still in red, if people feel like taking a look! Wikipedia:WikiProject Smithsonian AWHI/Meetup/Wiki Focus: Black Women in Food History Lajmmoore (talk) 14:11, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

I started a draft for Virginia Ali. Is there a public domain photo of her out there?? Thriley (talk) 22:07, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

I’m on it, standby! Innisfree987 (talk) 22:11, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

 Done File:Virginia Ali Ben’s Chili Bowl 2019.jpg added to the entry. I wish she were facing the other way, if it had to be in profile, but this was by far the best quality pic available, short of showing her with someone else. Innisfree987 (talk) 22:41, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Good work on the image light and color adjustments. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:46, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh thank you, I appreciate hearing that! Innisfree987 (talk) 23:04, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Thriley (talk) 23:12, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

"Sue"

If you aren't following @wikiwomeninred on Twitter, you're missing some gems, including this one: https://twitter.com/WikiWomenInRed/status/1425738588520599555?s=20 --Rosiestep (talk) 12:37, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

It might sound pretty ridiculous in English but in French, some of us may really be "dinosaures", i.e. people who are recognized as having been major contributors to their field in the past but have not taken account of recent developments.--Ipigott (talk) 08:17, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Marcia B. Hall

We have a raft of redlinks and mentions for this US art historian, still active afaik. Johnbod (talk) 17:24, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Here’s a thumbnail draft, anyone interested is welcome to add: Draft:Marcia Hall. Innisfree987 (talk) 18:13, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

She warrants an entry in the Dictionary of Art Historians, whose text is copyright-free, if I recall: [1]. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 19:42, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

CC-BY-SA-4.0, but still compatible. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:27, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Terrific, thank you both. Innisfree987 (talk) 23:35, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

No, I was under the impression that 4.0 is not compatible with 3.0, or Wikipedia’s license, Tagishsimon could you clarify? Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:40, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

4.0 works at the Commons... is it different here? (Might be, I do not know!) Innisfree987 (talk) 23:45, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

(correcting my earlier post which I self-reverted) CC BY-SA 4.0 is fine for media files but not text, according to WP:COMPLIC. DanCherek (talk) 23:49, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

(EC) Oh dear. Seems that "According to the WMF legal team, CC BY-SA 4.0 is not backwards compatible with CC BY-SA 3.0. Therefore, mixing text licenses under 3.0 and 4.0 would be problematic, however media files uploaded under this license are fine". [2]. So that's a no, then. :( --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:51, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

A perplexing distinction but I can paraphrase text so it’ll do! Thanks all. Innisfree987 (talk) 23:54, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks, now live. Still working at 82 apparently! Johnbod (talk) 03:06, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

I've linked the mentions to her. Dsp13 (talk) 11:26, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Rita Boley Bolaffio

I am having difficulty locating sources on this particular artist. If anyone is able to help, I would appreciate it. Thanks.4meter4 (talk) 03:08, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

4meter4 I find quite a bit: [3], [4], [5],[6],[7] SusunW (talk) 05:15, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much!4meter4 (talk) 15:33, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

De nada. SusunW (talk) 16:17, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Wikimania Women in Red session and other events

For those like me who hadn't quite realised Wikimania was starting this weekend, there are a whole bunch of relevant sessions in the 2021 program ...

• Documenting Women Artists in the University of Salford Art Collection Through Wikidata - Saturday August 14, 16:25 to 16.35 UTC
• Women's Biographies, beyond Wikipedia: Wikibooks! - Saturday August 14, 17:00 to 17.45 UTC
• Wiki Loves Women Focus Group Members programme - Saturday, August 14, 18.20 to 18.30 UTC
• Can we rid Wikipedia of its content gender gap? Views from Women in Red Sunday August 15, 16:45 to 17.15 UTC
• For Grandmas, Girls and GLAM-Queens: WomenEdit - Monday August 16, 07:30 to 07.40 UTC
• VisibleWikiWomen community meetup: how far we’ve come, what future we want to build together - Tuesday, August 17, 16:15 UTC to 17:45 UTC
• We write Wikipedia. Participation of women in the free and collaborative encyclopedia on the Internet - Tuesday, August 17, 16:15 to 17:00 UTC

Dsp13 (talk) 11:55, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Dsp13, thanks for putting together this list. No worries for anyone who might not have registered for Wikimania. All of the sessions will be viewable in real-time via YouTube. Rosiestep (talk) 20:11, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Rosie & Roger etc. Sunday right now WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 16:49, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

What an inspirational group of panelists! Thank you! --Rosiestep (talk) 17:42, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, thank you all! (And it was lovely to be able to put a face to some of the familiar editor names from WiR) Dsp13 (talk) 18:21, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Virginia Cunningham

Throwing this out to the hive in case anyone can find any more information - I just created an article about Virginia Cunningham, longtime music librarian at the Library of Congress. Shockingly, I can find nothing online to bolster what's in Grove. I'm not worried about notability - Grove is the holy grail of music encyclopedias (as far as I'm concerned), so the fact that she warrants an entry there is enough to tell me she crosses the notability threshold - but I'd like to be able to source it a bit better, all the same. Currently trolling Grove for more potential article subjects. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 18:03, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I added some refs and a fair-use image. Penny Richards (talk) 19:10, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I added a couple refs too. Silverseren^C 19:44, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

@Penny Richards: and @Silver seren: - oh, this is wonderful. Thank you both a thousandfold and more. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 19:57, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

@Ser Amantio di Nicolao:: I noticed Carol June Bradley while I was working on Cunningham, so now she has an article started too. Penny Richards (talk) 01:08, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Weird that whilst Carol June Bradley has any amount of authority control IDs, Virginia Cunningham has none (in WD and in mix'n'match, anyway). --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:13, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

@Penny Richards: Excellent. I see that she, too, warrants an entry in Grove - I'll look at my print edition tomorrow and see if there's anything I can add. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 05:49, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Red list from the Dansk Kvindebiografisk Leksikon

Related to the above, I finally figured out how to extract a full list of entries from the Dansk Kvindebiografisk Leksikon (available online at kvinfo.dk). I have a working list at User:Joe Roe/kvinfo. At least half seem to be red, but if anyone fancies helping to check and sort them into the appropriate red lists it would be appreciated. – Joe (talk) 16:13, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Joe Roe I have put your list into da Wikipedia and found 23 more blue links based on around a quarter of the list. (I checked years of birth and death in each case.) TSventon (talk) 23:46, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

@Joe Roe: All 1,923 entries in the Leksicon are in wikidata, allowing us to report on which have EN wiki articles & which have not.

SELECT ?item ?itemLabel ?sitelink ?article ?DKL_ID
WHERE 
{0000
  ?item wdt:P7939 ?DKL_ID.000000
  OPTIONAL {?article schema:about ?item ;0
  schema:isPartOf <https://en.wikipedia.org/> ; 9
  schema:name ?sitelink .}
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en". }
}

Click here to launch the Wikidata query --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:01, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Here's the redlist page - Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by dictionary/DKL. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:20, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks both! – Joe (talk) 07:58, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks Joe Roe and Tagishsimon for these developments. One of the disadvantages of the Kvinfo biographical database is that apart from the date of death, it does not contain information after 2001. Much more recent information can be found in Kvinfo's expert database, not only on women included in the biographical database but many others. I don't know whether it would be worthwhile creating a redlist of these as many are certainly not yet "notable" enough for articles in the English version of Wikipedia. Many of my articles on Danish women, particularly those who are no longer living, have drawn on Kvinfo. I would have written articles on many more but in many cases I have not been able to find any other good secondary sources. (I rarely begin developing biographical articles until I have found at least three reliable sources.) It might be of interest to some of you to see that the Danish Wikipedia has a Category for women in the DKL. The corresponding articles are sometimes quite well developed and could form the basis of translations.--Ipigott (talk) 08:15, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• Tagishsimon I am glad there is an efficient way to produce and update the list. There are already a number of blue links, which seem to be false positives. How are these handled? TSventon (talk) 08:59, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

The bluelinks are occurrances of a missing DKL person having the same name as an existing article for a different person. Listeria, which builds the redlists, is slighlty broken right now, and does not disambiguate the redlist, as once it did. So right now we live with it :( --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:08, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

List of books of women's biographies (and/or women's biographical dictionaries)

Internet Archive is asking for a list of books of women's biographies (and/or women's biographical dictionaries). Do we have such a list or can we start one? Thanks. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:07, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

There is a page intended for building such a list but it is as yet unpopulated, I’m afraid: WP:WikiProject Women in Red/Biographical resources. Additions to it very welcome! Innisfree987 (talk) 20:16, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

should we list books of women's biographies which are only available in print form there? Dsp13 (talk) 22:05, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Dsp13, I think we should list all of the ones that we know exist because if they don't have the book, maybe they can get it. --Rosiestep (talk) 21:21, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I was hoping this could be for possible digitization! That would be great. Innisfree987 (talk) 21:36, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987, I hope so, too! --Rosiestep (talk) 22:09, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I think so! Any research leads are good IMO; having too many will be good problem to need solving :-) Innisfree987 (talk) 22:13, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

• We have the following lists, some of which are already linked from the above-mentioned Biographical resources:

• Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Resources/Fully accessible biographical dictionaries which includes a section on "Women's biographical dictionaries"
• Our redlink index includes a number of women's biographical dictionaries under Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Redlist_index#Dictionaries_and_other_reference_works (just search through for "women")
• List of biographical dictionaries of women writers in English
• Category:Biographical dictionaries of women provides links to some 20 works
• Many biographical dictionaries of women can be found on List of biographical dictionaries

As for books of biographies rather than dictionaries, Category:Biographies by subject seems to be a good starting point.

Thanks to Dsp13, WP:WikiProject Women in Red/Biographical resources is improving. I suggest we all try to provide a helping hand as this list is obviously an important resource. I would imagine Internet Archive is interested above all in works that are currently online. Would it be helpful to provide a list of some of the works we consider to be particularly important?--Ipigott (talk) 10:18, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I'm glad to know of this, as I have run across many of these during my time on WP. Most of them not for the US or UK. For a while, I was e-mailing them all to Sue, but when the idea that we could create a library ourselves became too complicated, I quit doing that. I'd have to look through every article I have written to try to find them again. Would that I had a magic wand. Anyway, going forward, I can post them on the list. SusunW (talk) 13:35, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Okay, well, I found 6 of them and added them to the list. Must get back to nationality. Will try to look for others. SusunW (talk) 14:35, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Many thanks to everyone pitching in—already it’s so abundantly helpful! Almost all works I didn’t know, so a personal thank you for these leads. Innisfree987 (talk) 19:15, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

• I'm not at all sure that this should be part of our redlist index. It does not contain any red links. The header is misleading too.--Ipigott (talk) 07:00, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

  Definitely agree. I think both were just initial placeholders. Do you have an idea of where this could live that would make more sense (and hopefully be easier to find)? One thought that occurred to me: we could start mentioning it somewhere in the standard editathon text, like we do the “10 simple rules” essay. Meanwhile I’ll see if I can find a better header. Innisfree987 (talk) 16:08, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Maybe it could be at Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Resouces/Biographical resources.--Ipigott (talk) 05:56, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Works for me! A related task to tackle may be imposing a bit more order/prioritization on the main “Resources” page. I’ll try to look through what’s there and see if I can make headway (it’s a bit daunting but that’s the issue!) Innisfree987 (talk) 18:04, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• I'd also be interested in such a list. Please see this related query: WT:WOMEN#Feedback needed: best sources for improving articles on women's issues, and contribute if you can. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 21:31, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

• Mathglot: I've been looking at the interesting discussion you linked to. Given all the suggestions from SusunW, I think perhaps Women in Red should also develop a resource page on "Searching for sources". It would be a useful complement to "Biographical resources". Perhaps Innisfree987 would be interested in this too.--Ipigott (talk) 07:21, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

  @Ipigott:, thanks. If you meant Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Biographical resources, it's looking good! If you have some thoughts about resources at the other discussion, please contribute there. Mathglot (talk) 09:48, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Miscellany for Deletion

Hello,

A sandbox article is up for deletion here. My sense is that this page and this deletion discussion merits some attention from your good selves. --Whiteguru (talk) 18:48, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

The draft in question is titled “Cruelty against Husband (in India)” and would probably benefit from eyes with subject matter expertise. Innisfree987 (talk) 21:56, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Revisiting the AfroCROWD Juneteenth Wiki Civil Rights Conference of 2020

Happening now at Wikimania: "Revisiting the AfroCROWD Juneteenth Wiki Civil Rights Conference of 2020". I am honored to be a panelist. I just spoke about Women in Red's response to the Juneteenth 2020 wiki event by creating and facilitating this event: [[8]]. Several panelists have subsequently referred to WiR's work re: BIPOC women. Youtube is available if you aren't watching Wikimania live on Remo; hoping someone can share a link. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:47, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Awesome! Tune in here! Innisfree987 (talk) 15:54, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh bummer: no captions tho (either on website or YouTube app). Wonder why, that’s usually an automatic feature (and auto captions aren’t ideal but they are something...) Innisfree987 (talk) 15:58, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

@Innisfree987: I believe YouTube's auto-captions aren't available on live videos, and are generated after the fact. I just checked back on the YouTube video and I'm able to enable them now. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 02:34, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

GorillaWarfare, thanks for letting me know they’re there now! I’ve seen other live streams with captions but it does look like it’s not universal yet. That’s too bad. Innisfree987 (talk) 02:42, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

@Innisfree987: Oh very cool! Maybe next year I figured I'd drop a note here to say that I've uploaded the video to Commons along with copyedited subtitles, so subtitles users won't need to worry about poor subtitling if they view it there (though the auto-subtitles were actually pretty good for that particular video). GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 05:54, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Ahh corrected subtitles—golden! Thanks so much GorillaWarfare. Innisfree987 (talk) 16:33, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Drat—just me or do some of the subtitles overlap? I haven’t used captions on the Commons player before, I could def be doing something wrong! (Regardless I love having the transcript to read in that side column, another great way to broaden access.) Innisfree987 (talk) 17:33, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

I noticed that as well. I'm also not familiar with the Commons media player subtitling support, perhaps there's a place on Commons where we could ask about it. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 18:13, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Searching around on Commons I found this page, which mentions "the overlap issue that is common when converting YouTube subtitles to Commons". Wish I'd found it before I copyedited the subtitles! I'll take a look at making that adjustment later this evening. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 18:15, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh rats, I had no idea of any of that. Thank you for the link—it’s great to know it’s possible to request subtitles, and also that they do translating projects. Cool! Innisfree987 (talk) 21:52, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

@Innisfree987: I've fixed the overlap issue! The ffmpeg command listed there worked a treat. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 00:31, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh that’s like magic! Works perfectly now—thank you again GorillaWarfare! Innisfree987 (talk) 09:58, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for that, GorillaWarfare! --Rosiestep (talk) 17:10, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Larisa Tarkovskaya

Hello, I recently created a draft for Larisa Tarkovskaya, a Russian film director and actress. She was the wife of Andrei Tarkovsky. She was the assistant director for the films Andrei Rublev, Solaris, Mirror, Stalker, and Nostalghia. Surprisingly, I have not been able to find much sourcing for her. I think there may be Russian sources out there but I’m not sure how to find them. Any help with the article would be appreciated! Thank you, Thriley (talk) 16:10, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I added some info that I found already on the enwiki in her husband's article, but I'm not having much luck with finding stuff in Russian that isn't first and foremost about him. I'm sure we have people here that would be better at finding sources, so hopefully you get more efficient help than what I could offer :) -Yupik (talk) 10:52, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Deaths in 2021

I found myself looking at this article's talk page and found:

Q: Why are there redlinks or redirects (deceased subject with no Wikipedia article) listed in the article?

A: Many notable people die before a Wikipedia article is written about them. The regular editors of this page have agreed that a death notice without an article may remain for one month after the death, so that an article may develop. If there is no article after one month, then the death notice is removed from the list.

So that list is a source of promising red links, as inclusion needs a source which will satisfy the guardians of the list. Quite a few of the entries have articles in other Wikipedias, linked. If not turned blue these people disappear from en.wiki after a month. If you're looking for inspiration for #1woman1day (aka miscellaneous women), have a look. (There might even be Women leaders, Indigenous women, or Women from Latin America to be found!) PamD 07:48, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, the last few days have ed links for women including a Mexican actress, Panamanian scientist and Chilean politician. PamD 07:53, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

PamD, Perhaps we need to capture them for our annual 2021 Deaths event in December?--Oronsay (talk) 07:59, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Oronsay Yes. I wonder whether there's a slick way to do it ... not sure whether the list gets weeded systematically or just on an ad hoc basis when someone feels like cleaning it up (eg this which removed three, one a woman). We could add those removed people to a crowdsourced list of deaths of the year. PamD 09:59, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Looking further ... they seem to be weeded on a day by day basis, and of course once they're out of the list they're then absent unless or until someone creates their article. I suppose if someone checked the list every month (or every 28 days perhaps in case some people interpret the "month" that way) they could look at the red links, copy the code for those who appear to be women, and dump them into an ongoing file. But the best would be if people kept an eye on that list for red linked women and made articles where appropriate. Anyone fancy trying to create Trinidad Sánchez Moreno? Spanish nun who founded an order, thus coming within our "Leadership" theme this month. Died 28 July, so will disappear from the list in about 20 days. PamD 10:16, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Another note about that list: it is absolutely forbidden to mention that someone is indigenous on it. I've tried for years and each time get reverted. Any other attempts to bypass it are also swiftly deleted (for instance, using chief of X tribe/nation). It is beyond the pale and makes closing the indigenous gap all the harder. -Yupik (talk) 12:59, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I don't understand why anyone would revert the mention that an individual on the list is Indigenous. Some editors who are interested in writing bio's on individuals who are Indigenous would look for those keywords. Just on the face of it, it makes total sense to include that where it is applicable. --ARoseWolf 15:59, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

I understand, if don't necessarily agree with, it. The people who monitor those lists are very particular about the format, and with good reason. The format only calls for a nationality, which indigenous is not. Allowing this extra information would be an exception that could make other users feel they can add different kinds of unsolicited information. So the only 'valid' place a mention of being indigenous would be warranted is as the cause of a person's notability. Simply being indigenous isn't WP:N, being a scholar/academic of indigenous topics will have them only listed as an academic. It's a one-line entry and anything considered "filler" is removed for everyone. So I see why for the most part. Though I do wonder why chiefs have that information removed, as it seems important. Another note: you say retaining the information would be useful for people looking to create the articles. In my experience, the users who monitor the lists are actively against that, often removing redlinks before the month is over. While you may disagree with their practices, it's important to remember that the "Deaths in..." lists aren't like WiR lists, and different parts of Wikipedia have different purposes. Ultimately, those lists are still articles – some of the most-read articles on all of Wikipedia, in fact – and have to meet WP:BLP. Getting millions of views each month and dealing with a precarious topic, you can see why the editors are so strict. Kingsif (talk) 17:26, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Incidentally WiR does have a recent deaths list generated from Wikidata: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Recent_deaths. The description field is more flexible so it could be updated in Wikidata to reflect that someone was indigenous, I think. That said, the list only shows the last 14 days because it was created to help identify ITNRD candidates and that has a seven-day (from announcement) clock. Innisfree987 (talk) 17:50, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Kingsif, Being such a viewed page makes it kind of odd that this is the first time I've even heard about this list in over a year of editing. I would suggest to Yupik to include the Native Nation they are citizens of rather than just putting Indigenous. This removes the vague description and makes it more deliberate. If this is removed/reverted then we would be justified to ask for a reason. Note: They need to change the instructions. Describing a typical entry is more of a suggestion than a requirement to follow a certain format. --ARoseWolf 18:30, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Being such a viewed page makes it kind of odd that this is the first time I've even heard about this list in over a year of editing - not really. Editors are often involved in creating content, while readers flock in to, mostly, keep up with TV shows or read about celebrity deaths. The list is a hub of celebrity deaths. If you have suggestions for them, you should probably take it to their talkpage. Kingsif (talk) 18:58, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for that link Innisfree987. Seems that list fits more to what I think our purpose as editors is here. The other can be for readers looking for their favorite celebrity who may have passed. --ARoseWolf 19:29, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

References

I started a translation at Draft:Trinidad Sánchez Moreno if anyone wants to keep going with it... Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:06, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

ARoseWolf: I do just that, but it gets reverted. As I am constantly in the discussion on wikidata about things like this, I have little to no bandwidth for dealing with the issue on enwiki :/ -Yupik (talk) 11:01, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

I wish there was a way this could be autoappended the reverting editors' talk page every time they try to revert this stuff. (It is also good for us to remember when we write bios of indigenous women.) -Yupik (talk) 11:04, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

African women without biographies

On 9 August, Leah Rodriguez wrote an article on Global Citizen providing short biographies of seven African women deserving Wikipedia pages. Within a couple of days, thanks mainly to Abishe, Victuallers and Indy beetle, they all had well presented articles. Here they are: Cissé Hadja Mariama Sow, Nebila Abdulmelik, Jeannine Mukanirwa, Mercy Akuot, Kagendo Murungi, Bibata Ouédraogo, Beatrice Mukansinga. I hope Leah Rodriguez appreciates the rapid response.--Ipigott (talk) 10:26, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

I contacted her via Twitter... but no reply. Maybe she is not a regular visitor as I would have expected her to be very surprised. Victuallers (talk) 14:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Give her a day or two. Some of us only check these things out once a day. She's written a number of interesting articles about women and the gender gap and I have a feeling she might even be a Wikipedia user (although she doesn't seem to be Leahrodrig).--Ipigott (talk) 15:26, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Listeria update

Sad-eyed & miserable Listeria watchers may be pleased to hear that the tool, for the last couple of days, has updated hundreds of redlists per day rather than the 5 or 10 per day performance it has shown since the start of April. I've just run an update for Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Economists, one of our "Killed by OS for overloading memory" problem-children, and it worked. I'm hoping it's as a result of Magnus having had the time to dig into the problem, though right now I don't know one way or another whether that's the case. It still has other issues, particularly lack of DABs on redlinks for which there are articles on similarly named people and, just now, the autodescription facility failing. (For those following along at home, Listeria is the tool which generates WiR Redlists from wikidata; it's been a bit poorly.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:15, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Good news but still no joy on Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Mathematicians. Is it all the extra columns? —David Eppstein (talk) 07:37, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

It's hard to characterise: probably associated with a data value corresponding to an over-large item, such as a country - although removing the p27 column from the /Maths redlist didn't fix the killed by OS error. The SPARQL runs perfectly well in WDQS. No word from Magnus (I've asked) on whether the last 3 days of good performance result from a change at his end, or from something else. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:31, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Woe is me as well; have fiddled trying to optimize but Listeria keeps killing updates on the main Dictionary of Women Worldwide red list. Incidentally when run in SPARQL, the query only turns up an extra 200 names (above the ~2100 at last Listeria update in June), but this is evidently too much, even if I remove a column or ask the query to beginning just from entries described by DoWW. Alas. I appreciate you and Marcus trying to sort this. Innisfree987 (talk) 17:47, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh but it is pleasing to see my other lists update automatically! Excellent. Innisfree987 (talk) 17:32, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Helen Putnam

Hi, came across this article [9] in the Guardian this morning. It speaks about Mayor Helen Putnam of Petaluma in California, who fought against urban sprawl in a case that went to supreme court in 1970's. There is a blog I think, [10] to get started. There seems to be a Helen Putnam Regional Park and the Putnam Plaza on Petaluma Boulevard (no article) and Helen Putnam Award of Excellence (no article as yet). I think she is sufficiently notable for an article. scope_creep^Talk 08:27, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Here are some news stories about her from newspapers.com, including a big obituary. Feb 1976Sept 1976 July 1984 Obit March 1987 Most are from the Petaluma paper, but one is from Santa Rosa. --Krelnik (talk) 20:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Edith Prentiss

Hello, I created a draft for disability rights activist Edith Prentiss. She died this year. I was surprised she didn’t already have a page. Any help with the article would be appreciated! Thank you, Thriley (talk) 23:59, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Pearl Peden Oldfield

Hi. I just cleaned up Pearl Peden Oldfield, (added infobox, reworded, footnotes, etc.). However it could use some work (and seems very relevant to the project -- she was the first woman elected to Congress from Arkansas). Would be great if some people take a look. Thanks, DemonDays64 (talk) 01:20, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

DemonDays64, thanks for the work and the note. I have added some from contemporary newspaper articles but it could still do with help from someone better versed in the era than I (she was in office 1929–1931 and Prohibition, the Depression and the women’s movement all make appearances in the sources but I haven’t quite gotten this context into the entry.) Innisfree987 (talk) 06:18, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Added a bit more. Innisfree987 (talk) 17:24, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

BBC 100 Women 2020

The recent post on the African women article (great work), reminded me that there are still a few of the BBC's 100 Women from 2020 who are notable, in case anyone is looking for ideas? The full list is on meta, but there's actually only nine who are EN pageless. They are: Wendy Caishpal (wd), Rima Sultana Rimu (wd), Lucy Monaghan (wd), Cibele Racy (wd), Elin Williams (wd), Carolina Castro (wd), Chu Kim Duc (wd), Iman Ghaleb Al-Hamli (wd) and I've started a draft for Draft:Gulnaz Zhuzbaeva! Lajmmoore (talk) 20:04, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Helen Foot Buell notable?

Hi all. The sourcing is pretty thin on this particular academic. From the references it doesn't look like she passes WP:SIGCOV, but she may meet WP:NACADEMIC in some fashion. If anyone is willing to take a look, I would appreciate it. Thanks.4meter4 (talk) 16:34, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Bulked it up a little, added an infobox, birthdate, etc., but it would really help if there were an obituary in a professional journal, maybe? My JSTOR isn't working right now.Penny Richards (talk) 00:59, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

German women, sexual violence and politics

Greetings,

While casually checking an anon edit's difference to the article Wartime sexual violence came across a sentence tagged with citation needed template since 'December 2008'.

Sentence before anon change German women who became pregnant after being raped by Soviet soldiers in World War II were invariably denied the right to murder so they would be further humiliated by being forced to carry an unwanted child.Citation needed|date=September 2008

The anon changed a word in the Sentence German women who became pregnant after being raped by Soviet soldiers in World War II were invariably denied the right to abortion so they would be further humiliated by being forced to carry an unwanted child. with edit summary "..Corrected an instance of "murder" being used for abortion.." without bothering about sentence it self has been tagged for citation needed.

Why I brought issue here

1) Whether claims in the sentence are facts ? if so can some one pl. help out in supporting the sentence with a appropriate citation. Or else pl. discuss whether to keep sentence or remove.

2) Do you think a) Facts in the sentence if true b) Claims in the sentence whether true or not c) Inclusion or even non inclusion of sentence in an encyclopedia d) Is this only a women's right issue only or there are any political angles behind? e) If it has political angles whether these political angles do matter to women? f) Using word 'murder' for 'abortion' and again replacing with 'abortion' and earlier raised points are only acts of gender politics or those of sexual politics?

I don't know if using a minor edit for appealing to expand article Draft:Sexual politics initiated by me will sound like political or not but those who think doing politics for good cause is good will certainly understand issues and help expand.

Thanks, Bookku, 'Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge' (talk) 05:56, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

I’m not sure I followed your second set of questions, but as for the “murder” phrasing, it was vandalism that occurred on August 12; here’s the diff. Reverting it was correct. In hunting for that, I see the page has a lot of citation issues which I am, sorry to say, not prepared to help resolve. But it’s a worthy project. Innisfree987 (talk) 06:58, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, My own knowledge on Soviet soldier's war time behavior in Germany is limited. True that it was vandalism but my focus is on citation and (sexual) political aspect side. Let me rephrase my second point: 'atrocities by Soviets' and 'abortion debate' are humanitarian issues, but associating them with each other ('...so they would be further humiliated by being forced to carry an unwanted child..' this partially humanitarian appeal) same time does it not amount to Sexual politics in a way intending to show another side in additional negative light? So citation becomes pertinent in this case. (I am not judging 'sexual politics' here but purpose is point out 'sexual politics' is different than that of gender politics. Topic of gender politics is covered to some extent on Wikipedia but topic of Sexual politics is still not covered and needs to be covered.

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge' (talk) 09:34, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Aha. Well I would not argue against needing a citation. For my two cents on the topic article, I would avoid starting from particular examples like this/attempting to analyze whether or not they are Sexual politics—instead I’d start from secondary sources and follow the examples they give. I can make some recommendations if you need books to check out. The literature is significant! Innisfree987 (talk) 16:04, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

• Abortion_in_Germany#History says that in 1945 to 1948 abortion in Germany was both illegal (except maybe on crucial health grounds) and highly common - some 2 million cases a year. It wasn't then accepted as a "right", as in almost all the world at the time, so "invariably denied the right" doesn't seem the best way of putting it. Also "so they would be further humiliated by being forced to carry an unwanted child" rather suggests this was the intended effect, rather than an accidental consequence. This seems pretty dubious too. Johnbod (talk) 13:00, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
• This book may support the claim, at least in part, but the relevant pages aren't accessible to me. The snippets suggest that somehow abortion access was denied, but hard to tell if it was part of a broader policy not specific to these rapes without seeing the whole pages. Calliopejen1 (talk) 19:49, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
  • For heaven's sake, it was illegal, as virtually everywhere else in the world in 1946, but extremely common nonetheless. Yes, it's hard to tell anything from google snippets. I'm glad to see you have removed the sentence anyway. Johnbod (talk) 02:46, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Recommended Wikimania presentations

I highly recommend Jess Wade's motivating Wikimedia presentation Science and storytelling: Why who we talk about matters. Jess, who has now created 1,416 biographies, explains in less than 20 minutes how she became attached to Wikipedia and how important it is for us to tell the stories of women. Also of interest is the WiR panel discussion hosted by Rosie Stephenson-Goodknight and Roger Bamkin where you can see the lively faces of some of our most enthusiastic participants.--Ipigott (talk) 09:04, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Seconded! Both were fantastic and inspiring. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 15:25, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Kelly Tall talks about the relationship between Wikipedia and the Order of Australia recipients. Who is represented and who isn't? It's all about the gender gap. Starts at 56:50 min Who do we think we are?--Oronsay (talk) 20:43, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Oronsay: I could not find Kelly's presentation on the link you gave as it led me to Jess Wade. What was the exact name of her intervention?--Ipigott (talk) 12:56, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Apologies! Here is the correct link. It was part of the Wikimedia Australia presentation. I've also amended it above.--Oronsay (talk) 16:17, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

SOLA the first girls boarding school in Afghanistan needs expansion

SOLA or School of Leadership Afghanistan is the first boarding for girls in Afghanistan after the Taliban captured the founder Shabana Basij-Rasikh destroyed the records of her students to avoid the Taliban from getting them.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 15:06, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Jennie Eliza Davis

This individual, a.k.a. J. E. Davis and Jane E. Davis, was an educator, editor, author, and administrator and is at the nexus of a bunch of interesting subjects. I thought someone might anyone enjoy writing her up for Wikipedia. Hashtag Troy, New York, Vassar, Hampton Institute, Jamestown and early Virginia history, post civil-war education of African Americans, segregation controveries etc. She has a write-up at the Dictionary of Virginia here. FloridaArmy (talk) 23:24, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

She seems quite interesting. I’ve started a brief draft for her:Draft:Jennie Eliza Davis. Best, Thriley (talk) 00:40, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

The X Library people

After I got to experience The American Library virtually, I created an article for it and wish to make ones for its sister artworks, the British and African Libraries.
The names featured in the artwork are supposedly all very important people. Most of these people have articles, and lots of those are very good articles, but still some don't! I've been trying to make a list of everyone we can see here; I've not got that far into the 3,200 but there's some redlinks cropping up (mostly men) if anyone wants to look into them. There's two missing women so far:

• Patty Arvielo
• Lotte Bailyn

Additionally, Ruth Benesch only has a joint article, even though she continued working for 10 years after Reinhold died. Kingsif (talk) 02:08, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your list. I’ll be working on Lotte Bailyn. Another surprising Woman in Red. Thriley (talk) 03:41, 23 August 2021 (UTC)