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Help Wikipedia

I'm new

As the title says, I'm new and nervous, and even the newcomer pages don't help. I worry about even clicking on the edit button. The reason why is because I'm afraid (make a big mistake) to get banned from Wikipedia and plainly just is confused going through a tutorial. What is your number one advice to get over this fear? Tri Comment (talk) 00:49, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@Tri Comment: Welcome to the Teahouse. Just make tiny edits to start out. As a new user, you should have a homepage enabled at Special:Homepage, which should show you some suggestions for "easy edits" like correcting a typo. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@Tri Comment Just be bold! If you believe a change is right, do it. Explain the reason in the edit summary, if an editor disagrees, they'll explain why instead of reverting without reason. As Tenryuu said above, start by making small edits. You'll get more comfortable over time. If you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask. Regards, win8x (talking | spying) 01:00, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Edits may be reverted (reversed, undone) - often for not providing a reference in support of added content - without the erroneous editor being blocked. Blocking offences include stuff like vandalism, threatening other editors, threatening to start legal action... David notMD (talk) 01:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@Tri Comment: Further to the good advice given above by others, you can make some practice edits in your sandbox. Please do! Also take our short tutorial. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:47, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi! You asking how to overcome fear is the first step to overcoming it. There is nothing to worry about here. As others have said previously, see videos and check the edit guides.

In addition, try to join the Wikimedia affiliates in your community for offline guidance. You can also come here to ask questions you are not sure of, you can also reach out to me on my talk page as I'm open to guiding new editors Tesleemah (talk) 12:19, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@Tri Comment: People here are extremely forgiving of what you're thinking of as stupid mistakes. Go ahead and make some! Nobody gets blocked for that, ever. People get blocked for constant malicious actions, for persistent advertising, for persistently trying to force unsourced material into the encyclopedia, or for continually ignoring warnings. Even if you did do something that's considered bad enough to get warned about, it wouldn't matter at all – as long as you heeded the warning and "mended your ways" appropriately. If you are doing your best to not fight with people (including trying not to become provoked if harassed), and if you are consistently "above-board" and honest, then any mistakes you make will quickly be forgotten and you will stay as long as you like. TooManyFingers (talk) 15:54, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I am also a pretty new editor, mostly adding ref's and links to other pages, fixing bare URLs, etc. But, just by going into lots of articles for edits, I've learned a lot. I've also learned alot by looking at the html code itself.

There is a LARGE amount to learn, way more than I thought to try to write and article from scratch (which at this point is way too difficult for me to try).

One word of caution, don't get frustrated if people revert some of your changes, I've found a few times already I thought I did something wrong, and it really was just a "vandal" or someone purposely disrupting things. While I was trying to figure out what was happening, admins were working on it (with minutes), vandal got banned and an admin told me not to worry and re-did my change. Admins were VERY helpful. Jjamulla (talk) 23:17, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Some of my students cannot post external links to my talk page

This problem is affecting only a minority of my students; as far as I can tell this is pretty random, as in, it affects only some students. Many students with new accounts can do this, but a few cannot. The links are the same (they need to take a screenshot of the training for students page, upload it to imgur or such and link it in their post). We already had a similar activity last semester and no student reported this problem back then. Some of the affected students include Poeyal (talk · contribs), Xukeying2022039098 (talk · contribs) and Hee Jung, Yoon (talk · contribs) (there are more - see my talk page if you need more data and look for student posts without links). FYI my first thought was that this is some security feature affecting just created accounts, but this does not appear to be the case, looking at the logs I see that students who created accounts today could send me links, but others, like Poeyal, who created an account few days ago, could not. I also had them try alternative browsers and even computers, which did not help, so it is not the fault of their PCs but rather some weird account issue. What's up?

PS. Ping @AlphaBetaGamma - perhaps this is related to the issue you reported on my talk page? (But the students should be logged in...) _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 08:27, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi Piotrus at Hanyang. New users have to enter a CAPTCHA when they add external links. This is no longer required when the account becomes autoconfirmed after four days and ten edits. You could try asking them to disable "Enable quick topic adding" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing. They still need a CAPTCHA but the inferface may be different. I don't know how CAPTCHA interacts with quick topic adding. AlphaBetaGamma referred to old issues in the logs.[1][2] There is only one log entry since June and that was an IP. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Huh. I thought I saw an IP triggering "prevent new users from editing other's talk pages" filter in your talk page. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 10:49, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter Thanks. There is probably some error with CAPTCHA and our interface here that needs to be reported to Bugzilla. I can verify this as numerous students showed me that - they try to click "Add topic" blue button and it does nothing, there is no captcha for them to fill. No idea how others were able to succeed this, since students who succeeded did not ask me for help. This should be investigated by someone (any idea whom to ping?). _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 04:51, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

@Hanyangprofessor2: I have reported it at phab:T374770. Some users could post at User talk:Hanyangprofessor2 because they are autoconfirmed, or did not use the new topic tool, or did not post a clickable external link. It's possible to post a url inside <nowiki>...</nowiki> which prevents a link. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Uploading a Film Poster

Hi! I want to learn how to upload a film poster on an established wiki page. Can someone guide please? Albertan2014 (talk) 14:48, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Try Wikipedia:Files for upload/Wizard. NotAGenious (talk) 15:16, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure but I think film posters are usually "fair use" images. 331dot (talk) 15:19, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Correct (non-free). NotAGenious (talk) 15:21, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

@Albertan2014 So see WP:NONFREE and ensure you follow all the guidance in doing the upload. You can look at how others have done their upload to see what details are needed: for example at file:Godse (film).jpg. A bot will reduce the pixel size automatically if you upload a high-resolution version. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:32, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, but I need to know where do I start? Is there any tutorial? Albertan2014 (talk) 15:55, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't think there is any tutorial for uploading film posters, Albertan2014, but I'll leave a message on your talk page in a while, explaining briefly how you can upload them. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 20:35, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much, my friend! Albertan2014 (talk) 14:46, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

QUAD A - info page

Hi, I am trying to create a wikipedia page for QUAD A , a medical accreditation company. There are several medical accreidation companies on wikipedia, so im unsure why QUAD A is being flagged Janacgodshall (talk) 16:58, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Janacgodshall. You wrote a draft which was overly promotional. This is prohibited on Wikipedia. Please carefully read the following policies:

- Wikipedia:Neutral point of view

- Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) Qcne (talk) 17:00, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

really - i didnt promote it at all - it was information based saying the programs it had - im not sure how anyone even had time to read or flag it because it happened within miliseconds of submission Janacgodshall (talk) 17:02, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

That's promotion. Wikipedia is not a place to just tell about something and its offerings. A Wikipedia article about a company must summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about a company, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable company. Not every company merits an article, even within the same field. 331dot (talk) 17:05, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

We have articles as part of the encyclopedia, not pages. That other articles exist has no bearing on whether an article about this company exists. Each article or draft is judged on its own merits. That one article exists does not mean in and of itself that other articles must exist- not every member of a field gets an article just because one does, it depends on the criteria, like a notable company.

If you work for this company, that must be disclosed, see WP:PAID as well as WP:COI. 331dot (talk) 17:03, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

well, iw ould like to try again as it is strictly informative and information on what QUAD A is. Janacgodshall (talk) 17:05, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that's promotion. Wikipedia is not a place for businesses to provide information about themselves. We want to know what others say about the business, not what it says about itself. 331dot (talk) 17:07, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

The Joint Commission and AAAHC have Wikipedia pages. They are identical companies to QUAD A. This is very unfair that both of these can have wiki pages but we cannot.

The Joint Commission: Wikipedia page

AAAHC (Accreditation Association for Ambulatory Health Care): Wikipedia page Janacgodshall (talk) 17:09, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

I haven't examined those articles to know if they meet the criteria to merit an article. It could very well be that they don't, but again, each article is judged on its own merits, not based on the presence of other articles. If you wish, you can initiate a deletion discussion if you truly feel those articles should not exist, or just mark them for attention from other editors- but you will first need to declare your relationship with QUAD A. If you work for them, the Terms of Use require disclosure. 331dot (talk) 17:12, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Those organizations do not "have pages" that they own and control. Wikipedia has articles about those organizations. Our articles are typically written by independent editors. 331dot (talk) 17:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

well, how can QUAD A have pages that we do not control. I would be happy to just have articles about our organization. How can we proceed? Janacgodshall (talk) 17:49, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

You need to make the paid editing disclosure, this is a Terms of Use requirement. I will provide instructions on your user talk page.

Your organization trying to force the issue of creating an article is not likely to be successful. The best thing you can do is go on about the work of your business, and once enough independent reliable sources choose on their own- and not based on materials from your organization like interviews- to write about it, eventually independent editors will take note of that coverage and choose to write about your business.

Be advised that an article about your business is not necessarily a good thing. There are good reasons to not want one. Any information about your business, good or bad, can be in an article about it as long as it appears in an independent reliable source and is not defamatory. Disgruntled customers could vandalize the article which others could see before it is removed. Think carefully about this. 331dot (talk) 18:04, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

In sum, a company (or a person) does not "own" the article. Once it exists anyone can edit as long as content is verified by references. References need to be independent, and ABOUT the company. Writing what the company wants to publish about itself is useless. David notMD (talk) 19:38, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

@Janacgodshall: If you can write a whole page of more than 450 words of such blatant marketing-speak as "committed to ensuring high-quality services", "continues to drive excellence in the industry", "high-quality, cost-effective", "adherence to high medical guidelines and commitment to patient protection", and so on and so on and so on... and really honestly not think that it's promotional then you will probably never be able to edit in the neutral way required for Wikipedia. Also if you really honestly can't see the difference between that kind of thing and the way that the articles Accreditation Association for Ambulatory Health Care and Joint Commission are written, then ... well, words fail me. JBW (talk) 20:02, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Draft Speedy deleted and account indef blocked. David notMD (talk) 20:54, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

my edits keeps on being rejected and im really trying hard :(

Hi everyone,

I’ve been working really hard to create a page on Wikipedia: Draft:Hikmat Abou Zaid, but I keep facing rejection due to the sources I’ve provided. I’ve gathered 18 sources that I spent a lot of time researching and verifying, but it seems like they still don’t meet the requirements.

I would really appreciate any help or guidance on how to improve my draft and ensure my sources are acceptable. If anyone could take a look or offer some advice, that would be amazing!

Thank you in advance for your time and support! Mradmrad1 (talk) 12:44, 11 September 2024 (UTC) Hello Mradmrad1 Your sources are very weak, www.antoineonline.com is merely a book store mentioning your references, you need a notable sources that detailed the author you are writing about, also glco.org is not accessible and one other only summarises the author. Work more on your references. Tesleemah (talk) 04:05, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Mradmrad1 Strictly speaking, your draft was not rejected (which would mean you would have to stop work on it) but repeatedly declined, meaning that it could possibly be improved. As I don't speak Arabic, I can't comment on all your sources but I can immediately see that the draft does not meet the mandatory requirements of a biography of a living person. Please read that policy carefully. So, for example, you say that Zeid has a law degree and a Masters degree but you provide no citation to back up these facts. Any draft has to show that the subject is wikinotable in the way that Wikipedia defines notability. So, for example, your citation to omt.com is useless in that respect as it is not independent of him. Do you have any sources at all that meet all of the golden rules? If so, read the essay on how to use them and them only to show notability. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:15, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Mradmrad1, and welcome to the Teahouse.

I'm afraid your experience is a common one for new editors who attempt the difficult task of creating a new article before they have spend significant time learning about Wikipedia's policies and procedures. (Would you enter a major competition when you only took up a sport for the first time last week?)

My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft.

The stages of successfully writing an article can be simply stated:

1. Find several places where people wholly unconnected with the subject of the article have chosen to write at some length about the subject, and been published in reliable places. If you can't find these, go and do something else, because you will not be able to write an acceptable article.

2. Forget everything you know about the subject, and write a neutrally-worded summary of what those sources say.

Please see WP:YFA for more detail. ColinFine (talk) 13:17, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

You need to establish why Zaid is notable. According to the draft: He's a board member of "OMT SAL", whose own web site says it provides "financial solutions", without explaining what they solve or what services it offers. He was the chairman of the Lebanese office of Opel. He founded a non-notable chamber of commerce to foster trade between two small non-neighbouring countries. He's written two books, but there's no evidence anyone has read either of them. Maproom (talk) 14:11, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Adding images to an article

Hello. I recently deleted the images I had in my article because I wasn't sure if I had uploaded them correctly. I originally uploaded them to wikimedia commons a few months back and guess I had selected "own work". I am not the artist nor did I take the pictures, but I did get permission to use the images. I did not want my error to affect my article so I deleted the images. I then tried to upload directly to wikipedia, but I'm not sure if that is correct either. Would the actual artist or organization which gave permission for the images have to upload the images themselves? I feel like articles about artists really need a few images. Thanks for your help! CrissCollab (talk) 16:32, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

So I just saw my article had been reviewed and I guess everything was okay with the images - do you think I can just add them back? CrissCollab (talk) 16:41, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, CrissCollab. There are two ways for images to be used in English Wikipedia.

The preferred way is to use free images, which can be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. This means either images which are in the public domain (either by explicit statement of the copyright holder, or by reason of their age), or images which the copyright holder has specifically released under a copyleft licence such as CC-BY-SA, which allows anybody to reuse or alter the image for any purpose, requiring only that they attribute the source. This licensing by the copyright holder is required, and "permission" of any other sort, from anybody, is irrelevant.

The second way is that English Wikipedia (unlike some other language versions) allows non-free images to be used in certain restricted ways, as specified in NFCC. Permission from anybody is irrelevant.

So, if your artist is willing to license their work under such a license, then it can be uploaded to Commons. There are three ways they can do this: they can make a public declaration (eg on their website) that it is so licensed; or they can upload the image to Commons themselves, declaring it as their own work, and releasing it; or they can email the WMF as detailed at donating copyright materials. But you cannot do it (though you could be the one to upload it).

If they are not so willing, it is possible that a representative work of the artist might be justified as a non-free image - but not more than one.

See Help:Upload for more. ColinFine (talk) 17:04, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your speedy response! I just want to make sure i'm abiding by the proper rules. I will look into these options. CrissCollab (talk) 17:11, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

@CrissCollab Just to say that we don't allow WP:NONFREE images for living people, so Colin's option 2 is not possible. If you have a good relationship with the individuals and already have permission from them to upload to Commons, you can do that on their behalf and then ask that they email the volunteers at Commons to confirm you have been authorised to do the uploads on their behalf. This is explained at WP:IOWN. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:23, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh, right. Without looking at the article, I assumed this was about pictures of works by an artist. ColinFine (talk) 21:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, you are correct, they are artwork images by an artist. So if the artist themselves have not licenced their images under either wiki commons or creative commons, does that basically mean they cannot be used in my wiki article?

Should I be deleting the images I added to wikicommons then? Colin above mentioned that it does not matter if I had "permission". CrissCollab (talk) 21:45, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

@CrissCollab Apologies, I misunderstood the type of picture you had uploaded. The principles are the same. For File:Prosia DeAnn L Oasis LineEtching 12x12 in 2022.jpg and any others you uploaded, you need to get the artist to email the Commons volunteers from an email address that is obviously personal to them, giving the filenames and your username, saying that they have indeed authorised you to license them for Commons. See WP:IOWN. As we don't allow nonfree images of artwork anywhere except in an article specifically about that artwork, you should not use the files in the meantime. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:14, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much. I have deleted the images for now. I can see if I can get ahold of the artist directly for this, otherwise I guess I will just have to leave off images. Appreciate your help so much! As I'm sure you can tell I'm new to wiki and learning as I go :) CrissCollab (talk) 17:18, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@CrissCollab You deleted the files from the article DeAnn L. Prosia but I'm afraid that is not enough. You must delete them from their storage location on the Wikipedia servers as well, as they are copyright infringements. Include this one you uploaded to en:Wikipedia. Deletion is achieved by placing the template {{Db-g7}} on each file's page. Alternatively, get the artist to approve retention, as I mentioned above. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:22, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Okay got it! I will delete the file. I'm in touch with her gallery to get in touch with the artist directly so hope to have that all cleared up soon. Thank you for your continued help and support! CrissCollab (talk) 14:12, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I just added the template you gave me - I hope I did it correctly. This message comes up now:

This file may meet Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion as a page where the author of the only substantial content has requested deletion or blanked the page in good faith. See CSD G7.

If this file does not meet the criteria for speedy deletion, please remove this notice.

This page was last edited by CrissCollab (contribs | logs) at 14:13, 13 September 2024 (UTC) (0 seconds ago)

@CrissCollab Yes, you did that correctly and the file I linked by the URL is now gone. You need to do the same thing on the files you uploaded to Commons. When deleted, the current blue link to the filename here in this thread will turn red. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:33, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

How to reduce discord between Wikipedians?

There is an article in which one user has been doing some edits that were (IMO) problematic. I posted a (kind and civil, I hope) comment on that user's talk page regarding one of the edits. However another user has responded (to the first user, not to me) with invective, which seems to me to be counter-productive.

Is there anything useful I can contribute to this situation, other than seeing how it plays out?

Thank you for any insight or suggestions you might provide. Trackerwannabe (talk) 17:19, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

The relevant policy is Wikipedia:Civility and the relevant guideline is Wikipedia:Assume good faith. Repeated violations of the civility policy is a blockable offense. Drop a warning on the offender's talk page. The appropriate first-warning template would be {{uw-bes1}}, escalating from there, but there is no requirement to start with level 1 for an egregious offense. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:58, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

I just noticed that the 'victim' has told off his fellow Muslim editor quite effectively and with civility. I see no need for further action except perhaps to issue a warning to the abusive editor, if you feel so inclined. ~Anachronist (talk) 18:05, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Digging a little deeper, I notice that the User in question has a history of responding with invective to polite admonishments on his own Talk page. I have not examined his other contributions in detail; someone else might care to, and to take further action if it seems warranted. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.83.137 (talk) 18:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

If the problem persists, then reporting the behavior at WP:CESSPIT may be in order. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:51, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Editing an entire book plot

Hello! I was looking up a book series that I love, and when I read the plot on Wikipedia for the first book, it was wildly different than the book. If it's a big edit like that, how does that work? It would take an entirely new write up to fix the errors that the current plot description has. Thank you for your help! DannyBearDW (talk) 05:31, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi DannyBearDW. There's some information on this Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Writing about fiction#Contextual presentation, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Novels#Plot and Wikipedia:How to write a plot summary. The key thing to remember is that a "plot summary" is intended to be nothing more than a "summary" of the key parts of the book without adding any personal interpretations to them. It's also not expected to cover every minute detail mentioned in the book. Perhaps by taking a look at Wikipedia:Featured articles#Literature and theatre, you'll find some examples of articles about book series that have been assessed as being very well written and thus possibly good references for how to write a plot summary. You can also ask for assistance at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Books or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Novels to see whether others share your assessment of this particular plot summary and can offer suggestions on how to improve it if they do. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. I will look into those things and see what I can do. :) DannyBearDW (talk) 20:38, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Could you check that your book and the book described by the article are really meant to be the same and not two books that have the same title by random chance from different authorship? 176.0.144.43 (talk) 07:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

The book that I am referring to is book one in a series of 37 books. The characters mentioned in the plot are characters from the series, but some of them are not introduced until much later in the series. Also, some of the plot points are things that happen much later in the series or are about different characters than what is listed currently. The current plot is riddled with spoilers or completely incorrect information. If I hadn't have read all of the books, I would have thought I was looking at the wrong book description for sure. Have you ever heard of this happening before? DannyBearDW (talk) 00:27, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

No,but of the opposite case. A whole book was published and later, in the second edition, it was split into a series for maximum revenue. Of course the plot had to be changed somewhat. 176.0.155.8 (talk) 08:17, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

The current plot is riddled with spoilers

Please be aware that spoilers are not a problem; on the contrary, plot sections are expected to have spoilers. See WP:SPOILER, and do not remove correct content simply because it is a spoiler. CodeTalker (talk) 18:03, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Is there a list of cities notable enough to not include the province/state names in the title?

I noticed recently that most internationally known cities simply have their titles in their names; for example, New York City, Los Angeles, Vancouver, Seoul, Tokyo, Jakarta Rome, and London. Meanwhile, most cities have province/state names in their page titles; for example Albany, New York, Monterey, California, or Victoria, British Columbia. I presume this is because the cities without province/state names are more famous, and because some cities have the same name as another in a different location (such as Albany sharing the name as Albany, Oregon and Albany, Western Australia), but I'm wondering if there is a list of the cities deemed notable enough to not include province/state names. Unnamed anon (talk) 07:00, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Unnamed anon, the fame of the cities is irrelevant. What matters is whether there's another city, of comparable fame, with the same name. Worminghall is not world-famous, and is not a city or even a town, but it's the only place with that name, so no disambiguation is needed. Maproom (talk) 07:47, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

What Maproom says above is correct, and is the answer to your question. What you may however be intuiting is that within the text of a given Wikipedia article, it is often not necessary to provide the state/province name of a well-known city where something happened or is located, unless the context of the wiki article or paragraph is insufficient to indicate which "Albany" (or similar multiple city) is being referred to. Softlavender (talk) 08:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Maproom: and @Softlavender: Thank you for your answers. I assume the "comparable fame" part is why some cities that share its name with another have the most well-known one treated as the primary topic with no province/state in its title? For example, Vancouver, Washington exists, but Vancouver, British Columbia is simply titled "Vancouver", I assume because the Canadian Vancouver is more well known? Similarly, there are about 14 US states with cities named Rome, but the Rome, Laizo in Italy is given precedent and treated as the primary topic? Unnamed anon (talk) 08:35, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Unnamed anon: WP:PRIMARYTOPIC may explain things more, as does the following WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY. Bazza 7 (talk) 09:35, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Unnamed anon, Vancouver is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and likely the only Vancouver most readers have ever heard of (its metro population is more than 10 times that of Vancouver, Washington), and therefore it needs no disambiguation. The same goes for Paris, London, Troy, Athens, Rome, and all other cities that have multiples but only one primary topic. Softlavender (talk) 01:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

United States places are treated as an exception to the rule per WP:USPLACE, but for the rest of the world normal disambiguation is followed. CMD (talk) 08:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Species articles

Just wondering, what is the point of the species articles when Wikispecies exists? CrushedAsian255 (talk) 08:33, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@CrushedAsian255 different sourcing/notability requirements, but more importantly a Wikipedia article like Zebra finch has written prose, more images meant for regular reader. Contrast that with species:Zebra finch circovirus which is a lot more clinical. Or a more fleshed out pairing of Ugandan kob and species:Kobus kob thomasi. Wikidata and Wiktionary overlap with Wikipedia too, but have distinct purposes as well. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 08:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

See more at meta:Wikispecies/FAQ. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:02, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

species:Zebra finch circovirus is about a virus, not a finch. They're much less photogenic. Maproom (talk) 12:13, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Maproom less photogenic ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 20:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Lowercase Sigmabot user talk archiving issue

After some discussion here Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Deal_with_user_talk_pages_that_are_way_too_long, I attempted to fix or add the coding for talkpage archiving to User_talk:Masao and User talk:Dr. Sroy. Someone else had already added the code some time ago but the archiving never worked for some reason. My fixes didn't help matters after I read the bot documentation. I cannot figure out what the problem is. Does anyone else know why the bot is ignoring these pages? Lowercase Sigmabot talkpage says the bot owner cannot help and to ask at the Teahouse for help. Iggy pop goes the weasel (talk) 15:36, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi Iggy pop goes the weasel. Your fixes look right. Archiving only runs once a day and skips some days. User talk:Masao has been archived now. Today's run is ongoing and may still get to User talk:Dr. Sroy. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thank you so much! :D Iggy pop goes the weasel (talk) 20:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Starting a biography page

I have made an account with Wikipedia. My goal is to do a biography of my father who was a major figure in the oil industry in North America...primarily Pennsylvania. Not only is he an oil industry scholar but an expert on John Wilkes Booth. He has published over twenty books on these subjects. Two PA historical societies and a couple museums have agreed to assist me with this page. Here is my dilemma: I am 76 years old and not exactly computer literate and have no clue where to go next with Wikipedia to start the biography. Help please. Mary Jane Miller (talk) 18:16, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Mary Jane Miller: I'll leave some links to guidance on your talk page. We generally discourage people from writing about relatives, but if you are scrupulous in following our guidelines on sourcing and neutrality, you may start the article by following the procedure here where it will remain in draft status until reviewed by a neutral editor. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:27, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Mary Jane Miller, and welcome to the Teahouse. I want to caution you that people who try the challenging task of creating an article before they have spent time learning how Wikipedia works often have a frustrating and miserable time, even without the issue of editing with a conflict of interest. My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft.

When you do come to try writing the draft, you will find that - unexpectedly - what you know about your father cannot go into the article unless it is supported by a reliable published source - and preferably a source wholly unconnected with your father. So the best way that your associates in the historical societies and museum can help you is by identifying sources about your father than meet all the criteria in golden rule: they are published by a reliable publisher, they are wholly unconnected with your father and his associates, and they contain significant coverage of your father. ColinFine (talk) 19:26, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

It would in fact be easier and better for a random person from a foreign country to write the article. Basically all the knowledge you have that is special (to you, to your family, or to the company) is going to get erased from the article anyway, leaving only what any random person can see was printed in the papers at the time those things happened. TooManyFingers (talk) 06:30, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

(This does mean that the more you act like a random person from a faraway country, who knows nothing about your father and can only look through already published materials, the more successful the article would be.) TooManyFingers (talk) 06:48, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Contributions

I want to make a contribution using a check. Would you send me an address, please? 2601:204:100:B1A0:44A0:5697:42F9:1E0F (talk) 19:50, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

We don't handle donations, please see https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give for how to mail a check. Inquiries about donations should be directed to [email protected]. 331dot (talk) 19:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Also note that a scammer could post a false claim here but not at https://donate.wikimedia.org. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:59, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

No original research policy

My grandfather has a page on wikipedia and I was thinking about interviewing him about his life and making some additions to his page based on his responses. Would this violate the no original research policy? I would put the audio recording as a source. Fred Hansen Nfh66 (talk) 22:18, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Nfh66 according to WP:PUBLISHED, as long as it is generally accessible somehow it should work. However, you can't use your grandfather's own words to cite many things in the article about him (see WP:ABOUTSELF). Nevertheless I would support such an interview and it may be also useful outside of Wikipedia. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 22:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello. A raw interview would be a primary source, only useful as described in that policy, and even then you just posting it on the internet somewhere makes it difficult to verify, for example, that it was indeed your grandfather being interviewed. If you were a journalist working for a newspaper, an editor would examine your interview before publishing it. 331dot (talk) 22:35, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Nfh66. For the sake of other readers, your father is an Olympic gold medalist and former world record holder in the pole vault. Those are considerable accomplishments that must be a source of great pride to your father and your whole family. If I was in your shoes, I would approach the editors of various track and field magazines or magazines or journals focused on Olympic athletes. Try to make a deal with one of them to publish your interview with your father. If published in such a magazine or journal, the interview could be used as a reference in your father's biography. There is no doubt that he is notable, and, personally, I hope that you will pursue your project. Cullen328 (talk) 07:01, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

You could also do a video interview and publish it on YouTube, which could be referenced as a primary source. But Cullen326's suggestion above is much better. ~Anachronist (talk) 15:57, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

But that would not count as a reliable source, @Anachronist ColinFine (talk) 16:00, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

It could be used only for verifying for anything the subject says about himself. ~Anachronist (talk) 18:01, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

ratemyprofessors.com

If several students said they're the best professor at (famous university), can I cite ratemyprofessors.com in the professor's bio? Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 00:19, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Allthemilescombined1 no, you shouldn't, since ratemyprofessors isn't a reliable source and so doesn't deserve coverage in the article. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 00:36, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Allthemilescombined1: Welcome to the Teahouse. Going into a little more detail into Sungodtemple's answer, the site isn't a reliable source because its content is user-generated. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:35, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Not a reliable source Tesleemah (talk) 06:22, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

• Hi Allthemilescombined1, user-generated sources and user-reviews can never be used as citations on Wikipedia. For future reference, consult WP:RS. Also, WP:RSN is a noticeboard to ask genuine questions about the reliability or usability of any given source on Wikipedia. Softlavender (talk) 06:31, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

To add to the other answers, the only circumstances in which this might be appropriate is if secondary sources have reported on the RMP ratings (e.g. a newspaper had mentioned their high rating). Cordless Larry (talk) 08:40, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 09:59, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Heraldry of the World

Is Heraldry of the World a reliable source? WikiPhil012 (talk) 00:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

WikiPhil012 it says in the URL that it is a wiki, so no. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 00:36, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Gravitation of The Moon

Please correct this page (first paragraph).— Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.176.122.147 (talk) 03:28, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Gravitation of the Moon Cheers, --The Lonely Pather (talk) 03:32, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

122.176.122.147, If it's a simple and uncontroversial change, you can do it yourself, otherwise you should discuss changes on the talk page of the relevant article, which is Talk:Gravitation of the Moon. — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 04:00, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Bigle Legal article creation

Hello, I would like to ask for help in creating a Wikipedia article. It is about creating a page about the history of the legal tech company Bigle Legal. The draft I proposed was rejected for lack of references, but every piece of information provided in it is referenced by external media and pages.

This is a Spanish software company that has been in the legal technology sector for 10 years and has notoriety in the industry, so I would like to know what kind of sources I should include for it to be considered a notorious article.

I would also like to ask if this is a language conflict: if I were to create the article in Spanish, would the sources already added be valid?

Thank you very much for your help.

Draft:Bigle Legal Beñat Huartemendia (talk) 07:53, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello. I see that you declared a conflict of interest; instead, you need to make the stricter paid editing disclosure, a Terms of Use requirement, as you are an employee of the company.

The Spanish Wikipedia is a separate project, with its own editors and policies, what is acceptable there is not necessarily acceptable here. You would need to ask them about what they consider acceptable.

Wikipedia(this one, at least) is not a place for business to tell about themselves, what they consider to be their own history, and what they do. Wikipedia articles about businesses summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about the business, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable business. You have just described the existence of your company and told what it does, not said what is notable about it according to independent sources.

Sources are not required to be in English, as long as they meet all other requirements of being a reliable source. 331dot (talk) 09:49, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

[Edit Conflict] Beñat Huartemendia, the Draft has not been Rejected (meaning "will likely never become an acceptable article, please give up"), it has been Declined (meaning "not up to standard yet, please improve as suggested and try again").

It was not declined because the references are not correct as far as they go, it was declined because they do not demonstrate Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) (which the Reviewer already linked for you in their assessment) as required by this English-Language Wikipedia. The reviewer mentioned that they were only trivial mentions and routine business reports; en.Wikipedia requires at least three different sources that discuss the subject at some length – substantial paragraphs or whole articles all about the subject – to demonstrate Notability (as Wikipedia uses the term). The sources you already have may be useful to WP:Verify particular facts, but they cannot confirm the notability of the subject as a whole.

Different language Wikipedias have different standards: they are all separate projects. En.Wikipedia is generally considered to have the strictest standards; if you were to submit your draft written in Spanish to the Spanish-language Wikipedia at https://es.wikipedia.org, they might or might not accept it, we here at English Wikipedia cannot say. You are welcome to try to improve your Draft here, or to submit it to es.Wikipedia, or both. Good luck!

(A minor point – in English, 'notorious' and 'notoriety' mean that something is known for bad reasons, not that it is 'notable' or has 'notability'.) {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.83.137 (talk) 10:05, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Relationship to the subject

I would like to write an article about one of the first women to run a political party in the UK as national secretary for the SDP. She was also part of the first women's team to race in the Middle East Rally Championship. However I am related to this woman, so I understand I shouldn't be the one to write the article. But this also means that I am in possession of hard copies of print media from the time that I can use as reference. Whereas as far as I can see, there is barely anything about her in online media.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what to do ? Scripttopage (talk) 08:11, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

You are allowed to create a draft article and submit it through the Articles for Creation process, assuming that you properly declare your conflict of interest. See Wikipedia's conflict of interest guideline, particularly our guidance for writing about your family and friends (and see also Wikipedia's guideline for writing or editing an article about yourself, which has many of the same considerations).

Alternatively, if you say who it is that you think should have an article, it is possible that some other editor may be inspired to create it. (From the details you give I cannot work out who it might be: the only National Secretary for the SDP I can find any information about online is Richard Newby.) For a woman politician, you could try asking at the Women in Red project or the UK Politics project. In that case, it would be helpful to tell other editors where they can find sources - even if they are only available as print media, many editors have access either through their local or institutional libraries, or the Wikipedia Library project. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 09:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Scripttopage and welcome!

You can write the article, but you shouldn't publish it yourself, you should instead prepare a draft and submit it for review through our Articles for Creation (AfC) review system. You can find pretty much everything you need to get started, including an interactive wizard which gets you started on the AfC process, at WP:YFA.

You also need to disclose your conflict of interest (COI). I will post a message on your talk page User talk:Scripttopage with more info on this, and instructions for disclosing.

Bear in mind that Wikipedia articles are mostly composed by summarising what reliable published sources have previously said about a subject. So while you obviously know a lot about this person, you should not include your own commentary, unless this is backed up by published sources. You also need to write in a neutral, factual manner, without any attempt to make the subject appear in a positive (or negative!) light.

Finally, since you mention that some of the sources are not available online, you may find this essay on citing offline sources useful: WP:OFFLINE.

Good luck, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Advice with "Draft:Hector Izquierdo Triana"

I have included WP THREE and more inline citation. Hector is in charge of the reconstruction from a huge natural disaster: this interesting link from National Geographic shows https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/lava-built-this-island-then-entombed-towns-in-stone-feature and it was the beginning because the volcano lasted 85 days. The total damage caused by the volcano amounts up to 1,000 million euros. The lava flow covered over 1,000 hectares (2,500 acres), prompting the evacuation of around 7,000 people. The lava flow was about 3.5 kilometres (2.2 miles) wide at its widest point, about 6.2 kilometres (3.9 miles) long and reached the sea, destroying more than 3,000 buildings. Hector Izquierdo left his job as Secretary of State of Finance in Madrid (which is a great job) to help his people because he was born closed to the volcano and his parents were evacuated. Last month he was awarded as knight with the Grand Cross of the Royal Order of the Civil Merit (it could be, more or less, like the Presidential Medal of Freedom in the United States or Knight of the Order of the British Empire, I could qualify the subject under WP: NBIO. ). You have much much more experience in Wikipedia, could you have a look the draft and tell me what can I do to improve it? Cuentaderevision (talk) 10:41, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Sample: He was Secretary of State for Finance Ministry of Finance, President of the Spanish Tax Agency and Professor at IE Business School. In May 2013 he was Financial Times "Professor of the Week". Well then, what, according to reliable sources, did he do and how did he perform as Secretary of State for Finance Ministry of Finance, President of the Spanish Tax Agency and Professor at IE Business School? What did the FT give as the reason(s) for naming him Prof of the week? Put book titles in italics, not between « » guillemets. And please use Template:ISBN. -- Hoary (talk) 11:35, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much Hoary. I have just followed your instructions and I have put the book titles in italics, used the template ISBN and tried to explain the performance during his career. I really appreciate it, the draft has improved with your tips and advices. Cuentaderevision (talk) 10:35, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Cuentaderevision Draft:Hector Izquierdo Triana revised and resubmitted, but a question: there is now what looks like a very professional photograph that you claim as "own work", dated 2021. Is this true? And what is your professional/personal connection to Triana, if any? David notMD (talk) 13:48, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much David, I don´t have much experience and your advices are helpful. No, there is not professional/personal connection with Triana. The photo was done at the presentation of one of his books 4 or 5 years ago. I had a very good impression that day because from that date I think that he is a committed person. In Spain there are many professional politicians (I mean, the policy as a profession) but Triana has his own career and he has put it aside for public service for a period of time. You know, later I found out that Triana had been in India working on a mission of the Society of Jesus and in Ghana with the IE Business School in a microcredit program. Thank you again, I really appreciate your help. 83.33.136.131 (talk) 10:22, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Unable to upload image to my article

I've been tasked to create a Wikipedia page for a late Professor Olayinka Odewale, firstly I don't know if creating a wikipedia page for him aligns with Wikipedia's guidelines. My main question is relating to the uploading of a petrait of the prof. I get an error when I try to upload it.

I wanted share a screenshot of the error and share that, but even uploading that is somehow not allowed. Any advice would be appreciated. Brianmvk11 (talk) 10:50, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. If you are trying to upload the image to this Wikipedia itself, new accounts cannot do that. If you personally took the image of the professor, you can upload it to Commons. If you didn't personally take it, it would be harder to upload it. The good news is that images are not relevant to the draft submission process(via the article wizard), which only considers the text and sources. You can worry about images later.

Note that you will need to provide sources for your information, see Referencing for beginners. You will need to show that the professor meets the definition of a notable academic narrowly or more broadly a notable person.

Whom tasked you with this work? 331dot (talk) 10:56, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

A friend asked me to do it for his boss, but I'm not sure if the prof is a notible person. I guess I have to do a bit of research. Thank you for the info and the quick response! Brianmvk11 (talk) 11:16, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Should you pursue this further, you will need to declare a conflict of interest. You may want to show your friend WP:BOSS as well. 331dot (talk) 11:19, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

And you should probably check Wikipedia:Notability (academics). DS (talk) 14:40, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

On tagging

Hello, @Johnuniq and (less tactfully) @Softlavender have noted that my tagging efforts may have issues, so I would like to get an understanding on how to proceed further. I've cobbled together a python script (will clarify even if I hope it's obvious with the edits I've made that I'm not running an unauthorized bot) that spits out a "link density" ratio, and while I wish I had the technical skills to refine the results, I feel like I've been able to bring attention to a lot of very old pages (pretty much every page I edited in the last day or so was created before 2005) that are in need of such. I'm aware of the issues, though apparently not enough, about overtagging, I "clearly" feel like they were constructive (or else why would I have made the edit?), but some apparently disagree, so I would like to know in particular which of my edits contained "bogus tags". Akaibu (talk) 11:32, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I looked at your list of contributions and picked this. As I look at the article I notice no shortage of internal links. I'm puzzled by the addition of the template and not surprised by its removal. -- Hoary (talk) 11:45, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh is that why I've had so many watchlist notifications about this category. @Akaibu, I think you might want to tweak the script a bit so that it takes the size of the article into consideration? A much longer article, if it's not repeating the same wikilinks over and over, will naturally have a lower link density than a shorter one. -- asilvering (talk) 12:18, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Hoary @Asilvering while yes I agree the case of Fresnel's article is already pretty well linked, it nonetheless showed up as among some of the lowest that my script has found(in the lowest 5k out of the ~million pages scanned so far), I will note that there are a number of references to "biaxial" of various nature, of which Index ellipsoid looks to have a redirect of that name, is not linked on Fresnel's article, and in fact does mention Fresnel in the article itself. I'm not sure where exactly this should/would be reference, but that's one of the reason I added these templates, is that they bring eyes to an issue, the underlinked template is in fact a newcomer task and many of the pages I've put it on has had plenty of productive edits made by other newcomers(I still regard myself as such). Akaibu (talk) 13:12, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Akaibu: The instructions for {{underlinked}} say there is no consensus on what constitutes "too few" links. Use editor discretion: you should not just be blindly tagging articles based on the output of a script. The fact that an article is in the lowest 0.5% for link density is not sufficient information to judge whether or not it is underlinked to the point of needing a cleanup tag. It would be much more useful for you to find one article which you think on your own judgement is underlinked, and then add some needed links, than it is for you to blindly tag any number of articles.

In general both script-assisted editing and adding maintenance tags are things which are probably better off left to people who have some experience with Wikipedia. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 15:37, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Caeciliusinhorto-public I'll agree that there isn't a minimum amount of links required for a page, however, I've found that low link density can be a sign of other problems, such as the case of me tagging Acoustic theory being far too technical, as well as despite describing a "field of study", makes no mention on who is part of this field(i.e. a history of the field of study), etc.

Basically, I'm not blindly tagging upon the list, but using it as a metric to have people look closer at pages that have been overlooked(this page for example has been mostly unchanged since 2008). Akaibu (talk) 16:12, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Akaibu, the people who will mostly be directed to a page when you use the "underlinked" tag are newcomers using their newcomer homepage suggestions to make easy edits. You might get some more attention to the overlooked parts of the article like this, but mostly the editors going through that tag will be looking for easy fixes to do while they dip their toes into wikipedia editing. If your script turns up some article that isn't actually all that underlinked, but could use some other attention, just tag with the other relevant maintenance tags so it gets to the right editors. (Well, hopefully.) By the way, if you find articles that aren't in any wikiprojects, that's often a reason for them being unattended, and adding the relevant wikiprojects can help sort them into the right maintenance queues. -- asilvering (talk) 19:17, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Akaibu, I recommend that you slow way down with your tagging and carefully examine each article first, and only tag when you are reasonably sure that other editors would agree. "Link density" is not a concern that I have heard in 15 years of editing. If you think that an article is underlinked, by far the best thing for you to do is add some wikilinks instead of tagging it. Cullen328 (talk) 17:53, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I have heard many concerns about link density – but only when there are too many. Usually these are placed by someone who wants to inflate the importance of their subject, or by someone who is just eager to add links. I have never heard a complaint of too few links. TooManyFingers (talk) 19:36, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Page about a cult marked as promotion

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone could consider a page about a cult to be a promotion. When we use the word "cult" in the English language it usually refers to a dangerous cult, so I don't see why anyone would write a page to promote it. Why is it being marked as such? Grad0507 (talk) 13:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Anything can be promoted(though you don't tell which article you're referencing). Perhaps the person who marked the article is promotional is concerned that a dangerous cult is being promoted(even if that's not the intention). 331dot (talk) 13:56, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Which article are you referring to? An article about a cult can be promotional if it says positive things without providing sources. Or something can be promoted as a cult that wasn't traditionally a cult (I've seen this charge in the media recently in reference to the US Republican Party). ~Anachronist (talk) 15:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot to link it here: Draft: Kevin Trudeau's Global Information Network (GIN). I provided sources though I've been told they weren't enough. Grad0507 (talk) 13:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I can see why you're confused but also I understand completely why the declining editor marked that draft as "advert". Take the "GIN Lifestyle" section, for example. It looks like you've taken this section directly from the website? I expect you probably thought something like "the website of the cult is a reliable source for information about what the cult says their lifestyle is like, so it's fine to use this". You're correct that you can source a statement like "the website lists various kinds of membership benefits, such as group meetings" with a footnote to the website itself. But if you copy the text like that, you have two problems: one, you might be violating copyright; two, what you put in the article now sounds like "website copy", which isn't encyclopedic and will get reviewers tagging your draft as an advert like this. -- asilvering (talk) 19:25, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

If I copy anything it's in quotation marks. You can go to the website itself to search for the text in this article, and you won't find anything. So how do I change the tone so that bots and people like yourself don't flag my own voice? Would it help if I moved the lifestyle portion to the cult section to prove how much of a typical member's life revolves around the organization? Grad0507 (talk) 19:31, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

The best way: Stop looking at their website, and switch to using third-party published reports about them. TooManyFingers (talk) 19:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Bingo. -- asilvering (talk) 19:49, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

US Migrant Crisis

Is there an article on wikipedia about this? I couldnt find one and i would be interested in creating one. SunnyScion (talk) 15:38, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Depends what you're looking for:

• 2014 American immigration crisis
• Migrant crisis
• Mexico–United States border crisis

Consider expanding one of those as appropriate. ~Anachronist (talk) 15:49, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

The last one is what i was looking for. Thx! SunnyScion (talk) 16:16, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

How does wikipedia prevent political or religious bias from affecting accuracy of information?

see above Tomsinsky (talk) 16:05, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Tomsinsky We don't aim to remove bias, since everyone has some sort of bias. However, as editors it is our policy to represent neutrally the opinions expressed in reliable sources. If there are two equally valid opinions, then the article can and should represent them both, without false balance. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:18, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Bias has been eliminated by the principle of Neutral Point of View (NPV) Tesleemah (talk) 09:53, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it's true to say that Wikipedia is free from bias, Tesleemah. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:48, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I was emphasising on the standard and the guideline of editing on Wikipedia. Perhaps you can tell me more about what you meant. Tesleemah (talk) 21:54, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I had in mind the issues documented in Gender bias on Wikipedia and Racial bias on Wikipedia, for instance. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:12, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

how do you edit

ihnbjl 167.88.225.4 (talk) 16:36, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

IP editor. Please see Help:Introduction for a tutorial. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:15, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Including a draft in a WikiProject?

Hi all- I am a newer editor and I'm not sure when it's appropriate to add/contribute to a WikiProject. I originally wrote an article draft for author Andrew Joseph White, which was labeled too soon, but another editor suggested I instead write an article about his most famous novel. I've written and submitted a draft, but I don't have the bandwidth right now to continue to expand it myself if it is sent back for more edits. Would it be appropriate to label the draft as part of the WikiProject:Books or WikiProject:Horror, for example? The intention would be drawing more eyes to the page in hope someone else could provide support. If it is appropriate, am I allowed to add the draft to the project myself, or would I need to propose the draft on the WikiProject talk page? Beckbucket (talk) 16:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Beckbucket At the upper part of your submitted draft, you'll find a line that says "Improving your odds of a speedy review". Click on "show" and you'll find it reveals a tool to help you add relevant Project tags to the draft. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:14, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Assistance with Source Editor

I mostly use the visual editor because I find that's what's easiest for me to work in. Some pages only allow the source editor for whatever reason. I have a really hard time navigating through it on some longer pages. Are there any tools available to help make source editing more like visual editing? I think I could fumble my way through the source editor if I had a tool to help keep the source/preview windows moving in lock step so I can at least keep them mostly lined up and not get lost swimming around a sea of apostrophes and brackets. Mintopop (talk) 16:53, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Mintopop Help:Introduction has a full tutorial on the source editor. There is in fact a toggle (top right in the editing window) that allows you to preview the text as you type. Like most editing features, it is much easier on a PC than on a mobile phone. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:01, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

If you do not feel like using the tutorial, try copying the style other users have used. That is how I learned how to write titles. Drdr150 (talk) 18:17, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I think clicking forwards (as if to publish, but without clicking the final button), reading the potential result, and then clicking backwards to edit again, would be a lot easier and better than trying to synchronize anything.

Or just get used to apostrophes and brackets. TooManyFingers (talk) 19:54, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Mintopop: Welcome to the Teahouse.
Some pages only allow the source editor for whatever reason.
Some namespaces suppress the use of the visual editor, such as Wikipedia:. You can force it by appending &veaction=edit to the end of whatever page URL you're on in the address bar, but functionality may be limited as its use doesn't extend to those namespaces and you'd have to do it every time. I'd definitely recommend previewing what you're editing in source mode if you're unfamiliar with it, or if you're just in spaces like Talk: to post comments, just stick with using the reply tool. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:58, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

it's much easier to use on desktop than mobile, to use on mobile. You might need to check how same edit is done previously. Tesleemah (talk) 09:51, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Issues with translating articles

So I have been trying to translate some articles, specifically into Cherokee Wikipedia. I successfully translated the article on camels and the article on Vatovia into Cherokee. However, when I tried to translate the articles about Augustus and Hitler, it created a whole new article, not a translated form of the original article. For reference, here is the translated article about Hitler: Ꭰ⁠Ꮩ⁠l⁠f⁠ ⁠Ꭿ⁠Ꮮ⁠r. Can someone tell me why this is happening? Thanks. RedactedHumanoid (talk) 18:15, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

If this wording doesn't make sense, in a nutshell, I translated the article about Hitler into Cherokee wikipedia, but the article on Cherokee wikipedia isn't showing up when I click on the other languages tab in the article about Hitler on English Wikipedia. RedactedHumanoid (talk) 18:17, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

To connect different languages you have to edit the entry in Wikidata. In this case I added the entry on chr for Hitler to wikidata:Q352, you can do the same for other articles by finding the "Wikidata item" link for an article on the sidebar and adding the article name to the list of Wikipedia pages at the bottom. Reconrabbit 18:50, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Article declined

Is there a place that I could get my article and references reviewed before submitting it into Wikipedia as I have already submitted once and have been declined? 198.52.165.99 (talk) 18:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, IP user.

In short, no. The place where you go to get your article and references reviewed is: article review. We don't general do a "pre-review".

However, having looked at Draft:Infinite Universe Theory, I will tell you that it doesn't look like an encyclopaedia article to me.

To create a Wikipedia article:

1. Find several independent reliable sources about the subject. If the subject of the article is to be a theory, nothing written or published by the people or team who originated the theory is relevant here: it must be independent writing about the theory. If you can't find several such sources, give up this article, as it is not possible.
2. Forget everything you know about the subject, and write a neutral summary of what those sources say. Do not attempt to argue, compare, or reach conclusions, or to address or teach the reader: simply summarise what those indpendent sources say.

More generally, when editors attempt to create an article without first spending a significant amount of time "learning on the job" how Wikipedia works by making many edits, they usually have a frustrating and miserable time, because they don't understand the criteria and standards. My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft. ColinFine (talk) 19:13, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Do not resubmit until you learn how to reference properly. Practice creating refs in your Sandbox, copying into your draft only after those are properly formatted. David notMD (talk) 19:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

 Note: The draft in question has been deleted for unambiguous copyright infringement. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 05:00, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Not really a question; just wanted to announce I am still here

Hello. I know this isn’t the place for such a thing but I don’t knwo where else to go. this is the second account of User:Wolfquack. No I‘M not an impersonation, I am THEE Wolfquack (as if I was of such a title). The reason I’m making this is to just let some of my wiki friends know why I’ve been on a hiatus despite novody asking me.

You see I never linked my email with my account as I was afraid of Spam (the food and the mail), so I left it out. Then one day I was deleting some passwords to accounts on separate websites when I accidentally deleted my password. Way-ago right? After that I gave up editing- I had nearly 500 edits and all that away in a literal snap.

I hope the members here allow me to break the rule of not Q&A’ing just this once. I am largely inactive and if anybody is wondering why my editing skills appear a tad rusty it’s because I really haven’t honed in my skills in over a year. So if you notice me not being the most proffesional, that is why, and by all means correct me on my talk.
Anyhow I hope every has a good day. Wolfquack2 (talk) 21:38, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

What punctuation should come before "style"?

Template:Pizza in the United States has a mix of dashes and hyphens in front of the word style. For instance California-style pizza but New York–style pizza. I don't really care which is right, but having a mix in the navigation box is bothersome. ☆ Bri (talk) 22:45, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Both of those are correct. When one or both of the terms in an adjectival compound like that are themselves open compounds (e.g., "New York"), an en dash is used instead of a hyphen (see MOS:AFFIXDASH). Deor (talk) 23:24, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Nobility

Does reliable sources like CBC and CTV make a subject, which normally would not be noble enough, meet Wikipedia's nobility laws? WikiPhil012 (talk) 23:44, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

WikiPhil012 yes, they would make a subject notable, if they also meet the significant coverage and independent sourcing requirements and you had 1-2 more of them. If you are working on a draft article, feel free to link it here and we can provide some advice. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 23:55, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes!..

So far these sources are reputable and cover the subject independently. Tesleemah (talk) 09:48, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

User claims he's the author and wrote the book (which the Wikipedia page is about)

Hello,

I was checking the recent edits to help catch any vandalism when I saw this edit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Gray_Man_(novel)&oldid=1245603944 "(The following is not the plot of the book- This looks like it's been created by AI and it's completely wrong (This is Mark Greaney, and I wrote the novel))"

By 73.5.10.191 (talk · contribs), who claims they are the author of the book. I'm not sure what to do here - This doesn't feel like pure vandalism but also this could very well be a troll. Hopefully someone more experience with this type of stuff can help?

Thanks!

Justanotherinternetguy (talk) 00:01, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

@Justanotherinternetguy If they believe the plot is bad, they are free to change it. The warning should obviously not be part of the article, so I reverted it. They can also bring it up to the talk page.

Since they claim to be the author, I have left a COI notice on their talk page. win8x (talking | spying) 00:11, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

It could easily be a troll, but that plot summary does really smell like AI, and it was only recently added by an IP editor who has made no other edits. We lose very little if it is removed, and may be spreading outright falsehoods if it is not, so I removed it from the article. -- asilvering (talk) 00:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I checked on GPTZero and it indeed is AI generated - A noob who just joined the AI wikiproject SecretSpectre (talk) 09:15, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Be careful with that - GPTZero will also ding real, human-created text as AI generated. -- asilvering (talk) 14:41, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Based on your username it seems like you are writing an article about yourself?

I am writing a biography for a magician "Alan Magic" and my article is not being published for the comment " it seems like you are writing an article about yourself? " but i am not writing about myself what should I do? I linked to the sandbox page below

Sandbox: User:AlanMagic1999/sandbox#Alan Magic AlanMagic1999 (talk) 01:25, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

AlanMagic1999: Please read our Username policy. If you are not Alan Magic, then your username looks like impersonation and you must choose a different one. — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 02:41, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi!

This is because your username is the same as the author, you can request to change your username, also you might need to put a disclaimer going forward. Tesleemah (talk) 09:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Noticing potential BLP violation as a new editor

I'm new to Wikipedia and came across an article with a recent change [3] that I think could be a WP:BLP violation. I don't think I understand the policy enough to do a revert or make changes, but also don't want to leave the page without knowing for sure (if it is a vio, it needs to be removed, ..). Also, I saw the noticeboard says to try and work things out on the talk page first, but I don't know how much attention just a post there would get. What should I do? / Tips? FifthFive (talk) 01:51, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Better links:

diff - [4]

page - Yasmine Mohammed FifthFive (talk) 01:51, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

The text added says (if I may summarize) that she "has been accused of advancing Islamophobic views". It's phrased dispassionately and cites sources. What's the problem here? -- Hoary (talk) 02:56, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

But while we're here, it does look to me to be a real problem that the "early life" section is entirely sourced to her own autobiography. The text is clear that it's her autobiography, but there are some pretty eyebrow-raising claims in here, like Mohammed states that the judge ruled that because her family was Arab, they had the right to discipline her in that manner. -- asilvering (talk) 15:31, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

While I would personally strongly dispute the use of the word "phobia" to describe any person who has not been diagnosed with that particular phobia by the appropriate medical professional, in general the new part of the article is perfectly appropriate in my opinion.

(My complaint about that word, though I consider it valid, has been shouted down for so long in so many situations by so many people that the complaint no longer really counts for anything. "Phobia" has falsely come to mean "prejudice" because people – many of whom really have been seriously oppressed and mistreated and who are right to fight against it – consider it an advantage to mischaracterize oppressors and abusers as sick, rather than as dishonest and immoral. Maybe they think people are too stupid or impatient to understand the real problem, but in the end they're fighting against prejudice by creating more prejudice, and intentionally perpetuating the existing prejudice against anyone who is mentally ill.)

Anyway ... I think the subject of the article would freely admit the truth of most of what has been added there, but probably has some major explaining ahead of her regarding these published false claims about her being a professor, why didn't she tell them "stop calling me a professor", etc. TooManyFingers (talk) 15:25, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Questions on Article Deletion Policy

Is the consensus for notable but undeveloped pages to be keep, delete, or draftify?. I'll use an example as my question. Let's say article "Bob Smith" exists. Bob is notable per guidelines and has sources that are not on the page. However, Bob's page is undeveloped and currently does not have enough sources on the page to pass the notability guidelines. Enough sources exist, but they aren't on the page. Somebody nominates it for deletion. Person A says keep and argues that Bob is notable per guidelines and that these sources exist; they just haven't been found/integrated yet. Person B says it should be deleted it is unsourced. Who is correct?

Secondly, are there things such as Nobel Prize/Olympic Medal Winners etc. that automatically confer notability, regardless of sources? Or do these things only strongly suggest that sourcing will be there, without automatically conferring notability?

Finally, are all these things set in stone, or is there no consensus answer to these questions?

Thank you :) Bres2 (talk) 02:13, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

1. Neither. It's wrong to delete an article because it's currently unsourced. It's worthless to claim that sources must exist but that you don't know what or where they are. 2. Regardless of the sources provided for these awards? No. Please see Wikipedia:Notability and the associated pages to which it links. -- Hoary (talk) 02:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Image

Are images, whether it be a flag or a coat of arms, on the The Public Register of Arms, Flags, and Badges of Canada website free or not? WikiPhil012 (talk) 02:59, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

As this page explains, no, they're not free in the sense required by Wikipedia. -- Hoary (talk) 05:06, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Draft deletion

Hi, I had created few drafts earlier — This and That but, I couldn't find enough sources to establish its notability. Now, I want those drafts should get deleted. Is it possible.? if yes. then, guide me how to nominate those drafts for deletion. Thanks. —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 06:33, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Perfectodefecto: I have tagged those drafts for speedy deletion by an administrator – see § Requesting speedy deletion for instructions if you have other drafts you want deleted. — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 06:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Got it. Many Thanks. —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 06:59, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

For future reference, if you are the author of a page that nobody else has edited, or other people have made only minor edits to it, then you can put the tag {{db-author}} at the top, and an administrator will come along eventually and delete it. ~Anachronist (talk) 20:40, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Dialogue in writing

Hi, I found an article from the task centre, Dialogue in writing, and have been working on it and hopefully improving it. I have somehow indented part of the page, and I can't see how to reverse it. Also, (regarding a different article), what's the best way to add categories - is there a big list somewhere? thanks Blackballnz (talk) 06:38, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

When you put a blockquote, you must later put /blockquote to show where that quotation ends. (They both need the angled signs, you'll know what I mean). Also, it appears you may have fixed up the quotation marks by making them curly. Please "un-fix" those by putting the straight ones back again - Wikipedia only uses the straight type of quotation marks, for technical reasons. TooManyFingers (talk) 06:50, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I missed a couple of things: 1) If you forget to end one of your blockquote sections, the entire rest of the article may be turned into a quotation, as you saw. 2) I don't know anything about categories, sorry. TooManyFingers (talk) 06:57, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Blackballnz, thank you for your work. The matter of selecting appropriate categories tends to be hard for new editors, a lot easier with even a little experience. Dialogue in writing is a somewhat abstract subject, which will make category selection a lot harder than if the article were instead something "concrete" (?), like a model of car, a painting, or baseball player. I suggest that you skip categorization for this article, practise it on another, and then perhaps return to this article in order to categorize it. -- Hoary (talk) 07:09, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for this - the article I want to put categories on is this one Katherine Heiny, but I don't know how to do that. Blackballnz (talk) 22:18, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I did the "Example" section to show you. TooManyFingers (talk) 07:41, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I'll continue tidying up. I'm not sure about the difference between curly and straight quotation marks - can you show me what they look like so I don't do that again. Blackballnz (talk) 22:17, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

" ' (The ones we want, whether for quotation marks or apostrophes)

“ ” ‘ ’ (The ones we don't want)

If you are using a word processor, it may have an easy-to-use control or preference to turn OFF "Smart quotes". That might be easier than having to correct afterwards by hand.

If you're typing directly to Wikipedia, then just use the ordinary quotation mark and apostrophe keys on your keyboard, without doing the special keystrokes required to get fancy marks.

I hope that makes sense and actually works for you. TooManyFingers (talk) 00:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for all your help. I've left a msg on the talk page as well. The article has been improved, although I'm sure there could be more to add. Should I go ahead and remove the maintenance tag, or leave it to someone else? Blackballnz (talk) 06:31, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Helping a new Wikipedian

I have an issue of notability lacking reliability sources. I was attempting to edit Magic: The Gathering Commander and add cEDH to the variant section. My issue is that it has been almost exclusively community built with significant communities on Reddit, forums and discords but has lacked an official presence up until the last few years. As an example, CCS Summer Showdown cEDH 10k was a tournament a few months ago. This has created a lack of official sources on the topic. I've consulted both the perennial source list, WikiProject Board and table games and the WikiProject Video games to find any reputable sources on the topic and haven't found any. I was also directed here to seek help. What would be recommended to follow from here? I have the edit saved on my sandbox page and don't know how to link it currently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WordyTalks (talk • contribs) 07:25, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

WordyTalks Hello and welcome. I'll link to your sandbox, it's done the same as any other internal link, which you've already done, User:WordyTalks/sandbox. The reply on your user talk page pretty much tells the story, if you have no independent reliable sources that discuss this variant of the game, it would not merit a Wikipedia article at this time. User-generated websites are not considered reliable sources. 331dot (talk) 07:40, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

331dot Thanks for your response. I'm still trying to figure this out so any assistance is appreciated. Is there any allowed space for sources that are less than official sources like Wizards of the Coast? CEDH has been almost entirely community-oriented being an unsanctioned format of Magic: The Gathering and lacks the official status that say Standard or Modern has in the landscape of Magic: The Gathering. This makes the availability of more reliable sources comparative to more official sources less likely to exist. Is there a method to resolve that issue or is it just a SOL situation? WordyTalks (talk) 02:58, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

There may be other websites with less stringent requirements where you could post about this game variant, I don't know what those are; maybe you could start a Fandom wiki for this information, or there is already one. If a topic is not discussed in independent reliable sources, it can't have an article here. That's just the way it is. 331dot (talk) 08:05, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

WordyTalks, you'll need to find an acceptable source, as explained by 331dot. But it doesn't need to be "official". Maybe WotC ignores or even disparages this variant; other reliable published sources can still be acceptable. Maproom (talk) 08:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is extra strict about trustworthy sources, sources that have an editorial staff and they fact-check everything and they have a big reputation for accuracy. Wikipedia does not care if something is official to the game company. So, for an extreme example, if six major trusted newspapers publish some things the company doesn't like, it goes in the article. But if I am a universally acknowledged master of the game who understands it better than the designers do, my blog doesn't count, because I don't have editorial staff and fact checkers and I don't have a public reputation outside the game. TooManyFingers (talk) 14:22, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Mass-rollback

Could this IP's disruptive template changes be mass-rollbacked? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/103.205.69.11&target=103.205.69.11&offset=&limit=500 --FMSky (talk) 08:28, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Looks like they have been. See the contribution history you linked. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:03, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

alright thx — Preceding unsigned comment added by FMSky (talk • contribs) 14:16, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Draft with Redirect for creation

Hi, I've created this draft without knowing multiple names of the subject— Angustus Labyrinthus. I had searched with "Inca City" on Wikipedia but, found nothing. Now, what should I do.? Should I submit it inserting a redirect link to the main article.? or, should I nominate it for the speedy deletion.? —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 11:26, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

@Perfectodefecto If I were you, I'd use the template {{Db-G7}} to delete your draft. You don't need permission to create redirects in mainspace (although they do get reviewed by the WP:NPP). So you can then directly create the redirect as {{R from alternative name}}, which seems reasonable given the content at Angustus Labyrinthus. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:40, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Got it. Many Thanks. —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 11:47, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Newbie- New Musician Page

Hello, newbie here so thanks in advance for your help. There is no article for jazz musician - Theo Saunders - however he is credited on a Bill Evans album (Ted Saunders ) but has since changed his name to Theo. I am just trying to start a new page for him that will likely take me years. BUT There is no other “red link” to create a page from his current name. However, there are two links on wiki referring to him, and current name but no link in red or blue in order to create a new article. Sorry for my ignorance- recovering from surgery and not on a laptop, so mobile device options likely limited. I would love to just start the page today. I understand every sentence needs a reliable neutral source - this is fairly easy in his case given the volume of articles and recordings accessible.

• Pierce Street Jazz
• Zan Stewart
• Ted Saunders
• https://theosaunders.com/theography

-- Sentil08 (talk) 16:14, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Sentil08, to establish that he's notable, you'll need reliable independent published sources with extensive discussion of him. None of the sources listed above qualify — the first three aren't reliable (anyone can write anything in WIkipedia), and the fourth is not independent. I strongly recommend assembling some good sources before you start writing. Once you're ready to start, just click on Theo Saunders and start writing. Maproom (talk) 16:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, thank you makes sense. I did not provide the links as “reliable sources” for the ultimate public page. I provided them to try to understand how to start the page from those links -given that his name was not linked in red. Again, excuse my ignorance, I guess I can just start without using a red link for his name? There should be no problem, citing reliable sources. He’s all over the Internet has played with all the greatest jazz musicians but is nowhere to be seen on wiki. Sentil08 (talk) 16:56, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Sentil08, and welcome to the Teahouse. You're probably not going to want to hear this advice, but: My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft.

The evidence is that editors who don't do this often have a miserable and frustrating time, because they don't understand what they're trying to do or why it is not succeeding. ColinFine (talk) 17:50, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for this great advice. I’m sure this is by far the best way to go about it. I was just hoping to start a draft -with title only today. Sentil08 (talk) 19:19, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

My First Edit

I just completed my first edit. I'm not sure if I did it correctly. I don't know how to get rid of the numbers in brackets within the part I edited, so I just moved some of them way from the text of my edit. Also, the only source of my information is the King James Version of the Holy Bible. I don't think there's a copyright on God's word. Can someone please take a look at it and tell me if I did it right? It's important to both me and God that it is accepted and published. Thanks in advance. MLP Millard Lewis Powers (talk) 17:50, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

No, I'm afraid you did not do it right. You removed material cited to a source, and added different material not cited to a source. Both of these are no-nos.

Wikipedia articles are summaries of what reliable sources say on a matter, nothing more. If you dispute that a given source meets Wikipedia's criteria for being reliable, or you believe that the article does not accurately summarise what the source says, then you should open a discussion on the article's talk page. But you are not entitled to remove material merely because you think it is wrong.

Having said that - if you have other reliable sources which say something different then it is possible that the article could summarise them as well, and it is an editorial decision whether to grant more or less weight to different sources. But again, you should start a discussion on the talk page for that.

Bibles and other scriptures are regarded as primary sources, and can be cited only for their text, and not for any kind of interpretation or exegesis: see WP:RSPSCRIPTURE. ColinFine (talk) 19:13, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I see that you reverted your own edit: thank you. Please look at WP:BRD for how we reach consensus. ColinFine (talk) 19:14, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

A serial reverter just reverted me. How do I address it graciously?

I checked the talk page for someone who just now reverted me, and the person seems to be a serial reverter who has even gotten into edit wars. Hmmm, I do know better than to pick an argument with such an individual, but I also am pretty sad that I've now been reverted two times by people who have a history of uncivil behavior in this space. I want to stick up for myself, but I want to do it both kindly and effectively. What are my best alternatives? (For now I'm just asking about the most recent reversion. The other one happened this summer.) Fortunaa (talk) 20:35, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

See handling edit war guideline and proceed to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring if it continues. --Ratekreel (talk) 20:41, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Good question. It would be helpful if you looked at the edit summary of this 'serial reverter'. Looking at your contribution history, it seems that this is the edit that was reverted. The reasoning is given in the revert summary here: WP:RELIABLESOURCE needed.

This was a valid revert. You made an assertion that cannot be verified because you did not provide a reliable source to verify it. On Wikipedia, you cannot write what you know (this is considered WP:Original research and is disallowed), you must write what reliable sources say. In this case, however, you were simply stating what another article already states, so you would be OK reverting it back, with an explanation. In fact, I will do so. ~Anachronist (talk) 20:49, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Actually, I may have acted too soon. You created the Lagenlook article, and I cannot see that the sources you cite support the assertion you're making. ~Anachronist (talk) 20:52, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for answering so quickly. It was an earlier reversion, not the two that happened after it. Sorry I wasn't clear! Somebody else legitimately reverted me after I posted here, and actually I see what I did wrong. Wow, this feels like getting my car hit three times, but I think I know how to fix it. I'm amazed that I didn't realize the need to cite each change. Duh! Thank you for your patient and thorough reply. Fortunaa (talk) 01:18, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

"Geoffrey Kabat" Wikipedia page

I am asking you to please study the material that I have posted over the past 2 months on the "Talk" page for "Geoffrey Kabat." Therein I have, on several occasions, with increasing detail and increasing documentation tried to explain that the article is TOTALLY one-sided and cites only derogatory sources (which are extremely political in nature), while ignoring very strong evidence that tells a different story. So far, after two months of posting these comments, I have gotten almost no response. My most recent posts are the most comprehensive and tell the story with documentation. I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely, Geoffrey Kabat Gkabat (talk) 21:16, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

@Gkabat: The Teahouse isn't really set up to deal with requests like yours. You'll probably have a much better chance of getting assistance on one of the more specific noticeboards listed at Wikipedia:Noticeboards. Please don't make essentially the same request simultaneously, though, on multiple noticeboards because this will just make things confusing and might lead some to believe that you're forum shopping. Read the description for each noticeboard given at the top of its page and decide which one best deals with the problems you're having. In addition, please remember that all Wikipedians are WP:VOLUNTEERs and someone might not immediately respond to your post. Nobody posting here has any connection to the Wikimedia Foundation or speaks on their behalf; so, if you're looking for that, see foundationsite:About/Contact. If you do decide to post on a noticeboard, I suggest avoiding WP:SHOUTING and any kind of legal terminology when making your request because either could easily be misconstrued. As long as you remain WP:CIVIL, others will respond similarly; if, however, you start to get accusatory, then the responses you receive will likely reflect that. Finally, please also remember that Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons applies not only to what's written about you on Wikipedia, but also what you might write about others on any Wikipedia page and be very careful not to fun afoul of WP:OUTING when posting. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:26, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for this, Marchjuly. I have been very careful to be civil and to try to explain my issue. Could you possibly take a look at the 2 or 3 most recent posts on the "Talk:Geoffrey Kabat" page and suggest what route would be most appropriate for me to take. It's very hard for an outsider to understand the workings of Wikipedia and how get a one-sided and unfair portrayal of my work corrected. This has been up there since 2025 from what I can tell.

Thanks in advance,

Geoffrey Kabat Gkabat (talk) 23:04, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

A careful look shows that you are (either mainly or entirely) in the wrong, and need to step back. 1) Wikipedia requires independent reliable references without personal testimony; 2) it is ethically wrong to try to clear someone's name regarding something that they did in fact do. TooManyFingers (talk) 00:34, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

@Gkabat: Assuming that your username is authentic, then perhaps the best next step for you to take is to go to major news outlets with this revelation. When they've printed it, Wikipedia will follow. TooManyFingers (talk) 02:06, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

I neglected to add "... under their byline, as a factual report in which they exonerate you, not as an op-ed or a letter" TooManyFingers (talk) 02:11, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

@Gkabat: You might want to read Wikipedia:FAQ/Article subjects. jlwoodwa (talk) 06:09, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it's appropriate for you to suggest that Wikipedia can avoid taking responsibility for this wholesale distortion. I've put in hours of work to explain where the error lies. I've provided credible documentation from respected sources (editors at the British Medical Journal and published scientific papers). SOMEONE AT WIKIPEDIA NEEDS TO TAKE A CAREFUL LOOK AT THIS, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY, AND OUTLINE THE STEPS TO CORRECT THIS ARTICLE. Can you please bring this to the attention of those at Wikipedia who are in a position to rectify a violation of Wikipedia's own rules/principles? The careful case that I have built should be taken seriously by Wikipedia. Editors could learn a lot from this incident.

Thank you.

Geoffrey Kabat Gkabat (talk) 11:57, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

You have our attention- there is no central authority here to do what you claim- we all do. You've already been told what the next step for you is- get the news to print your claims as a factual report written by an independent reporter supervised and fact checked by an editor in which they state you are exonerated. I'm guessing that you've tried and they won't do that- in which case there is nothing we can do for you. 331dot (talk) 12:03, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't make any sense that editors at Wikipedia can be taken in by a politically-motivated hit job against two well-established scientists and publish a totally one-sided and distorted account. And now you tell that there is nothing anyone at Wikipedia can do to correct this situation. I have provided independent, respected sources. Please look at the materials I posted. You seem to be going blindly by very simplistic rules governing what can be written and what is a valid source. But one has to examine each case individually to understand what is going on. Anyone who can read will see that I have presented overwhelming evidence with strong citations showing that the claim that our paper was "discredited" is wrong. Furthermore, the claim that our results are at variance with the results of other studies on passive smoking is also wrong. If editors at Wikipedia don't take the time to look at the specific facts of each case, but just go blindly by something sensational and attention-grabbing that has been published, taking it as "the truth," then we are in big trouble. Lots of wrong and distorted things get published. That doesn't mean they are true. This story got published because it made a GOOD STORY. So no one questioned it or looked at all the other relevant evidence. Gkabat (talk) 13:44, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Gibberish

One article has in its infobox the legend "String Module Error: Target string is empty". That might mean something to a computer programmer or the like, but it looks like jargon and gibberish to me. Plus, it is in red lettering, so it might be eyeing me up for extermination. What is it actually saying and how do I get rid of it. The article is "Ball Park Incident". Thanks, - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:33, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Now fixed by Trainsskyscrapers. Maproom (talk) 22:23, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 12:23, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia's Geolocator

Hi, I had a really old account and I used to moderate the recent changes log and used a bot to warn certain users of vandalism, etc. There was also a feature where you could find the IP address of a certain user to prevent sockpuppets. Can someone send me a link to that again? It would be really helpful.
Thanks. SKINNYSODAQUEEN (talk) 22:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, SKINNYSODAQUEEN, ordinary editors cannot find the IP addresses used by registered accounts. Not even administrators can find those IP addresses. That requires the advanced WP:CHECKUSER permission. There are less than 50 checkusers on English Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 23:02, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I am not referring to the CheckUser funtion. The website was third-party. SKINNYSODAQUEEN (talk) 23:06, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

@SKINNYSODAQUEEN There's no way to see the IP of registered users, third-party or here. For IPs, if you go to their contributions page, you can see links at the bottom to geolocate them. I am not sure what else you could mean. win8x (talking | spying) 23:08, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Ah, that is what I meant. Thank you. SKINNYSODAQUEEN (talk) 23:12, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm having trouble finding the geolocation tool at the bottom. Is there a certain level of confirmation you need to have? I have autoconfirmation on this account, and on my old account I had the same. I'm just having trouble finding the link. SKINNYSODAQUEEN (talk) 23:15, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

@SKINNYSODAQUEEN: It's only shown on pages for IP's. It's added by the English Wikipedia. Most other wikis don't have it. It may not be shown if you have set another language than the default "en - English" at Special:Preferences. I see a box with "Geolocate" and many other links at the bottom of Special:Contributions/97.116.170.7. I still see it if I log out. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:18, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Article is repeatedly getting edited and major content removed within 1 day between my lengthy edits.

Hello - Today from my own homepage, a suggestion was made by the Wikipedia system to add links to the following article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divergence-from-randomness_model FYI - I am a relatively new "editor" mostly helping to fix bare URLs and other "easy" things. I proceeded to make edits including fixing some URLs, checking content which didn't match sources, etc. Twice today alone other users (likely from the same suggestions pages it appears) have gone in and, looks to be made edits/mistakes and WIPED out large portions of the article. Since I was actively working in there it was VERY frustrating. I don't know how to make sure this doesn't happen. Also is there a way to have articles "locked" from multiple users editing same time? Jjamulla (talk) 23:09, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

@Jjamulla: This information you've been adding, what sources does it come from? TooManyFingers (talk) 00:39, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

You and WhyIsNameSoHardOmg- - need to discuss this on the Talk page of the article. David notMD (talk) 11:10, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

It comes from the sources already listed in the article, I read them myself where I added the info. One of them is a thesis on the subject. For example, I put in reference tags for some specific sentences which I found in the thesis.

I would call this vandalism now, as this users has AGAIN deleted a good portion of the article, and reverted all of my changes which I spent hrs. and hrs. on....

How do I get an admin involved. Jjamulla (talk) 11:18, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Article: "Charge And Groove"

Hello Teahouse,

I recently submitted a draft titled "Charge And Groove," but it was declined due to a lacking of reliable sources. I'm aware on how important it is to use trustworthy sources for Wikipedia articles, and I would really appreciate some advice on how to make my draft more effective.

Source Recommendations: Could you suggest specific types of sources or databases where I might find credible information related to "Charge And Groove"? Validating Sources: Are there particular criteria or examples of valid sources that I should aim to include in my draft? Draft Improvement: Any tips on enhancing the content of my draft to better meet Wikipedia's standards would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your assistance!

Musican editor0420 (talk) 02:26, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Charge And Groove— ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 02:31, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Not useful: the subject themselves, interviews, friends and supporters, employees, helpers

Useful: Articles ABOUT the subject, but not interviews; we want the kind where the reporter does all the talking. These should be from what Wikipedia calls reliable sources. TooManyFingers (talk) 03:15, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Musican editor0420: not my area of expertise, so I'll just say: you should start by listing the sources you have used for every statement in the draft. You do have some sources, don't you?
In terms of content, I would suggest looking at WP:Proseline – it's not a rule, but advice on making your writing more encyclopaedic. An article about a musician should be more than just a list of singles. This is assuming that your subject meets the notability criteria for musicians, and the onus is on you to prove notability. — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 03:19, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Muscian editor0420, and welcome to the Teahouse. You ask about "sources or databases", but mention of databases suggests that (like most beginners) you don't have an understanding of what sources are for in Wikipedia. While there are circumstances in which a database (managed by a reputable organisation) may be cited, these are very much the exception. The vast majority of sources - and all the sources used to establish that the subject is notable in Wikipedia's sense - should be text (or broadcasts or podcast) written by named individuals wholly unconnected with the subject, and published by somebody with a reputation for fact-checking and editorial control, and containing significant coveragew (say, at least a couple of paragraphs) about the subject of the article specifically (not just things associated with them, like organisations or people they work with, or things they havw created). Most people (and most bands, companies, charities, inventions, etc) are not notable because this independent published coverage does not exist.

More generally: My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft. ColinFine (talk) 10:35, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Show me patal world

Show me Patal world 2409:4056:218:36EB:0:0:138E:8A0 (talk) 04:06, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

I do not understand. Please clarify. Is this a question about editing Wikipedia? We have no article about "Patal world" Cullen328 (talk) 04:11, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, IP user. Patal seems to be the name of three places in Iran. Other than that, I have no idea what you are asking. ColinFine (talk) 10:36, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

OP probably means Patel World, but I'm not going to provide a link here. Please use a search engine. Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:12, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

How to cite Dorland's medical dictionary like this format?

Hello, can someone please explain how to cite Dorland's medical dictionary like this format. I found this format in this article, yet I am unable to access other definitions. I'm looking for the definition of pericapillary end foot on Dorland's, but every time I try accessing it, I get directed to this page instead. Can someone help me find it? PecMo (talk) 04:30, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

As far as I can see, they do not have that term: perivascular end foot. Any special reason it has to be that source, and not another one? Mathglot (talk) 05:20, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Add missing ping: PecMo. Mathglot (talk) 05:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

@Mathglot: My apologies. It's pericapillary end foot or perivascular foot. I got perplexed; can you please provide the format for citing it? PecMo (talk) 05:38, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps merckengage.com did indeed have the pages you want, but the Wayback Machine didn't spider merckengage.com deeply enough to find and scrape the pages. But I wouldn't be surprised if I'm overlooking something here. I was about to suggest posting the same question to people likelier to be familiar with the work and with citing it, but I see you've already done so. -- Hoary (talk) 10:29, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello?

Please make an article and Disambiguation page called "Mini World:CREATA"and "RALR"? 103.176.202.49 (talk) 06:05, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Why? If you want to try it yourself, try Wikipedia:Article wizard. ~Anachronist (talk) 07:31, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, IP user, and welcome to the Teahouse. We are all volunteers here, and work on what we choose. Asking random people here to make an article is not likely to be successful. You have made no attempt to interest people, to show why we might want to make such an article, or even to give us an idea what the subject is.

There is a formal way to request an article - see Requested articles - but in all honesty the chances of a request being taken up is small.

Another possibility is to try and interest another editor who has some interested in the relevant field in working on this: the best place to do this would be a WikiProject: if you can find one that is appropriate to the topic (I have no idea what the topic is, so I can't suggest which) you could ask on the WikiProject's talk page if anybody there is interested in working on such an article.

Anachronist is right that your most likely way is to do it yourself. But I would caution that successfully creating an article is very difficult for an inexperienced editor. My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft.

The most useful thing you can do now, is to look for published sources about the subject, and make sure that each of them meets all three criteria in WP:42. If you can find at least three such, then an article is possible, and you might try one of the approaches I've suggested. (A request at WP:RA is more likely to be taken up if some solid sources are given).

If you cannot find at least three independent reliable sources for the subject, then no article is possible, and you should forget it and do something else ColinFine (talk) 10:47, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

I need help with an article

I just had an article rejected at the AFC with the reason being "the references do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject". I believe most of the references have significant coverage, some that do not have very significant coverage are just support references. I would really like some help with getting it approved. Here's the page, Michael Tawadrous Michael Ugbodu (talk) 10:21, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Michael Ugbodu, which three would you say contain the most significant coverage (and of course are reliable). Tell us here, and then we'll look at them. -- Hoary (talk) 10:34, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello Hoary, the three references will be [1], [4], [5] Michael Ugbodu (talk) 10:42, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Michael Ugbodu. None of these three are independent of Tawadrous. Wikipedia has little interest in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is almost entirely interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. If enough material is cited from independent sources to establish notability, a limited amount of uncontroversial factual information may be added from non-independent sources.

Every single source which is used to support notability must meet all three of the criteria in WP:42. ColinFine (talk) 10:49, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

A not-small distinction - the draft was Declined, not Rejected. The latter would have meant that the reviewer saw no potential to succeed. David notMD (talk) 11:13, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Link converter for Wikipedia

Hello Wikipedians

Can I convert links to Wikipedia:VisualEditor? Manually changing links to the required grammar format on Wikipedia is time-consuming. Can I convert links by Wikipedia:VisualEditor? please ping to me when I should check the answer for my inquiry. Goodtiming8871 (talk) 12:12, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

@Goodtiming8871: Welcome to the Teahouse. Your use of terminology is confusing; what do you mean by required grammar format? If you're asking whether it's okay to change links when using the visual editor, the answer is yes. Some editors might find it annoying if the wiki markup isn't perfect because of the use of the visual editor, but the end visual result is the same.

After reading the next section, I will say that the above generally applies to wikilinks within Wikipedia; Creamastra offers great advice for dealing with citing and external links. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 13:57, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Inquiry for reference

FYI

 – Merging with above section

Below is a sample link. I wonder if it is possible to automatically convert this link to the Wikipedia source format.

reference [5] Goodtiming8871 (talk) 12:22, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

For most links, you can press the "cite" button in the Visual Editor, paste the link into the input box, and it will produce a formatted reference. Cremastra (talk) 13:48, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Publishing new article from sandbox

I am attempting to create my first new article, but I have not been able to find the process to move my draft from the sandbox to the wikipedia page. Smedler (talk) 13:33, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

New accounts cannot directly create articles. You will need to submit it for a review, typically this is done via the article wizard, but I will add the information to your sandbox needed to submit it. However, if you were to submit it, it would likely be declined, as it is far too brief. You will need to (assuming the sources you give already do) summarize what the sources say makes this person a notable person as Wikipedia uses the term. 331dot (talk) 13:38, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I have had an account for ~2 years, but this is my first article. I created it in the sandbox a few weeks ago and I believe I did submit it for review at that time. I haven't seen any response to the review. I can easily add more information to the page if that is the issue. Smedler (talk) 13:41, 15 September 2024 (UTC)