Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ukraine/Archive 7

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Soviet articles and categories under the scope of this WikiProject

Hi. I noticed that “Sino-Soviet relations” was tagged under WikiProject Russia, presumably as this is part of the history of international relations of the Russian Federation. Since Ukraine is also a Soviet successor state, and these aspects of Soviet history are parts of Ukrainian history, I tagged the article as part of our project. This was reverted by user:WikiCleanerMan, and led to an inconclusive discussion at User talk:WikiCleanerMan#WikiProjects for Sino-Soviet relations. Also discussed was my addition of some historical Soviet categories under Russian and Ukrainian category trees.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]

Questions resulting follow in separate sections. —Michael Z. 23:19, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Soviet Union articles under WikiProject Ukraine

Do we as a project want Soviet state-related articles to be under the purview of this project? I am thinking especially of articles on subjects like international relations, where for much of Soviet history the central state served to conduct relations and sign treaties whose legacy was inherited by Ukraine. —Michael Z. 23:19, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Soviet Union categories under Ukraine categories

Do categories about such subjects belong equally to Ukrainian and Russian category trees (presumably at least Belarusian too, as the third republic with a UNGA seat, although this probably applies to all twelve successor states, if not to the three occupied Baltic states). —Michael Z. 23:19, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Category:1907 establishments in Yekaterinoslav Governorate has been nominated for discussion

Category:1907 establishments in Yekaterinoslav Governorate, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for rename. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrownHairedGirl (talk • contribs) 05:34, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Kamianske, Kamianske Raion, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast#Requested move 28 October 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Kamianske, Kamianske Raion, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast#Requested move 28 October 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. UtherSRG (talk) 14:55, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Eastern Ukraine offensive#Requested move 13 October 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Eastern Ukraine offensive#Requested move 13 October 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky (talk) 15:00, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Artemy Vedel

This Ukrainian composer has been up for a pre-FA peer review for several weeks now, without any responses. Is anyone able to take a look for me? Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 22:34, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Boundary between Mykolaiv Oblast and Kherson Oblast

There is conflicting info and maps of the boundary. Did it change at some point? See Talk:Bezimenne, Snihurivka urban hromada, Bashtanka Raion, Mykolaiv Oblast#Mykolaiv Oblast or Kherson Oblast?. Nurg (talk) 01:16, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Encyclopedia of Ukraine at the reliable sources noticeboard

The Encyclopedia of Ukraine is being discussed at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Encyclopedia of Ukraine. —Michael Z. 04:36, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Verification needed by a fluent Ukrainian reader

Is someone able to read a 4,500-word essay from the Entsyklopediia Ukrainoznavstva[10] and verify that it is accurately reflected in Encyclopedia of Ukraine#Reprint in Ukraine? (Reading through that is rather laborious for me, but I will tackle it eventually if no one else can.) Thanks.  —Michael Z. 04:53, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Rewrite of article

The article Torture in Ukraine is currently full of unreliable/biased sources and general POV pushing. I am going to blank it pending further discussion on the talk page; any input by Ukrainians with knowledge on the subject, particularly on how to rewrite the article in a neutral tone, would be highly appreciated. Fermiboson (talk) 05:49, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

My-Ukraine

I moved this article from the title My — Ukraina. The name is Ми — Україна and is also rendered as "We Ukraine" (their website is weukraine.tv) and "We Are Ukraine" in translation. Can someone help me figure out the correct page title? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:46, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Their social media is consistently at the handle weukrainetv. As for the translation, both we and we are is valid. I'd go with We Ukraine.SamBroGaming (talk) 16:45, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

I moved it back. The channel is not called “my Ukraine” it is “We are Ukraine” in Ukrainian. Unless you want to change it to English we should not misleadingly half translate it.—Ermenrich (talk) 17:08, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Should articles about the 2014-15 invasion of Ukraine still reflect Russia’s denials in the infobox

At present numerous articles about the 2014-15 invasion (eg the articles about the 2014 battle for Donetsk airport) include the Russians as present in the infobox, but qualify this with the term “claimed by Ukraine”. I would suggest that some things have happened since then and this should be revised. Specifically, no-one serious now doubts that the Russians were present in Ukraine at that time, the Russian government no longer denies having supported DNR/LNR, and numerous obituaries include details of Russian officers having served in Donbas in 2014/15. In a number of cases Russia never explicitly denied that it’s forces were present at a particular battle - there was only the general denial that they were involved in Donbas at all, which is now generally acknowledged by experts not to have been true.

I think the Vietnam war here offers a good parallel, since both North Vietnam and the US denied at the time that they were involved in certain actions. For example, North Vietnam denied that it was infiltrating NVA troops into South Vietnam. Nowadays we don’t bother to recite in the infobox that NVA troops were only “claimed by the US/South Vietnam” to have been present at a battle simply because North Vietnam made blanket denials. See Battle of Huế for an example of this.

Of course Russian denials of involvement in Donbas in 2014/15 should still be covered where appropriate in the body-text of the article, where they can be given the appropriate context. Just not in the infobox. FOARP (talk) 07:42, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Anatevka (village)

This article appears to be part of this project, but the banner is not on the talk page. 76.14.122.5 (talk) 00:59, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

• Added : I added the banner and assessed the page. If anyone objects, please feel free to undo. Radzy0 (talk) 20:14, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Cleanup on "Requests" section

Currently the requests section includes several articles which have already been made (see 5 September 2013 request on creating articles for Vladislav Troitsky, DakhaBrakha, and the Dakh Contemporary Arts Center), as well as requests that probably do not deserve an article (such as a request to create "Malorossiya" based on one Telegraph article from 2017). I'm willing to perform the work of clearing myself, but I would appreciate consensus or some sort of idea on what actions would be appropriate to take beforehand.

Mupper-san (talk) 01:28, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Lists of public art

Please help to expand List of public art in Kyiv, and create similar pages for other cities or oblasts. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:37, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Ukraine after the Russian Revolution#Requested move 13 January 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Ukraine after the Russian Revolution#Requested move 13 January 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky (talk) 14:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 15 January 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) The Night Watch (talk) 20:33, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

---

• Izyaslav of Polotsk → Iziaslav of Polotsk
• Yaropolk Izyaslavich → Yaropolk Iziaslavich

– For WP:CONSISTENCY with the majority of existing articles in spelling and romanization method with the root name:

• Iziaslav I of Kiev
• Iziaslav II of Kiev
• Iziaslav III of Kiev
• Iziaslav IV Vladimirovich
• Iziaslav (Brutskiy)

And other eponyms:

• Iziaslav, Ukraine
• Iziaslav Raion

Also WP:COMMONNAME: the patronymic form Iziaslavich has been primarily spelled with the i form for much of the last fifty years (and only matched by the y form after the Wikipedia article was written).[11] The i-form spelling of the root, the given name Iziaslav, is at least as common as the alternative.[12]  —Michael Z. 20:22, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Support per nom—blindlynx 21:50, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

• Support per multiple nomination and per blindlynx. The links provided as corroborative evidence are convincing. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 22:36, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Support Good points. --TylerBurden (talk) 03:19, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2023 Brovary helicopter crash listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for 2023 Brovary helicopter crash to be moved to Brovary helicopter crash. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 20:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.

Yurii Khmelnytsky

As there is already an article for Yurii Khmelnytsky son of Bohdan Khmelnytsky. What would be a good page name for Yurii, brother of Bohdan? I ran across his name when working on Sosnytsia Regiment article. Both articles are not created yet. Thank you for your help. Ceriy (talk) 20:27, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Without knowing much about the subject, Yurii Mykhailovych Khmelnytskyi sounds reasonable.  —Michael Z. 23:32, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Skala Battalion

I have created an article for Skala Battalion, a volunteer unit fighting in Ukraine. If someone here has article reviewing rights I would appreciate if they could have a look at it, and also of course everyone is welcome to help expand it. TylerBurden (talk) 19:24, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

FAR for Ed Stelmach

User:Buidhe has nominated Ed Stelmach for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:02, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Ukrainian prehistoric culture pages

There are several pages on Ukrainian prehistoric cultures on English Wikipedia that are either part of the History of Russia group or are cross-referenced as being part of the Russian history. Check, for example, the Stednij Stog and the Mariupol Culture pages. Is there any way these can be decoupled from Russian history? Uteliasahma (talk) 18:47, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#RFC: Occupation in infobox for localities affected by the ongoing military conflict

Tired of constant edit-warring across many articles, I opened the above RfC. Please participate. Ymblanter (talk) 23:34, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Second Battle of Kharkov

Second Battle of Kharkov has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 00:25, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 7 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. While "Kharkiv" and "Kyiv" are the common names now for the articles, we don't tend to retroactively apply COMMONNAME in cases where the article covers something that happened entirely when the COMMONNAME is different (see also: Sack of Constantinople, not Istanbul (insert obligatory TMBG joke here); Black Hole of Calcutta, not Kolkata). (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 20:14, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

---

• Jungsturm (Kharkov) → Jungsturm (Kharkiv)
• Der Komunist (Kharkov) → Der Komunist (Kharkiv)
• Der shtern (Kharkov) → Der shtern (Kharkiv)
• Die Völkerfreiheit (Kiev) → Die Völkerfreiheit (Kyiv)

– The parenthetic disambiguation names are Wikipedia subject-area disambiguators, referring to the main-article topics Kharkiv and Kyiv. They are labels used to help readers identify subjects appearing in various contexts.

These microcontent labels are not article body text that might want to conform to any domain-specific jargon in order to provide encyclopedic information, e.g., to place them within the subject area of Ukrainian history, and they appear in non-historical contexts. They especially appear in various category listings, most of which are not specifically history-related.

Currently, these articles appear in some categories that place the articles’ subjects in the context of Ukraine’s pre-independence:

• 1936 disestablishments in the Soviet Union
• Komsomol
• Publications disestablished in 1919
• Publications disestablished in 1922
• Publications disestablished in 1941

But they also appear in other categories which are not specific to history:

• 1925 establishments in the Soviet Union
• Daily newspapers published in Ukraine
• Defunct newspapers published in Ukraine
• German-language communist newspapers
• Jews and Judaism in Kharkiv
• Mass media in Kharkiv
• Mass media in Kyiv
• Newspapers established in 1919
• Newspapers established in 1920
• Newspapers published in Ukraine
• Publications established in 1925
• Secular Jewish culture in Europe
• Socialism in Ukraine
• Yiddish communist newspapers
• Yiddish culture in Ukraine

Relevant guidelines:

• WP:Article titles#Disambiguation: use the same disambiguating phrase already commonly used for other topics within the same class and context, if any.
• wp:DAB#Naming the specific topic articles: use only as much additional detail as necessary, implying that we should use the broadest version of the disambiguation subject, not a domain-specific one.

Current usage of the respective paranthetic disambiguation strings (patience: slow-loading grep search links):

• (Kyiv) 30
• (Kiev) 1
• (Kharkiv) 4
• (Kharkov) 3

This RM follows the precedent of Folkstsaytung (Kyiv) about a 1917–1919 newspaper, which was established in a detailed discussion at Talk:Folkstsaytung (Kyiv)#Requested move 28 September 2020.  —Michael Z. 22:16, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support per deeply researched nomination. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 06:54, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
• Support Per above. TylerBurden (talk) 09:04, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - whilst English language media usage is definitely affected by the events of the past 11 months, the notion that 'Kharkov' and 'Kiev' would be foreign names is incorrect. Applying present-day usage in English backwards is an open invite to historical revisionism, and would be disruptive if applied for Pressburg/Bratislava, Calcutta/Kolkata, etc. --Soman (talk) 13:02, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Soman. The cities were then invariably known as Kharkov and Kiev. This is like saying that the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire was Istanbul or the capital of British India was Kolkata. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:55, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

  That is simply untrue. The spelling Kiev was unknown before about 1792, and several others were in use up to the 1920s (see wikt:Citations:Kyiv). Before about 1600 the city was wasn’t mentioned in English by any spelling. So to use contemporary names you would have to do a research project, and choose something other disambiguation name for Square of Contracts (Kyiv) (1748 or earlier), Constitution Square (Kyiv) (1750), Ascension Convent (Kyiv) (16th century), Voskresenka (Kyiv) (16th c.), and I don’t know what you intend for a geographical feature named in the fifteenth century like Zamkova Hora (Kyiv) or known since prehistory like Lysa Hora (Kyiv).

  The disambig name has to be the most accessible to readers, not an obscure Early Modern spelling like Kieff, Kiovia, or Kiou, and so the main-article spelling makes the most sense.  —Michael Z. 14:47, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. We're using parenthetical disambiguation based upon the name of the city where the newspapers were published, and it would be anachronistic to change the spelling given how the Anglophone world referred to the cities at the time that the newspapers were published. Reading through the literature that describes the publications (in particular), they tend to be labeled as being from Kharvov, and I see no motivating reason to change the historical name of the city in these articles. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 18:41, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move at Talk:2023 visit by Joe Biden to Ukraine#Requested move 27 February 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2023 visit by Joe Biden to Ukraine#Requested move 27 February 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Fuzheado | Talk 21:44, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Second Cold War (March 2023)

Discussion about maps representing Russia and Ukraine has been started. Link: Talk:Second Cold War#Maps in the Russo-Ukrainian War section. George Ho (talk) 14:46, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Volodymyr Saldo#Requested move 6 March 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Volodymyr Saldo#Requested move 6 March 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 13:53, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Katya Soldak still in AfD, contributions to the discussion are very welcome

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Katya Soldak is maybe of interest for the community here, because Soldak is a Ukrainian journalist, one of the Ukrainian voices, shining light on the Russian war. I hope for some additional contributions to the thorough discussion to reach a clearer consensus soon. Thanks in advance. --J. Lunau (talk) 13:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Reevaluation of Nova Ushytsia article?

Hello

I have been working on the English wikipedia article for Nova Ushytsia, and believe I have moved the article past its previous stub class rating (additional 5,000 bytes, total of 15 sources). If someone could be as kind to take a look and see if the article can be moved up a level or two, it would be much appreciated.

Thank you, EytanMelech (talk) 17:42, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments

Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class= parameter to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 22:09, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Onion dome

Onion dome has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Hog Farm _Talk 14:25, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Yevhen Minko

Those of you who are lucky enough to be able to read Ukrainian might look at the Ukrainian-language sources cited in Draft:Yevhen Minko and see if the use that's made of them is as questionable as is the use made of a few English-language sources that I checked. I hope not; I hope that the use of English-language sources is anomalous. (This draft, which was submitted for promotion to an article, shouldn't be confused with Draft:Yevhen Minko(2), which hasn't been submitted, and which is a conversion (by MrsSnoozyTurtle) from the previous article Yevhen Minko.) -- Hoary (talk) 09:10, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Promoting WP:UKR

I’m proposing that we promote the status of the advice for romanization of Ukrainian names, at Wikipedia talk:Romanization of Ukrainian#Promoting this page to a naming convention.  —Michael Z. 14:06, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. We are using it anyway. Ymblanter (talk) 14:08, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

I’ve posted a formal RFC at Wikipedia talk:Romanization of Ukrainian#RFC: Romanization of Ukrainian as a guideline in the Manual of Style. —Michael Z. 03:09, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

National anthem of Ukraine

If you are interested in the discussion about the anthem’s title, please take part: Talk:National anthem of Ukraine#Commentary on the reverting. VSL (talk) 13:31, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2022–2023 Dnieper campaign#Requested move 29 June 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2022–2023 Dnieper campaign#Requested move 29 June 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – MaterialWorks 09:53, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2022–2023 western Russia attacks#Requested move 24 June 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2022–2023 western Russia attacks#Requested move 24 June 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Sennecaster (Chat) 00:05, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Wikipedia talk:Stress marks in Russian words#Requested move 23 July 2023

An editor has requested that Wikipedia:Stress marks in Russian words be moved to Wikipedia:Stress marks in Russian and Ukrainian words, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion.  —Michael Z. 19:05, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Central Council of Ukraine#Requested move 18 July 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Central Council of Ukraine#Requested move 18 July 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Frostly (talk) 13:09, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Credibility bot

As this is a highly active WikiProject, I would like to introduce you to Credibility bot. This is a bot that makes it easier to track source usage across articles through automated reports and alerts. We piloted this approach at Wikipedia:Vaccine safety and we want to offer it to any subject area or domain. We need your support to demonstrate demand for this toolkit. If you have a desire for this functionality, or would like to leave other feedback, please endorse the tool or comment at WP:CREDBOT. Thanks! Harej (talk) 18:13, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

This sounds like it would really benefit the project. I endorse adopting it. If there are no objections, I’d like to request access at WP:CREDBOT.  —Michael Z. 19:26, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Mykola Krupytskyi Monastery

This draft could use a little attention if anyone is interested in working on articles like this. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:07, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Merging articles on governorates in Ukraine

Proposing a merge of the following governorate (huberniia) articles.

• Kholm Governorate (Russian Empire) (1913–1918) → Kholm Governorate (Ukraine) (1918–1920)
• Kiev Governorate (1708–1764) → Kiev Governorate (1802–1925)
• Little Russia Governorate (1764–1781) → Little Russia Governorate (1796–1802)

Having these as separate articles is just confusing for the reader and inconsistent. Other Ukrainian governorate articles span long periods and several states (e.g., Russian Empire, Ukrainian People’s Republic, Ukrainian State, Ukrainian SSR, and Soviet Union), and Novorossiya Governorate (1764–1783, 1796–1802) covers a 13-year break in its existence. The latter two subjects are each treated under a single article in the Encyclopedia of Ukraine and its online version, for example (while Kholm gubernia is mentioned but has no article).[13][14]

For comparison, other Ukrainian governorates under the Russian empire were Chernihiv (1802–1925), Katerynoslav (1802–1925), Kharkiv (1835–1925), Kherson (1803–1920), Kyiv (1802–1925), Podillia (1793–1925), Poltava (1802–1925), Volyn (1795–1925), as well as part of Tavriіa (1802–1921) existing from the late eighteenth or early nineteenth centuries, and later were added Donets (1919–1925), Kremenchuk (1920–1922), Odesa (1920–1925), and Zaporizhzhia (1920–1922) governorates.  —Michael Z. 21:25, 6 August 2023 (UTC) Added dates. —Michael Z. 15:46, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it makes sense. Ymblanter (talk) 05:41, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Oppose, we shouldn't merge amidnistrative units of two different countries. Marcelus (talk) 11:59, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

But we do it routinely, see e.g. Vologda Governorate. Ymblanter (talk) 12:06, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

No, we do not. Vologda Governorate was a part of the Russian Empire and its successor Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. Marcelus (talk) 18:47, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

If that were something we shouldn’t do, then we should also be splitting and re-splitting the articles about governorates that were in both Category:Governorates of the Russian Empire and not only about a dozen Category:Governorates of Ukraine (one country but three separate states), but also scores of Category:Governorates of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (which were in both independent states RSFSR and USSR), for example. Please get consensus for such a dramatic change to our practices before citing it as a supposed should-do or shouldn’t-do. Until then, this is for consistency of a few outliers. —Michael Z. 14:29, 7 August 2023 (UTC) Edited. —Michael Z. 15:50, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

@Marcelus then do you support or oppose the merge of the Little Russia governorate articles, which were only in the Russian empire?

Can you clarify that by “countries” you mean states? Obviously, Ukraine was a separate country from 1648, then a country colonized by an empire when most of these governorates were created, then kept them as an independent revolutionary country by 1918, then while ruled by a puppet state of Soviet Russia, then a country with the right of secession in the Soviet empire before they were finally dissolved. If you mean states, then most those Ukrainian governorate articles belonged to five states and the implications are severe fragmentation of these subjects, some of which as yet have very little encyclopedic content.  —Michael Z. 16:24, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Ukraine wasn't a separate country in 1648, but there was a Cossack state that was part of PLC, Turkey or Russia, with various degree of autonomy Marcelus (talk) 18:49, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, it was an independent, embattled country after 1648, and an autonomous country from 1654. The Russian tsars started to erode that autonomy immediately, splitting up Ukraine with Poland in 1667, destroying the Zaporizhzhian Sich in 1775, and suppressing Ukrainian language and identity.

That’s a country. Statements that Ukraine wasn’t a country or that it isn’t a nation resemble the hate speech that social media is oversaturated with, and editors should consider their words on the topic if they have trouble writing about Ukrainian history without embarrassing themselves.  —Michael Z. 19:06, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

No, Khmelnytsky state wasn't independent. Initially he was accepting suzerainty of the Commonwealth, later switched to Tsardom.

Statements that Ukraine wasn’t a country or that it isn’t a nation resemble the hate speech that social media is oversaturated with, and editors should consider their words on the topic if they have trouble writing about Ukrainian history without embarrassing themselves - that's Wikipedia:Casting aspersions Marcelus (talk) 19:35, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

So then you’d say Russia wasn’t a country until 1991, right, and no one should have any problem with that?  —Michael Z. 20:48, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

I don't understand this comment. Marcelus (talk) 08:12, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Bortkiewicz' nationality

There is an edit war and accompanying discussion at Talk:Sergei Bortkiewicz regarding whether Bortkiewicz should be described in the lead as Russian, Ukrainian, or possibly a compromise solution. The talk also lacks a clear consensus on whether Russian or Ukrainian place names should be used in the biography section. I'm soliciting input from this Wikiproject and Wikipedia:WikiProject Russia/Performing arts in Russia task force in an effort to build community consensus. 167.102.146.19 (talk) 20:24, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Input needed - Talk:Kievan_Rus'#Iranian_Poliane

There is a discussion about the possible Iranian/Sarmatian origin of Poliane. It's not clear what the scholarly consensus is, so inputs would be helpful. Alaexis_¿question? 11:21, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the Russian invasion of Ukraine/Archive 1#Requested move 4 August 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the Russian invasion of Ukraine/Archive 1#Requested move 4 August 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 08:50, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Olha Kharlan#Requested move 30 July 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Olha Kharlan#Requested move 30 July 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. —usernamekiran (talk) 11:04, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Discussion on CfD regarding the history of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

On WP:CfD there is an important discussion concerning the categorization of people living in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, as well as the shape of the category tree concerning people of Polish nationality. Because of the subject matter, it seemed to me that this discussion might be of interest to participants in this Wikiproject.

Link: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023 August_21#Category:18th-century people from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by occupation Marcelus (talk) 22:28, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Tram networks in Ukraine : check needed

Hello, just wondering if this list of still-working tram networks in the country is still OK ? https://w.wiki/7Kth Thanks Bouzinac (talk) 17:23, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Occupation in infobox for localities affected by the ongoing military conflict 2: Crimea

Back in February, there was a consensus established to not include occupied status of Ukrainian settlements in the infobox. See Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 179#RFC: Occupation in infobox for localities affected by the ongoing military conflict.

This decision was made after some editors had been adding things like “Country: Ukraine (de jure), Russia (de facto)” or otherwise messing with the infobox fields that are meant to show the country-province-district (specifically country-oblast-raion) hierarchy that contains a settlement.

The proposal by @Ymblanter then was to make a decision and apply it to “clear cut cases,” and not to articles on settlements in Crimea, because they were “really administered by Russia.”

But the Crimea distinction was not a real one, and if it weren’t so clear in the past, it is more obvious now. Russia has “annexed” not only Crimea, but also the four other regions where it occupies cities, towns, and villages: in the Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk, and Zaporizhzhia oblasts. At the same time, the Crimean peninsula has become more clearly part of the war zone, as Russian military targets there are hit by Ukrainian artillery, missiles, and drones. More importantly, there’s no reason in any guidelines or consensus to treat Russian occupation in Crimea as special.

We should either A) apply this decision uniformly throughout the occupied territories of Ukraine, and remove occupied status from inboxes, while ensuring that it is properly covered in article text; or B) decide to hold another RFC to rescind the decision, figure out a scheme for representing occupied status throughout settlement infoboxes (in Ukraine and more broadly), and resolve to update it as localities are occupied and liberated in Ukraine.  —Michael Z. 03:28, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

I posted a link to this discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Occupation in infobox for localities affected by the ongoing military conflict 2: Crimea. —Michael Z. 03:40, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

There is still a pretty clear difference between Crimea/Sevastopol and Donetsk / Luhansk/ Zaporizhzhia/ Kherson/ Kharkiv Oblasts. Ymblanter (talk) 03:35, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Settlements in the former were occupied for longer. What else are you thinking of?  —Michael Z. 03:38, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

My thought would be this is premature since there is no early prospect of any part of Crimea being other than Russian-administered and thus there's been no real change from the recent RFC (March 2023). The occasional drone/bomb/other sea or air delivered device has been going on since before then and doesn't seem to affect who controls the land.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:51, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

You’re saying Crimea has no “early prospect” but southeastern Ukraine does. Is that not WP:CRYSTAL? Can you describe this in concrete terms based on RS and related to our guidelines?

1) There was no consensus to believe anything significant about early or late prospects when that consensus was reached, and 2) since then the Russians have built and are expanding defensive lines in Crimea in anticipation of a Ukrainian advance into the peninsula, the Ukrainians have increased attacks and put Russian ground lines of communication into and out of Crimea under fire, the Russians have evacuated submarines and ships from Sevastopol, and the Ukrainians have just now conducted another commando op into Crimea.

The situation of conflict and occupation after sham referendums is the same in all parts of Russian-occupied Ukraine, differing only in details, like the specific date of a settlement’s occupation. There is no reason to privilege the Russian occupation of the one over the other by subverting the subdivision fields in infobox templates.

The consensus was intended “in principle” to apply generally to infoboxes in articles on occupied settlements anywhere. Settlements in southeastern Ukraine were seen as a field where this disruptive form of non-NPOV data in infoboxes was spreading and urgently needed to be dealt with. Now that that is stably resolved, we should deal with the same situation in articles on settlements in Crimea, because there is no NPOV reason to treat it differently.  —Michael Z. 20:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

The other oblasts are active war zones with part controlled by each side in each case. It makes sense for the sake of stability not to go back and forth depending on who controls it. Crimea and Sebastopol may soon fall into that category, or may not, but do not now, and Russian control is nine years old. Without showing disrespect to anyone, it makes sense to list in the infobox details of the present administration by Russia as reflecting the situation as it is, and not as we might like it to be. As you say, we cannot predict the future per WP:CRYSTAL. Accordingly, we should not anticipate what the fortunes of war may bring, and there is time enough to do it later. At the present time the existing consensus governs, and there has not been time or reason to disturb it. Wehwalt (talk) 15:46, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Parts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts have also been occupied for over nine years, and Crimea is part of the active war zone with strikes on a daily basis and part of Russian forces already driven out, so these are not qualitative, substantial distinctions.  —Michael Z. 22:55, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Note that, unlike Crimea, these territories were not formally annexed by Russia until much later. I'm not sure if this matters for the discussion though. MarioGom (talk) 08:26, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Russian laws are implemented in Crimea, they are not implemented in Donetsk. There is freedom of movement between Crimea and RUssia, there is no freedom of movement between Russia and LUhansk. There are people who moved from Russia to Crimea, there are no people who moved from Russia to the occupied areas of Kherson Oblast unless they are military personnel or are on a temporrary mission and get moved back after the mission is deemed to expire (some of them do not even move and stay in Moscow while formally being in Berdiansk. Ymblanter (talk) 01:41, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Russia is resettling all of the occupied territories: it is settling Russians in Mariupol and elsewhere as they had already been doing in Crimea, and forcibly deporting Ukrainians from all of these regions. And also changing the population by forcing Russian passports onto Ukrainians, everywhere it can. I don’t know why “people moved” should affect displaying occupied status in the infobox anyway.

You’ll have to explain this about Russian law, and why should matter more than, for example, Russian propaganda, because both are things the Kremlin makes up, amends, enforces, and violates selectively and arbitrarily. And I don’t even know what you mean by implemented here but not there, because what’s “annexed,” i.e. where Russian law supposedly is in force, is much greater than what’s occupied, only aspirational, and actually illegal (and probably technically violates Russia’s constitution).

I don’t think Russian law should dictate what we put into infoboxes.

Unlike those things, there is a significant de facto distinction between what’s occupied by Russian forces and what’s not, and that is what this discussion is about: “occupation in infobox.”  —Michael Z. 23:08, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Wolfsangel or Idea of a Nation

What is this WikiProject's opinion on the naming of a symbol used in several far-right Ukrainian political groups' logos? Is the symbol seen at eg. Azov Brigade or Social-National Party of Ukraine a Wolfsangel or a similar but unrelated symbol named "Idea of a Nation"? This has been the topic of dozens of disputes and edit wars, and I think at this point there should be a real consensus about this.

The resemblance is obvious, and foreign sources like The Telegraph say it's a Wolfsangel. It has also been used as a symbol by unquestionably neo-Nazi groups like Aryan Nations. On the other hand, the Azov brigade itself says it's simply a monogram created by putting the letters I and N together.

Andreas Umland has said the Wolfsangel itself is not considered a fascist symbol in Ukraine. If so, is it still considered distinct from the NI-symbol used by the Azov brigade and such? And if they are considered separate symbols, do they still have the same connotation? Should the Wikipedia articles that include the symbol(s) be changed to reflect this cultural difference? This is not something I know much about, so I decided to ask here before starting an RfC. HansVonStuttgart (talk) 09:13, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

I suggest you discuss specific potentially controversial changes to article text where you intend to make them. Trying to create an official Wiki consensus on a controversial topic could lead to a lot of WP:NOTCHAT and very little progress in building the encyclopedia.  —Michael Z. 16:34, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

By the way, the topic falls under WP:GS/RUSUKR, and non-extended-confirmed users are not permitted to make edits in articles or discussions on it, with a few exceptions.  —Michael Z. 16:37, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

I posted here and not in an article talk because the issue is relevant to several different articles. What do you mean by WP:NOTCHAT, if I may ask? Wikipedia has discussions like this all the time, right?

Anyway, I won't discuss the Wolfsangel thing anymore. Thanks for alerting me to the GS. HansVonStuttgart (talk) 10:57, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

I meant that this could launch a huge, wide-ranging discussion that consumes a lot of energy and generates a lot of heat, but doesn’t necessarily lead directly to any improvement in articles’ text. Already there’s a single comment below that addresses the naming of all similar symbols in the full context of history rather than even in the scope of the articles you mentioned, and gets us no closer to any specific text changes. Even if the scope is several articles, better to quote the text from them that would be affected, than to ask for the extremely broad and open “this WikiProject's opinion on the naming of a symbol.”  —Michael Z. 19:53, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

All reliable sources are calling it Wolfsangel, pointing out obvious WW2 and Nazi connotations, the "Idea of Nation" version emerged much later, and it's accepted basically only by the sources related to Azov Marcelus (talk) 17:23, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Are you implying Andreas Umland is "related to Azov"? Because I'm pretty sure WP:BLP applies to talk pages too. TylerBurden (talk) 23:01, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Post-Soviet transition in Ukraine#Requested move 19 August 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Post-Soviet transition in Ukraine#Requested move 19 August 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. —usernamekiran (talk) 06:51, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:First Battle of Lyman#Requested move 28 August 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:First Battle of Lyman#Requested move 28 August 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:01, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

FoP in Ukraine and the war

I was just thinking that while Russia is trying to destroy Ukrainian culture etc. through military means, we help due to combination of meta:copyright paranoia and bad Ukrainian law (no freedom of panorama). See commons:Category:Ukrainian FOP cases. I know Ukrainian gov't is busy, well, fightign for survival and such, but maybe it is also good time to try to encourage them to change this law so we can help preserve Ukrainian cultural heritage? Is there anyone here who could reach out to Ukranian Wikimedia chapter and suggest this may be time to do this? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:30, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

WM Ukraine is aware of this and, as far as I know, they think it is not possible at the moment. Ymblanter (talk) 12:31, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Wagner Line#Requested move 31 August 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Wagner Line#Requested move 31 August 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ❯❯❯ Raydann^(Talk) 16:25, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Input needed at Talk:Ukrainian language#Little Russian language

There is currently a dispute about whether verifiable references to Ivan Kotliarevsky, Ivan Vahylevych, Pylyp Morachevskyi (and possibly others) calling the language Little Russian before the 1860s should be included in the article, or excluded. Crash48 (talk) 16:46, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Women in Green's 5th Edit-a-thon

Hello WikiProject Ukraine:

WikiProject Women in Green is holding a month-long Good Article Edit-a-thon event in October 2023!

Running from October 1 to 31, 2023, WikiProject Women in Green (WiG) is hosting a Good Article (GA) edit-a-thon event with the theme Around the World in 31 Days! All experience levels welcome. Never worked on a GA project before? We'll teach you how to get started. Or maybe you're an old hand at GAs – we'd love to have you involved! Participants are invited to work on nominating and/or reviewing GA submissions related to women and women's works (e.g., books, films) during the event period. We hope to collectively cover article subjects from at least 31 countries (or broader international articles) by month's end. GA resources and one-on-one support will be provided by experienced GA editors, and participants will have the opportunity to earn a special WiG barnstar for their efforts.

We hope to see you there!

Grnrchst (talk) 13:52, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Ukrainian scientists

Here are some articles from the Ukrainian Wikipedia that might be worth translating if the topics meet English Wikipedia notability standards.

• Ukrainian Nature Conservation Group uk:Ukrainian_Nature_Conservation_Group
• Oleksii Vasyliuk, Ukrainian botanist uk:Василюк Олексій Володимирович
• Ivan Moysiyenko, Ukrainian botanist uk:Мойсієнко Іван Іванович

Eastmain (talk • contribs) 16:38, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Yunokomunarivsk#Requested move 3 October 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Yunokomunarivsk#Requested move 3 October 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. UtherSRG (talk) 15:23, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Zfort

Please help with Zfort Group (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Figbiscuits (talk) 08:13, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Odesa#Requested move 7 October 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Odesa#Requested move 7 October 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 02:12, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Comment The discussion has been snow closed. Rsk6400 (talk) 08:51, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Yaroslav Hunka#Requested move 3 October 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Yaroslav Hunka#Requested move 3 October 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — MaterialWorks 19:53, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Articles for deletion discussions: Hero of the Luhansk / Donetsk People's Republic

Please note that I just started WP:Articles_for_deletion/Hero_of_the_Luhansk_People's_Republic and WP:Articles_for_deletion/Hero_of_the_Donetsk_People's_Republic. Rsk6400 (talk) 12:58, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Kirovske, Donetsk Oblast#Requested move 25 October 2023

There is an ongoing multimove discussion Talk:Kirovske, Donetsk Oblast#Requested move 25 October 2023 regarding decommunized, Russia-occupied settlements in Ukraine that may interest members of this WikiProject. Thank you. HappyWith (talk) 06:17, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

B-checklist in project template

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council § Determining the future of B-class checklists. This project is being notified since it is one of the 82 WikiProjects that opted-in to support B-checklists (B1-B6) in your project banner. DFlhb (talk) 11:56, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Nuclear threats during the Russian invasion of Ukraine#Requested move 16 October 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Nuclear threats during the Russian invasion of Ukraine#Requested move 16 October 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 04:49, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Request for input on categories

Input is needed to close a discussion on deleting and merging a number of categories at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 19#Category:Russian and Soviet emigrants to Albania. Thanks.  —Michael Z. 05:43, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Recategorization request

Would someone be willing to move the content of Category:Northeastern_Ukraine_campaign either to Category:Eastern_Ukraine_offensive or to Category:Northern_Ukraine_campaign, per the outcome of this discussion? Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:39, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:List of urban-type settlements in Ukraine#Requested move 27 October 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:List of urban-type settlements in Ukraine#Requested move 27 October 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Polyamorph (talk) 07:37, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Help interpreting a Ukrainian-language source with a linked document in Russian

Could someone here look at the source https://hromadske.ua/posts/putin-gotuyetsya-zaluchiti-do-vijni-proti-ukrayini-nepovnolitnih-rozvidka now used in Young Army Cadets National Movement about which text better reflects the source?

"Nevertheless, 6 years later, during Russian invasion of Ukraine, the same Minister of Defense commissioned reports on the possibility of recruiting 17-year old Yunarmy youth for the war effort." (The minister in question being Sergei Shoigu.)

Or

"During Russian invasion of Ukraine, Ukrainan Intelligence published an order by the Minister of Defence, which orders evaluation of potential use of Yunarmiya members during SMO after their conscription into the Russian Armed forces." Sjö (talk) 05:56, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

The second option is more accurate. The order says clearly that what needs to be evaluated is their involvement in the "special military operation" after they are drafted ("после их призыва на военную службу в ходе весеннего и летнего призывов 2022 года"). So the point is that it applies to the guys who were 17 at the time this order is published but who would be 18 and thus eligible for the summer draft. Draftees are not supposed to be sent to the war in Ukraine, so the order (if it's real) is about making an exception for draftees belonging to Young Army Cadets National Movement.

This order was purportedly made in February 2022 and published on the GUR's facebook page in March 2022. More than a year has passed since then and if this actually happened, we would know it from reliable sources. If all we have is a facebook post and an article in Hromadske from early 2022, I would re-word it

“ According to Ukrainian military intelligence, in February 2022, the Russian Defence Minister ordered an assessment of the potential use of Yunarmiya members in the war in Ukraine after their conscription into the Russian Armed forces. ”

Alaexis_¿question? 08:06, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Of course, the order itself is a primary source and it's better to use secondary sources that interpret primary sources. However in this case the secondary source (Hromadske) basically copied the post by the Ukrainian Military Intelligence service ([15]), which is a primary source, so no interpretation was performed and I think that we should simply attribute the news as I suggested earlier. Alaexis_¿question? 11:43, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I have changed the text to your suggestion. Maybe a bit of SYNTH to pur that sentence after the one before, but the text is absolutely more neutral. Sjö (talk) 07:19, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Telmanove#Requested move 5 November 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Telmanove#Requested move 5 November 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Polyamorph (talk) 18:51, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Konstantyn H. Kulyk

I've created an article for the former Ukainian prosecutor Konstantyn H. Kulyk. There seem to be a lot of different spellings for his name, in Ukrainian, Russian and English. Could someone familiar with these languages take a look and check that I've got the right versions of these names? — The Anome (talk) 21:21, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Nashi political party's page has missing sources.

The sources for these two claims are incorrect. The sources attached have nothing to do about supporting the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022.

"The party has a pro-Russian stance. It supported the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022."

All 3 attached sources are from before 2020. 2601:5CF:4181:48B0:AD:AD6E:31CB:9D7B (talk) 04:18, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done. Removed the 2nd sentence, see Nashi (political party). Rsk6400 (talk) 07:40, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Dovzhansk Raion into Sverdlovsk Raion

There is a merge proposal ongoing at Talk:Sverdlovsk Raion#Proposed merge of Dovzhansk Raion into Sverdlovsk Raion that may interest editors of this WikiProject. HappyWith (talk) 17:33, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Has the classification "Rural Settlements" been abolished along with "Urban-type Settlements"?

I just learned that Ukraine has recently overhauled their settlement classification scheme, but I can't seem to figure out whether they abolished the classification of "Rural-type Settlement". I've translated a few settlement articles and would like to update them if the classification no longer exists. Also, if they have abolished it, do rural settlements immediately become villages (selos) in January when the law takes effect? Physeters^✉ 05:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I didn't know where to post this question, so I apologize if this is the wrong place. Physeters^✉ 05:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

You would naturally assume that, but it seems that the new law simply ignored the existence of rural-type settlements, since there are very few of them. Legally, they were never called "rural-type", they were called simply "settlements" and generally were smaller than "villages". Only "urban-type settlements" always used an adjective in the name. So it seems that the new law did not affect the rural-type settlements and they would stay as "settlements" even though we basically have a corrupted hierarchy now: city > settlement > village > settlement. Maybe, it will get fixed eventually, or maybe not. Kammerer55 (talk) 06:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

The most sure way to check the status of any settlement would be to check with the official classifier which is a huge excel file listing all administrative units and their types. However, it has not been yet updated since the new law took an effect, so we would need to wait for the update and then see how the ministry deals with this inconsistency. Kammerer55 (talk) 06:26, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying! I'll have to check in on the spreadsheet in January. Physeters^✉ 06:32, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Igor Bondar (of the 2020s)

Igor Bondar (writer),
Igor Bondar (poet).
Hi! As of December 2023, works (or at least "columnist work") are coming out of Kharkiv from Bondar.--In Ukraine, is he considered a poet, first and foremost, or rather a writer?--He seems to be sort of a correspondent (from Kharkiv) in a mid-size newspaper in my country, because his newspaper column gets printed a few times every month.--Trying to find in-depth sources is problematic, in part because there was an Ukrainian journalist (uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ігор_Бондар) Igor Bondar, that was murdered in Odessa in 1999.--Thoughts on how to find sources about the writer/poet and his works?--His work printed in my country (and largely in one newspaper), might barely contribute to possible wiki-notability; however, it is all other stuff that might decide possible wiki-notability. 2001:2020:319:E17D:699C:9BC6:1933:8A02 (talk) 01:59, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

You mentioned "my country". Is it Ukraine or other country? Google search in Ukrainian finds poet Igor/Ihor Bondar-Tereshchenko from Kharkiv (uk:Ігор Бондар-Терещенко). Is that the one? Kammerer55 (talk) 05:27, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Outstanding! I will link the article when I expect to have it done in a few weeks.--(As columnist, his [Letters from the war] "Brev fra krigen" column, is signed by Igor Bondar, although the articles are translated by a local translator.)--I will use the title Igor ..., unless a talk page advises that Ihor ... is how his name should be in English. (Wikidata does not give any clue yet, it seems.)--Thanks a lot! 2001:2020:319:E17D:79B1:ADF4:4412:FC66 (talk) 02:29, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Merge discussion at Talk:Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Merge_discussion

There is a requested merge discussion at Talk:Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Merge_discussion that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Dan the Animator 22:22, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Titles of articles on Ukrainian povits/uezds

I intend to clean up the titles of articles and categories on historical povits (a.k.a. uezds or counties) in Ukraine. This system of subdividing the gubernia (a.k.a. huberniia) was established in the Russian empire (Governorate (Russia)), and then inherited by the Ukrainian People’s Republic and Soviet Ukraine (Administrative divisions of Ukraine (1918–1925)).

The spellings and names are not consistent. There’s no advice in WP:UAPLACE and I can’t find any corresponding guideline for Russian-empire or Soviet place names. A number of these have been moved without discussion to a different pattern (e.g., Bakhmutsky Uyezd was moved to Bakhmut uezd).

I intend to rename all of these to use consistent spelling with the main article uezd, for example Konotopsky Uyezd → Konotopsky Uezd. This is not controversial and I will proceed without waiting for comments (but feel free).

I am also considering the following questions:

1. Do we keep the prevailing capitalization Konotopsky Uezd, or switch to lowercased Konotopsky uezd?
2. Do we keep the prevailing native adjectival proper name, like Konotopsky Uezd, or switch to an anglicized version like Konotop Uezd (after the city of Konotop)?
3. Were any of these established in Ukraine after 1917 and should therefore be renamed, e.g., Konotopsky Uyezd → Konotopskyi Povit/Konotopskyi povit?

Any other concerns? Please comment. —Michael Z. 16:55, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

It makes sense to use "uezd" for consistency with the main article name. Regarding the questions:

1. This probably should be governed by some general English rule. I see that American counties always use the capitalized versions: "Albany County", "Los Angeles County" (also "New York State"). Is it the same in other English-speaking countries?

2. I would prefer Konotopsky Uezd because it's closer to the original name. Otherwise, you actually need to do some original research to identify the center and to transform the name accordingly. And what to do when it's not named after the center, like Dneprovsky Uyezd? (Also, Ushitsa uezd is named after part of the name "Novaya Ushitsa".) Similar examples for other units, like Podolia Governorate and Taurida Governorate frankly sound a bit unnatural to me as a Ukrainian/Russian speaker, and require some extra-thinking to understand what the topic is about.

3. During Russian Empire times the divisions were very stable, but a lot of changes (incl. creations of new units and deletions of old ones) were happening after 1917. I guess most of uezds listed below were created in Russian Empire times, so probably the Russian name "uezd" can be used for the following reasons:

1) for consistency with all other imperial units existing back then;

2) because in all official documents of that time it would be written in Russian (since Ukrainian language was either prohibited or suppressed during that time);

3) since it would be hard to distinguish Ukrainian from non-Ukrainian units, since Ukraine did not have well-defined boundaries back then.

However, if some unit was created in Ukrainian SSR or one of Ukrainian states (after 1917), then probably the term "povit" might be a better fit, since that's how it would appear in many documents (including most of modern historical research focused on post-1917 Ukraine) and it would be clear that the unit indeed belonged to Ukraine. For older Russian Empire units which continued existence in Ukrainian SSR, the redirection from povit to uezd can be also used. Konotopsky Uyezd should not however be renamed into Povit, since it was created long before 1917, so most of its existence was in Russian Empire.

--Kammerer55 (talk) 04:36, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

3. Muscovy and Russian empire reorganized gubernias a number of times.

1) It’s not all consistent, as there are articles about former imperial counties with Estonian, Latvian, and a Lithuanian names, and I think Polish too. Would have to check Georgia, Armenia, Central Asia, &c. Consistency is the lowest-priority naming WP:CRITERION.

2) See WP:OFFICIALNAMES. There is no reason to automatically privilege colonial names and deprecate native local names.

3) Ukrainian ethnolinguistic territory had well defined boundaries, and history books tell us which gubernias or which of their parts were in it. Russia recognized specific Ukrainian boundaries in the 1918 Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. There were specific borders of Soviet Ukraine established soon after, and of course we know what the boundaries of modern Ukraine are.

There is also the assumption that “most of its existence” is true and significant, but “its most recent name” is not, with no rationale for this. In fact, most examples like Beijing, Mumbai, Dnipro, Kyiv, and Odesa indicate the opposite. WP:MODERNPLACENAME privileges most recent names, and local names, unless “a substantial majority of reliable modern sources” do otherwise.

(Ushitsa county was called Ushitskyi/Novoushitskyi povit or Ushitskii/Novoushitskii uezd.)  —Michael Z. 16:16, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

My main concern is that some of the articles, like Konotopsky Uyezd, cite only a Russian-language source. In such case, it would be probably an OR to translate the name into English through Ukrainian, especially since Ukrainian spelling 100 years ago and now might slightly differ. Such articles should have at least one Ukrainian-language source to justify the Ukrainian name, for example, you could probably use 1923 UkrSSR decrees establishing new okruhas and raions to get the correct Ukrainian spellings for the abolished povits. Kammerer55 (talk) 20:57, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

If consistency is not an issue, then you can probably decide on a case by case basis depending on the cited sources. Kammerer55 (talk) 20:58, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Of course, but I’d like to do a mass cleanup first. This conversation is just to see what is acceptable.  —Michael Z. 21:05, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

By the way, uezd was sometimes translated into Ukrainian as "уїзд" (uizd). In any case, all uezds/povits can be considered as colonial units, since they were established either by the Russian imperial, or by the Soviet, or by the Polish administration. The only truly native units pre-1991 were "zemlias" that the UPR tried to establish in 1918, or polks and sotnias in the Cossack Hetmanate times. Kammerer55 (talk) 21:04, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

For modern place names in Ukraine, per WP:UAPLACE we use the anglicized form for oblasts (Donetsk Oblast), raions (Zolochiv Raion), and hromadas (Avhustynivka Rural Council), but we transliterate names of urban districts (Zavodskyi District). This example shows that the lesser-known uezds don’t necessarily have to be named the same way as the larger gubernias. We do seem to capitalize all of the subdivision types when they appear in names, although many academic sources do not.

(By the way, the official Ukrainian Latin-alphabet place names are always transliterated according to the toponymic guidelines: Donetska oblast, Zolochivskyi raion, Avhustynivska rural council, Zavodskyi raion.)  —Michael Z. 18:48, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

2. I agree that transliterating the native name is best. Although Dneprovskii/Dniprovskyi can also be reverse-engineered as Dnieper uezd or Dnipro povit, this would be WP:OR (unless it were based on determining the COMMONNAME for each of these hundreds of little-mentioned places).  —Michael Z. 19:06, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

I second @Kammerer55's point about borders not being clearly defined. Linguistically it's largely a continuum. There are places within the borders of modern Russia whose language is closer to Ukrainian (such as some parts of Voronezh oblast) and vice-versa there are places within the borders of modern Ukraine where Ukrainian has never been the dominant language (e.g, Yaltinsky Uyezd). Alaexis_¿question? 20:16, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

The Historical Dictionary of Ukraine, 2nd ed., ISBN 978-0-8108-7845-7, gives a fairly detailed history of the “Administrative Divisions of Ukraine” (pp. 11–17). Excerpts:

• “At the beginning of the 19th century, there were nine gubernias in Ukraine: Kyiv, Poltava, Chernihiv, Kharkiv, Katerynoslav, Kherson, Tavriia, Podilia, and Volhynia.”
• “The territory of the restored UNR was divided into a Western (Western Province of the UNR) and an Eastern oblast.) The latter consisted of the Kyiv, Kharkiv, Poltava, Chernihiv, Katerynoslav, Kherson, Zhytomyr, Kamianets, and Kholm gubernias.”
• “In the 1920s, the Ukrainian Socialist Soviet Republic (renamed the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1937) was divided into 12 gubernias (nine gubernias after October 1922): Volhynia, Donetsk, Zaporizhia, Katerynoslav, Kyiv, Kremenchuk, Mykolaiv, Odesa, Podilia, Poltava, Kharkiv, and Chernihiv. In the early 1920s, parts of the Chernihiv, Kursk, and Voronezh gubernias, where Ukrainians constituted an absolute majority, were annexed by Russia.”

Please give sources about this “linguistic continuum” theory. Imperial demographers mapped Ukrainian ethnolinguistic territory in good detail after the 1897 census. The Bolsheviks actually put some Ukrainian territory in the RSFSR, and not vice-versa. Please explain how this relates to WP:TITLE or other relevant guidelines.  —Michael Z. 21:24, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Paul Robert Magocsi 1996, A History of Ukraine (ISBN 0-8020-0830-5):

• 307: After 1802, “The largest concentration of Ukrainian inhabitants lived in nine provinces. These included, on the territory of the Hetmanate, the provinces of Chernihiv and Poltava. In former Sloboda Ukraine, an imperial province of the same name was established (although without certain territory in the north and northeast) and in 1835 it was renamed the province of Kharkiv. From the former Zaporizhia, which had become part of New Russia after 1775, the provinces of Katerynoslav and Kherson (including lands between the lower Dnieper and Dniester Rivers acquired between 1774 and 1791 from the Ottoman Empire) were created. Of the old Crimean Khanate, both ethnic peninsula and the lowland coastal region between the lower Dnieper River and the Sea of Azov became the province of Taurida. The lands acquired from Poland in 1793 and 1795 became the provinces of Kiev (including the city and surrounding area formerly within the Hetmanate), Volhynia, and Podolia. Together, Kiev, Volhynia, and Podolia provinces were frequently referred to as the Russian Empire’s Southwester Land (Iugo-zapadnyi krai) and will be referred to henceforth as the Right Bank. ¶ Besides the nine ‘Ukrainian’ provinces, Ukrainians also inhabited areas in immediately adjacent provinces or regions of the Russian Empire. These included, in the east, parts of the Don Cossack and Black Sea Cossack Lands; in the west, parts of the province of Bessarabia (both the coastal region in the south and the region around Khotyn in the north); and in the northwest, the regions around Brest and Chełm.”
• 331: “The Ukrainians, who represented nearly three-quarters of the total population, were by far the numerically largest group living in eight of the nine provinces that made up Dnieper Ukraine.”
• 332: “It was during the nineteenth century, however, that massive immigration of Russians to Dnieper Ukraine took place.”
• 486–87: “The territory of the Ukrainian state recognized at Brest-Litovsk included not only the nine former imperial provinces previously claimed by the Central Rada (Volhynia, Podolia, Kiev, Chernihiv, Poltava, Kharkiv, Kherson, Katerynoslav, and northern Taurida), but also the former province of Kholm and the southern third of Minsk and Grodno provinces, including the city of Brest-Litovsk itself.”

 —Michael Z. 22:07, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Orest Subtelny 2009, Ukraine: A History, 4th ed., ISBN 978-1-4426-4016-0:

• 204: “The process of imposing imperial administrative structures on Ukrainian lands began as early as the 1770s, but it was not until the 1830s that it assumed its final form. At that time, Ukraine was divided into nine provinces (gubernii), which could be subdivided informally into three distinct regions: Left-Bank Ukraine, where Cossack and starshyna traditions were strongest, consisted of Chernihiv, Poltava, and Kharkiv provinces; the recently acquired Right Bank, where Polish nobles still exercised socioeconomic domination over the Ukrainian peasantry and where the towns were populated mainly by Jews, consisted of Kiev, Podilia, and Volhynia provinces; and the newly colonized south, once the domain of the Zaporozhians and the Crimean Khanate, was divided into the provinces of Katerynoslav, Kherson, and Tavria (Crimea). Each of these provinces was further subdivided into counties (povit/uezd), and these were broken down into townships and villages.”
• 350: “But, to the great consternation of the Bolsheviks, the Central Rada announced that it was assuming the highest authority in all nine provinces where Ukrainians were in the majority.”

 —Michael Z. 22:19, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Cossack host article needs improvement.

Hello WikiProject Ukraine, the article Cossack host is listed as high importance for your WikiProject. The article is also one of the oldest unreferenced articles on the site. If anyone would be able to trim/improve/look at the article that would be much appreciated. Tooncool64 (talk) 06:57, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Viktor Kobzystyi - famous baseball player?

Recently some news sources claimed that "A famous Ukrainian basketball player, Viktor Kobzystyi, has been killed in a Russian missile attack on Lviv on 29 December." (CNN and others). Is he the same person as Oleksandr Viktorovich Kobzystyi (no uk wiki interwiki)? If not, does he have a uk wiki article that we could translate? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:17, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

basketball and baseball are two different sports. But the CNN article says the basketball player played twice in the Euros and has become a leading coach... The article is about a 20 year old player in the junior leagues... doubtful it is the same person. The father, who doesnt seem to have an english article [16].. is likely the person mentioned. Spanneraol (talk) 03:45, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Doh, guess I was tired and confused the b-ball games here... _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:45, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:China's peace plan#Requested move 8 January 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:China's peace plan#Requested move 8 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Khmelnytskyi, Ukraine#Requested move 8 January 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Khmelnytskyi, Ukraine#Requested move 8 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:34, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Blahodatne, Amvrosiivka urban hromada, Donetsk Raion, Donetsk Oblast#Requested move 4 January 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Blahodatne, Amvrosiivka urban hromada, Donetsk Raion, Donetsk Oblast#Requested move 4 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Reading Beans (talk) 10:21, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Extra Eyes Please

A new user has been rapidly creating a number of articles with w/o inline citations and performing some odd looking edits like blanking a page they had just created. They are also using random letters for edit summaries. I'm assuming good faith for now, but there is enough that I think a quick look by experienced who are knowledgeable on Ukranian history would be a good idea. Please ping me if any red or yellow flags turn up. Assistance much appreciated. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:42, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

That users articles are a translation from Ukrainian wikipedia mostly. I linked the other languages pages to those created by him. Ceriy (talk) 19:51, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

@Ceriy Thanks. Much appreciated. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:07, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Union of Donbass Volunteers

The Union of Donbass Volunteers article relies largely on cites from InformNapalm which describes itself as a volunteer organization. Is InformNapalm a reliable source regarding Union of Donbass Volunteers? Conversation is underway on the article talk page. Chris Troutman (talk) 22:04, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Reference help

Hi, I've encountered some conflicting information about the ambassadors from Ukraine to Sweden in the late 1910s-early 1920s, would appreciate any help. I've started a discussion at Talk:Embassy of Ukraine, Stockholm#Ukrainian State or Ukrainian People's Republic?. AlexandraAVX (talk) 10:25, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Bombing of Odesa (2022–present)#Requested move 4 March 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Bombing of Odesa (2022–present)#Requested move 4 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:32, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Bombing of Kryvyi Rih (2022–present)#Requested move 4 March 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Bombing of Kryvyi Rih (2022–present)#Requested move 4 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:34, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2022 Zhytomyr attacks#Requested move 4 March 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2022 Zhytomyr attacks#Requested move 4 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:34, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Aleksandr Bogomolets#Requested move 6 March 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Aleksandr Bogomolets#Requested move 6 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Killarnee (talk) 22:37, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

The role of Belarus in the Russo-Ukrainian War since 24 February 2022

Hello, I invite you, Ukrainians, to express your opinion in a recently started WP:RFC (see it directly here: Talk:Russo-Ukrainian War#RFC on Listing of Belarus) about the role of Belarus in the Russo-Ukrainian War since 24 February 2022 and how it should be described in this article. By knowing how devastating and painful this war is for you, Ukrainians, I simply had to inform WikiProject Ukraine because your opinions are crucial in topics related with this war. Stay strong! -- Pofka (talk) 20:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Art critic, poet, writer

Igor Bondar, (Ігор Бондар-Терещенко). There is an article about him at Ukrainian wiki. (And an article (stub) that I translated to English, is now at Simple-English wikipedia (https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Bondar), and being discussed at Articles for Deletion, there.)--Does the information in the Ukrainian article, state wiki-notability in a way that could seem relevant for an English-wiki article? Regards! 2001:2020:345:BB19:4066:C097:7078:B2FA (talk) 16:30, 27 March 2024 (UTC)