Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/Society/Archive 12

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Archive 13

Add Imperial examination  5

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For centuries, the imperial examination system profoundly influenced Imperial China's society, determining social status and governance. It provided a path for social advancement based on merit. It legitimized the ruling dynasty, ensured political stability, and reinforced cultural norms through its emphasis on Confucian ideology. However, it perpetuated gender inequality by excluding women. And was apperently important for Chinese mythology (see Imperial examination in Chinese mythology). All the elite of Imperial China was a jinshi, the highest degree of the exam. In essence, the imperial examination system shaped Chinese society, governance, and culture, leaving a lasting impact on its civilization. The Blue Rider 20:29, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 20:29, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:32, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:32, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
4. This feels VA5-worthy based on vibes. I consider this to be more of a History topic however. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:04, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:01, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
6. I also feel like this should be a History VA. Mathwriter2718 (talk) 13:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:01, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• @Feminist: You seem to take an interest on East Asia as well, so I would appreciate your input, be it positive or negative! Thank you. The Blue Rider 14:59, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

  Well, I very much disliked the subject of History of China  4 at school. Where would you put it on the list? It feels more like a history topic to me. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:05, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

  Oh, such an interesting history, for me at least. What are your countries/regions of interest then? I would put it in the Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Culture's Education section. The Blue Rider 15:19, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add Knowledge management  5

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Place under Management  3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:59, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
3. The Blue Rider 21:52, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:59, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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I must go punch that baby

Add Juvenile delinquency  5

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Society reacts differently to people committing crimes when they are underage. It's an important area in Criminology  4 with influences from the family environment and peers, and differences in how they are tried (e.g. Juvenile court) and punished (e.g. juvenile homes rather than prisons) to reflect their different level of cognitive development.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:30, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:13, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Age of criminal responsibility  5

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The age one must be in order to be capable of committing an offence. If one is too young, one is presumed to not be able to tell whether something should be wrong or not. An important concept comparable to, say, Age of consent  4.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:30, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:50, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Age of majority  5 and Minor (law)  5

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At what age do you become an adult? Different societies think differently on this, but it's usually somewhere between 18 and 21. An important concept which relates to whether you can drink, consent to sexual activity, and be liable for criminal acts (see nomination above).

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:30, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:20, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Strike (attack)  5

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Striking is the primary way Hand-to-hand combat  5 (nominated above) is conducted, but it should be listed separately because variations of strikes are also employed in Martial arts  3 and combat sports.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:27, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:08, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Punch (combat)  5

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A strike (nominated above) conducted with the fist. It is used in most martial arts and combat sports, and is the only type of offensive technique allowed in Boxing  4.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:27, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:38, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:20, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
6. Obvious Mathwriter2718 (talk) 13:54, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:09, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Kick  5

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A strike (nominated above) using the leg. Used in many forms of martial arts, as well as in self-defense applications.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:27, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:38, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. Very surprised this and punch weren't listed already. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:20, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
6. Obvious Mathwriter2718 (talk) 13:55, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:09, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap: Add The Rose of Versailles, remove Cardcaptor Sakura

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The former is decades older and has better claims of vitality, and they have sold a similar amount. Cardcaptor Sakura feels a somewhat questionable inclusion to me, seeming not quite popular/acclaimed/influential/famous enough to be preferred over something like Berserk (manga) or even Monster (manga) (which are scored into the top 10 of various manga sites by their users).

(I initially thought about replacing Cardcaptor with Berserk but eventually decided on a shoujo-shoujo swap, and I'm wondering a bit whether some of Berserk's vitality claims might be too inspired by the 2021 death of its author.)

Support

1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 18:16, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:26, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Support removal of Cardcaptor Sakura. I agree that it's a questionable inclusion, per nom. But I would think that Princess Knight would be a better replacement, if we would want to list another shoujo manga instead. Makkool (talk) 09:15, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

No votes in a long time. If this proposal goes nowhere I may propose a swap with Berserk (manga) instead.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

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Add Warner Bros.  5 and Paramount Pictures  5

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We recently listed Namco  5 and Sega  5 as vital articles, and while those listings are definitely warranted, that places video games as having equal representation in Film, television, video game, and music production as film which are far more widespread and long-lasting than video games. To compensate, I propose the addition of the two American Major film studios that aren't already listed: Warner Bros.  5 and Paramount Pictures  5.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 06:24, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 11:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Support both as the guy who tried nominating Paramount Pictures.SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:19, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 05:59, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:24, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:54, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
7. Supporting both. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Putting a note here I just now noticed the earlier nomination for Paramount Pictures to get added. Not going to change this since its got more than Paramount Pictures, though. λ NegativeMP1 18:10, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

• Closed and archived that. starship.paint 05:59, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Clavier-Übung III

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We got a lot of Bach on here. I think we can get rid of one or two works Like this one, which only has two interwikis.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:22, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
2. λ NegativeMP1 04:34, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 13:18, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:22, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. Not entirely related to the nomination, but why do we use "X should be removed because it only has Y interwikis!" as a removal rationale? I see the reason why we use it, since it theoretically suggests a lack of worldwide influence, but it also seems to have some overlap with the fact that, if I recall correctly, redlinks as vital articles is technically allowed. That rules existence seems to directly contradict these types of rationales by implying a subject can be important regardless of whether or not a Wikipedia has it. λ NegativeMP1 02:06, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

   I think that rule should probably be removed. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:08, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

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Add Stayin' Alive

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I get that we already have Saturday Night Fever (soundtrack)  5, but this is easily the first disco song most people will name.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:39, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Support swap with Saturday Night Fever (soundtrack)  5. The song is far more vital than the soundtrack album. Makkool (talk) 08:51, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

   I have to disagree with the idea of swapping this out with the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack. The soundtrack is one of the best-selling albums of all time (we're talking an estimate of 40 million units worldwide), and both it and the film are responsible for bringing disco to the mainstream. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:33, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

   We also list Saturday Night Fever  5 the movie. And three articles for any cultural work is too much in my opinion. I still think the soundtrack album is the least vital for these three. Makkool (talk) 11:11, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

3. Support add, no opinion on swapping. λ NegativeMP1 16:55, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Support add, oppose swap per reasons above. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:55, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove WKRP in Cincinnati

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We have a lot of American TV shows, but it was extremely difficult to find one to remove. I ended up settling on this one. It only won two awards, had little influence on pop culture, and it only has seven interwikis. It seems to only be on the list due to high ratings received during its original run. This spot would be much better used by a show like Stargate  5, which is much more popular and influential, or a show like Soul Train which had a lasting impact on something.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:05, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

   Note: I would be fine with a swap with Soul Train here, and I nominated Stargate below. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:15, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

2. Support per nom. Would support a swap with Soul Train too. Makkool (talk) 14:10, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Swap with Soul Train. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:04, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 00:35, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Social studies

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Widely taught in schools. Interstellarity (talk) 22:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 22:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
2. How did we forget this! Makkool (talk) 06:08, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 00:35, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 10:35, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:58, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add Bad (album)  5

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It feels bizarre that we list at least six albums from The Beatles  3, but only one from Michael Jackson  3. He is the most important pop artist of all time, like how the Beatles is the most important rock band of all time, and so the two should be a bit more equal (especially since they're both V3). Also, pop could use a bit more representation in comparison to rock. So I'm nominating Bad, Jackson's second most popular and important album, to level it out a little bit more. Sure, its not as important as Thriller (album)  4, but this V5 and not V4 and I'd argue it's more important than listing Billie Jean  5 as an individual song, and its still influential.

On a side note, surely we could reduce albums from the Beatles to 3 or 4 to prevent over-representation right? Right now they're the modern artist/band with the most listed albums. Something separate to discuss.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 04:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Also in favor of Off the Wall and "I Want You Back".SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:21, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Also support Off the Wall. Kevinishere15 (talk) 06:33, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:48, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Bad was popular, but "Off the Wall" was more influential. "writers have hailed it [Off the Wall] a landmark release of the disco era and, along with his next album Thriller (1982), among the greatest albums in history" Makkool (talk) 06:08, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

   I'll make a separate nomination for Off the Wall another date then, I feel like we can have both. λ NegativeMP1 06:12, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Add Papers, Please

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We currently have no listed examples of an Indie game  5 (not counting the recent proposal of adding Stardew Valley) or one of Video games as an art form. Papers, Please is a game that ticks both boxes. And if this helps, it is considered one the best video games ever made and is one of the more successful indie games in terms of sales numbers (5 million units, compared to the recently removed Undertale's 1 million). Sure, it's not as well known as some other indie games and could be considered too recent, but influence ≠ popularity here and I think its proven itself worthy of being included for the sake of representation.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 01:40, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak support; one could count Minecraft as an indie game (and the most important one at that) prior to Microsoft's acquisition. Needless to say, there's room for 2-3 indie games at V5, and I would prefer this over Stardew Valley. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:47, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Support adding to represent video games as art Makkool (talk) 12:40, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Support. 49p (talk) 18:46, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Popular, but more broadly, still too niche. Also not really convinced of its broader influence. Iostn (talk) 00:35, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
2. If we need to list an example of an indie game, shouldn't it be something more heavily influential like Undertale, Terraria or Touhou Project? 3df (talk) 01:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

   First of all, this nomination is also based on representation of video games as an art form and not exclusively indie representation. I think we have room for one or two more indie games besides this one. Second of all, Undertale was removed in the past by an overwhelming consensus of 8-1, Terraria just sold a lot of units (though I wouldn't be opposed to it necessarily since it's the best selling indie game), and Touhou Projects main games in the series have only sold double digit units with little global impact and a cult community. A game that would actually be worthy of addition based on "influence" would be a game like Hotline Miami or Braid (video game), the former of which I may nominate some day. λ NegativeMP1 01:52, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

   I think Stardew Valley should be listed. I'm considering renominating it in the near future without the horrible swap choice I made. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:07, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

3. I don't think we need special consideration to "Indie" games at all. An influential video game will stand out regardless of the developer. Stardew Valley for example is a very popular game that happens to have an indie developer. What makes it vital is its popularity, not who made it.GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 17:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

BioShock  5 seems to be considered a example of games as an art form? Kevinishere15 (talk) 02:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Papers, Please used to be listed but was a casualty when the specific games list was purged down from 135+ entries. It was an imperfect (but still mostly good) process, some entries may be worth re-adding. Currently undecided on this one.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:32, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

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Add Baby Shark

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One of the most well-known songs of all time, with over 14 billion views on YouTube. This song has had a large influence on popular culture, and nearly everybody has heard of it.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:53, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
2. It might be a bit reccent, but this is the most viewed YouTube video of all time, by a significant margin (over 6 billion views!). It would also basically represent the "new age" of childrens music that has only become more prominent with each passing year. Hell, it would represent childrens music in general on this list, since I believe the only childrens song we list at present is Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star  5. λ NegativeMP1 02:16, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Weak support due to its cultural impact and popularity, but only if at least one of Old MacDonald or The Wheels on the Bus are added as well. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 02:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Unconditional support, a song we didn't grow up with isn't automatically less important than the ones we had decades ago. Media based on Baby Shark is currently redefining the whole early childhood entertainment industry and spawning a Korean megacharacter. There are certainly English-language nursery rhymes that should be listed as well, and Wikipedia as a whole is doing an unusually poor job with representing children's entertainment (that is a red link at the time of writing). 3df (talk) 01:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I'd add "Old MacDonald Had a Farm" rather than this. Makkool (talk) 20:10, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: I would support adding that song if you proposed it. Is there any reason you are opposed to adding Baby Shark? It is very well-known. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:00, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

   Mostly because we don't really have the space for it. We are over-quota in the Arts section. To me, "Baby Shark"'s popularity seems like a fad. Besides, it seems to be only well-known in the English speaking world. Don't know if it's sung in daycare centers and schools in other parts of the world. At least, the article doesn't mention any versions in other languages. Makkool (talk) 22:15, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

   I have proposed a removal from the same section below, just so you know. Does that help change your opinion? QuicoleJR (talk) 00:17, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

2. Too recent to evaluate its long-term impact. The Blue Rider 14:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
3. per @The Blue Rider:.GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 17:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Off the Wall  5

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Per my earlier nomination of adding Bad (album)  5, for as impactful and important Michael Jackson  3 was to pop music, he should have more listed works than Thriller (album)  4 and one song from it (Billie Jean  5) since he has had way more influence beyond that album. Per the article for Off the Wall, "In retrospect, writers have hailed it a landmark release of the disco era and, along with his next album Thriller (1982), among the greatest albums in history." Add this one and Bad, and Michael Jackson and his works should be adequately covered here.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 23:15, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Kevinishere15 (talk) 23:27, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
3. This rather than Bad Makkool (talk) 21:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:48, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Arts is already over-quota, and I would definitely list Bad over this Iostn (talk) 23:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Single (music)  5

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Important part of modern music, we list several. Kevinishere15 (talk) 06:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 06:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Wow, this concept isn't vital already? λ NegativeMP1 21:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Another overlooked one. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 23:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Definitely. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:05, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
5. Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:08, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Raincoat  5

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Common type of clothing we don't list.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 00:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Another easy support. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:19, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:19, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk) 13:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove United States trust law

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This section is nearly 50 articles over the quota, and with that in mind, I don't see why this should be listed. No other articles on the trust laws of specific countries, such as British or Italian trust law, are listed, and I don't see a reason to single out the American equivalent other than it being American. The article has zero interwikis.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:48, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 08:39, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 03:24, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Trampoline  5

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Popular recreational activity. Maybe physcial exercise is the best place for it

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:33, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
2. This hasn't been added yet? JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 21:00, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Everyone knows what this is. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:58, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:28, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Marlboro  5

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The most common brand of cigarettes, and a well-recognized brand across the world. 43 interwikis, top-importance in WikiProject Brands.

Support

1. As nominator. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 21:31, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom., we lack many vital everyday brands Makkool (talk) 21:36, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Easy support; we could also add Camel (cigarette) or a women's cigarrette like Virginia Slims. The Blue Rider 00:34, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

   I was thinking maybe adding Camel as well (especially because it's also top-importance in WikiProject Brands), but I feel like it hasn't been as popular since the 1970s and 1980s (besides the introduction of Joe Camel, obviously). It's still popular and a viable candidate though. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 02:40, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 00:54, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Systems management

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Can be under Management  3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics, can be under Technology

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:03, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove New York Public Library  5 and Boston Public Library

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I don't think we need any libraries that are not national libraries at this level. I think Library of Congress is sufficient for US libraries. Interstellarity (talk) 01:13, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Support NYPL

1. Interstellarity (talk) 01:13, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Support BPL

1. Interstellarity (talk) 01:13, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Only the fifth largest library in the US. Possible swap for Shanghai Library  5? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:46, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Quite surprised this was listed tbh. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:11, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 09:15, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose NYPL

1. Strong oppose. We should have two American libraries, and it is the world’s fourth largest at 55 million catalogued items. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:46, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

   @OhnoitsvileplumeXD: Different sources have different criteria regarding how big libraries are. NYPL is the second biggest by catalog size, but BPL is the largest by volumes held. I think this is something we should consider when deciding what to remove an add. Interstellarity (talk) 13:02, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

   @Interstellarity: I was just going off List of largest libraries, where only the catalogue size is listed. I still see the NYPL as more vital, as it has double the interwikis and triple the daily views. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:52, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

   @OhnoitsvileplumeXD: I found these articles at here and here. One article has the NYPL as larger and the other has BPL as larger, but if you still think NYPL is more vital, I’ll respect your opinion on that. Interstellarity (talk) 14:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

2. Not even mentioning its sheer size (fourth largest library in the world), amount of visitors, and iconicness, it's also a historic landmark. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Per above Makkool (talk) 09:15, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose BPL

Discussion

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Add Fan wiki

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Fan wikis are some of the most popular websites in the world. Should be under Internet medium. voorts (talk/contributions) 02:48, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. voorts (talk/contributions) 02:48, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. When nobody made an article for this up until now (and the nominator themselves made the article) and it has no interwikis, I highly doubt that this vital. Sure, widespread, but vital? No. λ NegativeMP1 03:04, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Too specific variant of Wiki  5.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 06:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Wiki  5 is only VA5 and this does not seem like an important enough subtopic to overcome that. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:04, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
4. Per above. The page has only existed for a few days. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 00:32, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Deutsche Mark

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The currency that Euro  4 was largely bassed on. It was the official currency of West Germany  5 and Germany  3

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 13:55, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I'm not convinced any individual historic currencies are vital. Gold standard  5 or Special drawing rights  5 should be added, but not Deutsche mark. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:35, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Doesn't seem vital even historically Makkool (talk) 09:15, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Rumor  5 and Gossip  5

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Two major forms of Communication  2.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:33, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
2. V5, sure. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 22:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Supporting both. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:31, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Thor (Marvel Comics)  5

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A level 4 VA missing from the level 5 list. IDBLWK (talk) 07:06, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. IDBLWK (talk) 07:08, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 18:37, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
3. Wzrd517 (talk) 22:38, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Income  5

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A fundamental concept in accounting and finance. It doesn't make sense for us to list Income statement  5, Fixed income  5 and Income tax  4 without listing the base concept. Place this under Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics#Banking and financing, or alternatively under the Accounting subsection.

Support

1. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:57, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
2. V4? JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 16:00, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:54, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 04:48, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Gurdwara  5

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Places of worship in Sikhism  3.

Support

1. As nominator. To religion. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:42, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 13:57, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:47, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 13:11, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Social relation  5

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Social interaction redirects here. Different social interactions combine to form a Social network  4. I think it's an important concept in Social studies.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:31, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Obviously. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:24, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 20:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Technical support  5

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A major component of Customer service  5 (nominated above) in relation to products and services which consumers do not know how to use.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:00, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:06, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Hanna-Barbera  5

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Although we do have William Hanna  5 and Joseph Barbera  5 on here along with some shows, I still think we need the company. They’re responsible for a large chunk of American TV animation (and for some periods, most of it).

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:23, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
4. 49p (talk) 05:10, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
5. IDBLWK (talk) 07:04, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Reinsurance  5

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A major part of the insurance industry. Place under Insurance.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:06, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Still hard to believe Warranty  5 wasn't even V5 a year ago. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 23:26, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Major branch of financial services with massive companies. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:26, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 05:08, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Cash flow  5

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A very important concept in accounting and finance. Place under Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics#Accounting. It doesn't make sense for us to list Cash flow statement  5 but not Cash flow  5.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:34, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
2. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:32, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Sure. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 03:50, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Cost-of-production theory of value with Value (economics)  5

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The former derives from the Labour theory of value, a more foundational theory, employed in Classical economics  5 and Political economy  5, not to mention in Marxism  4. The latter provides an overview of theories of value.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 15:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Obvious. Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Project  5

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An essential concept in the task management of organizations. The Vital Articles project is an example of this.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 15:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Wikipedia itself is one big project. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:03, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. How wasn't this already added? JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:46, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
6. Important concept Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:13, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Business administration  5

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The article could use some work but this is one of the most popular college majors globally. Paraphrasing from the Master of Business Administration  5 article, areas of business administration include accounting, applied statistics, human resources, business communication, business ethics, business law, strategic management, business strategy, finance, managerial economics, management, entrepreneurship, marketing, supply-chain management, and operations management in a manner most relevant to management analysis and strategy.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 16:41, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 22:39, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Scarborough Fair (ballad)  5

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Seems to have only been popular in England, and even then it does not seem that popular or influential. There are plenty of songs that I would rather list, such as Baby Shark (nominated above), and the section is a bit above the quota.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:30, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Scarborough Fair is one of the most well-known examples of English folk music, and I'm not convinced on the argument of traditional folk songs being non-vital by being most influential in the place/culture where they originated, since that's the case for neaely all of them. Iostn (talk) 23:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
2. per above Makkool (talk) 21:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:53, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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More business and economics concepts

Add Market capitalization  5

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“Total value of a publicly traded company's outstanding common shares owned by stockholders”. There are complementary metrics, but this is the most employed measure of how "valuable" a company is. Stock indices are often weighted by market cap.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 23:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
3. 3df (talk) 01:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Important concept Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Leverage (finance)  5

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The use of borrowed capital for an investment, expecting the profits made to be greater than the interest payable. Part of the lifeblood of the financial industry.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 23:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Important concept Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• @Tabu Makiadi: Leverage is a disambiguation page. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:06, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

  Nevermind, Vileplume fixed it. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:13, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

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Add Inventory  5

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The goods and materials a business holds for resale. Another essential concept in business.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Easy support. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 02:14, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
3. 3df (talk) 01:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:34, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
5. Important concept Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Remote work  5

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Despite the pandemic recovery, an increasing proportion of people work this way now, or at least hybridly.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 23:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 02:15, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:34, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• I worry about recency bias. We can guess, but we don't know yet if remote work will still be a big thing in 10 years. Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

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Add Depreciation  5

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The allocation of the cost of a tangible asset over its life. An important concept in accounting, the insurance industry, and actuarial science.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Clearly an oversight by us. starship.paint (RUN) 13:34, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 22:15, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Important concept Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Jurisdiction  5

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Major concept in Law.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Basic concept Iostn (talk) 23:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Easy support. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 02:16, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Clearly an oversight by us. starship.paint (RUN) 13:34, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
5. Important concept Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Purchasing power parity  5

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This has a whopping 88 interwikis, and ties together several ideas of economics, such as cost of living, exchange rates, GDP, transaction costs, price levels, etc.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 23:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Clearly an oversight by us. starship.paint (RUN) 13:34, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Important concept Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add either Paris Saint-Germain F.C. OR Olympique de Marseille

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I feel like we should have one association football team from France listed, and I feel like these are the only two options. PSG used to be a VA, but it was removed without any notice on the talk page (from what I can find, but viewing past versions of this page, I don't think it was ever created). Yes, PSG suffers from recency bias, but not all of their success has came since 2011, they still won a respectable 17 French trophies prior to the Qatar takeover (including 2 Ligue 1 titles and a UEFA Cup Winners' Cup). PSG has more trophies and Ligue 1 titles than Marseille nowadays, but Marseille does have their Champions League to their name (although PSG has also made a UCL final). So, I'm split on which one of these two to add, which is why I'm proposing both to see what the community thinks. Personally, I would rather add PSG, although as mentioned above, they do suffer a little from recency bias. I think if this and my above Arsenal-Inter Milan swap go through, the association football section would be pretty much complete (although I would still add S.L. Benfica and possibly Celtic F.C.).

Please, if you do decide to support, try and only support one of the two (although I won't care if you decide to support both), as I only want to add one of these. I just don't know which the community would prefer.

Support PSG

1. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 04:25, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:28, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Support Marseille

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

PSG is now a moot point - I discovered that PSG was removed without a vote and I have restored it. Aurangzebra (talk) 00:06, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I didn't realize that we didn't need a vote to restore PSG. Since I only wanted to add one of the two, I'm going to close this discussion now, as it's not needed. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 18:19, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Russian Bandy Super League

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Bandy  5 was recently demoted to V5 from V4. I'm thinking we wouldn't consider a Russian bandy league vital at this level.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 13:34, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
2. No compelling claims of vitality, and poor stats (~18 daily pageviews, 7 interwikis).--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 13:41, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:27, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 13:57, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Bōsōzoku

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A stretch to list them under organized crime. We could move them to subcultures but their numbers have dwindled in past decades.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 07:51, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:37, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 09:15, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I don't think being smaller numbers in than they used to be is necessarily a good reason for removal. Iostn (talk) 07:13, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Never Gonna Give You Up  5

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The song is not only vital for being recognizable, but also for being an example of an Internet meme  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
2. I feel like you could argue that this is the most widely recognizable pop song not on this list or in an album on this list, so even taking out the fact it'd primarily represent internet meme culture this song still makes a case for itself. As for whether or not Rickrolling itself is more vital, I'm personally choosing the song since I believe its popular enough even not as a meme, but I'm also not opposed to having Rickrolling itself only. λ NegativeMP1 02:22, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Support. I'd argue this one of the 3 most popular modern music songs of all time (alongside Bohemian Rhapsody  5 and We Will Rock You, with Billie Jean  5 extremely close behind). JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 02:07, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:31, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Support Rickrolling instead. Makkool (talk) 21:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

@NegativeMP1: You may be interested in this proposal. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Would Rickrolling make more sense? Is the meme more vital than the actual song? Makkool (talk) 08:52, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

I think Rickrolling makes more sense but I don't feel strongly about it. Mathwriter2718 (talk) 13:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

I think Practical joke  5 should be added first instead of Rickrolling.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 16:06, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

I was more thinking of it as a subtopic of Internet meme  5. Practical joke would be a good idea to add too. Makkool (talk) 08:53, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

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Add Profession  5

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Important term distinct from trade, which we already list (a redirect to Craft  5). List this in Business, although it's a subject in sociology as well (as in, which job qualifies as a profession).

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 21:29, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 21:55, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:23, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:08, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Practical joke  5

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Also known as a "prank". I don't really think this needs much of an explanation, this is an extremely widespread type of Joke  4 that I'm sure everyone here has experienced (or maybe even executed) more than a handful of times in their life. Would go under Joke's listing in the Comedy section of Arts.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 06:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Thought about nominating this myself but forgot.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:08, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Joke warrants a subtopic. Makkool (talk) 16:10, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
4. Well known concept. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 03:04, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Economy and law by country removals

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Currently, we have 24 "Politics by country," 34 "Economy by country," and 37 "Law by country" articles. I won’t go into the details of each entry, but I want to consider whether some of these articles truly deserve VA5 status. For example, are there specific elements of the Law of the Netherlands or the Law of Romania that are essential for an average, educated person? Should we focus on countries in greater flux, like Economy of Argentina  5, rather than larger economies like Poland or Taiwan? These proposals aim to reduce to 30 the number of "Law" and "Economy by country" entries. If you disagree, let me know if it’s the specific countries selected or if the list is already appropriately sized and doesn’t need significant cuts.

• Economy of the Republic of Ireland
• Economy of Switzerland  5
• Economy of South Africa  5
• Economy of Argentina  5

• Law of Venezuela
• Law of Sweden
• Law of Mexico  5
• Law of Romania
• Law of Iraq
• Law of Taiwan
• Law of the Netherlands

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:20, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 17:12, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Support removal of all but Economy of Switzerland  5 and Economy of Argentina  5. Argentina is a classic case of economic mismanagement, and the economy of Argentina is an enduring subject in macroeconomic studies. Switzerland has a unique economy within Europe and arguably the world with its high level of economic development and reputation of neutrality and banking secrecy. Ireland is also notable as a global tax haven but its economy is otherwise overshadowed by Switzerland in notability – it's smaller, less rich, and lacks homegrown economic powerhouses when Switzerland has Nestlé, Roche, Richemont, etc. Between Argentina and Switzerland I'd keep Argentina first, but I think both are notable enough for the list. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:17, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
4. Support except for economies of Switzerland, Argentina, South Africa and law of Mexico (see below) Iostn (talk) 13:57, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose removal of Economy of Switzerland  5 and Economy of Argentina  5. See my comment above. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:17, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Oppose removal of Econ of Switzerland and Argentina per Feminist, and oppose removal of Economy of South Africa  5, since it was for a long time the most developed/largest sub-Saharan African economy, and even though its since been surpassed it still remains important to Africa. Also oppose removal of Law of Mexico  5 due to its high population (120 million+). Iostn (talk) 13:57, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Same opinion as Iost. Kevinishere15 (talk) 05:17, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• For the econ removals, I used List of countries by GDP (PPP) for reference. The proposed economies are the lowest ranked among the ones listed. The Law by country articles have 5 or fewer interwikis.

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Add Diary of a Wimpy Kid  5

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There was some support for adding this in the vote to include its author Jeff Kinney. It's the fourth best-selling book series of all time, and we already list many of the other highest-selling series.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 13:57, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
3. 49p (talk) 19:49, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:46, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Indigenous education

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Surprised this hasn't already been made vital. What is supposed to be an article regarding a worldwide view of education related to indigenous topics, is in dire need of improvement and recognition; the topic is becoming increasingly relevant as indigenous history becomes more widely taught.

Support

1. as nom. B3251 (talk) 01:27, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
2. I think this is a rare case where a subject being "niche" is why it should be listed. Many people didn't teach it (if not fought to destroy the mere concept of people learning about those people) for centuries and that's why it's "niche", which isn't a good thing. The subject is objectively important enough for V5. λ NegativeMP1 13:13, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

   Whether or not it is a bad thing being niche, it doesn't invalidate that it has close to zero impact on society. The Blue Rider 13:32, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

   The teaching of indigenous history/topics/culture absolutely has an impact on society as it is essential to the preservation of knowledge about [[Indigenous peoples]] worldwide. Retaining the understanding of human culture and history throughout most of the world prior to colonization is one of the largest reasons why we know about human culture in parts of the world that eventually were colonized today. Indigenous topics are quite underrepresented in Vital Articles. B3251_(talk) 20:11, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Niche type of education. The Blue Rider 01:02, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Per above. Makkool (talk) 17:45, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Electoral fraud  5

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A common feature of authoritarian regimes. Even accusations of fraud can have wide-ranging political, social, and legal effects.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint. 02:17, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 16:40, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
4. As an American, I can confirm the second sentence of the nomination. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:39, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:51, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
6. Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Escalation clause, Exit interview, Closed shop and Deskilling

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Minor concepts in employment and business. The latter may be swapped for Technological unemployment, which is more frequently used.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:37, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 18:14, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
3. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:07, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:53, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove International Defensive Pistol Association

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We already have three shooting sports authorities: International Shooting Sport Federation  5 and International Practical Shooting Confederation. This one has only 1 interwiki.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:37, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 21:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
3. We can probably do without the others too. Kevinishere15 (talk) 09:20, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 18:14, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom. Would also vote to remove International Practical Shooting Confederation if proposed but probably not International Shooting Sport Federation since it governs the Olympics, World Championships, and World Cups of the major shooting sports. Aurangzebra (talk) 21:05, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add T-Series (company)  5

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If we are going to have the founder, Gulshan Kumar  5 (who was unsucessfully removed), we probably should at least have the company. We really need another record label either way, cause EMI  5 is the only one listed. (other than parent companies being listed: e.g. Sony Music is not listed but Sony  5 is). Add under Film, television, video game, and music production

Support

1. 49p (talk) 04:49, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Largest record label in the most populated country? As well as the formerly most-subscribed YouTube channel? Definitely vital. λ NegativeMP1 21:04, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Especially since Hanna-Barbera is going to be added, both are at least equally vital. Makkool (talk) 13:11, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
4. Definitely. Also support Sony Music. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 18:28, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Gravity Falls

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It had some minor industry impact (primarily on other Disney Channel shows), but other than that and a small cult following, this isn't really a "vital" series and it's barely a decade old, meaning its on the verge of recency bias. And while I'd be fine with a recent listing if it's very clearly influential, this doesn't meet that mark. Most of the "legacy" section, beyond what I mentioned, is just talking about how the show got referenced in popular culture. It's definitely not one of the top 200-300 most important TV shows of all time, hell I wouldn't even say its one of the top 5 most important Disney Channel shows (Phineas and Ferb? Jessie? High School Musical???). And there's not really a Disney Channel "representation" argument to be made here when we already list Hannah Montana  5, and I'm saying this as someone who grew up watching this show and countless other Disney Channel works. With that being said, I might support a swap with some other show if a decent argument could be made, but I still think just Hannah Montana is enough. (Update: I think Bluey (2018 TV series)  5 also counts as Disney, but at least that's listed on the lines of representation and I wouldn't remove it. So technically, there's two Disney Channel series listed already.)

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 04:07, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Definitely has a high reception. I would argue that it is influential to Gen-Z, but it's not much to argue when we got Hannah Montana  5 as you said. 49p (talk) 05:10, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 13:11, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:25, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Chinese Super League and Egyptian Premier League  5

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We underrepresent China in many ways, but we don’t need to list every major country’s football league. Considering we don’t list Egyptian or Chinese footballers.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:37, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 18:14, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Support remove Chinese Super League. Had a surge in relevance in the mid 2010s with big splashy signings but a continued legacy is yet to be seen. Aurangzebra (talk) 16:54, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
4. Support removing China and Nigeria per Aurangzebra. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:49, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose removing Egyptian Premier League. It is arguably the most important league in all of Africa (it rotates between Morocco and Egypt). Their big two clubs, Zamalek SC (41 interwikis) and Al Ahly (54 interwikis), have extremely significant continental importance. The Egyptian Premier League is also deeply intertwined with Egypt's history and is responsible for borderline VA5 events such as the Port Said Stadium riot.

Discuss

1. I would support removing Nigeria Professional Football League instead of the Egyptian Premier League. How this was ever included, I have no clue. You can see in the article's section under Association Ranking for the 2024-25 CAF club season, it's not even in the top 10 best African leagues (note that Egypt is first). Its most successful club, Enyimba, only has 29 interwikis and has only won the African Champions League twice. Meanwhile, the top 2 most winningest clubs in all of Africa are both Egyptian. Aurangzebra (talk) 16:54, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Jersey Shore (TV series)

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Popular during its airing with millennials? Sure. Is it really an influential TV-Show? Not really. There are better reality TV-shows are added, with some already listed like The Bachelor (American TV series)  5, and Jersey Shore is not the best pick for one. It's only listed probably due to being really popular for its time, not much happened after that.

Support

1. 49p (talk) 04:58, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 13:11, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Seems not enduring. starship.paint (RUN) 05:53, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
4. Wzrd517 (talk) 02:10, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove List of glassware and List of raw fish dishes

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Sparse list articles in the Everyday Life section.

Support

1. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:18, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 13:11, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:07, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:53, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Shanghai Library  5

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Important library that's missing. May support swap with Boston Public Library which is nominated above. Interstellarity (talk) 00:58, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 00:58, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Support swap with BPL Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 17:28, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Support swap Iostn (talk) 12:04, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Supporting swap with BPL. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:39, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

1. I'd support a swap, but not a straight addition. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

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A few classic rock work removals

Arts is over quota and I think its pretty well agreed upon that there is a classic rock bias within the vital articles list. For a while now, I've been trying to pick a couple rock works that we can remove, and I think I've figured out a few songs that we can do without. All of these do not seem to have a wide impact on the industry nor society as a whole, and therefore, I think we can discuss their removal. λ NegativeMP1 20:26, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Remove My Generation

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Doesn't seem to have left a major impact on its genre or the music industry as a whole. Ranking on a few lists isn't enough to warrant vitality in an over quota section. It also doesn't help that The Who  5 is already a V5 artist, meaning that whatever impact this song may have left is probably covered there already.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 20:26, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
2. The Who is an iconic band, but I don't know if any of their songs are V5 worthy, especially since like mentioned above, they're only a V5 band. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 23:20, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Easily the weakest vitality claims of the three (plenty of creative works have been removed for mere positive reception), plus the lowest pageviews.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:59, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:53, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Love Will Tear Us Apart  5

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One publication considering this the best single of all time (not even the best song of all time) and ranking on a few other lists isn't enough. There is very little in this article that suggests a major impact or legacy, and the band that made it is V5 already. And if we want to play the interwikis argument, this song only has 17 interwikis (the average for a "major song" is about 24 or so, even outside of VA). I don't think it's possible to justify this song staying in an over-quota section influenced by bias.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 20:26, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Strong support. No idea how this was listed over, say, We Will Rock You or something from Lynyrd Skynyrd  5 or Van Halen  5. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 23:22, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Strong oppose (as if removing New Order (band) wasn't enough...). This is probably the single most well-known representative of Post-punk that remains famous to this day. I don't know if maybe the article could be improved to better outline its impact, but I strongly suspect this might be overlooked here as its possibly less well-known in the US compared to the UK (at least, judging by the charts section). I'll also add pageviews for the past 30 days are well above both of the others nominated here (13.8k vs 10.8k for Hound Dog and 6.5k for My Generation). Iostn (talk) 20:49, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

   In my defense, this article does a REALLY bad job at demonstrating its legacy, if it truly has one. If you can dig something up for how important this song is, I'm always open to changing my mind. But at present, there's nothing here. λ NegativeMP1 20:58, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

   From sources I could find quicklyish focusing specifically on the influence of the song itself, there's these: [1] [2] [3]

   Although come to think of it, I could possibly see an argument for swapping this for Unknown Pleasures. Iostn (talk) 21:06, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

   I think a swap would be fine. The sources you provided still aren't particularly convincing about how the standalone song is significant beyond the band itself, but Unknown Pleasures seems to be a worthy swap if you're against an outright removal, and it has double the interwikis as well. As for the comment from Makkool below this one, I don't think being an "iconic song" in the popular music of one country is enough for vitality. λ NegativeMP1 05:22, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

2. Per above. An iconic song in UK popular music. (I would also support a swap with Unknown Pleasures, Joy Division should be represented in some way.) Makkool (talk) 11:20, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Hound Dog (song)

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This song got covered by a bunch of different artists and had some legal stuff going on, but beyond that I don't think this song is all that significant. Same argument for the two proposals above applies here, a few rankings and appearances in media isn't really enough. Unless we're including this song so that Elvis Presley  4 has more sub-topics, in which case I might withdraw.

Support

1. As nom. (Per below, I would also support a swap with Jailhouse Rock (song)). λ NegativeMP1 20:26, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Support swap with Jailhouse Rock Kevinishere15 (talk) 01:14, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:53, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
4. As per my comment below, support ONLY a swap with Jailhouse Rock, not just a removal. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 18:33, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose swapping with Jailhouse Rock, neutral on removal. According to the article, Hound Dog seems to be much more note-worthy, as Presley's highest-selling single, #19 on Rolling Stone's greatest songs of all-time list, and as a "an emblem of the rock 'n' roll revolution". Makkool (talk) 17:10, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• I believe the song was listed because of the Elvis version, as that's the most iconic version. But I'd argue Jailhouse Rock (song) is a more worthy inclusion. I'd be ok with a swap for JR, but I'm not sure about a straight up removal. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 23:26, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

  Would undoubtedly support a swap with Jailhouse Rock, though I'm going to keep this proposal as simply removing this song. λ NegativeMP1 23:43, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Nigeria Professional Football League

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I mentioned we should remove this in one of the threads above but reposting as a full thread. You can see in the article's section under Association Ranking for the 2024-25 CAF club season, it's not even in the top 10 best African leagues. It's not clear if we should even include one African soccer league so I think it is safe to say that the 12th best league in Africa definitely does not deserve a spot. Its most successful club, Enyimba, only has 29 interwikis and has only won the African Champions League twice.

Support

1. as nom Aurangzebra (talk) 17:01, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:20, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 17:12, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:25, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

@Feminist: you supported this proposal in an above thread, just pinging you that I have an official thread for this here. Aurangzebra (talk) 23:51, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

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Remove World Mission Society Church of God

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The topic is 30 articles over-quota, and the World Mission Society Church of God is a not-that-big (100,000 as of 2013) cult (believes an elderly Korean lady is God). All the other denominations listed are major ones, but I don't think this one fits. I don't know for sure (cannot find the numbers) but I imagine there are other cults of similar size; this one definitely does not have the notability of Scientology and the Unification Church. If it is not removed, I also think it should be moved to New Religious Movements, as it is currently in Christian Denominations.

Support

1. As nom. Mrfoogles (talk) 19:35, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

   Tagging @Penitence, who mentioned it probably being removed on the article's talk page Mrfoogles (talk) 04:36, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

2. Support removal Makkool (talk) 11:12, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 13:57, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:53, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Political ideologies cleanup

Remove Corporate capitalism

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This doesn't even really refer to an ideology as much as it is simply a phrase used to refer to the practices of large companies, or a state where large companies exist under capitalism - which is just capitalism, most of the time.

Support

1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 14:33, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 14:12, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Kind of crazy that this one is currently a VA. Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:21, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Black conservatism

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A weirdly niche and specific concept to list at VA5, definitely not one of the fundamental political ideologies to list here.

Support

1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 14:33, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 14:12, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:21, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Cultural conservatism

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Very similar to Social conservatism  5, which is also listed here and is a more commonly-used term.

Support

1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 14:33, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 14:12, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:30, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Market fundamentalism

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More of a derogatory term for Economic liberalism  5 or Neoliberalism  5 than a distinct ideology.

Support

1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 14:33, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Ultranationalism

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Alas, very influential as a political phenomenon, both historically and currently, across the world.

Support

1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 14:33, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
2. λ NegativeMP1 06:12, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Separatism  5

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Overlaps with Secession  5, but the beliefs driving it are also very important to discuss in their own right

Support

1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 14:33, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 14:12, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:21, 20 July 2024 (UTC)4
4. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:30, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Cold War strategies

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There were three main stratigies applied by the US during the Cold War, détente, containment and rollback. The Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@The Blue Rider: wouldn't these be better placed in "History?" Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:26, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Hm, not really even though they became popular they are still used nowadays. The Blue Rider 15:02, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Add Détente  5

Détente is a strategy aimed at relaxing tensions between two countries. It was first utilized by the Kennedy administration during the Cuban Missile Crisis  4, which ultimately led to the establishment of the red telephone. This approach was further employed by Richard Nixon, resulting in the negotiation of several important treaties, including the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and the Helsinki Accords (both should also be added). Détente played a crucial role in bringing an end to the Vietnam War and contributed to the improvement of relations between the US and China, ultimately leading to China's entrance into the United Nations. The Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:08, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:03, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Containment  5

Containment was a strategy aimed at halting the spread of communism, largely driven by the belief in the domino theory (which should also be added). With the fall of China, Cuba, and other nations to communism, Harry Truman, through his Truman Doctrine  5, initiated interventions in multiple countries that were on the brink of succumbing to communism. These interventions included the Greek Civil War  5, the Korean War  4, the Vietnam War  4, Guatemalan Civil War  5, among others. The Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:08, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:03, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Rollback  5

The final strategy, and the most aggressive one, involved actively intervening in communist countries with the aim of changing their regimes. This approach was primarily utilized by Reagan and the Bushes administrations. It resulted in interventions such as the Bay of Pigs Invasion  5, support for the Contras in Nicaragua, the United States invasion of Grenada  5, and more recently, the United States invasion of Afghanistan. The Blue Rider 13:00, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:08, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:00, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add economics subfields

Add Behavioral economics  5

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48 interwikis, high-importance in economics and business Wikiprojects. The ideas presented by the research in this subfield have been used by governments (see the article for nudge theory) and corporations and many famous VA5 economists such as Daniel Kahneman  5 and Richard Thaler  5 have won Nobel Prizes in Economics for their contributions to the field. Also in the public conscious due to being the subject of many chart-topping pop science books such as Thinking Fast and Slow.

Support

1. As nominator. Aurangzebra (talk) 06:11, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
2. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:22, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 11:56, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 03:42, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:30, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:13, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• @The Blue Rider: I think you mentioned that you would support a proposal like this so bringing it to your attention. Aurangzebra (talk) 18:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  I did recommend somewhere to add this, thanks. The Blue Rider 11:56, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add Mechanism design

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Only 19 interwikis but a critical subfield of economics. It is the study of finding a way to structure an event such that the outcome optimizes a desired social choice function. This is applied to market design (such as spectrum auctions or student matching programs like the National Resident Matching Program), politics (with voting theory), and even computer networking. Maybe not that well-known outside economics but influential enough in everyday life to warrant a spot.

Support

1. As nominator. Aurangzebra (talk) 06:11, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Quinceañera  5

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A long lasting, widespread tradition in families from Spanish speaking countries and regions that seems to be getting more popular each year. Seems to be a fair choice for V5. Would go in "Festivals, holidays, and observances."

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 18:33, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
2. 3df (talk) 01:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk) 13:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 17:39, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Corporal punishment  5

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A historically common form of Punishment  4 which persists in some countries. Compare Capital punishment  4, which is at V4.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:42, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:05, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:03, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:09, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
6. Per nom Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:25, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:02, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove American Slavery As It Is

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Not a particularly influential abolitionist text.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom., article has low page views.Makkool (talk) 09:00, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:33, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
4. 2 interwikis only. Lacks cross cultural appeal. starship.paint (RUN) 02:01, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. SnowFire (talk) 18:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Actually, the article said that it influenced several works, including Uncle Tom's Cabin  4, continued having influence into the 21st century, and helped recruit people for the abolitionist movement. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Seven Nation Army

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This song was added without consensus by @TDKR Chicago 101:, before obviously being reverted, so I'm giving it a fair discussion. In my opinion, while this is a semi-important work, I'm not sure if it's really "vital" worthy, and there's songs/albums I'd list before it (I still think one Taylor Swift  4 album and Never Gonna Give You Up  5 could be added), and I'm only creating this discussion as to give the proposal a fair chance.

Support

Oppose

1. Not in Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs of All Time Makkool (talk) 15:51, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

It technically is, granted it's at 36th. λ NegativeMP1 16:09, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I was going by a very cursory search. Didn't try to mislead anyone else, just tried to convince myself for my intuition to not include this. #36 is still a low enough to keep opposing. Makkool (talk) 18:04, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

1. As the nom. λ NegativeMP1 12:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• "Can't Help Falling in Love" was also added by him in the same instance. Makkool (talk) 18:04, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

  Meh, I didn't make a discussion for that one because I knew for a fact it didn't stand a chance in a real discussion. At least Seven Nation Army had some merit. λ NegativeMP1 15:59, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

• About your comments about other albums and songs to add, I would support adding Never Gonna Give You Up. I would say it's pretty well known for pop music. As for Taylor Swift, I would agree but the problem is that which one is going to be hard. They're all well known, but they're pretty similar. I think it would boiled down to 1989 or Red. 49p (talk) 02:01, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

  I agree with everything you said, though my rationale for NGGYU isn't entirely because it's recognizable, but because it'd be an example of an Internet meme. As for a Taylor Swift album, I agree it's between 1989 and Red. I strongly believe that a V4 singer should have at least one work listed at V5. I tried to get 1989 added a few weeks ago, though it didn't get any responses and I withdrew it. Maybe Red would be better due to it technically being higher on the best albums list from Rolling Stone. λ NegativeMP1 02:20, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Blue Moon of Kentucky

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Since Arts is over quota and I've nominated/supported many additions to an over-quota section lately, I want to nominate something for removal to compensate, and I think this is one that can go.

The very article for Country music  4 itself states in its opening paragraph that country music around the time of this songs creation was only popular in specific areas of the United States, and this song didn't help establish the genre or expand it out of the South. I believe that this song has the least amount of interwikis for a song at V5 not performed by a V4 or above artist (11), solidifying this songs lack of wide cultural influence on its own alongside the lack of any legacy to speak of. And finally, as hinted at earlier, its creator Bill Monroe  5 is only a V5 artist. I could maybe see a rationale for including it for representation of the genre, but even then there's other songs I would list before this one and I think the other four country songs listed are basically perfect. Maybe one of two more country songs (or albums) could be added later down the line if Arts is ever contained.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 23:15, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom, maybe important in its genre but its hard to justify when we already need cuts Iostn (talk) 23:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

   Did you mean to put this vote in support? λ NegativeMP1 00:02, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

   Yes, fixed sorry Iostn (talk) 00:07, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 21:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Dora the Explorer, add Dora the Explorer (TV series)  5

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I think it is fair to say that the series itself is more important than the franchise as a whole.

Support

1. As nominator (Oinkers42) (talk) 16:58, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. The original show trumps the franchise almost always. Makkool (talk) 18:14, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 00:48, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
4. 49p (talk) 05:11, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

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Remove Candy Land  5 and Ball-in-a-maze puzzle

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Fairly obscure games.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:37, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Support ball-in-a-maze puzzle, neutral on Candy Land. It is incredibly well-selling and very popular in the US, but it has 0 interwikis. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 21:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Support both Makkool (talk) 18:14, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:49, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
5. Support ball-in-a-maze puzzle since it is not that important. Oppose Candy Land since it is extremely popular in the United States and sells a million copies every year. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

The "million copies a year" statistic is from a 2005 book, I doubt it still sells that much. Kevinishere15 (talk) 20:55, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

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Add Apocalypse  5

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An important concept in Abrahamic religions. Rated Top-Importance in Wikiproject Religion. We already list Book of Revelation  5 and Eschatology  4, but I think this article could be listed as well.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 08:31, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:06, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
4. Well known concept. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 22:05, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
5. I feel like this should be V4. λ NegativeMP1 02:33, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove International Practical Shooting Confederation

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During my nomination of the International Defensive Pistol Association some of you expressed support for removing this one as well. Not as relevant to shooting sports as the International Shooting Sport Federation  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:22, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 05:35, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:14, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 16:19, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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So many European Union-related oversights!

I'm sure there are more articles that could be added but this is what I gathered from a quick glance. Also, I'm only going to provide very brief reasonings since I don't have the patient to do longer ones as of now. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Add Schengen Area  5

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Extremely important since it allows the free movement of people in 29 countries without any kind of Border control  5.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. A key concept for the EU. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:49, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:33, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint 13:18, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 17:09, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
6. Iostn (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
7. Obviously. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:58, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
8. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:08, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add European single market  5

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Equally important since it allows the free movement of capital, people, services and goods in 32 countries.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. A key concept for the EU. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:47, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Certainly level 5 (and maybe even 4). Aszx5000 (talk) 11:56, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Maastricht Treaty  5

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It created the European Union  3 and its main pillars!

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
3. As important as the Treaty of Lisbon  5 that amended it. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:57, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:08, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Treaty of Rome  5

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It created the European Coal and Steel Community  5, European Economic Community  5 and Euratom  5!

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Aszx5000 (talk) 11:58, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Schuman Declaration

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A declaration that was fulcral to the creation of the European Coal and Steel Community  5, would put it on the same level as the Fourteen Points. It is more important than you think, 47 interwikis!

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Some businesses analysis

Basic concepts that are taught at businesses and economics bachelor's. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Add SWOT analysis  5

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Widely used framework that companies utilize to help decision-making, specifically their strenghts (S), weaknesses (W), opportunities (O) and threats (T); 57 interwikis. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Very widely used term in business. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add PEST analysis

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Another widely used framework that companies utilize to know their macro-environmental factors, such as political (P), economic (E), social (S) and technological (T); sometimes it is extended as PESTEL to include other factors. 35 interwikis. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Porter's five forces analysis  5

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Finally, a widely method used to get a sense of the competition a company is facing. It includes, threat of new entrants, threat of substitutes, bargaining power of customers, bargaining power of suppliers and competitive rivalry. 34 interwikis. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Very famous framework in business. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Tabletop game  5

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Parent topic to Board game and Card game. Interstellarity (talk) 23:54, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 23:54, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom., we need the parent topic too Makkool (talk) 18:27, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Army men

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Has few interwikis (only 8) and lacks the historicity or ubiquity of Toy soldier, which is unlisted _pbp 17:35, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 17:35, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
2. λ NegativeMP1 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Support swap with the more general Toy soldier. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Support swap with toy soldier or Tin soldier. Makkool (talk) 05:19, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Toys don't have a lot of interwikis even if they are pretty famous. Even after Piotrus proposals we are still underrepresented in toys; we have space for army man and toy solider, support addition the latter. The Blue Rider 03:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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Remove Higher education

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The article was merged into Tertiary education  5. IDBLWK (talk) 05:56, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. IDBLWK (talk) 05:57, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 18:36, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 14:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 16:19, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Massively multiplayer online game  5 and Online game  5

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Redundant, as we already list Multiplayer video game  5 and Massively multiplayer online role-playing game  5.

Support both

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose both

1. Would much rather remove said articles they would be redundant to or History of online games. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 16:12, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Online game is distinct enough from multiplayer game IMO, since local multiplayer has existed for much longer and remains popular, and MMORPG should be removed before MMO. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Mixed

Discuss

1. I personally would have chosen to remove Massively multiplayer online role-playing game  5, since that would have been covered enough in Massively multiplayer online game  5. λ NegativeMP1 18:33, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

1. I chose to keep MMORPG, because that is overwhelmingly the most common type of MMOG. We list World of Warcraft  5, but I don't think we have any vital non-rpg MMOGs. Makkool (talk) 18:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

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Alternative proposal: Remove Multiplayer video game  5 and Massively multiplayer online role-playing game  5

As my previous proposal didn't get traction, and one editor expressed interest in removing these articles instead, I decided to open this alternative proposal. I still haven't changed my own stance to support, but I'd like to have this up for discussion.

Remove Multiplayer video game

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Support

Oppose

1. More vital than Online game  5, if we decide to keep only one. Makkool (talk) 11:41, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Definitely not. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Multiplayer has been a part of video games since Pong  5 and the earliest video game consoles that were exclusively that game. If we could only list 50 video game related articles period in a hypothetical scenario, this should still be in that 50. λ NegativeMP1 05:33, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Strong oppose removal, one of the most important game concepts. Kevinishere15 (talk) 23:37, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove MMORPG

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Support

1. Too specific, MMORPG is covered by listing MMO and RPG in my opinion. World of Warcraft is also an MMO, not just an MMORPG. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:35, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Because we list World of Warcraft  5 Makkool (talk) 11:41, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Makkool, despite my thoughts that led to this proposal in the first place (sorry). I feel like we're at the point where there are no more video game concepts we can remove (excluding the currently nominated ones), as we've gotten it down to a decent number and now its down to trying to find replacements that are more worthy of "vitality". λ NegativeMP1 05:33, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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