Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 October 13

Welcome to the Wikipedia Help Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current Help Desk pages.

October 13

How to add article and how to create a page

Add Syed Nayyab Haider (talk) 00:56, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

@Syed Nayyab Haider: You're going to want to read WP:YFA, but as a new user I suggest editing preexisting articles first, as creating a new article from scratch is one of the hardest things you can do on Wikipedia. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Can't download as pdf

When I try downloading a wikipedia page using "Download as PDF"...I'm getting a "HTTPError 500 internal server error". What's going on and how do I fix it???? Rvdude007 (talk) 05:40, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Rvdude007: You're not alone – see § Unable To Download Wikipedia Pages As PDF from a couple of days ago. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 05:50, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T376438

The Great Banyan Vs Thimmamma Marrimanu Vs General Sherman (tree)

Apparently all three of these trees are the largest in the world. Not only that, but The Great Banyan and Thimmamma Marrimanu use exactly the same sources to show that [i]t was recorded as the largest tree specimen in the world in the Guinness Book of World Records in 1989. My confusion is compounded by the myriad of different ways in which a tree can be the "largest", but according to List of superlative trees, both Thimmamma Marrimanu and General Sherman are top of the tree (sorry) in respective categories, but The Great Banyan doesn't get a mention.

Of the attached sources one is on Archive.org - which is currently down and inaccessible - and the other two are dead links. A Google search suggests that General Sherman is generally considered to be the "largest tree", (especially by Guinness) with Thimmamma Marrimanu getting an honourable mention, and The Great Banyan getting no mention at all. I'm tempted to remove the claim from Great Banyan, and tag the others for dead links and better source needed, but thought I'd ask here first for opinions. Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:07, 13 October 2024 (UTC) Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:07, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

What do you mean by largest? The Great Banyan covers the widest ground area but is not very tall. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:32, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

And so you see the problem. It's not what I mean by "largest", but what does Wikipedia mean by largest, and that seems a very broad definition. However, my main point is - I think - still valid in that The Great Banyan and Thimmamma Marrimanu cannot both have been declared the largest tree specimen in the world in the Guinness Book of World Records in 1989 - so which is it? Chaheel Riens (talk) 09:08, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

From Guinness Book of Records 2022 (Sept. 2021), Guinness World Records Limited, ISBN 978-1913484118, pp. 44-45:

"Largest canopy on a tree: Banyans spread by sending down cord-like appendages from horizontal branches that take root and become new trunks, so one tree can resemble an entire grove. Located in Anantapur, Andhra Pradesh, India, Thimmamma Marrimanu is an Indian banyan (Ficus benghalensis) whose multiple crowns merge to form a 2.19-ha (5.41-acre) canopy – equivalent to three soccer fields."

"Widest crown on a tree (single trunk): Chamchuri is a rain tree (Albizia saman) with a crown diameter of 60.4 m (198 ft 1 in), located on the Thai Army cavalry grounds near Kanchanaburi, Thailand. As of 2018, its trunk girth was 9.15 m (30 ft) and the tree stood 17.6 m (57 ft 8 in) tall."

"Giants of the forest: A coast redwood (Sequoia sempervirens) nicknamed Hyperion had grown to 116.07 m (380 ft 9 in) by 2019, making it currently the world’s tallest tree. It was discovered on 25 Aug 2006 inside Redwood National Park in California, USA. To Hyperion’s left [illustration] is Centurion, the tallest hardwood tree at 99.82 m (327 ft 5 in); the mountain ash (Eucalyptus regnans) was measured in 2014 in Tasmania, Australia. Alongside Centurion is a giant sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum) named General Sherman, currently the largest tree by volume at 1,591 m 3 (56,186 cu ft). It stands 83.6 m (274 ft) in Sequoia National Park, also in California."

          Tallest trees around the world
          Continent      Height   Species
          North America 116.07 m Coast redwood (Sequoia sempervirens)
          Oceania        99.82 m Mountain ash (Eucalyptus regnans)
          Asia           98.53 m Yellow meranti (Shorea faguetiana)
          South America  88.50 m Red angelim (Dinizia excelsa)
          Africa         81.50 m Muyovu (Entandrophragma excelsum)
          Europe         72.90 m Karri (Eucalyptus diversicolor)

It all depends on what you mean by 'biggest', as Prof. C.E.M. Joad used to say. MinorProphet (talk) 12:13, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

@Chaheel Riens: I think we need to go back to first principles here. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia whose mission is to provide accurate information to the general reader based on cited reliable sources. When sources disagree, we are supposed to explain the discrepancy. We are not supposed to take sides. So how can we apply these principles in this complicated situation that spans multiple articles? Here is my reccomendation: In each affected article, add a qualifier in parentheses, e.g. (largest canopy), or (single trunk), or (by mass). Also add a footnote. -Arch dude (talk) 15:56, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

With all due respect, people are missing my point that the same three references are being used to claim that both The Great Banyan and Thimmamma Marrimanu were recorded as the largest tree specimen in the world in the Guinness Book of World Records in 1989. All three sources are - for different reasons - unavailable, so what should be done about that? Clearly both cannot be the world record holder, but I'm at a loss as to how to validate either of the claims. They're both Banyan trees, so it seems likely that the claim is for the same type of "largest". Chaheel Riens (talk) 16:05, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

@Chaheel Riens: If you cannot get a copy of the reference (e.g., via an interlibrary loan), then you may be able to ask another editor to look it up for you. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request. If the source is self-contradictory, then note the discrepancy in both articles. -Arch dude (talk) 17:54, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Alternatively, @Chaheel Riens:, in all the relevant articles, remove the texts and (outdated and unretrievable) citations that you have noticed are inadequate, and replace them with the relevant information from Guinness Book of Records 2022 that MinorProphet has retrieved above, citing it to that more recent work. We are not obligated to retain cites to older, poorer sources (which will anyway be preserved in the page histories) when newer and better ones have become available. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 20:52, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

References

Notes

Publishing articles written in the sandbox

Hi, I have created an article about sports business expert Joern Schlimm in my Sandbox, but I cannot seem to be able to officially publish the article. Can you please help me? Thanks. SBRacademy (talk) 14:07, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

@SBRacademy You seem to have moved that to Draft:Joern Schlimm and submitted it for review. That's the correct location and you can now WP:BLANK your sandbox or re-use it. Your draft needs to have its sources in the correct format, not as bare URL. See {{cite web}} and Help:Referencing for beginners. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:32, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks. I will fix the sources accordingly. SBRacademy (talk) 15:57, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

@SBRacademy: I converted your "bare URL" references to templated references in a couple of seconds, using WP:reFill. I'm unclear why neither User:Idoghor Melody (who declined your draft), nor User:Michael D. Turnbull (above), did this. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:45, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

.... because I prefer to teach people to fish. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:53, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Andy Sebisays (talk) 16:47, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Deprecated sources

I expanded an article with some text that I supported with inline citations. Then I got a Wiki-warning that one of my sources was deprecated and not permissible. But the message didn't tell me which source was the problem! How can I find out so that I can fix this? When I search for "deprecated sources" I get nothing. Thanks, BuzzWeiser196 (talk) 14:09, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

It would help to know which article you are referencing. 331dot (talk) 14:18, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

The article is New Malden. BuzzWeiser196 (talk) 20:06, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

The sources are the tabloids The Sun and The Daily Mail in the article New Malden. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:20, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

@BuzzWeiser196 I recommend installing the gadget at WP:UPSD, which instantly shows in colour various levels of unreliable sources, including deprecated ones. There is a list at WP:RSPS but that's not as comprehensive, although it has both WP:THESUN and WP:DAILYMAIL. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:22, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Mike. BuzzWeiser196 (talk) 20:08, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Can someone upload onto Wikipedia for me

Good evening, I've recently published a new scientific paper titled : "A large pterosaur from the Middle Jurassic (lower Bajocian) of Rutland, United Kingdom"

The paper is open sourced at the link below.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016787824000555

Could someone kindly enter this onto Wikipedia please. As I'd very much appreciate that indeed. Outfossiling (talk) 16:18, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Upload for what purpose? Wikipedia isn't a repository for academic papers, so it's unclear what do you plan to do with it. 10mmsocket (talk) 16:23, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

@Outfossiling You may wish to contribute to articles here such as Pterodactyloidea, but please first read WP:EXPERT and WP:SELFCITE. Images from your article may be uploaded at our sister Project Wikimedia Commons. There is a wizard for doing this at commons:Special:UploadWizard Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:40, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Mike, I will definitely now be looking into this. Outfossiling (talk) 16:53, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. Outfossiling (talk) 16:52, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Dixon’s Blazes redirect error message

Hi Folks!! I'm getting an error message when I try and create this redirect at Dixon’s Blazes to Govan Iron Works. It is reporting "Warning: This page can only be created and/or edited by administrators, template editors, and page movers because it matches an entry on the local or global title blacklist: .*’.* <errmsg=titleblacklist-custom-curly-quote> # right single quotation mark with custom error message". I guess its been used for something dodgy in the past. scope_creep^Talk 16:51, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

@Scope creep: It's because of the curly apostrophe in "Dixon’s". I was able to crate a redirect from Dixon's Blazes without issue. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:46, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing: That is all it was. Its curious really. Thanks. scope_creep^Talk 17:54, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Download function

Why does this error ({"name":"HTTPError","message":"500","status":500,"detail":"Internal Server Error"}) keep showing and will not let me download information. Montez2023 (talk) 17:52, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

It's a known bug from the weekly software update; see phab:T376438. Folly Mox (talk) 20:42, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Recovering account

I have lost my access to my account (Cavebear42). I am _super_ bummed about it. Having created it over 20 years ago, I am very attached. I have tried every email address I can think of but, back then, emails weren't required so it may not be linked to one. Is there any way I can recover this? I have uploaded pictures of myself from that account (and prove it is me with ID). I own cavebear42.com and can show that I am the true "cavebear42". I am hoping there is something that someone can do. 24.17.70.172 (talk) 20:19, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello. When I go to User:Cavebear42, it does not offer me "email this user" in the "Tools" list. This means, I believe, that that account does not have an email attached. Unfortunately, if you have lost the password, then there is no way to recover the account.

All you can do is to create a new account - you can edit both user pages to explain the one is the successor of the other. ColinFine (talk) 21:25, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I have to think that there is some process to recover. Not just "this account is lost forever". Is there some sort of IT that I can get support from? Someone must have this power. 24.17.70.172 (talk) 02:39, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

No, I'm afraid that there is no process to recover a lost account with no usable email attached. See Help:Logging in#What if I forget my password? ColinFine (talk) 10:53, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Trust and Safety presumably can do it but I'm not sure they'd be willing to do it without a {{committed identity}}. Alpha3031 (t • c) 14:06, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I will reach out and see what they say. 24.17.70.172 (talk) 15:05, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Intermittent reference balloon pop-up while reading articles.

When you hover over the reference, which is shown as [1] here, it should normally produce a pop-up balloon as well as highlight it in the list of reference references at the bottom of the article. Is this something on my end or is anyone else experiencing this on Windows in Chrome? Lorem Ipsum

References

Graywalls (talk) 22:04, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

@Graywalls I see the reference on hover-over but have to click on the reference number to get the citation to highlight within the references. This is normal behaviour for my Windows/Edge browser. I use navigation popups, which may affect the result. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:23, 14 October 2024 (UTC)